View Full Version : Mooning the Cog Railway on Mt. Washington
Oh so some that work on the train also have fun with the mooners? Pedophile enablers!
First off, thanks cogman for taking part in this discussion. Second, I understand you in regards to the coal throwing comment. You never advocated that.
Cops on the trains seems like a total waste to me. Round trip ride to maybe at best see a hiker or two show the moon? Sounds like a waste to me. Maybe the local people are more upset about this than I imagined. Mt. Washington is most certainly a mountain. Seems to me there might be a molehill taking its place here.
Sorry if I made this sound bigger than it is. I came across this forum during a search for old Cog photos. I was so guilty of not even owning a camera during the 70's and 80's when I was there fulltime almost every summer. I often find cool pics of myself and my freinds I didn't know existed. In any case, I found this forum and couldn't help voicing my opinion. The trains will continue (well, hopefully) to climb the mountain regardless of the mooners. People will react differently, but mooning is not the biggest issue to the mountain or the railway. Nice chatting with you guys.
Sorry if I made this sound bigger than it is. I came across this forum during a search for old Cog photos. I was so guilty of not even owning a camera during the 70's and 80's when I was there fulltime almost every summer. I often find cool pics of myself and my freinds I didn't know existed. In any case, I found this forum and couldn't help voicing my opinion. The trains will continue (well, hopefully) to climb the mountain regardless of the mooners. People will react differently, but mooning is not the biggest issue to the mountain or the railway. Nice chatting with you guys.You are a stand up fella, cogman. I respect your contributions here. I encourage you to continue to post. By the way, Old Fhart has some awesome photos in his gallery. He used to work up on the Rockpile.:sun
saimyoji
09-21-2006, 22:45
Hey cogman: If I ever do a thru I promise I won't moon you. :cool:
In the meantime:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c335/ibeirene21/mooner.jpg
:banana:banana
The Old Fhart
09-21-2006, 22:48
Cogman, Please keep posting whenever you can give us another side of issues involving Mt. Washington, or any subject for that matter.
I was on the summit during the summer a few years ago to repair a piece of equipment when a Cog engineer asked me if I could show Him and his son the inside of the Observatory. I was more than happy to do that and gave them the grand tour that most people don't get. There are those of us that understand and respect your position and the complex history of the mountain.
Internegator
09-21-2006, 23:01
Nice chatting with you guys.
Nice chatting with you too!
(_|_)
(_|_)
(_|_)
:D :D :D
saimyoji
09-21-2006, 23:06
Cogman, Please keep posting whenever you can give us another side of issues involving Mt. Washington, or any subject for that matter.
I was on the summit during the summer a few years ago to repair a piece of equipment when a Cog engineer asked me if I could show Him and his son the inside of the Observatory. I was more than happy to do that and gave them the grand tour that most people don't get. There are those of us that understand and respect your position and the complex history of the mountain.
Yep. Keep us informed so we ALL can learn from your years of experience and first hand knowledge. :cool:
lucky luke
09-23-2006, 09:17
I was up there twice last summer. There's an incredible amount of coal on the ground near the tracks. And all that black smoke. I've never mooned it, though.
high debw,
if you had you´ld know that all this coal from the machinist trying to hit hikers that moon him....:welcome
greets
lucky luke
high debw,
if you had you´ld know that all this coal from the machinist trying to hit hikers that moon him....:welcome
greets
lucky luke
Hand firing a 17th century locomotive is sloppy. The owners are trying to convert to oil burners which pollute more but look better and are politically correct. Our only hope is that they sell the place to someone who cares about it and about the history of it.
I'm not a expert in this area and burning fossil fuels does pollute but the black is carbon and unburnt coal which falls to the ground. Most pollutents such as sulphur are invisible. Don't judge by what you see and don't destroy a piece of history while power plants in the midwest burn hundreds of times the coal as the cog does in a year in a day. As always, please educate yourselves before you judge. Educate educate educate and stop pre-judging something you know nothing about!
high debw,
if you had you´ld know that all this coal from the machinist trying to hit hikers that moon him....:welcome
greets
lucky luke
Debw,
I will be running the train over Columbus day weekend. Care to ride in the cab and shovel some coal? We promise to go easy on you. We might even let you blow the whistle if you're good.
Hand firing a 17th century locomotive is sloppy. The owners are trying to convert to oil burners which pollute more but look better and are politically correct. Our only hope is that they sell the place to someone who cares about it and about the history of it.
I'm not a expert in this area and burning fossil fuels does pollute but the black is carbon and unburnt coal which falls to the ground. Most pollutents such as sulphur are invisible. Don't judge by what you see and don't destroy a piece of history while power plants in the midwest burn hundreds of times the coal as the cog does in a year in a day. As always, please educate yourselves before you judge. Educate educate educate and stop pre-judging something you know nothing about!
Oops, not 17th century. Not sure when the first steam loco was built but the cog was built in 1869 (19th century).
Jack Tarlin
09-25-2006, 16:16
The first steam locomotive (invented by Richard Trevithick) appeared in Wales in 1804; the first fully practical steam locomtive engine was invented by George Stephenson ten years later; the first American steam locomotive was probably the Tom Thumb, invented by Peter Cooper, in 1830.
Hikerhead
09-25-2006, 21:45
Debw,
I will be running the train over Columbus day weekend. Care to ride in the cab and shovel some coal? We promise to go easy on you. We might even let you blow the whistle if you're good.
Do it Deb! That would be cool:banana
The first steam locomotive (invented by Richard Trevithick) appeared in Wales in 1804; the first fully practical steam locomtive engine was invented by George Stephenson ten years later; the first American steam locomotive was probably the Tom Thumb, invented by Peter Cooper, in 1830.
Thanks for the info.
trailale
09-26-2006, 20:23
Hey Cogman, Maybe you can convince your riders to moon the hikers? Maybe even start a new tradition.
Hey Cogman, Maybe you can convince your riders to moon the hikers? Maybe even start a new tradition.
They're too busy taking pictures I think.
joedannajr
10-16-2006, 08:07
Just a brief reply to Jack.
I agree with what you say about the Mount Washington Cog but also being a RailFan I appreciate the engineering feat that this Railroad is.
Joe in Hanover
I wonder how many mooners actually hate the thing. I don't. I kind of doubt most thruhikers are thinking of it like that. The tradition is more about the mooning than the train. Perhaps ther's some symbolic psychology going on as well since the train represents mechanized society and hiking is sort of a criticism of that society for many. Mabye...?
I wonder how many mooners actually hate the thing. I don't. I kind of doubt most thruhikers are thinking of it like that. The tradition is more about the mooning than the train. ....................... Mabye...?
...that & its great to get that THICK, BLACK SMOKEY SOOT all over your ass!:D
Lone Wolf
09-02-2007, 08:17
i read on another site that NH State police are riding the cog to catch and arrest/fine hikers mooning the cog. 3 have been caught this year.
superman
09-02-2007, 09:24
In 2000, I enjoyed being Bernie’s photographer when he mooned the cog train. The train happened to be coming up as we approached the tracks. Bernie said get a picture of this as he ran over nearer to the tracks. I had to use my zoom lense to get the magic moment. There was some yelling back and forth with hand gestures included between Bernie and the train crew. Bernie dropped his pants and was almost hit with a lump of coal. I'm sure that Bernie still has the lump of coal and I still have the picture. I don't think Bernie ever got the picture.
Pat from Maine and I have gone to The Mount Washington Hotel many times since our thru hike. We sit out on the back porch and have tea or a hot chocolate while we reminisce about hiking across the Presidentials. The cog railway may not be environmentally friendly but it is a part of a whole lot of people’s fond memories of the Mt Washington area.
I would moon it, and then steal some coal for my Kelly Kettle.
Lone Wolf
09-02-2007, 09:42
i would like to hide behind a rock and shoot the hikers in the ass with a pellet gun
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-02-2007, 09:46
i would like to hide behind a rock and shoot the hikers in the ass with a pellet gun::: Dino sees a new target for her toothy obsession :::
Lone Wolf
09-04-2007, 10:52
5 hikers, according to a hiker on another site, got tickets for mooning the cog yesterday. :D
I would still try and steal some coal, then moon the cog.
Nothing ventured. Nothing gained.
superman
09-04-2007, 11:07
5 hikers, according to a hiker on another site, got tickets for mooning the cog yesterday. :D
Were they identified by their butts? Did they do a butt line up? Did they finger print them or butt print them? :)
Lone Wolf
09-04-2007, 11:10
Were they identified by their butts? Did they do a butt line up? Did they finger print them or butt print them? :)
the hiker said he and 4 others were ticketed. they were too scared to run probably
Were they identified by their butts? Did they do a butt line up? Did they finger print them or butt print them? :)Perhaps they put them to work on a chain gang busting piles of rocks, :-?
or just busting piles. :eek:
Jan LiteShoe
09-04-2007, 11:15
5 hikers, according to a hiker on another site, got tickets for mooning the cog yesterday. :D
This new "wrinkle" will add spice to the venture.
:)
The Weasel
09-04-2007, 11:26
Interesting that they were ticketed. If they're doing it as part of the tradition, well, there's the 'if you can't do the time, ...." line. But if someone was doing it as an actual protest against the cog rail, it might be fun to defend a case like that on 1st Amendment grounds. Dang. Wish I was a little closer.
The Weasel
Jack Tarlin
09-04-2007, 11:32
Um, Counselor:
Please tell us where in the First Amendment one is granted the right to bare one's nether regions or private parts in front of others.
I'm not sure this is what the Founding Fathers had in mind back in 1787, but maybe Weasel knows different.
How this could possibly become a First Amendment issue completely escapes me.
Lone Wolf
09-04-2007, 11:37
So I guess the much touted "Endangered Services" campaign and representing the "hiker community" in an adult fashion really means nothing. Showing your nasty genitals to kids is cool I guess.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-04-2007, 11:39
Interesting idea that mooning the railroad could be considered a form of protest. Anyone know what the tickets were issued for specifically? indecent exposure? Creating a nuisance? Disorderly conduct? If it was anything except indecent exposure the hikers might have a first amendment case....
The Weasel
09-04-2007, 11:44
Interesting idea that mooning the railroad could be considered a form of protest. Anyone know what the tickets were issued for specifically? indecent exposure? Creating a nuisance? Disorderly conduct? If it was anything except indecent exposure the hikers might have a first amendment case....
Just as "giving the finger" can have both political and non-political uses, "mooning" could be considered - yeah, it's true, folks - "non-verbal speech" as a form of protest. In other words, if one is mooning just to be "cool", it's indecent exposure. If, on the other hand, it's intended (I'd want some other extrinsic evidence of the purpose) as a "this is what I think of the cog railway, a terrible polluter," it's very possibly covered.
Honest.
The Weasel
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-04-2007, 11:49
Weasel, are you saying that violating a law to protest negates the law? This would appear not to be prudent as an abortion protester who injured the staff of an abortion clinic could use a similar defense.
Jack Tarlin
09-04-2007, 11:53
So Weasel thinks mooning the cog is "possibly covered."
Nah. It's being deliberately uncovered.
One might not like Starbucks or McDonalds for various reasons, but if you spray-paint their windows or break them, this kind of behavior ain't "covered" either, nor should it be.
I don't think this would work, Weasel.
The Weasel
09-04-2007, 12:03
Weasel, are you saying that violating a law to protest negates the law? This would appear to be prudent as an abortion protester who injured the staff of an abortion clinic could use a similar defense.
Actually, it's not violating the law if there is an acquittal. And Jack's point is very different, since painting a wall involves destruction/damage to property.
But if one is on public land - the AT qualifies - and one is making a political statement, including by conduct, even obscense or indecent gestures that are a part of expressing an opinion ("Cog RR is dirty" to say it in brief) would definitely be "protected" First Amendment speech.
Now if I was defending it, it would be a lot easier if the "protester" was sincere, with evidence from others, and that there was some other extrinsic showing that the action - mooning - was part of a protest. In other words, must "mooning" without more would not be easy to show as a protest. But, for instance, if there was a sign ("Cog RR is dirty"), or prior notice to the RR or the general public ("11 AM on Sep 5 there will be a 'mooning' protest of the Dirty Cog RR for its horrible pollution"). But if I had a sincere client who said, "Yeah, I didn't do it just to be stupid, I didn't it because I hate what it does to the environment," I'd take a shot at it.
The Weasel
saimyoji
09-04-2007, 12:05
Actually, it's not violating the law if there is an acquittal. And Jack's point is very different, since painting a wall involves destruction/damage to property.
But if one is on public land - the AT qualifies - and one is making a political statement, including by conduct, even obscense or indecent gestures that are a part of expressing an opinion ("Cog RR is dirty" to say it in brief) would definitely be "protected" First Amendment speech.
Now if I was defending it, it would be a lot easier if the "protester" was sincere, with evidence from others, and that there was some other extrinsic showing that the action - mooning - was part of a protest. In other words, must "mooning" without more would not be easy to show as a protest. But, for instance, if there was a sign ("Cog RR is dirty"), or prior notice to the RR or the general public ("11 AM on Sep 5 there will be a 'mooning' protest of the Dirty Cog RR for its horrible pollution"). But if I had a sincere client who said, "Yeah, I didn't do it just to be stupid, I didn't it because I hate what it does to the environment," I'd take a shot at it.
The Weasel
So, "Cog RR is a dirty polluter." Painted on their derier would be okay?
The Weasel
09-04-2007, 12:07
Weasel, are you saying that violating a law to protest negates the law? This would appear not to be prudent as an abortion protester who injured the staff of an abortion clinic could use a similar defense.
FD: There are many times when it isn't a "violation of a law" to violate it, using the First Amendment as a defense. This is known as "unconstitutional in application," i.e. a law might be generally valid, but in a particular instance, unconstitutional. Think Selma or Birmingham, Alabama, and laws limiting parades in the Civil Rights day. The laws - requiring permits - might be proper, but not as applied to prevent a civil rights march entirely.
The Weasel
The Weasel
09-04-2007, 12:08
So, "Cog RR is a dirty polluter." Painted on their derier would be okay?
Actually, it might. Abbie Hoffman would do it. Julius Hoffman would convict him. It might well be reversed.
The Weasel
So Weasel thinks mooning the cog is "possibly covered."
Nah. It's being deliberately uncovered.
More to the point, in my humble opinion, covering yourself in this way would negate the spirit of the act. But I suppose that depends on your intentions. I'll bet a few of the founding fathers pulled a few full moons in their day, or something similar.
From Wikipedia, with respect to Mooning and the Constitution:
In 2006, a Maryland USA court of appeal determined that mooning is a form of expression protected by the United States constitutional right of freedom of speech.[4] The court ruled that indecent exposure only relates to exposure of the genitals, adding that even though mooning was a "disgusting" and "demeaning" act to engage in, and had in addition taken place in the presence of a minor,
"[I]f exposure of half of the buttocks constituted indecent exposure, any woman wearing a thong at the beach at Ocean City would be guilty."
Defense attorneys had cited a 1983 case of a woman who was arrested after protesting in front of the U.S. Supreme Court wearing nothing but a cardboard sign that covered the front of her body. In that case, the Washington D.C. Court of Appeals had ruled that indecent exposure is limited to a person's genitals. No review of the case by a higher body, such as a Supreme Court took place, since the States Attorney dropped the prosecution after the ruling.
Also, with respect to Mooning and Trains:
The Annual Mooning of Amtrak is a long-running annual tradition in Laguna Niguel, (Orange County) California, U.S.A, where many people spend all day mooning at Amtrak trains; some even ride the trains on that day just so they can witness the event. This mooning has spawned a chain of "train moonings" throughout the entire country. [8]
Also, with respect to Mooning on the Atlantic Coastline:
The Etchemin tribe of Maine were noted for this custom by a number of early explorers of the Atlantic coastline.[6]
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-04-2007, 12:23
Sounds like it could be protected by the first amendment as long as you mooned in such a way as nt to expose the genitals......
The Weasel
09-04-2007, 12:23
I"m aware of the Laguna Niguel mooning tradition. It's tolerated, and I don't think it's been court tested, but it's not political in nature.
The Weasel
The Weasel
09-04-2007, 12:24
Sounds like it could be protected by the first amendment as long as you mooned in such a way as nt to expose the genitals......
Well, that gets harder, but even a protest that shows genitalia could well be 'protected' speech.
The Weasel
Regarding Mooning, and the Founding Fathers.
"To disarm the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them..."
- George Mason :banana
I might be guilty of some mispelling on this one:
"Posterior, you will never know how much it cost the present generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in heaven that ever I took half the pains to preserve it."
- John Adams :banana
Finally, may your aim be true:
"Little more can be aimed at with respect to the people at large than to have them properly armed and equipped."
- Alexander Hamilton :banana
superman
09-04-2007, 12:45
What I'm hearing in this thread is that people don't know how to do a proper moon any more. Mooning used to not include showing any genitals or any other real private stuff. It only included the showing of butt cheeks. Showing any or all of your stuff is something different. Bernie did a proper moon of the cog railway when I took his picture. Up in Alaska a whole town comes out to moon the train and it's all just good fun.
Well said. The litmus test for such exposure is whether mother and daughters are willing to laugh with you, or scream in horror, or perhaps if it's really cold, laugh at you.
Crazy Legs
09-04-2007, 14:02
I'm confused... are we now mooning RV's with fat tourist heading to Gatlinburg?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-04-2007, 14:03
::: Dino writes letter of protest to COG and sends copy to The Weasel :::
ChinMusic
09-04-2007, 14:08
This fits the profile.....
From WB's "favorite" thru-hiker:
"We took our leave and headed up the big momma. In the minds of many hikers there is something terribly wrong with humping up to the top of the highest mountain on the northern AT only to be greeted by a trainload of rotund buns and their passel of children. The Cog Railway (see photo) chugs and belches thick, black, coal-fired, smoke in it's quest for the grand peak. Mount Washington is the most crowded summit on the entire AT.
I had no choice in the matter, it was providence, it was tradition, it was at the urging of Hangman that made me do it.
As I mooned the lot of them, both coming up the mountain and going down again, the conductor threw lumps of coal at my ass. The cars were full of passengers and as I glanced over my naked derriere I saw them crowding the windows in a scrambled effort to take my picture. You must see the photo Hangman took, my ass plainly visible and everyone in the cab windows with cameras in hand...it is a classic. And just to be certain that I made the family vacation album I spread my cheeks wide, exposing the one eyed monster, the sphincter ringter, the brown round, the...well you get the picture."
Gray Blazer
09-04-2007, 14:09
Now if I was defending it, it would be a lot easier if the "protester" was sincere,
But if I had a sincere client who said, "Yeah, I didn't do it just to be stupid, I didn't it because I hate what it does to the environment," I'd take a shot at it.
The Weasel
Yeah, sincerity. If you can fake that you've got it made.:banana
The Weasel
09-04-2007, 14:17
::: Dino writes letter of protest to COG and sends copy to The Weasel :::
:::Weasel starts preparing retainer agreement, to be signed after Dino liquidates all assets into nonconsecutive unmarked five and ten dollar bills:::
The Weasel
09-04-2007, 14:25
Yeah, sincerity. If you can fake that you've got it made.:banana
Client with fake sincerity isn't going to win. But I'm cool with just total insanity...as I say, if I had Jerry Rubin as a client.......ah, me. And where is Ken Kesey now that I could really use him? Faking his own death again? C'mon, Ken....this'll be fun!)
The Weasel
This fits the profile.....
From WB's "favorite" thru-hiker:
"We took our leave and headed up the big momma. In the minds of many hikers there is something terribly wrong with humping up to the top of the highest mountain on the northern AT only to be greeted by a trainload of rotund buns and their passel of children. The Cog Railway (see photo) chugs and belches thick, black, coal-fired, smoke in it's quest for the grand peak. Mount Washington is the most crowded summit on the entire AT.
I had no choice in the matter, it was providence, it was tradition, it was at the urging of Hangman that made me do it.
As I mooned the lot of them, both coming up the mountain and going down again, the conductor threw lumps of coal at my ass. The cars were full of passengers and as I glanced over my naked derriere I saw them crowding the windows in a scrambled effort to take my picture. You must see the photo Hangman took, my ass plainly visible and everyone in the cab windows with cameras in hand...it is a classic. And just to be certain that I made the family vacation album I spread my cheeks wide, exposing the one eyed monster, the sphincter ringter, the brown round, the...well you get the picture."Poetic licence. Seriously. Not just freedom of expression, but in the Gator Gump's case, artistic expression. I thought this bit was particularly brilliant for a man, like all poets, so smitten with the death wish:
"It was the urging of [the] Hangman that made me do it."
I brings forth images of the Savage Man from Brave New World.
What enlightened jury of peers could possibly convict the man?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-04-2007, 14:57
:::Weasel starts preparing retainer agreement, to be signed after Dino liquidates all assets into nonconsecutive unmarked five and ten dollar bills:::::: Dino puts all assets in trust so no Weasel can touch them :D :::
sloopjonboswell
09-04-2007, 15:56
i saw the ticket yesterday, violation: "indecent exposure-(buttocks)", the fines were $125 each, a park ranger and a state patrolman jumped off the train and issued the tickets to five northbounders.
Lone Wolf
09-04-2007, 15:58
i saw the ticket yesterday, violation: "indecent exposure-(buttocks)", the fines were $125 each, a park ranger and a state patrolman jumped off the train and issued the tickets to five northbounders.
poor kids. they won't be able to stay in hostels the rest of the way or drink fufu beer. that'll teach em' to be sheeple
i saw the ticket yesterday, violation: "indecent exposure-(buttocks)", the fines were $125 each, a park ranger and a state patrolman jumped off the train and issued the tickets to five northbounders.
You would think that the state trooper and state park ranger both had better things to do.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-04-2007, 18:11
poor kids. they won't be able to stay in hostels the rest of the way or drink fufu beer. that'll teach em' to be sheepleNow, LW, it's not like they took a dump for the train's passengers and left it for the COG staff to clean up.
Jim Adams
09-04-2007, 18:24
You would think that the state trooper and state park ranger both had better things to do.
:banana :banana :banana NEWS FLASH! Police miss 200lb. marijuana deal in train station.
5 MOONERS BUSTED!
geek
The Old Fhart
09-04-2007, 19:00
Whether mooning the Cog is legal or not (it's not) is really a secondary issue. The main issue is how we want people to view the thru hiking community. There is no one here who seriously believes that this is some form of civil disobedience or First Amendment right. This is just rationalization for juvenile behavior that is offensive to many. The test of whether you should do it or not is to ask yourself the question of whether you’d do this to your mother or your kids and brag about it.
ALDHA has been trying to improve the image of thru hikers with their Endangered Services Campaign. That campaign will never succeed if the only image many people have of thru hikers is someone’s butt in their face. Grow up and do the right thing.
Lone Wolf
09-04-2007, 19:05
Whether mooning the Cog is legal or not (it's not) is really a secondary issue. The main issue is how we want people to view the thru hiking community. There is no one here who seriously believes that this is some form of civil disobedience or First Amendment right. This is just rationalization for juvenile behavior that is offensive to many. The test of whether you should do it or not is to ask yourself the question of whether you’d do this to your mother or your kids and brag about it.
ALDHA has been trying to improve the image of thru hikers with their Endangered Services Campaign. That campaign will never succeed if the only image many people have of thru hikers is someone’s butt in their face. Grow up and do the right thing.
no s chitt! the voice of reason
Bravo, TOF, bravo! I agree wholeheartedly.
The problem, however, is those who show their pimply asses to trainloads of young families lack the maturity to understand your rationale.
Whether mooning the Cog is legal or not (it's not) is really a secondary issue. The main issue is how we want people to view the thru hiking community. There is no one here who seriously believes that this is some form of civil disobedience or First Amendment right. This is just rationalization for juvenile behavior that is offensive to many. The test of whether you should do it or not is to ask yourself the question of whether you’d do this to your mother or your kids and brag about it.
ALDHA has been trying to improve the image of thru hikers with their Endangered Services Campaign. That campaign will never succeed if the only image many people have of thru hikers is someone’s butt in their face. Grow up and do the right thing.I say vote with your buttocks.
Bravo, TOF, bravo! I agree wholeheartedly.
The problem, however, is those who show their pimply asses to trainloads of young families lack the maturity to understand your rationale.If my daughter was with me on the thru-hike, I'm sure she would moon right along with me. It's a free world. There are occassions when we need to lighten it up. I wouldn't do it as a political statement though. I don't believe in exposing young minds to the dirty world of politics.
Lone Wolf
09-04-2007, 20:42
These hikers have a choice of fines. $125 comes with a permanent record for nudity on gov. property or $175 and the record to be purged in the future. what i read anyway.
Lone Wolf
09-04-2007, 20:43
If my daughter was with me on the thru-hike, I'm sure she would moon right along with me. It's a free world. There are occassions when we need to lighten it up. I wouldn't do it as a political statement though. I don't believe in exposing young minds to the dirty world of politics.
would you get pissed if a bunch of hikers ogled and make sexual comments about her ass?
I would suggest to you that the majority within that group of hikers would kick the others ass for me. Or all you all a bunch of perverts as well as prudes? I don't think so. So let's not make up hypothetical situations about my daughter's ass.
She is only seven. Perhaps you didn't know that.
Lone Wolf
09-04-2007, 20:51
I would suggest to you that the majority within that group of hikers would kick the others ass for me. Or all you all a bunch of perverts as well as prudes? I don't think so. So let's not make up hypothetical situations about my daughter's ass.
you brought it up hoss. a good dad ain't gonna let his daughter expose her privates in front of him or strangers.
Lone Wolf
09-04-2007, 20:52
She is only seven. Perhaps you didn't know that.
no. 7, 17, or 27. it's wrong
Well clearly there is a cultural divide. I will try and keep that in mind.
But up here my daughter can moon whoever she damn well feels like at her age.
you brought it up hoss. a good dad ain't gonna let his daughter expose her privates in front of him or strangers.Again. Clearly there is a cultural divide. So shut the **** up.
Lone Wolf
09-04-2007, 21:04
Again. Clearly there is a cultural divide. So shut the **** up.
nope. it's wrong. be a good dad
I used to think that the mooning thing was funny until I realized that there are also children ridding as passengers on the cog railway. Suddenly it didn't seem right to moon them.
Panzer
nope. it's wrong. be a good dadYour way over the ****ing top on this one Wolf.
Moderators, do us all a favour and delete my posts from 318 on.
Wolf should probably do the same.
What you do about the Wolf's posts I really don't give a damn.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-04-2007, 21:12
Given the fact that children are involved. I won't be shaking the dino tail at the COG. If it were all adults, I would consider it fun, but children are too young to understand the absurdity of hikers mooning a train. Many passengers consider being mooned by hikers part of the scenery. YMMV.
(Dino thanks God she is not a mod in this forum :D)
Lone Wolf
09-04-2007, 21:14
Your way over the ****ing top on this one Wolf.
Moderators, do us all a favour and delete my posts from 318 on.
Wolf should probably do the same.
i've said nothing wrong. you need to teach your children there are consequences for doing things illegal. mooning is not "cool". maybe in canada.
Just a Hiker
09-04-2007, 21:19
Hey all. It's always foggy when I get to that part of the climb up Washington, so no one would see my hairy azz anyway. Probably just as well for all concerned...
Just Jim
Lone Wolf
09-04-2007, 21:20
i've said nothing wrong. you need to teach your children there are consequences for doing things illegal. mooning is not "cool". maybe in canada.
IF i had a daughter, i would NEVER say pulling her pants down and showing her backside to tourists was a cool thing to do just because others do it for no good reason. your culture is different of course. :rolleyes: get weasel to defend y'all.
The Old Fhart
09-04-2007, 21:25
JAK-"Well clearly there is a cultural divide."...and you're on the side without culture.:D
IF i had a daughter, i would NEVER say pulling her pants down and showing her backside to tourists was a cool thing to do just because others do it for no good reason. your culture is different of course. :rolleyes: get weasel to defend y'all.LOOK. MY POST STARTED OFF QUITE INNOCENT. I HAD NO IDEA YOU WERE SUCH A ****ING PERVERT. NOW SHUT THE **** UP. HOPEFULLY SOME MODERATOR WILL DO THE RIGHT THING AND DELETE ALL THESE ******* POSTS. I"VE LEARNED MY LESSON. OUT.
Lone Wolf
09-04-2007, 21:28
Your way over the ****ing top on this one Wolf.
Moderators, do us all a favour and delete my posts from 318 on.
i'm way under the top and if you'd like to delete your assinine posts, donate some $$ and you can do it yourself. if i'd done that long ago i'd only have a coupla hundred posts. :cool:
Don't stress over it JAK. It's just lone wolf. If you ignore him he'll get bored and move on to someone else.
.
.
.
Eventually.
Jim Adams
09-04-2007, 21:36
Bravo, TOF, bravo! I agree wholeheartedly.
The problem, however, is those who show their pimply asses to trainloads of young families lack the maturity to understand your rationale.:rolleyes:
Since a bare buttocks can be viewed on TV almost any night of the week during prime time, it is obviously not indecent.
My mother, when she was still alive was voted employee of the year twice at a 700+ employee corporation and was a respected member of the community.
My son is respected in our community and has organized several community outtings.
My daughter is a retail manager and is currently in training to become a State Trooper.
I am proud of all of them and feel as though I had a very good and proper unbringing. I have laughed with them all. I have cried with them all. I have lived to the fullest with them all. AND I HAVE MOONED OTHER PEOPLE WITH THEM ALL!
The problem isn't that others can't understand your rationale...the problem is that this country has become so "politically correct" that some of you have lost your sense of humor.
If you don't want to see mooning, do what you do with your TV...don't watch it BUT DON'T TRY TO TELL ME WHAT I CAN AND CANNOT SEE!:mad:
GEEK
Lone Wolf
09-04-2007, 21:37
Don't stress over it JAK. It's just lone wolf. If you ignore him he'll get bored and move on to someone else.
.
.
.
Eventually.
but lone wolf is right. mooning is wrong. jakie needs to teach his kids that. when they reach 18 they can choose to moon or not. pretty simple. not pickin on jak. and yes jak, put me on IGNORE
but lone wolf is right. mooning is wrong. jakie needs to teach his kids that.
JAK needs to teach his kids whatever he feels he needs to teach them.
I used to think that the mooning thing was funny until I realized that there are also children ridding as passengers on the cog railway. Suddenly it didn't seem right to moon them.
PanzerSounds reasonable to me. What's the big deal with recognizing this?:-?
Lone Wolf
09-04-2007, 21:48
JAK needs to teach his kids whatever he feels he needs to teach them.
sometimes parents suck as teachers
sometimes parents suck as teachers
Yep, but they're the parents. A fact that most teachers come to hate.;)
The Weasel
09-04-2007, 22:51
::: Dino puts all assets in trust so no Weasel can touch them :D :::
:::Weasel suddenly remembering Dino said "The protest is a fraud" and wondering how much geld to peel out of Dino to bail her/him/it out after Weasel finks (accidentally) on its/her/his cute little butt to NH fuzz:::
superman
09-04-2007, 22:55
Well, Pat from Maine and I have debated this thread tonight. Her position is simple...it's wrong. She says since you can't make public policy that can accommodate people who expose themselves and those who don't it has to be decided against mooning. I had been looking at it as harmless fun for some people but apparently, since some folks do mooning to shock and embarrass others by exposing their privates it shouldn't be allowed. If everyone mooned as Bernie had, it would be a non-issue but that's not the way today’s world works. So I change my position and recognize that mooning the train is not a harmless tradition.
... So I change my position and recognize that mooning the train is not a harmless tradition.
Yea, I think a lot of people have changed their minds after reading this far through the thread.
Panzer
Skidsteer
09-05-2007, 00:03
Yea, I think a lot of people have changed their minds after reading this far through the thread.
Panzer
That, or they'll paint their ass blue and move to Kentucky.
The Weasel
09-05-2007, 00:34
Well, Pat from Maine and I have debated this thread tonight. Her position is simple...it's wrong. She says since you can't make public policy that can accommodate people who expose themselves and those who don't it has to be decided against mooning. I had been looking at it as harmless fun for some people but apparently, since some folks do mooning to shock and embarrass others by exposing their privates it shouldn't be allowed. If everyone mooned as Bernie had, it would be a non-issue but that's not the way today’s world works. So I change my position and recognize that mooning the train is not a harmless tradition.
And who is harmed?
Public policy is often made that doesn't accommodate both sides of an issue; some things can't be compromised, no matter how hard one tries. And some things offend one side deeply, yet that does not prevent the other side from prevailing, and justly so. An example - rather more extreme than this, but a good example nevertheless - is that most Americans (and by that I think I could safely say that I'm referring to well past 99%) abhor the so-called American National Socialisty Party (or whatever name they use today), or "Nazis". Yet our First Amendment gives them the right to parade and demonstrate and spew their disgusting beliefs. And rightly so.
So I ask again, "Who is harmed?" Is public decency in New Hampshire offended by the sight of a man's or woman's buttocks? Is, for that matter, much more seen at the Cog Railroad than is seen at Hampton State Beach?
Many things in the US are permitted that are in what many of us think is, at best, bad taste. This may be one. But to say that it must be forbidden because others cannot accept it on any terms is not right.
Perhaps this is a trivial issue. But I don't think so, and I think it differs from other public nudity concerns that many - including me - have about the AT. So if someone feels the need, well...I think New Hampshire can find a way to tolerate this.
The Weasel
Bravo, TOF, bravo! I agree wholeheartedly.
The problem, however, is those who show their pimply asses to trainloads of young families lack the maturity to understand your rationale.
~
If you don't want to see mooning, do what you do with your TV...don't watch it BUT DON'T TRY TO TELL ME WHAT I CAN AND CANNOT SEE!:mad:
GEEK
Geek, you seem very intent on viewing bare asses. I'm certain you can find hikers who'd be happy to oblige. But know that in NH, public nudity is illegal, and has consequences.
But even if it wasn't illegal, Geek, such behavior when directed at families with young children, just isn't cool.
Thanks for taking the time for responding to my post, but especially for helping me make my point!
I reaffirm my position.
"Live Free"
- George Maynard
superman
09-05-2007, 06:23
Brattleboro, VT finally gave up their position of legalized nudity. I personally didn't care about the nudity but the nasty looking people who choose to be nude in public shouldn't (the horror).
I and many people wouldn't care about mooning if the mooners did a proper moon but too many of them are just using it as an excuse to expose themselves. So it's not about mooning but a public nudity issue. It may not be a good thing for kids to be introduced to adult nudity from that position. :-?
So I ask again, "Who is harmed?"
I think that may be a good question for the State to ask.
But I think the thru-hiking community should ask another question:
"Who is offended?"
If thrus learn that some people are-- whether its a young mother with her 6 year old boys, an old-school marine with his grand daughter or the Conductor of the Cog, or a visitor from away, they should think long and hard before sending their special semaphore.
You see, The Weasel, common courtesy demands that we try to avoid offending others in many (sorry I need to use that qualifier, but I know how you like to argue) situations. Situations like sharring a mountain with others.
And yes there may be times when one shouldn't condsider the feelings of a small group of people. I will fly my flag whether my neigbor likes it or not, for example.
I just don't think this is one of them.
I am going to open up a line of thong bikinis named moonwear.
Then, you could moon anyone, anywhere legally.
I agree that people need to use their own judgement, but there are no absolutes. Even if you only show your buttocks, it might still be immoral and illegal. But even if there happen to be children and nuns present, it might be neither immoral and nor illegal. Depends on who is doing it, under what circumstances, what their intentions are, and how they go about it. Sometimes it is legal. Sometimes it is not. Sometimes it is moral. Sometimes it is not. Sometimes these two coincide. Sometimes they do not. Now two people are ever likely to agree on such matters.
But in general, I would moon the COG, given the right mood and the right opportunity and the right circumstances. Yes I would. Most times I would not, but general speaking, would I? Yes. I also believe I am in agreement with New Hampshire Law on this matter.
645:1, Indecent Exposure and Lewdness. A person is guilty of a misdemeanour if he fornicates, exposes his genitals or performs any other act of gross lewdness under circumstances which he should know will likely cause affront or alarm.
The problem is I might not agree with how it might be interpreted and enforced, so there are some risks involved. The question is, is it worth the potential risks? I wouldn't do it for political reasons though, or to cause a serious affront or alarm to vulnerable individuals. I would only do it if it was funny.
Jim Adams
09-05-2007, 07:52
Geek, you seem very intent on viewing bare asses. I'm certain you can find hikers who'd be happy to oblige. But know that in NH, public nudity is illegal, and has consequences.
But even if it wasn't illegal, Geek, such behavior when directed at families with young children, just isn't cool.
Thanks for taking the time for responding to my post, but especially for helping me make my point!
I reaffirm my position.
I have no problem with seeing a buttocks. I do not feel that it is appropriate to display genitals to unknown groups of people though.
Obviously you are in the minotity here, just look at the poll results....thank YOU for helping me make my point!
geek
It's all in spirit in which it is done. :D
It would also be fun to thru-hike the entire trail, except to ride the COG up Mount Washington, and get everyong on board including the Conductor, the Boy Scouts, the Girl Guides, the Church Ladies, even the New Hampshire Troopers to moon all the other thru-hikers as we went past. Of course I might not get my certificate. But it would be worth it.
Just a Hiker
09-05-2007, 08:15
Hey all, I don't think it even occurs to me to moon the folks on the COG. Like I said in a previous post, it's usually foggy when I get to that area where hikers moon the COG; and quite frankly, all I have on my mind is getting to the top so I can get a chili dog.
Just Jim
There are probably a lot more worthy targets.
But it's not the target really, or even the visibility.
It's the thought that counts.
Alligator
09-05-2007, 08:36
Brattleboro, VT finally gave up their position of legalized nudity. I personally didn't care about the nudity but the nasty looking people who choose to be nude in public shouldn't (the horror).
I and many people wouldn't care about mooning if the mooners did a proper moon but too many of them are just using it as an excuse to expose themselves. So it's not about mooning but a public nudity issue. It may not be a good thing for kids to be introduced to adult nudity from that position. :-? While laws in VT aren't pertinent to the Cog situation, it should be noted that Brattleboro, VT recently reversed the temporary town ban on nudity.
I am going to open up a line of thong bikinis named moonwear.
Then, you could moon anyone, anywhere legally.Aim for uber-risque. How about a string and a patch for the ole brown eye, aarrhh arrhhh arrhhh:D .
Not to judge, but mooning like many other things can get out of hand. For instance, there used to be a time here on the river where a small boatload of people could have a pretty good time on a long weekend just sailing all the river and maybe share a pint between them. Now everyone the boats need to be bigger and everyone needs to have their own 40 and a flat of beer besides, and everyone gets so drunk the sails don't even go up they just power up and down and anchor all weekend, if they even leave the dock. People don't even bring their families anymore because they figure its not something that you should be doing with your kids around. Well maybe that should have been their first clue. Not that everything needs to be a church picnic, nor that church picnics are neccessarily a lot of fun with people occassionally mooning each other. But everything in moderation. Including moderation. No sense spoiling a good thing with tradition.
The Old Fhart
09-05-2007, 09:12
The Weasel-"And who is harmed?" As has been pointed out numerous times, the entire A.T. community is harmed. People who see this mooning from a few juvenile hikers paint the entire A.T. community and hikers in general as perverts and exhibitionists. It is also blatantly against ALDHA’s Endangered Services Campaign.
The Weasel-"……….. Yet our First Amendment gives them the right to parade and demonstrate and spew their disgusting beliefs. And rightly so." Wrong again. They have to get permits which can be denied for a number of legitimate reasons , they are restricted as to where and how long they may demonstrate, etc.. No ‘freedom’ is absolute. Your rights end where my rights begin.
The Weasel-"Is, for that matter, much more seen at the Cog Railroad than is seen at Hampton State Beach?" How about is ‘much more seen at the Cog Railroad than’ at a church, a daycare center, a play ground, a Post Office?? Get real, counselor, there is an expectation of decorum in certain places and there are laws to protect the general public in many areas.
The Weasel-"Perhaps this is a trivial issue....…"
No one is saying this is trivial, it is serious, although you are trying to make it appear otherwise by flawed arguments even a first year law student could tear apart.
The Weasel-"So if someone feels the need, well...I think New Hampshire can find a way to tolerate this."
Absolutely wrong. No one has to tolerate this sort kind of behavior. If you really feel so strongly about this, and want to test the law, then moon the Cog and take it to court. :D
I agree with the Old Ffart, except that there are no absolutes.
I can't think of a State more deserving for getting mooned,
but if the cog railway's been overdone, it's been overdone.
No sense spoiling a good thing with tradition.
But if New Hampshire's 'Strength Through Joy' ever does lose some of
its decorum, I understand that Prora might be making a comeback. :D
http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/news/europe/20070708-Germany-Prora-Ruegen-Nazi-holiday-camp.html
The Weasel
09-05-2007, 09:39
Phart:
As I showed with the Nazi/Skokie example, not every behavior that can be exhibited should be. But that doesn't mean that every behavior that shouldn't be exhibited should - or even can - be forbidden. Permits? They can't require or forbid content or the nature of permitted speech.
Can routine or "thrill" mooning be forbidden? Sure it can, whether along the trail or in any other place, if a legislative body wishes to do so. But I stand firm in saying that if someone wishes to engage in "symbolic speech" by mooning the railroad as a legitimate protest against a real or perceived evil, they can do so. Should they? That's not for me - or you - to say.
As for all hikers being 'painted' by this behavior, well, gosh. If people want to stereotype, that's up to them, and when they get done with car dealers, some older women at Tom Jones concerts, and NFL quarterbacks who own dogs - not to mention us lawyers - they can start in on hiker trash. Pardon me while I go polish my boots and put on my white hiking shirt and special hiking necktie so I don't "embarass the AT community" by my appearance. Damn. Even that doesn't work; just too ugly to hike.
As for 'first year law students' tearing apart my argument, well, hasn't happened yet. Are you one?
I suppose that license plate slogan is just another piece of babble, sort of like "Great Lakes" on Michigan's. Too bad. Guess you can't live free.
The Weasel
I still say humour is far more legitimate than political protest.
Does the law not make any such allowance for humour?
645:1, Indecent Exposure and Lewdness. A person is guilty of a misdemeanour if he fornicates, exposes his genitals or performs any other act of gross lewdness under circumstances which he should know will likely cause affront or alarm.
My thinking is that if it might be considered funny by most observers without causing serious harm to any, then it might be less likely to be seen as being 'gross lewdness under circumstances which he should know will likely cause affront or alarm."
What is the legal defintion of lewdness? Doesn't lewdness have to be of a sexual nature.
Buttocks are normally not sexual. Usually they are supposed to just be funny.
Alligator
09-05-2007, 10:01
Paint a big ole smilie face on and get a pair of those super sunglasses they sell as novelties at the beach. Heck if you shave it right, you can get add a goatee and the tourists will be laughing for hours:jump .
taildragger
09-05-2007, 10:03
I have the strangest feeling that the conductors probably have a little contest for who can peg the most hikers in a week. If I worked there and was mooned every day I know that I would do something to punish the hikers and then laugh about it over a pint.
And as for mooning, I think that I did far more mooning as a child then nowadays (although it has been known to happen in the bar after a few too many boiler makers)
OTOH, I think I would laugh my arse off if I was a hiker and a train full of people mooned me.
But, I guess in the end I would not actually moon the train. I don't want the kiddies to reach the top of the mountain and run around afraid of the grizzly bear with a big green pack :eek:
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/lewd
Lewd
1 obsolete : EVIL, WICKED
2 a : sexually unchaste or licentious b : OBSCENE, VULGAR
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/sexual
sexual
1 : of, relating to, or associated with sex or the sexes
2 : having or involving sex
I don't think showing buttocks is sexual, along as it is funny.
Perhaps there is some other law that is being applied here?
Does New Hampshire have a law on maintaining decorum? :D
Perhaps it has to do with financial interests?
Are you allowed to stop people from mooning to protect your financial interests, which seems to be what matters most to these people, and also the reason most people seem to be mooning them in the first place. It would certainly be a more honest and direct approach.
Shame that I might have got caught up in the middle, while only trying to be funny. :D
Alligator
09-05-2007, 10:14
These sunglasses (http://www.zymetrical.com/product.asp?3=490) might work:-? .
taildragger
09-05-2007, 10:15
How are you gonna make a nose bridge on your arse, I should I just not ask?
Weasel,
Has humour ever been considered in a legal argument as a legitimate reason
for 'symbolic language'? For example, could you make a case that someone
was not being lewd or offensive because they were only trying to be funny?
Also, isn't it also true that sometimes we must 'force people to be free'?
I am not sure if that is best done by fines or prison terms.
Sometimes it's sufficient to just moon them. :D
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-05-2007, 10:25
I feel someone in the area should leave several round cutouts about 18" in diameter in the area with belts attached. The cutouts should be decorated with a painting or photo of a full-moon. Hikers should don these and properly salute the COG without fear of arrest and passengers could still view the 'scenery'
generoll
09-05-2007, 10:26
so what do you think? fact or fiction?
http://www.darwinawards.com/personal/personal2005-13.html
Alligator
09-05-2007, 10:26
How are you gonna make a nose bridge on your arse, I should I just not ask?One might use this (http://www.gagworks.com/RU1468.html), but it could get you into trouble! Perhaps just cut one out of foam.
Footslogger
09-05-2007, 10:31
I feel someone in the area should leave several round cutouts about 18" in diameter in the area with belts attached. The cutouts should be decorated with a painting or photo of a full-moon. Hikers should don these and properly salute the COG without fear of arrest and passengers could still view the 'scenery'
====================================
Better yet ...a small billboard near the summit facing the Cog depicting 3 - 4 hikers hanging a moon. It could even be one of those types that have the cut-outs so that the hikers could, if they desire, drop trou and insert their posteriors in the hole. That way the amount of exposure could be controlled while still allowing the exhibitionist hikers the opportunity to bare their butts.
'Slogger
I feel someone in the area should leave several round cutouts about 18" in diameter in the area with belts attached. The cutouts should be decorated with a painting or photo of a full-moon. Hikers should don these and properly salute the COG without fear of arrest and passengers could still view the 'scenery'Brilliant
Better yet ...a small billboard near the summit facing the Cog depicting 3 - 4 hikers hanging a moon. It could even be one of those types that have the cut-outs so that the hikers could, if they desire, drop trou and insert their posteriors in the hole. That way the amount of exposure could be controlled while still allowing the exhibitionist hikers the opportunity to bare their butts.
'Slogger
Might get booby trapped.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaKXxzLuZ1Q
The Old Fhart
09-05-2007, 11:06
The Weasel-"But that doesn't mean that every behavior that shouldn't be exhibited should - or even can - be forbidden. Permits? They can't require or forbid content or the nature of permitted speech."Don't like it? Take it to the courts. As it stands, that's how it is in the real world, even Skokie.
The Weasel-"But I stand firm in saying that if someone wishes to engage in "symbolic speech" by mooning the railroad as a legitimate protest against a real or perceived evil, they can do so."Pithy argument thrown out of court. You have failed to show that anyone has mooned the Cog 'as a legitimate protest against a real or perceived evil'.
The Weasel-"As for all hikers being 'painted' by this behavior, well, gosh...."You're being argumentative to the absurd degree. You know how the mooning will be perceived, you know it is illegal, you know it is against ALDHA's Endangered Services Campaign, and you know it will only tarnish the image others have of thru hikers. Your flawed line of reasoning is like burning down a forest to save the trees from loggers.
The Weasel-"As for 'first year law students' tearing apart my argument, well, hasn't happened yet. Are you one?No I'm not but I can still do it.:D
BTW, you also loose all credibility because you can't even spell my name right, Weeble.:rolleyes:
I never have understood mooning. Mooners seem to think that in someway they're putting down the viewers. But in the animal kingdom, the presenting of one's hind quarters is a sign of submission. This is the interpretation I prefer when I'm mooned.
As for the "think of the children" argument, I understand the emotion behind it, but has a study ever shown that children are damaged by seeing a moon? I'd really like to know.
I am still not convinced that all mooning is illegal in New Hampshire.
I am also not convinced that this concern is being driven by moral standards
Specifically, what is the law that is being broken here? The decorum law?
I think it is a big mistake to confuse decorum, and commercial interests, with legality and morality. There are no absolutes here. If there is lewd and/or excessive behaviour it should be discouraged, and the perhaps a campaign like the "Endangered Services Campaign" might be a good way to do that, but don't neccessarily confuse narrow views and special interests with legality and morality in a democratic society. Not all mooning is immoral. Not all mooning is illegal. There is a lot of lewd and disgusting and immoral behaviour that goes on out there, and mooning is sometimes part of that, but is all seems to be overlooked until some people start losing money. Well there is a higher standard. Sometimes mooning is neither illegal nor immoral. Sometimes it is just plain funny. We should build a society where people should be truly free to use their own judgement, and discretion. That takes a lot more work than building a trail and looking out for certain commercial interests. The Appalachian Trail and other Nature Conservation initiatives should be a part of building that society. When we advocate 'decorum' as a front for commercial interests, we are not building that society. We are tearing it down.
There, I can play the ivory tower game as good as anybody.
Quick, somebody moon me.
Some interesting history on 'Decorum':
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decorum
Alligator
09-05-2007, 11:58
...
There, I can play the ivory tower game as good as anybody.
Quick, somebody moon me.
Some interesting history on 'Decorum':
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decorumhttp://www.freesmileys.org/emo/taunt005.gif
http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/taunt005.gifThanks. Needed that. :D
taildragger
09-05-2007, 12:09
I think this is pretty much how mooning works2279
2280
People have the right not to have to see nudity, in places where it is not expected. There is nothing prudish here. The only time a person should see nudity is when they go into a place where a reasonable person whould expect to see it. Examples: public bathrooms, strip clubs, or in private areas where evryone present is consenting.
Mooning is rude, and disrepectful. I am glad they are making an effort to stop it on Mt Washington.
The Weasel
09-05-2007, 12:10
Weasel,
Has humour ever been considered in a legal argument as a legitimate reason
for 'symbolic language'? For example, could you make a case that someone
was not being lewd or offensive because they were only trying to be funny?
Also, isn't it also true that sometimes we must 'force people to be free'?
I am not sure if that is best done by fines or prison terms.
Sometimes it's sufficient to just moon them. :D
As a matter of fact, it's very common. Most famous of those arrested, convicted, and then successful on appeal is probably Lenny Bruce. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenny_Bruce#Legal_troubles
for a good description of his "legal troubles". George Carlin was present when Bruce was arrested, by the way, and was arrested himself for refusing to produce ID, and rode in the paddy wagon with Bruce to jail.
So yeah, it happens. Plan on paying a really good weasel a lot of money to make the defense work, though.
As to whether it ever works to 'force people to be free', well, in the short term, no, it doesn't work. Sometimes it does, over the long term, by confrontations fueled by belief. My generation tried that, with mixed results.
The thing that amazes me a bit in this thread is what you're really implying, I think, and that I have to agree with: "Mooning" is a very silly way of conveying a thought: "Here's what I think of you." It's far less aggressive than "flipping the bird" (for which I doubt the NH Troopers would ticket you if you addressed it generically to the Cog), it's not lewd as long as it's rear-view only and sexual suggestiveness avoided, and it's not part of shocking language. It's someone's butt; a fanny. No more. And dropping pants to show it to a train is sophomoric, stupid, silly, but not particularly harmful to kids. Nuns, by the way, also have buttocks, have seen and been involved in far worse, and have senses of humor. So what's the big deal here? On one level it's just silliness - tasteless humor that can be seen, almost identically, on 'prime time' TV, or a political statement.
Sorry, New Hampshire. If this is a law enforcement priority for you, well, I'm disappointed. And as for "shaming the AT community," well, that's a bit over the top too.
The Weasel
People have the right not to have to see nudity, in places where it is not expected. There is nothing prudish here. The only time a person should see nudity is when they go into a place where a reasonable person whould expect to see it. Examples: public bathrooms, strip clubs, or in private areas where everyone present is consenting.
Mooning is rude, and disrepectful. I am glad they are making an effort to stop it on Mt Washington.I agree with you in general, but I think there are exceptions were public nudity is appropriate, as long as it is in good humour. Personally I have little time for public nudity, except when it is funny.
From the sound of things from reading this forum I agree that mooning on Mt Washington has probably gotten out of hand and should be stopped, because it just isn't funny anymore. But as a cynical person I suspect that certain commericial interests are more at play than any high moral standards, or even good taste. I hope people do maintain their sense of humour through it all. I think Dino's suggestion of people wearing moon posters was hilarious. If more people think more originally, as she Dino and he Dino, we would all be better off in the long run.
The main reason I don't moon in public, is I know that I am really not that kind of funny, so most of the time I leave it to others. But in the right place, and in the right season, I know I could find my place in the sun. :D
Weasel,
Thanks for the reply. I agree about the nuns of course. Most Nuns have an incredible sense of humour, but always in good taste, so they raise the bar quite high. I would never try and moon a group of Nuns because I know I would be outdone. If I had the right opportunity to moon the cog, for it to be funny enough, I wouldn't mind so much just paying the fine. It would have to be really funny to be worth $150 though, as I am a real cheap skate. For this reason weasels don't seem to like me any more than outfitters or cog railway operators. Perhaps I could save up the money to moon the cog by stealth camping my way through New Hampshire. Perhaps I could do some stealth mooning also. Does that even work? :D
If a moon rises in a forest, with no one to see it, does New Hampshire still lose money?
The Old Fhart
09-05-2007, 13:14
The Weasel-"Sorry, New Hampshire. If this is a law enforcement priority for you, well, I'm disappointed." Sorry, The Weasel, once again your dead wrong. This is one of the first times fines have been handed out. As an officer of the court it is somewhat disingenuous of you to criticize the State of NH for occasionally enforcing a law.
[QUOTE]The Weasel-"And as for "shaming the AT community," well, that's a bit over the top too."Actually it brings shame on the A.T. community. If you don't give a darn how the members of your community (or is that community of members?:-?) behave in public, and you have no shame, you won't see the problem.
If you love the trail, and believe in ALDHA's Endangered Services Campaign, the bottom line is you wouldn't make an arse of yourself in public or encourage others to display theirs.
The Weasel
09-05-2007, 13:18
Weasel,
Thanks for the reply. I agree about the nuns of course. Most Nuns have an incredible sense of humour, but always in good taste, so they raise the bar quite high. I would never try and moon a group of Nuns because I know I would be outdone. If I had the right opportunity to moon the cog, for it to be funny enough, I wouldn't mind so much just paying the fine. It would have to be really funny to be worth $150 though, as I am a real cheap skate. For this reason weasels don't seem to like me any more than outfitters or cog railway operators. Perhaps I could save up the money to moon the cog by stealth camping my way through New Hampshire. Perhaps I could do some stealth mooning also. Does that even work? :D
J-
Well, I've known nuns with really lousy taste in humor, and who laughed riotously at good humor - i.e. funny - even though it had about every kind of sexual or other aspect to it. In other words, George Carlin.
As for weasels not liking you because you're cheap, trust me. They like you, but to run a number on the Cog will be more in weasel fees than the fine. Might be fun, tho, and maybe you'd find a weasel willing to do it for the humor in it. If you want to try it on the PCT, say, let me know.
Stealth mooning really does work, too. Do it at night. Mooning in the moon light. Yeah. Except we're gonna get told that's not nice. Damn. Always something.
The Weasel
The Weasel
09-05-2007, 13:24
Sorry, The Weasel, once again your dead wrong. This is one of the first times fines have been handed out. As an officer of the court it is somewhat disingenuous of you to criticize the State of NH for occasionally enforcing a law.
[quote]Actually it brings shame on the A.T. community. If you don't give a darn how the members of your community (or is that community of members?:-?) behave in public, and you have no shame, you won't see the problem.
If you love the trail, and believe in ALDHA's Endangered Services Campaign, the bottom line is you wouldn't make an arse of yourself in public or encourage others to display theirs.
Well, Fhart, Dude, I'm sorry if you don't have a clue about what "officer of the court" means. It doesn't mean I - or any other attorney, I don't care what Berty Gonzales says - is a toady to every stupid or wise law a state picks. It means we are responsible for doing our damndedst to make the justice system work fairly. That includes defending people's rights - including unpopular ones. If you want lawyers who represent you by agreeing with the prosecution, well, that's exactly how it happens in China. Sorry. I like our way.
Nor am I encouraging anyone to moon. That's a personal choice. But I'm not really clear on what the "shame" is. You seem pretty stuck up that this is some kind of horrible cloud of disrepute over the "trail community," although I never heard of all this horrible shame that befell all of us until a couple of people like you started talking about "the shame." Oh, the horror! The horror!
Me, I think both the mooning, and your attitude about it, are funny. Consider yourself mooned.
What exactly is the law that is being broken and enforced?
How many are breaking each year at the cog railway?
Are they arresting everyone that moons,
or only when it is done in a lewd manner?
Gray Blazer
09-05-2007, 13:32
Anybody here ever ride the cog railway? That things scary enough without being mooned.
645:1, Indecent Exposure and Lewdness. A person is guilty of a misdemeanour if he fornicates, exposes his genitals or performs any other act of gross lewdness under circumstances which he should know will likely cause affront or alarm.
I doubt that mooning in itself constitutes gross lewdness in New Hampshire.
Footslogger
09-05-2007, 13:43
Anybody here ever ride the cog railway? That things scary enough without being mooned.
=================================
Ya know ...we did. The wife and I went back last year in late July to hike Rangeley to Gorham and had a few days to kill afterwards. We did some trail magic and the notches and then said ...what the hell, let's be tourons !!
Pretty funny getting to the top and seeing hikers from that perspective ...and yeah, that damn thing does get a tad hairy. Sparks flying the whole way up. After the ride you're picking ashes off your clothing and coal bits out of your teeth.
'Slogger
The Weasel
09-05-2007, 13:43
Law enforcement authorities know that issuance of a citation for mooning to a transient hiker is going to have several effects, all of them similar to ticketing an out-of-state driver: First, it is unlikely to be contested, since trials will be several weeks off, so a guilty plea is likely. (But risky: See my Law for Backpackers 101 article in the articles section, which indicates that a guilty plea might result in having to register in that state or your home state as a Sexual Offender for life.) Second, it's going to get the word around to stop the behavior, whether lawful or not. Since the ticket is arguable, it's not total harassment. But it is "sending a message" enforcement. Which means that the police get away with it, without it being tested.
The Weasel
The Weasel
09-05-2007, 13:52
Law enforcement authorities know that issuance of a citation for mooning to a transient hiker is going to have several effects, all of them similar to ticketing an out-of-state driver: First, it is unlikely to be contested, since trials will be several weeks off, so a guilty plea is likely. (But risky: See my Law for Backpackers 101 article in the articles section, which indicates that a guilty plea might result in having to register in that state or your home state as a Sexual Offender for life.) Second, it's going to get the word around to stop the behavior, whether lawful or not. Since the ticket is arguable, it's not total harassment. But it is "sending a message" enforcement. Which means that the police get away with it, without it being tested.
The Weasel
To add to this post, so you people know what New Hampshire is doing to these horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE people....
If the offense is "Indecent Exposure," New Hampshire law requires that, upon conviction (that includes guilty pleas), the Defendant must register with New Hampshire for 10 years as a sexual offender, with pictures and all the rest. It means that person has serious disqualifiers about where they can live, work, or even walk, such as near schools, parks, or other places where children congregate.
http://www.sexcriminals.com/megans-law/us/new-hampshire/
If Old Fhart thinks this is appropriate to prevent the "shame" on the Trail Community, well, I differ.
But those contemplating it should keep this in mind and those ticketed or arrested should make sure they consult with an attorney before pleading guilty "to get it over with." Right, Senator Craig?
The Weasel
The Weasel
Are these people actually being charged for indecent exposure?
Let's talk some numbers to put this all into perspective.
How many people moon the cog railway each year?
How many of these, if any, are charged with indecent exposure?
Is simple mooning considered 'gross lewdness' in New Hampshire, or is it not?
Alligator
09-05-2007, 14:16
NO The Weasel you are spreading misinformation. You only have to register (in NH) if you are a sexual offender or offender against children defined below. One gets to be a "sexual offender" through felony indecent exposure or lewdness. This is different than misdemeanor indecent exposure. It takes a felony indecent exposure to get put on the sex offender list.
1. WHO IS REQUIRED TO REGISTER?
Sexual offenders and offenders against children must register.
(N.H. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 651-B:2(I))
2. WHAT DOES “SEX OFFENDER” MEAN?
“Sexual offender” means a person who has been convicted of any violation or attempted violation of the following offenses:
(1) aggravated felonious sexual assault;
(2) felonious sexual assault;
(3) sexual assault;
(4) felony indecent exposure or lewdness; or
(5) an equivalent offense in another jurisdiction.
(N.H. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 651-B:1(III))
3. WHAT DOES “OFFENDER AGAINST CHILDREN” MEAN?
“Offender against children” means a person who has been convicted of any violation or attempted violation of:
(1) any of the following offenses when the victim was under 18:
(a) kidnapping;
(b) criminal restraint;
(c) false imprisonment; or
(d) prostitution or related offenses;
(2) intentional contribution to delinquency;
(3) endangering the welfare of a minor or an incompetent;
(4) child-pornography offenses;
(5) certain prohibited uses of computer services;
(6) obscenity involving a minor in the material deemed obscene; or
(7) an equivalent offense in another jurisdiction.
(N.H. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 651-B:1(V))
TITLE LXII
CRIMINAL CODE
CHAPTER 645
PUBLIC INDECENCY
Section 645:1
645:1 Indecent Exposure and Lewdness. –
I. A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if such person:
(a) Fornicates, exposes his or her genitals or performs any other act of gross lewdness under circumstances which he or she should know will likely cause affront or alarm.
(b) Purposely performs any act of sexual penetration or sexual contact on himself or herself or another in the presence of a child who is at least 13 years of age and less than 16 years of age.
II. A person is guilty of a class B felony if:
(a) Such person purposely performs any act of sexual penetration or sexual contact on himself or herself or another in the presence of a child who is 12 years of age or younger.
(b) Having previously been convicted of an offense under subparagraph I(b), or of an offense which includes the same conduct under any other jurisdiction, the person subsequently commits an offense under subparagraph I(b).
III. A person shall be guilty of a class A felony if having previously been convicted of 2 or more offenses under subparagraph I(b) or II(a), or of 2 or more offenses which include the same conduct under any other jurisdiction, the person subsequently commits an offense under subparagraph I(b) or II(a).
Source. 1971, 518:1. 1992, 254:10. 1993, 297:1, eff. Jan. 1, 1994. 1999, 321:1, eff. Jan. 1, 2000.
Weasel,
Are doubt that any of these people are being charged with felony indecent exposure. I could be wrong. Any how, I read Megan's Law and it is not all that clear whether or not it includes indecent exposure and lewdness if it is just a misdemeanor. I don't know. Could you provide further clarity?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indecent_exposure
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/LXII/645/645-1.htm
CHAPTER 645
PUBLIC INDECENCY
Section 645:1
645:1 Indecent Exposure and Lewdness. –
I. A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if such person:
(a) Fornicates, exposes his or her genitals or performs any other act of gross lewdness under circumstances which he or she should know will likely cause affront or alarm.
(b) Purposely performs any act of sexual penetration or sexual contact on himself or herself or another in the presence of a child who is at least 13 years of age and less than 16 years of age.
II. A person is guilty of a class B felony if:
(a) Such person purposely performs any act of sexual penetration or sexual contact on himself or herself or another in the presence of a child who is 12 years of age or younger.
(b) Having previously been convicted of an offense under subparagraph I(b), or of an offense which includes the same conduct under any other jurisdiction, the person subsequently commits an offense under subparagraph I(b).
III. A person shall be guilty of a class A felony if having previously been convicted of 2 or more offenses under subparagraph I(b) or II(a), or of 2 or more offenses which include the same conduct under any other jurisdiction, the person subsequently commits an offense under subparagraph I(b) or II(a).
Source. 1971, 518:1. 1992, 254:10. 1993, 297:1, eff. Jan. 1, 1994. 1999, 321:1, eff. Jan. 1, 2000.
I don't even think simple mooning in itself constitutes 'gross lewdness'.
Is there any case history for this in New Hampshire?
I. A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if such person:
(a) Fornicates, exposes his or her genitals or performs any other act of gross lewdness under circumstances which he or she should know will likely cause affront or alarm.
The Old Fhart
09-05-2007, 14:36
The Weasel-" Well, Fhart, Dude, I'm sorry if you don't have a clue about what "officer of the court" means.
Actually, I do but apparently you don't! :D And seeing no one who has mooned the Cog is a client of yours (lucky them!), being “an advocate, in the discharge of his duties, knows but one person in all the world, and that person is his client,” doesn’t apply to you here.
You say “Law enforcement authorities know that issuance of a citation for mooning to a transient hiker is going to have several effects…..” That is a laughable statement coming from someone who claims to be a lawyer. Police officers who see a crime being committed aren’t obliged to ascertain whether the person who broke the law is a resident or not- that is just ridiculous. If the criminal is from out of state, the same laws apply. Sometimes the law isn't just black and white, sometimes it's just Black's.;)
Whether the person committing the crime is a resident or not, the chances of winning a case such as this are slim to none so almost everyone is going to plead guilty instead of paying some lawyer a bunch of money then be found guilty. You admit that you know that being found guilty or pleading guilty to mooning “might result in having to register in that state or your home state as a Sexual Offender for life.” That is kind of a stretch but if you believe that then your trying to trivialize mooning the Cog with your previous arguments is a little dishonest.
As far as your saying “But I'm not really clear on what the "shame" is,” the only time I used it was in reply to your comment in post #387 where you misused the word and I was enlightening you (hopeless, I know). What I’ve actually said is “you know it will only tarnish the image others have of thru hikers,” and I’ll stand by that. You don’t like the word ‘shame’, then don’t use, or misuse it.
______________________________
A lawyer has a duty to be honest and to not file frivolous cases.
This case from Maryland:
The Ruling That Opens a Crack in the Door
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/04/AR2006010402270.html
Let's put up or shut up.
Is mooning really a crime in New Hampshire, or is it not?
If so, what crime, and has anyone ever been convicted?
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/2007/04/could-you-end-up-on-sex-offender.html
As for mooning or peeing landing you in the public registry, I could almost hear the inspector shaking his head and rolling his eyes. "That's not true," he declared. "That's not even close to true."
The Weasel
09-05-2007, 15:55
NO The Weasel you are spreading misinformation. You only have to register (in NH) if you are a sexual offender or offender against children defined below. One gets to be a "sexual offender" through felony indecent exposure or lewdness. This is different than misdemeanor indecent exposure. It takes a felony indecent exposure to get put on the sex offender list.
.
Alligator, I'm sorry, but as much as I wish I was wrong, I'm not, and here's why: At the time of an arrest (which is any police stop for purposes of issuing a citation as well as formal booking), the decision on what offense is being chaged is (initially) up to the police officer and then, subsequently, the local prosecuting attorney. It is very difficult to know, in advance, whether a particular act of "indecent exposure" is going to be charged as a misdemeanor or as a felony, so anyone engaging in mooning has to be aware that their actions might result in a felony charge. While I am not certain what would impel a particular prosecutor in that area to act, the fact that the exposure was to a large number of people, that children were present, whether any genitalia were observed/observable, and other factors may make a difference in the charge.
There are two choices: Guess safe, and do nothing, or guess risky, and maybe you don't get charged at all, maybe you get charged with a misdemeanor, and maybe, just maybe, you get charged with a felony.
It is also important to note that I believe some states may include misdemeanor violations of indecent exposure, even in other states, to require registration. This, too can be a problem.
Wish you were right, Alligator, but as I say, the smart bet is to do nothing, regardless of why.
The Weasel
Johnny Thunder
09-05-2007, 16:04
Ok, so what it really boils down to is that if you want to bare your hide you gotta pay the fine?
Sounds plain and simple to me. Risk it or don't.
(armchairin' it here on the blaze won't solve a thing)
Johnny
TOF, ya'll ought to just have a referendum in NH concerning mooning the cog and codify it once and for all, then you could just link it and be done with it. I know many on WhiteBlaze would be at a loss, but then maybe more substantive issues could be addressed.:rolleyes:
Who in his or her right mind would read all this crap anyway?
Sounds like urban legend stuff to me, but I suppose the justice system can screw up just like any place else. I still won't hesitate to pee in the woods, change my clothes in my car, etc, etc, including mooning a passing train, but only if its funny. I won't be paying any fines for indecent exposure though, not even a misdemeanor. Mooning does not fall under that category. Even streaking shouldn't fall under that category. So I agree you shouldn't take such charges lightly, but I doubt they are likely to occur.
I doubt that anyone has ever been fined for mooning the cog.
It is far more likely that someone has just been pulling our leg.
The Weasel
09-05-2007, 16:07
Phart, you seem more interested in making this a flame war than much else, and I'm just sort of tired of that game. I've said what I've said, and I haven't attacked you, but if you wish to flame in this thread, go ahead. Have fun. Bye.
The Weasel
dixicritter
09-05-2007, 16:15
Oh my goodness... y'all have been arguing about this for 138 posts now (I started my count with post #275 yesterday). SOME of you really need to take a break from this subject because you are letting this really get too personal.
I just went over the posts and I have a few things to set straight...
#1. JAK, I don't know where you got the idea that L. Wolf is a pervert but you couldn't be further from the truth. YOU brought your daughter up NOT him, then when he tried to make a point by using her as an example (not knowing her age I might add, and how could he?) you go off on him? Not cool! I happen to know L. Wolf in real life and would trust my kids with him without question, and I'm a VERY protective mom.
#2. To no one in particular... but dadgum, y'all need to get away from the keyboards and go hiking or something. Geez! It is WAY too early for cabin fever. I ain't playin! Sheesh.
Keep it up and this one will have to go to commercial break while we figure out what to do with y'all. :)
Weasel, before you go.
If I did get a ticket for peeing in the woods or mooning a train or whatever by some over zealous police officer, which I seriously doubt would happen, what exactly do you suggest that I do? If what you are saying is, don't pay the fine, and don't ignore it either, because of Meagan's Law, then I suppose that makes sense. So if I am from out of state what happens? Do I have to always have to make a court appearance at a much later date for such things or is there some other way of dealing with such things right away, other than by admitting guilt and paying a fine?
Oh my goodness... y'all have been arguing about this for 138 posts now (I started my count with post #275 yesterday). SOME of you really need to take a break from this subject because you are letting this really get too personal.
I just went over the posts and I have a few things to set straight...
#1. JAK, I don't know where you got the idea that L. Wolf is a pervert but you couldn't be further from the truth. YOU brought your daughter up NOT him, then when he tried to make a point by using her as an example (not knowing her age I might add, and how could he?) you go off on him? Not cool! I happen to know L. Wolf in real life and would trust my kids with him without question, and I'm a VERY protective mom.
#2. To no one in particular... but dadgum, y'all need to get away from the keyboards and go hiking or something. Geez! It is WAY too early for cabin fever. I ain't playin! Sheesh.
Keep it up and this one will have to go to commercial break while we figure out what to do with y'all. :)Dixi, with all due respect, I did not bring my daughter up in the context that he did. I suggest that you drop this issue, and delete the posts. I do not want to discuss my daughter any more on this forum, with ANYBODY. That is no joke.
max patch
09-05-2007, 16:23
I bet Sen Craig would moon the cog.
superman
09-05-2007, 16:28
I bet Sen Craig would moon the cog.
and then he'd plead guilty and then he'd resign and then he'd deny it and then he'd get supporters and then....
max patch
09-05-2007, 16:33
and then he'd plead guilty and then he'd resign and then he'd deny it and then he'd get supporters and then....
...he'd hire weazie!!!!
Johnny Thunder
09-05-2007, 16:36
Dixi, with all due respect, I did not bring my daughter up in the context that he did. I suggest that you drop this issue, and delete the posts. I do not want to discuss my daughter any more on this forum, with ANYBODY. That is no joke.
...But, you just brought her up AGAIN!
Duder, you need to learn about the Private Message (read: not continually posting messages about your daughter in a forum devoted to discussion of privates).
Johnny
Is there any evidence that anyone has every been fined or arrested or convicted for mooning anyone anywhere on the AT, or are all these just campfire stories?
Alligator
09-05-2007, 16:38
Alligator, I'm sorry, but as much as I wish I was wrong, I'm not, and here's why: At the time of an arrest (which is any police stop for purposes of issuing a citation as well as formal booking), the decision on what offense is being chaged is (initially) up to the police officer and then, subsequently, the local prosecuting attorney. It is very difficult to know, in advance, whether a particular act of "indecent exposure" is going to be charged as a misdemeanor or as a felony, so anyone engaging in mooning has to be aware that their actions might result in a felony charge. While I am not certain what would impel a particular prosecutor in that area to act, the fact that the exposure was to a large number of people, that children were present, whether any genitalia were observed/observable, and other factors may make a difference in the charge.
There are two choices: Guess safe, and do nothing, or guess risky, and maybe you don't get charged at all, maybe you get charged with a misdemeanor, and maybe, just maybe, you get charged with a felony.
It is also important to note that I believe some states may include misdemeanor violations of indecent exposure, even in other states, to require registration. This, too can be a problem.
Wish you were right, Alligator, but as I say, the smart bet is to do nothing, regardless of why.
The WeaselBS The Weasel, the statue is printed out. The thread is about NH. Where,
II. A person is guilty of a class B felony if:
(a) Such person purposely performs any act of sexual penetration or sexual contact on himself or herself or another in the presence of a child who is 12 years of age or younger.
(b) Having previously been convicted of an offense under subparagraph I(b), or of an offense which includes the same conduct under any other jurisdiction, the person subsequently commits an offense under subparagraph I(b).
III. A person shall be guilty of a class A felony if having previously been convicted of 2 or more offenses under subparagraph I(b) or II(a), or of 2 or more offenses which include the same conduct under any other jurisdiction, the person subsequently commits an offense under subparagraph I(b) or II(a).
Those are the conditions for a conviction of a felony which would require registration. It's the conviction that matters not the charge.
We weren't talking about other states either: Cog, NH, indecent exposure.
Alligator
09-05-2007, 16:45
And one other thing I've got to say,
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http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/taunt007.gif
Jack Tarlin
09-05-2007, 16:46
I've stayed outta this one cuz it seemed like a pretty lame thread.
But since it seems like it's about to be closed down, here's my two cents:
I've mooned the cog, many times. Last time was at least 5 years ago; I sorta made the decision to stop, realizing it was a pretty stupid and immature thing to be doing (a decision I probably should have made more than 20 years previously).
Is it an innocuous, light-hearted, jolly, harmless sort of thing to do? I guess some folks can view it that way. I suppose I did for a long time. On the other hand, there are plenty of folks who'd find it offensive. If I were on the train with my grandmother or with little kids, I'm not sure I'd find it so amusing. In short, it's a "tradition" that probably we can do without, and I can't see that ending this dubious tradition impacts anyone's freedom or rights. I wouldn't want anyone doing this in front of families on the Town Green in Hanover.....so why does it suddenly become acceptable or defensible when it's done on Mt. Washington?
In short, this old hiker has mooned his last cog, and other folks should probably consider doing likewise.
Unless you know FOR A FACT that the Train in question contains nothing but New York Yankee fans.
In that case, please dis-regard this post.
Alligator
09-05-2007, 16:59
Is there any evidence that anyone has every been fined or arrested or convicted for mooning anyone anywhere on the AT, or are all these just campfire stories?Hiker named Redwood says he or she was ticketed with four others recently.
http://www.trailforums.com/detail.cfm?EntryID=80347#80347
The Old Fhart
09-05-2007, 17:02
The Weasel-"Phart, you seem more interested in making this a flame war than much else, and I'm just sort of tired of that game. I've said what I've said, and I haven't attacked you, but if you wish to flame in this thread, go ahead. Have fun. Bye."Truly sorry you can't spell my name right after so many tries but I guess it has to be intentional on your part. It is too bad that you don't like others correcting your misconceptions about NH law, and the law in general. If you aren't capable of taking pointed criticism and have to resort to misspelling my name to attack me then it is best if you figuratively pull up your pants and go to a place where you'll feel safe and secure.:rolleyes:
Now, at last, the thread can get back on topic after having been hijacked.
Jan LiteShoe
09-05-2007, 17:21
"Who told you that you were naked?"
-God
:sun
The Weasel
09-05-2007, 18:08
Truly sorry you can't spell my name right after so many tries but I guess it has to be intentional on your part. It is too bad that you don't like others correcting your misconceptions about NH law, and the law in general. If you aren't capable of taking pointed criticism and have to resort to misspelling my name to attack me then it is best if you figuratively pull up your pants and go to a place where you'll feel safe and secure.:rolleyes:
Now, at last, the thread can get back on topic after having been hijacked.
I'll do this much before leaving, because of your post and that of JAK
First, I don't misspell your name on purpose, and I'm sorry for that. I usually type comments in the box in Whiteblaze that makes it hard to see names soemtimes, and I got yours wrong. It bothers you, so for that, I apologize. Beyond that error - and I am sincere about the apology - I haven't attacked you, although you want to make it personal with me. On that, I don't need the aggravation, and you can let other people believe that you know more than me, if you prefer that. But the apology stands.
Second, regarding the "this is a NH law thread" comment, I need to clarify my point: Most states have "Megan's Laws" requireing registration of sex offenders. The definition, and requirements, vary. But most require that a person who is a sex offender under the laws of their own state's definition register (forever or for a term of years) if they have been convicted in ANOTHER state. So the the issue isn't merely whether it's a misdemeanor in NH or not, but whether in hiker's home states a misdemeanor requires registration. I know of instances where traffic stops resulted in a person with an offense elsewhere arrested for a failure to register in their home state, when they were unaware of it. People need to know that.
Last, my advice to JAK (hope I got that right too; he doesn't seem to want to play flamer, so he is owed a response) and anyone else who gets a ticket, a "citation" or an arrest for anything. See a lawyer. Almost every lawyer in the US will give someone a free initial consultation with advice about whether further representation is necessary, including what the risks of pleading guilty are. That is good advice, whether it's a traffic ticket, mooning, or anything else. Anyone who doesn't know who to contact can generally call the local bar association for a referral for free.
With that, I'll withdraw from the flame wars in this thread.
The Weasel
With that, I'll withdraw from the flame wars in this thread.
The Weasel
Good for you and the rest of us too. He'll have one less person with whom to argue.;) Soon he'll stop posting or else go after me, but I'm not posting the rest of today at least.:p
The Old Fhart
09-05-2007, 18:50
Shades Of Gray-"Soon he'll stop posting or else go after me, but I'm not posting the rest of today at least.:p "You don't have to worry, you generally make sense.;)
Hey, are you trying to bait me?;)[/quote]
Alligator
09-05-2007, 21:59
You said the following The Weasel
To add to this post, so you people know what New Hampshire is doing to these horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE people....
If the offense is "Indecent Exposure," New Hampshire law requires that, upon conviction (that includes guilty pleas), the Defendant must register with New Hampshire for 10 years as a sexual offender, with pictures and all the rest. It means that person has serious disqualifiers about where they can live, work, or even walk, such as near schools, parks, or other places where children congregate.
http://www.sexcriminals.com/megans-law/us/new-hampshire/
If Old Fhart thinks this is appropriate to prevent the "shame" on the Trail Community, well, I differ.
But those contemplating it should keep this in mind and those ticketed or arrested should make sure they consult with an attorney before pleading guilty "to get it over with." Right, Senator Craig?
The Weasel
The Weasel
You were wrong there and you were specifically talking about NH. Then you backpedaled in your following quote with the Megan's Law obfuscation. These hikers aren't moving [see bottom post] into NH:rolleyes: . You have COMPLETELY misconstrued the statues. Absolutely shameless on your part. I'd give you the full monty here instead of the moon, but I don't want my smilies taken away:cool: .
...
Second, regarding the "this is a NH law thread" comment, I need to clarify my point: Most states have "Megan's Laws" requireing registration of sex offenders. The definition, and requirements, vary. But most require that a person who is a sex offender under the laws of their own state's definition register (forever or for a term of years) if they have been convicted in ANOTHER state. So the the issue isn't merely whether it's a misdemeanor in NH or not, but whether in hiker's home states a misdemeanor requires registration. I know of instances where traffic stops resulted in a person with an offense elsewhere arrested for a failure to register in their home state, when they were unaware of it. People need to know that.
...
(N.H. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 651-B:2(I))
Any offender who is required to be registered must report his or her current mailing address, place of residence or temporary domicile, and place of employment or schooling to the local law-enforcement agency within 30 days after his or her release from custody following conviction, or within 30 days after his or her date of establishment of residence in New Hampshire if convicted elsewhere.
N ot to digress, but what is the current sentiment on skinny-dipping?
Seems people have gotten odd about skin in the last two decades, or maybe it's just being back on the East Coast.
The Weasel
09-06-2007, 10:22
For the record and for those who may not be aware of Alligator's desire to attack me whenever he finds me in a thread, he is not, I believe, an attorney, and others should be extremely hesitant about what he says about the law. While I'm not interested in full body contact flaming on a topic that isn't political, I will comment by PM to anyone who has questions about what the legal implications of mooning (or anything else like it) may be.
The Weasel
7Sisters
09-06-2007, 10:41
I've been watching this thread from a distance as Jack has.
I too mooned the railway as a protest to it's existence and the obnoxoiusness of it's existence in such a prestine environment as Mt Washington. While the auto road is something I also don't like, it doesn't scar the landscape like the railroad does.
However, the bigger point of my post is rather than mooning the folks on the railway, I'm going to take a picture of the damage the railway does and do something more constructive with the picture. After having kids, I've come to the realization that mooning people on the train says more negative about me than it does about the railway. I would be suprised if people get why they are being mooned and also would be fairly certain they don't look kindly at the hiking community when they're mooned.
The funny thing about my moon was the day I mooned the railway, it was cold, windy and raining with some fog. I had to wait with my tail in the wind for a while and it was quite chilly when I was done.
Kind Regards,
Alligator
09-06-2007, 10:41
I am not an attorney, but I can read:rolleyes: . For the record, The Weasel is not admitted to the bar in any state the AT passes through. Nor do I engage The Weasel in every thread that I find him in. That's a blatant falsehood. You have no honor The Weasel, piling a lie onto a campaign of misinformation. Tsk, tsk.
The Old Fhart
09-06-2007, 12:28
Alligator-"I am not an attorney, but I" -stayed at a Holiday Inn.;)
I'll take an Alligator's advice over a Weasel's every time.:D
The Weasel
09-06-2007, 12:47
Alligator-"I am not an attorney, but I" -stayed at a Holiday Inn.;)
I'll take an Alligator's advice over a Weasel's every time.:D
I certainly hope you do.
The Weasel
You could get a pair of these shorts with the moon built in. :sun
http://www.gagsandgoods.com/products_pictures/bum_shortsthumb.jpg
Uh oh. Images allowed thread! :D
warren doyle
09-06-2007, 16:09
I never could understand the rationale/logic behind Hike Naked Day and mooning the cog. What purpose does it serve other to negatively influence non-hikers' (of which there are many) perceptions of long distance hikers (of which there are few)? I would also say that within the long distance hiking community, the majority does not indulge in this behavior out of respect for others that share the trail or is in proximity to it.
I get slightly frustrated when people define the reasons why I hike and interpret my trail experience based on their reading Bill Bryson's book or reading the numerous articles that cover Hike Naked Day or hear the tales of this incident.
I have never mooned the cog, nor ever thought of doing it. I demonstrate my feelings to the cog in what I feel is a more appropriate way. If I am able to walk into the black smoke, I simply grasp my throat, stagger around a bit and then fall to the ground and lay still.
The long distance hiking subculture doesn't need additional self-induced dark clouds hanging over it.
Jack Tarlin
09-06-2007, 16:18
The majority of long-distance hikers don't sneak around toll gates without paying; don't sneak into movie theaters without tickets; and don't scrounge leftovers off of stranger's plates in restaurants, either. They don't do this partly because they know it's wrong; they also know that such behavior tends to give observers an extremely negative view of the hiking community. Nor do most hikers "educate" other hikers, especially newcomers to the Trail, on how they can behave in a simlar fashion.
The idea of Mr. Doyle commenting or lecturing to others on how to "respect" others on the Trail by making sure they behave properly is more than a little bit ridiculous.
When My knee is more healthy, it would sound like a plan.
max patch
09-06-2007, 16:31
The idea of Mr. Doyle commenting or lecturing to others on how to "respect" others on the Trail by making sure they behave properly is more than a little bit ridiculous.
Thats EXACTLY what I was thinking as I was reading his post.
Holy crap, here we go again.
I wouldn't know WD if he bit me and I just happened to recognize BJ at Winton's place in passing this past April,
like him, hate him, ignore him, whatever, but doesn't WD's post make sense?
does it ALWAYS have to go into bash mode when he posts anything?
The Old Fhart
09-06-2007, 17:03
WD 03-05-2007 "In over 30,000 miles of long distance hiking, I have paid only $125 in fines with a $300 return on my 'investment'. The average (honest) thru hiker pays $0.00 in fines and doesn't have a spreadsheet to keep track of how much money they steal vs. fines paid.:D
Jack Tarlin
09-06-2007, 17:04
Tabasco:
It's not "bash mode."
It's just that considering his past record here at Whiteblaze and others, the thought of this individual admonishing others for behavior that would reflect badly on hikers and the hiking community is more than a bit absurd.
Does Warren's post make sense? Well, some of it does, certainly. People shouldn't behave in a way that makes other hikers look bad. That's not such a difficult concept to grasp.
Likewise, they shouldn't steal, shouldn't duck out of paying user fees that everyone else recognizes, and should act like homeless bums in restaurants.
Likewise, they shouldn't take an active role in opposing things like ALDHA's Endangered Services Campaign, an educational effort that deals solely with encouraging good behavior by hikers.
What's happening here isn't "bashing." It's merely pointing out the fact that Mr. Doyle, for many reasons, is one of the LAST people who should be riding the high horse when it comes to lecturing others on how to behave.
On this issue, he has no credibility whatsoever.
warren doyle
09-06-2007, 17:06
Yes, Tabasco, it is tiresome isn't it.
What about this new WB editorial policy concerning harassment?
Jack Tarlin
09-06-2007, 17:14
Please explain how any of my post "harassed" you, Mr. Doyle.
If you want me to produce verbatim quotes of yours from previous posts here at WB where you advocate and boast about PRECISELY the sort of bad behavior I mentioned above, I can easily do it, tho it may take awhile, as you've posted in this fashion so many times.
It's been said many times, Mr. Doyle: You'll stop feeling persecuted about this issue when you make the adult decision (last I checked you're almost 60)
to alter the behavior that so many others find objectionable.
But you refuse to do so.
In light of that, when you come to a thread dealing with proper hiker behavior and proceed to rise to the lectern to preach, well people are going to comment on this, paticularly on the impropriety and utter absurdity of YOU giving the sermon.
And you think you're being "harassed."
Um, no. You're not. So stop whining.
There's nothing in the Whiteblaze user agreement that prevents people from telling the truth, and the truth is you've made countless posts here advocating bad behavior; you've boasted about it; you've taught others how they can act similarly. And you think the whole thing is cute and funny, except when people tell you they disagree with your actions.
Then you wail about being "harassed."
For heaven's sake, grow up.
SGT Rock
09-06-2007, 18:08
I think it is called lead by example. Selecting what is a good thing and a bad thing based on your own interpretation of what you think applies to you is called situational ethics. So showing your butt to a train load of people is a bad thing (I agree) but other things that actually take away from service providers financially is O.K. because one decides they are O.K. ends up creating an atmosphere where people can change how they should act based on how they decide rules apply to them at any given time.
Last time I studied leadership, it was called leading by example. If you want to do things that are of questionable character, then people will question your character and judgements - especially when you try to tell others how to act.
Anyway. I believe the best way to get these people from attacking Mr Doyle on these things is for him to stop doing them, then telling others how to do them.
And that is the view from my foxhole.
max patch
09-06-2007, 18:17
And Jack? Don't you realize how influential you're making Warren? Frankly, I never heard of him - and I monitor the AT pretty well - until I saw you start bashing the crap out of him some time back.
You're kidding, right? Love him, hate him, or indifferent to him, Mr Doyle is one of the "names" of the trail and has been for quite a while. A looong while.
The Weasel
09-06-2007, 18:19
Anyway. I believe the best way to get these people from attacking Mr Doyle on these things is for him to stop doing them, then telling others how to do them.
And that is the view from my foxhole.
A a very nice foxhole I hope it is, Rock. But...the best way to get people to stop attacking Warren Doyle is to stop attacking him. When that happens, he become invisible. And then, as the song goes, "People walk right by me, look right through me, and never know I'm there."
Someone - Mark Twain, perhaps? - once said that God invented the Devil simply so people would have a show to watch.
The Weasel
God invented the devil?!! :confused:
I thought it was the christians that invented the devil.
Why would God invent the devil?!! :-?
SGT Rock
09-06-2007, 18:26
A a very nice foxhole I hope it is, Rock. But...the best way to get people to stop attacking Warren Doyle is to stop attacking him. When that happens, he become invisible. And then, as the song goes, "People walk right by me, look right through me, and never know I'm there."
Oh I agree too. I normally operate under the principle it is better to let someone show what sort of person he is than to try to tell everyone what sort of person a guy is. If someone has issues, they usually expose them on their own. To attack a guy only goes to motivate people to his defense because all they see is the attack - and at this point, I would say that WD has better PR skills than Jack does on this.
On the other hand, it would take the bullets out of Jacks gun if Warren would stop doing that sort of stuff to. Then Jack would have nothing to complain about unless he just doesn't like Warren.
The Weasel
09-06-2007, 18:27
You're kidding, right? Love him, hate him, or indifferent to him, Mr Doyle is one of the "names" of the trail and has been for quite a while. A looong while.
No, I'm not kidding. He may be a "name" to you, but they use today's newspaper at the market tomorrow to wrap fish. As best as I can tell, he's a "name" now only because two sets of people say he is: (1) Warren Doyle, and those who think someone attacked as much as he is must be important, and (2) those who attack him every time he shows his face, figuratively or literally. What's he done for the trail lately?
Here's the result of a Google News Search
"Your search - "warren doyle" appalachian trail - did not match any documents."
So either he's a real major cheese on the Trail - in which case, why attack him all the time? - or he's yesterday's new, in which case, why attack him all the time?
Gotta love you guys. You know, no one ever wins Whack-A-Mole at the carnival.
The Weasel
Skidsteer
09-06-2007, 18:28
A a very nice foxhole I hope it is, Rock. But...the best way to get people to stop attacking Warren Doyle is to stop attacking him. When that happens, he become invisible. And then, as the song goes, "People walk right by me, look right through me, and never know I'm there."
Are you serious?
The Weasel
09-06-2007, 18:29
God invented the devil?!! :confused:
I thought it was the christians that invented the devil.
Why would God invent the devil?!! :-?
Ummm....Aus? I think you didn't read what it says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Weasel http://whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=402555#post402555)
Someone - Mark Twain, perhaps? - once said that God invented the Devil simply so people would have a show to watch.
The Weasel
As best as I can tell, he's a "name" now only because two sets of people say he is: (1) Warren Doyle, and those who think someone attacked as much as he is must be important, and (2) those who attack him every time he shows his face, figuratively or literally. What's he done for the trail lately?
I'm almost afraid to step in here..BUT
Warren Doyle has been well known in AT circles for years. The Circle Expeditions, ALDHA, being interviewed for various documentaries and books, etc.
I think he may be less well known in the "AT Internet era" (say 2000 or so) which may explain the lack of google results.
I have no opinion on this topic otherwise. Just thought I'd add a bit of AT history.
Thanks.
Ummm....Aus? I think you didn't read what it says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Weasel http://whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=402555#post402555)
Someone - Mark Twain, perhaps? - once said that God invented the Devil simply so people would have a show to watch.
The Weasel
Uhmm yeah. He said God invented the devil. I think he was wrong. It was the christians.
Skidsteer
09-06-2007, 18:37
A 'Warren Doyle' google turned up 133,000 hits.
The Weasel
09-06-2007, 18:38
I'm almost afraid to step in here..BUT
Warren Doyle ha been well known in AT circles for years. The Circle Expeditions, ALDHA, being interviewed for various documentaries and books, etc.
I think he may be less well known in the "AT Internet era" (say 2000 or so) which may explain the lack of google results.
I have no opinion on this topic otherwise. Just thought I'd add a bit of AT history.
Thanks.
Mags, I have no doubt he once had influence. What he seems to have now is very little, until Jack (almost always) attacks him, reminding people of a faded memory. Isn't it time for people to let him remain in the relative obscurity that would be his but for these repeated flame wars that Jack starts?
The Weasel
~
"Your search - "warren doyle" appalachian trail - did not match any documents."
~
The Weasel
I think your Google stepped in a Dogpile. :D
When I ran the search, (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=warren+doyle+appalachian+trail&btnG=Google+Search) I got 109,000 hits.
But I don't know what this has to do with the price of tea in China...
The Weasel
09-06-2007, 18:42
A 'Warren Doyle' google turned up 133,00 hits.
Well, I got 8,330 for "Warren Doyle." Including "James Warren Doyle", who died in 1786, "Warren Doyle" who, in the "Shaka" won a sailboat race in February, and thousands of other "Warren Doyles". What has he done for the AT this year.
As best as I can tell, about what the average poster on WB has done, which is some, but not much. BFD.
The Weasel
Isn't it time for people to let him remain in the relative obscurity that would be his but for these repeated flame wars that Jack starts?
The Weasel
Jack and Warren do seem to have a bit of a er, heated relationship. :)
Probably good advice for anyone...
I now understand your point of being known vs. unknown in "modern times". I honestly don't know one way or another concerning influence on the AT community.
Anyway, I don't have too much to add other than my quick AT history lesson. :)
(I have been in training all day...damn..this work thing is intefering with my on-line hiking site postings! :D)
The Weasel
09-06-2007, 18:43
I think your Google stepped in a Dogpile. :D
When I ran the search, (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=warren+doyle+appalachian+trail&btnG=Google+Search) I got 109,000 hits.
But I don't know what this has to do with the price of tea in China...
Roland, mine was for Google News, since I wanted to see if there were any news stories about this guy that were findable. Nada.
The Weasel
Roland, mine was for Google News, since I wanted to see if there were any news stories about this guy that were findable. Nada.
The Weasel
Well, isn't that interesting.
If Warren Doyle committed these alleged crimes, with the same frequency that Jack Tarlin posts about them, wouldn't you expect Doyle's name to be in the headlines, daily? :rolleyes:
The Weasel
09-06-2007, 18:51
Well, isn't that interesting.
If Warren Doyle committed these alleged crimes, at the same frequency that Jack Tarlin posts about then, wouldn't you expect Doyle's name to be in the headlines, daily? :rolleyes:
Well, they may have been...many years ago. Read about it in the fish wrap.:rolleyes:
The Weasel
I never could understand the rationale/logic behind Hike Naked Day and mooning the cog. What purpose does it serve other to negatively influence non-hikers' (of which there are many) perceptions of long distance hikers (of which there are few)? I would also say that within the long distance hiking community, the majority does not indulge in this behavior out of respect for others that share the trail or is in proximity to it.We think alike, Warren.
I am also heartened to learn that Jack Tarlin has come around to what we knew all along, and won't be mooning the COG any longer.
I guess Jack has learned something from a "recreational walker" after all. Allbeit from one with 30K AT miles under his belt.
I hope that in the process, he has also recognized that despite having walked almost a third of what you have, his erstwhile trail philosophy can always evolve into something on a higher plain.
Hike strong and flow with the Trail.
Rickb
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-06-2007, 18:57
You could get a pair of these shorts with the moon built in. :sun
http://www.gagsandgoods.com/products_pictures/bum_shortsthumb.jpg :D
::: Dino seen ordering cute, tiny tail for hereself :::
You got Ryan O'Neil's movie "So Fine" in your DVD Library, FD?
If not, you should. I deserved the Oscar!
Well, isn't that interesting.
If Warren Doyle committed these alleged crimes, at the same frequency that Jack Tarlin posts about then, wouldn't you expect Doyle's name to be in the headlines, daily? :rolleyes:
I don't think it is the "committing" part (still a problem) as much as it is WD's continuing stamp of approval for these type of actions. I think Jack really cares about the hiker image and believes that WD's approval and perpetuation of this kind of bad behavior will tarnish the image of hikers to the locals and the public in general. I cannot really blame him for speaking out but it does get tiresome.
Of course my schtick must get tiresome to many so who am I to talk. :D
The Old Fhart
09-06-2007, 19:16
RickB-"I guess Jack has learned something from a "recreational walker" after all. Allbeit from one with 30K AT miles under his belt." Actually, he didn't learn that from Warren. I believe Jack came to that realization after a very long discussion with two people he was car-pooling with to Trail Days a few years ago.
This post stands out:
SGT Rock-“Last time I studied leadership, it was called leading by example. If you want to do things that are of questionable character, then people will question your character and judgements - especially when you try to tell others how to act.
Anyway. I believe the best way to get these people from attacking Mr Doyle on these things is for him to stop doing them, then telling others how to do them.
Good post, Rock. The only point I like to clarify is this: if fellow hikers justly criticize Warren's illegal behavior and they don’t like him personally because he will not obey the laws, nor will he treat any of the good people who live along the trail fairly, I don’t see that as a bad thing.
I am also heartened to learn that Jack Tarlin has come around to what we knew all along, and won't be mooning the COG any longer.
Rickb
I could be wrong, but I doubt Warren will be reminding Jack and everyone here what Jack once did years from now.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-06-2007, 19:35
Hmmm... this thread about people mooning seems to have degenerated in to everyone showing their arse :D
Hmmm... this thread about people mooning seems to have degenerated in to everyone showing their arse :D
http://www.nickersonstores.com/pranks/tn_mooning2.jpg
Jim Adams
09-07-2007, 00:34
OK...5 hikers are fined for mooning and the WB community goes off on whether it is fine or horrible for our "hiking" reputation?
WELL, don't even think of hiking the PCT...walked into the hot springs to find 150 naked people walking, talking, grilling, drinking, smoking and relaxing. MY GOD! It was so discusting that I stayed for 3 days! lol
geek
The Old Fhart
09-07-2007, 06:42
Jim Adams-"...walked into the hot springs to find 150 naked people walking, talking, grilling, drinking, smoking and relaxing."The very same thing would happen if you walked into a nudist colony or onto a nude beach- do you have a point? When you can say you walked nude into a church, onto a playground, or into a federal building and it was o.k. I'll agree you have a point but I'm afraid your example is totally irrelevant.
Big difference.
Mooning the Cog is like giving the finger. Lack of respect imposed on strangers.
Way different that what you are describing, or even a Spencer Tunic photo shoot. IMO. Do you think we could invite him to the Trail?
The Old Fhart
09-07-2007, 07:24
You got it Rick. I'm willing to bet Spencer Tunick had to get permits for most of those photos shot in public as well. Now if you get a permit to moon the Cog, maybe it would be ok.:-?
superman
09-07-2007, 07:35
The picture of Bernie's moon is on page one of the site shown below. It was an act to continue the tradition. There was no protest or ill will toward the train or the people on the train. Bernie didn't show any private parts. At the time bernie and I considered it just harmless fun continuing the tradition. In light of the issues raised in this thread it is a tradition that will likely end.
http://groups.msn.com/OldGUYthenandnow/shoebox.msnw
Jan LiteShoe
09-07-2007, 07:56
In light of the issues raised in this thread it is a tradition that will likely end.
http://groups.msn.com/OldGUYthenandnow/shoebox.msnw
Or not.
:)
BTW, Jim, great shot of you, Pat and Winter on the mountaintop. Wonderful, happy picture. Winter's really showing the meaning of "the smile on a dog." (Edie Brickell)l:) Made me smile too.
superman
09-07-2007, 10:28
Thanks Jan,
I have to use that site to show any of my pictures because I don't know how to move stuff around on a computer. The picture of Bernie's moon is instructive as to a proper moon...(that is free of private stuff). I do recall all the people on the train moving to see Bernie and take his picture. I guess they were so offended they wanted proof of the offense?
Pat and I are not racing through your book because we are reading it together and we stop and talk about it as we go. It is an absolute pleasure to read and we are savoring it. http://www.funfreedom.com/
Jack Tarlin
09-07-2007, 11:04
Hey Rick B....I wouldn't have bothered responding to your ridiculous post, but in the interestes of accuracy, I've walked a lot more miles than you gave me credit for. But I couldn't give you the exact figure, cuz unlike some folks, I don't bother keeping count or insisting that everyone know my accumulated mileage. Oddly enough, I don't really think anyone cares.
And by the way, since '83, how much long-distance hiking have YOU done?
Oh, and you're right, Rick, about my acknowledging that my previous behavior in regards to the cog was improper, and I'm glad to see you applaud my change of heart on the matter.
See Rick, the difference between me and some other prominent hikers I can think of is that I don't have any problems whatsoever admitting.....or expressing regret......for previous mistakes or previous bad behavior..
I can think of someone else who might benefit from adopting this attitude. Next time you see him, you might want to tell him this.
Appalachian Tater
09-07-2007, 11:34
I never could understand the rationale/logic behind Hike Naked Day and mooning the cog. What purpose does it serve other to negatively influence non-hikers' (of which there are many) perceptions of long distance hikers (of which there are few)? I would also say that within the long distance hiking community, the majority does not indulge in this behavior out of respect for others that share the trail or is in proximity to it.
I get slightly frustrated when people define the reasons why I hike and interpret my trail experience based on their reading Bill Bryson's book or reading the numerous articles that cover Hike Naked Day or hear the tales of this incident.
I have never mooned the cog, nor ever thought of doing it. I demonstrate my feelings to the cog in what I feel is a more appropriate way. If I am able to walk into the black smoke, I simply grasp my throat, stagger around a bit and then fall to the ground and lay still.
The long distance hiking subculture doesn't need additional self-induced dark clouds hanging over it.
I can't tell whether this post is an attempt at self-deprecating humor or not.
Well, my own personal observation is your aspirations are a wee bit high.
But just in case things get even worse on the AT before they get better,
May there will always be a few engineers about to make you all look good.
GODIVA
Godiva was a lady who through Coventry did ride,
To show to all the villagers her lovely bare white hide,
The most observant man on earth, an Engineer of course,
Was the only one who noticed that Godiva rode a horse.
She said, "I've come a long, long way and the man will go as far,
Who takes me off this God-damned horse and leads me to the bar.
The men who took her off the horse and stood her to a beer,
Were a bleary-eyed surveyor and a drunken Engineer.
My father was a miner on the upper malemute,
My mother was a hostess in a house of ill repute,
They kicked me out at a tender age and never shed a tear,
"Get out of here you son-of-a-bitch, go join the Engineers."
The Army and the Navy were out to have some fun,
Looking for a tavern where the firey liquors run,
All they found were empties, fur the Engineers had cone,
And traded all their instruments for gallon jugs of rum.
An Artsman and an Engineer once found a gallon can,
Said the Artsman, "Match me drink for drink, and prove that you're a man."
They drank three drinks, the Artsman died, his face was turning green,
The Engineer drank on and cried, "It's only gasoline"
I happened once upon a girl whose eyes were full of fire,
Her physical endowments would make your hands perspire,
To my great surprise, she said she had never been kissed,
For her boyfriend was a worn out Engineering Physicist.
A maiden and an Engineer were sitting in the park,
The Engineer was busy doing research in the dark,
His scientific method was a wonder to observe,
His left hand took the readings while his right hand traced the curves.
Now Venus was a statue made entirely of stone,
There's not a fig leaf on her, she is naked as a bone.
On seeing that her arms had gone, an Engineer discoursed,
"Of course the damn thing is broken, concrete should be reinforced."
Sir Francis Drake and all his ships sailed up to Calais Bay,
'Cause they had heared the Spanish rum fleet was headed up that way.
But the Engineers had beat them by a night and half a day.
And though they were tight as virgins, you could hear them say:
An Engineer once came to class so very drunk and late,
He was carrying a load that you would expect to ship by freight.
The only thing that held him up and kept him on his course,
Was the boundary conditions plus electromotive force.
Said the beauty to the Engineer, "My beer is getting warm.
Unless some more is brought to me, I'll retire to the dorm."
The Engineer said, "Go to hell, I'm not a money tree,
If you're so ******* thirsty, you can buy a beer for me"
My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole.
My brother runs a restaurant with some bedrooms in the rear,
But I'm the black sheep of the lot, 'cause I'm an Engineer.
Now Caesar went to Egypt at the age of fifty-three,
But Cleopatra's blood was red, her heart was warm and free,
And every night when Caesar said good-bye at one o'clock,
A Roman Engineer was waiting just around the block.
After reading Kama Sutra he tried position nine,
For proving his virility it truly was divine.
One day he happened on a girl who threw him on his rear,
For he was a feeble artsie while she was an Engineer.
Godiva was a lady well-endowed there was no doubt.
She never wore a stich of clothes, just wound her hair about,
The first man ever made her was an Engineer of course,
But on one beer an artsie queer once made Godiva's horse.
So now you've heard our story, and you know we're Engineers,
And like all hearty fellows, we drink our whiskey clear.
We drink to every fellow who comes from far and near,
Cause we're a hell-of-a hell-of-a hell-of-a-hell-of-a hell-of-an Engineer.
Chorus:
We are, we are, we are, we are, we are the Engineers,
We can, we can, we can, we can demolish forty beers,
Drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, and come along with us,
For we don't give a damn for any damn man who don't give a damn for us.
The Weasel
09-07-2007, 13:57
Umm...and this involves mooning the Cog in some unique, engineer-related, way? I'm not sure I follow, but then, I'm just
The Weasel
Who do you think built the damn COG?
I was only trying to make you all feel better by comparison.
If you don't like it, you might refer to the last line of the chorus.
The Weasel
09-07-2007, 14:09
Who do you think built the damn COG?
I was only trying to make you all feel better by comparison.
If you don't like it, you might refer to the last line of the chorus.
If engineers built the COG, why is it so ugly, inefficient and smoky?
Seems to me more likely it was built by, nah, won't say lawyers....
The Weasel
Old Grouse
09-07-2007, 14:47
"f engineers built the COG, why is it so ugly, inefficient and smoky?"
When the COG was built it was the absolute height of engineering achievement - akin to putting a man on the moon. As such, it deserves your respect, as do those who ride it.
Jack Tarlin
09-07-2007, 14:57
Nah, it wasn't built by lawyers.
For one thing, the cog costs about 60 bucks for a three-hour round trip. This works out to only around $20 per hour, so you know there's no way a lawyer planned this gambit.
Plus if lawyers were involved, the tracks wouldn't run so straight.
Footslogger
09-07-2007, 14:58
"f engineers built the COG, why is it so ugly, inefficient and smoky?"
When the COG was built it was the absolute height of engineering achievement - akin to putting a man on the moon. As such, it deserves your respect, as do those who ride it.
=====================================
Having ridden it now and having visited the museum I'd have to agree.
Pretty amazing stuff !!
'Slogger
Jack Tarlin
09-07-2007, 15:02
"Absolute height of engineeering achievement?"
Seems to me I can recall a British steamship that was launched in 1912 that was also described that way.
Didn't end too great.
Old Grouse
09-07-2007, 15:26
"Didn't end too great."
Point taken, and there have been lives lost in conjunction with the Cog, too. But it's been going 150 years or so, and when it was built in the 1860s coal power was the best thing going. Yes, it smoked. But in the following 1.5 centuries the Cog has taken thousands of people to the top of Mt. Washington, many of whom probably wouldn't have been able to hike up. Yes, there's the auto road, which was originally a stagecoach road. Lots of people think that's abhorrent, too.
I suppose they could change out the engine for battery power and have a fake smokestack puff out some non-toxic odor-free fake smoke.
The only time I rode the Cog I got a real kick out of it, as did my then 10 year old daughter and her friend and a lot of other children. No one mooned us, thankfully.
I think the Cog Railway is cute. And I like catching a whiff of coal smoke, too. Really. It reminds me of distant places and long ago.
Then there's the fact that the Cog Railway predates the AT...
Marta/Five-Leaf
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-07-2007, 15:48
So, did Marta moon the COG? :D
The Weasel
09-07-2007, 15:51
Nah, it wasn't built by lawyers.
For one thing, the cog costs about 60 bucks for a three-hour round trip. This works out to only around $20 per hour, so you know there's no way a lawyer planned this gambit.
Plus if lawyers were involved, the tracks wouldn't run so straight.
And it holds how many, at 60 a copy? Volume works, Jack.
The Weasel
Old Grouse
09-07-2007, 15:52
Yes it does rather predate the AT. To hear hikers complain about the COG reminds me of the exurbanites who now populate places like Kent and Salisbury, who, having moved to the country, now complain when they get a whiff of manure and start demanding that the remaining farmers diaper their Guernseys.
Footslogger
09-07-2007, 15:53
I think the Cog Railway is cute. And I like catching a whiff of coal smoke, too. Really. It reminds me of distant places and long ago.
Then there's the fact that the Cog Railway predates the AT...
Marta/Five-Leaf
=====================================
I agree. When I hiked over Mt Washington on my thru in 2003 I remember looking at it and thinking about my days as a youngster playing with trains that blew smoke from the engine stack. It almost seemed like a bit of a carnival ride. Never even gave a thought at the time to riding it. Then we went back to hike a section of the trail and had some time to kill. We drove around the backside of Mt Washington to the Cog Museum and read the history. Having both gone over Mt Washington by foot we were very curious what it would feel like to summit on the Cog. So ...we played "tourist" for the day. It was a HOOT getting near the summit and seeing hikers near the tracks. We were tempted to moon THEM !!
'Slogger
the goat
09-07-2007, 16:26
And it holds how many, at 60 a copy? Volume works, Jack.
The Weasel
"class action".
The Weasel
09-07-2007, 16:33
"class action".
Exactly.
The Weasel
Well, my own personal observation is your aspirations are a wee bit high.
But just in case things get even worse on the AT before they get better,
May there will always be a few engineers about to make you all look good.
GODIVA
Godiva was a lady who through Coventry did ride,
To show to all the villagers her lovely bare white hide,
The most observant man on earth, an Engineer of course,
Was the only one who noticed that Godiva rode a horse.
...
...
Chorus:
We are, we are, we are, we are, we are the Engineers,
We can, we can, we can, we can demolish forty beers,
Drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, and come along with us,
For we don't give a damn for any damn man who don't give a damn for us.
JAK that sure does take me back to listening to the pep band during hockey games at Michigan Tech during my four years in the great white north. There are some good verses on the MTU pep band website (http://www.fa.mtu.edu/~dawgs/Engineers.php). "No Beer" was also a good one.
7Sisters
09-07-2007, 17:15
=====================================
I agree. When I hiked over Mt Washington on my thru in 2003 I remember looking at it and thinking about my days as a youngster playing with trains that blew smoke from the engine stack. It almost seemed like a bit of a carnival ride. Never even gave a thought at the time to riding it. Then we went back to hike a section of the trail and had some time to kill. We drove around the backside of Mt Washington to the Cog Museum and read the history. Having both gone over Mt Washington by foot we were very curious what it would feel like to summit on the Cog. So ...we played "tourist" for the day. It was a HOOT getting near the summit and seeing hikers near the tracks. We were tempted to moon THEM !!
'Slogger
Now that would have been extremely funny to see the look on some of the hikers faces when somone riding the Cog mooned them. I chuckle at that thought. LOL
Have a good one footslogger - PS I'll be up on Lafayette tomorrow for a day hike with my daughter. Her first trip above tree line (17 months old). Maybe we should stop over by the Cog and do a family moonin' of hikers :)