View Full Version : web straps vs rope?
ivanputski
10-24-2005, 09:45
Has any tried substituting those 1 inch web straps with quick release cams for their ropes on your hammocks? I have a HH and was setting it up this weekend in the rain. It took a couple of tries to get it right. it just seemed like a lot of tieing and untieing. If I made a loop right at the end of the hammock and then used those straps it seems like adjustments would be easier. Anyone using something different besides the rope and knots?
Not exactly sure what quick release system you are asking about, but I used some as tie downs on a boat trailer and found them very difficult to release. I have rope on one end of a Speer hammock and webbing on the other. I am shifting to all webbing. It is less apt to chaffe the tree, less slip-prone. I usually use the wrap method which is like tying a boat to a cleat, but a clove hitch around the tree is a pretty fast way to tie-out. As you make one turn, hold the webbing a few inches out from the tree and tuck your next wrap through the opening and pull tight. Repeat, and you're done. Currently I use the rope through a homemade tree-hugger, but with webbing, the separate tree-hugger is not needed. If you think your tie out method is slow, just think about those poor souls who have to struggle with tent poles.
Jonas4321
10-25-2005, 01:37
I too was tired of tying (and adjusting) webbing to trees, so I made tree hugger-style straps with 1.5" webbing and side-release buckles (see Outdoor Wilderness Fabrics at http://www.owfinc.com/Hardware/phardware.asp#Side%20Release%20Buckles). I wrap the tree huggers twice or more around the tree, and make sure the buckles end up on the side of the tree opposite my hammock. They haven't come close to being stressed, since the friction of the webbing double-wrapped on the tree seems to take up most of the load, the buckles are not being overloaded.
Since I made my own Speer-type hammock, and I use a double sheet bend to attach the webbing to the hammock, I just made "hammock huggers" using 4' sections of 1" webbing, doubled over and tied to the hammock fabric - this leaves a loop of webbing on each end the hammock.
Between the webbing loop on the hammock and the tree hugger, I use some Technora-core T-100 rope from Oyster Bay Marine (www.obmc.com (http://www.obmc.com)). The 1/8" stuff has a breaking strength of something like 1100 lbs and nearly non-existant stretch. It's expensive (35 cents a foot), but well worth it. New England Ropes makes it.
With this combo, it's really easy to tie and adjust the hammock and the heights of the tree huggers, it's all pretty lightweight, and I feel secure that it's not going to fail on me in the middle of the night.
Experiment!
flyfisher
10-25-2005, 11:46
Has any tried substituting those 1 inch web straps with quick release cams for their ropes on your hammocks? I have a HH and was setting it up this weekend in the rain. It took a couple of tries to get it right. it just seemed like a lot of tieing and untieing. If I made a loop right at the end of the hammock and then used those straps it seems like adjustments would be easier. Anyone using something different besides the rope and knots?
I also find it difficult to use the tree huggers, yet I like the way they do not roll down the tree or put undue pressure on the tree bark in one line. It works very well to use 15 feet of 1 inch webbing on each end of the hammock and to tie it with one of the Speer type knots:
http://www.imrisk.com/hammock/improvedknot.htm
http://www.imrisk.com/hammock/speerknot.htm
Or, instead use 1/4 to 3/8 inch hollow yellow polypro rope (a la Youngblood) the same way. The hollow rope flattens against the tree, spreading the weight and keeping the rope from rolliing down the tree. This has a slight weight and bulk advantage over webbing.
Each knot takes about 30 seconds to tie, so the time investment is not unreasonable.
ivanputski
10-25-2005, 15:29
What I was thinking of using are some straps I have for my kayak to secure it to a car, NRS brand. They are 1 inch web with a slide through cam. You just pull the strap through to tighten and then push in on the cam to release. I was going to just tie a loop in the rope right at the end of the hammock, run the strap through the loop and around the tree. I would not use the tree huggers. I do like the idea of adjusting the cam so it is behind the tree. It sounds like it would be more secure that way.:-?
Has anyone tried something like this? If it works I would cut off the excess rope and not use the tree huggers so I do not think that the weight cost/savings would be the deciding factor.
Footslogger
10-25-2005, 15:40
Has any tried substituting those 1 inch web straps with quick release cams for their ropes on your hammocks? I have a HH and was setting it up this weekend in the rain. It took a couple of tries to get it right. it just seemed like a lot of tieing and untieing. If I made a loop right at the end of the hammock and then used those straps it seems like adjustments would be easier. Anyone using something different besides the rope and knots?========================================
Been using a version of that approach for several years now. Even shared it with Tom Hennessey but he's committed to his "knot". I have a high load metal ring at each end of the rope and thread that through the webbing that I have wrapped around the tree. All I have to do to adjust tension is tight the webbing. Makes set up, and especially take down, a lot easier and faster.
'Slogger
Footslogger,
That sounds interesting. Can you describe it a little more or put up some pics or drawings? Thanks.
Footslogger
10-25-2005, 16:04
Footslogger,
That sounds interesting. Can you describe it a little more or put up some pics or drawings? Thanks.========================================
I've never photographed it but I'll try and explain it more clearly. I bought 2 - one inch metal loops (200 lb load). I take the gray line coming from each end of the hammock and tie it off to those 2 loops. Next, I thread my 1" nylon webbing through those loops and then attach them to trees at both ends. The nylon webbing I use has plastic buckles sewn into the ends and it is approximately 4' long. I generally wrap it around the trees twice before pulling the loose end of the webbing through the buckles. For "fine tuning" and optimum tension all I do is tighted down the webbing around the tree at one or both ends of the hammock.
To take the hammock down in the morning all I do is loosen the straps and remove them from the trees. On rare occasion the two trees I'm using are a lot further apart and I have to re-tie the line to the metal loops before attaching the hammock to the webbing but most often I don't have to do that.
Hope that helps. One of these days I'll have to take some photos of the set-up and post them here. In the meantime I hope that makes it a bit more clear.
'Slogger
Footslogger,
Thanks for the description. Are the plastic buckles like ladder locks on a backpack strap? I'm wondering if a double ring like on belt buckles would work.
I can't decide if I'm drawn more to the romance of knot tying or the convenience of some type of buckle system.
Just Jeff
10-26-2005, 23:58
Someone on hammockcamping used the double-ring system and said it works fine. I forget who it was, but I think pics are in the hammockcamping gallery.
I'm trying to figure out a way to use a prussik knot instead of buckles. That would make for simple adjustments without the extra weight and bulk of webbing and buckles. All the ways I've thought of so far are either inconvenient or require a full-strength biner, though.
Footslogger
10-27-2005, 12:48
Footslogger,
Thanks for the description. Are the plastic buckles like ladder locks on a backpack strap? I'm wondering if a double ring like on belt buckles would work.
I can't decide if I'm drawn more to the romance of knot tying or the convenience of some type of buckle system.===========================================
Yes ...they are ladder lock buckles sewn in with a bar tack stitch. Not sure about the double rings. Only reason I went with the was it was easier to tie the knots.
I'm all about convenience when it comes to setting up camp - no romance.
'Slogger
I'm trying to figure out a way to use a prussik knot instead of buckles. That would make for simple adjustments without the extra weight and bulk of webbing and buckles. All the ways I've thought of so far are either inconvenient or require a full-strength biner, though.
That's what I was going to suggest--a couple of wire-gate carabiners from a gear shop. These are worth the couple of extra ounces for people who don't do well with knots or who find that they have to readjust alot. They're faster-tying, more secure, and cause less wear on webbing as well (nice for car camping, backyard testing, etcetera).
Doug Frost
If using just biners, how do you adjust the rope tension? You'd have to use a knot, wouldn't you? That's why I like the idea of the double rings or ladder-lock (although that plastic scares me).
Just Jeff
10-28-2005, 14:06
I used a biner to clip my huggers around the tree, then just tied a "double slip knot" from the cord to the biner. Held find and took me all of 2 seconds to tie.
Ray Garlington has a great way to tie up using a regular old shoestring knot...it's on his website.
Doing some insulation testing on the river this weekend, I took my kayak straps with me because the two best trees on the small island I camp on are really big. Each strap's gotta be twelve or fifteen feet long and has a metal cam buckle on one end.
Boy, did I get spoiled using those. I find myself often retying the HH figure-eight, usually because of settling after I first sit on the hammock. It was heaven to be able to just get up and pull a strap instead.
I'd love to find a system like this that was light and strong. I like Footslogger's set-up a lot, but I'm not sure I'd trust a plastic buckle to keep my backside off the pointy rocks all night.
I wouldn't trust a tautline hitch by itself either, but I'm wondering about tying one, doing all the adjusting, then finishing it off to hold for the night. Still involves tying knots, but not quite as much.
Anyone tried something like this? Is it too hard to untie in the morning? I've used a slipped tautline in the past for guy lines, but I wonder if the hammock pressure would make even that a pain to get undone.
johnny quest
11-01-2005, 17:50
i wish some of you folks would include a photo or rough drawing, something. im not a smart man, and i just cant visualize what your doing!
Johnny,
Not sure if I'm illustrating the right point, but here you go. The blue line is the tree hugger, the red line goes to the hammock. The black square is a buckle. Could be anything, like Footslogger's ladderlock (like your backpack shoulder strap adjusts with) or my cam buckle (push the tab to loosen, pull to tighten), or a double ring (like on nylon belts).
To make adjustments to the tightness of the line, just pull it tighter or use the buckle to back it off. No more tying of knots each time.
johnny quest
11-01-2005, 18:34
thanks! now i get it. and my first question is: if you dont wrap the treehugger around the tree several times how do you avoid slippage down the trunk?
The tension of the line and the bark-to-strap friction are enough. People have said they slipped down when tying off to poles or other really smooth stuff, but I haven't tried that yet. I've never had the slightest problem with trees, even very smooth-barked ones.
When I was out this weekend, there was a huge gap, probably three feet from the side of the tree to where the strap met the hammock rope, and it was fine. It's actually nice because you can very easily move the straps up and down the tree.
It's one of those things that seems really sketchy at first, but once you've done it a few times, you never worry about it again.