View Full Version : Tarps in heavy rain.
I'm a car camper and I really want to convert to backpacking. I tried a camping hammock but I couldn't sleep a wink. I was thinking about trying a tarp but I have a question. How do you stay dry in heavy rain situations where the ground starts accumulating water?
JoeHiker
10-29-2005, 13:54
You need to pick ground where the water is not going to pool
What hammock did you try?
You need to pick ground where the water is not going to pool
What hammock did you try?
I tried a HH and a Speer. I liked the Speer better but I still couldn't sleep. I used the Speer 8.5 with the PeaPod and top blanket. I returned everything but now I'm getting second thoughts. Maybe I just needed to practice until I get used to it? I was thinking about getting an eagles nest double and leaving it setup in my backyard so I can get accustomed to it. It's only around $59 bucks and it looks real comfortable. I really liked the hammock concept up until the point where I couldn't sleep! :)
i have slept in very heavy rains under a tarp in my hammock,i cant sleep on the ground now after using a hammock all the time:cool: neo
i have slept in very heavy rains under a tarp in my hammock,i cant sleep on the ground now after using a hammock all the time:cool: neo
I'm going to try this again, dammit! :)
I'm on my way to buy an eagles nest double hammock. I'm going to rig it up in my backyard. I have enough combinations of stuff (sleeping bags, pads, comforters) to keep myself warm and test to see if I can get accustomed to it. It would be too heavy (not the hammock, the other stuff) for backpacking but good for a test .
My wife thinks I've lost it!
peter_pan
10-29-2005, 15:07
Why get a double? Single is wide enough for most folk.... Seems like extra weight.
Pan
Why get a double? Single is wide enough for most folk.... Seems like extra weight.
Pan
Because I'm having trouble getting comfortable. I need all the help I can get.
well, this is the place to find it!i've never heard of anyone who couldn't sleep comfortably in a hammock, short of medical reasons (locked joints/back, etc.) we had one recent poster who couldn't sleep, but i think it has more to do with the strangeness of being off the ground or swaying, and i'm sure he'll overcome it...we'll do all we can to help you. and welcome back to the hanging crowd!
I'm a car camper and I really want to convert to backpacking. I tried a camping hammock but I couldn't sleep a wink. I was thinking about trying a tarp but I have a question. How do you stay dry in heavy rain situations where the ground starts accumulating water?
If I understand what you're after, we may have a lot in common. I don't like hammocks either, although for different reasons, and I generally sleep on the ground under a tarp.
Like JoeHiker said above, you have to tarp in an area with good drainage, so water will not pool under your tarp. You have to do this with a tent, too, to stay dry. Keep the "eaves" of the tarp low to the ground, so water running off the edge doesn't splash when it hits the ground, and the wind is less likely to drive rain under the tarp edge.
I've been in tents that leaked, but I have never gotten myself or my gear wet under my tarp.
PS: I tried to get used to a hammock on a half a dozen trips, but I just don't like em.
fiddlehead
10-31-2005, 13:48
in response to the original question: location, location, location! Also, I use Tyvek and cut it a little bigger than me to curve it up underneath me on the edges so that in a really heavy rain, the bag stays dry. I've never been wet in my sil-shelter and i've been in some heavy rains. (i didn't set it up at the gathering this year though, THAT would have been a good test of any gear. I think we got 12" that night someone said! )
well, this is the place to find it!i've never heard of anyone who couldn't sleep comfortably in a hammock, short of medical reasons (locked joints/back, etc.) we had one recent poster who couldn't sleep, but i think it has more to do with the strangeness of being off the ground or swaying, and i'm sure he'll overcome it...we'll do all we can to help you. and welcome back to the hanging crowd!
I just got an eagle's nest double hammock and I'm going to leave it setup in the backyard. I'm going to try reading in it every night to see if I can get accustomed to it.
I'm thinking the most comfortable setup is a "flat" underquilt with a top blanket. I tried a wrap around underquilt (the Speer PeaPod) but I'm not totally sold on having the underquilt go all the way around the hammock. On the other hand I'm not sure a flat underquilt like a JRB Nest with a top blanket would be warm enough (I'm trying to get down to 30 degrees).
I'm trying to simulate an underquilt with stuff I already have so I won't have to return anything. I felt guilty returning Ed Speer's hammock, he was very helpful with me on the phone.
If I understand what you're after, we may have a lot in common. I don't like hammocks either, although for different reasons, and I generally sleep on the ground under a tarp.
I think hammocks have lots of advantages but if I can't sleep ...
Like JoeHiker said above, you have to tarp in an area with good drainage, so water will not pool under your tarp.
How can you tell if an area has good drainage?
i will reluctantly agree... it's not any good if you can't sleep... but i'll say that definately doesn't apply to me... i can read for about 2 minutes before i'm zonked... puts me to sleep very quickly... i'm sorry you're having trouble with it... are you a back, side, or stomach sleeper? stomach, i can understand... side, you should go out like a light... back, you might have a problem with a leg hyperextending (resolved by putting something under your knees, like a pack or some clothes).
I was thinking about trying a tarp but I have a question. How do you stay dry in heavy rain situations where the ground starts accumulating water?
When you are using a tarp, location is a bigger issue that when using a tent or hammock. When using a tarp in the rain you must pick your ground more carefully so that you have better drainage and you have to also watch which direction the wind is coming from.
In a hammock or tent you these problems are minimized.
In the end the tarp is lighter but gives you less protection. It's a trade off, less weight for less protection.
Happy Hallowene
Panzer
smokymtnsteve
10-31-2005, 18:42
jist liek ole Horace Kephart sayed.
"the more U carry in yore head the less U have to carry on yore back"
tarps are like that...U can get plenty of protection using a tarp..but U have to have the know how tucked away in yore head.
Just Jeff
10-31-2005, 18:59
There are several tarping sites on the web - you should get enough info to stay dry with a quick search.
Otherwise, I hear Jardine's tarp book is pretty good.
I just got an eagle's nest double hammock and I'm going to leave it setup in the backyard. I'm going to try reading in it every night to see if I can get accustomed to it.
[...]
I'm trying to simulate an underquilt with stuff I already have so I won't have to return anything. I felt guilty returning Ed Speer's hammock, he was very helpful with me on the phone.
If you want to try laying off-axis for flatter comfort, tie the Double rather loosely (hanging straps/line set at a steeper angle). The extra width of the fabric will also flap about loosely, however; but the quilt will tend to hold it open.
I'm still a little vague on what the specific problem is though... Discomfort? Feeling odd hanging off the ground in a sack? What?
Doug Frost
I think hammocks have lots of advantages but if I can't sleep ...
How can you tell if an area has good drainage?
If you can't sleep in a hammock, then it has no advantages at all, right?
Puddles form in low spots. Dirt surfaces are trouble. Grass absorbs rain pretty good, so do leaves, so don't set up on bare soil. I think established campsites are generally worse than virgin campsites. Look for a little rise in ground.
I may have developed an intuitive sense for well drained sites by setting up in poorly drained sites when I was young and foolish. Now that I'm old and foolish, I rarely make that mistake.
I'm still a little vague on what the specific problem is though... Discomfort? Feeling odd hanging off the ground in a sack? What?
Doug Frost
Hey, you're not the only one. I'm trying to figure it out myself! :)
I think the biggest problem is the difficulty in moving around. If some material doubles up underneath me and I don't want to sleep on a lump I have to go through Houdini-like manuevers to fix it. When I first climb in everything is discombobulated. My shirt is twisted half around, my sleeping bag is screwed up, etc. It takes me 20 minutes just to sort everything out. That's why I think the best setup for me is an underquilt with a top blanket. Its easier to move around with nothing under you.
Hammocks seem like a great idea and for some (many?) they work well, but alas they're not for everyone. Folks who toss and turn a lot probably wouldn't get much sleep in them. If you normally sleep on your side(s), or in a kind of fetal position, some hammocks aren't well suited for that.
But they sure are worth checking out to see if you are one who can tolerate them. To just lie in one and get the feel of it, venues like Trail Days, The Gathering, or a Ruck are good opportunities. To actually test-drive one in the woods, I don't know of anyone who rents them so I guess you'd have to buy one and make sure there is a liberal return policy.
Hey, you're not the only one. I'm trying to figure it out myself! :)
I think the biggest problem is the difficulty in moving around. If some material doubles up underneath me and I don't want to sleep on a lump I have to go through Houdini-like manuevers to fix it. When I first climb in everything is discombobulated. My shirt is twisted half around, my sleeping bag is screwed up, etc. It takes me 20 minutes just to sort everything out. That's why I think the best setup for me is an underquilt with a top blanket. Its easier to move around with nothing under you.
my 11yr old daughter is a 'thrasher'... she has a hard time sleeping in a speer-type hammock, and prefers her little tent... says there's more room to move around in, and she can spread her stuff out inside... i don't know if that 'cradling' is something you can learn to like if you don't already... all i know is that i drop off almost immediately, and love how it forms around me...
I was reading up on TarpTents and I noticed that they come with a sewn in floor that can be rigged "bathtub" style. This seems like it would really help keep you dry if the ground got wet. Is this true?
justusryans
11-02-2005, 17:26
I was reading up on TarpTents and I noticed that they come with a sewn in floor that can be rigged "bathtub" style. This seems like it would really help keep you dry if the ground got wet. Is this true?
We have a Shires Cloudburst TarpTent with the bathtub floor. It works great as long as you don't set it up in a low spot. I still use a ground sheet though.
We have a Shires Cloudburst TarpTent with the bathtub floor. It works great as long as you don't set it up in a low spot. I still use a ground sheet though.
Is it possible to rig a bathtub floor with a groundsheet? Since siltarps are so light I was wondering how an oversized tarp (maybe 8x10) would work with a groundsheet compared to the Cloudburst. Obviously I wouldnt have bug protection but I'm not sure if I need it.
justusryans
11-02-2005, 21:01
It's sounds like a great idea, not sure how to go about it though.
I think the biggest problem is the difficulty in moving around. If some material doubles up underneath me and I don't want to sleep on a lump I have to go through Houdini-like manuevers to fix it. When I first climb in everything is discombobulated. My shirt is twisted half around, my sleeping bag is screwed up, etc. It takes me 20 minutes just to sort everything out. That's why I think the best setup for me is an underquilt with a top blanket. Its easier to move around with nothing under you.
Ah, yes I understand... One of the reasons I got an SPE from Ed Speer was to manage that sort of problem with cold weather padding.
There is a fuss-factor to be worked through--you have to get things sorted out for your particular habits and whatnot. Just keep at it and make sure one way or the other. You might end up using a hammock just in the summer months like some folks do.
Doug Frost
I am a thrasher and an extremely cold sleeper. I own both the HH and the Speer with all the extra stuff you can get with them. They are both excellent products but I do not get a good nights sleep in them and I do not want to carry all the extra stuff it takes for me to stay warm. This past summer I swiched to a tarptent (6 Moon Designs Lunar Solo) I switched from a Thermarest to a Down Filled Air Mattress and I use my WM Highlite unzipped like a quilt. This setup works GREAT for me. The 2.5" of padding in the DAM allows me to thrash around in comfort..using the bag unzipped like a quilt keeps me from sleeping too hot or too cold..the tarp tent has stood up to some of the hurricane winds that have reached North Georgia mountains this year. The weight of this rig is 24oz for the tarp tent including stakes (tent can be pitched with treking pole or tied off to branch) 23 oz for the DAM and 16 oz for the bag. I was very surprised to discover that the Dam provides an excellent framesheet for my pack..I just fold it 4 times and put a small amount of air in it. I do miss my afternoon naps in the hammock and I espically miss the large tarp from the Speer when it rains. This winter I am testdriving the tarp/bivy combination.
I am a thrasher and an extremely cold sleeper. I own both the HH and the Speer with all the extra stuff you can get with them. They are both excellent products but I do not get a good nights sleep in them and I do not want to carry all the extra stuff it takes for me to stay warm. This past summer I swiched to a tarptent (6 Moon Designs Lunar Solo) I switched from a Thermarest to a Down Filled Air Mattress and I use my WM Highlite unzipped like a quilt. This setup works GREAT for me. The 2.5" of padding in the DAM allows me to thrash around in comfort..using the bag unzipped like a quilt keeps me from sleeping too hot or too cold..the tarp tent has stood up to some of the hurricane winds that have reached North Georgia mountains this year. The weight of this rig is 24oz for the tarp tent including stakes (tent can be pitched with treking pole or tied off to branch) 23 oz for the DAM and 16 oz for the bag. I was very surprised to discover that the Dam provides an excellent framesheet for my pack..I just fold it 4 times and put a small amount of air in it. I do miss my afternoon naps in the hammock and I espically miss the large tarp from the Speer when it rains. This winter I am testdriving the tarp/bivy combination.
Thrasher is a good term. That's me. I've just about given up with the hammock. I've been trying it in my backyard every night this week. I'm leaning towards a Squall 2 Tarptent and a Big Agnes Lost Ranger with an insulated air core in the sleeve. Anyone have any comments on that combination?