Speaking strictly from a temperature standpoint-How does CC pads compare to an underquilt? I have a homemade SPE that I can use either with one pad or two. I have thought about getting an underquilt but if the temperature benefits is roughly the same I may just stick with the pads. Thanks.

reh1966

People here seem to do very well with each for three seasons. You'll see plenty of posts on both getting down to 30 or 20 comfortably.

I prefer the underquilt over the pad for more than just the temps. I like not having to fight a pad in the hammock, the breathability, and the lower bulk in my pack. Underquilts are obviously pricier, but you can save some money by making your own if you're handy with a needle.

Lots of people do just fine with the CCF, though, of course. If that's what you're used to and you like it, I'd suggest you try just adding more layers and see how that goes. If it's warm enough, you're all set. If not, you can start looking at other solutions like underquilts.

Patrick pretty much said it. For a given weight, you can probably get warmer with a CCF pad. But you'll definitely pay the price in bulk, and IMO you'll pay a price in comfort, too...though even a CCF is still more comfortable than sleeping on the ground.

More detailed description of each on my page:
http://www.tothewoods.net/HammockCampingWarm.html

the pad works for me no problem:cool: neo

Speaking strictly from a temperature standpoint-How does CC pads compare to an underquilt? I have a homemade SPE that I can use either with one pad or two. I have thought about getting an underquilt but if the temperature benefits is roughly the same I may just stick with the pads. Thanks.

reh1966
What kind of temperatures are you talking about?

My rough guess on insulation is about 20F per 3/8" of ccf pads and about 20F per 1" for very breathable down (calendered light weight rip stop nylon with DWR) and that is for down draped on top of you. If it is sewn to the bottom of a hammock it will likely be more that 20F per 1" because the top layer is not compressing the down with its weight, likewise if it is suspended underneath you in an underquilt or hammock style blanket (ie Peapod) it will likely be less than 20F per 1" because of fit issues since you are fighting gravity by trying to pull it snug against you without compressing it too much while not introducing air gaps. When you restrict the breathability of the down insulation these numbers change and a down air mat (DAM) has much higher insulation per inch.

The kind of temperatures you are talking about influence this also because of potential air gaps with bottom suspended insulation. Above about 40F this isn't much, if any, issue but by the time you get to 20F I think it will be a significant issue. Not necessarily one you can't handle but certainly one you have to address. If you want to go below 20F, DAM's start looking very attractive, at these temperatures and below they likely offer the highest insulation per unit of weight and they pack small as well. Above 20F the weight versus insulation is arguable with probably not any one technique being a clear winner and this gets even closer above 40F.

I was involved with developing the SPE, how is your home made one working for you?

Youngblood

Just last night I slept out in my hammock at 20 deg. I used my hennessey backpack a sym with the JRB "nest" under me with a closed cell 38" pad between the hammock and nest. on top I used a JRB old rag. I was wearing bergeline long underwear and a pair of down booties and balaclava which was removed due to sweating. I swear by my JRB quilts. I am getting the no sniveler for christmas. I am carying my quilts to maine starting 100 days from today!!!

The SPE that I made works really good I think. It will keep the CCF pads in place so I don't have them trying to squirt out from under me. I have noticed that when I double the pads it does make me sleep higher in the hammock which was an initial concern but I think I am getting used to it now.

reh1966

What kind of temperatures are you talking about?

My rough guess on insulation is about 20F per 3/8" of ccf pads and about 20F per 1" for very breathable down (calendered light weight rip stop nylon with DWR) and that is for down draped on top of you. If it is sewn to the bottom of a hammock it will likely be more that 20F per 1" because the top layer is not compressing the down with its weight, likewise if it is suspended underneath you in an underquilt or hammock style blanket (ie Peapod) it will likely be less than 20F per 1" because of fit issues since you are fighting gravity by trying to pull it snug against you without compressing it too much while not introducing air gaps. When you restrict the breathability of the down insulation these numbers change and a down air mat (DAM) has much higher insulation per inch.

The kind of temperatures you are talking about influence this also because of potential air gaps with bottom suspended insulation. Above about 40F this isn't much, if any, issue but by the time you get to 20F I think it will be a significant issue. Not necessarily one you can't handle but certainly one you have to address. If you want to go below 20F, DAM's start looking very attractive, at these temperatures and below they likely offer the highest insulation per unit of weight and they pack small as well. Above 20F the weight versus insulation is arguable with probably not any one technique being a clear winner and this gets even closer above 40F.

I was involved with developing the SPE, how is your home made one working for you?

Youngblood

Patrick pretty much said it. For a given weight, you can probably get warmer with a CCF pad. But you'll definitely pay the price in bulk, ...
http://www.tothewoods.net/HammockCampingWarm.html

I know Richard makes synthetic quilts, so I'll welcome your input on compressability as well.

Call me a hammocking whiner, but I've been comparing synthetic vs. down. I have a JRB underquilt, and for comparison and cost, a Rayway kit quilt. Now, the JRB underquilt, if you've used one, needs no further explanation, it's outstanding. The Rayway kit quilt also has exceptional heat retention, but not wanting to squoosh the heck out of it, I stashed it in Ray Jardine's own stuff stack and the sucker took up over half my pack. I had by-standers feeling sorry for me, 'cause my pack was so big, and it only weighed 21 lbs!

Two directions to go now - stuff that synthetic quilt into a compression sack and scrunch it down to a manageable size, OR stop pussy-footin' around and spring for the JRB feathers.

My heart's goin' one way, and my concience is goin' the other. I'm hearin' "Follow the heart.":p

I'm new to Hammock Camping. Just bought a Hen asym, haven't even used it. Really, I'm not planning on using it until the spring. How much if any extra padding (underquilt, pads) do you guys think i'll need for early-mid may in pennsylvania?

Bogey - Which Richard are you talking about? Did you mean Patrick? KAQ and JRB are the only underquilt manufacturers I'm familiar with....I'd be happy to learn of a new one!

Synthetic vs down is always an issue. Down has greater compressiblility and better warmth for the weight, but synthetic is cheaper and works better when wet. It's just personal preference - if your pack has room for the Jardine and you don't mind the bulk, just keep it. Otherwise, spring for the JRB quilt...that way, when it gets colder, you can put both JRB quilts underneath and use the Jardine inside - that'll take you well below the 30F or so of the Nest.

If you know you're only gonna use it as a top quilt, you could also get a Nunatak or Feathered Friends quilt. The No Sniveler can also be worn, though.

Or, you can stuff the Jardine quilt into a compression sack with the understanding that it'll eventually wear out with that kind of treatment. When it does, spring for the down one.

In the interest of disclosure, I designed the Pack Cover Gear Hammock on the JRB website. I don't have any interest in their quilts other than as a satisfied customer, so I don't think it biases my opinion on hammock insulation...but there is an affiliation with the company.

Toeknee - how did you get that name?!

What insulation is needed depends on where you hike...what conditions do you need to be prepared for?

The JRB underquilt will get most people to ~30F or so...it works for me down to ~37 because I sleep cold. (www.jacksrbetter.com (http://www.jacksrbetter.com))

Patrick has said his underquilt is good to about 30F, too. (www.kickassquilts.com (http://www.kickassquilts.com))

A .5" or .75" CCF pad will get you to about that range for a lot cheaper...but it's bulkier and not as comfortable, IMO. If you do pads, I'd recommend a SPE (www.speerhammocks.com (http://www.speerhammocks.com)) to keep the hassle down. My Exped Downmat 7 is very comfortable in a homemade SPE, and it'll likely keep me warm well below freezing. At $120, it's quite a bit pricier than CCF but still cheaper than underquilts, and the bulk isn't bad at all.

Adding another pad or buying/making a thicker underquilt will take both options lower, but that's a baseline to start from. More details: www.tothewoods.net/HammockCampingWarm.html (http://www.tothewoods.net/HammockCampingWarm.html)

Toeknee = Tony (my name)

bogey,

Am I Richard?

I have a Ray-Way quilt also and like it a lot. As far as compressability, I carry mine in a pretty large stuff sack and let it fill my pack up. When my pack is full, the quilt can get jammed down and when it's emptier, the quilt can loft up more. This seems to work pretty well and means my quilt is only really compressed about half the time in the field.

Right you both are! I looked you up twice, so I'd have the right name , but for some reason I had "Richard" on the brain when I meant "Patrick" of KAQ.

Well, Just Jeff, then you may be happy to hear about a third underquilt manufacturer come January or so. I need to do something to suport my addiction for gear and backpacking completely across the country every summer (I live in Alaska) :) I'm thing about a couple new ideas combining the down from JRB with the connection system from patrick and a layering system that I'm kinda coming up with. I'm also hoping to offer my down system cheaper than JRB, so the college people like me can afford it. (not that JRB charges more than the quilts are worth, they are a lot of work, and those two have put a huge amount of dedication into their work, starting from nothing because there was no one before them, I at least get some people that have broken ground for me)

Not everything is in stone yet though... anything can happen

And go for the underquilts, they are more comfortatble.

Pink

Rock on! Keep us posted...

is anyone using the thermarest pads in their hammocks? it sounds like some kind of insulation is a must and the ccf pads seem to get mixed reviews. bulky and prone to collecting moisture if i read it right.

yes, i've used a thermarest... same bulk, same moisture on my back... the only nice thing is that it's slippery, and easier to move it around inside to get it positioned right... that's also it's drawback... it gets out from under you faster than a ccf pad...i use an underquilt now.

I tried a Thermarest a few nights and had the same issues. For weight and loft, CCF is hard to beat if you can work out moisture management. Thermarests pack smaller, so if bulk is more important than weight it might be a good plan.

Therm-a-Rest ProLite pads are also narrow enough that they do not provide any wrap-around insulation as a wider CCF pad would.