This is the pad, now in green, it is thin and light - Perfect for hammocks - especially my Clarks. I've rounded the corners to fit my hammock.

It is 72" x 27" x 3/8 -

Hope this helps. I've tested it down to 20* with a breeze...

looks like it might be open cell foam??

I just got the blue version (that is closed cell) at WallyWorld for $5.88 (everyday price)... Just passing on the fyi...

I bought the "blue" closed cell a few years ago for $9.95 at Target.
Yes, this green mat is open cell and I'm going to test it tonight, It is now 31*, suppose to get into the low 20's. I'll let you know... how it goes.

Is the closed cell design a better insulator than open? I would think it is but can anyone add or verify this?

I'll be testing with my new Christmas Land's End Silk thermals, SmartWool hiker socks (old) and my Mountain Hardware 2nd Dimension bag. I know, it doesn't seem to be a fair test because the 2nd Dimentsion is a 15* bag... But, the Clark hammock wraps around your shoulders and hips, compressing the bag taking some of the R rating away. Hey, also, the closed cell has a tachy feel to it, and the open cell is less tachy/sticky.
I'll have to test all this again when it gets below 20* some day. Providing it passes / works well tonight.

More later - Rob

I believe that's closed cell. Open cell is "smushy", will absorb water, and compresses easier. I have one of these pads and they're very good for hammocking because they're wider than the typical blue ones sold in REI or the like. I think mine, cut to fit, weighs 8 oz. Great insulation considering the cost, weight, durability, and option of going to ground.

what does one of those pads weight? Is there any weight savings over a 3/4 ridge rest?

what does one of those pads weight? Is there any weight savings over a 3/4 ridge rest?

it's a closed cell pad. I use them in a HH - the Target pad is a significant advantage in a hammock because the 27 inch width will wrap up and around the shoulder. I have a new one, full-sized, uncut, that weighs 11.5 ozs. Until I get the underquilt, this is what I use, alone, for bottom insulation in a hammock down to 40 degrees or so.

Steve

Anyone tried the Wal-Mart pad that looks and feels like the egg-crate Mt. Washington pad of yore? I saw one in the store the other day. It seemed a bit lighter than the standard blue pad, same dimensions, about $12.

-Mark

I agree - It is Closed Cell, you can tell by the appearance Closed Cell is shiny with almost a burnished look to it. Open cell is like a sponge and dull looking.
I have had one of those old open cell pads laminated to a closed cell pad about 2 inches thick and it works great for car camping or sleeping in the back of the truck, but it does absorb water something fierce!!

I was @ Target today & the box has closed cell printed right on it.

I tried their blue one in the past but took it back because it simply does not compare to evazote.

First, I would have thought that the closed cell was actualy the open and vise versa.

Thanks for the education!

I was on the cool side and it only got down to 31* I felt the cool on my back. The foam (closed cell green), I could feel the folds around my hips, more than I could on the blue open celled foam. I think the open cell has a higher R factor...? I was OK with the open celled foam at 20* last year.

Rob

They also have their own brand of hiking socks now. 4.99 for a pair that cost 13.99 at REI.

I tried their blue one in the past but took it back because it simply does not compare to evazote.

I agree that evazote is unmatched, at least with my experience as a ground pad. Where do you get your hammocking evazote? The only company I know that sells it is gossamergear.com, but it's in the 20" width. Owareusa.com sells a pad that I had assumed was evazote, but their website says it is plastizote. Anyone know the difference?

First, I would have thought that the closed cell was actualy the open and vise versa.

Thanks for the education!

I was on the cool side and it only got down to 31* I felt the cool on my back. The foam (closed cell green), I could feel the folds around my hips, more than I could on the blue open celled foam. I think the open cell has a higher R factor...? I was OK with the open celled foam at 20* last year.

Rob

Below 35-40 degrees you need more than a 3/8s pad....

Time to double up...R Factors are surprisingly consistent among each type of insulant ( ie CCF in this case) The thicker the pad the higher the R Factor...

Options include doubling up on pads, lot more bulk but and cheap...find a thicker pad, maybe just more bulk and some more expense... consider adding or switching to outer insulation such as a Pea Pod or under quilt, less bulk, better side coverage, breathable, less pad management hassles, possibly less weight when compared to multiple pads ... more comfortable...but more cost.

31 is not summer pad weather.

Pan

Rob said earlier he was using a Clark Hammock, I don't think he said which model but I assume it was the one with the six outside pockets and that he is getting a good portion of his insulation from them and was using the 3/8" pad to augment that at colder temperatures. I think all of the Clark Hammocks have some number of outside pockets and that outside pockets would be a problem for underquilts or peapods.

The wide pads that try to form a three dimensional shape in a hammock tend to buckle because they just can't get into that shape. Several techniques minimize that. One technique I saw was where someone described cutting darts along each side of the pad. Another technique we use with the Speer SPE(Segmented Pad Extender) is to use narrower 20" wide pads in a main sleeve and then put narrower pads or clothing into smaller sleeves on the sides of that to accomodate the extra width you need in a hammock. Both these techniques address the buckling by not having insulation in the area where it tends to severely fold and buckle. The gap from the darts or the seperation of the smaller side sleeves in the SPE tends to go away or is severely reduced when you lay in a hammock with it because of the curve it forms in a hammock.

Youngblood

From http://www.zotefoams-usa.com/products2.asp:

Plastazote® Foam
Plastazote® is a closed cell cross-linked polyethylene foam. A wide range of polymer combinations give increased stiffness, improved temperature resistance and improved moldability. Application areas include packaging, protective padding contact sports, automotive applications, health care and for construction.


Evazote® Foam
Evazote® is a closed cell cross-linked ethylene copolymer foam. Evazote® foams are tougher, more resilient and stronger than other foams and are used in a wide range of sports and leisure and footwear applications.

Other references say evazote is more resiliant/impact resistant than plastazote. Intuitively, this might make evazote a better ground pad but the feature shouldn't have any any advantage as a hammock pad. I use Oware's pad in my hammock and, despite its 1/4" thickness, it's been in the mid 20s before I felt coolness coming through the pad. I like the foam's stickiness and size...it doe not slip around in my Hennessy and the extra width cups the shoulders providing insulation and wind bloc on the sides. It's 60X40X1/4" and only weighs 7oz.

Last Spring I was backpacking with a hammock-less friend and spent the night on the ground (not much soil, lots of rock, some snow at an alpine lake). I folded the Oware taco-style and put an ancient Thermarest inside...it was the best combination of ground pads I've ever used...comfortable even when on my side, warm, and no slipping of the Thermarest.:clap

More info.

http://www.speerhammocks.com/Products/SPE.htm

I would be tempted to use Owares cut for my torso but leaving the 40 inch width.

I'd recommend an SPE if you're looking to avoid pad buckle. Darts are a cool a solution, but have more potential for gaps, I think. The SPE is also extremely versatile. You can stuff it with as much or little insulation as you need, including clothes in a pinch.

I use Oware's pad in my hammock and, despite its 1/4" thickness, it's been in the mid 20s before I felt coolness coming through the pad. I like the foam's stickiness and size...it doe not slip around in my Hennessy and the extra width cups the shoulders providing insulation and wind bloc on the sides. It's 60X40X1/4" and only weighs 7oz.

I must admit I am quite intrigued by the temperature you were able to reach. I almost puchased the Target pad, but was suprised at how squishy it was as compared to my evazote. I wonder if this contributes to people needing a thicker pad when not using a 'zote pad.

Can you expand on the rest of your sleeping setup? i.e were you fully clothed (specify fleece or compressible synthetic), were you fully zipped in a bag or just a quilt, etc.

Lastly, could you list the dimensions of the oware pad when rolled at 40" as well as at 20" (assuming you first fold in half). Does it take up a ton of pack space when inserted as a liner? I'm trying to get a sense for whether it would fit in or on my current pack.

It is interesting that, for the weight of the HH supershelter bottom shell, you can get 1/4" insulation plus the windblocking features of the shell.

Thanks!

johnthebaton--

All but one night in my hammock was spent without a bag or top cover. Hammock hanging on the trail, the lowest I've hit is about 26°. In a backyard experiment, I hit 22° but at that temp the cold came through the pad in about three hours and I bailed back into the house.

During the Spring and Fall, I clip a light fleece throw (Campmor) to the Oware pad. I'm not convinced it has much insulation value but it does seem to reduce condensation under the shoulders. Still, I'm debating whether the throw is worthwhile. The total weight of this pad combo is 21oz. You asked about the pad's folded dimension and that is the downside of the Oware pad. The Oware pad is bulky. When I first started using it I carried it folded and rolled on the outside of the pack as it probably measured close to 12" or more in diameter and 20" in length (rolled, but not folded, it's easy to get the diameter down to 4" or less). It wasn't a good solution but it was the only one I had at the time with the low volume pack I was using. But I now have a LuxuryLite pack and the Oware pad (folded) fits into one of the extra-large sized cylinders with plenty of room for the hammock as well. Besides, bulky as it is, the pad is a really good performer at 7oz.

In all my experiences, I was wearing insulated pants and jacket w/hood (synthetic Integral Designs Denali and Dolomitti, respectively). In the area where I do all my backpacking freezing temps can be experienced throughout the summer and I feel I have to be prepared for mid-20s during the Spring and Fall. Consequently, the jacket and pants are going to be carried during those early/late seasons anyway so I put them to dual use by incorporating them into my sleep system. The remainder of my sleep system is the typical collection of long underware (started with polys but currently use Smartwool 'cause I like the feel), wool socks and booties, balaclava, and fleece gloves. That was then. I've added some toys since.:D

After one, very toasty night of using a down mummy bag as a quilt in the hammock I decided that maybe I missed a top cover after all. Previously, I was 'OK' with the above system but with the bag as a cover I was so warm and comfy I didn't want to get up and slept late. So now I have a down Arc Alpinist and a pair of synthetic-insulated Bozeman Mountain Works Coccoon pants. The Arc and the Cocoon pants total about 26oz...the Denali pants, which are dropping out of my system, weigh about 19+oz. I expect to sleep much warmer/extend my low-temp range significantly for the net difference of plus 6-7oz (packing volume will be less too). But the pieces are new and I haven't done any backyard testing yet (the Arc, long underware, and balaclava, were perfectly comfortable on the ground at 40°).

One other change I want to test. I've cut a 20X30X3/8", 4oz piece of blue foam which can be slipped into the envelope formed by the Oware pad and the fleece throw. The stickiness of the pad and the restraint afforded by the throw keeps this extra foam piece in place. Given my temperature experiences to date, I expect this added piece of foam, which runs from the top of my shoulders to my rear, to extend the combo's range to below 20°. But this too is waiting for some cold nights to be matched with some personal motivation;) . My expectation is that if I think I need to carry this added foam piece it will probably be cold enough to have it serve dual use as a sit pad. But...

I've not done winter yet. I'm relatively new to Montana and just returned to backpacking after an extended absence. This period has also been my first experience with hammocks and solo backpacking. Winter hammock-hanging, by myself in Montana, is still low on my to-do list:o .

Although I consider myself a cold sleeper, this system has worked for me. But I suspect there's a lifestyle factor that impacts its success. I live in western Montana where we have temps considered cooler than the rest of the nation. We set the house temp about 10° lower than 'normal' people, and sleep with the windows open (and the heat off) from May to October. In other words, since coming to Montana from south Texas I have easily and gratefully adapted to the cold. When I sleep on the trail in freezing temps the drop doesn't seem as big as it used to...:sun

Everybody's experience is different...I like to start off with simple, light pieces and test 'em at home at temps expected on the trail before heading for the wilderness. I like sleeping in the cold but hate to be cold.:rolleyes:

FB