New Product Survey

[peter_pan]

OK… Time to survey the user community again.

Couple of years ago, as we were getting ready to offer the JRB Nest under quilt designed specifically for HH but adaptable to any hammock, we opened the design debate to the White blaze community in this thread, http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3925.

To date it remains the most read thread in the hammock camping forum with over 4200 reviews. The replies to this thread made several contributions to the JRB family of quilts and under quilts. Most notable was the design and creation of the No Sniveller Universal Quilt with the re-sealable head hole feature. Over time, the popularity of the No Sniveller has begun to rival the Nest. Recent product additions, the JRB Hood and Sleeves, provide even more utility for both quilts.

Jacks ‘R’ Better is considering a lightweight, two season version of the No Sniveller. Our initial thought is to create a non-baffled (sew through) quilt, filled with 800+ fill power down. Size wise, our preliminary thought is to keep it compatible with the rest of the JRB family of quilts, nominally 78 x 48 inches. Total weight should approach 14 oz. One option would be to create a two season set with the 14 oz. Shenandoah for under 28 oz. total weight for the two quilt set. The set would provide a light weight insulation solution for the milder weather hammocker, yet still provide 3-4 season capability when doubled up under the hammock while using a sleeping bag inside the hammock for top cover.

Here are some questions for the whiteblazers.

Color(s). A single color quilt can be made with 4 inches less material…Is black a good choice? Any other recommendations?

If you don’t care about a few grams of material, what two color option are preferred? Continue the JRB Green and Black? Other preferences?

One option we have been considering is to use Orange and Black, but make it reversible. Orange side out during hunting season for safety, otherwise the stealthy black side out?

Thickness. About 1.5 inches of thickness should get to that range but we are open to overstuffing or slight reduction. Any recommendations here? What temperature limit would you like to see achieved? Recognize that a quilt capable of handling low temperatures is heavier and could become too hot for summer use? If you could only afford one quilt, what thickness would you want? If you had multiple seasonal quilts what thicknesses would you like for each season?

Lighter weight material (0.85-0.9 oz nylon) used for the shell, is a possibility. It is, however, more expensive compared to 1.1oz ripstop nylon.

Cost is always worth a comment. This is where champagne tastes meet beer budgets. Feel free offer opinion, though it should relate to any recommendations you make.

Finally, is there any interest for a No Sniveller (light)? Or is that Snivelling?

Pan

[Just Jeff]

Olive drab and black. Or all olive drab. I'd be interested in the lighter material, too.

I always wondered why you didn't put a headhole in the Shenandoah - the NS is one of the best multi-use concepts I've seen. If I were choosing between a Shenandoah and the same quilt with a headhole, I'd pay a few extra $$ for the multi-use functionality.

Rather than making a blaze orange underquilt, why not make a Weather Shield from blaze orange eVent? Put a head hole in it and have a wp/b poncho/WS. Add some velcro and it'll also be an emergency bivy.

Also, I think offering a package deal with the ORM, NS/Nest and Shenandoah would be very versatile for all seasons.

[Kerosene]

I like the orange-side-out option, as I don't carry enough orange during hunting season.

Ideally this would work for spring/fall temperatures falling to 30-35F. It doesn't get that cold most of the time, but there's always the chance that it will dip down there in any one week.

I'm willing to pay a premium for lower weight that doesn't sacrifice comfort. The entire system needs to be highly usable, meaning easy to learn, easy to remember, reasonably easy to care for, easy to get ideal performance.

[peter_pan]

Olive drab and black. Or all olive drab. I'd be interested in the lighter material, too.

I always wondered why you didn't put a headhole in the Shenandoah - the NS is one of the best multi-use concepts I've seen. If I were choosing between a Shenandoah and the same quilt with a headhole, I'd pay a few extra $$ for the multi-use functionality.

Rather than making a blaze orange underquilt, why not make a Weather Shield from blaze orange eVent? Put a head hole in it and have a wp/b poncho/WS. Add some velcro and it'll also be an emergency bivy.

Also, I think offering a package deal with the ORM, NS/Nest and Shenandoah would be very versatile for all seasons.

Couple great points.

Design is not finalized but an under one pound No Sniveller light will be availabe in a month or so.... Mostly waiting to see the input from the field on this thread...cost should still be surprisingly low.

Good point on the discounts... JRB has had set discounts for the three and four season sets, to make the quilt more affordable to those making the full switch, from the begining... We will add your recommendation as a discounted, "JRB quilt for all seasons" package....Thanks for the suggestion.

Pan

[peter_pan]

I like the orange-side-out option, as I don't carry enough orange during hunting season.

Ideally this would work for spring/fall temperatures falling to 30-35F. It doesn't get that cold most of the time, but there's always the chance that it will dip down there in any one week.

I'm willing to pay a premium for lower weight that doesn't sacrifice comfort. The entire system needs to be highly usable, meaning easy to learn, easy to remember, reasonably easy to care for, easy to get ideal performance.

Kerosene,

We actually have two entirely different approaches in prototypes and testing that feature orange in a reversible quilts... one that is fully compatable ( interchangable, stackable etc) with the current family of JRB Quilts... expect similiar pricing.

Another approach, also in working prototype and current testing, that is larger, yet still incredibly light, very versitile and designed for more appeal for the ground dweller and provide a new capability for the hammock user.... expect competitive pricing.

Thanks for your thoughts... We value your input.

Pan

[weary]

.....Jacks ‘R’ Better is considering a lightweight, two season version of the No Sniveller. .....Color(s). A single color quilt can be made with 4 inches less material…Is black a good choice? Any other recommendations?.....
black flies love black, dark blue, dark red and other dark colors. One bright sunny June day, a hiking companion spread his dark blue sleeping bag out to dry in the sun. Within a few seconds all the flies in the area converged on it. I ate my lunch 50 yards away, mostly bug free.

Weary

[wentworth]

After seeing my partner's Shenandoah quilt in action, I think the only things that would better it would be a lighter fabric and a head hole.
I look forward to the new quilt.

[peter_pan]

After seeing my partner's Shenandoah quilt in action, I think the only things that would better it would be a lighter fabric and a head hole.
I look forward to the new quilt.

Wentworth,

The head hole is definately in the new design...

As too lighter material, it is scarce since Pertex went out of business... still looking for such and alternative...

Thanks for your input.

Pan

[peter_pan]

black flies love black, dark blue, dark red and other dark colors. One bright sunny June day, a hiking companion spread his dark blue sleeping bag out to dry in the sun. Within a few seconds all the flies in the area converged on it. I ate my lunch 50 yards away, mostly bug free.

Weary


Weary,

Thanks for the comment.... kinda hard not to use dark colors and still be reasonably subdued...

Any other color related discussion out there?

Pan

[Nameless]

In Maine this summer (hiked from Katahdin to Stratton) I found the black flies to be much more interested in bright colors than darker. At the time I had hot pink hair (bright blue now) and the flies went strait to my head and ripped it apart within about 10-15 mins. I had blood dripping down my hair. It took nearly a week to get it to feel any better and I am sure the top of my head is scared. I had to wear a bandana 24/7 the rest of the trip to protect my sensitive head.

Sorry for the unrelated rant, but I do believe you will be ok with darker colors. Mabey not really dark, i think a forest green would be nice...

Pink

[peter_pan]

The first of two planned prototype No Sniveller Lights is done...Hopefully Smee will get some pictures posted Sat or Sun...We did this one is all black...It is nominally 78 x 48, and is compatible with the entire family of JRB quilts... it comes in at 15.2 oz and stuffs to the size of a qt nalgene bottle...It lofts to 1.3..should be a good 45-50 degee quilt.

We are having a debate on fill options...JRB would like your to know preference... Yes, it will be 800+ pf Down...the issue is:

Keep it at 15 oz and stay at 1.3 inches of loft.

or

Add approximately 1 oz of down and take it to 1.5 inches of loft.

Remembering the goal is a summer quilt under a pound.

What are your recommendations?

Thanks for the input.

Pan

[Kerosene]

Overnight temperatures in the mountains can frequently drop into the 40's, even in the summer, so I'd probably go for the extra loft=extra warmth, since I also would likely leave extra insulation behind in the summer.

[Just Jeff]

I'd take the extra loft, but it might be worth offering it as an overstuff option for the really weight-conscious.

[wentworth]

Didn't Medicineman take his shenandoah blanket to near freezing point? I personally don't see the need to have the loft any greater in a summer quilt. You want to keep the distinction/ differences between this new quilt and the originals IMHO.

[hungryhowie]

Regarding color, I'd like to see an olive drab or coyote brown used on one side, and black used on the other. If one color is prefered, I'd rather see olive drab used on both sides. I really like Jeff's idea of offering the weathersheild in a blaze orange option (and the head hole turning it into a poncho is a good one as well).

Regarding fabric weight, I'm always a fan of lighter weight fabrics, and have made several quilts from sub-1oz/yd fabrics. Yes, they are more expensive, but the end result is usually ~2 ounces lighter. AYCE has mentioned that he has procured a new sub-1oz downproof taffeta that he believes to be superior to the old 0.8oz/yd ripstop in many ways. It may be worth checking into and perhaps even doing a joint venture buy to save costs (and get a preferred color). If you decide to use a sub-1oz fabric, I'd like to see all models available in it (either standard or as a build to order option).

-Howie

[Patrick]

I haven't been able to find brown breathable anywhere, but I'd love to get some if I can.

[peter_pan]

Wentworth and Just Jeff,

Thanks for the comments on the extra oz of down.... Smee thinks like Wentworth that 1.3 in of loft is fine for a summer quilt...I like the extra... Jeff has a great point on an overstuff option...

Generally we keep an inventory on all items, next day shipping is the JRB standard... We are getting to the point of too many quilt models/sizes... special orders are normally 10- 21 days to complete and sometimes impact regular production... we would prefer to optimize each model to reduce the special order impact.

I guess we could work this in reverse also...ie. make the No Sniveller Light at 16 oz, including an oz over stuff and 1.5 inches thick... and offer a 1.3 inch 15 oz model as special order for the gram counters who may be more inclined suffer the delay of special ordering.

Any thoughts on this approach?

[peter_pan]

Regarding color, I'd like to see an olive drab or coyote brown used on one side, and black used on the other. If one color is prefered, I'd rather see olive drab used on both sides. I really like Jeff's idea of offering the weathersheild in a blaze orange option (and the head hole turning it into a poncho is a good one as well).

Olive was our original color... we too like it...but it has not been available in the last 18 months now... not as popular with the big guys who drive the mills production runs I guess.

MP is still finding its way... Its fragile nature makes many cautious...it is best waffle pressure sealed vs sewn for waterproof integrity....The Weather Shield has only perimeter seams, thus no leak issues... A head hole poncho approach would put seams to leak in the center area... more importantly, the flappy nature of ponchos would subject the MP poncho to greater tear threats from bushes and sticks etc.

JRB does have a reversible orange and black item in proto type... expect and announcement in a couple of weeks.

[/QUOTE]

Regarding fabric weight, I'm always a fan of lighter weight fabrics, and have made several quilts from sub-1oz/yd fabrics. Yes, they are more expensive, but the end result is usually ~2 ounces lighter. AYCE has mentioned that he has procured a new sub-1oz downproof taffeta that he believes to be superior to the old 0.8oz/yd ripstop in many ways. It may be worth checking into and perhaps even doing a joint venture buy to save costs (and get a preferred color). If you decide to use a sub-1oz fabric, I'd like to see all models available in it (either standard or as a build to order option).

-Howie[/QUOTE]

Howie, thanks for the comment.

Pan

[neo]

you to guys a very talented,i just wish i had the money to buy your excellent gear,new new stuff looks excellent:cool: neo

[peter_pan]

Thanks for all the input... We named this model the stealth and split the difference on target loft at 1.4 inches...you can find info here http://www.jacksrbetter.com/index_files/Stealth.htm

We still have a couple of working ideas on the orange color issue...more later.

Pan

[River Runner]

Oh that is very tempting. I have been wanting to try a down underquilt, and thinking about one for my section hike of Georgia in mid-April, but I want to use my RidgeRest in case I would have to go to ground. I also have the Hennessy Hammock supershelter, which is only good to around 50. I'm thinking this new quilt would be great to use as extra insulation under the Hennessy underpad.

[Ridge]

Remember, bridges ice over because of the air flowing underneath, so do hammocks. This said, you need to realize that temps in the 4000-6000 ft elevations can get to freezing, even in summer. Winter you're talking single digit lows or lower. And, don't forget the wind chill factors. Always plan for the worst.

[River Runner]

Thanks Ridge. I've used my Hennessy down to 20 F. Then I used my 3/4 RidgeRest inside, the Hennessy Undercover and underpad, and a Ray-Way quilt underneath the underpad, wore mid-weight thermals, and was toasty warm. I'm planning on preparing for 20 F without having to wear extra clothes (other than the mid-weight thermals I plan to sleep in). The extra clothes I'll have along (insulated jacket, another mid-weight top, fleece pants, rain gear) will be my back-up if temperatures are colder. I'd like to save a few ounces over the Ray Way Quilt if I can keep warm enough at 20 F without it. So far, I've been warm at 50 F with either the RidgeRest 3/4 OR the Hennessy Supershelter undercover and underpad alone. Combining the two at 20 F with a light breeze I got cold toward morning - mainly my feet and hips/upper legs. So I need something extra to feel prepared. I'm thinking a light insulation layer for under the Hennessy Underpad in addition to the RidgeRest inside. I'm thinking this new product sounds interesting for that. With the safety margin of the synthetic underpad and a synthetic insulating jacket, this might fill that need.