MinnesotaSmith Update

[Mother's Finest]

Darwin again,

I love your crazy train post.....you hit the mark I do believe.

peace
mf

[Sly]

What's wrong with two gallons of water anyway? Even at work I go through a half to three-quarters of a gallon just sitting at my desk. For heaven's sake - it's been damn hot out there lately! If i had just walked several miles and had several more to go, I could probably go through three gallons!

Generally when it this hot you camel up and carry what you need to the next source, which in this case was 5 miles further. Had the "trail angel" not come by, MS would have had to make it to the next source. My point was (incorrect in this case since the water wasn't in disposible containers) if he had come across 2 gallons would he have taken it all or left some for the next hiker?

[6's and 7's]

this isnt an update forum. Where is he??? is he still going?

[Dances with Mice]

this isnt an update forum. Where is he??? is he still going?A blitz of political posts always follows in MS's wake: he posted yesterday. He recently crossed into New Jersey. Next stop will be Vernon, I believe.

[smokymtnsteve]

hope your enjoying your hike MS,,,miss arguing with U!

mayB we will see U up here next year!

[mweinstone]

how id love to trade places with you for a day minnisota smith. id hike the trail and you would paint walls.but alas,.. i am working to hike and that is good too. miss ya buddy. dont forget to drink discusting amounts of water!

[TOW]

I'm back!

And it is SO good to be back in the USA, where the rows between parking spaces at Wal-Mart are wider than major Irish highways.i know i'm late, but, welcome back kotter...........whoops, i meant DWM..........

[TOW]

too much fried chicken was brought out to earl shaffer. one time i ate a live frog for five dollars. when i was a kid i cared like a kid. now i have become a man,.... bla bla bla,.......excellent quote bro.......

[TOW]

As an aside, due to all the kindness and help I have been privileged to receive on my thru attempt thus far, I now feel duty-bound to reciprocate in a major way next year with being giving trail magic myself. I don't know how anyone can have an experience at all similiar to mine and not come to feel the same way.there it is there...............right on.............

[wabo]

M.Smith catches flack for stating his views or sharing his opinions from a conservative viewpoint? The Liberal views from the far left are not what I believe in either, So whats wrong with being a conservative? Most believe in the things I do, Less Taxes, Fewer Entitlements, Less Gov. in general, Less time in discussion and more action and getting the job done sooner, and keeping your rights such as the right to own a gun.

Go ahead Please enlighten me on my wrong way of thinking! Make me Laugh! M.Smith keep on hiking!

[Skyline]

M.Smith catches flack for stating his views or sharing his opinions from a conservative viewpoint? The Liberal views from the far left are not what I believe in either, So whats wrong with being a conservative? Most believe in the things I do, Less Taxes, Fewer Entitlements, Less Gov. in general, Less time in discussion and more action and getting the job done sooner, and keeping your rights such as the right to own a gun.

Go ahead Please enlighten me on my wrong way of thinking! Make me Laugh! M.Smith keep on hiking!


OK, since you asked...

MS' signature text here on WB goes far beyond the issues you mentioned, and frankly, he has the liberal/conservative thing very mixed up. That, and many of his rants on WB before and during his hike--even some of his shelter register entries this year--make him sound like he has more in common with the socially conservative viewpoints of the Taliban than that of freedom-loving, equality-minded Americans. Especially as it regards the role of women in society, the way he thinks they should behave and dress, his attitude towards gay citizens, and diatribes against various ethnic and immigrant groups.

Package all that with the way he would ask for help on here re: hiking, then argue with those who tried to help him, and it shouldn't be that surprising that MS has ratings that rival GWBush. :-)

Still, he deserves our applause for the actual hiking he's doing, and doing his way apparently.

[plydem]

Passing on a question from MS that I can't answer: A relative of his, a marathon runner but an inexperienced hiker, would like to join him for a week or so later this year. What would be a good section for them to walk? Suggestions? They need good access points on both ends of the section. Nice views would be great. The Whites might not be the place for a beginning hiker, so some other suggestions would be welcome.

It seems noone answered this post so I'll throw in my two cents. Although I only hiked maybe 40 miles of it, the Vermont section is very nice and has plenty of good views without being overly difficult (at least in the southern part). I'm not sure where MS is right now (this thread has degraded into other off-topic discussions, as usual) but if he is in NJ, he probably won't get to Vermont until late August. Weather should be cooler by then and there are plenty of good access points.

[Dances with Mice]

It seems noone answered this post so I'll throw in my two cents. Although I only hiked maybe 40 miles of it, the Vermont section is very nice and has plenty of good views ...and there are plenty of good access points.Thank you very much!

[T-Dubs]

So whats wrong with being a conservative? Most believe in the things I do, Less Taxes, Fewer Entitlements, Less Gov. in general, Less time in discussion and more action and getting the job done sooner, and keeping your rights such as the right to own a gun.Conservative? Less taxes and more spending. Reagan/Bush are responsible for $7 trillion dollars in national debt. That isn't conservative.Few entitlements? Other than SS, there is far more white collar welfare/corporate subsidies than any social program. Less gov'ment? Again, Reagan/Bush have seen more growth in government than any administration since WWII.In the '70, that do-nothing Congress met +/- 160 days. This Congress, last year, met a total of 76 days. Travel perks, 3 work days a week, junkets, a working staff and $160,000 salary makes that a pretty sweet job. Deregulation of business to allow the corruption of the enviroment may be the worst thing gwb has done. The arrogant Iraq fiasco doen't even come close. Read Kennedy's book 'Crimes Against Nature' for some perspective.The Conservative Agenda seems to be one of keeping people in fear (gays, guns, god) as a smoke screen for ecomonic gain. (Read 'What's the Matter with Kansas' for some perspective here). The Conservatives have held Congressional power since 1994. Only in election years do we hear anything about gay rights, flag burning, gun control, etc. Conservatives of late seem to be puppet masters rather than patriots.Tom

[the goat]

Conservative? Less taxes and more spending. Reagan/Bush are responsible for $7 trillion dollars in national debt. That isn't conservative.Few entitlements? Other than SS, there is far more white collar welfare/corporate subsidies than any social program. Less gov'ment? Again, Reagan/Bush have seen more growth in government than any administration since WWII.

uuhhh, don't you mean bush/cheney rather than reagan/bush?:confused:

[T-Dubs]

uuhhh, don't you mean bush/cheney rather than reagan/bush?:confused:

I was going back to the first darling of the Conservative party where RR only spent a deficit of about $2.8 trillion to expand government. The projections for bush/cheney are in the range of $4.6-5.8 trillion to make the government work better for all Americans.

Tom

[bfitz]

Well that only took a decade to pay off, and saved the world from the soviet evil empire to boot. Well worth it. I think saving the world from nazis, commies, islamists and the like is worth a bit of debt, right....?

[bfitz]

oops, not a debate thread, I'll see you on one of those....

[mweinstone]

hey minnisota smith. its 96 and awful in philadelphia. and you are still in everyones thaughts here at the wb. if the folks are using your thread as a chat room,...take it as meat. they hang out here cause you make it a comfortable place for us all. and you remind them how to speak freely. good job friend. walk a tenth for me sometime would ya?

[The Solemates]

hey minnisota smith. its 96 and awful in philadelphia.


105 here.

and my father just got back from iraq where it was around 120 during the day and 95 at night.

don't complain about what you call hot.

[Just Jeff]

Took this picture on the drive up to Redwoods National Park last weekend.

[The Solemates]

Took this picture on the drive up to Redwoods National Park last weekend.

wow.......

[Darwin again]

I stopped myself from jumping into the conservative-liberal fray. But that hot photo kind of speaks for itself: There's no such thing as global warming. :D And MS is a conservative. And give me more of that guvmint kool-aid...har har.:sun
Keep it in the sweet spot, MS!

[Skyline]

105 here.

and my father just got back from iraq where it was around 120 during the day and 95 at night.

don't complain about what you call hot.


But global warming is a figment of the Lefties' imagination.

[mweinstone]

dont worry, your not missing anything out here off trail. congrats for surviving the hottest july on record! hike on brother, hike on.

[MartyNJ]

Marty here in Vernon, NJ.

I'm not a hiker but I just gave a "Minnesota Smith" a ride from the side of the road here to the hostel in town. He seemed very ill and said he thinks he has lyme's disease. Said he's going to get some sleep and get help tomorrow. He told me about this forum so I thought I would check it out and give an update. I don't know what all the hoopla is about him, though.

Take care all,

Marty

[Skidsteer]

Marty here in Vernon, NJ.

I'm not a hiker but I just gave a "Minnesota Smith" a ride from the side of the road here to the hostel in town. He seemed very ill and said he thinks he has lyme's disease. Said he's going to get some sleep and get help tomorrow. He told me about this forum so I thought I would check it out and give an update. I don't know what all the hoopla is about him, though.

Take care all,

Marty

Thanks for the update, MartyNJ. And for helping out a hiker in need. Good on you!

[Dances with Mice]

He'd mentioned finding a tick, getting a rash in that area, and feeling generally wrung-out in his last call. I was hoping a lot of that was due to the heat. Let's see what the doctors say.

[minnesotasmith]

Thanks again for the ride when I needed one; I'd been there an hour with no luck. It took me all day to do the stretch from right before the former sod farm (where a family took me in for the night the night before) to the highway to Vernon. I'm not doing so great right now. A local urgent care place here in Vernon, PA where I am now is about to do some major business with me. Another hiker here with similiar symptoms told me he knows of about 5 thrus who've contracted Lyme so far this year.

[Alligator]

You a little feverish this morning? You're in NJ:) . Hope it's not serious.

[minnesotasmith]

IMO, less than 5% of Republicans in national office are truly conservative, e.g., as Repubs often were pre-1970. I don't know of a single Democrat one, to be sure. You'd have to look at people like Tom Tancredo or Ron Paul (U.S. Senators, I think) to find anything like even partial exceptions to that. I vote Constitution Party ( http://www.constitutionparty.com/ ) when I vote, BTW, and find myself in general basic agreement with writers like Claire Wolfe, Boston T. Party, and Thomas Chittum.

[minnesotasmith]

You a little feverish this morning? You're in NJ:) . Hope it's not serious.

I found myself taking repeated involuntary naps of 30 - 70 minutes atop large flat rocks or the larger foot bridges by the Trail yesterday, definitely a new occurence for me. Even slight hills are an act of will to climb as of recent days, with resulting terrible average daily mileage. I've had a bright red rash on a wrist that has come and gone twice since mid-PA. My appetite has gone to almost nothing, albeit part of that is becoming terribly tired of most hiker food other than beef jerky or chocolate. All I really want to do most of the time is lay down.

I've done the math, and I can't make Katahdin in a traditional fashion (non-flip-flop) at this rate of progress (about 1343 miles done, with 832 left to do). A flip-flop isn't IMO a realistic option in my situation, either, as NWIH can I hike the Whites or Maine in this condition. Right now, here's my program to make this thing work:

1) Get to a doc today and see what he can do for me. At the least, I expect to get put on the (cheap and low side-effect) antibiotics that usually knock out early-stage Lyme.

2) Push the veggies and milk while in towns even more, and improve my nutrititional situation.

3) Buy an alarm clock, and see if I can make my hiking day run from 0500 - 1300 hours, at least until the heat eases off. I've met a couple of hikers who do this, and I think it's worth trying.

[Alligator]

Those all sound like good options. Especially 3. It is freakin' hot out there. Could be heat exhaustion. I didn't have much of a lunch appetite when I was out in July. I'd recommend emergen C' if you're worried about nutrition. And Tastycakes for calories:), you're in the zone for those, but get a layer of protein in too.

It's probably too late, but for other readers, it is helpful to save the tick for diagnosis.

[Dances with Mice]

MS - I hope all works out well.

Also - check out post 762.

[minnesotasmith]

MS - I hope all works out well.

Also - check out post 762.

I've had a couple of hikers on the Trail tell me the same thing, to do this thing in S. VT. Since my cousin is likely to come up with my parents at the same time, I figure that'd be a good time for some major slackpacking with big mile days. I love seeing a big chunk of map get eaten up.:sun

[Skyline]

In these same conditions in '98, in Virginia, the hikers I was with and I decided to do what we called "Ten Before Ten." We'd get up about 3:30am, be hiking way before daybreak, and shoot for someplace with altitude, shade, or water. Then starting about 10am we'd try and siesta during the hottest part of the day, eat dinner, and about 7pm start hiking again to get in another five to eight miles. Once we got on that rhythm it worked OK until the heat wave broke...about two weeks later.

[weary]

I found myself taking repeated involuntary naps of 30 - 70 minutes atop large flat rocks or the larger foot bridges by the Trail yesterday, definitely a new occurence for me. Even slight hills are an act of will to climb as of recent days, with resulting terrible average daily mileage. I've had a bright red rash on a wrist that has come and gone twice since mid-PA. My appetite has gone to almost nothing, albeit part of that is becoming terribly tired of most hiker food other than beef jerky or chocolate. All I really want to do most of the time is lay down.

I've done the math, and I can't make Katahdin in a traditional fashion (non-flip-flop) at this rate of progress (about 1343 miles done, with 832 left to do). A flip-flop isn't IMO a realistic option in my situation, either, as NWIH can I hike the Whites or Maine in this condition. Right now, here's my program to make this thing work:

1) Get to a doc today and see what he can do for me. At the least, I expect to get put on the (cheap and low side-effect) antibiotics that usually knock out early-stage Lyme.

2) Push the veggies and milk while in towns even more, and improve my nutrititional situation.

3) Buy an alarm clock, and see if I can make my hiking day run from 0500 - 1300 hours, at least until the heat eases off. I've met a couple of hikers who do this, and I think it's worth trying.
I join those who are pulling for you to make it -- even though your political views are both silly and based mostly on myths.

Weary

[MOWGLI]

MS:

Get ye healed. You can still do this thing, but you'll have to get healthy. The toughest road lies ahead. Thankfully - its the prettiest too.

[Darwin again]

Lots of good advice here, Minnesota.
We're all pulliing for you...

Right now, try to stay focused on getting your strength back and getting some medical advice/diagnosis and let the future slip into the background. Once you're stronger again, your will to keep walking will fall back into place. Remember, if your body is sick, you mind will be playing the short term, instinctive "save me--stop hiking!" game with you. Stay in the present and get the rest you need and don't worry about tomorow or trail to be hiked...it will come soon enough.

It's beastly hot, and that alone would beat some folks. You're doing great, Luke. Seek comfort and let the challenges come and then let them go.
You will prevail.

Hike smart.
Darwin.

[plydem]

I've had a couple of hikers on the Trail tell me the same thing, to do this thing in S. VT. Since my cousin is likely to come up with my parents at the same time, I figure that'd be a good time for some major slackpacking with big mile days. I love seeing a big chunk of map get eaten up.:sun
Yeah, and that would make it easier on your non-hiking/backpacking cousin. Also, while your parents are waiting for you to finish each day, they can go shopping in Manchester Center or Bennington. Lots of good outlet shopping in Manchester Center.

[mweinstone]

dear minnisota. reading that post makes me upset. i dont want a tick to come between you and us and your dream.even if you do have lime desies, can you continue after meds and resr? and how is your money? ill be glad to send you a hundred bucks any damn time you say . and if you need a place to recover,....my house is your house. ill put you up anytime for any leangth of time. and remember ,.. this is your life now. i mean to say that getting sick can happen on the trail as well as getting well. so my advise is to hole up till you can continue. if you need anything at all. call me bro. matthew weinstone @ 215 668 0898. we need to hear from you asap as our lonly lives need your cheer in this hellish heat.godspeed skinny.

[minnesotasmith]

Here is the word from the doc whom I saw this afternoon:

1) I had blood and urine taken, plus a screening test for Lyme disease. I do NOT have Lyme, thank God.

2) The doc thinks I'm mainly physically exhausted and rundown, with some chronic mild dehydration thrown in. He wants me to take a week off, drinking vast quantities of Gatorade and the like. In his opinion, if I'm not loads better by then, he would want me to see somebody and do a full workup (thousands of bucks worth of testing) and probably end my hike.

3) I'm going to do rest and refit for three days and evaluate. I expect to push on after that. The extreme heat wave here should break by then, plus my liver should be in ecstasy over all the grocery-store vegetables/shellfish/marine fish/milk/organ meats I'll gorge on in the meantime. (Vernon is devoid of a modern buffet restaurant, sad to say, though it has an okay natural food store. The dollar store here is marginal except for carrying SHELF STABLE WHOLE GRAIN BREAD.)

4) I will try to ASAP get on the sleep schedule I want to be on for damage control vs. the heat. That will involve getting up for the day, fully rested, no later than 0300 each day.

5) I'm going to do a fairly serious pack check while I'm otherwise cooling my heels at the church hostel here. It won't suffice to satisfy Winton Porter, let alone Wolf or Brian Robinson (latter's apparent de facto motto, from what I've heard: "Bedding? Unexpected inclement weather clothing? First aid gear? Second water bottle in low-water trail sections? Who needs them?") , but it'll improve matters.

BTW, the pavilion here in Vernon at the fire station for free hiker stay is no more as of 4 months ago. However, they will let low-profile hikers tent for free at the picnic table (surface texture of which would do credit to a rough industrial grinding wheel) across the adjacent pond. I spent last night cowboy-camped there. They locked the outside bathroom sometime between midnight and 0300, though, so watch for that if you sleep there.


Well, I'm off to the grocery store 2 blocks away to buy about 4 gallons total of OJ, milk, Gatorade, tomato juice, etc.
=========================================

[Sly]

Well since you don't have Lyme's, pity party's over, drink two quarts, drop 30 pounds of pack weight and git hiking!

[minnesotasmith]

Lots of good advice here, Minnesota.
We're all pulliing for you...

Right now, try to stay focused on getting your strength back and getting some medical advice/diagnosis and let the future slip into the background. Once you're stronger again, your will to keep walking will fall back into place. Remember, if your body is sick, you mind will be playing the short term, instinctive "save me--stop hiking!" game with you. Stay in the present and get the rest you need and don't worry about tomorow or trail to be hiked...it will come soon enough.

It's beastly hot, and that alone would beat some folks. You're doing great, Luke. Seek comfort and let the challenges come and then let them go.
You will prevail.

Hike smart.
Darwin.

The past few days in particular, but almost every hiking day since around Bake Oven Knob in PA, have required a level of effort akin to my record days. It's rather a downer to expend that much willpower to only do a 7 - 9 mile day, especially when I compare what my maximum effort is accomplishing with what a straight-through-to-Katahdin hike mathematically requires. Only the prospect of the situation improving (along with seeing other, normally considerably-faster hikers blown fully off the Trail altogether for a few days by the same conditions) encourages me. Well, good wishes from people here and my family, not to mention all the Trail angels (such as the family that took me in just before the sod farm a couple of nights ago) do significantly help, too. How's the saying go? "Not everything important can be measured, and not everything that can be measured is important."

Okay, off to the store for real.

[mweinstone]

homer need gaytoraid and tommato and oj and milk. homer happy now. doctor tell homer not going to die. marge ,bart, lisa and the little one happy.homer go to doctor nick .

hello everybody1 my name is doctor nick

dangerously overhydrated individuals such as your self require massive whiskey infusions

remember,.. if it burns ,... its your window to dehydration!

im thinking dont worry.

you?

[minnesotasmith]

Thank you, all. I will contact each of you privately ASAP about this.

[bfitz]

Smith...I'm not one to advocate ridiculously lightweight packs n stuff, in fact when someone asks me to shake down their pack I usually start adding stuff like a frisbee or a chess board etc. but that pack of yours is a behemoth. You say you've lost 50 lbs...if you cut your pack down to that or less you might not even notice your pack at all...sit down and have a long talk with your knees, I'm sure they'll agree with me. Don't let stubborness or something like that be the thing that knocks you off the trail...adapt, survive, that's how it works.

-D

[Skidsteer]

I had blood and urine taken, plus a screening test for Lyme disease. I do NOT have Lyme, thank God.

Go back to the MD tomorrow and demand the full course of antibiotics. Then take them. No s***.

[bfitz]

.

Go back to the MD tomorrow and demand the full course of antibiotics. Then take them. No s***.
I don't know...that might make you sick unecessarily....

[Darwin again]

In the absence of concrete, definitive signs and symptoms and/or test results showing a need, antibiotics are a very bad idea.

Rest and gatorade up, MS.
Take more than three days off if you think you need to.
Chow down!

[minnesotasmith]

.

Go back to the MD tomorrow and demand the full course of antibiotics. Then take them. No s***.

Do you think that the Lyme screening test has a high rate of false negative results? Or, do you think that the Urgent Care doc-in-a-box I went to here is particularly trustworthy? I am aware that the antibiotics typically prescribed for Lyme patients are inexpensive and relatively low in side effects.

[Skidsteer]

Do you think that the Lyme screening test has a high rate of false negative results? Or, do you think that the Urgent Care doc-in-a-box I went to here is particularly trustworthy? I am aware that the antibiotics typically prescribed for Lyme patients are inexpensive and relatively low in side effects.

I think the test is unreliable. Here's one the many things that Orangebug has said on the subject. He's been to medical school.


The test is not all that reliable, and shouldn't be considered essential for diagnosis. See a doc, look for rashes, make sure you let the doc know your risk factors for Lyme disease - rather than jumping to conclusions.


IMO, the antibiotics are safe enough to take if you're in doubt. Especially when compared to the possible consequences of a false negative. Your call.

Do you have any other symptoms besides the rash, no appetite, and exhaustion?

[Lone Wolf]

Sounds like he's suffering from lackatangitis.

[minnesotasmith]

I think the test is unreliable. Here's one the many things that Orangebug has said on the subject. He's been to medical school.



IMO, the antibiotics are safe enough to take if you're in doubt. Especially when compared to the possible consequences of a false negative. Your call.

Do you have any other symptoms besides the rash, no appetite, and exhaustion?

I had some weird cramping in my hands for a few minutes one morning about 6 days ago. That's it as far as any symptoms I've heard about go.

[mweinstone]

UPI and reuters news agency are both reporting that as of yesterday the great locomotive this country has affectionatly dubbed minnisota smith came crashing to a halt yesterday in a small town someware along the northern appalachian trail.exsperts and medical technitions are assesing the problem and report no major permenent damage to the engine. dehydration and exsaustion apparently seiged up the massive internal gearing witch is responsible for carrying the beloved thru hiker all the way from georgia.some exsperts argue that a refitting is needed while others claim there is nothing wrong with the man from minnisota named smith. rest and infusions of various liquids will hopefully get this countrys most watched thru hiker prepared and repaired to continue this epic march witch has captivated the hearts of admierers such as mel gibson who reported having been actually celebrating smiths progress when he became too drunk to continue following the hike and switched to a less demanding hobbie of hateing jews.also reached for comment in the gaza strip yesterday was condolisa rice ,secratary general of these united states who commented that when we need to get out of this millitary conflict and return to american pastimes such as base ball and hiking. she will be attending a dedication ceromonie next week to name a section of the appalachian trail after an american thru hiking icon,minnisota smith .

[Dances with Mice]

Good morning, MS! Looks like a chance of rain today in Vernon then the high temps drop about 10 degrees for the next couple of days.

So while you've got some downtime....what's in your pack right now?

[Skidsteer]

Sounds like he's suffering from lackatangitis.

Maybe even before the hike started.

[Skidsteer]

I had some weird cramping in my hands for a few minutes one morning about 6 days ago. That's it as far as any symptoms I've heard about go.

Have you thought of getting the drugs while in town and carrying them with you just in case?

[minnesotasmith]

Sounds like he's suffering from lackatangitis.

*** is that? :rolleyes:

BTW, a trail angel is going to slackpack me the 1st day out of Vernon. Says the climb out of here sucks to some degree, with repeated sloped boulder scrambles and such.

[minnesotasmith]

Have you thought of getting the drugs while in town and carrying them with you just in case?

I've got a couple of M.D. friends, either of whom I could probably get to give me the prescription from afar. Sounds like I should seriously consider doing this, given the risk to my health (long- and short-term), as well as to my hike.

BTW, Matthewski, that piece you wrote about the economy screeching to a halt BC my hike is in some trouble due to my health issue was a scream.;) I'll give you a call later today.

[MOWGLI]

BTW, a trail angel is going to slackpack me the 1st day out of Vernon. Says the climb out of here sucks to some degree, with repeated sloped boulder scrambles and such.

The climb isn't all that bad - but could be a real PIA if you're feeling puny. It's steep in a few places but is over relatively quickly. You will notice that after Pennsylvania, you will start to see more & more climbs from here on in. Northern VA, Maryland and PA have a tendency to soften up the hiker. Once you hit Harriman State Park - you'll understand clearly what I'm talking about.

Speaking of Harriman, when you reach Arden Valley Road - turn right and walk down the road to the beach at Lake Tiorati. It's not more than .5 miles. There is a place to swim, get soda, and even a pay phone. I think there is also a machine to get some munchies. It's a great place for a respite from the summer heat.

[Lone Wolf]

*** is that? :rolleyes:

BTW, a trail angel is going to slackpack me the 1st day out of Vernon. Says the climb out of here sucks to some degree, with repeated sloped boulder scrambles and such.
Lack of sexual activity. At least with a member of the opposite sex.

[minnesotasmith]

Good morning, MS! Looks like a chance of rain today in Vernon then the high temps drop about 10 degrees for the next couple of days.

So while you've got some downtime....what's in your pack right now?

Cooking:
(1) ~1-L titanium pot (same one I've had all along)
1 Lexan spoon
1 alcohol stove (A/A)
(2) fuel bottles w/. 16-oz. capacity, normally in the 12-20 oz. range total fuel (going down to 1)
Lighters, matches (paring ahead)
A few plastic heat-resistant spoons/forks/knives (latter mainly for spreading PB)

Bedding/shelter:
Full-length Thermarest (the new, orange-upper-surface type)
Tyvek groundcloth (goes under tent when tenting, under Thermarest in shelters/cowboy camping)
Henry Shires tarptent
40-degree synthetic full-length sleeping bag from Neels (under 2 lbs., small)
--Note that I use my clothing bag as my pillow

Clothing typically worn:
1 short set thin gaiters
(Recent change vs. ticks/mosquitos, added when straps underneath disintegrated on NJ rocks in 1.5 days): 1 long (almost to knees) ultrathin summer gaiters, held down by being put under short gaiters
1 pair Dunham 12EEEE trailrunners
1 pair high-quality synthetic hiking socks (typically Bridgestone)
1 pair thin nylon shorts
1 pair synthetic hiker underwear
1 synthetic hiker shirt
1 nylon windbreaker unzipped, pulled fully open (UV, bugs, brush)
1 pair dollar-store cotton gloves (unless raining) (UV, bugs, brush, rocks, abrasion from hiking staff)
Nylon hat
2 thin regular cotton bandannas safety-pinned and stuck up under hat (UV, bugs)
Eyeglasses
Croakies glasses straps
A b**tload of 25% DEET on exposed leg areas, wrists, and everywhere above the collarbone

Clothing in pack:
1 shirt A/A
1 pair medium-length nylon shorts (actually a lined bathing suit)
2 pair socks A/A (in ziploc bags for water protection)
1 spare pair cotton gloves A/A (hard to find along trail; come apart w/. little warning)
1 pair thin synthetic gloves (for rainy days; probably getting mailed home, to get back just before White Mtns. with other winter gear)
1 rectangle of windbreaker-like material to use like bandannas during sustained heavy rain (going home like synth gloves just A/A)

[minnesotasmith]

Lack of sexual activity. At least with a member of the opposite sex.

Traditionally, I've heard that referred to as "lackanookie". Plenty of that affliction among male-thruhikers, I'm sure.:rolleyes:

[Skyline]

You bet the test for lyme is unreliable. Not sure why they bother. If you have reason to believe you've been infected--any just by being a thru-hiker you're already high-risk--I say go for the doxy.

[MOWGLI]

You bet the test for lyme is unreliable. Not sure why they bother. If you have reason to believe you've been infected--any just by being a thru-hiker you're already high-risk--I say go for the doxy.

The test is indeed unreliable. I know - my wife had/has long term lyme since '92 or so.

Regarding Doxycycline - one of the side effects any hiker needs to pay CLOSE attention to is increased sensitivity to sunlight. You need to cover up - use sunscreen - and stay out of the sun while you're on that stuff - or risk some serious burns.

[minnesotasmith]

Water treatment/transport/storage:
2 1-L Nalgenes (hold potable water while hiking)
1 1-qt. Gatorade bottle (A/A)
1 4-L (5 L if I'm careful in overfilling/moving it) nonsealable-top Platypus for hauling untreated water from water source to where I treat it (typically around camp); has problem with toppling over and spilling if not tied/on peg)
1 sealable Platypus-like water bag from Franzia wine box (for carrying extra untreated water when water source is unusually long distance from shelter)
1 small plastic funnel
50-100 coffee filters
2-3 sets of Aqua Mira
~6' piece of rope I found on street in Fontana to hold Platypus at convenient height

Lighting:
2 small LED headlamps
average 1-2 headlamps worth of spare batteries

Backpack:
Gregory Whitney (after Dana Bridger wouldn't hold up and Marmot stopped sending me new pack straps every 2.5 weeks)
Side pouch (called a "wet rib", I believe) from Dana pack to hold 1 Nalgene, lunch, map, Wingfoot book, & some Bodyglide/Dr. Burt's Res-Q

[minnesotasmith]

The test is indeed unreliable. I know - my wife had/has long term lyme since '92 or so.

Regarding Doxycycline - one of the side effects any hiker needs to pay CLOSE attention to is increased sensitivity to sunlight. You need to cover up - use sunscreen - and stay out of the sun while you're on that stuff - or risk some serious burns.

About 14" of my legs are all of me that are regularly exposed to the sun. If you've seen any pics of me hiking, you'd instantly see how that was.

[Darwin again]

Hey, MS.

I guess it's a toss up on the meds. Go with your gut...

I replaced the lame-o spaghetti strings that came with my gaiters with Kelty triptease cord -- I've needed to change it only once after about 800 miles using the Dunham shoes. You probably can't find it easily in the field, unless a trail angel has some, but I'm pretty sure I still have a bit here. If you want me to send you a couple of appropriately sized pieces, send me an e-mail and I'll get an envelope in the mail. Just give me an address!

darwin

[mrc237]

Gaiter hold down---get some velcro (adhesive back) one side on back of shoe - other side - inside gaiter lower back--reinforce with crazy glue

[mdionne]

i got heat exhaution at the md/pa border. it took days to settle in i just felt weaker and weaker. the easiest stretch of the trail turned out to be the hardest for me. i only realized it when one day i sat down after doing 8 miles and i looked down and i was sweating so much there was a huge pool of sweat gathering around my feet from dripping off my shorts. then the next night i got huge headaches and chills.

take a break and camel up.

i've seen medically verified lyme tick bites several times on people at work they will (every one i've seen has had) have a distinctive ring around the original bite. if there is no distinctive ring, it's probably just a rash or a spider bite. take the pills if you want but they may not help you any.

[mdionne]

Cooking:
(1) ~1-L titanium pot (same one I've had all along)
1 Lexan spoon
1 alcohol stove (A/A)
(2) fuel bottles w/. 16-oz. capacity, normally in the 12-20 oz. range total fuel (going down to 1)
Lighters, matches (paring ahead)
A few plastic heat-resistant spoons/forks/knives (latter mainly for spreading PB) Spread your peanut butter with the back side of your lexan spoon

Bedding/shelter:
Full-length Thermarest (the new, orange-upper-surface type) Get a ridge rest
Tyvek groundcloth (goes under tent when tenting, under Thermarest in shelters/cowboy camping) Do you really need this?
Henry Shires tarptent
40-degree synthetic full-length sleeping bag from Neels (under 2 lbs., small)
--Note that I use my clothing bag as my pillow

Clothing typically worn:
1 short set thin gaiters
(Recent change vs. ticks/mosquitos, added when straps underneath disintegrated on NJ rocks in 1.5 days): 1 long (almost to knees) ultrathin summer gaiters, held down by being put under short gaiters lose em[COLOR]
1 pair Dunham 12EEEE trailrunners
1 pair high-quality synthetic hiking socks (typically Bridgestone)
1 pair thin nylon shorts
1 pair synthetic hiker underwear
1 synthetic hiker shirt
1 nylon windbreaker unzipped, pulled fully open (UV, bugs, brush)
1 pair dollar-store cotton gloves (unless raining) (UV, bugs, brush, rocks, abrasion from hiking staff) [COLOR="darkorange"]What brush are you coming upon? Are you bushwhacking? Lose em.
Nylon hat
2 thin regular cotton bandannas safety-pinned and stuck up under hat (UV, bugs)
Eyeglasses
Croakies glasses straps
A b**tload of 25% DEET on exposed leg areas, wrists, and everywhere above the collarbone

Clothing in pack:
1 shirt A/A
1 pair medium-length nylon shorts (actually a lined bathing suit)
2 pair socks A/A (in ziploc bags for water protection)
1 spare pair cotton gloves A/A (hard to find along trail; come apart w/. little warning)
1 pair thin synthetic gloves (for rainy days; probably getting mailed home, to get back just before White Mtns. with other winter gear) Send em all home until the whites.
1 rectangle of windbreaker-like material to use like bandannas during sustained heavy rain (going home like synth gloves just A/A)

[Pacific Tortuga]

.

Go back to the MD tomorrow and demand the full course of antibiotics. Then take them. No s***.


Out in the desert of Lake Havasu City, AZ. we would start an IV of ringers lactate to offset heat and loss of fluids (blood) related problems. At the MDs office they can start a liter of RL then push the antibiotcs intravenously, do you think that might help ?

[mdionne]

Water treatment/transport/storage:
2 1-L Nalgenes (hold potable water while hiking)
1 1-qt. Gatorade bottle (A/A) Drop it in the donation recyclables at the store
1 4-L (5 L if I'm careful in overfilling/moving it) nonsealable-top Platypus for hauling untreated water from water source to where I treat it (typically around camp); has problem with toppling over and spilling if not tied/on peg)
1 sealable Platypus-like water bag from Franzia wine box (for carrying extra untreated water when water source is unusually long distance from shelter)
1 small plastic funnel :D
50-100 coffee filters :D
2-3 sets of Aqua Mira Bounce box 2 sets
~6' piece of rope I found on street in Fontana to hold Platypus at convenient height
You're a walking distillery!:D

Lighting:
2 small LED headlamps 2?
average 1-2 headlamps worth of spare batteries

Backpack:
Gregory Whitney (after Dana Bridger wouldn't hold up and Marmot stopped sending me new pack straps every 2.5 weeks)
Side pouch (called a "wet rib", I believe) from Dana pack to hold 1 Nalgene, lunch, map, Wingfoot book, & some Bodyglide/Dr. Burt's Res-Q

Now, I know you're probably gonna get all huffy about this so you can just take it or leave it!

[Skyline]

i got heat exhaution at the md/pa border. it took days to settle in i just felt weaker and weaker. the easiest stretch of the trail turned out to be the hardest for me. i only realized it when one day i sat down after doing 8 miles and i looked down and i was sweating so much there was a huge pool of sweat gathering around my feet from dripping off my shorts. then the next night i got huge headaches and chills.

take a break and camel up.

i've seen medically verified lyme tick bites several times on people at work they will (every one i've seen has had) have a distinctive ring around the original bite. if there is no distinctive ring, it's probably just a rash or a spider bite. take the pills if you want but they may not help you any.


OK this is only anecdotal but worth posting anyway. I know from speaking to other hikers my situation was/is not unique.

I've had the lyme test three times.

Once when I had the bullseye rash, test came back negative.

Once when I did not have the bullseye rash but had other symptoms, it came back positive.

And just this June, I had no rash but had the symptoms times ten--really sick--and the lyme disease test came back negative. But a two-week round of doxy and I was better.

IMHO relying on the bullseye rash being present as a marker for lyme is not smart. You can have it without the rash.

Also IMHO with the way long-distance hikers spend 8 to 15 hour days for weeks or months at a time trekking through grasses and other vegetation where you can be sure there are ticks, it's amazing we don't ALL have lyme disease. I guess the same thing could be said of trail maintainers, forestry workers, and farmers.

[minnesotasmith]

Gaiter hold down---get some velcro (adhesive back) one side on back of shoe - other side - inside gaiter lower back--reinforce with crazy glue

More detail on how this would work, please, mrc237?

================================================
Thank you for the generous offer of (yet more) help with my hike, Darwin. My long summer gaiters have thin elastic strips that are not detachable (and have already worn through, as I mentioned above). They're not like my short ones that have the standard grommeted holes for attaching easily-replaced expendable cords that run under one's footwear. I have at least one spare with me, and Neels is supposed be in the process of sending my family a few sets to have available for mail drops. The ones I have are the standard black ones that are wider than thick, but they certainly don't last 800 miles in my experience; several hundred miles is about the best so far.

BTW, my next resupply point will be Pawling, NY, using the PO there.

[Greentick18d]

Originally Posted by mdionne
...i've seen medically verified lyme tick bites several times on people at work they will (every one i've seen has had) have a distinctive ring around the original bite. if there is no distinctive ring, it's probably just a rash or a spider bite...

MS,

A word on the rash: It only occurs 75% of the time and shows up between 3 and 32 days. It IS considered the best "clinical" indicator of infection with lyme dz but 75% means that 1 in 4 people infected have no rash. I would not take that chance. The rest of the symptoms are vague flu-like. You get better after the first phase and most people forget about it. Unfortunately, the longer it goes on untreated the harder it is to cure.

In the ER if someone has exposure I test them and treat them anyways. In the service of uncle sam I have used and been on Doxy. The sun-sensitivity is going to be your major show stopper but I think you are mostly covered up anyhow (I've seen the pics).

Since you have plenty of risk factors if I was you, I would take it. Besides, if you sleep in any rodent infested shelters it should help you with leptospirosis, or rat-piss fever, found in their droppings.

[mweinstone]

dateline new jersy,...the last remaining fat cells belonging to minnisota smith held a breif 11 minuite press conference today in new jersey. a statement was read by the spokescell representing a league of cells about to meet a some say, incellmane death.

readers may recall earlier this month the belly of minnisota smith ,the appalachian trail long distance thru hiker currently in the headlines,..was involved in a shootout with state police.

it now seams there is a deffinate rift forming between the man and the fat.some exsperts even go so far as to suggest the recent dehydration and exsustion symptoms that brought the now near famouse thru hike to an abrupt halt in new jersey may be the work of fat loyalistos working in conjunction with " south of the mason dixon line compadreys" all reportedly in an effort to depose the newly elected head of the appalachian trails body of hikers.

it should be noted for the record that a widly reported rumor states that minnisota smith will continue thru hiking sometime monday morning.

and now we send you back to brent musburer in new york.

[mrc237]

Explaination of gator hold down Buy some velcro the kind that has adhesive backing. Cut 1'' sq attach one side to the rear of a shoe right above the heel reinforce adhesive with crazy glue before attaching. Attach the other side of the velcro to the insde rear bottom of your gaitor again using CG. When you put your gaitor on both halves of velcro should line up. No stirrups needed! Hopfully that explains it!

[minnesotasmith]

Originally Posted by mdionne
...i've seen medically verified lyme tick bites several times on people at work they will (every one i've seen has had) have a distinctive ring around the original bite. if there is no distinctive ring, it's probably just a rash or a spider bite...

MS,

A word on the rash: It only occurs 75% of the time and shows up between 3 and 32 days. It IS considered the best "clinical" indicator of infection with lyme dz but 75% means that 1 in 4 people infected have no rash. I would not take that chance. The rest of the symptoms are vague flu-like. You get better after the first phase and most people forget about it. Unfortunately, the longer it goes on untreated the harder it is to cure.

In the ER if someone has exposure I test them and treat them anyways. In the service of uncle sam I have used and been on Doxy. The sun-sensitivity is going to be your major show stopper but I think you are mostly covered up anyhow (I've seen the pics).

Since you have plenty of risk factors if I was you, I would take it. Besides, if you sleep in any rodent infested shelters it should help you with leptospirosis, or rat-piss fever, found in their droppings.

I'm a serious shelter weenie, using them the bulk of the time. I'm definitely on the list of thrus who get exposed to lepto, I'd say. Tomorrow, I'm going to my sources and get a prescription for doxy, if not cephalexin (like 6 weeks worth). The cost is minor compared with losing my thruhike, and I've had the latter antibiotic enough times over the years to know its side effects upon me are trivial.

[minnesotasmith]

I wanted to wait until Sunday, but the welcome mat is on the thin side at the hostel here for multiday stays, even with a doctor note. (One guy had a 102 degree fever two days in a row, and is in the same boat.) Well, at least I've managed to pack enough greens into me in the last 24 hours to make a rabbit envious and other hikers comment repeatedly.

[minnesotasmith]

Out in the desert of Lake Havasu City, AZ. we would start an IV of ringers lactate to offset heat and loss of fluids (blood) related problems. At the MDs office they can start a liter of RL then push the antibiotcs intravenously, do you think that might help ?

I've actually made the stuff when working in ethanol plant laboratories. It's used there for keeping yeast cells alive, while discouraging them from reproducing in order to do accurate microscope cell counts.

Since getting to the hostel here in Vernon, I've repeatedly gotten my hydration to the point that I was urinating voluminously every 20 minutes or more often. My kidneys are working fine, IF I give them enough to work with. For that reason, I'm considering adding a sealable 2-liter Platypus to my gear, so as to easily transport more treated water onto stretches where water is either far apart, or where a shelter isn't too far (like under 2 miles) from a municipal water source. Thanks for the idea, though; the guy herer with the 102 degree fever, and the chick hiker with the periodic pukes, both came close to getting rehydration IVs, I understand, so it's definitely a plausible concept.

[mweinstone]

minnisota smith called me last night and today i talked to him at leangth about various plans and needs. im sending him a care package to pawling if anyone else does i got the platapuss covered. will assemble and mail exspress insured tommorow. im including packs of electrolyte solution and platty patches in case of leaks.i will go to a gormay store and buy a can of octapuss and ill throw in some mula in the form of an unsigned moneyorder or maby ill be daring and put cash in a snickers .but since the post office cashes mo's ,maby ill do that.ill write a note of pep and keep it light and fast. of course there will be something freash like a pinnaple or cookies or both.


when great things happen,,,bad things follow. got a paycheck today for 1790.00 ,..my highest yet. got acall from my childhood sweetheart. shes moving back and we will see each other. ive loved her all my life. we were together from 16 to 23!

so im waiting for the sky to fall just about now. and oh yeah i am so so so happy minnisota smith is back.

that'll probubly be the straw.

[general]

minesotasmith,

are you collecting water from springs/creeks, or are you trying to rely on municipal water sources? why in the hell would you fill up your water containers and carry them 2mi to a shelter, which most likely has a reliable water source? your carrying a sht load of aquamira. are you using it? i don't get it. your carrying a bunch of weight at the hottest time of the year, and you don't know why you feel bad. no brainer there. Lone Wolf's words to me in 2000, when i wasn't feeling all that great were: "you're fkn starving. put some fat in your diet." get some olive oil and put it in everything. get a block cheese and carry it out of town (it'll last 3 or 4 days in the heat). when you go into town, eat meat, and lots of it.

[cannonball]

I don't know this MS guy but I have been following this thread for months. Some how I get the feeling that mr. ms is in need of "attention" as he has played most of the other cards he has held in his hand.

[Sly]

You don't think he's seriously going to listen to you general, do you? He's had solid advice from the beginning and failed to use it.

Look at his hike, it's bouncing from one trail angel to another, desperate for help and wearing out his welcome. Now, it's the trails to tough, the shelters are too far off, the water sources aren't good or close enough. If it's over .04mi off trail he ain't going to see it unless someone gives him a ride!

Worse is his "reckless willingness to level what took decades or longer to grow in public soil."

[general]

nah man, that guy is nuts.

[Hikerhead]

Yeah, you're just waisting your time with that.

[minnesotasmith]

On the water issue, it's not that rare for shelters not to have any. Plus, in the temperature and humidity conditions lately seen on the Trail where I am hiking, I can often drink water faster than I encounter it along the Trail. Do keep in mind that temps have been around 100 degrees F. lately, with humidity not far below that. Running out of water is NOT something to have happen in this weather; hiking when it's hot and humid is tough enough with plenty of water.

So, a couple of posters here think I'm either an attention whore, or constantly need trail angels just to be able to hike at all. Hm. I went all the way from Hiawassee to the NOC without resupplying, never doing over 8 miles in a day, if memory serves. I did Fontana to Standing Bear the same way, if you don't count a single meal in Gatlinburg (where I went only to make a phone call). I admit enjoying interacting with most hikers and near-Trail people, as long as they are relatively good-natured; they don't even have to be particularly interesting, as long as they are "real".

Too, trail magic is something I appreciate for the lift (morale as much as anything material), but I don't expect it. How many thruhikers generally turn it down?

Lastly, I am widely read and have seen or been a number of things or places many other hikers (especially the younger, e.g., under age 25) hikers generally have not. Most younger thruhikers (that I have gotten to halfway know) in my experience so far seem to be uncertain about certain aspects of life. Where I perceive it would be received well, and I believe I have something possibly useful in the way of information or an insight to share with such a hiker, I will take the time to share it. Of course, many lost souls are like the lead in "Cool Hand Luke", as described by one uniformed type: "Some men you just can't reach.". Everyone IMO has the right to go to h*ll in their own way, and on the Trail I mostly don't try to help those not yet prepared to hear anything different. I do frequently (during my thruhike attempt thus far) encounter people ready to listen to some unfamiliar data or paradigms, though, and I'll spend considerable time trying to help those people.

The liberals I meet usually do fall into the second category of the classic aphorism about conservative vs. being liberal: "If a man is not a liberal when he is young, he has no heart; if he is not a conservative when he is old, he has no brain.". Usually they have to either hit bottom in their own life in some way, or (much preferable for them) they sooner by chance read something that blows past all the PC BS. Atlas Shrugged, Animal Farm, Death of the West, The Gulag Archipelago, Death By Government, the failure of socialism/liberalism at Jamestown, The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam or the like will often do the trick, for those who actually still read (and have the ability to get through substantive books that aren't just echos of the public school/CNN/People Magazine/NY Times simplistic pap they're used to). Well, when they see that Yeats was prophetic for their own lives and town, I suppose most of them will start to "get it", but not all of them, not even then...

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of "Spiritus Mundi"
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

-- William Butler Yeats, "The Second Coming"

[minnesotasmith]

Worse is his "reckless willingness to level what took decades or longer to grow in public soil."

You don't think that when a cancerous tumor reaches a certain size that it should be considered acceptable and illegal for a surgeon to excise, do you?I'll happily see a poison ivy or thorn bush of any size or age crossing the Trail be cut down, since it never should have been there for a moment in the first place, a perfect metaphor for much in our civilization. Longevity does not convey legitimacy or logic upon a maladaptive or evil concept.

[Dances with Mice]

On the water issue...So you're feeling better?

[Heater]

You don't think that when a cancerous tumor reaches a certain size that it should be considered acceptable and illegal for a surgeon to excise, do you?I'll happily see a poison ivy or thorn bush of any size or age crossing the Trail be cut down, since it never should have been there for a moment in the first place, a perfect metaphor for much in our civilization. Longevity does not convey legitimacy or logic upon a maladaptive or evil concept.

And PAVING the ENTIRE southern third of the AT in Penn., as you suggested, will do what?

:-?

Totally unacceptable, IMO.

[minnesotasmith]

I've been pushing the fluids since I got to the hostel here. I've had decaf green tea, orange juice, milk, prune juice, tomato juice, pineapple juice, cold water, you name it, since I got here. I'm out of here in the morning. The Trail will be the real test, of course.

On another note: most of the under-age-30 hikers with sub-45-lb.-packs who started out in Georgia already slender are off the Trail, while I'm still at it, having only taken a short involuntary break dicated by health (and not getting so much as 3 miles away from the Trail to do it). There's some lesson there somewhere, I think.

[minnesotasmith]

And PAVING the ENTIRE southern third of the AT in Penn., as you suggested, will do what?

Totally unacceptable, IMO.

I'd really rather they just finish the Trail in the eastern half of PA. Speaking as someone who has hiked the majority of the AT this year, I can assure you that going by the apparent standards most of the AT clubs adhere to, eastern PA has 40+ miles of trail that fall below what non-PA trail clubs consider adequate trail.

================================================== ==

On another note, I have a major suspicion that this hostel (the one in Vernon, NJ) will be closed after this year. The top guy here is primarily concerned when he comes by with how many hikers are here, when they got here, when they are leaving, how much of a mess they make (even if they pick it up ASAP), and how much money they donate. How they are faring seems IMO of little or no interest to him. I believe that he perceives claims of illness or injury (even with a doctor's note) as primarily less-than-fully-legitimate ploys to stay too long for his taste.

[Hikerhead]

On another note: most of the under-age-30 hikers with sub-45-lb.-packs who started out in Georgia already slender are off the Trail, while I'm still at it, having only taken a short involuntary break dicated by health (and not getting so much as 3 miles away from the Trail to do it). There's some lesson there somewhere, I think.



That's because they've finished, at Katahdin. :banana

[Sly]

I'd really rather they just finish the Trail in the eastern half of PA. Speaking as someone who has hiked the majority of the AT this year, I can assure you that going by the apparent standards most of the AT clubs adhere to, eastern PA has 40+ miles of trail that fall below what non-PA trail clubs consider adequate trail.

Heh, wait til you get to NH and Maine. Rocks, roots and mud.

[minnesotasmith]

That's because they've finished, at Katahdin.

Aren't you familiar with the statistics on thruhiker ages and completion rates?

[minnesotasmith]

Heh, wait til you get to NH and Maine. Rocks, roots and mud.

The way I figure it, the Whites will often have such glorious views to compensate fully for everything unpleasant that happens there (other than perhaps the Appalachian Money Club's screwing thruhikers). Maine? By the time I get that far along, only broken bones or worse will serve as a personal issue to stop me. I'd eat nothing but Ramen and hike solely at night through Maine, if that was the price it cost me to get to Katahdin, once I get that close to finishing.

[Sly]

Aren't you familiar with the statistics on thruhiker ages and completion rates?

1 out of 5 finish from end to end. You have a breakdown? I'd say your odds are about the same as day one, maybe less, since lately you appear to behaving more "fun" at the computer.

[mweinstone]

you know who you are.

you sound like kids picking a fight. your arguments are easy to defeat with less brain than it takes to post my bad spelling weirdo comments. your so wrong that right called and said he misses the limelight. your so negative and so lacking in exspirence both with hiking and being human that positivity stopped by and asked if you were in charge.
dont you understand that the hostel is hostile to hikers? and dont you know anything about thirst prevention preparedness schedualing?
and claiming that minnisota smith is leaning on anyone or anything other than his awsom staff is ,.....well quite frankly,...fuccedup. pardon thefrench, but with my 9th grade education and having mostly lived like an idiot untill recently, even dumb old mat knows an honest hard working thru hiker on sight with no possibility of missreading the hiker for a poser. every seasoned hiker knowes his own kind. and we all know the fakes. they stick out in a crowd of such serious ,positive ,well meaning ,thrus such as the one and only minnisota smith.

[Lone Wolf]

I've been pushing the fluids since I got to the hostel here. I've had decaf green tea, orange juice, milk, prune juice, tomato juice, pineapple juice, cold water, you name it, since I got here. I'm out of here in the morning. The Trail will be the real test, of course.

On another note: most of the under-age-30 hikers with sub-45-lb.-packs who started out in Georgia already slender are off the Trail, while I'm still at it, having only taken a short involuntary break dicated by health (and not getting so much as 3 miles away from the Trail to do it). There's some lesson there somewhere, I think.


That's my boy!

[Dances with Mice]

The Trail will be the real test, of course.By midweek you'll be having highs in the mid-80's. Stay safe.

The week after you left I started planting the spring garden. That's all out, most of the summer garden is gone, and I'm planting the fall garden this weekend. Know what I'm saying?

[minnesotasmith]

1 out of 5 finish from end to end. You have a breakdown? I'd say your odds are about the same as day one, maybe less, since lately you appear to behaving more "fun" at the computer.

By the Maryland/PA state line, the odds of a NOBO thruhiker making it the rest of the way to Katahdin are far higher than when back in GA, something probably along the lines of >85%. Anyway, having the judgement to stop and fix a body issue when needed (when I'd rather be chewing up miles) doesn't speak badly of my chances IMO.

[mweinstone]

they have a postal officer their right? my book is lost at the moment and how long till pawling in miles from where minnisota smith is now please. thanx

[minnesotasmith]

they have a postal officer their right? my book is lost at the moment and how long till pawling in miles from where minnisota smith is now please. thanx

The Pawling, NY PO's zip code is 12564.

[mweinstone]

all the facts in order; thirst is a poor mechanisim. period. we;ve all learned this. by the time you feel thirst,...too late sucker. you loose. hike over. next!drink millitarily. drink like a suiside bommer rants. drink like you will die if you dont .like lone wolf drinks or wee willy. get the picture? never dont drink.

okay number two; in extream high activity sports,.. water dosnt do it.period. electrolights,salts,minerals,sodiums,potassiums,.b la bla bla bla bla. found in bannana and other well known easy to find sources.bag of bannana ,potasium shortage over. end of story.

three; things that make you die faster include well known dehydraters such as caffiene, alcohol, etc,...bla bla . you will need to have no brains cause this is a no brainer,....dont.

next;increase rest and decrease activity. easy on a thru hike. hike early and siesta mid burn and hike late and rest early. wala!

also;protien will not be craved for so force it. add crap to milk. eat meat near raw. do nuts each day even though there gross when its hot and them being oily. eat less bulk of a higher protein content and eat a little less overall.do not fart . hold it in. okay i think were done with mats homeade lesson.

[Alligator]

By the Maryland/PA state line, the odds of a NOBO thruhiker making it the rest of the way to Katahdin are far higher than when back in GA, something probably along the lines of >85%. Anyway, having the judgement to stop and fix a body issue when needed (when I'd rather be chewing up miles) doesn't speak badly of my chances IMO.

Data is taken from here.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851143/k.C36D/2000Milers_Facts_and_Statistics.htm

The 85% figure is in all likelihood too high. Assuming a neglible few drop after HF, the completion rates after that point are. 397/718=0.55, 384/687=0.56, 402/741=0.54, 370/661=0.56, 0.49. The average is 0.54 or 54%.

I'm still pulling for you though:cool: .

[Nean]

Haha, what a bunch of stuff!:eek: :rolleyes: ;) :D

[saimyoji]

all the facts in order; thirst is a poor mechanisim. period. we;ve all learned this. by the time you feel thirst,...too late sucker. you loose. hike over. next!drink millitarily. drink like a suiside bommer rants. drink like you will die if you dont .like lone wolf drinks or wee willy. get the picture? never dont drink.

okay number two; in extream high activity sports,.. water dosnt do it.period. electrolights,salts,minerals,sodiums,potassiums,.b la bla bla bla bla. found in bannana and other well known easy to find sources.bag of bannana ,potasium shortage over. end of story.

three; things that make you die faster include well known dehydraters such as caffiene, alcohol, etc,...bla bla . you will need to have no brains cause this is a no brainer,....dont.

next;increase rest and decrease activity. easy on a thru hike. hike early and siesta mid burn and hike late and rest early. wala!


Up to here you make some sense. My formal education causes me to balk at your caffeine comment, recent studies show it is not the diuretic it was once believed to be. Some people do find that it acts as a urinary/defacatory stimulant, though this is now believed to be Pavlovian, as in part of your morning routine. One point of caution: it is possible to drink too much water, in fact it can dilute electrolytic concentrations to the point where muscle failure is possible; heart muscle failure included (heart attack). Drinking too much can overstimulate kidneys, increasing the risk of associated diseases/medical conditions.



also;protien will not be craved for so force it. add crap to milk. eat meat near raw. do nuts each day even though there gross when its hot and them being oily. eat less bulk of a higher protein content and eat a little less overall.do not fart . hold it in. okay i think were done with mats homeade lesson.

Here you cross the line into obvious insanity. Please, if we ever hike together, inform me that you are holding your farts because you want to retain protein. I will buy you a toothbrush. :D

By your logic, MS should NOT SHAVE :eek: until the hair length is significant. Then he could trim down and EAT THE HAIR HE TRIMS. This would recycle the protein created by his body.

Eat meat near raw? Please.

Add crap to milk? Do you even know what milk is?

I usually enjoy reading your posts, but as this one is dangerous to a newb that may not realize you are missing a few marbles, I have to take you to task.

I look forward to your future humor. And please post pics of MS in full beard ready to trim, then eating it. Hey, he could add it to his milk. Or fry it up with some near raw meat. :D

[MOWGLI]

(other than perhaps the Appalachian Money Club's screwing thruhikers).

My oh my but you're selective! Turning into a Socialist are we? I guess capitalism is grand into YOU have to dip into your pocket. And you've already made your mind up about the AMC before you reach the Whites? What happened? Voice some of your political opinions at the Mohican Outdoor Center and got tossed?

[mdionne]

(other than perhaps the Appalachian Money Club's screwing thruhikers).

agreed, the free stay at the huts is really screwing the thruhikers:rolleyes:

a man with such high moral standards as yourself would never stay there, would you???:-?

[Darwin again]

Oh brother.
The opposite of capitalist is not socialist. I wish fewer folk were so knee-jerky on this subject...but everybody's a wanna-be Limbaughian, waiting to snap the hypocrite leg trap on anybody who dares to speak out on a topic. I hear oxycontin clarifies the reasoning processes...:rolleyes:

MS is a constitutional libertarian with right wing tendencies, near as I can figure. Plus, he's a hiker who likely resents facing high-dollar, generally exclusive boutique accomodations in the mountains at which he cannot stay unless he joins the happy koombuyah club and makes reservations or unless he displays subserviant, deferential behavior by becoming a servant to the paying class. It's good to be humble, but it's better to be wealthy. When I tented at Mizpah, I was told I could enter the money club hut after a certain hour in the evening if I liked, to fondle the books in the library. I didn't like, and I didn't bother. That doesn't make me an elitist, does it? I paid eight bucks for my tentsite and for the privilege of being told I was not really welcome up at the yuppy/clubby/big house by the cigar-chomping tent-plantation overseer. Does that make me a capitalist? If you don't roll over and submit to the AMC, you're not welcome in their pleasant dashing outing club world. Please be sure to label each other in the narrowest possible terms, like that detention monitor does to the kids in The Breakfast Club.

BTW, I wish MS would scrap that tortured metaphor of a signature line of his. American insurgents who would later be called revolutionaries, then even later were called founding fathers, uprooted and flattened a system of English control that had grown for decades in the public soil of North America. I guess that makes them hog-wild liberals? They had no need to conserve anything, because they were up to their rebel butts in natural resources. And can a river really be conserved? And can you conserve a lake but not its shores? Which furniture does the conservative conserve that the liberal does not? Lamps and chairs? End tables? Cat trees? Would a liberal conserve a water bed? "paintings & manuscripts, furniture & buildings, churches & liturgies" are all man-made cultural items, whereas the forests, rivers, lakes and shores are natural features. How about the fowles and fishes? Do only liberals conserve the WHALES? Huh? Would the conservatives nuke the gay whale? Or just shoot him in the face with a shotgun?

Which raises the question, does MS's seeming willingness to point out how the AMC screws thru hikers by offering to allow them to trade human dignity for food and shelter in a show of physical and psychological control consistent with that of wealthy elites through history, a system of class humiliation that has grow in public soil for centuries, make him a flaming liberal? (Origin of the word "liberal" is Middle English via Old French from the Latin liberalis, from liber 'free (man).' The original sense was [suitable for a free man,] hence [suitable for a gentleman] (one not tied to a trade), surviving in liberal arts.) I fear it does. Are the AMC huts considered private property in a capitalist sense, or are they, in effect, group property in a socialist sense?:-? I posit that the AMC hut system represents a [/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_economies"]mixed economy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_economies) and that MS is revolutionary in his protestations. He uses the word "screw," which astute readers will note carries an informal denotation as a prisoner's derogatory term for a prison guard or warden. There's also an archaic British usage, informal, for a mean of miserly person. The phrase to, "put the screws on" means to exert strong psychological pressure on someone so as to intimidate, coerce, browbeat, strongarm, bulldoze them into doing something. Like the dishes. In this case, it would appear that MS knows of what he speaks. When does a simple, voluntary "work for stay" "opportunity" become mere class and caste system reinforcement? I suspect MS suspects when.

Then there's this:

My formal education causes me to balk at your caffeine comment, recent studies show it is not the diuretic it was once believed to be.
What a load of bupkis. Caffeine is a central nervous system stimulant and a diuretic. Period. Studies will shown whatever the sponsors of those studies want them to show (http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/12/16/new-study-75-of-college-graduates-are-stupid/).

My rant here is done now.
Hopefully I've risen to this thread's required level of absurdity.
Cheers and peace, everyone...;)

[The Old Fhart]

Originally Posted by minnesotasmith
(other than perhaps the Appalachian Money Club's screwing thruhikers). You can't say that the AMC is screwing thruhikers. The huts are almost always full. This is no different than saying the Hanover Inn screws thruhikers because few stay there because of the price.

Its called the "free market economy" or "supply and demand". Sorry that your slanted education didn't cover the basics of Economics I. ;)

[minnesotasmith]

You can't say that the AMC is screwing thruhikers. The huts are almost always full. This is no different than saying the Hanover Inn screws thruhikers because few stay there because of the price.

Its called the "free market economy" or "supply and demand". Sorry that your slanted education didn't cover the basics of Economics I. ;)

So, where are the first-come free shelters every 8 miles or so in the Whites that virtually every other section of Trail has? (Possibly being one of two thruhikers allowed to sleep somewhere after all the weekenders are through using it, on occasion only hours after "thruhiker midnight" has come and gone, and after performing some manual labor at the end of a long hiking day for an organization the hiker might wish didn't even exist, is NOT up to shelter availability standards the rest of the Trail generally maintains.)

[general]

So, where are the first-come free shelters every 8 miles or so in the Whites that virtually every other section of Trail has? (Possibly being one of two thruhikers allowed to sleep somewhere after all the weekenders are through using it, on occasion only hours after "thruhiker midnight" has come and gone, and after performing some manual labor at the end of a long hiking day for an organization the hiker might wish didn't even exist, is NOT up to shelter availability standards the rest of the Trail generally maintains.)

then don't stay at them. bitching is useless, just don't stay there.

[minnesotasmith]

then don't stay at them. bitching is useless, just don't stay there.

Of course, longterm, getting the AMC tossed out of the ATC (and banned from having anything to do with the AT), and getting a normal club with normal Trail policies to take responsibility for that section of Trail is what's really needed.

Going by normal shelter use guidelines, a lone thruhiker should be able to walk into the Lake of the Clouds hut, say "groups of 5+ are supposed to tent. The paying guests (one group of 5+) and the croo (another one) need to go outside for the night NOW, and not come back in the hut again. (The guests will likely want immediate refunds from the croo, and that would be fair.)

[minnesotasmith]

What happened? Voice some of your political opinions at the Mohican Outdoor Center and got tossed?

I just got water there, had lunch, and tossed my trash in their dumpster (protected by an anti-bear electric fence, I might add). I pushed on to the YMCA camp that day. I did get to have a conversation with an Indian national while sitting on the bench between the water hose & the dumpspter, where I invited him to look up the Transparency International national corruption index next time he's on the Internet. :D

[minnesotasmith]

Physically, he's a very fit guy, with his body weight right where I'd say it needs to be. He kept up fine with all the thruhikers at the Billville obstacle course, when it was clear where to go next (not always the case for any participant). He looks like he'd be a heck of a hiker, if he just brought proper gear along with him when he hit the woods.

[minnesotasmith]

Oh brother.
The opposite of capitalist is not socialist.

Uh, yes it is. If you don't believe that someone has the right to the proceeds of their labor and/or investments (that means 100% of those wages and/or profits), and to control their property, you're a socialist. There is no "Third Way".

[Skyline]

Of course, longterm, getting the AMC tossed out of the ATC (and banned from having anything to do with the AT), and getting a normal club with normal Trail policies to take responsibility for that section of Trail is what's really needed.

Going by normal shelter use guidelines, a lone thruhiker should be able to walk into the Lake of the Clouds hut, say "groups of 5+ are supposed to tent. The paying guests (one group of 5+) and the croo (another one) need to go outside for the night NOW, and not come back in the hut again. (The guests will likely want immediate refunds from the croo, and that would be fair.)


I think the meds just kicked in.

These huts, whether you like them or not--and I'm mixed on that my ownself--are not run with the same hiker etiquette as typical little three-sided trail shelters. They don't even remotely resemble them in style or mode of operation. MS' scenario is sheer lunacy. If it were almost anyone else, I'd chock it up to someone trying to be humorous on White Blaze.

[Skyline]

Physically, he's a very fit guy, with his body weight right where I'd say it needs to be. He kept up fine with all the thruhikers at the Billville obstacle course, when it was clear where to go next (not always the case for any participant). He looks like he'd be a heck of a hiker, if he just brought proper gear along with him when he hit the woods.


Now I've seen everything on WB. MS critiquing Lone Wolf as a hiker.

Maybe MS should carry more water.

[MOWGLI]

Of course, longterm, getting the AMC tossed out of the ATC (and banned from having anything to do with the AT), and getting a normal club with normal Trail policies to take responsibility for that section of Trail is what's really needed.


Um, no. What is needed is a history lesson. The AMC and the trails that the AT uses through the WMNF pre-date the concept of the Appalachian Trail. And the AMC staff & volunteers do an exceptional job with trail maintenance in a heavily trodden area. What is needed IMO is some respect for the folks who maintain and build trail, and an understanding that the trail doesn't need to be altered to conform to anyone's expectations.

But I'm sure I can't convince you otherwise. After all, I've been there and you haven't. And if you don't stop typing and start hiking, that will always be the case. ;)

[Skidsteer]

:D
Now I've seen everything on WB. MS critiquing Lone Wolf as a hiker.

Maybe MS should carry more water.

Not 'Lone Wolf'..... 'Wolf 23000'.

'Wolf 23000' didn't buy MS dinner at Dot's, so he's fair game....:D

[weary]

Oh brother.
The opposite of capitalist is not socialist.

Uh, yes it is. If you don't believe that someone has the right to the proceeds of their labor and/or investments (that means 100% of those wages and/or profits), and to control their property, you're a socialist. There is no "Third Way".
All societies I've ever run across or heard about strike me as "Third Way" societies.

Certainly this country doesn't have a Capitalist system, unless you define capitalism as the ability to bribe polititians to give businesses taxpayer dollars.

I'm truly fascinated by the idea of capitalism -- so facinated that I think this country should try it sometime. What an experiment that would be. Just think we could save billions annually by taking businesses off the welfare rolls.

I do see a bit of illogic in MS's chastising of AMC for their hut policies. MS seems to be advocating that AMC become even more socialistic. After all AMC built the huts. One would think that under a capitalistic system they would have the right to run them anyway they want to.

Weary

[Darwin again]

Uh, not it's not.
MS, is not communism the opposite of capitalism?

Marx considered socialism to be a transitional state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism, did he not?

I'm also thinking weary is right and most societies are, in practice, Third Way. Narrow textbook theory can never cover the range of realities that actual life presents.

The most striking example of socialism in American society is the US military's "dependent" community, which presents as nearly perfect socialism as there can be: medical care, education, travel, groceries, BXs and PXs, movie theaters, chow halls (Not judging here, just pointing out -- For those with an interest in such things, the documentary film called Brats: Our Journey Home (http://www.bratsourjourneyhome.com/index.htm) looks very cool.) Then there's the US Postal Service, farm subsidies, tax breaks (a popular euphemism is "incentives") for corporations and the wealthy; "Stimulus packages." Also tax "rebates" like that $300 or so check that most every one of us got shortly after W ascended, remember that? I called that conservative socialism. I agree with weary. Capitalizm would be fun to try. Except for the greedy oligarchy part. Cheap oil has taken the present scheme global, which is unsustainable and absurd -- apples from new zealand, etc. (See: Peak Oil (http://wolf.readinglitho.co.uk/index.html)and consider yourself warned. You're not going to hear about that in the mainstream media.)

Sorry for last night's rant. It was dark, the dog was barking, there were toads...:rolleyes:

[mweinstone]

and adding nutritional brewers yeast to milk is a fine practice.and coffie is still being reported as a keep away in high heat waves as reported two nights ago on the local news. the medical reporter didnt just say stay away from booze and caffiene,,....she said that most of us allready know that and she was reminding us of what is commonly still taught .rare and extra rare meat is a cure all for exaustion. your knowladge called,...yeah ,.. he said hes interested in meeting my spelling as their both poor and lost.

[Darwin again]

Oh brother.
The opposite of capitalist is not socialist.

Uh, yes it is. If you don't believe that someone has the right to the proceeds of their labor and/or investments (that means 100% of those wages and/or profits), and to control their property, you're a socialist. There is no "Third Way".

Uh, no, it's not. See above.

(Is editing posts enabled? I could use it...:D)

[Skidsteer]

(Is editing posts enabled? I could use it...:D)

It is, if you donate (http://www.whiteblaze.net/index.php?page=atdatabase) to WB. :)

[mweinstone]

will someone tell me what kind of platty minnisota wants. he said a 2 litre sealable plattapuss. i think he means one that opens on the bottom with a ziplok . confused. im going to ems in a few and ill get him one.and how long till he hits pawling.dances? anyone? must i do priority or general?if im offline when you answer this im at eastern mountain sports in west philly. call me if im buying the wrong one. if im off line. 215 668 0898. suggestions for most doable freash food item?

[mdionne]

come on page 45!!!!

[mdionne]

yes!!!!!!!!!!

[scope]

Oh brother.
The opposite of capitalist is not socialist.

Uh, yes it is. If you don't believe that someone has the right to the proceeds of their labor and/or investments (that means 100% of those wages and/or profits), and to control their property, you're a socialist. There is no "Third Way".

Probably the defining characteristic of extreme thinking is that everyone else who isn't in "100%" agreement with how they think becomes categorized in a degrading manner. Whether its MS here, the religious fundamentalists (both in the middle east and the christian ones here), or even extreme liberals, everyone else gets called some sort of name (liberal, socialist, infidel, etc.) in a condescending tone. This is also a trait of adolescence.

No third way? How about a fourth, fifth, etc.? You've got blinders on you dude, and its making you artificially happy in your own realm.

p.s. hope this post pisses you off enough to give you the energy to finish your hike!

[mweinstone]

WIDEN YOUR SCOPE OF HUMILITY AND ACCEPTANCE.and thank jesus for diversity. ps you are ill spoken my friend. rude, and plain old crazy in the head. you need to be alot less like yourself.

[Nightwalker]

your knowladge called,...yeah ,.. he said hes interested in meeting my spelling as their both poor and lost.
I have a new sig...

[Heater]

I have a new sig...

OK. ...so what is it?

[mweinstone]

philadelphia is devoid of plattapuss 2 litre sealable thingys.failure!must find out how long till he reaches pawling. dances?hello?

[Just Jeff]

WIDEN YOUR SCOPE OF HUMILITY AND ACCEPTANCE.

That's funny, coming from one who idolizes the embodiment of the opposite.

[The Old Fhart]

MS-"So, where are the first-come free shelters every 8 miles or so in the Whites that virtually every other section of Trail has? (Possibly being one of two thruhikers allowed to sleep somewhere after all the weekenders are through using it, on occasion only hours after "thruhiker midnight" has come and gone, and after performing some manual labor at the end of a long hiking day for an organization the hiker might wish didn't even exist, is NOT up to shelter availability standards the rest of the Trail generally maintains.)"1st, those words in your post look like they were randomly thrown together without any thought as to what you're typing.
2nd, you haven't said or shown how the AMC screws anyone. FYI, thrus are a drop in the bucket, why should they get special treatment over the majority of hut users?
3rd, MOWGLI16 nailed it with his post #872. You know nothing of the history of the clubs or how they function. BTW, don't forget to pay the caretakers when you stay in VT, that's another rip-off, fur shur! :D

[Wonder]

philadelphia is devoid of plattapuss 2 litre sealable thingys.failure!must find out how long till he reaches pawling. dances?hello?

REI in conchy has'm

[Dances with Mice]

philadelphia is devoid of plattapuss 2 litre sealable thingys.failure!must find out how long till he reaches pawling. dances?hello?I don't know how long to Pawling. You talked to him about the Platy, did he mean something like this? (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=99397&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1) It's awful nice of you to try to track one down, but you can just order it thru Campmor and have it shipped directly to MS Gen'l Delivery at whatever Post Office.

[MOWGLI]

Probably a week to Pawling at his pace - give or take. Harriman State Park will kick his hiney.

[TOW]

you all betting ole MS is about to drop out????

[mweinstone]

can you tell me if i do it all monday will there be time. the platty is perfect. ill send it from crapmore.i used to have the rules in my head but i dont do alot of thinking anymore. kidd,..just lazy.

thanx dancing on top of meeses till there squished to pieces.

[mrc237]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

you all betting ole MS is about to drop out???? Look, it took him close to 5 mos to make it to Vernon ---whattaya think?????????????

[Lone Wolf]

The boy will finish. He comes from good stock.

[mweinstone]

Receipt

Thank you very much for giving us your business. Your order has been accepted and your Order Reference Number is 9650C5.
A copy of this receipt has been e-mailed to you for your records.


Your order consists of the following items. (Prices are in US dollars)
Description Product Number Qty Unit Price Total
Platypus Water Tank™ 2 62915 1 12.95 12.95
Sub Total 12.95
Shipping Charges 6.95
Sales Tax 0.00
Total 19.90


Your method of payment for this order is American Express.

Your order will be billed to:
matthew c weinstone
2101 south 16th street
2f
philadelphia, PA 19145

Your order will be shipped to:
lucas smith
gen. deliv.AT nobo THRU HIKER
pawling, NY 12564

Your order was placed at 10:41:52 PM on Aug 5, 2006.

[Dust]

Hey Matt, now that you're at it do you think you could order me a few things? I'm doing the Colorado Trail in September and cash is tight. Here's what I need that I can't get locally:

Katadyn Hiker MicroFilter Replacement Cartridge. Campmor Item Number 55809.

MSR 2-Liter Deluxe Dromedary Bag. Campmor Item Number 87706

Trails Illustrated maps for Colorado ## 127, 129, 130 and 139.

Send me a PM and I'll give you the shipping instructions.



Receipt

Thank you very much for giving us your business. Your order has been accepted and your Order Reference Number is 9650C5.
A copy of this receipt has been e-mailed to you for your records.


Your order consists of the following items. (Prices are in US dollars)
Description Product Number Qty Unit Price Total
Platypus Water Tank™ 2 62915 1 12.95 12.95
Sub Total 12.95
Shipping Charges 6.95
Sales Tax 0.00
Total 19.90


Your method of payment for this order is American Express.

Your order will be billed to:
matthew c weinstone
2101 south 16th street
2f
philadelphia, PA 19145

Your order will be shipped to:
lucas smith
gen. deliv.AT nobo THRU HIKER
pawling, NY 12564

Your order was placed at 10:41:52 PM on Aug 5, 2006.

[mweinstone]

i dont recognize other hiking trails other than the tripple crown members.and when my art sells and hell freezes and im opra gates,....then ill buy anybody anything.acctually are you desprate or joking? and did you know their are free msr dromlights available and free maps of the exact types you need and also free cash and free anything ? did you? wanna know a secret? i know,.. how to count,..... all the way,..... to 55!this messege is not intended to confuse or anger anyone.

it just does.

[Dances with Mice]

I hereby call this meeting of the MS Hike Steering Committee to order.

There is only one item on our agenda: We need to consider flip-flopping our intrepid journeyman.

- It's getting late and he won't be cranking out any kind of big miles to make up for lost time.

- There's a deadline to finish Maine & the Whites and the season ain't getting any longer.

Is it better to jump ahead & continue northbound then come back and complete the remainder? Or go to Maine & head south? Any advantages one way or the other?

And where would be good places to make either plan happen? We need to pull together an itenerary.

I now open the meeting to discussion from the floor.

[Sly]

I'd hike to Gorham then decide. If he can reach there by September 15th he shouldn't have a problem doing Maine in 30 days.

[MOWGLI]

He could be in NH in a month - easily. Too early to decide.

[Dances with Mice]

The Chair recognizes Sly.
I'd hike to Gorham then decide. If he can reach there by September 15th he shouldn't have a problem doing Maine in 30 days.Thank you, Sly. How far from Pawling is Gorham?

[Dances with Mice]

The Chair recognizes the despicable icon.
He could be in NH in a month - easily. Too early to decide.Thank you, Mowgli. The Chair feels is not too early to make contigency plans, but your comment is entered into the minutes.

[MOWGLI]

How far from Pawling is Gorham?


The despicable icon weighs in. 445 miles.

Vernon to Pawling is 88.3 miles.

CT is 51.6 miles

MA is 90.2 mles

VT is 149.8 miles

Like I said, he can be in NH in a month - easily. But NH will slow him to a crawl.

Source (http://www.ragtag.org/atdist.html)

[Dances with Mice]

The Chair's comments about another Committe member's avatar have been ruled out of order. The minutes have been amended to include the mileage of Sly's recommended objective.

445 miles.

NH will slow him to a crawl.
Some members of the Committee believe he already needs to accelerate to reach crawling velocity.

[STEVEM]

Minnesota Smith seen today alive and well in the home state of US Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and former Presidential Candidate Rev Al Sharpton.
Time: 18:47
Location: N41 Deg, 14.651' W074 Deg, 17.229'
Elevation: 1190'

[Heater]

Minnesota Smith seen today alive and well in the home state of US Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton

:D Eat yer heart out, Neo, :cool: Austexs.

[mweinstone]

all wrong nonononono!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i will now speak for minnisota smith because you push too far.
he will walk till there is no more time and stop when forced of the trail . he will try to increase his miles asap. he is lighter, stronger, more supported, more exspirenced, and strong as the ox in john bunion.
worrying about reaching maine is a moot point. you see,.. minnisota smith is an oldschool purist.hes THRU HIKING ,not thru hiking.hell do fine and needs to be pushed by us to increase milage. hes not the overburdened, slowpoke you think.and his will is good and strong and theres fame and fourtune to concider. no possibility of failure is his new motto.hes going to prove he can finish and bask in the thrill of victory.so as you see,you dont want to be labled naysayers. minnisota smith walks slow for many reasons. some of those reasons have disapeared or changed.and he can stop with more self respect than if he does something unminnisotalike to continue and has to hate himself later. hes just not a flipflopper or a section hiker or a GA to ME lifer, but a one season, one directional , single tracked tracker of katahdin.and this prey he seeks wont come to him. hell go to it. on foot. in one journey. from one direction. this hiking season.

now i want you to calculate the milage per day increase and the increase schedual for a gradual ramping up of his milage witch is doable and able to put our man on the mountain before wheather or rangers prevent.

and i mean it. no more talk of flipping. its discusting to even imagine.

[Dances with Mice]

The Chair can't help but recognize Mathewski....


all wrong nonononono!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
..... hes just not a flipflopper or a section hiker or a GA to ME lifer, but a one season, one directional , single tracked tracker of katahdin.and this prey he seeks wont come to him. hell go to it. on foot. in one journey. from one direction. this hiking season.

now i want you to calculate the milage per day increase and the increase schedual for a gradual ramping up of his milage witch is doable and able to put our man on the mountain before wheather or rangers prevent.

and i mean it. no more talk of flipping. its discusting to even imagine.Yeah, but...it ain't going to happen. He won't make Katahdin NOBO before the park closes based on his past performance. To complete the hike this year he'll most probably have to flip. Maybe not, but to keep his hike alive we should have a plan in place and ready for MS if needed.

Besides, many users of this site have been telling MS to flip off way before he started his hike.

[Dances with Mice]

The Chair recognizes SteveM. Let the minutes show that:
Minnesota Smith seen today alive and well.
Time: 18:47
Location: N41 Deg, 14.651' W074 Deg, 17.229'
Elevation: 1190'

[saimyoji]

Motion from the floor to assess whether MS has been shaving daily. :bse

[Dances with Mice]

Motion from the floor to assess whether MS has been shaving daily. :bseOut of order! The Sergeant at Arms should remove this person immediately. Anybody seen Lone Wolf?

[STEVEM]

MS was clean shaven.

[Heater]

all wrong nonononono!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i will now speak for minnisota smith because you push too far.
he will walk till there is no more time and stop when forced of the trail . he will try to increase his miles asap. he is lighter, stronger, more supported, more exspirenced, and strong as the ox in john bunion.


Did John Bunion ever wuss out from heat exhaustion? Hmmmmm... :-?
No. I think he kept on going. He had intestinal fortitude.

[Nean]

Yeah, but...it ain't going to happen. He won't make Katahdin NOBO before the park closes based on his past performance.

Sooo, what kinda odds are we talking? 100 to 1, 1000 to 1?:eek: :-? :D ;)

[Heater]

The Chair can't help but recognize Mathewski....

Yeah, but...it ain't going to happen. He won't make Katahdin NOBO before the park closes based on his past performance. To complete the hike this year he'll most probably have to flip. Maybe not, but to keep his hike alive we should have a plan in place and ready for MS if needed.

Besides, many users of this site have been telling MS to flip off way before he started his hike.

He said a flip is not an option for him, I think?

We'll see, I guess.

[mrc237]

Message to StevenM! Where was MS spotted? I can help.

[mweinstone]

will someone please figure out the ramp up schedual he would have to do to finnish? comon.does he need 20 mile days from now to katahdin or what? does he only need to do some 20's at the end? will stepping up to 15,16, and 17's do it? what are the numbers? common nasa controle. where the fuc* are my calculaters when i need them. now i want numbers and i want them on my desk when i come home today, monday, at 4pm. then we'll send minnisota our doable schedual we make for him. any questions? get to work!!!!!!!!!!and yes you big dancing mouse thingy, we will flip him if we must so i want the numbers for that too. and we need more trail support in the way of pick ups and drop offs to and from trail and food stores so he doesnt need to zero in town any more. and how about pictures of our hero? im mailing a disposable to him to shoot and return at the post office as soon as he can flip off 27 pics and put it in the redoable mailer.and can we all try to say positive things here on the minnisota smith channel? if some of the detracters and negatoids and antaganizers could try just this once to say a word of support like, i hate you but good luck, it would help alot. please please please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sly]

He needs to do 13 miles a day. Of course if he wants a day off he'll have to earn one and hike further for several days to stay on schedule and finish by Oct 15th. At that time, the park only closes for overnight camping. It's still possible to either hike from Abol bridge, summit and leave the park or hike from Abol bridge to Katahdin Streams and return the next day to summit. Lots of people end their hikes after the official closing.

[Sly]

Of course if he flips it wont be a "real" thru-hike, just ask a purist! LOL...

[MOWGLI]

Sooo, what kinda odds are we talking? 100 to 1, 1000 to 1?:eek: :D ;)

300-1? Where have I heard those numbers before? ;)

[MOWGLI]

He needs to do 13 miles a day. Of course if he wants a day off he'll have to earn one and hike further for several days to stay on schedule and finish by Oct 15th.

Anybody have a contact for Floyd Landis' pharmacist? :D Or does the ATC require a blood test these days?

[Dances with Mice]

MS was clean shaven.The Committee never doubted that. The shaving remark was an inside joke and an attempt to divert the Committee from our important work. Further distractions from that member will result in a misconduct report being initiated and placed within the membership files.

I have a gavel. Don't make me use it.

[Dances with Mice]

We have a report from the Pace Committee. Thank you, Sly.

He needs to do 13 miles a day. Of course if he wants a day off he'll have to earn one and hike further for several days to stay on schedule and finish by Oct 15th. At that time, the park only closes for overnight camping. It's still possible to either hike from Abol bridge, summit and leave the park or hike from Abol bridge to Katahdin Streams and return the next day to summit. Lots of people end their hikes after the official closing.So with resupply and rest days and the inevitable slow-down through the Whites, a flip may be needed, maybe not.

The Chair accepts the motion that it is too early to start making travel arrangments, that we should instead continue to monitor progress reports. Can I get a second?

[MOWGLI]

Can I get a second?

Will an Amen from the bobbleheads suffice?

[Dances with Mice]

300-1? Where have I heard those numbers before? ;)The Chair resents the implication that a conflict of interest exists simply because the Chair has accepted wagers on MS finishing his hike.

Oh. Uh, well... No further business? Meeting adjourned!

[weary]

i mean it. no more talk of flipping. its discusting to even imagine.
Hmmm. If true, a rather dumb position, if your aim is to hike and see the trail over the three seasons of the hiking season. there is no logical reason for not flipping.

No two thru hikes are identical, because no day is the same as the one before or after. But flipping is a common way of completing the trail, when faced with illness, weather, or just different preferences. Even trail pioneer Earl Shaffer flipped in his last successful thru hike.

Of course, if the MS goal is not to see and enjoy the trail, but to assuage some private demons, then I guess he will have to win or lose accordingly.

Weary

[Nean]

Good stuff MOGLI16!!:D

Weary, I considered the source and decided not to comment :eek:

[saimyoji]

...and can we all try to say positive things here on the minnisota smith channel? if some of the detracters and negatoids and antaganizers could try just this once to say a word of support like, i hate you but good luck, it would help alot. please please please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is a word you should learn: Internegator.

[MOWGLI]

Good stuff MOGLI16!!:D



So what do you think Nean? Will an injection of artificial man in his can do our boy wonders like it did for Floyd? Who knows. Within a few weeks he might grow a beard, start doing 20 miles a day, and reverse the polarity on his chick magnet. :sun Stranger things have happened. :rolleyes:

And now... it's off to do some hiking.

Keep on truckin's MS! I may break your onions from time to time, but I'm still rootin' for ya.

[Jack Tarlin]

I hope Smitty sees this:

*It takes most folks 2-3 days to do Connecticut
*It takes most folks 5-6 for Massachusetts
*I takes most folks 9-11 days for Vermont
*It takes most folks 12-13 days for New Hampshire
*It takes most folks 21-25 days for Vermont

This includes slow days, half days, even zero days.

The typical thru-hiker makes Katahdin 34-39 days after leaving Hanover, with around 37 days being the average.

This means that if a hiker wants to get to Katahdin by 15 October, he must be here (Hanover) by the 10th of September. It is VERY difficult to make up miles or upgrade your daily mileage/average after you leave here.

From what I gather, Smith's daily mileage has improved, but he's probably still a bit slower than most hikers, meaning he should realistically be here by the first of September, and preferably before that, as weather can get treacherous the later into October one is hiking. One doesn't want to "plan" on finishing 10-15 October. Because the weather can be bad the further North you go, it's best to get there a bit sooner.

To be blunt, I'm not sure he'll get to Katahdin in time if he doesn't upgrade his mileage immediately. Or skip a section temporarily and come back for it later.

The other alternative is doing some kind of flip.....either geting up to Baxter now (or soon) and start heading south, or better yet, jumping up a bit, to Vermont or here, and going North. He'll be in good company, will get NH and Maine out of the way before it gets too cold, and can then "fill in" whatever he's skipped when he's done with those two. New Jersy, New York, Connecticut, and Massachusetss can all be hiked well into the fall and even early winter.

At his present rate of speed, unless he upgrades his mileage NOW, or gets a whole lot of slackpacking help, I'm not sure he can finish an un-interrupted Northbound hike by 15 October. Seems to me his can choose between finishing AFTER 15 October (which is doable but difficult), or better yet, he needs to skip or flip.

And lastly, those who are speculating on his chances to finish, or those placing bets on the matter would do well to remember that certain foolish folks were doing this back in February, and he managed to surprise them. I think Smitty is perfectly capable of finishing and I for one would like to see him do so.

[scope]

*It takes most folks 2-3 days to do Connecticut
*It takes most folks 5-6 for Massachusetts
*I takes most folks 9-11 days for Vermont
*It takes most folks 12-13 days for New Hampshire
*It takes most folks 21-25 days for Vermont

Boy, that doubleback through Vermont is a killer! ;) :D

[The Old Fhart]

Scope-"Boy, that doubleback through Vermont is a killer!"That's why it takes over twice as long the second time thru! :D

[Jack Tarlin]

Quite right. Vermont ain't that tough.

The 21-25 day figure was obviously meant to describe Maine.

[The Old Fhart]

BJ-"Quite right. Vermont ain't that tough."We still luv ya Jack, just a little innocent fun at your expense!

[mweinstone]

sly and the family weinstone.thank you sir or mam.so in fact minnisota is okay and he can fully do it.and the doubting tommases are miss doubten!







minnisota smith lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!to hike another today

how much do you have to donate to be able to edit and block and kick off the WB ,,naysayers?

[Just Jeff]

I think you have to buy out attroll.

[Nean]

And lastly, those who are speculating on his chances to finish, or those placing bets on the matter would do well to remember that certain foolish folks were doing this back in February, and he managed to surprise them. I think Smitty is perfectly capable of finishing and I for one would like to see him do so.

Sooo, what are the odds that JT dosen't get :eek: :-? :D ;)

BTW, I've been rooting for MS since I met him at Neel Gap and watched him struggle for 5 min to get his pack on. It was before I worked there and I just wanted to see how long it took a genius to figure out his hip belt was buckled. I did help him with his shoulder strap as I'm a sensitive kinda guy--- don'tcha know.
I couldn't pick a finisher from a 3 day dropout if my life depended on it. I don't agree w/ many of MS opinions and I don't think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, (as some here seem to think) but that doesn't mean I'm against him either. I'm a bit like my friend JT in that I'll say what I think. I am sorry it wasn't totally obvious to all that I was just having some foolish fun.

Man in a can would improve his odds to 273 to 1 according to my data MOGLI16, thanks for asking. Darn- out of smilies.

[The Old Fhart]

mweinstone-"how much do you have to donate to be able to edit and block and kick off the WB ,,naysayers?"If you just stop posting they won't have to block you!:D

[general]

i don't think cool roy MS can increase miles in the upcoming terrain. when the going gets tough MS gets slower. that's not an opinion, that's history, and history is fact. MS, if you wanna finish, a flip is the only answer. don't kid yourself at this point.

[Dust]

... finish by Oct 15th. At that time, the park only closes for overnight camping. It's still possible to either hike from Abol bridge, summit and leave the park or hike from Abol bridge to Katahdin Streams and return the next day to summit. Lots of people end their hikes after the official closing.
With the caveat that I'm unfamiliar with the official Katahdin rules, if the above is correct, there is no reason MS couldn't hike until the end of October, stay at a motel or hostel the night he arrives at the Big K, and summit the next day. Right? If so, Oct. 15 is not a deadline at all, right?

[Jack Tarlin]

Dust:

What you've said is perfectly true, but climbing Katahdin after the 15th is a pain in the ass, for any number of reasons:

*After that date, the park is open for DAY USE ONLY, meaning you can't overnight there.

*Getting from Abol Bridge to the summit of Katahdin and back down again in one day is, in my opinion, more than Smitty can handle in one day, and if he came down at the end of the day, or after dark, he'd have a helluva time getting back to Millinocket.

*He could, of course, hike to Katahdin Stream (i.e. to the foot of Katahdin), then leave the Park, stay elsewhere, return in the morning, day-hike Katahdin, and then leave, but this is a pain in the ass. It would involve considerable expense, too, like multiple motel fees, shuttle/taxi fees, etc. I know of several folks who had to WALK from the Baxter State Park gates all the way to Millinocket as they couldn't get a ride. Believe me, this is no fun.

*We haven't even mentioned that the chances of running into really awful weather climb dramatically if you get there after the 15th (or even the 10th). In recent years, the mountain has actually been closed by Park officials for safety reasons for days at a time, forcing folks to either not summit, or being seriously delayed.

So the quick answer to your question is yeah, it's certainly possible to get up to the summit of Katahdin after the 15th, but for all sorts of reasons, this is generally something to be avoided.

[Dances with Mice]

So just to be clear, you're recommending either a flip or a skip to Hanover ASAP, Jack?

[Dust]

Getting from Abol Bridge to the summit of Katahdin and back down again in one day is, in my opinion, more than Smitty can handle in one day, and if he came down at the end of the day, or after dark, he'd have a helluva time getting back to Millinocket.
After all MS has gone through and overcome, summiting Big K and making it back down again (perhaps with the aid of a headlamp) is "more than Smitty can handle in one day"? R U serious?


We haven't even mentioned that the chances of running into really awful weather climb dramatically if you get there after the 15th (or even the 10th). In recent years, the mountain has actually been closed by Park officials for safety reasons for days at a time, forcing folks to either not summit, or being seriously delayed.
If I had hiked from Springer to K and had to wait a few days to place the final crown on my accomplishment, I would gladly wait a few days or even trade my pack for an ice ax and crampons to conquer the summit.

Smitty will finish in October -- whether before or after the magic 15th day is immaterial.

[Jack Tarlin]

Dust:

Please re-read my post. I said that hiking ALL THE WAY FROM the park boundary at Abol bridge, and then hiking all the way up to the summit, and then back down again in one is probably more than he can handle. I've met with, talked with him, and seen him hike. Have you?

I further said that he can certainly do the stretch from Abol to Katahdin and back down again over the course of more than one day, but this is cumbersome and a pain in the ass. Also, in addition to being a pain, it can be downright unsafe. I've heard some very scary stories and seen even scarier photos from folks who summitted in late October or early November. There is a VERY good reason why prudent folks avoid this. And coming down with a headlamp is fine, although he'll have a helluva time getting back to Millinocket after he comes down at ten PM. Oh, and if he falls coming down in the dark, is seriously injured, and there's no one else around, well he could die if the weather is bad. So yeah, Dust, I guess I was being serious, since you asked.

And as far as Smitty strapping on crampons and wielding an ice axe, well I'm not sure how much experience Smitty has with these tools. Ice climbing Katahdin in an ice storm is tough enough without trying to do it on your first day out with an axe.

Mice: Yes, you read my post correctly. Unless Smity manages to accelerate a good deal between his present location and Hanover, he may well be best off if he decides to skip a section and saves it for AFTER completing NH and Maine. Whether or not he skips, flips, hikes in one direction only......this of course is up to him. But I'm not sure, at his present pace, he's capable of getting to Katahdin in time to safely and easily complete his journey. I don't think he'll get there at his present pace by 15 October, and for any number of reasons, I think he'd be wiser to avoid summitting AFTER this date. So yeah, DWM, I'm strongly suggesting he reevaluate his apparent decision not to skip or flip.

And if events prove me wrong, I'll happily be the first to admit it.

[Dances with Mice]

So yeah, DWM, I'm strongly suggesting he reevaluate his apparent decision not to skip or flip.From recent discussions with MS, I assure you that he is open to either flipping or skipping. Temporarily skipping, of course.

The preferred arrangement would be the one that could happen with the least hassle (...aka 'expense'...). Any ideas on where and how?

[Jack Tarlin]

It depends where he is at the moment.

Getting to, say Hanover, is fairly easy, especially if one doesn't mind hitching.

There's all sorts of bus service available from New York or New Jersey; Amtrak services White River Junction, a few miles from Hanover. There's daily bus service from WRJ to Hanover, or it's a cheap cab ride.

If he can get to Hanover, he's welcome to stay with me for as long as he needs, saving money on lodging expenses, which can be considerable arround here.

If he decides to jump ahead, I hope he posts this information here, so other folks who might be near his position might be in a position to help him with a ride, shuttle, bed for the night, etc.

P.S. This doesn't just involve Smitty. I'll be happy to help anyone else coming thru Hanover in pretty much the same fashion, as I expect to be here for a few weeks before heading North.

[mweinstone]

ones place on the trail after this many miles is sacred. ya dont just skip ahead or flip if your minnisota smith. you walk till ya cant.i dont care as much about finnishing as i do about ethics.we all know what the word thru means and its special meaning on trail.if flip floping is still a thru hike then why not just call them thru hikes instead of flips? cause there section hikes renamed and overrated.walking with spring is the way. and sobo swalk into spring and thats their way. these are thru hikes.some of us remain old fashoned as un cool and angering as it is.

democrat flippin freaks!

[Dances with Mice]

Last night he was at Wilcat Shelter. He may have a ride to Hanover on the 26th, if you don't think that's too late.

[Jack Tarlin]

Probably that's too late for me to do much for him, but there's free camping at the North end of town and hikers are reporting that they've had no trouble catching a shower at the Dartmouth gym.

If he's only at Wildcat, there's no way he's gonna be here by the 26th; that's just 19 days from now, and it takes most folks that long just to do Vermont and Massachusetts, and that's folks hiking faster than he is.

If he does get here on or about the 26th, he should have no trouble getting to Baxter by 15 October; even he shouldn't need more than 50 days to do NH and Maine.

But were I Smith, I'd try and get here before then, peraps from Kent, Salisbury, or Great Barrington. (If he can get to Dalton, Rob Bird or Tom Levardi can help him out and get him to a bus station, most likely Pittsfield or Wiliamstown).

[mweinstone]

is tommorow morn too late to mail some treats to minnisota smith in pawling. do yo have to use priority to hold for general mail or can you speed things up and overnight it to a post office?im thinkin hes gonna bust a move and increase speed next week. im thinkin hes still taking it easy since his crash in vernon.electrolites are critical. this is the lesson thinks i.

[The Old Fhart]

Dust-"If I had hiked from Springer to K and had to wait a few days to place the final crown on my accomplishment, I would gladly wait a few days or even trade my pack for an ice ax and crampons to conquer the summit."Spoken like someone who doesn't have the faintest idea what he's talking about or has never been there. Once the weather gets bad and they enforce the winter rules, you can't go above tree line without a party of four experienced and equipted winter climbers, all of whom have to be approved by BSP. I've climbed all the major peaks in Baxter State Park in winter and I know what is involved. I don't care who you are or how far you've hiked, if you don't meet the requirements you don't go-period. In 1987 I met a guy at Fontana who had tried to sneak in without an approved group and they went in, arrested him, and threw him in jail.

If MS doesn't think he can make Katahdin in time and has any sense he will do what Bill Irwin did, flip to do the last 5.2 miles from Katahdin Stream CG to Baxter Peak and back before the weather closes the mountain to summer use rules so as to finish the one part that could actually stop him from completing the entire trail.

[minnesotasmith]

A trail angel and I had a fortuitous meeting there. He took me to his home, where I got showered, washed my clothes, and was given a sumptious dinner. Hoping to be at Graymoor in 3 or 4 days.

[minnesotasmith]

300-1? Where have I heard those numbers before? ;)

I think some apparent web-blazers once upon a time were betting that I'd never make it as far as Fontana Dam, a spot on the Trail easily 1000 miles behind me now. :D

[Skidsteer]

I think some apparent web-blazers once upon a time were betting that I'd never make it as far as Fontana Dam, a spot on the Trail easily 1000 miles behind me now. :D

Yeah, yeah, and lots of us root for Underdogs 'cause it's the American Way.

Hike now, Yap later....:D

[mweinstone]

you feelin better? dude, im sendin you the most awsom chocolate bar. its new from lindt, "seriously orange dark chocolate"and whole foods store brand jerky. and tommorow morn ill put some fudge in it and a pint of booze if you like. you can give it away if not. ill get something that burns so you can just pour it in your fuel if you dont drink.the beer i opened just now is being dedicated to your hike and the moon landing. both seem to have alot of the same feelings for me.i must appologize for blowing smoke in your fase. next year im not smokin in shelters. im gonna creep deep into the woods with whoever wants and keep it on the down low. we were way to brazen werent we?and i do say im sorry minnisota smith.you were very tolorant .

[minnesotasmith]

Is NOT back to normal, despite my layover for rest and vegetable-gorging @ the hostel in Vernon, and my starting on antibiotics for Lyme. I managed 12 miles yesterday, my best day since before central PA, albeit I did slack much of it. Today I could not have done even that much before running out of steam, had I continued on instead of accepting an offer to clean up, a home-cooked meal and sleep in a bug-free air-conditioned bed. I seem to have a continuing residual extra sensitivity to high outside temps (that started in central PA along with everything else) as well. By comparison, I was often doing repeated 13s before PA. My record day is still 18.2 (twice), with about (6 )17-somethings, all pre-PA.

I have an offer from a trail angel to give me a ride from whereever I am on 8/26 to Hanover, NH. If I take advantage of this generosity, the plan would be to go NOBO all the way until I summit the big K, then head back afterwards to finish the remainder. I figure that even at my current lousy pace, I can certainly be in CT, and possibly MA, before the 26th. Flipping would chap my posterior to some degree, but I don't see the math working out otherwise, sad to say. The combination of illness and the protracted heat wave from central PA on (I seem to handle heat worse than most other hikers) have really taken a toll on my progress.

Jack, thank you for your generous offer. I may take you up on it. My cousin and parents are considering coming up to Hanover then, with my slacking with my cousin the 43 miles to the beginning of the Whites the plan. I have heard that it may be leaf-peeping season there, with hotels unavailable at any price, though.

So, you think I should try to head up to NH even sooner than that? While my health is still marginal, I am reasonably certain that cooler weather would make a big difference in my average daily mileage.

[mweinstone]

if cool is what you need then cool is what you must have. but waiting 3 more days to see if either your streangth returnes or the weather breaks is better. all our support no matter what the heck ya do.

[minnesotasmith]

you feelin better? dude, im sendin you the most awsom chocolate bar. its new from lindt, "seriously orange dark chocolate"and whole foods store brand jerky. and tommorow morn ill put some fudge in it and a pint of booze if you like. you can give it away if not. ill get something that burns so you can just pour it in your fuel if you dont drink.the beer i opened just now is being dedicated to your hike and the moon landing. both seem to have alot of the same feelings for me.i must appologize for blowing smoke in your fase. next year im not smokin in shelters. im gonna creep deep into the woods with whoever wants and keep it on the down low. we were way to brazen werent we?and i do say im sorry minnisota smith.you were very tolorant .

1) I'm not that much on dark chocolate, albeit that sounds pretty decent. Just some plain Cadbury is fine for the sophistication level of my taste buds WRT chocolate.

2) My preferred alcoholic beverages are Chambord or strong English mead (the wine version). My father being a wine collector, I got spoiled as far as wines go. I can't afford the 40-year-old stuff he would serve. Jack, you still owe me a drink, BTW. ;)

3) If someone can tell me where I can find reasonably-priced whole-wheat blueberry Newtons (presumably online), I'd love to hear about it.

4) My appetite towards trail food has notably declined during the last month. I figure I'm partially just tired of that kind of chow, but also my health is likely a factor, I think.

5) Re pot and such on the Trail: a high level of tolerance is necessary for the unusual there that does not immediately matter. There are enough unavoidable stressors there without adding more. For example, there is a girl hiking on the AT that would be at least moderately attractive, but for having shaved her head. It would be crass and IMO a breach of Trail custom to tell her this directly unasked. By way of comparison, a group of SOBOs at the first shelter N. of Vernon yesterday were on the rude side; they apparently had not yet absorbed that much of Trail culture IMO.

[Sly]

Too bad you have such an aversion to pot (and bald headed woman). I've heard, a little toke before a climb and a lotta Pink Floyd makes any mountain easy! I guess some would call that cheating....

[mweinstone]

.on the getting to katahdin thing,.....can i please say one thing we all are thinking that no one seems to be saying?




minnisota smith CAN get to the end if he wants with no problem at all.

only only thing can stop him,.......
yep,...you guessed,....
kriptomite

[weary]

Probably that's too late for me to do much for him, but there's free camping at the North end of town and hikers are reporting that they've had no trouble catching a shower at the Dartmouth gym.

If he's only at Wildcat, there's no way he's gonna be here by the 26th; that's just 19 days from now, and it takes most folks that long just to do Vermont and Massachusetts, and that's folks hiking faster than he is.

If he does get here on or about the 26th, he should have no trouble getting to Baxter by 15 October; even he shouldn't need more than 50 days to do NH and Maine.

But were I Smith, I'd try and get here before then, peraps from Kent, Salisbury, or Great Barrington. (If he can get to Dalton, Rob Bird or Tom Levardi can help him out and get him to a bus station, most likely Pittsfield or Wiliamstown).
If I was in MS's position now, I would bypass Connecticut and Massachusetts and skip to Vermont. Both skipped states I suspect can be done with some ease well into November.

I should warn him, however, that this was my strategy in 1993. Unfortunately after climbing Katahdin on the 16th of October, going back to Connecticut struck me as anticlimatic. It was two summers later before I finally did those two states.

If he gets to Maine I or someone, I'm sure, will do what we can to shuttle MS about, though I face a couple of hospital stays in September, which might complicate things.

I know the Cabin in Andover coached and shuttled Earl Shaffer through the final weeks of his final thru hike after he had resolved to quit.

WEary

[mweinstone]

you said the most apprapo thing. if i may quote you,..."anything but a real thru hike sucks, dont stop or skip or flip minnisota smith"


you rock mr or mrs weary.

[Dust]

dude, im sendin you the most awsom chocolate bar. its new from lindt, "seriously orange dark chocolate"and whole foods store brand jerky. and tommorow morn ill put some fudge in it and a pint of booze if you like. you can give it away if not. ill get something that burns so you can just pour it in your fuel if you dont drink.

HEY - what about the gear I ordered over the weekend. Got a tracking number yet?! :mad:

[Dust]

Spoken like someone who doesn't have the faintest idea what he's talking about or has never been there. Once the weather gets bad and they enforce the winter rules, you can't go above tree line without a party of four experienced and equipted winter climbers, all of whom have to be approved by BSP. I've climbed all the major peaks in Baxter State Park in winter and I know what is involved. I don't care who you are or how far you've hiked, if you don't meet the requirements you don't go-period. In 1987 I met a guy at Fontana who had tried to sneak in without an approved group and they went in, arrested him, and threw him in jail.

If MS doesn't think he can make Katahdin in time and has any sense he will do what Bill Irwin did, flip to do the last 5.2 miles from Katahdin Stream CG to Baxter Peak and back before the weather closes the mountain to summer use rules so as to finish the one part that could actually stop him from completing the entire trail.

You're right Weary, I've never hiked in Maine. My thoughts were that I'd like to see him plow through if possible. But if it's downright impractical or dangerous to summit K in late October, thanks for setting the record straight.

I also see no great compromise to jumping ahead to K solely to do that 5.2 miles, then returning immediately thereafter to where he left off. Of course, all of this is MS's decision and I trust he will make the right one.

[Nean]

Sounds of side stepping and backtracking. :eek:
The odds just jumped to a million to one that MS hikes a mineistoned thru.:rolleyes:
80 somethings, little girls and boys, even pets can do it..... but not our hero, sad to say. :(

Not to worry MS, end to end isn't what the trail is about after all!:-? HYOH, enjoy each day and you have earned my respect. It doesn't matter how far you go or the direction in which you travel. Congratulations on making it to Fontana Dam BTW. I've enjoyed your thread and hope you have enjoyed your hike. Good luck with the rest of it, regardless. Any plans for next year?

[Heater]

The odds just jumped to a million to one that MS hikes a mineistoned thru.


So, I'll put up 10 bucks he makes it and you pay me 10 Million if he doesn't?

I's a bet! :D

Gooooo, Smitty! :D :D :banana

[Nean]

So, I'll put up 10 bucks he makes it and you pay me 10 Million if he doesn't?

I's a bet! :D

Gooooo, Smitty! :D :banana

Not a problem, I have the check in the mail already!:D

[mweinstone]

today is the day!minnisota smith should be feeling that old north wind blowing him safely to maine. by the way, thank you to all the recent positivity comming from the peanut gallery. you may now return to your regularly schedualed lambasting and roasting and harping and prostelatizing.in a way i belive i may have been wrong to suggest to the naysayers to stop there infernal naying. but now i see its what he may need so give it your best shot.im going to the post office first thing to mail the golden three. chocolate jerkey and two fiftys. i wrote this hiku for the man cause hes a hiku kinda guy.(even if he is a revese chick magnet)

sugar,meat and money
meet them by the river
do alot of walking

i love this poem. its all about allagori.
see ya.

[Lone Wolf]

You're obsession and love is weird. If I were Smith I'd be getting a restraining order.:cool:

[StarLyte]

"I know the Cabin in Andover coached and shuttled Earl Shaffer through the final weeks of his final thru hike after he had resolved to quit.

WEary"

....didn't know that, Weary. Very interesting.

[the goat]

we all know what the word thru means and its special meaning on trail.

which begs the question: why do you have 2006 as the year you thru'ed in your bio?:-?

[The Old Fhart]

Lone Wolf-"You're obsession and love is weird. If I were Smith I'd be getting a restraining order"Actually I thought that 2 days ago when I posted:"Personally, if I were MS reading your posts I'd be thinking about Glenn Close in Fatal attractions."

Now I think it is possibly more scarier being like Edward Norton and Brad Pitt in Fight Club!

[mrc237]

"Single White Female"

[Just Jeff]

Girl, Interrupted

[Heater]

Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble... :)

[Lone Wolf]

Oscar and Felix.

[Just Jeff]

Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble... :)

Hey - leave them out of this!

[Heater]

Hey - leave them out of this!

OK. How 'bout Ren and Stimpy? :D

[Just Jeff]

More like Pinky and the Brain.

[max patch]

Will and Grace.

[Lone Wolf]

Siegfried & Roy
www.siegfriedandroy.com/home/index.php

[Heater]

The Skipper and Gilligan.

[Redhead]

I'm new here, but Minnesota extolled the virtues of WhiteBlaze.net when he passed through Harper's Ferry where my husband and I live. We picked him up in the midst of an evening downpour and invited him to stay overnight with us, regaling us with his tales of his adventures on the trail and consuming (at our invitation, of course) myriad olives and cilantro!! He was a big help with our parrot, too. He helped me clip Lupe's wings, advised on bird food, etc.

--Minnesota, if you read this post, please come back! Lupe needs his claws clipped!--


Being rather ignorant of the AT and this thread, could someone please estimate where MS is at this point. It sounds as if he's been ill...

[Heater]

I'm new here, but Minnesota extolled the virtues of WhiteBlaze.net when he passed through Harper's Ferry where my husband and I live. We picked him up in the midst of an evening downpour and invited him to stay overnight with us, regaling us with his tales of his adventures on the trail and consuming (at our invitation, of course) myriad olives and cilantro!! He was a big help with our parrot, too. He helped me clip Lupe's wings, advised on bird food, etc.

--Minnesota, if you read this post, please come back! Lupe needs his claws clipped!--


Being rather ignorant of the AT and this thread, could someone please estimate where MS is at this point. It sounds as if he's been ill...

On an Uncharted Desert Isle...:D :D :D :D

[Dances with Mice]

I'm new here, but Minnesota extolled the virtues of WhiteBlaze.net when he passed through Harper's Ferry where my husband and I live. Virtues? Here? Really?


Being rather ignorant of the AT and this thread, could someone please estimate where MS is at this point. It sounds as if he's been ill... He got a little sideways crossing the NJ-NY state line, but he's back on track now. He's in southern NY.

[Just Jeff]

Being rather ignorant of the AT and this thread, could someone please estimate where MS is at this point. It sounds as if he's been ill...

Don't get the wrong idea about WB based on this thread - it's all in good fun. Well, for most of us, anyway. :D

[Heater]

Don't get the wrong idea about WB based on this thread - it's all in good fun. Well, for most of us, anyway. :D

And really. The resemblance is uncanny.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/7/3/5/5/2.jpg


http://www.slashfilm.com/uploadedimages/gilligan.jpg

Could be related...

[STEVEM]

At my home in NJ, MS told me about nutrition requirements for our parakeets and the possible problems with commercial bird seed. He gave me the name and link to a custom birdfood guy in MN. He also gave my daughter a complete reading list for her fall semester. She's already reading the first book on the list. This man just may be a wizard.

[Mother's Finest]

Three comments....

1. Matthewski's only resemblence to Bob Denver is in their love of natural green things that grow up out of the ground that we like to dry and smoke.

2. Harrison's Organic Bird Pellets are the best.

3. and Finally, to the Man himself---MS...you mentioned some good books in your reading list many pages back. What about It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis? Particularly topical for the Bush adminsitrations entry and subsequent continuance of office....

Keep on truckin brother.

peace
MF

[gr8fulyankee]

Siegfried & Roy
www.siegfriedandroy.com/home/index.php (http://www.siegfriedandroy.com/home/index.php)

I think its more like Frodo Baggins & Samwise Gamgee :D

[Nightwalker]

The boy will finish. He comes from good stock.
Make up your mind! :)

From post #2: "1 in 25 chance"

[mdionne]

Spongebob Squarepants and Patrick...

[Nightwalker]

Your method of payment for this order is American Express.
With everything else, where's the CC number and expiration date?

:)

[mweinstone]

my logo says 2006 thru hiker cause i started from the falls on feb 18th and 67 days later and 600+ miles in pearisburg va i made the decision to stop and save for next year rather than be in great debt.i had fully thaught i was going to make it but it wasnt to be. so in the spirit of a lifer ,i knew i could get a better start in 2007. so im packed,6 lbs lighter in the pack, richer, and more excited than ever. im counting the days to feb 18th when i will make my fourth attempt.im at peace with my decision and on new years eve my logo will change to class of 2007. but i am still a class member this year and am supporting as many others as i can.

mailed a third package to the man today. its a camera in a return mailer with instructions not to carry it but to only take his pictures at the post office and send it back . this should give us some ove the clearest pictures so far to post.with minnisota smith as the photagrapher and directer , we shall see....

once i wrote a poem for my son that contained the charictures of me ,his mom, and him in alagory. so i wrote a single sentence describing each of us. about myself i wrote i was a lover of men. my son teased me for it cause it sounds gay witch im not .it means im not to proud to love any of gods creations, men,women,bums and crackheads,etc. i pray the best for all mankind.

[Just Jeff]

Wait. You want a whole roll of pics of MS at the post office? If someone asked me that I'd expect more than a high five next time we met...

And "lover of men" does sound like you're, well, a lover of men. I understand what you're trying to say, but words mean things, and calling yourself a lover of men does carry a certain connotation. But as long as you're comfortable with it, nothing else really matters, does it?

[Sly]

so im packed,6 lbs lighter in the pack, richer, and more excited than ever.

So why not just go to Maine and hike south to Pearisburg?

[mweinstone]

i want to hike the trail lots of times in each direction in my life. but allways one end to the other without stopping.when i was 15 my heros were thru hikers of the AT.still are. allways will be. see,....when your simple ypu are made happy by simple things. i could be happy in prison i think.i know minnisota really doent wanna flip,...its just that he also dosnt want to give up the finnishing of the trail from any direction. and if push comes to shove he wont quit rather than flip ,.. as i would.and remember also, the world would be a boring place if people werent so diverse.

[Lone Wolf]

AT hikers as heros? Sad. It's just a recreational hiking trail.

[mweinstone]

YOUR a recreational hiking trail. the at is a god among trails ,a giant among the other two ideas in matthewskis head, a freakishly excellent way rightious place and where i enjoy such hudge leaps in social advancement such as farting and burping free. walking and talking with freaks and eating such wonderments as,.........crappy trail food!