View Full Version : Tent Stake Weight vs. Functionality
irritable_badger
03-02-2006, 03:30
Here's the deal. My new MSR tent came with these tiny "Needle" stakes that don't seem to hold well in soft or really rocky dirt and they don't have any flag or pull to facilitate finding and/or removing them; they also only weigh .176 ozs each. The stakes on my other MSR tent are the "Ground Hog" style. They have proven extremely effective in just about every condition and they have the reflective flag/pull for easy location/removal but they weigh .71 ozs each. Is the weight difference between the stakes really significant or is this getting into an insanely esoteric "numbers game" that is more fun than practical?
Also how many, if any, extra stakes do you carry?
aaronthebugbuffet
03-02-2006, 07:32
well those fractions will add up if your going the ultralite approach, but if the lighter stakes dont work then you are carrying something you cant use which is the ultimate sin of lightweight philosophy
I would carry what works and no extra. If you loose a stake, you can jerry-rig your tent with some stones or sticks until you get back into a town. If your bouncing a box through the p.o., you may want to keep a couple extra in there.
Skidsteer
03-02-2006, 08:12
Perhaps some of the stake-down points for your tent are more critical than others? You could take the heavier stakes for those points and carry the lighter ones for the others.
Wrap the tops of the light stakes with colored electricians tape or tie surveyor's tape to them if you're worried about losing them.
In a pinch, you can whittle down some sticks to use or tie your guy-out lines to handy trees.:)
Go to your Home Depot, or any building supply store, and look at the long aluminum gutter nails. I don't know what they weigh but they are very light and long enough, you can pound them in hard ground with a rock or stick. If you use the wide surveyors tape to flag them cut off squares and stick the nails through them instead of tying longer pieces around them. I carry 3 extra, they make a good pot support for cooking over a small wood fire.
The Solemates
03-02-2006, 10:18
Go to your Home Depot, or any building supply store, and look at the long aluminum gutter nails. I don't know what they weigh but they are very light and long enough, you can pound them in hard ground with a rock or stick. If you use the wide surveyors tape to flag them cut off squares and stick the nails through them instead of tying longer pieces around them. I carry 3 extra, they make a good pot support for cooking over a small wood fire.
Ive heard a lot about these gutter nails, but never paid much attention until now, since I need some new stakes. Does anyone have these and mind posting the weight? Thanks...
Ive heard a lot about these gutter nails, but never paid much attention until now, since I need some new stakes. Does anyone have these and mind posting the weight? Thanks...
I don't have a scale to weigh one nail but a carton of 500 of the 7 inch weighs 15 pounds, a carton of 500 of the 8 inch weighs 17 pounds. That comes out to .48 and .55 ounces, respectively. Lighter than some regular stakes and IMO much more rugged, not to mention much cheaper.
AbeHikes
03-02-2006, 12:05
And you could paint the heads with some neon color spray paint...
The Solemates
03-02-2006, 12:06
I don't have a scale to weigh one nail but a carton of 500 of the 7 inch weighs 15 pounds, a carton of 500 of the 8 inch weighs 17 pounds. That comes out to .48 and .55 ounces, respectively. Lighter than some regular stakes and IMO much more rugged, not to mention much cheaper.
but can you buy them individually and not an entire carton? i dont need 500 of them :)
but can you buy them individually and not an entire carton? i dont need 500 of them :)
They're loose on the shelf in open boxes when you go to the store. You get 1, or 4, or a dozen, whatever you want. Probably get all you need for the price of one titanium stake. Most of the time they will also have the heads painted white so they are easy to see at night with any kind of small light.
Just Jeff
03-02-2006, 14:14
Gutter nail - .44 oz, 13 g
Walmart aluminum stake with the hooked top - .5 oz, 15 g
[quote=irritable_badger]Is the weight difference between the stakes really significant or is this getting into an insanely esoteric "numbers game" that is more fun than practical? quote]
IMHO, no, 2 grams makes no real difference. eventually the sun will explode and life as we know it will cease to exist, and my life in the big picture will have been pretty insignificant, and the 2 gram difference in tent stake weight will not have mattered at all... but in the meantime, to me, the point of all the weighing and analyzing and discussion is to carry a 10-15lb pack vs a 30-35 lb pack. some will argue differently. i weigh each gram as a way to quantify a function. in this case, we're talking about tent stakes. the purpose is to hold a rope or loop into the ground. this stake weighs half an ounce. this other stake weighs .4oz. they are both roughly the same length and thickness, and within a few cents cost-wise. weight simply gives us another "weigh" (sorry, i had to! :D ) to measure the function. they both hold the rope or loop equally well. so here, for 6 stakes, say, we have a 12 gram difference. not a big deal, half an ounce or so. but when we start doing this type of analysis for every item we carry (and there are dozens), from tarps to groundclothes to pots to stoves to water bottles to clothing, suddenly, we're talking about many ounces, and before long, we're up to pounds...
so again, what do we get from all this? nothing, really, except a way to compare similar functions of similar equipment, encourage discussion, and learn to do more with less. the end result has been a reduction in my pack weight from in the 30s to in the low teens... could i now carry 2 grams more weight? sure i could... it really won't matter... but i got to the low teens by analyzing ALL my gear 1 gram at a time... and THAT is not an impractical thing... (and it was fun too!). some people understand, and others don't.
some people see ultralighters as dangerous to themselves and a bother to others. then there are the superultralighters, who revel in their sub-7lb base weights... to them, it's a competition... it's not that way to me... i see no sense in carrying more than i have to. yet i will carry binoculars and a paperback because i want to. but everything else i carry will have been looked at, thought through, and the lightest i can get.
hope that helps. and maybe/probably it was more of an answer than you asked for, in which case i apologize. i have a tendancy to give watch-making instructions when asked for the time...
Just Jeff
03-03-2006, 11:15
i see no sense in carrying more than i have to. yet i will carry binoculars and a paperback because i want to. but everything else i carry will have been looked at, thought through, and the lightest i can get.
Yep. I like to carry about 20 lbs...so if I can get all of my "hafta carries" down to 7 lbs or less, that leaves 13 lbs for more goodies. I like fresh fruit, for example, and I carry a JetBoil instead of an alcohol or Esbit stove. I've examined my stuff enough to know that I can carry those luxuries and still hit my target weight.
So for me, it isn't getting my packweight as low as possible, it's getting the best pack I can for 20 lbs or so. And since I like the hooked tent stakes, I sacrifice the 4g for two Walmart stakes!
irritable_badger
03-03-2006, 13:06
[quote=irritable_badger]Is the weight difference between the stakes really significant or is this getting into an insanely esoteric "numbers game" that is more fun than practical? quote]
IMHO, no, 2 grams makes no real difference. eventually the sun will explode and life as we know it will cease to exist, and my life in the big picture will have been pretty insignificant, and the 2 gram difference in tent stake weight will not have mattered at all... but in the meantime, to me, the point of all the weighing and analyzing and discussion is to carry a 10-15lb pack vs a 30-35 lb pack. some will argue differently. i weigh each gram as a way to quantify a function. in this case, we're talking about tent stakes. the purpose is to hold a rope or loop into the ground. this stake weighs half an ounce. this other stake weighs .4oz. they are both roughly the same length and thickness, and within a few cents cost-wise. weight simply gives us another "weigh" (sorry, i had to! :D ) to measure the function. they both hold the rope or loop equally well. so here, for 6 stakes, say, we have a 12 gram difference. not a big deal, half an ounce or so. but when we start doing this type of analysis for every item we carry (and there are dozens), from tarps to groundclothes to pots to stoves to water bottles to clothing, suddenly, we're talking about many ounces, and before long, we're up to pounds...
so again, what do we get from all this? nothing, really, except a way to compare similar functions of similar equipment, encourage discussion, and learn to do more with less. the end result has been a reduction in my pack weight from in the 30s to in the low teens... could i now carry 2 grams more weight? sure i could... it really won't matter... but i got to the low teens by analyzing ALL my gear 1 gram at a time... and THAT is not an impractical thing... (and it was fun too!). some people understand, and others don't.
some people see ultralighters as dangerous to themselves and a bother to others. then there are the superultralighters, who revel in their sub-7lb base weights... to them, it's a competition... it's not that way to me... i see no sense in carrying more than i have to. yet i will carry binoculars and a paperback because i want to. but everything else i carry will have been looked at, thought through, and the lightest i can get.
hope that helps. and maybe/probably it was more of an answer than you asked for, in which case i apologize. i have a tendancy to give watch-making instructions when asked for the time...
That may be the best summary of lightweight backpacking I have ever seen. It reviews the practical reasons behind why people do it and the benefits. Thank you very much for your input.
[quote=irritable_badger
Also how many, if any, extra stakes do you carry?[/quote]
I_B I'd take just nuff of them ground hog stakes to get yo tent erected then carve what you need for the rest if wt is a concern other wise I'd take em all .they are the best durable lite wt stakes i,ve ever used goniing in and coming back outda ground.gutter nails r a birch to get outta the ground.
[quote=Seeker]
That may be the best summary of lightweight backpacking I have ever seen. It reviews the practical reasons behind why people do it and the benefits. Thank you very much for your input.
your're welcome. and thank you for your kind words.. glad it was of use.
btw, if i take my stock hammock tarp (Hennessy), i only "need" 2 stakes, though i usually take all 4 (2 for side hammock tie outs, 2 for tarp tie outs).
if i take the larger 8 x 10 tarp (I don't yet own an 8 x 8, which would be my next experiment), i "need" 4 but would probably take 8 (you need to tie down at least the 4 corners, you can live without the two middle tieouts, but it will be saggy, and you can also live without the side hammock tieouts too, which, if you've not lost track of the count, gives you a total of 8 possible, 4 critical).
RockyTrail
03-03-2006, 15:26
The Art of Ultralighting, page 23:
The "real" way to go ultralite is to carry only 2 stakes (0.88 grams).
Then at 3 am, you get up and "borrow" a few from your neighbor's tent! :D
(just kidding, as I duck!)
i have used ultra lite titanium stakes like these
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/lazr_hi_vis_ultralight_titanium_tent_stakes.html
but now use these msr ground hogs
http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=12276843&parent_category_rn=4500663&vcat=REI_SEARCH
the titainium are far liter and i only carry 2 to 4 stakes,i use grounds hogs because the work in rocky hard ground,the titainum stake are worthless,i will not use them anymore:cool: neo
Here's the deal. My new MSR tent came with these tiny "Needle" stakes that don't seem to hold well in soft or really rocky dirt and they don't have any flag or pull to facilitate finding and/or removing them; they also only weigh .176 ozs each. The stakes on my other MSR tent are the "Ground Hog" style. They have proven extremely effective in just about every condition and they have the reflective flag/pull for easy location/removal but they weigh .71 ozs each. Is the weight difference between the stakes really significant or is this getting into an insanely esoteric "numbers game" that is more fun than practical?
Also how many, if any, extra stakes do you carry?
this is the way to go:cool: neo
http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=12276843&parent_category_rn=4500663&vcat=REI_SEARCH
irritable_badger
03-03-2006, 15:33
this is the way to go:cool: neo
http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=12276843&parent_category_rn=4500663&vcat=REI_SEARCH
I have been using them for years with my other MSR tent and you are right, they rule. I was curious because my new MSR tent came with lightweight "needle" stakes. I'm just going to use my Ground Hog's.
The Art of Ultralighting, page 23:
The "real" way to go ultralite is to carry only 2 stakes (0.88 grams).
Then at 3 am, you get up and "borrow" a few from your neighbor's tent! :D
(just kidding, as I duck!)
that was funny... we used to 'borrow' tow hooks like that when i was a tanker... just before a sister company/troop would rotate up to the czech border for a month of patrolling duty, some of our hooks would disappear in the night... so you learned to take them off yourself for a few days prior to their rail-loading their stuff, and hide them inside a locker... lost antenna sections that way too... we had a saying... "if it's not nailed down, it's mine... and if i can pry it up, it's not really nailed down..."
How about this 3-pack?
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/easton_tubular_al_stakes.html