Has anyone ever tried making a better sleeping pad? I’ve yet to find one that lets me sleep through the night, unless it has been a really long day, the kind where you just pass out on top of your sleeping bag. I’m a boney shouldered guy that doesn’t have a whole lot of natural padding and usually end up waking up every few hours to roll over. Thermarests just squish flat at pressure points and squeeze the padding to where it’s not needed. Ridgerests are a little better, but still not exactly comfortable. What about a fairly dense closed cell foam rubber material for a bottom layer that wouldn’t compress down to nothing and a layer of open cell foam on top of it for weight savings? You could probably use a spray adhesive, like the headliner type, to glue the two together and then cut it down to whatever shape you desire. Maybe even sew up a silnylon cover for the whole thing. Ideas? :-?


Wyatt

Walmart makes a pad with CCF on bottom and OCF on top. Search neo's gallery here for a picture - it's the yellow and blue one.

This may not be suitable for your hiking preferences, but I recently switched to the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core pad (http://www.bigagnes.com/str_pads.php?id=ia). It is a 2.5 inch thick inflated mattress with Pirmaloft insulation inside. It has to be manually inflated every night, but it is extremely comfortable and warm. The male dino uses a Thermorest Pro 4 - same weight as my pad and more expensive, but not nearly as comfortable.

Dino, have you had those pads near the lower temp limit? I wonder how the insulation compares between the two.

I've been happy with the Exped Downmat 7 in the hammock, and it was ok on the ground - but I still woke up kinda stiff. But at 31 oz it's quite a bit heavier than the Walmart OCF/CCF combo pad.

on last weeks section hike and slept in a tent for the first time in years :(
it wasnt bad, had to use the gear, and every now and then i need to remind myself of how sweet the hammock realy is. I used the downmat 9 and even it is not wide enough for me in the hammock, plus pumping it takes time too...with the LLP i can keep the entire sleep kit in one cylinder excepting the McCat.
rememberd another thing i dont like about tents, having to get down and crawl into them...with the hammock set up high i just push the whole rig up, drap it over my head, center the slit, poke my head in and then sit down and lay back....i think i hate having to crawl/kneel to get into a tent even more than sleeping in one...naysayers say what you want, the hammock is a higher form of evolution.

Dino, have you had those pads near the lower temp limit? I wonder how the insulation compares between the two.
I used the BA pad on Mt. Mitchell, NC last Monday. Temp dropped to 31 F / -1 C - I'm a really cold sleeper and I was toasty - I slept better than I have ever slept on any pad. I haven't had the pad out in the low 20 F / -5 C range yet as I've very recently started backpacking again after nearly two years due to a serious auto accident.

Not to change the subject...perhaps to simply enlarge your solution set thinking for a comfortable night...

Hammock sleepers lay in comfort, sleep thru the night and wake up refreshed and without aches and pain...plus they have a chair to sit in... and walk all day with comparatively lighter packs, assuming they were tenters with pads in the past.

Even better heavenly cloud like luxury, condensation/moisture free, hassle free entry and exit is enjoyed by those who get beyound the pad and use under insulation systems such as Pea Pods or under quilts.

HYOH....Enjoy nature's beauty, sleep softly, high and dry, and walk lightly.

Pan

Not to change the subject...perhaps to simply enlarge your solution set thinking for a comfortable night...

Hammock sleepers lay in comfort, sleep thru the night and wake up refreshed and without aches and pain...plus they have a chair to sit in... and walk all day with comparatively lighter packs, assuming they were tenters with pads in the past.

Even better heavenly cloud like luxury, condensation/moisture free, hassle free entry and exit is enjoyed by those who get beyound the pad and use under insulation systems such as Pea Pods or under quilts.

HYOH....Enjoy nature's beauty, sleep softly, high and dry, and walk lightly.

Pan

:D i love hammocking,like sleeping on a cloud.:cool: neo

I also purchased a Big Agnes air core. Got the extra sized one as I my self am extra sized. Paid nearly 100 beans for it but it was worth every penny. Actually the mannual blow up is not that bad. It collapses down into a really small pack and weights in at 2lb. Far better that any pad I have ever used and I have used many in search of the elusive good nights sleep.

The more I get into hiking gear the more curious I am about Hamocks. I don't see how one could sleep on thier side. I get it if your a back sleeper but umfortunatyely I am a side leepin type.

Also take a look at Evazote foam pads. I have used them ever since the Go-Lite staff clued me in on it during my trip to Boulder.

Evazote is far more resiliant than other closed-cell pads.

Hammocks are certainly worthy of consideration for those who are seeking more comfort. However, not all of us can use them. I tried about half a dozen in the vendor area and the tent city. It took several good-sized guys to get me out of all of the ones I was able to get in. They truly aren't the answer for everyone.

I sleep on my side when home, but in my HH, its on my back and I'm out like a light. You can sleep on your side too, if you want. In actuality, I probably sleep more with a 20-30 deg tilt toward one side. You can do this if you just use some extra clothing to prop yourself up on one side a bit above your waist.

Not to change the subject...perhaps to simply enlarge your solution set thinking for a comfortable night...

Hammock sleepers lay in comfort, sleep thru the night and wake up refreshed and without aches and pain...plus they have a chair to sit in... and walk all day with comparatively lighter packs, assuming they were tenters with pads in the past.

Even better heavenly cloud like luxury, condensation/moisture free, hassle free entry and exit is enjoyed by those who get beyound the pad and use under insulation systems such as Pea Pods or under quilts.

HYOH....Enjoy nature's beauty, sleep softly, high and dry, and walk lightly.

Pan


Hammocks are superior, blah, blah blah. Enough already.

Okay I need to find out just WHAT I am doing wrong when sleeping on the ground in a tent.
I purchased the Big Agnes Air Core Pad 2.5" one and the Therm-A-Rest Pro 3 thats 1" thick, plus two different sizes of the CCF Pads.

I put down the ground cloth then set up the tent...place a 72 x 24 x 1/2" CCF pad down first then the Therm over that...then put the BA pad inside the Big Anges Sleeping bag. I woke up with a terrible headache, shoulder ache and hips felt like someone stomped on them.:(

How do you get comfortable? I need to get this down, for I am preparing to do sections of the PCT now and the thru-hike of the JMT.

This is not a joke or trying to make fun of sleeping in a tent.
How can I get some sleep and not wake up so sore and stiff?
Do I just need to hike till I drop, so I don't remember falling asleep?
Do I need to drink each night till I can't feel anything?

What does everyone do that they can say they sleep so comfortably, on this pad or that. I read all the reviews so picked the air pads for that reason.
I put out all this money out on 4 pads and not even all four make me comfortable. Am I using too many? Should I use only the BA ? I do not blow it completely up either.

Hana, I feel your pain.
Been through all you described. The best I have come up is using the big agnes by its self. Blow that baby up as much as you can then blow it up some more.
When mine came in the mail I naturally tried it out at home imediately and frankly was dis appointed. Much to my suprise and delight I found it more comfortable once I actually used it in the field.
Hopes this helps. If not, theres always hospital beds you might be able to lease. though they tend to be on the heavy side.

hee hee I love that hospital bed idea!!
Thank you cannonball I will try just the one BA pad by itself :)

{{{ Hana }}} I use the BA insulated air core. I tried under-inflating it once because the company that sold it to me said it was 'too bouncy' if inflated all the way. I felt like you describe the following morning. Since then I've inflated as tight as I can get it and I've slept quite comfortably since.

If you have the uninsulated BA, I would think a closed foam pad under the BA fully inflated would keep you warm and comforable.

Great Thanks so much Frolicking Dinosaurs..that was what I was told also to underinflate it...next week out I will blow that baby up tight and hope for the best.
I have got to adjust to sleeping on the ground and I may look for a softer place...dreams of thick soft grass with no stones :P

Recently, I've been sleeping on a normal Therm-a-rest Ridgerest (the one with one side green, one side black). It's a little hard on the shoulder and hip since I sleep on my side, but if I tilt over a bit so I'm half on my side and half on my stomach then the pressure points are not nearly so sore in the morning. I curl up my bottom arm under my head to make a pillow and slightly bend my knees too. I think that this spreads out weight better. This works best for me.

Thanks for all the feedback.

I may have to try the hammock thing sometime. It sure seems to have a cult like following, based upon some of the other posts here.

Years ago, a friend of mine and I did a section of New Hampshire and they took along a "EMS Crash Pad" that felt like it was some kind of open cell foam in a nylon sleeve. Not the lightest thing ever, but it sure was much nicer to lay on than my Ridgerest. Every time I woke up during the night and looked over, they were sleeping like a rock. Judging by the EMS website, they've replaced the design with a Thermarest variant and don't make the "old school" one anymore.

I'll have to find a source for some different varieties of foam and see what I can cook up.

thanks,

Wyatt

...Judging by the EMS website, they've replaced the design with a Thermarest variant and don't make the "old school" one anymore...

A local sporting goods store (Big 5) carries these pads, but I don't remember the brand name...pretty sure it's not EMS, though. They're still out there if you're interested.

I must say I am sorry Wyatt...I think they call that highjacking a thread or something.

I should of started my own thread with I need help learning how to sleep in a tent. Again I am sorry and here is a link to some foam available out there :)

http://www.knoxfoam.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/closedcellfoam/closedcellfoam.htm?E+scstore

No worries Hana_Hanger. :)

Wyatt

did you guys/gals using the BA insulated air core ever notice a 'warm up' time? i've used the Exped Downmat 1 time in the hammock and one time on the ground and noticed a significant warm up time..in fact in the hammock one night the warm up time was too too long.

did you guys/gals using the BA insulated air core ever notice a 'warm up' time? ~
Absolutely! At 2.5" thick, that's a large air mass to heat-up.

The uninsulated version is a giant heatsink. I'm not comfortable on in, except in the summer.

I'd like to add my $.02 to the Big Agnes story. I tried a hammock at home before my last section hike and was never able to stay warm in temps below 30. My back always got cold and I ended up sneaking back into the house in the wee hours. I got the KAQ too late to try out before my section hike and didn't have room in my pack for what is basically an extra sleeping bag so I ended up going back to a tent and using the smaller Big Agnes (2" i think). I tented into the lower 20s and never had a cold night. The water in my tent froze, but I was perfectly warm and also confortable. One point of importance. When you inflat the BA you are blowing hot air into it. (O.K., got ahead and make your jokes). Once you lay the BA on the ground and put your sleeping bag over it the air will cool and the BA will soften. I'd like to add my voice to those who suggest blowing it up tight.

I just purchased a 2.5" insulated BA for my next section hike and think that it will be even better and worth the extra half pound or so.

did you guys/gals using the BA insulated air core ever notice a 'warm up' time? i've used the Exped Downmat...

I got the Exped for when it's really cold - Since I had to melt snow for water, I just got it close to boiling and put a hot water bottle under my quilt and on top of the Downmat for a while before I went to bed. Nice and toasty when I crawled in! It was actually a softsided Nalgene inside a stuff sack, so it was nice to snuggle with all night, too.

This may not be suitable for your hiking preferences, but I recently switched to the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core pad (http://www.bigagnes.com/str_pads.php?id=ia). It is a 2.5 inch thick inflated mattress with Pirmaloft insulation inside. It has to be manually inflated every night, but it is extremely comfortable and warm. The male dino uses a Thermorest Pro 4 - same weight as my pad and more expensive, but not nearly as comfortable.



Ha ha ha ha ha.....I just sent Big Agnes a message on Sunday because I have gone through 2 Air Core pads in a year. Both times there was no detectable leak. The valve leaked slowly through the night and by 4 AM I was hitting cold hard ground. I had a tough time believing that this could actually happen twice so I thought maybe I wasn't tightening the valve enough. On Sunday, when I had to blow it up in the wee hours, I concluded that it was in fact the pad. Fortunately, Big Agnes has good customer service and has agreed to replace it, but they can't give me back a night's sleep.

As far as winter camping goes. I don't recommend the Insulated Air Corp pad if you are a cold sleeper. I froze my hiney off in early March while on the Tuscarora trail. The temps at night went into the single digits and I could feel the cold air underneath me. The pad is not designed for such cold weather camping. I wouldn't use it below 30 degrees. After that trip I bought a 2" thick thermarest. Yes it is a pound heavier, but I will be warm.

I did notice the BA insulated 2.5 having a bit longer 'warm up' time than the 1.5" Thermarest Pro 4. However, it wasn't significant enough for me to consider it a real problem at about 40 F (~4 C).

I have the Insul Mat Max 2.5" thick x 20" wide x 72" long, weighs 22 oz. I get more bang for my buck with this pad vs a Therm-a-rest prolite 3 or 4

Not only a cult following for some hammockers, but almost delusional cult in saying that everybody sleeps great in a hammock. I've seen others say different. It depends on the hammock and the person just like everything else.

Not many hammockers say it works for everybody. Most just say it works great for them, and it's worth a try for everybody. Let your bitterness go, man! :)

honestly i found a great way depending on where you are but if its summer than lay a light blanket under the pad i dont know how but it works great for me and in winter a thicker sleeping bag maybe try a kelty thicker mummy bag i have the clear creek and its like being on a cloud also if you are willing to add a couple extra onces it rocks

Walmart makes a pad with CCF on bottom and OCF on top. Search neo's gallery here for a picture - it's the yellow and blue one.

Campmore also has this pad....have not seen any in my local WM fin many moons.

....As far as winter camping goes. I don't recommend the Insulated Air Corp pad if you are a cold sleeper. I froze my hiney off in early March .... temps at night went into the single digits and I could feel the cold air underneath me. The pad is not designed for such cold weather camping. I wouldn't use it below 30 degrees. After that trip I bought a 2" thick thermarest. Yes it is a pound heavier, but I will be warm.

Congrats on your new mat. For the sort of camping you do, it is a better choice. The BA is rated as good to 15 F for most people. If I planned to hike in winter, I would buy what you are using. However, mobility problems + ice = disaster. I don't hike where ice is very likely and therefore don't need the heavier Thermarest expedition models.

My BA has never had the problem you note with your valve - slow leakage. I have heard some have had this problem and a problem with the seams several years ago. All said BA's customer service was excellent and I've not heard complaints lately. Perhaps they had a bad run and you were the lucky reciepent of two bad BA's?

I know, call me crazy, or call me old school, take your pic.

I use an old fashion blow up air matress. I bought a couple of heavy duty, brown air matress's at Sportsmans Warehouse a couple of years ago for the wife and I. They store easy (9" x 6" x 1.25"??) and it takes less than 5 min to inflate. If it's going to be cold I throw a cheap closed cell foam pad in for the insulation. In a cheap Wally World bag and this set-up I was sweating in 30 deg. temps. I have never had either of them fail.

A freind with more hiking experience than me ( I'm more of a canoe camper) liked the set up so much on our "minimalist" camping trip we took last fall he dumped his therarest and went and bought on of these.

CB

I use an old fashion blow up air matress. I bought a couple of heavy duty, brown air matress's at Sportsmans Warehouse a couple of years ago for the wife and I. They store easy (9" x 6" x 1.25"??) and it takes less than 5 min to inflate. CB

How much does it weigh?

C. Brice - I used an old Coleman air matress (with a cheapy blue foam mat in cold weather) for many years. While it was way heavier than what I now carry (about 2.5 lbs for the matress alone), it was also way more comfortable. If you ever decide to switch to lighter gear, check out the BA matresses - they come closer to your combo than anything I've found. The expidition style Thermorest are also quite comfy, but overkill for the sort of backpacking I do.

I have weighed it but that was last fall and I don't remember the weight. I think it was slightly less than 2 pounds. If I get done with my lawn work in time tonight I'll get it out, weigh it again, get more presise dimensions (stored and inflated) and get them posted.

I'd also like to know how it compairs in weight with the BA matress and a thick Thermarest pad. I know it weighs alot more than the closed cell foam pads and the z-rest pads. If anyone can post the weights of the BA and Thermarest pads I'd much appreciate it.


CB

Big Agnes page on insulated Air Core pads (http://www.bigagnes.com/str_pads.php?id=ia) 24 ozs for my rectangular model
Thermarest Pro 4 page (http://www.thermarest.com/product_detail.aspx?pID=41&cID=1) 24 ozs for male dino's model
(http://www.thermarest.com/product_detail.aspx?pID=41&cID=1)

Weighed and measured the air matrees today. It's a brown "Stansport".

Weight = 1 lb. 11 oz. Nylon storage bag included.
Size deflated = 10" x 7" x 2"
Size inflated = 20" x 70" x 3 1/4" thick

It has 6 air chambers and cost about $20

CB

Thanks for the links FD. If I do more cool/cold weather camping I will really look hard at the BA. Suprized they pack as small as they do. Added both links to my favorites.

CB

Since this is the homemade gear forum, how about this idea...there's a thing they sell, made in Britain as I recall, called the "Balloon bed" which consists of a very light nylon thing with channels in it, which you fill with the funny-animal type balloons. Very light. And no doubt more comfortable than any foam pad. Not much insulation, of course....What I am getting at, is, Google Balloon bed, and there's info on it...there are also links to some others who make their own versions...one guy in Australia, as I recall. Maybe Roger Caffin, who has his own site, with much interesting stuff.
I have the same issues with waking up stiff and sore...sometimes can't even bend enuff to get my shoes on in the morning. An Exped foam-air mat solved that...I think its about the same weight as a BA insulated air mat. Exped just takes a different approach, wrapping a flimsy air mat in foam.
Anyhow, I envision some ultra ultra light air bed, with strategically placed foam, for insulation. Could work, and it would be all your own.

hey where in walmart are you finding these pads? the walmart in my area i cound not see them and the store help had no clue about them. like to try one this week end as the nights are still a bit cold. thanks

I don't know if this helps....I use an Evazote Pad. I don't know why this stuff is so hard to find nowadays, but these guys sell it and that's where I bought mine. http://www.nunatakusa.com/lunapad.htm

I don't know if this helps....I use an Evazote Pad. I don't know why this stuff is so hard to find nowadays, but these guys sell it and that's where I bought mine. http://www.nunatakusa.com/lunapad.htm

Doesn't that foam soak up condensation during the night?

Brice, are you referring to ..
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2425700

I was thinkin bout pickin one up this week ...

hey where in walmart are you finding these pads? the walmart in my area i cound not see them and the store help had no clue about them. like to try one this week end as the nights are still a bit cold. thanksUsually right below the sleeping bags in most Walmarts. Target also carries an inexpensive generic closed-cell mat.

Wish Stansport would come out with an insulated version of that mattress

Okay I need to find out just WHAT I am doing wrong when sleeping on the ground in a tent.
I purchased the Big Agnes Air Core Pad 2.5" one and the Therm-A-Rest Pro 3 thats 1" thick, plus two different sizes of the CCF Pads.

I put down the ground cloth then set up the tent...place a 72 x 24 x 1/2" CCF pad down first then the Therm over that...then put the BA pad inside the Big Anges Sleeping bag. I woke up with a terrible headache, shoulder ache and hips felt like someone stomped on them.:(

How do you get comfortable? I need to get this down, for I am preparing to do sections of the PCT now and the thru-hike of the JMT.

This is not a joke or trying to make fun of sleeping in a tent.
How can I get some sleep and not wake up so sore and stiff?
Do I just need to hike till I drop, so I don't remember falling asleep?
Do I need to drink each night till I can't feel anything?

What does everyone do that they can say they sleep so comfortably, on this pad or that. I read all the reviews so picked the air pads for that reason.
I put out all this money out on 4 pads and not even all four make me comfortable. Am I using too many? Should I use only the BA ? I do not blow it completely up either.

If you just stay on your back, IMO you'll probably be fine with just a Thermarest. That's all I used (other than a groundcloth/tent/sleeping bag) during my thruhike. In that position, an air mattress is able to fully support your weight and keep you from having any of your body press against the ground. It's the turning onto your side that causes that undesirable condition.

in regards to the BA insulated aircore...

it is recommended you hang this over a hanger, with valve open, when storing it. some people will tell you to stow it under your mattress but this will in time crush the primaloft and damage its insulation

it is also recommended you use some sort of cover for the pad. your skin should not come in contact w/ the pad for long periods of time (ie, overnight). the oils in your skin decompose the material the pad is made out of

also, this may be obvious, but make sure you have the pad right side up. the primaloft works by hanging down from the top and giving insulation, if you have the pad upside down, the primaloft compresses and basically serves no purpose

i personally blow my up to full capacity and then when i lay down to sleep i let out a little air until i feel comfy. i absolutely love how small the pad packs down to. for me, packing gear is much less about weight and more about space/bulk. i give my pad 4 stars, as i do w/ everything i have from big agnes

Hiking PA,

Two questions

Where did you figure out the skin oil thing long term not being good for the mattress?

Which side is up for the insulation thing? My BA is chocolate brown and black, guessing the chocolate brown is the up side. Also where is this indicated?

I like my BA, but only when temp is over 30.

the outfitter i bought it from is a small little shop in port clinton. scott has vast experience w/ the gear there and is in tight w/ his BA rep. he told me about body oils on the pad damaging it.

the other i forget where i learned that. i either stumbled upon it myself or someone that i believed told me

Hiking,

So which way is up for the insulation to work better or properly?

brown up i believe. mine's not sitting in front of me, but i think it's the brown side up. the one that has the BA symbol on it