Packs that make use of your sleeping pad

[Chickenfeet]

Sooo, I'm in the market for a new lightweight pack. I have loved my Golite Gust with side pockets sewn on, but its just getting old. I know there are other packs that make use of the sleeping pad as part or all of the frame, but I am having trouble figuring out which ones they are. Anybody know? I would love to have big old list of possibilities to investigate.

Thanks all!

[mingo]

six moons designs' essence pack is wonderful

[g8trh8tr]

I have the Gossamer Gear GVP G4 that utilizes the pad as the farme also. I like the pack alot.

[Chickenfeet]

Thanks to both of you! I am now torn between the Gossamer Gear G4 and the Six Moons Starlite. For other interested parties, here are direct links to each...

G4 (http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/G4-Standard.html)
Starlite (http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=34)

I welcome comments about either of these or suggestions for packs like this that I haven't seen yet.

Thanks again!

[bigcranky]

I have a Starlite. It was a Christmas gift in 2004 from my lovely wife. How do I love this pack? Let me count the ways:

1. The pad-pocket suspension system really works. I keep my T-rest, a sit pad, and my 'office' in it, and everything is readily accessible.

2. The three big mesh pockets hold a lot of useful gear, and I can reach my water bottle in the right-side pocket without removing the pack.

3. The suspension is comfortable, and transfers a lot of weight to the hip belt. More so than the frameless rucks that I have tried.

4. The main pack bag holds enough for me to use it in the winter months in the Southeast. I wouldn't do a December climb of Mt. Washington with this pack, but a 4-5 day December trip on the AT in Tennessee is fine.

5. With the optional aluminum stays, the load lifters really work.

I made a couple of modifications. There is a cord over the main front pocket that is used to compress the load -- I replaced it with a longer cord so I could fit my Waldies in that pocket. I replaced the hip belt (which is fine) with a ULA hip belt (which is a little stiffer and has those great pockets).

I've tried a fair number of packs, and this is my favorite so far. (I sold my Aether 60 after I got the Starlite, if that tells you anything.)

Good luck making your decision.

--big cranky

[Chickenfeet]

That was extremely helpful, Cranky. At the moment I just have 2 questions...

1. Have you ever carried the max 35lbs? If so, how was that?
2. The G4 has this extra space at the bottom for letting your sleeping back expand, which is something I'm in the habit of doing, but it makes it harder for me to fit my stuff into a pack. How do you pack your sleeping bag?

Anybody want to sing some detailed G4 praises?

Thanks you guys.:banana

[Hana_Hanger]

oh no...now I really want a new pack.
Great info on that Starlight ...Thank you for this :) I think? $$$$

[bigcranky]

Hi, ChickenFeet--

I pushed up into the low 30-s with the Starlite on a 4-day section in the Nantahalas last March. It was fine. Was it as comfortable with 33 pounds as my old Gregory Shasta would be? No. Above 30 pounds or so, I find the pack pulls back on my shoulders a bit. But only a bit -- it's still pretty comfortable. (And at 28 ounces empty, it weighs a lot less than my heavily-chopped Shasta at 99 ounces. But the Shasta will carry 70 pounds without blinking. Horses for courses.)

I carry my sleeping bag in a stuff sack horizontally in the bottom of the pack. Lately I have been using a roll-top waterproof sack from Pacific Outdoor (is that right?) -- it's made of an odd sil-nylon with taped seams and a drybag-style roll top. IIRC it's the 13-liter size, which is pretty big for a stuff sack. I put my WM Megalite and all my clothes in this bag, and it just fits horizontally in the bottom. I have yet to try it with my new 5-F bag, but I think it should work pretty well. (As an aside, if you know how big an Ursack is, a fully stuffed Ursack will fit horizontally in the Starlite.)

Here is a photo from that March trip:

http://photoserver.facilities.wfu.edu/hiking/hikingphotos/776.html

Hana--

Sorry about that. <grin>

[bigcranky]

Edit -- looking back on my notes, it was a 3-day trip last March. But we packed for winter, so the Starlite was pretty well stuffed to the gills.

[Whistler]

Chickenfeet, check out a list that Vipahman put together here (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11964&highlight=sub-pound). All of the ones on the list are 1lb or less. Even if they won't handle the weight you want, it will at least give you a good lead on suitable manufacturers whose products you should investigate, e.g. GoLite, ULA, Six Moon Designs, Gossamer Gear, Mountain Laurel Designs, Fanatic Fringe, etc.

-Mark

[Cedar Tree]

How about my pack:

www.thepacka.com/strappack

It is a pack, a sleeping pad, and a hammock.
I don't really recommend it though, but it is kind of a cool novelty. I will have 1 at Trail Days to show.
CT

[Vi+]

Cedar Tree,

You advise, “My sleeping pad pack ... is a pack, a sleeping pad, and a hammock. I don't really recommend it though ...”

Interesting. This seems an adaptation of the suspension bridge design.

How is the stability? If you’re a restless sleeper, are you likely to end up sleeping snugly against, or even hanging about, some of the vertical suspension lines?

Are the horizontal lines, from which the vertical suspension lines hang, tied separately? To the same tree? Does it take an experienced eye to tie them parallel? How precisely parallel do they have to be? Do they have to be strung VERY tightly?

I sleep on my back and my knees aren't the best. By morning my knees are in pain since they have been suspended over the hammock sag caused by the two bordering contact points; my butt and my heels. Your innovation may take care of the "sagging butt" problem.

How much does your innovation weigh?

Why don't you recommend it? Really? :)

[Cedar Tree]

Cedar Tree,

How is the stability? If you’re a restless sleeper, are you likely to end up sleeping snugly against, or even hanging about, some of the vertical suspension lines?

I've never actually slept in one. I've just laid in them for pictures. I do think you could sleep in one without much problem, especially if you sleep flat on your back.


Are the horizontal lines, from which the vertical suspension lines hang, tied separately? To the same tree? Does it take an experienced eye to tie them parallel? How precisely parallel do they have to be? Do they have to be strung VERY tightly?

The horizontal lines are tied separately, to the same 2 trees. They don't have to be too prarallel because the pack straps that loop up and over this line are adjustable. I do try to keep these lines close to parallel, but if you get them off a little, it won't matter much.


I sleep on my back and my knees aren't the best. By morning my knees are in pain since they have been suspended over the hammock sag caused by the two bordering contact points; my butt and my heels. Your innovation may take care of the "sagging butt" problem.

How much does your innovation weigh?

Why don't you recommend it? Really? :)

The one I have right now, which is the one in most of the pictures weighs 2 lbs, not including the extra tree straps needed to suspend it. They add another lb or so. Why don't I recommend it? Well I do think it has some potential, but the last time I actually hiked with a strappack, it carried very poorly, there is not much adjustment capability with a strappack. I did carry an earlier version of the strappack with good success. Remember Medicine Man? I was carrying a strappack when I met you in the Smokies? The tree straps have been another issue I've struggled with. So far I've only used plastic connectors, all kinds but mostly side release buckles. They work great at first, easy to connect and disconnect, easy to apply lots of tension so the strappack lays flat, and lightweight. But they don't last. Once you have applied heavy tension to the buckles about 10 times, they break. I haven't done any work with the strappack in over a year, well ever since I had that miserable hike with one. Plus I am definitely a ground sleeper, so I don't have much incentive to explore it further, but I may one day soon. If I have time I might try to get some tree straps together in time for Trail Days, but I am trying to finish a custom eVent Packa for a girl in time for Trail Days.
I've never sold a strappack, but I have given away around 15 of them. Hammock Hanger has one, but I don't think she uses it.
CT

[KirkMcquest]

I believe there are several gossamer models that use the sleeping pad as part frame. I was under the impression that you have to use a certain type of pad? Can anyone enlighten (no pun intended) me? I'd hate to throw out my therma rest.

[Just Jeff]

Kirk - for any frameless pack, you can put the pad inside the pack and unroll it as much as you can. Then you put your stuff in the middle of the tube, and the pad provides the structure for the pack. For this kind, you need a stiff pad...CCF works better than self-inflatables (TRs), and I don't think inflatables would work well at all (DAMs, BAs, etc). Folding pads (Z-Rest) don't work well like this, either.

Other packs (like Gossamer Gear) have a pad pocket that you use for a folding CCF pad or for a small sit pad. Scroll down here and you'll see a pic of this style:
http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/G4-Standard.html

[MedicineMan]

in the Essence--as I type--are:
Main Pocket:
HH Lite Racer
Nest Underquilt
Four days food in sil-nyl pouch
Camp Clothes: Montbell Parka,Smartwool tights,fleece mits OR cap, down socks
Kitchen: Snow Peak Solo,Brasslite 2d Turbo,Alc. fuel
Top Pocket:rain gear- Pat. Specter,GoLite Rain Paints,OR Lobster
Big side pocket: 120ounce Camelbak bladder,Map
Small side pocket: meds,glasses,Aqua-Mira,hygeine
Hip Belt Pockets: Pentax Optio, MPE Player, 2 PayDays,lip balm
On the back: pair of Nike Usurpers

For framing I've got a 3/4 Thermarest which I dont need....so the question is what would you 'frame' this pack with if you dont need a Thermarest?

With this load and the above gear the pack feels fine

[Just Jeff]

You could replace the TR with a CCF and use it as a sit pad...at least you'd get some use from it.

I usually take my Speed (frameless) without a pad - I just let my quilt expand to take up any extra space and the pack stays tight enough (with light loads) to keep its shape. Have you tried just hiking w/o a framepad?

[Vi+]

Just Jeff,

You advise (Post #15), “(F)or any frameless pack, you can put the pad inside the pack and unroll it as much as you can. Then you put your stuff in the middle of the tube, and the pad provides the structure for the pack. ... Folding pads (Z-Rest) don't work well like this, either.”

I use frameless packs with the Z-Rest pad fairly successfully. I don’t like to use a Z-rest as a tube, as I do with other pads, since its “hinged” design appears to be a possible weakness viz-a-viz the stresses of equipment pushing outward against it. I just fold the Z-rest pad into a rectangular shape - two widths instead of the fully folded single width. The pad rides comfortably against my back. You do have to be a bit more anal about stuffing equipment into your pack, to keep the pad from sliding toward one side of the pack and, therefore, your back.

Maybe some pack designs behave differently than others.

[Just Jeff]

Good point, Vi+ - I was just thinking about using the pads as tubes and didn't consider just sticking the folded pad against the back. I haven't done it like that, but I think I've even read your posts before about doing it exactly that way!

[MedicineMan]

It not like i havent used the tube method with a closed cell pad before with the Golite Gust and Breeze, even the GVP-4 and the Mithril.. I guess I've been with the Luxury Lite so long I forgot :(
OK with the above listed gear--and forgot to list the McCat Delux with 4 days of food and 1 liter of water in God forbid a lexan bottle I was at 21 pounds 15 ounces....took out the ThermaRest and cut a 1/2 closed cell pad to fit the Essence and was at 19 pounds 5 ounces...and that's with a Montbell Parka....didnt have the camera in though, thats a whopping six more ounces......hey, its all fun! and we'll see the fruits next month when I hike Maryland. I do plan on subbing the lighter Jacks-r-Better UQ for the next but will still carry the Nunatak Ghost....

[Just Jeff]

A Lexan bottle?! *** are you thinking?! :p

That's quite a savings for no change in functionality, and at least you can use the CCF as a sit pad now...no worries about punctures or anything.

[DawnTreader]

MedicineMan..
I too am hammocking with an essence pack.. right now, I am experiementing with a torso length cc Gossemar Gear egg crate style pad. I have maxed this pack out with the gg pad (30 lbs) and there was no buckle in the pad, and it was very comfortable against my back. I tried a blue walmart pad, but I couldn't get it to store flat enough for my liking. I want to put my HH w/snakeskins in the large mesh pocket on the sides, however, I won't be using a pack cover... is this a good idea??

[Twofiddy]

Vapor Trail.... and we sell them...

Or Vapor KI for women and we sell them too...

By the way... I wanted to ask... if you and I thru-hike together, could we get married?? Since you did not marry that other boy that you thru-hiked with before??

Brushing your teeth twice daily and after meals would be in the prenupt.

Hows things going girl??

[Chickenfeet]

:eek:
:eek:
That would be like 5 times a day. Though the biological clock is ticking, I'm afraid you ask too much, sweet darling Twofiddy. :p

Anyway, I got the Six Moons Starlite. I'm gonna have to make/buy some new stuff sacks that I can compress in order to get all my stuff in. And I'm slightly annoyed that the aluminum stays bent after the first time I packed it full and carried it around my apartment. I bent them back, but this does not bode well. And I have to tighten the waste belt all the way and it could still be tighter. And I have shortened the straps as much as I can and I could still go shorter. I have learned some lessons here:

1. Never cross your fingers and hope that a pack will be small enough to fit.
2. Never cross your fingers and hope that it will be big enough to fit all the crap.
3. When ordering online, make decisions more than 1 month in advance of leaving to go hike.

Don't worry. I am determined to learn to love the startlite. It is very pretty and blue, and I'm sure that we will become friends at the expense of the loft of my sleeping bag.

[The Solemates]

Chickenfeet, check out a list that Vipahman put together here (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11964&highlight=sub-pound). All of the ones on the list are 1lb or less. Even if they won't handle the weight you want, it will at least give you a good lead on suitable manufacturers whose products you should investigate, e.g. GoLite, ULA, Six Moon Designs, Gossamer Gear, Mountain Laurel Designs, Fanatic Fringe, etc.

-Mark

go to the 4th page and scroll all the way down for the most updated version, which has a lot more packs than the original post.

[bigcranky]

Chickenfeet,

Aaack, the Starlite is definitely made with large guys in mind. SMD makes the Comet for smaller people, but it has a smaller capacity, which sounds like an additional problem.

These light and UL packs are made for people carrying a 20-pound base load, or less. Often much less. If you can't fit all your gear into the Starlite for a warm-weather trip, then maybe it's not the right pack for you. I'm able to get all my winter gear inside, but that's a 22-pound base load, and I'm not carrying a lot of bulky clothing.

One suggestion: call ULA in Utah and order a hip belt in your correct size. You should be able to replace the current hip belt pretty easily, at least it worked for me. The ULA belt will fit properly, is a little stiffer and more supportive, and has those great pockets right on the belt.

Good luck. I like the pack, but it needs to fit properly.

[SGT Rock]

Take a look at the Moonbow Gearskin. I love mine. So easy to use and everything is very accessable. It doesn't use the pad in the same way that most others use them to create a frame.

[jlb2012]

Chickenfeet - if you want to see a Gearskin in person (so to speak) let me know - I live reasonably close to Charlottesville up in Greene County and could meet you up in the park (SNP).

[Chickenfeet]

Thanks everybody. Unfortunately, I think it is too late for a pack change - I'm leaving in less than a week so the starlite is GOING to work.

As far as fitting everything in - I made a new sleeping bag stuff sack yesterday so now my sleeping back will take up about a third as much room as it once did. I will probably do the same thing for my clothes bag. The thing is that everything DOES fit, but it bulges out the extension collar and annoys me. My camp shoes are the most bulky annoying thing - I'm tempted to just leave them or switch to some crummy flip flops. (I have birkenstock style waldie plastic campshoes now.) Also my cooking pot is annoying.

My base weight is around 15 pounds (not including ice axe/poles/fuel) - so it's a compactness issue as far as space goes. Here's a question - when people compute base weight they leave out food and water - do they leave out fuel too?

Anyway, no worries - the ULA hip belt idea is a good one - I can probably get one mailed to me in California.

You all have been extremely helpful! Thanks to SGT Rock for the cat can campstove design online too.

[Just Jeff]

...when people compute base weight they leave out food and water - do they leave out fuel too?...

Yes, because the amount changes based on the trip length, but base weight doesn't change (except for seasons, etc).

[bigcranky]

Chickenfeet,

My Waldies fit vertically side-by-side in the front mesh pocket of my Starlite. I had to replace the compression cord with a longer one to get them to fit. Then I put small stuff *inside* my Waldies while they are riding in the pocket. Rain cover, wind shirt, that sort of thing. There is still enough room in the front pocket for my TP and alcohol gel, plus I can stuff a hat or some gloves or whatever in there.

Have a great hike.

[domnokmis]

Gossamer Gear Mariposa will use a Z-rest, 20" thermarest, and any Big Agnes folded so that it is 20 inches on one side.

[Chickenfeet]

Big Cranky,

Awesome. I will definitely replace that compression cord. Thanks!

[DavidR]

My favorite is the Gossamer Gear Mariposa. It works very well and holds a tremendous amount of weight for...well...the weight of the pack.

[BDT]

I use a Granite Gear Virga and I love it! I just cut a ridge rest in half then folded it over and slid into my pack.It can easily hold 25 lbs. And the pack is only 1 lb. 3 ounces.