I just finished my first stove. It was really my second stove , but the first one I made didn't work to well and fell victim to my frustration and the heel of my Asolo.

The one I made now is one with holes in the side (sideburner?) and it works very well from intial testing. I get jets out the side of the can in about 30-40 seconds using denatured alcohol. It's boiled about 2 cups of water in a few minutes (I did not time it yet. That will come later when I make more stoves to test against).

My first stove had holes around the top/rim (topburner?) and would go out as soon as you put a pot on it. I know now that that you have to have a space between the bottom of the pot and the top of the stove on the topburner design.

My main question is about the burner holes. How does the size of the hole and the number of holes (I used 24 holes in my sideburner design) effect things such as total burn time/fuel consumption and heat output?

I would also like to know if it would be possible to make the stoves just a little taller, say 5-8mm, to hold more fuel (cooking for 2 people).

I first tried rubbing alcohol and I think it sucked. Denatured alcohol worked great, but is there anything better than denatured?

Have you tried freezer bag cooking. Throw ingredients in bag till ready to cook. Heat up water pour in bag let sit. There it is food for two with out dirtying a pot. Clean spoons and trow bags in trash bag in pack.

Don't use isopropyl alcohol, it blackens up the bottom of your cookware. Denatured or methanol works best. I haven't tried whole grain yet but if the stove doesn't work you can always drink your fuel. I buy my alcohol from my Coop (Ace Hardware) or any automotive store will have methanol fuel. Ask for tractor/trailer air line antifreeze. It is used in the winter to keep the condensate in the air line from freezing. I have found that size and quantity of the burner holes does indeed affect burn time and quickness of boil. I think my V8 side burner has about 12 holes and the holes are made with the sharp point of a compass/divider. Very small holes. I tried 1/16" bit but that made to large of a hole. I also made beer can stoves with 4 small side holes for simmering for over 15 minutes. You must be able to play with your stoves even thou your mother told you not to as a kid. You just can't make just one!

There are SO many designs and so many variations you will go nuts if you become a stove-aholic. So you better quit now. It IS addictive. However, if you insist on messing around with home-made stoves check these links. They have especially good info. And don't be afraid to experiment and modify. Hole size, number, and placement will all modify a stoves performance.
Alcohol Stove Links
http://zenstoves.net/
http://hikinghq.net/sgt_stove/ion_stove.html
http://www.ionstove.com/index.htm
http://wings.interfree.it/index.html
http://www.csun.edu/~mjurey/stove.html

Also get some grade #0 or #00 steel wool, this rubbed on the stove will remove the paint and make the stove look chrome-plated.

Here's the pot stand I just made last night - might be useful for adjusting where your pot sits above the flame. This whole kitchen setup weighs 2 oz, including stove, pot, pot stand, lid, ground reflector, and windscreen. All that's left is a freezer bag cozy, fuel (denatured alcohol) and a fuel bottle.

http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearAlcoholStove.html

<SNIP>

I also made beer can stoves with 4 small side holes for simmering for over 15 minutes. You must be able to play with your stoves even thou your mother told you not to as a kid. You just can't make just one!

I remember finding a website here where the guy sold a stove made from 2 24oz Fosters cans (if you know the site a link would be appreciated). I thought about making one about that size and only putting a few small holes in the can. This would be a simmer stove. I like the large Fosters can idea because it would hold more fuel and that would be great for 2 people-keep one pot simmering while the other one boils.

Sorry, don't have that link anywhere. Just go buy an 18 pack of fosters and use the long weekend to tinker. :o) I've made simmer stoves with the small V8 can also. The beer can works better on my larger dia. .9L pot and the smaller v8 works on a smaller pot. Just try to keep the flames on the outside bottom edge of the pot. This will make it less prone to burning the food. I scorched my new TI pot by having the holes too big and the flame was basically concentrated on the middle of the pot. This created too much heat in a small area. Avoid this by adjusting hole size with hole quantity. Hmmmmmmmm, maybe that 18 pack won't be enough for a long weekend.

Check this out for an attempted fosters can stove that didn't go so well.
http://home.att.net/~ofuzzy1/alcohol.htm#foster

Hey, I have a stove that resembles that melted one. V8 stove with 12 holes lit WITHOUT a pot of water on it. Melted it down into a pile of aluminum. Don't burn a side burner without a pot of something on it to help keep the stove cooler. Aluminum stoves in the meltdown process don't smell very good.

This would be a simmer stove. I like the large Fosters can idea because it would hold more fuel and that would be great for 2 people-keep one pot simmering while the other one boils.
Check out the Ion stove for a good simmering stove. (in 2 of the links on a previous post) With a little practice and experimenting you should be able to get that one to simmer for quite a while. And on very little fuel.

I, too, have become a stove-aholic. I have tried a number of designs and sizes, with the primary foci being simplicity in design and adequate performance.

Several observations (some already mentioned):
1. Isopropyl alcohol is a nasty mess. Avoid it.
2. Different brands of denatured alcohol give different results, probably due to different blends of chemicals.
3. Small holes work best.
4. More holes results in a faster, hotter stove.
5. If the stove is too tall, it will not stay lit. The heat generated by the flame has to transfer to the bottom in order to vaporize the remaining alcohol. If the stove gets too tall, this doesn't happen.
6. Aluminum cans work better than steel cans due to better heat transfer.
7. A wind screen helps the efficiency of the stove.
8. Different types of windscreens give different results. In my experience, a screen which totally surrounds the stove keeps more heat in. The result- the alcohol boils harder, and burns faster. While this results in faster water boil times, I have found that a more open design that burns slower will boil water with less fuel.

In my experience, the burn times are pretty much the same for a given amount of fuel. It seems that the pressure that builds up in a typical can stove is fairly constant, no matter how many holes, or of what size, you have. Without this pressure, the stove would not function properly. Therefore, given a constant pressure, and burner holes of a constant size, the only real difference is the height/length of the flames coming from the burner holes.

If a stove with 4 burner holes gives a flame height/length of say 1", the stove with 8 burner holes of the same diameter would give a height/length of 1/2", 16 holes...1/4", and so forth.

The various gadgets for making a simmer stove only seem to be diverting the heat and don't seem to be extending the burn time.

In my quest for the "holy grail" of can stoves...the slow burning, simmering can stove, I have found that 12-16 burner holes of about 3/16" diameter gives good simmering capability, but only after the stove has been suitably preheated and about 1/2 of the fuel has burned off. The initial ignition of the fuel, especially with a preheat type of can stove, can be quite agressive until the stove pressurizes and the burner flames settle down to a steady burn, so the greater number of burner holes would tend to have a shorter flame height/length and not waste the heat to the sides of the pot.

Instead of wasting fuel while it burns down to a simmer stage, it might be best to plan your meal in two stages. Use the initial preheat burn to heat water for a beverage, freezer bag meal, ort whatever. Use the ater simmer portion of the burn to simmer cook thge other part of the meal...trail bread, etc.

These are my observations. Any comments? :-?

Personally, I ended up making the penny stove, as it seemed an elegant compromise between non pressurized stoves and pressurized ones without the risk of exploding a pressurized one. I think Sgt Rock's ion stove is probably the most rigorously tested/modified to maximize efficiency. Most stoves will use 1 oz denatured to boil 2 cups of water in 3-6 minutes, so unless you are a gram weenie or plan to hike a few seconds longer and therefore need to minimize time cooking, it all ends up about the same. The big leap is to convert to the alcohol stove in the first place. I also would recommend the penny stove cause it uses a Heineken Beer can :banana for the fuel cup, and therefore, you will want to make several stoves.;) The link to the site describing it was posted earlier in this thread.

I have found that 12-16 burner holes of about 3/16" diameter gives good simmering capability,

3/16" holes?????? Is this a typo?????

Thanks for all the replies.

I probably will end up making an Ion and a penny stove. I am going to keep experimenting with the height and holes of the Pesi stove. I found a link on making the stove that Antigravity gear offers and it seems to be a little bit taller than the one I am using.

I also looking at picking up a new cookset. I am looking at a set for Antigravity Gear (aluminum) and the MSR Guide (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39175139&memberId=12500226) (stainless). My local outfitter said an aluminum cookset would be better with the alcohol stove because they have better heat transfer. The MSR would suit me better because I would be using it with 2 people, but I like the cozies that come with the Antigravity Gear. Can you make cozies?

Can you make cozies?
Do a search here on WB with the words "windshield" and "cozy" both in the search box. You should find all you need on home-made cozys.

I have found that 12-16 burner holes of about 3/16" diameter gives good simmering capability,

3/16" holes?????? Is this a typo?????
No, this is not a typo. :eek:

I got this stove going at a nice simmer rate of burn, but only after 1/2 of the fuel burned off. My aim was to get a low flame height that is more suitable to simmering, rather than a blowtorch effect that comes with fewer, smaller diameter holes . You still need an strong preheat to get the pressure in the stove, so the initial burn is more suitable for heating water, rather than simmering. The 3/16" holes design was only used once. The larger holes gave a nice low flame height, but was easier blown out in windy conditions. A later stove with 1/8" diameter burner holes proved to be a better choice with a slightly larger flame height that was less effected by the wind.

Both of these stoves were of the top burner type, with open center, double wall construction. These were tested with my Goya Stove design that is posted at backpacking.net.

If you think that 3/16" is too large or a burner hole, how do you explain the Cat stoves with the larger (1/4"+) holes? I have built several of these and have been impressed by their performance, but I am still trying to figure out how they work so well. :-?

I am currently experimenting with stoves that slow down the burn rate by using various filler materials that would slow down the release of the alcohol fuel and give a longer, slower burn. I have used gardening Perlite (puffed mica), cat litter (Is there a Tidy Cat Stove in the future? :confused: ), fiberglass cloth (Bondo cloth), and various combinations of the above.

I'll post my results as I get some useful results.

If you think that 3/16" is too large or a burner hole, how do you explain the Cat stoves with the larger (1/4"+) holes? I have built several of these and have been impressed by their performance, but I am still trying to figure out how they work so well. :-?Maybe Mr. Flyin' Bryan's explanation (http://users.sisqtel.net/losthiker/pikastove/laminarflow.txt)of laminar vs. turbulent flow considerations in alcohol stove design would be of interest to you:

The Cat Stove ... uses laminar flow, so the vaporized fuel easily and quickly flows from the stove up toward the pot. This creates a chimney effect which draws large amounts of oxygen in the intake holes. The problem with laminar flow is that it's not very efficient at mixing the fuel with oxygen. There's large amounts of both flowing up toward the pot, but until they mix well, there's not much fire. Fortunately, the pot itself interrupts the flow, creating some turbulence. This means that much of the fire is automatically created right where we want it, on the bottom of the pot. This can be seen when the Cat Stove is in use. If there's no pot, an inefficient cold yellow flame shoots about a foot above the stove, but when the pot is in place, the flame turns blue (hotter and more efficient) and stays under the pot.

So cat stoves are efficient, easy to build, and have large construction tolerance windows ... other than that I guess they have no advantages.

Some clever guy (http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/7511/cat/500/ppuser/1030/sortby/d/sorttime/999/way/asc)who plays with fire (http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/6028/cat/500/ppuser/1030/sortby/d/sorttime/999/way/asc)has even down-sized the cat stove (http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/5422/cat/500/ppuser/1030/sortby/d/sorttime/999/way/asc).

Wouldn't "Plays with Fire" be a good trail name?

I remember finding a website here where the guy sold a stove made from 2 24oz Fosters cans (if you know the site a link would be appreciated). I thought about making one about that size and only putting a few small holes in the can. This would be a simmer stove. I like the large Fosters can idea because it would hold more fuel and that would be great for 2 people-keep one pot simmering while the other one boils.

I think this is the one you'r talking about. It's called the Sketti: http://www.minibulldesign.com/fs2.htm

Maybe Mr. Flyin' Bryan's explanation (http://users.sisqtel.net/losthiker/pikastove/laminarflow.txt)of laminar vs. turbulent flow considerations in alcohol stove design would be of interest to you:

Good reading...thank you for posting the link. I've always wondered how you got you trail name? :-? Must be an interesting story there! :D

Another cat stove:


http://hearth.com/gallery/pics/gasstoves/source/cat-stove.html

;)

Both of these stoves were of the top burner type, with open center
Aaahhhaa, now I understand about the 3/16" holes. I was thinking side burner instead to top burner. I am now unconfused, I am.

I feel like I'm going crazy or something.

I was looking at the zenstoves.net the other day and I found a page that compared different alcohol stoves. It compared hole size, number of holes used, amount of fuel they would hold, etc. I found a link to Tinman's alcoholstove.com on the page.

I have been trying to find this page again and I can not for the life of me find it. Does anybody have a link? Thanks.

Nevermind. I found it. It was in the tools and supplies (http://zenstoves.net/Supplies-Holes.htm#JetSizes) section.

I feel like I'm going crazy or something.
That's the addiction kicking in. You are hooked. After only one week.

Yes, and soon he will have 14 links under his "favorites" to various alky stove web sites like I do. He will soon look for the websites with the videos of the stoves in action...like I do lol

Yeah, I have an additive personality when it comes to DIY stuff. Just look what happened when I got into headphone amps (I built all of these plus a few more in about 8 months.):CMoy (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/Cmoy002.jpg) (inside (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/Cmoy006.jpg)), Sexy CMoy (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/SexyCMoy012.jpg) (inside (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/SexyCMoy004.jpg)), Mint (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/MINT013.jpg), PIMETA (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/PIMETA_final2008.jpg) (rear (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/PIMETA_final2007.jpg))(inside (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/pimeta_precase014.jpg)). I am still working on several projects including a tube headphone amp. Don't get me started on the audio cables...

I have made about 3 pepsi can stoves so far and they work well. I made my first cat stove the other day. I am attempting to make and adjustable simmer ring (simmer ring closed (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/CatStove022.jpg), simmer ring open (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/CatStove019.jpg)) but so far it has not worked to well so I have been using a normal simmer ring for this stove and it works great. Check out my stand (pic 1 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/CatStove008.jpg), pic 2) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/CatStove003.jpg). Here's a pic (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/CatStove014.jpg) with the can inside. The stand keeps the stove centered in the stand. I plan on removing some of the wire around the sides of the stand.

IMHO, the cat stove is the best stove so far. I was able to get it to simmer for about 22 mins. using about 1/2oz of fuel.


So yeah my name is Jason and I am DIY junkie.:jump