lymes disease

[simon]

Hi, i was wondering how you discover you had lymes? I was hiking two weeks ago and now i've had a low grade fever for four days.

[saimyoji]

follow this link:

http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/lyme/test.html

Go to your doctor, get checked out as it may be something simple, then ask about the test.

[orangebug]

The test is not all that reliable, and shouldn't be considered essential for diagnosis. See a doc, look for rashes, make sure you let the doc know your risk factors for Lyme disease - rather than jumping to conclusions.

[bigcranky]

The test isn't reliable, but having a second test made 6 weeks after the first, and comparing the results, can be a pretty reliable way to know if you've had Lyme disease. Needless to say, if you have the risk factors, and you have the symptoms (fever, mostly), even without the rash, I hope that most doctors will treat for Lyme or RMSF even with a negative first test result. If you have either one, the downside of not treating it can be pretty severe.

I went through this last summer. Very high fever, chills, but no rash. Went to the doctor, he says it can't be Lyme disease, you don't have a rash. Test results negative. Ended up in the ER that weekend, even higher fever. Lots of tests to rule out other things, then the ER doc told me that it's probably RMSF, since that's much more prevalent in North Carolina than Lyme. I got a 2-week course of antibiotics, which will treat either one, so it's all good. Came home to find a bullseye rash on my left calf. Hmmm. Went back to my doc, that's not Lyme disease says he, your tests were negative. He sends me to an 'infectious disease specialist' who looks at the pictures of the rash and says, that's not Lyme, wrong rash. Takes a new blood sample after 6 weeks, sends it off to the Mayo Clinic, and it comes back, hey, I had Lyme disease after all.

BTW a fairly significant minority of people with Lyme disease never have a rash, or never find one -- it could be anywhere on your body, under your hair, or in various other places where most people won't (or can't) look.

The outcome for me was fine, the antibiotics took care of it before I eventually found out what I had.

[saimyoji]

Actually, if you read down all the way through the details of the test, especially the Western Blot and DNA analysis, this is the perfect way to tell if you've been exposed to the bacteria that causes Lyme disease. Will your doc want to do these expensive tests? Probably not, but I would insist, considering the alternative.

[rambunny]

Most Doctor's near the trail would hand you Doxycline with the symptoms you have-run don't walk to the Dr. I ignored the symptoms and wasn't diagnosed for 2 1/2 months-believe me you don't want to go down that blue blaze. Good Luck

[FurTrappers]

Listen to the advice, go straight to your family doctor and ask for the antibiotic! Its only a 2 week deal. If he's not willing to give it to you, go find another doctor! DON'T take no for an answer! Waiting around for some test that might show something isn't a smart option. If treated early, most cases can be cleared up right away. Then go back out and play in the woods some more!

If you put it off, or think its no big deal, you might end up paying big time! I'm still finding that out the hard way 10 years later!!!

BTW, there's a pretty good layout in Backpacker this month about Lyme Disease. If you get a chance to read it, check out the personal story from the Park Ranger,(I think?). In some crazy way it's nice to know that others are dealing just like you are. Makes getting through the rough days a little easier.
Fur....

PS.-- Hey Rambunny, how are you doing? Are you still having problems, or have they cleared up?

[Amigi'sLastStand]

I agree, find a doctor who will treat first, test second. Doctors have to report Lyme disease cases to the CDC and state agencies. So they feel they need to test to be sure. Screw that. My doc will treat first while testing. Find a doc with some cajones.

[orangebug]

This is the routine. It is pennies to treat. Testing is very expensive, and of poor specificity and reliability. The problem I hear of most is docs who get upset that a patient "makes" their diagnosis and tells them what to write and how to treat a group of non-specific symptoms. This is understandable given the hysterics of some Lyme advocates over the years. The tests and vaccine have probably mislead and harmed more people than the spirochete.

[Amigi'sLastStand]

This is the routine. It is pennies to treat. Testing is very expensive, and of poor specificity and reliability. The problem I hear of most is docs who get upset that a patient "makes" their diagnosis and tells them what to write and how to treat a group of non-specific symptoms. This is understandable given the hysterics of some Lyme advocates over the years. The tests and vaccine have probably mislead and harmed more people than the spirochete.
That statement is exactly the truth.

[fireboy]

Here is photo showing placement of tweasers close to head of tick
V
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20020815/643.html Tick Removal


Here are a few more good links:

http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~acarolog/tickgone.htm Tick Removal


http://www.gvta.on.ca/ticks.html Tick Removal

I believe all three articles say don't apply heat or products of any kind.

[simon]

After four day a rash did occur under my arm pit of all places (not a bulleye rash). So now i convinced the doctor to give me the test and start me on some meds.

[TIDE-HSV]

it seems to be a bumper year for ticks. Global warming, probably. We just got back from a weekender in the Savage Gulf Natural Area of SE TN. I picked four off (two varieties) myself, and six off my wife. One party member had ten picked off by her son (he had three), and one other hiker had over a dozen picked off by his wife. Most were small red nymphs, with about a third being Lone Star ticks...

[rambunny]

Doing Great Furtrapper-you know more than most about the relapses but i'm doing great enough to be caretaker this year with Aqua at The Cabin in East Andover Maine. I'll never forget how hard you and your wife tried to overcome Lyme and thru hike. I was so frustrated by the Dr in Indy i ended up yelling at her You won't ignore this and turn me into Furtrapper! I'm sure she's still wondering what that ment.Happy Trails

[LIhikers]

When my wife had Lyme disease she had a low grade fever that would come and go and no matter how much sleep she got she was always tired.

[hopefulhiker]

If my dog can be vaccinated against lyme disease and giardia why can't I be vaccinated for these things too?

[orangebug]

I'm not sure your dog can get lyme disease or the vaccine. You can't get it as the company (Pfizer) that made Lymerix took it off the market due to low demand, high reported incidence of adverse effects and high cost. It required 3 shots over a year, and only provided partial immunity.

Giardia is a different kettle of fish. While you can get your dog vaccinated, many wonder why you would bother. Even among us hikers, there are many more things to make us squirt than giardia - hence limited benefit from a vaccine.

[TIDE-HSV]

my one case of Giardia came from a lake in WY, but, if I'd had the vaccine, I probably would have come down with something else. I boiled my drinking water but rinsed my utensils with lake water - dumb...!

[Critterman]

I'm not sure your dog can get lyme disease or the vaccine.

Yes, it is very common in dogs in northern virginia. Yes, there is a canine vaccine but it is not particularly effective.

[Sardenia]

I agree, find a doctor who will treat first, test second. Doctors have to report Lyme disease cases to the CDC and state agencies. So they feel they need to test to be sure. Screw that. My doc will treat first while testing. Find a doc with some cajones.
Hello, who is your doctor? We, my husband & I, live in Eustis, FL, were out on a local trail yesterday and pulled off >20 ticks, super tiny little things too. My husband ended up having to shave his legs, etc, just so we could look very closely at his skin for the extremely tiny ticks. I'd appreciate the name of a doc who treats then tests. Thanks a lot in advance. Lara

[Amigi'sLastStand]

Hello, who is your doctor? We, my husband & I, live in Eustis, FL, were out on a local trail yesterday and pulled off >20 ticks, super tiny little things too. My husband ended up having to shave his legs, etc, just so we could look very closely at his skin for the extremely tiny ticks. I'd appreciate the name of a doc who treats then tests. Thanks a lot in advance. Lara
Ah, Eustis, I miss bike week.

I am in NJ right now ( dont shoot, I'm not a Yankee ).
In the Norheast, esp. NJ, NY,and Conn., it is easier to find a doc who understand the severity of Lyme's. Because most doctors dont think that Lyme is a problem in FL, you will be hard pressed to find a doc who even knows what to look for other than the bullseye.
I do not know if Lyme can be seriously contracted in FL as there are very few cases a year. If you or he have no symptoms, dont worry. Just because you get a tick on you doesnt mean you need to be treated for anything. I dont now how much you camp or hike, but I've been to Juniper and Alexander literally 60-80 times and pulled of hundreds of ticks between me, my wife and her three kids. No one has ever gotten anything, so unless you see some symptoms, move on and dont worry.
BUT, please learn proper tick removal and prevention.
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/107/108540.htm

[Sardenia]

Thanks for the info! Yes, Alexander Springs, that's where we started our hike. It was nice despite the little buggers! Thanks again, enjoy the North!

[Amigi'sLastStand]

Thanks for the info! Yes, Alexander Springs, that's where we started our hike. It was nice despite the little buggers! Thanks again, enjoy the North!
I hate the North. But, thanks anyway!:D

[FoShizzle]

Ok this Lyme disease thing is scaring the crap out of me now. I was walking all through the woods yesterday marking house locations for a new development my Father in Law is building.(Don't worry the development is nowhere near the AT). I come home immediatley and take a shower and check myself. I find nothing. Then I'm sitting on the coach and I find a small deer tick crawling up my arm. No big deal. I go look and find another on my arm. O.K. still no big deal. Now I go take another shower, do another long inspection and find nothing. I even had the wife look over me and we still find nothing. So now I'm killing time again at the inlaws here on WhiteBlaze reading the Lyme Disease Posts and literally as I exit the thread I feel something crawling up my arm. I look over and it's a huge tick. Where the hell did that come from? I think I am going to just go ask my Doctor friend for the Antibiodics now and not wait for the symptoms to show up. I think ticks are some of the creepiest bugs out there. Does anyone know if Lyme Disease can affect your vision?

[FLHiker]

Ok this Lyme disease thing is scaring the crap out of me now. I was walking all through the woods yesterday marking house locations for a new development my Father in Law is building.(Don't worry the development is nowhere near the AT). I come home immediatley and take a shower and check myself. I find nothing. Then I'm sitting on the coach and I find a small deer tick crawling up my arm. No big deal. I go look and find another on my arm. O.K. still no big deal. Now I go take another shower, do another long inspection and find nothing. I even had the wife look over me and we still find nothing. So now I'm killing time again at the inlaws here on WhiteBlaze reading the Lyme Disease Posts and literally as I exit the thread I feel something crawling up my arm. I look over and it's a huge tick. Where the hell did that come from? I think I am going to just go ask my Doctor friend for the Antibiodics now and not wait for the symptoms to show up. I think ticks are some of the creepiest bugs out there. Does anyone know if Lyme Disease can affect your vision?

You sure those aren't cock roaches?

No, seriously, a buddy got Lyme disease down here this spring - as best he can figure from a tick he encountered from his dog (the smartest dog I know.) His symptoms were fever and ARTHRITIS - (hes a fit 36 yo.) Easily taken care of with antibiotics - tell tail sign was the bullseye rash.

We had a good time telling everyone that asked where he was, that "he got some disease from a d#$K. - but you'll have to ask him about it.":D

Don't get freaked out - I've removed many ticks from myself (attached), and have never gotten the disease. I only hike in long pants now (even down here in scorching Florida.) BUT BE VIGILANT!! Where long pants, DEET, and check yourself for ticks (just not too much!!!:D )

Jeff

[orangebug]

Take a very good shower and scrub every nook and cranny that you have. Then repeat. Deer Ticks take about 48 hours to embed enough to make the connection to transmit the spirochete. Tick checks are notoriously unreliable, especially for something as small as the deer tick.

[hammock engineer]

I have a tick question that hopefully someone has the answer to. How long do ticks live without food? I have a big rubbermaid container in my garage that I put my hiking gear in when not in use. If I pick up a tick hitch hiker, me may be in there a while.

Also do only deer ticks carry lyme? I heard that the type of ticks I have in Ohio are wood ticks and they may not carry lyme.

Ok 2 questions, but whose counting.

[FoShizzle]

FLHiker,

Thanks for the advice. It's just going to require more vigilance like you said. I do have 2 Boxers so they could also be the culprits. That would explain finding the different tick type crawling on me the next day.

Hammock,

I found this info quoted from the web.

"Different ticks are carriers in the different regions. Ixodes dammini (the deer tick) in the Northeast and midwest, Ixodes scapularis (the black-legged tick) in the South, Ixodes pacificus (the western black-legged tick) in the West and Amblyomma americanum (the lone star tick) found in several regions are all considered vectors. The is growing concern that Dermacentor variabilis (the American dog tick) may also be capable of transmitting the disease.

Here is the link http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/jake/mosaic/lyme.html

To me all types of ticks are possible carriers and shouldn't rule out one type. So the same precautions should be taken regardless of type.

[saimyoji]

Anything that sucks your blood is capable of giving you a disease. Best to protect yourself agains as many as you can. Soak ALL your hiking clothes and gear in Permethrin before and after hikes. Bathe in the stuff. Shave off all your hair and have at least 5 people inspect you head to toe daily. :eek:

Seriously. You should be concerned, but then you are just as likely to die on the way to the trailhead. Do what you think is reasonable, then deal with it.

OB: Shouldn't you do a tick check before showering/scrubbin? If the tick is so deep as to miss it checking won't be of much good, but it you find and remove it before it has a chance to vomit its stomach contents into your blood, aren't you better off?

[hammock engineer]

Thanks for the reply. I did some searches after posting the question. I did not realize how small some of the ones are. The ones I have seen and had on me in Ohio are noticably bigger. The ones I have seen are around the size of an eraser.

I guess the only thing to do is to save the tick if you pull it out and get it tested if you develop symptoms. Or get tested if you get symptoms and can't find one. Either way, just one more thing.

[FoShizzle]

The Deer ticks are really freakin small, they look like your regular tick but just really small. There is no way you can ever be for sure that you get all of them off your body. I was so surprised when I found one because I never really thought they were that small. The body is about the size of a pin head.

[Frosty]

tell tail sign was the bullseye rash.A bullseye is a positive indicator, but lack of a bullseye doesn't mean you are home free. Not every infectation results in a bullseye.

[orangebug]

OB: Shouldn't you do a tick check before showering/scrubbin? If the tick is so deep as to miss it checking won't be of much good, but it you find and remove it before it has a chance to vomit its stomach contents into your blood, aren't you better off?No, trying to find something as small as a deer tick is pretty pointless. The idea is to abrade it off before it has a chance to get a good meal going.

A full deer tick is the size of the "m" on a Dime.

[Blissful]

Reviving this thread - has anyone gotten the vaccine or recommends it? Just wondering if its too late to start the regimen for a 2007 thru or if its even necessary.

[orangebug]

The Lyme vaccine was withdrawn from the American market several years ago by Pfizer. It required 3 injections over several months, was not much more than 90% effective, had it's own set of side effects similar to chronic Lyme disease (suggesting that some sort of autoimmune illness is a component of chronic Lyme), and didn't make much money for the company. It was never particulary effective, cost-wise, as you would have had to inject hundreds of thousands of folks to prevent any sizable number of infections.

So, get with your primary care doc and discuss tick prevention and whether Doxycycline periodically makes sense for you.

[Blissful]

Didn't know that! Didn't come up on my Internet research. Ok thanks.

[ScottP]

*censored* ticks.

the size isn't a matter of the species--it's a matter of the point in the life cycle that the tick normally infects you at.

deer ticks in the nymph stage can be found--but normally only once it is too late. i did2-3x daily tick inspections (with a quick check over from fellow hikers on my back, etc. as well). I never saw or found the tick that gave me lyme.