Hammock Sleeping

[WadeH]

I am new here and have been reading through everyones posts. I am very curious about using a hammock when hiking and camping. I never have tried one. This may seem silly but do you all sleep on your back alnight with one of those or what. If someone is not accustomed to sleeping that way I would assume it would be difficult to get used to. I may need to stick to using my tent and pad. The thought of a hammock just sounds inviting though. Thanks for any input.

[SGT Rock]

You may start out as a side sleeper in a hammock if that is your normal position, it is mine in a bed and on the trail. But my experience is you will eventually "convert" to a back sleeper while in a hammock.

[Erro]

Also note that, as I understand it, you lay flat - not with your back curved like in the ol' back yard hammock job. This is because you lay at an angle with regard to the center line of the hammock.

Sarge (or anyone) feel free to correct me if I'm off here. My Hennessey is on order, but I've not used one yet.

Hammock Benefits:
1) Light weight
2) Small pack size
3) Comfort (no rocks or sticks in your back)
4) Don't have to find a flat spot to pitch

Disadvantages:
1) Need special considerations for cold weather
2) um... I think that's it...

-Erro

[Footslogger]

First off ...I personally am a "fair weather hammocker". I don't own or use any of the accesories necessary for cold weather hammocking. That said, I tend to sleep either on my back or on my side (on a diagonal).

'Slogger

[Just Jeff]

I sleep on my side every time I'm in a hammock. I'll often spend a few minutes on my stomach before I get up, too.

But like Rock said, after a few consecutive nights in the hammock I tend to stay on my back most of the time.

[DavidR]

I sleep on my back or side without any problem.

I recommend making the switch. While I'm new to hammocking myself, I have noticed a significantly better sleep when sleeping in one.

[brz]

in mountains, you will end up on your back or you will never get warm. hammocking isn't easy. you can hang head side higher than feet about 1 foot. this helps. in hennesay, this often puts you on exit. 'sitting' cross-legged also helps especially in cold weather.

if you cannot adapt to sleeping on back, hammocks aren't going to work for you.

[latte]

I am a stomach and side sleeper. While I cannot sleep in my hammock on my stomach, I sleep very comfortably on my side.

[MedicineMan]

on this past weeks section hike i asked the woman i was hiking with to make mental note of places you could use a tent---this between PenMar and Harpers Ferry....she noted very few places indeed....but the places where we could hammock (using the stealth tecnique of leaving the trail either side 50-100 yards) were limiteless. So there is a big advantage in not having to take the time or make the effort to find a flat (rare) rock/root free (rarer) place for the night. Also, since we were hiking almost until dark the hammock allowed us to select the trees much closer to dark saving time for hiking and not tent pad looking.

[Hana_Hanger]

I sleep on either side with a stuff sack full of my extra clothes as my knee pillow...but I do read while laying on my back in the hammock :D

[Just Jeff]

in mountains, you will end up on your back or you will never get warm. hammocking isn't easy. you can hang head side higher than feet about 1 foot. this helps. in hennesay, this often puts you on exit. 'sitting' cross-legged also helps especially in cold weather.

if you cannot adapt to sleeping on back, hammocks aren't going to work for you.

brz, it might be more accurate if you didn't project your experiences onto others.

Personally, "I" have no problem sleeping on my side in the hammock. "I" have found that trees in the mountains don't make me sleep any differently in my hammock than trees on the coast. "I" have found that hammocking is easier than tenting to sleep comfortably, once I learned how to do it correctly. "I" have found that hanging the foot higher moves me farther away from the exit, rather than putting me on the exit. "I" don't have to sit cross-legged to stay warm in my hammock.

YMMV, of course, but just because you didn't find it suitable doesn't mean others will have the same experience. I slept on my side at 10,000' in the Sierra Mountains at -10F and was so warm I had to vent my bag down to my waist, and my whole setup was only 7 lbs. Not hard at all.

[rpettit]

You can sleep on your side in a hammock that you lay diagonally in. I sleep on my back, both sides, even the fetal position which I find very comfortable. In order to sleep in the fetal position you will need an insulation system that insulates not only the bottom, but the sides of the hammock also.

[Pennsylvania Rose]

I have some questions, too. I just made Risk's $9 test hammock. The scariest thing I've done in a while is get in and feel it stretch while over concrete. It (I) didn't splat on the ground!! I haven't slept in it, but spent several hours yesterday afternoon fiddling with it and trying it out. What are the differences between the "test" hammock and a homemade Speer? I have a couple of problems that I'd need to address before I think I'd be comfortable sleeping all night. 1) My feet and head are higher than my waist. I don't like laying in a U. It's also hard to lay on my side that way. Maybe if I had more room - but the longest distance I can manage in my yard is about 10' from my kids' swing set to our deck. 2) My feet end up squished together. 3) Where do I put my arms? There doesn't seem to be enough elbow room to put them above my head, and I don't see sleeping with my arms at my side or folded across me all night. Do you get used to doing this? 4) I've read about attaching a ridgeline to keep the sag perfect. Does the hammock attatch to the ridgeline (so the the ridgeline goes from tree to tree and the hammock hangs seperately from it) or is the ridgeline a smaller piece of rope that runs from one hammock rope to the other? I can't tell from the pictures that I've looked at.

I'm sure I'll have a lot more questions, and, yes, I'll get around to buying the Hammock Camping book eventually.

[hammock engineer]

One thing to take note of here, someone said it earlier, is that hammocking is a little more complicated than tent or tarp camping. There is a decent learning curve. Throw in the cold weather factors, and there is a big learning curve.

There is nothing about hammock camping that you cannot learn by reading the old threads or asking questions. Just do some backyard testing so you can go inside if needed. Just give it time and you will figure things out.

[stag3]

All this fuss about cold weather, perhaps a bit overblown. For me, cold is mid-20's, so that is the limit of my experience. IMO, you need to think about top and bottom insulation separately. For the bottom, I use the walmart egg crate with no problem. On top, I use the sleeping bag like a quilt. For really cold weather, I use the egg crate and add a 3/8 inch foam pad (about 8 oz from bass pro shop).

When I have been cold in a hammock, it was because the sleeping bag was overrated-nothing to do with being in a hammock.

The HH is great for sleeping on your back or side. the only problem is if you are zipped in a sleeping bag. This makes turning over a bit trickey--this is why I went to the quilt arrangement.

[Seeker]

WadeH,

i've had my HH for about 2 years. i'm a side sleeper at home, but a back sleeper in the hammock, though i do roll around a bit. very comfortable.

disregard the cold-naysayers... like any new skill, it simply requires practice. the best place to do this is in your opwn back yard. if something goes wrong, you can either bail out into your own bed, or turn on the porch light, get what you need from the garage, and try something new like an extra pad or whatever. don't worry what the neighbors are thinking... (you can just scare them off with an exploding alcohol stove or something. eventually, they'll quit).

i use my sleeping bag (WM Caribou, 40*) as a quilt down to about 55*. below that, i'm inside since it's less drafty if/when i roll over. with a JRB underquilt and a blue foam pad, i got down into the 30s. i started getting cold because i'd reached the limits of my sleeping bag, not the insulation under me... i have no doubts about anyone's claims to have gotten close to zero in a hammock... it's simply a matter of getting enough insulation ALL around you, not just on top or bottom... if either is too thin, you'll be cold.

i sleep with the foot end higher, so i don't end up in a ball down by the entrance (you slide, just like in a tent on a slope), not the head end higher.

the stock tarp, tiny though it is, WILL survive an hours-long hard driving rain if properly 'battened down' and if you're hanging generally broadside to the wind. most 'windblown rain' problems are the user's fault for not hanging in a more sheltered area, like a grove of pine trees, or deeper into a forest where even hardwood trees will block the wind, and most of the rain drips straight down on you... sometimes it's unavoidable, granted, but then i don't go where there aren't trees...

for more hints/tips/users, yahoo has a group, and sgt rock's website is good. shane steinkamp's site has some video clips that helped me figure a few things out, and just jeff's website is awesome... he's proabably got the best 'collection' of hammock camping links, so that's a good place to look.

if you eventually want an underquilt, i can vouch for JRB's customer service... one of the jacks called me 3 or 4 times in one week, helping me figure things out.

[Just Jeff]

I have some questions, too. I just made Risk's $9 test hammock.

Congrats - welcome to the club!


What are the differences between the "test" hammock and a homemade Speer?

Durability. The test hammock is made to see if you like it, and the biggest difference is that it doesn't have a hem down the long edge. Leaving this edge raw means it can rip over time. If you're going to continue using it, I'd recommend putting a simple rolled hem down the long edges (better yet, all the way around).

Besides that, there's no bugnet. That's about it.


1) My feet and head are higher than my waist. I don't like laying in a U. It's also hard to lay on my side that way.

You probably didn't have enough sag. Don't pull the hammock so tight, or add a ridgeline. The hammock should be shaped something like a "U" before you get in, then you lay diagonally. This will let you lay until you feel almost flat.


2) My feet end up squished together.

On a level hammock, your center of gravity slides to the lowest point...right under your butt. This means your feet slide up into the end of the hammock. Hang the foot end higher and your body will stay more centered in the hammock lengthwise, giving you more footroom.

I usually don't use a bugnet with my homemade hammocks, and I'll often hang one or both feet over the edge of the hammock. Pretty comfy.


3) Where do I put my arms? There doesn't seem to be enough elbow room to put them above my head, and I don't see sleeping with my arms at my side or folded across me all night. Do you get used to doing this?

See if you still have this problem when you hang with more sag, hang the foot end higher, and lay diagonally.

My problem is that I'm so comfortable that I'll stay in the same position for hours. Last night, my arms were above my head and I didn't move around, so I woke up and literally couldn't move my right arm! I used my left arm to bring it down and tried to move from the elbow - nothing. I tried as hard as I could to move my fingers - a little twitch. Then the blood started flowing again and everything was fine, but it was pretty funny for a bit!


4) I've read about attaching a ridgeline to keep the sag perfect. Does the hammock attatch to the ridgeline (so the the ridgeline goes from tree to tree and the hammock hangs seperately from it) or is the ridgeline a smaller piece of rope that runs from one hammock rope to the other? I can't tell from the pictures that I've looked at.

I guess you can do either. I use a lighter weight cord for my ridgeline. I just tie loops in each end, the slide the hammock supports through those loops. I'm gonna put a picture of this on the site eventually.

For comparison, my hammock is about 9' between knots, 51" wide, and I last night I made a new ridgeline that's 7' end to end. Nice and comfy.

[Pennsylvania Rose]

Thanks for the tips. I had it backwards - thought tighter is better. I'm headed outside to play with it :)

[LULU]

Hi pennsylvania rose,
Try is the best place to relax, I so one guy in my last trip and I want one for my next time in October.

Lulu

[LULU]

I only used for short periods to take a nap not for long .

Lulu

[titanium_hiker]

the other difference between the test hammock and the speer is bulk/weight but definitely bulk. speer packs down smaller.

titanium_hiker

[Just Jeff]

Depends on what material you use. If you have 1.9 oz DWR it'll be about the same.

[Deerleg]

Congrats - welcome to the club!

If you're going to continue using it, I'd recommend putting a simple rolled hem down the long edges (better yet, all the way around).


If you like, you could try this technique as an alternative to the hem:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14374

[WadeH]

All of you are very intimadating. You talk about sewing and making your hammocks, guilts and tarps. I do not think that is something I could tackle. I do not even own a sewing machine. It seems that most of you think the Hennasey (SP) is one of the best hammocks. But is there a cheap version that works pretty good to try out before investing a couple of hundred bucks on one. And a list or something of everything that you would need along with the hammock to make the experience better. Thanks to everyone for all your input. This has been and seems to be a learning experience and allot harder than just setting up my tent and going to sleep. :eek:

[txulrich]

All of you are very intimadating. You talk about sewing and making your hammocks, guilts and tarps. I do not think that is something I could tackle. I do not even own a sewing machine. It seems that most of you think the Hennasey (SP) is one of the best hammocks. But is there a cheap version that works pretty good to try out before investing a couple of hundred bucks on one. And a list or something of everything that you would need along with the hammock to make the experience better. Thanks to everyone for all your input. This has been and seems to be a learning experience and allot harder than just setting up my tent and going to sleep. :eek:

I have a hennessey and love it. If you have an REI nearby, you can always buy one from them. If you don't like it, you can return it. Their policy is pretty generous.

Much above 70, you won't need much else. Below that you will want to have insulation, top and bottom. I started using my sleeping bag and a pad. I eventually went to a bottom quilt and used my sleeping bag as a top quilt. I have now invested further and have a quilt for the top as well.

At some point you may want to consider a larger tarp. I never felt truely comfortable with the stock tarp. I was always worried about rain sneaking in. So, I invested in a MacCat Deluxe and no longer worry about it. In addition, I gained extra room for camp activities if needed.

You may also want to consider a set of snake skins. They will allow you to setup/tear down camp a lot quicker. I am going to make a set that will accomodate my bottom quilt (HH #4s are too small). That way, set up is even easier. I can setup my hammock and be in and asleep while you're still staking out your tent, except for the all the racket you would be making!!

Having told you all of this, your best bet is to get one and experiment with what works best for you. We're all very willing to share our experience and to help any way we can.

[Just Jeff]

There are lots of cheap hammocks suitable for sleeping in - they'll be right next to the Hennessy at REI. Amazonas, Byer, etc. Or check out the Moskito at www.jacksrbetter.com (http://www.jacksrbetter.com) for a full-on camping hammock w/ bugnet for about $60...lots of people seem to be happy with the value of that one.

All you need is a hammock to lay in and a tarp to keep you dry. Then you can use a pad under you when it's cold - upgrade to an underquilt if you want to. Put your sleeping bag on top of you instead of getting inside. That's about it...until you realize how comfortable it is and start getting the extra goodies.

Hammocking isn't "harder" than tenting, it's just a new way of doing things. Remember the learning curve when you first started tenting? How to clear the ground, how to find good sites with soft duff instead of dished sites in overused areas, how to avoid drainage (did you ever dig a trench to avoid runoff?), which way to orient the door, how to pitch for different weather, etc. It was just as "hard" but you did it so long ago that you're already at the top of the curve.

And it's really not as complicated as we make it seem - some of us just like talking about the details. "Ask me for the time and I'll tell you how to build a watch" sorta thing.

[Time To Fly 97]

I evolved from tents to tarps to now...a HH (3 season only so far). Best sleep ever and you'll be hanging out while the ground dwellers dry out. : )

TTF

[MedicineMan]

i looked forward to each night in the hammock....
look at this photo here on WB:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=11623&catid=newimages&cutoffdate=7

notice the tarp is all the way to the ground, notice that i've hand raked a body size mound of leaves under the hammock....i set up the hammock much much lower than normal and got it right the first time (luckily), that is the hammock nestle into the bed of leaves (if you do this look for copperheads)....point is that depending on time of year and where your hiking there are other ways to stay warm in a hammock in addition to quilts or pads.

[Buckles]

Sarge, and all of you hammock pros, please weigh in...

I'm very happy with tent camping, but I'm always open to new ideas. I have a Shires Squall2 Tarptent, with a sewn-in floor and love it. Since I use my trekking poles, my total weight is 33 ounces. I carry an Evazote 3/4 pad and a Mountain Hardwear Phantom 15+. I'm 3-season good. No other quilts and insulation I see with hammocks. Another benefit: My Squall2 sleeps two and it's only me out there, so every night I can explode my pack right beside me on the tent floor. No gear exposure.

That said...with the hammock and tarp, quilts, pad, skins, blah, blah, blah, what's your TOTAL weight? I never travel with "hammock heads" ;) , so where's your pack and gear at night? Sitting out in a t-storm?

I willing to give this a try, but I'm not going to add lbs. to the journey. By the way, in pictures, the setup I've seen so far that looks appealing is the MacCat Deluxe with a HH UL (++ lbs.?).

Thoughts?

PM me, if you prefer.

[Chalumeau]

I'm certainly no expert (I'm an absolute novice to be precise), but I would encourage you to give the hammock a go. Had my first experience of hammock camping last week and loved it - the gear was light weight, cozy, easy and quick to set up and I slept far better than I have ever done on the ground (and for those of you who worry about sleeping on your side, it was not a problem - I tend to move around quite a bit -from side to side and sometimes onto my back and the hammock allowed all of this). :)

[MedicineMan]

Hennessey Lite Racer: 22oz
McCat Delux Fly: 14oz
Arc Ghost: 16oz.
Jacks r Better Shenandoah: 15oz
tot.=67oz or 4.12 pounds

[Just Jeff]

Weights here - http://www.tothewoods.net/HammockGroundWeights.html

You won't add pounds, but maybe a few ounces. How many ounces is a great night's sleep worth? When is the last time you had a great night's sleep in the woods? Not a good sleep, but a night where you woke up without a sore back and hips and shoulders.

But it's not for everyone - there are a few people here on WB that tried it and went back to the ground. Not many, though.

[MedicineMan]

most backpacks no matter how skillfully made (with the exception of the LLP) will still deliver a load to the shoulders-maybe reduced by the hip-belt but still a load pushing down ultimately on the spine (you know, knee bone connected to the thigh bone theory, its all connected)....having said that i have never slept post a long hiking day in the hammock and awoke to a stiff or sore back....

[Just Jeff]

Hey MM - I just put your setup on the Hammock Ground weight comparison page. Would you say that's good into the 40s?

[MedicineMan]

but you saw the pic where i made a leaf mound to increase the temps, this after a ham contact said it was going to be even colder that night....

[Just Jeff]

Yeah - that's a cool pic. Do you have a more close-up pic showing the hammock nestled into the leaves? My x-ray vision is fading so I couldn't see thru the tarp so well. That would be a good one for the stay warm page.

Good to see the Delux reaches all the way to the ground w/ enough room for the hammock, too - that would be great for snow camping.

[MedicineMan]

but no pic with the hammock nestled...could re-create but that would be too much like hollywood :(
I think having a tarp that can go to ground is very important....no matter how a-sym a hammock 'feels' it is still curved and ANY wind will create a venturi increasing windspeed and heat robbing potential....closing that gap could be critical on specific nights.....
Years ago (OK 2-3 years) i played around with a piece of sil-nyl that simply draped to the ground along the entire perimeter of the hammock---attaching where the bug-net meets the hammock material, where it hit the ground i used rocks,sticks,whatever to hold it in place---all in an effort to stop venturis....the problem was knowing how much material for each hammock setup, obviously for my preferred shoulder height setup it took too much material...if you knew the temps were to be low this simple 'bedskirt' or ruffle could help at an extra 3-4ounces for one that is a foot high....the goal again being to stop wind from going under the hammock...would be nice if no leaves are around....your thought?

[Buckles]

Chalumeau, Medicine Man, Just Jeff,

Thank you for the hammock advice. Jeff, thank you for the link. Great essay! It's worth a try. I've never been averse to new ideas. Now to try to figure out how I can leverage what I have into what I'll need. Re-use the pad? Re-use the sleeping bag? Time to do a lot of reading.

[Seeker]

I have a Shires Squall2 Tarptent, with a sewn-in floor and love it. Since I use my trekking poles, my total weight is 33 ounces.

HH ULBAsym is 32 oz.


I carry an Evazote 3/4 pad and a Mountain Hardwear Phantom 15+. .

evazote pad... how much does that weigh? a common blue foam pad is about 11 oz, iirc, about 15 if you add wings to the sides. is it nice and soft? i'm guessing not... i need a 1.5'' thermarest (about 2.5lbs) to feel anywhere close to comfortable on the ground.

sleeping bag's gonna be the same in a tarp or hammock. if you used a quilt in a hammock, you'd come out few ounces ahead.


My Squall2 sleeps two and it's only me out there, so every night I can explode my pack right beside me on the tent floor. No gear exposure..

i don't leave my gear out either, 'less it's nice out. all my 'extra' gear fits in the small single outer pocket of my gust pack, which fits inside the hammock with me. i can hang it on a biner off the ridgeline at the foot end with my shoes, and it stays out of the way. light, thermometer, and glasses go overhead on the ridge line. stove and fuel and food go up a tree in the bear bag. that's it... no storage problem for me. ymmv.

i came out about even when i swapped my thermarest for a hammock... tarp's the same, bag's the same. underquilt's 21oz vs foam pad of about 15oz, so that's 6oz heavier. thermarest was 2.5 lbs. hammock is 2. i think i'm 2oz to the good. however, as has been mentioned, what's a great night's sleep worth to you? what's the peace of mind knowing you don't have to find a flat campsite? how nice is it to not have to get up and go out into the rain to pee or take down a tent? how nice is it listening to an absolute howler of a rainstorm, and knowing that it's not going to get inside, and not going to splash up under your tarp/tent/bivy? how nice is it to not have to mess with setting up a tent? personally, it's worth the loss of the two ounces. if i'd started out using even a 2lb tent (VERY light) instead of an 18 oz tarp, i'd be up by about a whole pound... to me, it's worth it.

[Buckles]

HH ULBAsym is 32 oz.



evazote pad... how much does that weigh? a common blue foam pad is about 11 oz, iirc, about 15 if you add wings to the sides. is it nice and soft? i'm guessing not... i need a 1.5'' thermarest (about 2.5lbs) to feel anywhere close to comfortable on the ground.

sleeping bag's gonna be the same in a tarp or hammock. if you used a quilt in a hammock, you'd come out few ounces ahead.



i don't leave my gear out either, 'less it's nice out. all my 'extra' gear fits in the small single outer pocket of my gust pack, which fits inside the hammock with me. i can hang it on a biner off the ridgeline at the foot end with my shoes, and it stays out of the way. light, thermometer, and glasses go overhead on the ridge line. stove and fuel and food go up a tree in the bear bag. that's it... no storage problem for me. ymmv.

i came out about even when i swapped my thermarest for a hammock... tarp's the same, bag's the same. underquilt's 21oz vs foam pad of about 15oz, so that's 6oz heavier. thermarest was 2.5 lbs. hammock is 2. i think i'm 2oz to the good. however, as has been mentioned, what's a great night's sleep worth to you? what's the peace of mind knowing you don't have to find a flat campsite? how nice is it to not have to get up and go out into the rain to pee or take down a tent? how nice is it listening to an absolute howler of a rainstorm, and knowing that it's not going to get inside, and not going to splash up under your tarp/tent/bivy? how nice is it to not have to mess with setting up a tent? personally, it's worth the loss of the two ounces. if i'd started out using even a 2lb tent (VERY light) instead of an 18 oz tarp, i'd be up by about a whole pound... to me, it's worth it.

Seeker,

Thanks for the info. I think I'm going to give it a try. The Evazote Pad I use is 7.5 oz. http://www.nunatakusa.com/lunapad.htm

[SGT Rock]

Sarge, and all of you hammock pros, please weigh in...

I'm very happy with tent camping, but I'm always open to new ideas. I have a Shires Squall2 Tarptent, with a sewn-in floor and love it. Since I use my trekking poles, my total weight is 33 ounces. I carry an Evazote 3/4 pad and a Mountain Hardwear Phantom 15+. I'm 3-season good. No other quilts and insulation I see with hammocks. Another benefit: My Squall2 sleeps two and it's only me out there, so every night I can explode my pack right beside me on the tent floor. No gear exposure.

Great question. The first thing I would say is it isn't for everyone anyway. But I do it because I love the comfort and it is light, although I would never claim it is the LIGHTEST option.

Here are by basics:
HH tarp with trip tease added: 8.4oz
HH body with snake skins: 23.1oz
4 plastic tent stakes: 0.4oz
Enzolite pad: 9.6oz
JRB No Sniveler Quilt: 18.0oz
TOTAL: 59.5oz or 3 pounds 11.5oz - that is about 1/3 of my total base pack weight.

Now if I expect cold weather I add this stuff:
JRB Shock Cords: 1.2oz
Hungry Howie Quilt: 17.7oz - in this case the JRB quilt goes under and this quilt goes on my.
TOTAL (including previous level gear): 78.4oz or 4 pounds 14.4oz

And if I am going out in the winter here where there is snow and such then I add:
JRB Weathershield system: 14.4oz
Stuff sack for the system: 0.5oz
Emergency ground cloth: 1.0oz
TOTAL (including previous level gear): 94.3oz or 5 pounds 14.3oz



That said...with the hammock and tarp, quilts, pad, skins, blah, blah, blah, what's your TOTAL weight? I never travel with "hammock heads" ;) , so where's your pack and gear at night? Sitting out in a t-storm?
Another great question I can only answer how I do it:
Hammock is all set up, inside is my quilt and pad, and under it is the rest of the stuff, so all that is acounted for. That leaves my clothing bag, Gearskin, food bag, and some misc stuff.

The food bag is hung up, all the kitchen stuff is in it. The clothing bag is my pillow. The Gearskin is so small when there is nothing in it that it is either outside hanging off my hammock looking like a piece of fabric with some straps or it is inside a stuff sack helping to fluff my pillow. The misc gear bag is so small it is hanging from the risgline in my hammock where I can get to my journal, light, MP3 player, camera, or whatever. I also hang a water bottle there, and hang my boots off the ridgeline so that they are under the tarp and in easy reach. In fact the only thing of mine on the ground at that point is the stakes to hold out the tarp.




I willing to give this a try, but I'm not going to add lbs. to the journey. By the way, in pictures, the setup I've seen so far that looks appealing is the MacCat Deluxe with a HH UL (++ lbs.?).

Thoughts?

PM me, if you prefer.

I have a MacCat tarp but only use it when my boys are with me because then I have a community tarp for us to eat together when weather is bad. When I go solo I stick to my regular HH tarp.

[MedicineMan]

especially when you get into porcupine country....