I stayed at the hostel in Rutland a few days ago and found the people there polite, pleasant and hospitable. For around $15, it was good to have a shower and space to sleep away from the bugs, etc. Let's all try to be more positive--the old adage, if you don't have anything good to say, stay silent, is advisable. I have no axe to grind in this--only trying to practice the Golden Rule.

I stayed at the hostel in Rutland a few days ago and found the people there polite, pleasant and hospitable. For around $15, it was good to have a shower and space to sleep away from the bugs, etc. Let's all try to be more positive--the old adage, if you don't have anything good to say, stay silent, is advisable. I have no axe to grind in this--only trying to practice the Golden Rule.

i plan on staying there in september:cool: neo

I stayed at the hostel in Rutland a few days ago and found the people there polite, pleasant and hospitable. For around $15, it was good to have a shower and space to sleep away from the bugs, etc. Let's all try to be more positive--the old adage, if you don't have anything good to say, stay silent, is advisable. I have no axe to grind in this--only trying to practice the Golden Rule.

Greenmtnboy,

If you lost a good friend of 12-years due to the twelve tribes you might feel different. The people are polite, pleasant as you said but they will also sick you in the back if you don't become part of their belief.

It is a cult.

Wolf

Not only a cult, but an abusive, exploitive, diabolical mind control group. The devil always has an inviting smile, remember that. The "golden rule" you refer to should not allow you to let a fellow being come to harm or walk into a trap.
Cults r' bad, m'kay?

There was talk of a NEW hostel opening in Rutland this year ......does anyone know anything more about this?

Greenmtnboy,

If you lost a good friend of 12-years due to the twelve tribes you might feel different. The people are polite, pleasant as you said but they will also sick you in the back if you don't become part of their belief.

It is a cult.

Wolf

I stayed there last year during my thru hike. Great place, nice people and a very interesting experience. Thankfully no one tried to 'sick me in the back' whatever that means. Maybe they did and I just didn't feel it. I would recomend this hostel, it's in a great location, and is clean and comfortable.

My friends live in the Rutland community that runs the hostel in question. The other night they had THIRTY ONE!!!! hikers there...amazing, really.

They have a couple of people there now who came as hikers for a night; and decided, as mature, grown up human beings, that the life they saw my friends living was worth taking a closer look at...so they have been living with my friends for the last month or so.

This of many hundreds who have simply enjoyed the warm hospitality and moved on as they planned.

Both kinds of people...the vast, vast majority who stay a night or two and move on...and the very few who visit longer...have been treated with fairness, kindness and respect...even love. No one has been "sicked in the back", whatever that is.

If one of these people decide the life my friends are living is what they want...well, good for them!

Wolf thinks he " lost a good friend of 12-years due to the twelve tribes"...but if he was a true friend, he would have been glad to have his friend do what was in his heart to do, wouldn't he?

Some people who claim to be "friends", are a cult unto themselves...if they can't control what their friends do, they don't want them anymore, because they can't use them.

My friends in Rutland really enjoy being hospitable....and the hundreds of hikers who have stayed there this year, in general, tell them that the warmth and love of their community was one of the highlights of their whole hike...one of the nicest places they stayed on the whole trail.

Having been there myself, I believe it.

Wolf should find a new friend, and give his bitterness an honest burial.

Sincerely,
David Derush

:) i stay there last week,its behind the bus station,they operate a very nice cafe there also,i highly recommend staying there,the people there are very warm and friendly,i will stay again when i do the long trail in a couple years:cool: neo

stayed there a month and a half ago, and while the people are a little odd they certainly are friendly. I would stay there again in a heartbeat. Hubcap

They were awesome. Thier model is a beehive, and they take the good of that life with the bad.

My friends live in the Rutland community that runs the hostel in question. The other night they had THIRTY ONE!!!! hikers there...amazing, really.

They have a couple of people there now who came as hikers for a night; and decided, as mature, grown up human beings, that the life they saw my friends living was worth taking a closer look at...so they have been living with my friends for the last month or so.

This of many hundreds who have simply enjoyed the warm hospitality and moved on as they planned.

Both kinds of people...the vast, vast majority who stay a night or two and move on...and the very few who visit longer...have been treated with fairness, kindness and respect...even love. No one has been "sicked in the back", whatever that is.

If one of these people decide the life my friends are living is what they want...well, good for them!

Wolf thinks he " lost a good friend of 12-years due to the twelve tribes"...but if he was a true friend, he would have been glad to have his friend do what was in his heart to do, wouldn't he?

Some people who claim to be "friends", are a cult unto themselves...if they can't control what their friends do, they don't want them anymore, because they can't use them.

My friends in Rutland really enjoy being hospitable....and the hundreds of hikers who have stayed there this year, in general, tell them that the warmth and love of their community was one of the highlights of their whole hike...one of the nicest places they stayed on the whole trail.

Having been there myself, I believe it.

Wolf should find a new friend, and give his bitterness an honest burial.

Sincerely,
David Derush

David, my friend as a member of the twelve tribe, was told for four years her place was under a man. Her place was to do “women chores” , cooking, cleaning, raising children. Her option that she shared with me didn’t matter because it was the men in the community that knew “better” then her. She was told what to wear, what she was to teach the children, even what email account she was to use and finally who she could talk to. As you said, “Some people who claim to be ‘friends’ are a cult unto themselves”.

The twelve tribes is about trying to brainwash others to do their bidding also refer to as a cult.

Finally, I know you can never understand this but true friends don’t give up on one another. I doubt the two of us will ever speak again, so be it but before another person in a low point of their life stays in your community, I think it is only fair they know what the twelve tribes really stand for.

Wolf

Well, the beehive analogy is pretty good. Bees sound and look great until you are on the wrong side of them.....

Yes yes, I agree that to each their own if they want to live in the TT but disclosure as to their real structure and their real life sure would be good...one need only spend enough time there to learn there is more to the story than they tell you and one need only talk to a few of the ex-members to realize there is a A LOT that goes on that will not be seen until you are there a while.
And yes, I think we all agree the individuals in the community, overall, are very kind people. It is sad to see them so mentally and emotionally enslaved.

Remember the old adage about "if it looks too good to be true...."

So far it sounds like myself and Wolf are the only ones with any real practical experience with the group beyond just being a happy-go-lucky thru-hiker passing through and interestingly enough...we are the only ones putting forth a word of caution in this and the other thread about the TT.

I stayed there last month when I was passing through Vermont. I was the only hiker staying in the women's area that night. The room is lovely and the women's bathroom is the nicest one in any hostel I've been in. It's conveniently located near a big Wal-Mart, so it's easy to get town chores done.

Because of the way men and women are segregated, staying there was a lot less fun than other hostels--I had no one to talk to. Some of the commune members were extremely nice to me; some were fairly cold. A rather awkward situation arose when one member invited me to dinner in the restaurant (it was closed that day) and another one greeted me at the door and said, "We are not in the habit of feeding hikers."

The scary literature sprinkled liberally throughout the place should tip anyone off that their beliefs are not as benign as their smiles might lull you into thinking.

The young man who talked with me at the pavilion at last year's Gathering was polite, friendly, and insistant he tried to win me over with a few Bible verses which we agreed on, but, when I told him that I believed that God has me in a church where he wants me, he kept suggesting that they had something better. I don't have the time, nor the inclination to move away from my church to try something different. His demeanor reminded me of the "Moonies" from the 1970's who lived down the street from me when I was in college - far away, disconnected look in his eyes and a constant smile.

I was in a cult for a number of years, and they used the Bible very effectively to control us by guaranteeing that God was interested in making life wonderful for us, praying on our selfish lusts. The Bible talks of the trials that are guaranteed to be part of the life of a follower of Christ. I'm reading the WHOLE Bible now, and finding this theme throughout.
From what I've heard of this group, the word of the leader takes precedent over the Bible. Call it whatever you will. Be cautious.

From what I've heard of this group, the word of the leader takes precedent over the Bible. Call it whatever you will. Be cautious.

You wouldn't be bad-mouthing the Catholics and their Pope, now would you???

Joking aside, I've yet to run into a religious sect (and that does includes Catholics, etc) who don't think THEIR guy has the direct dial to God.

It's just easy to pick on the newer sects and call them "cults." IMHO.

Rain:sunMan

.

why make fun of, or denigrate any religion or "cult"? if one doesn't believe what another group does, who cares?

if one cares enough to make fun or try to bring down another's beliefs, i would suspect it's because their belief structure is seriously lacking.:-?

why make fun of, or denigrate any religion or "cult"? if one doesn't believe what another group does, who cares?

if one cares enough to make fun or try to bring down another's beliefs, i would suspect it's because their belief structure is seriously lacking.:-?

I just don't like to see the many manipulated and exploited for the gain of a few - religious or otherwise.

Greed is evil, the upper level of selfishness.

I have been the prey of others. I'd rather pray for others.

I do follow a man, but He is the perfect MAN, the son of the invisible God.

If you like nature now, wait until you see what it's like when it gets fixed.:banana

easy feelin said he had a great stay there:cool: neo


Gray Spainhour (Easy Feelin')'s 2006
Appalachian Trail Journal


First (http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=132478) Previous (http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=160098) Next Last Friday, October 06, 2006
Destination: Sherburne Pass/Rutland, VT
Starting Location: Lookout Cabin
Today's Miles: 17.00
Trip Miles: 431.40 Today was just a cool day.
But not this morning. No, this morning was {{cold}} and frosty. The gloves and toboggan were priceless.
But I got moving and it warmed up a bit. It's hard to get moving when it's cold--but once I do get going, the cool is much more pleasurable in comparison with the heat.
When I got to the trailhead, I needed to hitch into Rutland for resupply, and to pick up a package at the post office. I stuck my thumb out, and about 5 minutes later Patrick pulled his pickup over to the side. I threw all my stuff in the back and asked if he minded if a dirty and smelly hiker sat in the front. (Thanks Patrick!)
So I finally found the hiker hostel that accepts donations only. It's right in the middle of town and its ran by a Christian comunity called the Twelve Tribes. I went with Storytelller and 46er to their evening worship service and supper afterwards. I will write more on this later, but I will say that they are an extremely nice group of Christians who keep the Sabbath (from Friday's dusk to Sunday's dawn). I am so intrigued by these people and have so much to say that I'm having a hard time stopping right now.
But I have to because it's late and I'm tired. Hasta Manana,
~~Easy Feelin'
--The Woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep, and miles to go before I sleep.-- Robert Frost http://trailjournals.com/images/button_rate.gif (http://trailjournals.com/ratepost.cfm?Entry=160099&trailnameid=4451)

Israel, I wish you could see how insulting and nonsensical your words look to someone like me, who absolutely LOVES the simple life of love and unity we have here in our communities of the Twelve Tribes. You say,

"And yes, I think we all agree the individuals in the community, overall, are very kind people. It is sad to see them so mentally and emotionally enslaved."

I am 52 years old, and I CHOOSE to be here every day. I am NOT "mentally and emotionally enslaved". I am THRILLED to have a life with such wonderful and "very kind" people as I now live with...and to have a context to wake up in the morning and forget about myself and live for the God I cannot see, by living for my friends that I can see.

Jesus said, "love each other as I have loved you"....we live for each other...and I spent my whole life looking for a life like this...

Wild horses could not drag me away from this life. And that is true of all of us who are here with our whole hearts. If anyone doesn't want to be here, they should LEAVE!....we don't even WANT people to be sharing our life who imagine they have something better to do...like live for themselves.

Does it ever occur to you that such "very kind" people may be "very kind" because they are actually CHOOSING to deny themselves to live the kind of life of love that human beings were actually created to live? It is possible?

It is not only possible, but true. Anyone who stays at the hostel and gets to know the people there, will know for sure that these are NOT "mentally and emotionally enslaved" people. They are actually the only people I have ever found in a lifetime of searching that are truly set free to love each other, and have true JOY as a result of that. You grossly insult and misrepresent what our life is.

Anyone with real experience in working with human beings, knows you CANNOT abuse people, "mentally and emotionally enslave" people, and have the result of it be that you end up with a bunch of people who are "very kind" and loving.

What is planted, is what grows. Abused people become abusive people...they don't become "very kind", much less full of love, peace and joy...and that is the kind of people I live with...people who have love, peace and joy. Be real, why don't you? "These people are abused!...and we all say also that "they are very kind". "

This is not reality.

I also find your comment below ignores the fact that there are THOUSANDS of us living in our communities around the world; and we ALL have more experience with our life than you do; and we are THRILLED to be living this life of love with our friends.

Ignoring that testimony, and taking as "gospel" the testimony of those who leave us, would be like evaluating the worth of Yale as a college by only weighing the experience of those who flunked out.

It is not an easy thing to give up your life to live entirely for others. Some try it and then change their minds and leave us. Why would anyone be surprised at that? And why would they imagine that the experience of those who leave us is the measure of the experience of those of us who stay and love our life? People who can't stay married tend to think that married life is hell...and maybe it was, for THEM...but that does not mean that it is that way for everyone. It isn't.

I am "married" to this life of love and unity...and I would rather die than live any other way, as long as this life exists here to be lived. And I know hundreds of people in our communities feel just like I do.

Israel, you go on....

"So far it sounds like myself and Wolf are the only ones with any real practical experience with the group beyond just being a happy-go-lucky thru-hiker passing through and interestingly enough...we are the only ones putting forth a word of caution in this and the other thread about the TT."

I have more practical experience with the "group" that either of you....and I say, go ahead and be cautious....but if you just relax and be real, you will find not a dangerous group, but some of the most real, down to earth and friendly and loving people on the whole planet...and you may also find a whole new way of life...if you happen to be looking for one.

If you are not looking for one, you will just find a very, very nice hostel...and have a great time with good people, and go your way.

That's great. We live from our hearts, and are happy to see others do the same.

And I am very glad to finally see this thread come down to earth....brought back into reality by the real experiences of real, normal people who have actually stayed there with my real, normal friends. It shows how bizarre all the fearmongering on this thread truly is. SOMEBODY is dangerous and unbalanced here, for sure...but it isn't my friends at the Rutland Hostel.

Sincerely,
David

Wolf, thanks for telling us the source of your bitterness.

Essentially, your friend fell in love with the One we fell in love with...and with the life we share with one another...and left you behind.

That's a hard thing to swallow, for sure. But why don't you just accept it for what it is? She found a life with us that she loves more than the life she had with you.

If she had found such a life she loved more, with another man rather than with a group of people...would you be on such a crusade against him?

I don't know who this woman is, who used to be with you, and is now here with us....but she is here because she has chosen to be here. And to be in our life is a very good thing...for me, it has been like coming into light after living in the darkness. I am happy for your friend.

It would be nice if you could see the value in the choice she has made; and that is what it comes down to, Wolf...she made a choice, and continues to make that choice daily to be with us. You should respect that, if you truly respect her.

Sincerely,
David

I also had a pleasant overnight there last year on my thru hike. I did work for stay and was out of there in the morning. It was nice to stay in a clean hostel with a very clean bathroom. I ate in their cafe in the evening and had great food. I have also eaten in their cafe in Lancaster NH. I had an interesting talk with the couple that was running the hostel. Myself and a few other hikers asked them questions, just curious but I was not going to join or stay. They did not preach or seemingly try to influence us. Mostly
just friendly and answered questions.

Sleeveless '05

Wolf, thanks for telling us the source of your bitterness.

Essentially, your friend fell in love with the One we fell in love with...and with the life we share with one another...and left you behind.

That's a hard thing to swallow, for sure. But why don't you just accept it for what it is? She found a life with us that she loves more than the life she had with you.

If she had found such a life she loved more, with another man rather than with a group of people...would you be on such a crusade against him?

I don't know who this woman is, who used to be with you, and is now here with us....but she is here because she has chosen to be here. And to be in our life is a very good thing...for me, it has been like coming into light after living in the darkness. I am happy for your friend.

It would be nice if you could see the value in the choice she has made; and that is what it comes down to, Wolf...she made a choice, and continues to make that choice daily to be with us. You should respect that, if you truly respect her.

Sincerely,
David
:) i am planning on visiting the community in chattanooga,i remember the yellow daisy resturant here in nsahville back in the 70,s,i think what you people are doing is wonderful,i really enjoyed my stay in rutland a few weeks ago,thanks again:cool: neo

Wolf, thanks for telling us the source of your bitterness.

Essentially, your friend fell in love with the One we fell in love with...and with the life we share with one another...and left you behind.

That's a hard thing to swallow, for sure. But why don't you just accept it for what it is? She found a life with us that she loves more than the life she had with you.

If she had found such a life she loved more, with another man rather than with a group of people...would you be on such a crusade against him?

I don't know who this woman is, who used to be with you, and is now here with us....but she is here because she has chosen to be here. And to be in our life is a very good thing...for me, it has been like coming into light after living in the darkness. I am happy for your friend.

It would be nice if you could see the value in the choice she has made; and that is what it comes down to, Wolf...she made a choice, and continues to make that choice daily to be with us. You should respect that, if you truly respect her.

Sincerely,
David

David,

You are right; it is a hard thing to swallow. It's tough when Groups of so call “God Loving People” such as the 12 Tribes whom preach so much about love and happiness, would tell one of it own members who she should associate with.

To answer your question “If she had found such a life she loved more, with another man rather than with a group of people...would you be on such a crusade against him?” I’m not sure I’m following you. Most of my female friends that have gotten married, I still keep in touch, some of my friends even had children. Sometimes we’ll get together and go out for dinner or talk on the phone, etc. Their husbands know me and are fine with it. It’s something called trust. Their husbands trust their wife and me not to violate their marriage vows. It a beautiful thing!

Just a thought, but maybe the 12-Trible should learn to Trust their women partner instead of treat them like a child. Just a thought.

Wolf

Essentially, your friend fell in love with the One...

Aha! Now I understand why Neo likes this group. They worship Him. ;)

Did that other thread breed with the Devil and spawn this one?

If anyone has any real questions about the hostel in Rutland and the people that run it, please send me a pm or an email. I just don't want this stuff to fly at us defenselessly. I will be happy to talk to anyone about the twelve tribes with complete honesty. I have been here over ten years now.... I have no misconceptions about it, and I certainly have nothing to gain by misrepresenting what we're all about. The last thing I want living in my community's house is someone who is in the dark about what we're really like and what we really live for. I'm glad Israel isn't here with us, because if he hates our thing that much, I would never want him in my house. I'd much rather him be happy doing what he's doing. The same goes for those others who slam us all the time. Just ask if you have any questions or concerns.
James

Just a thought, but maybe the 12-Trible should learn to Trust their women partner instead of treat them like a child. Just a thought.

Would that good thought apply both ways?

Rain:sunMan
.

Would that good thought apply both ways?

Rain:sunMan
.

RainMan,

Of Course it applies both ways. To me, any type of relationship weather it is a friendship, marriage, boy/girlfriend should always be base on trusting one another. If someone needs to tell their partner who they can associate with, what their place is (or as the twelve tribes put it; “their roles”), it no longer a partnership; it becomes a dictatorship instead. It is one of the reasons why I will speak out against the twelve tribes.

A woman purpose in life is not to do what the tribe demeans as, “woman chores”, cleaning, cooking, doing the laundry, etc. Men and women are equal. It something the twelve tribes can not understand, which is why all their leadership is male. I think it important for hikers or anyone else who stays with them to know what they are supporting.




James, you can B.S. someone into thinking the twelve tribes is about love and happiness in your pm messages, but I think it just shows how much your afraid hikers are going to learn the truth about the place. Both myself and Israel have experience what the twelve tribes stood for behinds the lies, and we’ll call B.S. when we see it.

Wolf

the rutland community is awesome,i think the people there are wonderful
:cool: neo

If anyone has any real questions about the hostel in Rutland and the people that run it, please send me a pm or an email. I just don't want this stuff to fly at us defenselessly. I will be happy to talk to anyone about the twelve tribes with complete honesty.

Then, why not just answer the questions with complete honesty here rather than in a P.M. or email?

Just wondering...

:-? :confused:

Then, why not just answer the questions with complete honesty here rather than in a P.M. or email?

Just wondering...



I'm happy to do that, too, Austexs. I have nothing to hide and I don't think any of the rest of us do either.
James

David,

You are right; it is a hard thing to swallow. It's tough when Groups of so call “God Loving People” such as the 12 Tribes whom preach so much about love and happiness, would tell one of it own members who she should associate with.

To answer your question “If she had found such a life she loved more, with another man rather than with a group of people...would you be on such a crusade against him?” I’m not sure I’m following you. Most of my female friends that have gotten married, I still keep in touch, some of my friends even had children. Sometimes we’ll get together and go out for dinner or talk on the phone, etc. Their husbands know me and are fine with it. It’s something called trust. Their husbands trust their wife and me not to violate their marriage vows. It a beautiful thing!

Just a thought, but maybe the 12-Trible should learn to Trust their women partner instead of treat them like a child. Just a thought.

Wolf


maybe you should get another girl friend a get over it,12 years of going around with hostile feelings is no good,i think your lady friend is in a great place in heart and soul,she would not be there unless she wanted to be
i myself want to get to know these wonderful people.i dont believe they are a harmful cult,they sound pretty biblical to me,i think they are heading in the right direction,the straight and narrow path and few find it:cool: neo

maybe you should get another girl friend a get over it,12 years of going around with hostile feelings is no good,i think your lady friend is in a great place in heart and soul,she would not be there unless she wanted to be
i myself want to get to know these wonderful people.i dont believe they are a harmful cult,they sound pretty biblical to me,i think they are heading in the right direction,the straight and narrow path and few find it:cool: neo

I'm happy to do that, too, Austexs. I have nothing to hide and I don't think any of the rest of us do either.
James

OK.

Neo said:
"i myself want to get to know these wonderful people.i dont believe they are a harmful cult,they sound pretty biblical to me,i think they are heading in the right direction,the straight and narrow path and few find it:cool: neo"

--

Neo has has expressed his interest in joining your community.
Would there ever be a circumstance in which him and his wife or loved ones would be mandatarily seperated from each other?

OK.

Neo said:
"i myself want to get to know these wonderful people.i dont believe they are a harmful cult,they sound pretty biblical to me,i think they are heading in the right direction,the straight and narrow path and few find it:cool: neo"

--

Neo has has expressed his interest in joining your community.
Would there ever be a circumstance in which him and his wife or loved ones would be mandatarily seperated from each other?

i did not say i want to join anything,i just want to visit someday:cool: neo

i did not say i want to join anything,i just want to visit someday:cool: neo

OK. Sorry 'bout that Neo.:cool:

We'll just change it to "Austexs" has expressed an interest in joining the community.... etc...

;)

maybe you should get another girl friend a get over it,12 years of going around with hostile feelings is no good,i think your lady friend is in a great place in heart and soul,she would not be there unless she wanted to be
i myself want to get to know these wonderful people.i dont believe they are a harmful cult,they sound pretty biblical to me,i think they are heading in the right direction,the straight and narrow path and few find it:cool: neo

Neo,

Would you feel the same when they tell you who you should associate with and who not too? Look around you, do your friends mean that little to you? What about becoming a member? Are you prepared to give up all your positions to give to their cause? If you believe in them that strong they are good people, why not? Have you ever heard the saying, “Don’t judge a book by it is cover”? This is why?

People who get suck into cults like the 12-tribes are not dumb, gullible people. They are sucked in by people that appear like general kind people. Once their in, is when they can do their brainwashing. I’ve visit the 12-tribes several time. I never said they were unfriendly while I was there.

To set the record straight, my friend was never my girl friend. We never dated, or did anything as a “couple”. We were just real good friends. Second, I knew my friend for 8 years prior to her joining the 12-tribes, 4 years as a member. I visit her several times. She hit a low point in her life before becoming a member.

Wolf

Neo,

Would you feel the same when they tell you who you should associate with and who not too? Look around you, do your friends mean that little to you? What about becoming a member? Are you prepared to give up all your positions to give to their cause? If you believe in them that strong they are good people, why not? Have you ever heard the saying, “Don’t judge a book by it is cover”? This is why?

People who get suck into cults like the 12-tribes are not dumb, gullible people. They are sucked in by people that appear like general kind people. Once their in, is when they can do their brainwashing. I’ve visit the 12-tribes several time. I never said they were unfriendly while I was there.

To set the record straight, my friend was never my girl friend. We never dated, or did anything as a “couple”. We were just real good friends. Second, I knew my friend for 8 years prior to her joining the 12-tribes, 4 years as a member. I visit her several times. She hit a low point in her life before becoming a member.

Wolf



how is she doing now,is she happy,are you still friends:cool: neo

how is she doing now,is she happy,are you still friends:cool: neo

Don't know. She was told to cut all tied with me two years ago. I haven't talked or seen her since. Out of respect, on her last call to me, she told me why. The 12-tribes doesn’t believe a man and a woman should be as close of friends as us unless their married. To clarified, when I use the word friends; it means just that, not things a couple would do.

The 12-tribe believes is a man has his roll and a woman has her under him. A woman option is not valued the same as a man.


Wolf

the hostel in rutland is the best in vermont,12 tribes community are some of the nicest people i have met on my section hike:cool: neo

the hostel in rutland is the best in vermont,12 tribes community are some of the nicest people i have met on my section hike:cool: neo

:) the best hostel in vermont:cool: neo

Yes, hospitable, with really good natural beverages and food. It would, however, be great if a hiker or two could organize such a place without the commune philosophy of voluntary poverty, which requires prospective members to sell all wealth and possessions and distribute to the TT or the poor. These and other communal groups have received substantial wealth from entering members, leaving them with little should a change in attitude, family or other needs arise later--The Bruderhoff, for example.

I learned to share in preschool. I just do it in the community I live in because I want to. No one forces me to share with my friends. Love is what forces me to. No one should ever consider trying to do what we do because they think they have to. It is only a matter of doing what we have the desire in our hearts to do. Love is the motivating force, not good principles.

There was a twelve tribes thruhiker in '01. Very nice kid. Huge appetite. Taught him to swing a bat. He had never swung a baseball bat before, i was amazed. When I told him over a cup of coffee that he was in a cult, he didn't seem to mind. He was one serene cat. I believe the term "drank the Kool-aid" applied to him. Along with "bad-ass hiker" and "non-stop buffet destroying monster".

I agree with Rainman. A cult is a cult is a cult.

Yahtzee---

Not to open a can of worms or anything, cuz to be frank, I'm not entirely sure what I think about the 12 Tribes....but around 2000 years ago, the power that-be in Roman-occupied Palestine viewed early Christianity as a dangerous cult, and something to be avoided, feared, and suppressed.

Something to think about maybe. :-?

I think the person Yahtzee was referring to was probably not from our communities. Maybe some other group of people.

As far as the thing Jack said, it is definitely something to consider. I suggest reading the words of a man named Gamaliel in the Bible. Acts 5:34-39

Yahtzee---

Not to open a can of worms or anything, cuz to be frank, I'm not entirely sure what I think about the 12 Tribes....but around 2000 years ago, the power that-be in Roman-occupied Palestine viewed early Christianity as a dangerous cult, and something to be avoided, feared, and suppressed.

Something to think about maybe. :-?

If you had a half million bucks of assets... and were asked to "donate it all" would you still be not so sure?

:-?

Times change and JC aint living at 12 tribes as far as I know...

Austexs--

Lifting a chosen serene, ascetic lifestyle goes back thousands of years in Christian traditon.

In later years thousands of people in the Franciscan and Dominican monastic orders adopted this lifestyle. And they did a great deal of good in the process.

Choosing to live like this is ultimately a voluntary decision.

Would I choose to live like this....or donate all my worldly assets to a religious group?

Well, not this week, but just because I wouldn't doesn't mean I'm qualified to judge anyone who feels differently.

Jack and others,

This is far from a Christian group. A Christian group believes in serving GOD, the twelve tribes believes in serving their tribe. If you are not a member of the tribe, they believe your going to HELL.

The only reason why they have the hostel is to recruit new members. Even if a handful of thru-hikers join their cause, give up everything to the tribe … all their positions, their real friends, maybe even their family and agreed to work for free for the tribe’s cause. It more then pays for itself in their eyes. I suggest all stay as far away from the place as possible.

Wolf

cults and organized churches suck.

I think organized religion is awful, too, just like you said. I love the twelve tribes, though. Been here over a decade. It's not like you think. Really... We gain a lot more debt through new members joining us than we gain assets. We do it to help people.

If the new members are working, and help support themselves and the community they've just joined, then how does this add debt? :-?

I'm not being argumentative, James, I'm just curious.

And what is "organized" religion by the way?

Isn't your community "organized" in various ways, i.e doesn't it have leaders, traditions, rituals, writings, commandments, codes of conduct, regulations?

Please tell us what you mean by "organized".

I think organized religion is awful, too, just like you said. I love the twelve tribes, though. Been here over a decade. It's not like you think. Really... We gain a lot more debt through new members joining us than we gain assets. We do it to help people.

James,

I’m sure you do love the twelve tribes, but it also the only life you real know. All your friends, family, etc are also members I’m sure. The twelve tribes has some very good true people but it also have a very dark side too that destroys any beauty it could every offer... I know, I spent several days with the twelve tribes in NY.

New members have to give up a lot more then what you think. Image the tribe telling you to break you are tied with any one of your friends, family, people that care about you, give up all your positions - Even a faithful dog. Could you do it? Don’t say it would never happen, but it has been done before and will happen again.

To answer Jack question, “If the new members are working, and help support themselves and the community they've just joined, then how does this add debt?” Some members do join with significant amount of debt (over spent credit cards, bad credit, etc.) The tribe absorbs this debt too as it was explain to me. But even a new member with $10,000 worth of bad debt, is going to more then make up the different after the turn over all their assets and working for free. In a matter of months the tribe has more than made up the different if you look at how much it would cost them if they had to pay someone for working. Labor is cheap when you don’t have to pay someone.

Wolf

"I think the person Yahtzee was referring to was probably not from our communities. Maybe some other group of people." Nope. This kid was in the twelve tribes. You don't forget a religion named twelve tribes.


Jack, I think all "ways" are cults. And since this is just another bible-based cult like the ones I have already dismissed, it made dismissing this as a cult that much easier.

Would I stay there? Sure, why not. But I'd mostly likely be camped across the street from the Inn at the Long Trail or sleeping in a room there.

Somehow I destinctly remember this exact thread being hashed out here on white blaze months back..maybe a year back. Why do we have to to it all over again?

I sorta remembered they showed up at the last gathering in Hanover. Seemed really nice.. this one lady Patience sticks in my mind.

Anyway.. with all the talk of them being cultish I think there is reason to pause and think.

personally I love the Inn at the Long Trail.. there food can't be beat and its pleasant ant comfy. It is money yes..but ok..I am willing to shell it out at that point!! btw.. one of finest hot chocolates on the AT!

David

This is great. I love these types of questions. Yes, it does add debt when people move in with debt. They had debt and now we all have it shared between us. Yes, they sometimes to turn into working members that help bring the community income, but that income is also used to pay the bills for the food they eat and the utilities they consume, etc. If you have ever spent time with us, you might have noticed we are barely scraping by in most of our locations. Is this because we send a bunch of money to some fund the leader or leaders only have access to? No, we actually don't. We are usually in this state because we pull lots of the people out of money-making positions and have them teach children in our home-school-type classrooms and have them do a bunch of other non-income-earning stuff like subsistence farming and remodeling our older houses, etc. I'm saying this as the one in charge of the money, too, not just as someone in the dark about it.
And as far as the thing about me not knowing any other life. You got me all wrong. I have no family here except the woman I married here and the boy we are raising. I didn't grow up here. I went to college and opted out of the career world I was heading for to live by the desires in my heart to love others and have the special togetherness we share. You should see it. We have a much better life than you are thinking. We have a farm here in Asheville, North Carolina where I live now that is developing very well. Animals, a large garden. We even make bio-diesel for our own use. Come check it out. www.gladheartfarms.com - We don't bite... As for those that dismiss what we're doing as a cult. Well, that's fine. We're not looking to prove anything to anyone. We make no apology about loving God. If you have reasons you think we're something scary, well, no one's forcing you to visit or join us. Please keep your comments at least somewhat dignified and appropriate, though. It starts to get a bit depressing when people are full of bitterness and anger over something they really know nothing about. We are human beings, after all, not cult-machines that don't have feelings and hearts.

I look forward to any other questions you may have... keep them coming.
James

This hostel, the quality of hospitality and example of fellowship sets a good example for hikers. There is some Scripture about provoking others to do good or godliness--my hope is that there be openness by both hikers and the Twelve Tribes so that both benefit. I would gladly work at one of their farms, etc. to help out learn sociability and acceptance, etc. if there were no expectations that by doing so I were joining. Rutland is not known as the most virtuous city. Perhaps they are setting a really good example to their neighbors and others will imitate their good behaviour

It would be good to debate Bible teachings with their own. I was challenged by them on Luke 14--"no man can be my disciple unless he forsakes all that he has", unless you hate father and mother you cannot, etc. If you read the chapter you will see it is not a mandate, but rather a challenge to put Christ first. What about Titus and 1Timothy? It says an overseer must rule his own house well in order to be entrusted with church rule...How, pray tell, is this possible if he has no possessions or freedom of autonomy? Virtue untested is not virtue. How can others be provoked to do good if there is the belief that you must join up because their example cannot be immitated. The Pope said as much the other day that their is no other way than the RC church...

Speaking of useful quotes from the Good Book, it wouldn't hurt to have a look at Matthew 7:15, either. :rolleyes:

Wolf, thanks for telling us the source of your bitterness.

Essentially, your friend fell in love with the One we fell in love with...and with the life we share with one another...and left you behind.

That's a hard thing to swallow, for sure. But why don't you just accept it for what it is? She found a life with us that she loves more than the life she had with you.

If she had found such a life she loved more, with another man rather than with a group of people...would you be on such a crusade against him?

I don't know who this woman is, who used to be with you, and is now here with us....but she is here because she has chosen to be here. And to be in our life is a very good thing...for me, it has been like coming into light after living in the darkness. I am happy for your friend.

It would be nice if you could see the value in the choice she has made; and that is what it comes down to, Wolf...she made a choice, and continues to make that choice daily to be with us. You should respect that, if you truly respect her.

Sincerely,
David

There is no respect for groups who alienate people from their friends and/or family. I don't care what whoever's god told them.

Good word, Jack. My thoughts exactly. I think we're more tested in these things greenmtnboy mentions than anyone. The only difference is that in the community setting, one can actually do the things taught in the gospels. It's nice to be able to do them. Also, the letters were written to communities, not churches as we know them.
James

Well, I appreciate your thoughts, Dr. O, but you might want to find out a little more info before you cast us off as a result of hearing one side of a story.
James

Well, I appreciate your thoughts, Dr. O, but you might want to find out a little more info before you cast us off as a result of hearing one side of a story.
James

The sides of the story are irrelevant to the fact that there is no respect for people who cut people off from friends and family. There's no ambiguity here that would benefit from knowing your side. It's bad fruit. Knowing why it was picked doesn't change the fact it shouldn't have been.

:-? Yahtzee---

Not to open a can of worms or anything, cuz to be frank, I'm not entirely sure what I think about the 12 Tribes....but around 2000 years ago, the power that-be in Roman-occupied Palestine viewed early Christianity as a dangerous cult, and something to be avoided, feared, and suppressed.

Something to think about maybe. :-?

Yes, that is something to think about. I put both groups in the same basket.

And I feel the same way about both groups. I do not want to join either one.

That said, I love LIFE. My best friend from this board considers himself a hardcore follower of Jesus. What any individual or group wants to do should be up to them, so long as it does not infringe on my own rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. (I know I am a closet libertarian.....ooops, I mean registered)

peace
MF

Well, speaking for myself, I DON'T put both of these groups in the same basket.

There's no shortage of information out there on the 12 Tribes. It's freely available to anyone who is interested. I suggest people try and keep an open mind, that they get better informed, and that they then make up their own minds about this.

And to James.......when I suggested people have a look at Matthew 7:15 to see what I really think of this situation, I'm afraid you entirely missed my point.

It's called "irony." Sorry you missed it.

Well, speaking for myself, I DON'T put both of these groups in the same basket.

There's no shortage of information out there on the 12 Tribes. It's freely available to anyone who is interested. I suggest people try and keep an open mind, that they get better informed, and that they then make up their own minds about this.

And to James.......when I suggested people have a look at Matthew 7:15 to see what I really think of this situation, I'm afraid you entirely missed my point.

It's called "irony." Sorry you missed it.
Heh, heh...I caught it Jack. Wonder if LW did?:D

Heh, heh...I caught it Jack. Wonder if LW did?:D

These sure ain't funny www.twelvetribes-ex.org/ (http://www.twelvetribes-ex.org/)

These sure ain't funny www.twelvetribes-ex.org/ (http://www.twelvetribes-ex.org/)

meant to say dirtybirds. cultists.

James,

Before I respond to your post, I would like to ask you or any tribe member why when someone speaks out against something the tribe or a tribe member has done, the responds is always the same or similar, “You must be mistaken”. Yahtzee, spoke of one of your members, “I think the person Yahtzee was referring to was probably not from our communities. Maybe some other group of people.” Don’t you think that when people are speaking out, some of what they say might be true?

When I stated all your friends, family, etc are also members, I wasn’t wrong - your wife and son the only family you have are members. - “I have no family here except the woman I married here and the boy we are raising.” I’m not saying that to attack you or your family, but only to point out when we don’t expand our circle we as human become complacency – we accept things that normal we would not as a way of life.

“Yes, it does add debt when people move in with debt. They had debt and now we all have it shared between us. Yes, they sometimes to turn into working members that help bring the community income, but that income is also used to pay the bills for the food they eat and the utilities they consume, etc. If you have ever spent time with us, you might have noticed we are barely scraping by in most of our locations.”

I have spent time at the Twelve-Tribe and I believe I said the same thing. Different words but same meaning.

As for used to pay bills for food, utilities, etc., I think we should bring that down to prospective. Members have no major electric appliances (TV, radio, Dish-washer, etc - things found in a normal house hold.) The only electric utilities I saw were the lights in the house and a sink in the kitchen and bathroom and a computer in a barn used for business (Cambridge, NY). The housing is a bunk house style, several people per/room, little room for personal items/clothes. That their life style which is neither good nor bad. It’s just different. But don’t try to make it out to being a huge expense.

Is this because we send a bunch of money to some fund the leader or leaders only have access to? No, we actually don't. We are usually in this state because we pull lots of the people out of money-making positions and have them teach children in our home-school-type classrooms and have them do a bunch of other non-income-earning stuff like subsistence farming and remodeling our older houses, etc. I'm saying this as the one in charge of the money, too, not just as someone in the dark about it.

Please don’t try to make it to be some noble cause your doing. The teachers that I have seen both in NY and during the Washington, DC gathering have always been the women. “It is their role”, as it was explain to me. Women in the tribe are not trusted with the finances nor would they ever be place in a money making position.

Sundance, Estée Lauder, LL Bean one of the most well known company on this site refuse to carry Twelve Tribes products because of all things their child labor laws.


Sect Children are Used to Abuse - http://www.rickross.com/reference/tribes/tribes19.html
State Probes Cult in Child-Labor Scandal -http://www.rickross.com/reference/tribes/tribes17.html


Companies such as Estee Lauder and LL Bean, which are not particularly progressive, figured this out long ago and stopped carrying Twelve Tribes products. There is no context in which such hate speech is acceptable. And it shouldn’t take consultation with a “spiritual” or “moral leader” to figure this out.

Is the Twelve Tribes a Cult?
- http://www.goodmanson.com/2005-11/02/is-the-twelve-tribes-a-cult/ (bottom)

Should I go on?

Wolf

being a lone wolf is best. a community of 1

Well, all I know is that I used to be a community of one, and I'm a lot happier now that I'm not. You can say all these things about us, but it only makes me more convinced and more grateful that I love what I'm doing and don't have any regret. It's too bad people act like this. They treated their Messiah the same way...

Well, all I know is that I used to be a community of one, and I'm a lot happier now that I'm not. You can say all these things about us, but it only makes me more convinced and more grateful that I love what I'm doing and don't have any regret. It's too bad people act like this. They treated their Messiah the same way...

Sounds like you got a good thing going.

So why is it so important to you what Wolf23000, L.Wolf, myself, or anybody else on White Blaze thinks of you or your group?

Well, all I know is that I used to be a community of one, and I'm a lot happier now that I'm not. You can say all these things about us, but it only makes me more convinced and more grateful that I love what I'm doing and don't have any regret. It's too bad people act like this. They treated their Messiah the same way...

You rationalise the illegal exploitation of children by explaining the womb this group provides you is comfortable to you?

What's a reasonable, unbiased person supposed to think of that?

James Case, I must say that you seem very calm and self-assured compared to some of your detractors.

It also appears that neither side has convinced the other of anything. Perhaps if you invited them to stay in your community for a few weeks (working or paying, of course), they might see it for themselves and be able to form an opinion based on their own experiences.

You are definitely all invited to come and spend some time getting to know what it's really like. All the accusations will most likely be dispelled if you do. They definitely did for me.
thanks, appalachain tater,
James

Well, all I know is that I used to be a community of one, and I'm a lot happier now that I'm not. You can say all these things about us, but it only makes me more convinced and more grateful that I love what I'm doing and don't have any regret. It's too bad people act like this. They treated their Messiah the same way...

Come on James, As one of the leaders, I’m sure you were aware of this, the news reports, the state and federal investigations, the fines the community had to pay, the child abuse, etc, the separating members from the friends or family, but because they are not part of the tribe?

You say you love children. Below is a link of a 2005 court case that the twelve tribe fought up to VT High Court. One of you own members, Stanzione was ordered in 1991 to pay $50 per week in child support when she and her husband divorced and he left the religious community to return to Vermont along with three of the couple's five children, according to court papers. Anyone who has kids knows $50 a week to support kids is not a lot of money. Rather than tribe paying the child support like they were order to, the tribe fought it in court before finally told by the VT High Court to pay up.

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050905/NEWS/509050320/1003&template=printart (http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050905/NEWS/509050320/1003&template=printart)


You can hide in your farm and pretend this stuff doesn’t happen, but this stuff is for real! This is not stuff that just made up. These are facts. It scares me that places like the twelve tribe are out there. You can talk about your love in God all you want but what kind of God loving man would be any part of a community that has been found guilty of abusing children or do what ever it took to avoid taking care of three of their tribe members children?

Actions speak louder than words. This is what your tribe stands for.

Wolf

James Case, I must say that you seem very calm and self-assured compared to some of your detractors.

It also appears that neither side has convinced the other of anything. Perhaps if you invited them to stay in your community for a few weeks (working or paying, of course), they might see it for themselves and be able to form an opinion based on their own experiences.

Appalachian Tater,

I have spent time with the tribe, visit them in VT or Washington DC, on several occasions even spent spend the night before. How do you think I know all this stuff? Not everything is as it seems.

Wolf

Appalachian Tater,

I have spent time with the tribe, visit them in VT or WashingtonDC, on several occasions even spent spend the night before. How do you think I know all this stuff? Not everything is as it seems.

Wolf

That is why I said "some of your detractors" instead of "all of your detractors" or "your detractors".

Obviously you aren't going to change your opinion, nor is James Case, so there is little use in arguing with each other.

All these news posts and weblinks are just missing one thing: the truth. If you believe everything you read on the web, please don't visit our communities. You wouldn't fit in. No children have ever been abused in any of the twelve tribes communities I've lived in. The one person I have lived with who committed such acts was kicked out long ago and is now in jail. And my friend Ms. Stanzione was definitely justified taking her case the high court. If you're going to accuse someone. Please accuse someone who's done something wrong. She hasn't.
I just want you all to know that there's plenty of negative things said about all the best things on Earth. I know better than to believe everything in the press and so should you. The only way to know what we're all like is to see it yourself. Those who already have and still don't like us are free to stay away. We aren't looking to convince anyone to join our ranks unless they want to. I don't plan on posting anything else on here about this topic because I really don't see the point. If you have questions, feel free to ask, but as for this back and forth stuff, I'm all done.

James

All these news posts and weblinks are just missing one thing: the truth. If you believe everything you read on the web, please don't visit our communities. You wouldn't fit in. No children have ever been abused in any of the twelve tribes communities I've lived in. The one person I have lived with who committed such acts was kicked out long ago and is now in jail. And my friend Ms. Stanzione was definitely justified taking her case the high court. If you're going to accuse someone. Please accuse someone who's done something wrong. She hasn't.
I just want you all to know that there's plenty of negative things said about all the best things on Earth. I know better than to believe everything in the press and so should you. The only way to know what we're all like is to see it yourself. Those who already have and still don't like us are free to stay away. We aren't looking to convince anyone to join our ranks unless they want to. I don't plan on posting anything else on here about this topic because I really don't see the point. If you have questions, feel free to ask, but as for this back and forth stuff, I'm all done.

James

The repeating mantra here. "come to us". Yeah right.

Why are you leaving now? Kitchen getting too hot? You can live by the strict code of the old bible or be left behind as not worthy, right? You must stay and defend or be left behind by the rest of the "chosen ones" on their journey to everlasting peace in heaven.

You will always believe in him, always expect the best of him, and always stand your ground in defending him." (1 Corinthians 13:4-7

James. Do you hike?

Yes, I hike.

As for the things people were saying above. You know, you can say all these things about us if you like, but we'll continue caring for all the hikers we can.
James

As for the things people were saying above. You know, you can say all these things about us if you like, but we'll continue caring for all the hikers we can.
James

as long as they pay $$. all churches/cults are the same.

Speaking of useful quotes from the Good Book, it wouldn't hurt to have a look at Matthew 7:15, either. :rolleyes:

They're everywhere Jack. One way to tell is that there's generally money involved somewhere. :-?

as long as they pay $$. all churches/cults are the same.

There's no way that you can know that, since there's no way that you've visited them all. Or are you just smarter than the rest of us? :-?

yeah, pretty much

yeah, pretty much

Well, then I'm just glad to have crossed your path. :)

Well, then I'm just glad to have crossed your path. :)

But no, seriously, don't drink about 5 or 6 big cups of hot tea so as to make extra miles on the last day of a hike. Know what I mean? Whew. I may sleep later Heh. :banana

1) When I was there in late October 2006, they were kind and generous. They were friendly, mostly willing to converse, and interested in doing so. Staying with them helped my hike and my peace of mind. I had no issues of any kind with them. I heard indirectly of women hikers who did not like being forced to stay in a separate room (away from men hikers, e.g., most of their friends), and I could see couples being irritated at not being able to sleep together there. As a male with no female I was involved with along, this was a nonissue for me.

2) To get along with nonmembers better, they'd do well to use the standard English word for Jesus, e.g., "Jesus". (In Israel, where Hebrew is the language, "Yawheh" is fine. America is not Israel.) Men members cutting their hair to normal length would be wise as well. (The Mormons have even odder beliefs, and can manage this, so I don't see the problem.) Long hair on men equates to being counterculture, lower-class, lacking in personal hygiene, etc., to many people, so keeping hippie-length hair just causes them pointless difficulties. If they can cut their foreskins, they can cut their hair.

If they can cut their foreskins, they can cut their hair.


Now that is classic MS. :eek:

Minnesota Smith, how do you know they cut their foreskins?

Minnesota Smith, how do you know they cut their foreskins?

I read somewhere on their website that they think they will not get into heaven if they don't.

"Religion is the opiate of the masses" -Karl Marx. Organized religion is a major source of the world's woes today and has been for thousands of years. Too many people just use it as another criteria for discrimination. Too many hypocrites and not enough people practicing what they preach. Its real easy to live a moral live without it. The only religion you need is the Golden Rule.

When Karl Marx said that, supposedly his point was that religion was a pain reliever for the masses, more so than it was a mind-altering drug. This assessment goes well with how opium was primarily made use of in Europe at the time he lived.

When Karl Marx said that, supposedly his point was that religion was a pain reliever for the masses, more so than it was a mind-altering drug. This assessment goes well with how opium was primarily made use of in Europe at the time he lived.

I'm a modestly religious man.

Re foreskin surgery; I'll have the opium please.

"Organized religion is a major source of the world's woes today and has been for thousands of years.

Actually, at least in the past 75+ years, atheists have been the primary mass murderers in the world.

From http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM :

(I put known atheist regimes in red; Muslims are in green)

II 128,168,000 VICTIMS: THE DEKA-MEGAMURDERERS

4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State

5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill

6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State

7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime [China]III 19,178,000 VICTIMS: THE LESSER MEGA-MURDERERS

8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage Military

9. 2,035,000 Murdered: The Khmer Rouge Hell State

10. 1,883,000 Murdered: Turkey's Genocidal Purges

11. 1,670,000 Murdered: The Vietnamese War State

12. 1,585,000 Murdered: Poland's Ethnic Cleansing

13. 1,503,000 Murdered: The Pakistani Cutthroat State

14. 1,072,000 Murdered: Tito's SlaughterhouseIV 4,145,000 VICTIMS: SUSPECTED MEGAMURDERERS

15. 1,663,000 Murdered? Orwellian North Korea

religion is darnassinine. spirituality is the bomb

I spent four days with the 12 tribes when I was on the Appalachian Trail in 2004. They had a wedding while I was there and as part of the wedding had a play representing their spiritual beliefs. I helped set up stages and tents and tables, etc. and they talked to me a lot about their beliefs. I also attended one of their morning get togethers where they sing and dance. I never felt any pressure at all to join. (I'm an agnostic if that matters).

One of my hiking friends stayed with the tribes much longer. She was of a similar religion based mainly on following the old testament (very jewish-related other than the 'small' fact that they believe in Jesus as the lord and savior). Anyway she celebrated one of their festivals with them and lived in the house with members of the tribe and thought very seriously about joining. In the end she decided against it and continued hiking.

If you do join the tribe it is a very serious commitment. You are giving up a certain type of lifestyle for another lifestyle. It all felt too confining to me and I would have no interest in it. But for some it obviously fits them. The trouble comes IMO in the seperation from your old life once you join. It doesn't necessarily fit well with those left on the outside as the tribe becomes your new family. The parents of the bride were at the wedding I was at, but seemed very out of place and not completely comfortable. I also wonder about children who are born into the tribe and what choices they have.

I have mixed feelings about the place. Everyone I met was extremely friendly and answered any and all questions without any pressure. But it still felt like a cult and overly confining to me. I would not hesitate to stop back in and stay at the hostel and talk to the people again when I venture past on my next AT hike. And of course the food at their cafe is awesome.

I would just suggest that anyone thinking of joining the 12 tribes, take some time away from them and spend a bit with their own families or other friends, before deciding if that is the place they want to commit to.

I haven't read all the posts on this thread so don't know if this was posted, but here are some web sites on the 12 tribes

http://www.twelvetribes.org/

http://directory.ic.org/records/?action=view&page=view&record_id=2523

The twelve tribes is the closest that America comes to the FFL. (French Foreign Legion), it is for people who want a new structured life and/or need structure in their lives, recovering substance abusers, ex convicts to name a few. When you join you will be given a new name and identity. Parole officers and drug counselors consider the Tribes a good place for their "clients". And it is a good place, tribal members are watched day and night and there are few relaspses.
A majority of the members are male. A good portion of the women raised in the community leave. To prevent this woman exodus, the tribes are considering nuptials for children under ten years of age. The women are watched closely ("to keep them virgins" even the non-virgin women are watched closely)and are told when they are being "over familiar" with either, tribal members or non tribal members of the opposite sex. Flirting with the opposite sex is not allowed. You will see men giving men back rubs and, giving each other very affectionate hugs while in close physical proximity and you will see women snuggled close to each other while sitting. when a man and women have an attraction to each other, they can ask permission to the shepherds to go on a "waiting period" this allows the couple to hold hands and to talk alone with each other with out a third person present overhearing their conversation. Very affectionate hugs and sitting snuggled in close proximity is not allowed at this stage.
There is no transparency in the organization. Most of the decisions are made by the Sheppard's in private meetings. This contrasts with examples in the scriptures where all business is discussed at the town gate. There are approximately five thousand members in many countries. France, Germany, Spain, Brazil, and Argentina, Canada and the United States are the locations of the tribes taken from the Hebrew Scriptures. There are not any tribes left for Asia and Africa. People of African descent are referred to as Ha mites, descendants of Ham inheriting the curse of Ham.
The twelve tribes is composed of approximately fifty communities. These communities vary in size. There are many industries run by the tribes Cafes, Outfitters, Bakeries, Soap manufacturing, Mate distributing, construction companies and farms, to name a few of the major enterprises. This wealth is invested into real estate and enterprises. In spite of this wealth their homes often run out of heating oil. The everyday meals are extremely spartan. The households are alloted one dollar per person per meal. Note the Shepard's who travel quite often are given a generous meal allowance, You won't find them eating sack lunches.
Borrowed property is treated disrespectfully; They claim to hold all in common. The reality is that private property is allowed, New members are kept busy and their private property sits idle. The Older members can Borrow this property at will and return it at their leisure. Cars are often returned with dents and other damage, you can say good bye to your cell phone, laptop camera etc. The Shepard's property is always in use so don't even try to borrow it.
Those familiar with Christianity know of the Lords Prayer or The Model Prayer" , The prayer recited by Jesus when asked what to pray for. You Often Hear of the Tribes asking for the "wealth of the Nations", They often ask for farms, Houses and new millionaire members. Ex-members often have a curse put on them during the prayers, "give them no rest till they return". This contrasts with the biblical scripture's that say forced worship is unacceptable and an abomination. When Going into the "Breaking of Bread", Members are told to focus on Judas, the betrayer of Christ.
You won't see the children around because the children's discipline while legal will be distasteful. A non-member would not understand. Non-members who aid the tribes are referred to as "Servants".
All in all the rank and file, are fine people and many will receive their just reward. As for the leaders some of them are awesome, and inversely to the rank and file many are receiving their reward on earth. The quote "Absolute, power corrupts absolutely", sums almost all of the leaders up quite nicely. :-? David Derush is fairly high in the tribal organization and is also an apologist for the tribes, His insights receive priority within the organization. David will attack me but won't deny the truth of this posting.

Just wondering how you are so familiar with the 12 Tribes behind the scenes life?? This isn't a challenge to what you've said, just want to gauge it for accuracy.

The twelve tribes is the closest that America comes to the FFL. (French Foreign Legion), it is for people who want a new structured life and/or need structure in their lives, recovering substance abusers, ex convicts to name a few. When you join you will be given a new name and identity. Parole officers and drug counselors consider the Tribes a good place for their "clients". And it is a good place, tribal members are watched day and night and there are few relaspses.
A majority of the members are male. A good portion of the women raised in the community leave. To prevent this woman exodus, the tribes are considering pre-nuptials for children under ten years of age. The women are watched closely ("to keep them virgins" even the non-virgin women are watched closely)and are told when they are being "over familiar" with either, tribal members or non tribal members of the opposite sex. Flirting with the opposite sex is not allowed. You will see men giving men back rubs and, giving each other very affectionate hugs while in close physical proximity and you will see women snuggled close to each other while sitting. when a man and women have an attraction to each other, they can ask permission to the shepherds to go on a "waiting period" this allows the couple to hold hands and to talk alone with each other with out a third person present overhearing their conversation. Very affectionate hugs and sitting snuggled in close proximity is not allowed at this stage.
There is no transparency in the organization. Most of the decisions are made by the Sheppard's in private meetings. This contrasts with examples in the scriptures where all business is discussed at the town gate. There are approximately five thousand members in many countries. France, Germany, Spain, Brazil, and Argentina, Canada and the United States are the locations of the tribes taken from the Hebrew Scriptures. There are not any tribes left for Asia and Africa. People of African descent are referred to as Ha mites, descendants of Ham inheriting the curse of Ham.
The twelve tribes is composed of approximately fifty communities. These communities vary in size. There are many industries run by the tribes Cafes, Outfitters, Bakeries, Soap manufacturing, Mate distributing, construction companies and farms, to name a few of the major enterprises. This wealth is invested into real estate and enterprises. In spite of this wealth their homes often run out of heating oil. The everyday meals are extremely spartan. The households are alloted one dollar per person per meal. Note the Shepard's who travel quite often are given a generous meal allowance, You won't find them eating sack lunches.
Borrowed property is treated disrespectfully; They claim to hold all in common. The reality is that private property is allowed, New members are kept busy and their private property sits idle. The Older members can Borrow this property at will and return it at their leisure. Cars are often returned with dents and other damage, you can say good bye to your cell phone, laptop camera etc. The Shepard's property is always in use so don't even try to borrow it.
Those familiar with Christianity know of the Lords Prayer or The Model Prayer" , The prayer recited by Jesus when asked what to pray for. You Often Hear of the Tribes asking for the "wealth of the Nations", They often ask for farms, Houses and new millionaire members. Ex-members often have a curse put on them during the prayers, "give them no rest till they return". This contrasts with the biblical scripture's that say forced worship is unacceptable and an abomination. When Going into the "Breaking of Bread", Members are told to focus on Judas, the betrayer of Christ.
You won't see the children around because the children's discipline while legal will be distasteful. A non-member would not understand. Non-members who aid the tribes are referred to as "Servants".
All in all the rank and file, are fine people and many will receive their just reward. As for the leaders some of them are awesome, and inversely to the rank and file many are receiving their reward on earth. The quote "Absolute, power corrupts absolutely", sums almost all of the leaders up quite nicely. :-? David Derush is fairly high in the tribal organization and is also an apologist for the tribes, His insights receive priority within the organization. David will attack me but won't deny the truth of this posting.

Greenmtnboy,

If you lost a good friend of 12-years due to the twelve tribes you might feel different. The people are polite, pleasant as you said but they will also sick you in the back if you don't become part of their belief.

It is a cult.

Wolf
friends are people, not possessions

Hmmmm. . .:-?

quotes by his holiness the Dalai Lama, Tenzin Gyatso. "Religions must serve humanity, not the other way around." "It is important to use money properly to help others: otherwise you will still want more and feel poor." Sometimes religion becomes yet another source for more division and even open conflict. Because of that situation, I feel the different religious traditions have a great responsibility to provide peace of mind and a sense of brotherhood and sisterhood among humanity."

Could some one give me the hostel's address, phone#, & directions please.
Aodrey

802-775-9800 http://www.twelvetribes.com/whereweare/us/rutland.html

friends are people, not possessions

I agree, friends are not possessions and no one should tell others who they can be friends with and who they can not talk too.

Wolf

friends are people, not possessions

Would you say that if he lost his friend to drug addiction or something like that? Because it's really the same thing.

I do belive in GOD and i have read the bible cover to cover and i can tell you no where in the bible will it say a man and woman can't not be friends. This is something that is made up by places like the 12-Tribes they need to read the whole bible so they will know better.

I do belive in GOD and i have read the bible cover to cover and i can tell you no where in the bible will it say a man and woman can't not be friends. This is something that is made up by places like the 12-Tribes they need to read the whole bible so they will know better.
This is a hostel forum, not hostile. My understanding is that the 12 Tribes subscribe mostly to the old testament which is partly made up of the Torah and as such has a more rigid bent to it than the new testament.

they beat kids

this whole thing is a total non-issue.

If you don't want to stay at the twelve tribes, then DON'T STAY THERE. There are other places to crash in Rutland. It's not like they are walking up and down the trail trying to convince people to stay there.

we no longer go by the old testament not since god send his son to die for us and was not getting hostile just state the facts

I have seen this thread and topic beaten to death over the last year and then stomped on some more.

What more could there possibly be to say?

I'll just say.. I have never stayed there. But I find the folks to be really nice. Hey they ran the LT festival in Rutland, VT and did a fine job of it.

So give it a rest guys. 12 Tribes has been nice to hikers. For those who don't care for them..just don't stay with them.

David

Let's be level headed adults! Saying that Twelve Tribes is this or that or whether or not U want to join them is a completely different matter than just staying at a hiker hostel in downtown Rutland, VT, which I determined it was going to be for me when I stayed there for 3 days on my 06 AT thru-hike and for 2 days on my 07 Long Trl. thru-hike. The strong opinions voiced in this thread simply confirms that different people have different beliefs. Is that a "BAD" thing? Can we understand and accept that people have different beliefs without necessarily having to conform to another's beliefs? No one at no time tried to force me or "diabolically coax me" into joining or believing as they did. I found them to be extremely accommodating and friendly to me as well as every other hiker that I witnessed staying there; of course, they do this within the structure of their society. Do they consider themselves as an outreach to the hiking community? I'm sure they do. Will someone tell U what they believe if U lend them an ear? I'm sure they will. Be personally aware and responsible for the decisions U make and the environment U place yourself in and most people are not going to find a problem with stayng at Twelve Tribes.!!!

http://www.nasw.org/users/nbazilchuk/Articles/islandpond.htm

we no longer go by the old testament not since god send his son to die for us and was not getting hostile just state the facts

you use "facts" and scripture in the same sentence. funny.

you use "facts" and scripture in the same sentence. funny.

haha owned

we no longer go by the old testament not since god sen...(t) his son to die for us. ....
I've always found that a puzzle, haven't you? Why did an all powerful God send his "only begotten son" to be tortured and killed on the cross when surely he could have used less cruel ways of deciding who shall go to heaven and escape an eternity of flames.

Weary

Would you say that if he lost his friend to drug addiction or something like that? Because it's really the same thing.
not really. has your friend passed away ? If you were to speak to him now, would he tell you he's happy? are you a hiker? perhaps you should stop in & visit your friend sometime & resolve these issues.

I've always found that a puzzle, haven't you? Why did an all powerful God send his "only begotten son" to be tortured and killed on the cross when surely he could have used less cruel ways of deciding who shall go to heaven and escape an eternity of flames.

Weary
Crucifixion is less cruel than an eternity of flames.

While were on the subject of hostels, what is everyones favorite hostel / least favorite? Why?

I've always found that a puzzle, haven't you?

no less puzzling than a religion that would use as its principal icon a ghastly form of capital punishment... :rolleyes:

While were on the subject of hostels, what is everyones favorite hostel / least favorite? Why?

FreeState Hiker Hostel in Maryland. New in 2007, and beautiful. Run by an '06 thru-hiker and his wife. Don't miss it!

While were on the subject of hostels, what is everyones favorite hostel

any hostel that allows you to tent is a good one. Shaw's was my favorite

While were on the subject of hostels, what is everyones favorite hostel / least favorite? Why?Obviously I haven't stayed at every place and a few weren't that great, I had an experience with the 12 tribes place and it was strange, but they weren't exactly jerks or anything.

I have very fond memories of the following places, especially the ones in bold print.

Walasi-Yi, Haven's Budget Inn, Standing Indian Campground, Hike Inn, Standing Bear Farm, Miss Janet's, Kincora, Doyle Hotel, Graymoor Spiritual Life Center, Glencliff Hiker's Welcome, Andover Road House, the little BnB in Caratunk, and Shaw's, off the top of my head.

While were on the subject of hostels, what is everyones favorite hostel / least favorite? Why?
Shaw's :):)

Least favorite - The Barn , Gorham - stayed less than 5 minutes.

The info on the twelve tribes was posted so that people who are interested in their way of life can ask intelligent questions. This way of life is the only way that some people can cope with their problems. The twelve tribes activly try to recruit people hiking on the trail. They serve breakfest at trail days, help with the Long Trail Festival, Operate a hostel in Rutland and plan to open another Hostel close to the blackburn center, which is close to thier Hillsdale community. If you have been receptive to their message two of them will hike out to meet you on the AT. If you are seriously considering their way of life read my previous posting and ask for the lititure not shown to prospective members without supervision "The Fundimental Teachings" and "The Communicater". Ask to observe their child discipline which is completely legal. Every one has a right to know exactly what they are joining before they commit their time and property to a cause.

:eek: If you want to know how the truth about the Twelve Tribes from someone who has had 30 years of experience visit the following site:

Yoneq and the Twelve Tribes (http://yattt.blogspot.com/)

The following article gives some insight into the deceptive recruiting practices

Truth in Advertising (http://yattt.blogspot.com/2008/01/do-you-want-some-hips-and-thighs-with.html)

The following article gives more details on the other businesses the TT has that produce millions of dollars each year off of slave labor of the members and their children

The Twelve Tribes Money Machine (http://yattt.blogspot.com/2008/02/twelve-tribes-money-machine.html)

Why the huge expansion of this group? Why are there few non-hierarchical Christian fellowship farms out there? Where do you go if you have no addictions, want to serve the Lord and healthy fellowship, without having to give up your life savings to the leaders? It shouldn't be that hard to set up voluntary, quality fellowship groups like existed in the 1800's.

They have flourished for obvious reasons. There are a lot of intentional communities in the US--but it takes a lot of perseverance and structure to keep them together...:sun

please, more freak show stories...

here's a for what it's worth.

http://chattanoogan.com/articles/article_127636.asp

Wow- this is very interesting. My brother is actually part of this "cult". And- yes, I do believe it's a cult but I also believe any form of religion is a cult. Another story- anyways, I've visited him in other places and the people are extremely nice and though believe you'd be better off joining them, do not brainwash you to do so- I do believe there's "brainwashing" once you're in but the people can choose to leave whenver they want- my brother actually left for a couple of months but couldn't handle the real world so came back to it. This place is purely a business. They own restaurants, sell soaps, cream, candles, furniture and other stuff. The main people are making millions of dollars and the people in it believe the money goes right back to the community. It is communistic but I believe my brother is better off in there- it's his choice. It is also very sexist since it believes the bible exactly. Not for everyone but everyone I have met in it, are very happy and can leave. I do not agree with it but I also do not agree with several other religions that are harmless to the people so to each it's own. My 2 cents. I don't usually post on here because I feel there are so many people on here that have nothing better to do that critize everything but since I have a little bit of knowledge on this- wanted to share my thoughts.

favorite hostels/ hotels/ campgrounds
1. Standing Bear
2. Shaw's
3. Haven's Budget Inn
4. White Birches
5. Green Mountain House
6. Free State Hiker Hostel
7. The Doyle
8. Kincora
9. Cloud 9
10. Hiker Inn (Damascus)

Least Favorite
1. Uncle Johnny's
2. The Barn
3. Days Inn Front Royal

Dont have many I didnt like. The one's I didnt like were because of price and conditions. Uncle Johnny's was for personal reasons.
Standing Bear holds a special place in my heart.

I will have to say that the 12 tribes place in Rutland is awesome. i left them out of my top 10 because of no shuttling and its just really tight there when its busy. Also the whole man woman thing. I undrestand and respect their wishes about the dormitory thing. They were really good to us and I will always have nothing but great things to say about them.

While were on the subject of hostels, what is everyones favorite hostel / least favorite? Why?

Seems most good hostels are here today gone tomorrow. The good ones that stick around cater to more than just hikers. Shaws has winter sports customers, same with WHL, Ironmasters has cyclists, Dutch Haus & Mountain Harbour (attached B&B), Cloud 9 (RVer's), NOC (rafters), etc.

Point is.....serving hikers cannot be a moneymaking proposition. And yet, we read about too many hikers who feel they get ripped off by service providers.

If you want to do a thruhike on the cheap, plan to camp in the woods.

1. Standing Bear
2. Kincora ( where else can you hear about fwozen hikers on top of woan mountain that needed wescue after a hard days twail work)
3. Mountain Crossings ( for the mix of friends and atmosphere)

Favorites in no particular order-
1 Kincora
2 Blueberry Patch
3 Sunnybank Inn
4 Mountain Harbour
5 Twelve Tribes
6 White Birches

-Haven's budget inn is nice but not a hostel.
-Woodstock Station and Inn had an insane hiker discount (still not cheap, $55) and was awsome. Eggs Benedict with filet mignon for breakfast included in room price.
-Stowell Galleries was nice just because of talking with the owner who is the former mayor and architect for the NPS.

Dumps-
1 Barn

Sunnybank Inn is not a hostel

Sunnybank Inn is not a hostel
It is run in a manner similar to one - for hikers. But yes, it is in fact a B&B.

it's not a b&b. breakfast is extra. it's nothing like a hostel. he just gives reduced rates to hikers

Technically, Sunnybank (Elmer's) is called an Inn and Retreat.