View Full Version : crap...can I still tie this hammock up?
I'm literally getting ready to walk out the door to try to hang a hammock for the first time and am reviewing how to tie the knots. Every single example (including the bag the hammock is in) references the web straps that you wrap around the tree.
I don't think I see any in this hammock (I'm borrowing it), can I still tie this thing effectively enough to get an idea about the way a hammock feels? If so, what knot do I use?
I'm literally getting ready to walk out the door to try to hang a hammock for the first time and am reviewing how to tie the knots. Every single example (including the bag the hammock is in) references the web straps that you wrap around the tree.
I don't think I see any in this hammock (I'm borrowing it), can I still tie this thing effectively enough to get an idea about the way a hammock feels? If so, what knot do I use?
i use the multiple figure 8 knot:cool: neo
http://www.hennessyhammock.com/images/lashing.jpg
Just Jeff
09-09-2006, 14:53
The Spectra can damage a tree if you don't use the straps (Tree Huggers). Can you find a place to hang it w/o trees? Like a picnic pavilion or something?
Otherwise, just find something to protect the tree from the Spectra. A folded over hand towel or something. Don't want to hike with it that way but it'll work well enough to try it out.
Ok, I went outside and practiced w/a piece of 550 cord around a steel beam. (not the hammock yet) and I think I see how to do it w/out tree huggers, but I totally see how it would damage a tree. There is no pavilion where I live, so I'm going to take some towels and do my best to protect the trees. I'm not spending the night or even sleeping in it for that matter, so hopefully the damage (if any) will be minimal.
Geez...do you two just sit around waiting for people to post questions about hammocks?! :)) That was VERY FAST turn around time for a saturday afternoon question! Thanks JJ and Neo!! I'll let you know how it goes today.
SGT Rock
09-09-2006, 15:13
Just a lot of hammockers as regulars on WB
Just Jeff
09-09-2006, 15:15
Yep - I'm between soccer games today so I thought I'd check in. My son won 3-2. We'll see how my team does...might need some hammock time afterwards!
:D my whole family are hammock hanging fools:cool: neo
SGT Rock
09-09-2006, 15:17
I put mine up today for a fix http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=12735&c=577
DawnTreader
09-09-2006, 16:09
Hammocking in the backyard is fun.. I always get great looks from the neighbors. So What do you think Michele, are you converted yet?? Be careful though, once you start hanging, you won't want to tent again.. Are you considering an HH for your thru hike?
Hammocking in the backyard is fun.. I always get great looks from the neighbors.
Mine's in the backyard right now. Spent the night out there night before last. There needs to be a support group for these kinds of things. :D speedy
Ok everyone after going out on this little hiking trail in the woods for the past 3 hrs and hanging an Expedition 2.5 HH for the first time, I think I'm going to have to take the leap..buy the set-up I want, and try this out on some overnights. :rolleyes:
Although I didn't exactly have all of the "normal" pieces for hanging (no tree huggers, and no tensioning lines for the tarp), I still managed to successfully do it. After I got it tied up, I was about to just get inside, but then decided I best test my set-up by first just sitting in it like a chair. Success!! My worst fear had been debunked (that I wouldn't be able to tie a good knot to hold it)
So, I crawled in and thought it was very very cool. Here's some questions I have now.
If it is not an asym hammock (this one is not), do you still lay asymmetrically in it (or is the asym referring to the tarp)?
I tried all kinds of positions, side, partial stomach (which I NEVER do in my bed) and of course my back. All seemed comfortable for this test. I tried laying at no angle vs. as perpendicular as I could, scooted up/down, etc. Just to get a feel for it.
When putting up the tarp (the stock tarp) is it supposed to rest on the ridgeline of the hammock?
I woud think you'd want a bit amount of space, depending on weather conditions. I kind of rigged it due to not having line tensioners, but I got the gist of it. I would not have trusted it to keep me dry w/the way I put it up, but I wanted to at least try. I, for some reason, think putting the tarp up will be harder for me than the hammock.
So I layed there...and layed there...and was actually almost asleep! Then someone came walking down the trail and startled me (not REALLY supposed to "camp" here...but I didn't consider what I was doing camping). You should have seen the way this guy was looking over at me..pretty hilarious.
I now also totally understand the importance of underside insulation. It's pretty cool here today w/a good breeze, and I could feel a huge temp. difference from my back and front, and I now also understand what Sgt. Rock said about cutting the blue cc pad from Wal-mart so that it curls up the sides. Any part of my body that touched the canvas part of the hammock was losing heat, even if it was my arms up against the sides.
What I loved the most about this experience was how easy and fast it was to put up and take down. I swear I could put this thing up/down 5 times in the amount of time it takes me to put up my Hubba (which isn't hard...but you have to be more selective of your site as you all know)
Sooooooooo......I'm nervous about dropping the kind of $ I'll have to, but I think I'm going to go ahead and order the following:
1. HH Ultralite Asym (was going to go for the Hyperlite, but after reading the fine print, found out the weight doesn't include a velcro closure, tree huggers, mesh pocket, which would probably make it close in weight to the Ultralite anyways...which is cheaper)
2. JRB Nest underquilt
I'm going to hold off ordering a different tarp until I know for sure this is what I want. If I can make this work, then I'd love to order a MacCat, but if not possible, I'll get the JRB 8x8 tarp.
I can only make a final decision once I've gone out, hiked all day, and then sleep in it over night a few times, but so far it seems quite promising!
Ok...just ordered them! As soon as they come in, I'll go back out to this place and set it all up, then it's off for the real test. Hopefully soon!!! (I'm grinning from ear to ear right now by the way!)
Just Jeff
09-09-2006, 20:12
Glad you liked it! Some opinions...
- Tensioners aren't "normal" but they sure help.
- Most hammocks are designed to be laid in diagonally even if they're not specifically cut that way. Clark and Crazy Creek are two exceptions. The HH tarp is only asym b/c the hammock is.
- Resting the tarp on the HH ridgeline means it's not tight enough, and loose tarps can cause condensation problems or flap around in the breeze. Always pitch it tightly. High and open during nice weather, and low and tight during windy/rainy weather. Hanging the tarp should be very easy...not sure why you had problems. Just clip the ends and stake the sides. Or if you hang it separately, you just hang the ends and stake the sides.
Have fun with your new toys!
[quote=Just Jeff] Hanging the tarp should be very easy...not sure why you had problems. Just clip the ends and stake the sides.
quote]
I did clip the ends on the plastic o-rings on the ends of the hammock at first, but the tarp wasn't pulled tightly when I did this so I chose to tie it around the trees as well...but even then it wasn't totally tight. Maybe I picked trees too close together? I was a little limited because all I had to tie the hammock up with were the ropes themselves, so I can see how I'd be able to choose trees farther apart w/tree huggers.
What part of the tying do you use tensioners on anyway? I assumed the tarp, but do you use them on the hammock too? I saw several people's ideas w/tensioners, can't remember where now.
Seriously, thanks to all you hangers out there for all of your help and advice. I'd trust this community any day over a sales person at an outfitters.
:welcome to the dark side. You're one of us now. You can never go back.
Not sure why the tarp wasn't tight. Once you clipped it to the support line connectors did you slide the knots apart to tension it? Did you tie out the sides? Glad you liked it! :D speedy
Jeff, I've always wondered how tensioners hold up under high winds. Did you have them on your MacCat for the winnemucca lake trip?
blackbishop351
09-09-2006, 21:52
By "tensioners", do you mean some sort of Self Tensioning Line?
If so, the popular use for STLs is for the two tarp-to-ground tie-outs, although I think a few people use them on the tarp-to-tree tie-outs too.
I made a set of STLs from slingshot replacement bands from Walmart, but the bands weren't strong enough. Eventually, I'll get around to getting some stronger tubing and making a new set. What I'm using now is a couple of the small plastic "tautline hitch" gadgets that came with my 9x9 tarp. They're actually working quite well, so I may not switch to STLs. At least not until I experience expansion problems due to rain.
As far as STLs on the tarp's ridge (to the tree), you'd likely need MUCH stronger bands. I'd thought about trying this at one point, but Just Jeff made a good observation - STLs to the ground will take up plenty of slack, so the extra pair would really just be extra weight.
I don't know of any STL-type system that would be strong enough for the hammock's support lines.
Mine's in the backyard right now. Spent the night out there night before last. There needs to be a support group for these kinds of things. :D speedy
:D i hammock hang regularly in my back yard:cool: neo
This is what I meant when I said there were no tensioners. It was tarp w/a plastic clip and a plastic ring on the two head/foot ends of the tarp and then some old fashioned vinyl rope tied to those rings...no knots or anything. There were also elasticy small lines attached to the tarp sides that I staked out. There was no way to tension the tarp at the hammock head/footend. This is why I opted to just use the rope on the tarp ends to tie it to the trees, but the tarp was still longer than the space between my trees.
Like I said, I think my trees were a bit too close together, but I think I'll go back out tomorrow and try again. Obviously mrc237 used this hammock a few times, so he's probably modified the set-up to suit his style. It's all good, because I can still make it work for my testing purposes.
I will admit though, I don't quite understand the concept behind the homemade STL's w/slingshot bands. I'd need to see a picture I think.
In the meantime, I went to REI and bought that $5.00 plastic card set of common knots and I've learned how to tie a tautline (the kind you can slide to adjust tension but holds under load) and I've practiced the knot used for the hammock ends (550 cord and my coffee table leg), so I've got all of it committed to memory now. Repetition is the key, so I'll practice more tomorrow!
hammock engineer
09-09-2006, 23:22
In a nutshell the tensioners go onto the siede tie outs of the tarp. I have the McCat tarp and tie it directly to the trees. When you stake out the sides, you strech the tensioners out to about 4-6 inches longer than normal. Over the course of the night with condenstion the tarp gets heavier and sags. The tensioners take up this slack and keeps the tarp tight. They also help in blowing wind.
Set up your tarp overnight and it will become obvious. You could set up one end without tensioners to show the difference. I had to set mine up in the cold to finally make this click to me.
One more thing, GO BUCKS!!!
hammock engineer
09-09-2006, 23:25
One more thing, I cut off the rope in my HH and added straps instead. I used 3/4" thick ones (I think). This does away with dealing with the HH knot and seperate tree huggers. I use the Speer 4 wrap knot out of his book. Really easy to tie and untie. Something to look into if you don't plan on returning your hammock.
Just Jeff
09-10-2006, 01:37
The tarp needs to be able to stretch tightly across the ridgeline. If the trees are too close the tarp will sag. This may not be a problem in fair weather or light rain, but with the stock HH tarp in windy rain I'd definitely look for trees that are far enough apart to stretch the ridgeline tightly. The HH is now sold with a sliding prussik knot on the hammock support rope, and the tarp clips into this...you just slide it along the hammock support to tighten the ridgeline. It's very easy but can also make the tarp sag when you get in...that's one reason many of us tie the tarp directly to the tree.
AFAIK, HH tarps don't come w/ elastic on them. Maybe mrc put that on there himself?
Like the others have said, tensioners usually go on the staked corners only.
Picture of tarp tensioners:
http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearTarpTensioner2.html
And JRB calls them STL on their website http://www.jacksrbetter.com
Speedy, I had two homemade tensioners and two JRB STLs on the MacCat for that trip. My homemade tensioners weren't putting any more tension on the tarp b/c it was too cold. The next morning, my homemade ones had failed, one of the JRB tensioners failed, and one ridgeline cord failed. That ridgeline end was also connected to the hammock w/ a mini-carabiner, so the tarp was flapping on one JRB tensioner, one ridgeline cord and that carabiner on the other end of the ridgeline.
It's important for tensioners to have a fail-safe so that at full extension, the pressure is on the cord and not the elastic. That's why the cord is fed through the inside of the tensioner...it keeps the elastic from extending to failure. And in order to absorb wind gusts, you don't want the tubes at full extension...gotta have enough room for them to extend and absorb the gust.
On another note, I think it's important for the cord to fail before the tarp. If winds are bad enough that the cord fails, you can repair it by tying a square knot. But if your cord is strong enough that those winds rip your tarp first, you may lose a very valuable piece of gear right when you need it most. A systems approach...plan failure of the easily repaired component first. Just the system I like, though...everyone has to find what works for them.
peter_pan
09-10-2006, 08:55
Michele,
To eliminate the fly/tarp sag problem add a line, recommend 9 ft, to the two corners that normally go in the hooks....Then tie to the trees...IT is the only way to eliminate the sag caused by weighting the hammock with the fly attached to the now moving downward suspension lines..... There are ways to field rig weights to minimize this problem...better to eliminate a problem than work around it...Also, when expecting rough weather, tie to the trees at a point 6-10 inches below the point that the hammock suspension is tied. At set up the fly/tarp will rest on the ridge of the hammock net....when weighted the hammock ridge will be 6-8 inches below the fly/tarp which is about perfect, high enough not to be a condensation trapper, close enough for great protection.
Pan
PS. Your Nest is already enroute, USPS Priority...expect it Tues or Wed.
Michele,
To eliminate the fly/tarp sag problem add a line, recommend 9 ft, to the two corners that normally go in the hooks....Then tie to the trees...IT is the only way to eliminate the sag caused by weighting the hammock with the fly attached to the now moving downward suspension lines..... There are ways to field rig weights to minimize this problem...better to eliminate a problem than work around it...Also, when expecting rough weather, tie to the trees at a point 6-10 inches below the point that the hammock suspension is tied. At set up the fly/tarp will rest on the ridge of the hammock net....when weighted the hammock ridge will be 6-8 inches below the fly/tarp which is about perfect, high enough not to be a condensation trapper, close enough for great protection.
PS. Your Nest is already enroute, USPS Priority...expect it Tues or Wed.
Pan
Wow Pan!! I'm a little slow at times :rolleyes: and didnt' realize you were a JRB person! Cool...and thanks for such a quick shippment...I can't wait to get all of this and get out there. Hopefully my hammock will get here next week and I can go out next weekend.
I do remember reading that storm set up now that I think of it. So, besides that, are there any other specialy set-ups for the tarp? I think I'll go out and try this one today. I'm assuming it is also probably the warmest set-up as well? Thanks!!!
peter_pan
09-10-2006, 14:23
Pan
Wow Pan!! I'm a little slow at times :rolleyes: and didnt' realize you were a JRB person! Cool...and thanks for such a quick shippment...I can't wait to get all of this and get out there. Hopefully my hammock will get here next week and I can go out next weekend.
I do remember reading that storm set up now that I think of it. So, besides that, are there any other specialy set-ups for the tarp? I think I'll go out and try this one today. I'm assuming it is also probably the warmest set-up as well? Thanks!!!
Then...there is the trick of hanging on a windward upslope and rigging your tarp as a sail to catch either the prevailing westerlies or rising thermals to deflect them down over you on that 80 degree August night....
Many like the stock fly....many opt for more protection and security of a larger tarp....Which ever way you go learn the pitch options and correct techniques to keep you dry and ventilated to enjoy your hang out.
Pan
Ok....is there one place either on-line or in a book that has all of this info? Thanks!!
Just Jeff
09-10-2006, 16:22
Ed Speer's Hammock Camping book (lots of the info is at http://www.hammockcamping.com), Pan's articles section at his website (http://www.jacksrbetter.com), and my website.