View Full Version : Carrying a tent in the winter?
milemarker424
11-13-2006, 14:59
I'm going on my first winter hike and I'm wondering if I need to bring a tent. I don't anticipate having any trouble getting to the shelters each night, and if I was doing this hike in the Summer, there is no way I would bring a tent. However, someone suggested carrying a tent for setting it up in the shelter which would be hopefully warmer than a tent or a shelter alone. I know you're not supposed to do that, but I doubt there will be many other people on the trail, and if some other group came along, I would gladly make room for them. Is it worth bringing the tent for the added warmth? I am usually cold at night - but I also can't carry much more than 30 lbs.
Lone Wolf
11-13-2006, 15:02
Definetely bring a tent.
Definetely bring a tent.
Both winter and summer. Shelters are often full -- especially in the summer. If anything, a tent is needed more in summer than winter.
D'Artagnan
11-13-2006, 15:10
Better to have and not need than need and not have, IMHO.
Lone Wolf
11-13-2006, 15:10
I agree. I always sleep in my tent. Never shelters no matter what. Have I ever told you that I think they suck?:)
A tent in winter will keep you warmer by about 10 deg. and will also keep the wind and possible blowing snow off you. I've tried it both ways, in tent and in shelter and it was coooooold in the shelter, too drafty if you know what I mean.
Bloodroot
11-13-2006, 15:22
Also would be good in an emergency situation.
ALWAYS have a shelter that you carry w/ you, doesn't matter what season, doesn't matter if it is a tent or just a tarp. the shelter might be full, you might be injured, forcing you to stop before you arrive at a shelter. don't go with out some form of shelter.
tents (set up correctly) will keep you dryer than a tarp
advantage to tent in summer is its bug free
advantage to tent in winter, your tent will most likely warm up to about 10* warmer than the outside air. (i don't have anything to back this up, i've just heard it from several people, also i don't know if this applies to single wall tents)
tarp will protect you from various forms of precipitation, but you do have to be carefull w/ where you set up your tarp because of runoff once rain hits the ground
yes setting up a tent in a shelter is offen considered rude unless its empty or there isn't more than one or two others there, but that means you need a free-standing tent, which requires more $$$. if there are only a couple others there, be sure to ask before setting it up. I saw tents in shelters only twice this summer, once was two ladies in their pearl earrings who set their tent up in what became a full shelter (w/ several tents set up around) and had to be asked to move their tents closer so more people could fit in.
The other time was w/ me and two other hikers in a shelter, one of them waited till near dark, so he knew chances of another hiker coming wasn't much, then asked if we minded him setting his up, there was plenty of room and it was fine.
What if, for some reason, you don't get to a shelter? You could get some injury, have to go through deep snow, (that will slow you down) could get lost, lots of reasons you might not get to a shelter. Don't take the chance even for one night.
Jim Adams
11-13-2006, 15:53
if you need to ask this question you have no business winter hiking!!!
go with someone with winter experience, at least the first time.
geek
Lone Wolf
11-13-2006, 15:57
Did anyone else read the tip in backpacker magazine where they advised not carrying a shelter as a means to save weight in off season trips on the AT?
I don't read that rag but maybe I should get a subscription to learn such great tips as that.
mweinstone
11-13-2006, 16:38
whenever i see a tent in a shelter i think one thing,a**hole. bigtime.if i pull in and you have your tent set up inside,.. you will never hear my voice. i will cold shoulder you so freaky youll run in the morning. you wont get me to talk. ever. all night youll be asking yourself if your safe with a silent freak. as you walk away ill say in a calm voice,"the reason i didnt speak with you is because you had your tent set up in the shelter. " and then ill be nice after that if they wanna chat. the end.
Lone Wolf
11-13-2006, 17:02
I gotta agree. A tent should never be set up in a shelter. Ever.
milemarker424
11-13-2006, 17:31
i always carry a little tarp which is perfect on summer rainy windy nights even if i don't make it to a shelter. i'm not an idiot! or a geek...
also, what is the problem with a tent in a shelter, if nobody else is staying there that night?
like i said in my original post, i would never tent in a shelter if anyone else wanted room. i obviously know this is rude.
also, i find the shelters provide a lot of warmth, especially if i hang my little tarp in the opening.
i was only asking if the tent was worth the weight and i guess you are all saying it is.
however, i'm not convinced. i trust my experience and innovation to help me through any emergency or injury without a tent. anyone else want to try to convince me? like i said, i really cannot carry much weight.
Bloodroot
11-13-2006, 17:35
i trust my experience and innovation to help me through any emergency or injury without a tent. anyone else want to try to convince me? like i said, i really cannot carry much weight.
You been watching 'Survivorman' too much.:D
C-Stepper
11-13-2006, 17:35
You can certainly carry a tent and winter gear and remain WELL under 30 pounds, including food and water.
You may want to rethink your kit to see if you can improve your base weight. How heavy is that tent?
milemarker424
11-13-2006, 17:38
3 lbs. but still....
yeah survivorman is the best show besides man vs. wild. haha
Bloodroot
11-13-2006, 17:42
3 lbs. but still....
yeah survivorman is the best show besides man vs. wild. haha
See! Now it's time to face true reality! You won't have a camera man to back you up when something goes down.
Now it would truly bother some of us here if you didn't take this advice. Every year or so someone/someones get stranded up in the mountains and face near death for this reason alone. In all seriousness, it just makes sense just like bringing food.
Jack Tarlin
11-13-2006, 17:47
There's no point in having anyone try and convince you as it seems you've pretty much made up your mind.
But I can't help but think of a line from your first post, where you say you don't anticipate having any trouble getting to a shelter each night.
Having been involved with lots of searches and rescues of people with all sorts of experience and backgrounds, one common theme is that NOBODY expects or anticipates having their trip end up in an emergency situation, never mind a life-threatening one (and emergencies in wintertime can very easily become life-threatening).
Nobody expects to get lost, or to get injured. Nobody expects to discover the Trail is harder than they'd expected, or that mud or snow conditions caused them to make far fewer miles by day's end. Nobody expects to find themselves in total darkness, miles from a shelter, without a working flashlight or headlamp.
But all of these things happen, and they happen much more often than you might think.
One should never take for granted that they'll ALWAYS end up at a particular spot (or shelter) at the end of the day, as there are too many factors or variables that might prevent you from doing so.
You say that you "don't anticipate any trouble" in geting to your shelter every day.
Fact is, most emergencies in the backcountry involve problems and situations that aren't anticipated, and this is why prudent people think and plan ahead, and carry the necesary gear to handle these unforseen circumstances when they arrive.
(And we haven't even mentioned the possibility---even tho it's remote---that
you might arrive exhausted at day's end at a shelter and discover, against all odds, that it's completely filled. There are, after all, Scout and college groups that go out in the outdoors even in the dead of winter. Or you might arrive at a shelter and find that while it isn't filled, perhaps there are people present you don't wish to overnight with, for any number of reasons. And on the A.T., this happens more often than you might think).
I'm glad you trust you "experience and innovation" to get you thru emergency situations. However, in wintertime, especially in the Northeast, this is not always sufficient.
Bring a tent, tarp, or bivy with you, always.
For your first winter trip, yes, you should most deffinetly carry a tent. After that, rely on your experience to make the best judgement call. But for your first time out in winter, it would be foolish to not carry a tent.
i always carry a little tarp which is perfect on summer rainy windy nights even if i don't make it to a shelter. i'm not an idiot! or a geek...
also, what is the problem with a tent in a shelter, if nobody else is staying there that night?
like i said in my original post, i would never tent in a shelter if anyone else wanted room. i obviously know this is rude.
also, i find the shelters provide a lot of warmth, especially if i hang my little tarp in the opening.
i was only asking if the tent was worth the weight and i guess you are all saying it is.
however, i'm not convinced. i trust my experience and innovation to help me through any emergency or injury without a tent. anyone else want to try to convince me? like i said, i really cannot carry much weight.
watch it w/ the geek comments, even if we don't admit it, we are all geeks in here. lol
I think you will be suprised w/ the number of people in shelters, unless your south bound or starting extremely early (i assume your are talking about this for a thru)
Also I'm wondering if your asking about taking a tent instead of a tarp. thats personal choice. Tents do have many advantages, including not sleeping in shelters. Tarps are simple and light, but not much warmth.
if you are worried about weight of a tent look at www.tarptent.com
And keep in mind experience and innovation don't help much when your brain is suffering from hypothermia, shock, or an illness.
So let’s see what happens as you lose core temperature:
98.6°F- your brain functions normally
97°F - judgment starts to go; as temperature decreases so does mental ability
96°F - you begin shivering, there is loss of fine motor skills like tying shoes
94°F - coordination is failing, you start stumbling; shivering increases
generoll
11-13-2006, 18:20
I'm curious as to why you would ask a question and then take exception to the responses. Were you truly asking or just making a statement? If you were in a shelter and had a tent, at what point would you decide to pitch your tent in the shelter? How late is too late for new arrivals? If womeone came to the shelter and you had already pitched your tent inside the shelter, would you wait for them to ask before you moved?
There's no point in having anyone try and convince you as it seems you've pretty much made up your mind.
But I can't help but think of a line from your first post, where you say you don't anticipate having any trouble getting to a shelter each night.
Having been involved with lots of searches and rescues of people with all sorts of experience and backgrounds, one common theme is that NOBODY expects or anticipates having their trip end up in an emergency situation, never mind a life-threatening one (and emergencies in wintertime can very easily become life-threatening).
Nobody expects to get lost, or to get injured. Nobody expects to discover the Trail is harder than they'd expected, or that mud or snow conditions caused them to make far fewer miles by day's end. Nobody expects to find themselves in total darkness, miles from a shelter, without a working flashlight or headlamp.
But all of these things happen, and they happen much more often than you might think.
One should never take for granted that they'll ALWAYS end up at a particular spot (or shelter) at the end of the day, as there are too many factors or variables that might prevent you from doing so.
You say that you "don't anticipate any trouble" in geting to your shelter every day.
Fact is, most emergencies in the backcountry involve problems and situations that aren't anticipated, and this is why prudent people think and plan ahead, and carry the necesary gear to handle these unforseen circumstances when they arrive.
(And we haven't even mentioned the possibility---even tho it's remote---that
you might arrive exhausted at day's end at a shelter and discover, against all odds, that it's completely filled. There are, after all, Scout and college groups that go out in the outdoors even in the dead of winter. Or you might arrive at a shelter and find that while it isn't filled, perhaps there are people present you don't wish to overnight with, for any number of reasons. And on the A.T., this happens more often than you might think).
I'm glad you trust you "experience and innovation" to get you thru emergency situations. However, in wintertime, especially in the Northeast, this is not always sufficient.
Bring a tent, tarp, or bivy with you, always.
Jack, as he often does -- but not always -- has given us wise advice. His weakness almost never involves how to survive comfortably and with marginal damage on the trail, but on his political views, that are eccentric, to say the least.
But regardless of such eccentricities, wise folks follow his advice on things like tents, maps, safety, etc. I know I do, even though I have 30 years more excperience than he has. Let's all applaud Baltimore Jack!
Weary
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-13-2006, 19:24
Amen to what Weary said above. I would recommend a bivy rather than a tent, however. You mention also having a small tarp tp cover the opening. A bivy and small tarp would be adequate protection in an emergency and used together in an empty or nearly empty shelter would also provide comfort.
NICKTHEGREEK
11-13-2006, 19:30
whenever i see a tent in a shelter i think one thing,a**hole. bigtime.if i pull in and you have your tent set up inside,.. you will never hear my voice. i will cold shoulder you so freaky youll run in the morning. you wont get me to talk. ever. all night youll be asking yourself if your safe with a silent freak. as you walk away ill say in a calm voice,"the reason i didnt speak with you is because you had your tent set up in the shelter. " and then ill be nice after that if they wanna chat. the end.
Very small downside for a night of quiet, but how is "saying in a calm voice ,"the reason i didnt speak with you is because you had your tent set up in the shelter." " construed to be not talking... ever?
Jack Tarlin
11-13-2006, 19:31
Geez, Weary, you have such a charming way of complimenting people, kinda like patting someone on the head and kicking them in the ass, all at the same time! :D
So I'll give it a shot, too:
When Weary is speaking of the North Country; of Land Trusts and Preservation; and of what growing up in Maine was REALLY like in the years just before the Great Rebellion of 1861, well you couldn't possibly find anyone on Whiteblaze more accurate or well-informed.
On matters political, he's also great company, especially for those whose headwear collections primarily consists of homemade tin-foil beanies.
But his last post was commendable and right on the money, so I thank him for it!
milemarker424
11-13-2006, 20:48
no, im pretty much convinced. and obviously you don't expect an emergency - but i am reasonably prepared for an emergency. and like i said, i DO carry a tarp. you can't ever be prepared for everything.
i think i will split the weight of my tent with someone and still carry my tarp. afterall, i have to admit that in the case of an emergency, although i would survive with what i have, i'd be a lot more comfy in a tent.
milemarker424
11-13-2006, 20:56
I'm curious as to why you would ask a question and then take exception to the responses. Were you truly asking or just making a statement? If you were in a shelter and had a tent, at what point would you decide to pitch your tent in the shelter? How late is too late for new arrivals? If womeone came to the shelter and you had already pitched your tent inside the shelter, would you wait for them to ask before you moved?
oh i was totally asking! i just like to discuss and really weigh the opinions before i just change my mind. also, i would never wait for someone to ask!!! i am not the type - i would just take down my tent immediately if anyone else came - and insist that they sleep in the shelter.
ps. this isn't a thru hike - like i said in my original post, its just a short winter hike - i know the shelters are frequently full in the summer, and i expect to see people in the winter, but not as many.
ps. this isn't a thru hike - like i said in my original post, its just a short winter hike - i know the shelters are frequently full in the summer, and i expect to see people in the winter, but not as many.
oops sorry, missed that
mweinstone "whenever i see a tent in a shelter i think one thing,a**hole. bigtime.if i pull in and you have your tent set up inside,.. you will never hear my voice. i will cold shoulder you so freaky youll run in the morning. you wont get me to talk. ever. all night youll be asking yourself if your safe with a silent freak. as you walk away ill say in a calm voice,"the reason i didnt speak with you is because you had your tent set up in the shelter. " and then ill be nice after that if they wanna chat. the end."
L. Wolf "I gotta agree. A tent should never be set up in a shelter. Ever."
I recall several rainy nights, getting to a shelter, finding no one inside but copious numbers of FREAKIN' SKEETERS who 1. had taken refuge from the rain, and 2. were anticipating a nightlong feast. I had no problem setting up my tent in those shelters to 1. keep it dry and 2. disappoint the hungry horde...
I will always carry my tarp, regardless of the time of year. I have learned that, if I am going to "expect" anything on the AT, I will be sorely disappointed...I'd rather be prepared. What if its so crappy I don't make it to the shelter, regardless of whether or not its expected to be a short hike.
I'm going on my first winter hike and I'm wondering if I need to bring a tent. I don't anticipate having any trouble getting to the shelters each night
Last January I had to retreat from a planned Great Barrington--Greylock hike exactly because I didn't carry a tent or tarp tent. I started off in a waning blizzard, snowshoeing to my first shelter, Wilson S. The night in the shelter was cold (0dF), but I was prepared.
But when I projected my progress toward Upper Goose Pond Cabin (porch) 12 mi, based on my pace to date, it was clear I wouldn't make it even well after nightfall. So I had to turn around. MORAL: shelter to shelter hiking is possible along the AT in winter, but you can't depend on it. Remember also, under snow conditions you may spend considerable time route-finding.
Walt
vipahman
11-18-2006, 20:55
Tent is a must carry for safety reasons. I slept in a shelter during last winter's blizzard inspite of having my tent handy. Overnight temps dipped into single digits. The wind was blowing like crazy. But I was as toasty as I could be thanks to my Marmot 0-degree Lithium. When I got up in the morning, the lower half of my bag was encrusted in ice. I had to dry it off in the shelter before I packed it in.
Let's all applaud Baltimore Jack!
Weary
Yay! :clap
Baltimore Jack for President! :D
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-19-2006, 08:32
Baltimore Jack for President! :DWe have a Democratic congress - I wouldn't do that to Jack....