Back Surgery-have you had it?

[oldfivetango]

I want to know who has had back surgery and what
your experience has been with it.I am at the point
that I am going to have to do something about my
own health issues before I can get serious about the
trail.After having an allergic reaction to generic Relafen
I did find a another NSAID (mobic) that gave me some
relief but my understanding is that they all can cause
strokes and heart attacks-not a good idea in my book.
Also,tried the steroidal injection into the back.Nixed that
idea as it lasted about a month and since it is a steroid
I have heard that it can soften the bones which is not
a good idea in light of an impending fusion procedure later.
Any ideas?Any horror stories?(I had a relative whose husband
bled to death IN THE HOSPITAL after back surgury) Any good
news stories? Thanks.(Meanwhile I am all dressed up but just cant go)
Oldfivetango

[Appalachian Tater]

If you have questions about limits on activity or possible adverse outcomes from your surgery, address them with your surgeon. Or have you not had surgery but need it? Even routine surgery such as a laprascopic gall bladder removal or an office procedure such as a cyst removal can have complications that lead to death, although they are rare. All surgery is a serious matter. That is why your surgeon must obtain informed consent and explain possible adverse effects and alternatives to the planned surgical treatment.

Steroids certainly have serious side effects but most of them come with usage over time, not from one injection. Long-term steroid use can indeed "soften" your bones and could cause problems with spinal surgery. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prednisone has some info about side effects of prednisone. Talk to your pharmacist about your meds including various NSAIDs and which ones you might benefit from. People tend not to use their pharmacists as a resource as much as they could.

I had a two-level cervical spinal fusion with with plate, screws, and autologous bone graft by the only surgeon I knew whom I trusted with the procedure. Aside from some muscle spasms in the first couple of months post-op and somewhat limited range of motion permanently, no problems here. No problems with the neck on the thru-hike. Wish I could say the same for the knees.

[4eyedbuzzard]

I've injured/reinjured my L4-L5 disc twice over the last 4 years. Luckily I responded well to LESI's (Lumbar Epidural Steroid Injections), Motrin 800's, and much physical therapy both times. The first injury in 2003 left me paralyzed in my left leg for almost two months. The most recent re-injury this October, from which I am still recovering, resulted in only the severe pain part, but still made walking more than 10 steps quite impossible even with "Dr. House" size vicodin dosages. I made a pretty full recovery from the first injury with 3 LESI's about 6 weeks apart, this time I only had one (so far) but still have a bit of mild referred sciatic pain on bad days. My Orthopaedist(who is Board Certified and has a really good rep as a surgeon) and I both consider surgery as a last resort and will exhaust other treatment options first. My back will never be 100%. An 80 to 90% non-surgical recovery represents a good "quality of life" compromise to me. I can still backpack, golf, play basketball, etc, but I've given up skiing big moguls, try to avoid impacts from jumping, and have become very aware of proper lifting techniques. My re-injury was from a kind of freak impact occurance at work. I am worried that the next time I'll probably wind up requiring surgery but I'll cross that bridge when it comes.

I know many people who have had various surgeries(they're all a bit different) with great results. And I've heard the horror stories as well. Most of the malpractice settlements come with a gag order/agreement. The best cutters in the world have "oops'es" - you just don't hear about them.

Best of luck with whatever traetment path you pursue. Back injuries suck.:sun

[hammock engineer]

I had ruptured my L4/L5 disc and herinated one in my S region. I had surgery on the L4/L5 one. I was told that they only removed about an once or so of material. I did not have the disc fusion surgery that you are talking of.

On mine something to consider is that I had my surgery when I was 21. I think I was the youngest person in the ortho ward by around 30 years. That had something to do with my recovery time.

If you have the surgery, give yourself a lot of time to recover. It took me 8-12 to feel normal-ish again. I was able to start running 4-6 months later. Two things I think really really helped me was physical theropy and walking. I had a family member that made it a point to stop by and make me walk outside every day a week after my surgery. After that I made it a point to do as much walking as my body felt comfortable. Just make sure you do not over do it.

You will experience setbacks. I had at least one or so a year for a few years where I had to spend a couple weeks laying down and recovering. This usually happened when I over did things.

In the end take things slow and listen to your body. When you start hiking again, ligthen your load and get a comfortable way to sleep. To me it's hammocks, to you it might be an extra pad.

Feel free to PM me if you need any help or have any questions on this.

[neighbor dave]

:-? last may 22nd i ruptured a disk in my back. got an m.r.i. to confirm it after still working(as a house framer) for 2 months after it happened. i was in some serious pain. i stopped working, bought an inversion table,hung upside down on it,drank lots of water and dodged the doc altogether! now i feel fine like nothing ever happened.:banana good luck:sun

[hammock engineer]

:-? last may 22nd i ruptured a disk in my back. got an m.r.i. to confirm it after still working(as a house framer) for 2 months after it happened. i was in some serious pain. i stopped working, bought an inversion table,hung upside down on it,drank lots of water and dodged the doc altogether! now i feel fine like nothing ever happened.:banana good luck:sun

I am a little confused. You had a piece of a disc break off, confirmed by MRI, then did not need surgery to remove it? Isn't the piece still in there?

I had a piece break off, confirmed by MRI, and had to have surgery to remove it. It was pushing into either my spinal cord or a nerve coming off of it. Surgery was my only option.

Don't take this the wrong way. I am just curious to how this is and how it is working out for you.

[orangebug]

It depends on your particular symptoms and pathology, including findings on your MRI and other exams. You may benefit from second opinion. You also need to understand the chronic recurrent nature of disc disease - at least until you understand the need to give up your foolish insistence on a bipedal existence.

I had a microsurgical technique to remove a fragment of disc from L5-S1. I had immediate pain relief and improvement in function - wound pain was the only issue. Exercise, weight loss and better lifting behaviors have helped, but I have had recurrent episodes. The bulk of patients I see in my practice are far less impressed from their experience with back procedures.

[neighbor dave]

I am a little confused. You had a piece of a disc break off, confirmed by MRI, then did not need surgery to remove it? Isn't the piece still in there?

I had a piece break off, confirmed by MRI, and had to have surgery to remove it. It was pushing into either my spinal cord or a nerve coming off of it. Surgery was my only option.

Don't take this the wrong way. I am just curious to how this is and how it is working out for you.
:-? the disc was pushing out into the sciatic nerve. it hurt like no tomorrow. when it first happened i was in pain 24-7. it took me 1 hour to walk 1/10th of a mile. at work they used to look at me and say... geez, you look like you're in alot of pain. i was!
the m.r.i. also showed that at some time in the past i had actually chipped one of my vertibrae.
i used the inversion table,drank lots of water, walked and hiked as much as i could tolerate due to the excruciating pain.
never took any prescription drugs. as of now i feel no pain,am back to work,living a normal life as if it never happened.
when i was in pain,i used to look at other people walking around and wished i was like them. man,i hope i never have to go thru that again! yuk!

[Nameless]

I've had two back surgeries because of my scoliosis. During the first surgery I had my T1-12 fused and had the instrumentation removed during the second surgery. I carry a much lighter load on the trail, about ten pounds before food and water. Thats partly because I only weigh 100 pounds and dont want to carry too large of a percentage of my weight, and partly because I take really good care of my back.
Listen to your doctor before trying to hike after back surgery. If you get a good doctor that you are comfortable with (I interveiwed three, two of them great, before I chose my doctor) it should be no problem discussing things like when you will be able to hike again, and when you will be able to hike long distance again. I know that my doctor is looking forward to pictures of my thru, and possibly using my story as an insiration to people that are worried about their surgeris. Just because you have had major back surgery doesnt mean that you have to give up the things that you love.

Pink

[oldfivetango]

It depends on your particular symptoms and pathology, including findings on your MRI and other exams. You may benefit from second opinion. You also need to understand the chronic recurrent nature of disc disease - at least until you understand the need to give up your foolish insistence on a bipedal existence.

I had a microsurgical technique to remove a fragment of disc from L5-S1. I had immediate pain relief and improvement in function - wound pain was the only issue. Exercise, weight loss and better lifting behaviors have helped, but I have had recurrent episodes. The bulk of patients I see in my practice are far less impressed from their experience with back procedures.

Thanks to everyone for their response and comments.
Dr Orangebud,here's the prognosis:my local surgeon had
a look at my MRI and said degerative disc at L4/L5 but
since I do not have pain shooting down a leg he recommended
therapy and the steroidal injections.Tried an injection,it lasted for
about a month and I am afraid that the steroids will make the bones
soft if I keep that up.Took some nabumatone and had one HELLUVA
allergic reaction(think Will Smith in that movie he made "Hitch").
I have therapied and exercised my unowhatoff and still I am dealing
with pain everyday;the only question being "how much today"?Some
days not too awful if I do not do anything but say something like
"go change that flat tire" and all hell breaks loose.Had pretty good results
with Mobic but it is one of those "stroke and heart attack drugs" so I
am in a quandry as to what to do.I would like to be able to go hiking
or do some physical work without the threat of another back spasm.
Oh yeah,one more thing,I've been sleeping in a recliner for two years
come February 16th.I take a portable hammock on the those rare occasions
like out of town weddings/funerals when I absolutely must be in attendance.And I have been living like this actually since it started in
1994.I have heard about microsurgery but don't know what it is.I think
I don't want to have a fullblown fusion because of some of the horror
stories I have heard and it is my understanding that the recuperation is
pretty tough.What would you suggest?
Thanks,
Oldfivetango

[COOPDOG]

have had two back surgeries. L-5/S-1, and C-7/C-6. the neck one incapacitated me more than the lower back. Have tried the shots, and therapy...neither worked. That's why I had the surgeries. Got tired of the pain and the numbness and the not being able to walk after sitting for more than 15 minutes. Everyone get ready to freak...it was military doctors!!! I didn't care. Am I 100%...no but I never will be after surgery. I can walk, run, and before I retired, I was still able to run pt and pass the physical fitness test...so Yeah; it was worth it.

It was called a diskectomy (sp?) They go in and scrape/carve the buldging/ruptured part of the disk off the nerve it is impacting. I was in pain with the lower back for about 2 weeks. The neck pain lasted for months...I was in a recliner during that time also.

I recommend the surgery (disclaimer) but it is your choice! you either learn to live with the pain and limited mobility or you take measures to correct it. I had it corrected.

Good luck with your research of the matter and if you plan of the surgery, I hope and pray that all goes well. Good Luck.

[orangebug]

I am not making a recommendation as I have no real idea of your pathology and symptoms or exam.

In my case, I had muscle loss, weakness, pain and poor response to pain meds. I was aware that conservative treatment works most often, including watchful waiting over at least 6 weeks. I also know the significant amount of placebo effect in any pain treatment. I found that without pain meds (opiates) I was too distracted by pain to examine my patients. I found with opiates, I was too drunk.

MRI showed previous and current disc material in the space shared by spinal nerve roots. The MRI agreed with my exam, something that improves prognosis but which is not always the case.

I had a microlaminectomy. Put to sleep, stretched over a jig, a small incision opened over the spine, operating instruments placed in the incision and fixed to the jig and me, the surgeon sat down at the operating microscope and directed the surgery across the room by remote contr.ol, awake 45-60 minutes later. I had a neurosurgeon at a tertiary care center (Crawford Long/part of Emory)

I would recommend adequate attempts to treat pain, understanding that stroke/MI risks of NSAIDs are related to large populations with very longterm treatment. I'd recommend second opinion. I do not recommend chronic pain if avoidable.

[Appalachian Tater]

I've had two back surgeries because of my scoliosis. During the first surgery I had my T1-12 fused and had the instrumentation removed during the second surgery.

Pink

Pink, do you care to explain why they removed the hardware? Doesn't happen often, so I'm curious. Was it because of the sheer quantity of metal in your back from the scoliosis repair? Was it your choice?

[napster]

I want to know who has had back surgery and what
your experience has been with it.I am at the point
that I am going to have to do something about my
own health issues before I can get serious about the
trail.After having an allergic reaction to generic Relafen
I did find a another NSAID (mobic) that gave me some
relief but my understanding is that they all can cause
strokes and heart attacks-not a good idea in my book.
Also,tried the steroidal injection into the back.Nixed that
idea as it lasted about a month and since it is a steroid
I have heard that it can soften the bones which is not
a good idea in light of an impending fusion procedure later.
Any ideas?Any horror stories?(I had a relative whose husband
bled to death IN THE HOSPITAL after back surgury) Any good
news stories? Thanks.(Meanwhile I am all dressed up but just cant go)
Oldfivetango

OFT, I had back surgery and injections(L5-S1) region plus degen illness also.I had short term relief from injections but imho its not worth the breakdown to my disc that them big guage needle cause repetive over time.
I recently found a oral med that gave me back all my life that the addictive pain meds stole from me and my family. This med is good for withdrawals,depression ,anxiety,more pill cravings and most important pain mangement.It is an opiate but only a partial antagonist there fore a ceiling effect to not want ,desire or crave more as I did.I think clearly as I did before ever taking pain meds. This might not be for you OFT but to anyone who has ever suffered from pain and need pain mangement this med rocks,here is the link for anyone interested.Good luck! www.naabt.org (http://www.naabt.org)
then go to the glossary and scroll down look up Buprenorphine

[Blissful]

My hubby has a ruptured disk, confimred with MRI - and had two injections for it (first came back in a month, so he needed a second). Has done well so far and that was last year.

[RAT]

I was in a major car wreck in `85 and a yr later started having serious back pain. Tried chiropractic for a few yrs but as I was still working public jobs it just got worse. Finally about 10 yrs ago the pain became unbearable and the flare ups where I would be down for days at a time became more frequent so I sought out medical dr`s. After a few specialists and many MRI`s and a diagnosis of degenerative disc disease in L5 and the two above it with arthritis (spurs etc) I was sent to a pain clinic where an oriental guy gave me a years worth of steroidal injections (every two weeks), into the spine and hip joint area guided by exray, along with pinpoint injections every two weeks, causing some undesirable side affects from all those steroids altho after one yr my insurance cancelled and I have had nothing since and it has been about a yr and a half and I am in a little bit better shape but I still cannot do anything very physical, no stooping or bending over of any sort, no lifting, etc., and when I do I suffer alot for a few days and if I make the wrong move and it doesnt take much I can be down for days unable to move. The one disc is herniated into the spine and the discs are all squished and the vertabraes are touching the nerves takes a few hrs to be able to straighten up and move every morning complete with severe pain all of which I can get no meds for (other than motrin 800`s three times a day) nor can I get surgery for since I dont have medical insurance of any kind. Tenncare is "Latin for No insurance". They cancelled me anyway when they went bankrupt. SO I have to suffer thru the pain but if I was offered surgery of any sort regardless of the risks I would jump at the chance as anything is better than this pain and suffering and if it didnt work then I would have an excuse anyways ! I dont see how it could be any worse. I tend to do better when I am hiking long as I am careful. Doing work trips to my section are getting harder and harder :( Just my back story.


RAT

[hammock engineer]

I know I didn't start this thread, but thanks everyone for sharing your back stories. I would not wish what I have and go through on anyone (and from reading this thread some of you are even worse) but it is comforting that there are other people going through similar things that are willing to share their stories.

On a side note I think my back has been reading this thread and felt like I haven't been paying any attention to it. We are currently not on speaking terms. Hopefully it improves and I can make it for the Mt Rogers trip this weekend that I have been planning for a couple months.

[SalParadise]

was born with half a lumbar vertibrae (called a hemivertibrae) and had it removed, then a fusion, then two rods and four pins in its place, all done on my 14th birthday (happy birthday!). yeah, took me about a year to get the muscles back in my right leg.

i'll have infrequent back pain now, so was very worried about it on my hike. I took a back brace and wore it every day. fortunately my back was fine the whole way, I guess because most pack weight is on the hips.

carrying a light load on my second AT attempt i was fortunately able not to wear the brace, because i would sweat like crazy with that thing.

unfortunately my past back surgery affects the step of my right foot, so it was rare that my right foot wasn't in pain during the hike, but that's the breaks, and really pretty minor compared to other people on this thread alone.

[oldfivetango]

Hey Rat,
Sorry to hear you are in apparently worse shape than I am.
If I were in your shoes I would consider talking to a surgeon
for a "cut-rate" price for cash and then try to either get a loan
or set up a savings account for it.I think the reason my surgeon
would not cut on me until there is pain going down a leg is because
the insurance company will not pay for it otherwise.Since I am not
a liar I plan to go seek another opinion as the last 2 years have been
more than a little unpleasant.
SalParadise,yeah-I hear what you are saying about how hot
those back braces are-dare we call it a corset?That's what it
is btw! and it's hotter than my old SVEA 123!:D I have switched over
to what I call my "busboy" brace that I got from Ace Hardware.
Cut the straps off as I didn't need them and it gets in the way of
the pack straps.Funny how back pain works-the back pack sorta
stretches me out some and makes it feel pretty good.I just can't
do much in the way of activities that require lifting,twisting,turning,
or in other words,anything that remotely resembles doing light tasks
aka "work".Driving any distance is out of the question as well.Anyway,
2007 New Year's Resolution is to do something about it!

[RAT]

Thanks for the advice oldfivetango. Good luck to you as well. No one can relate with us until they feel the pain and the debilitation for them selves. I have had alot of instances where I could not move. Once in a grocery store when getting a 5lb bag of sugar from the shelf, ended up in the floor took forever to get up and get myself home, had to have help, another time getting out of the car at KFC, bam, one wrong twist and more pain that can be described, down in the restaurant floor unable to move. I have spent countless days on my back waiting for the pain to subside so I could move once again. It is not as frequesnt now as far as flare ups go since I gave up trying to do anything that resembles "work" but some mornings I just cant get straightened up or move for awhile and sitting or riding very far is a no no but yet we have things that have to be done so we "SUFFAH" lol, keep on keepin` on and best of luck to ya and anyone else who knows this pain.

RAT

[oldfivetango]

Hey Rat,
One thing that has helped me considerably is
a "zero gravity" recliner by Lafuma.Check it out.Also,
sleeping in a regular recliner chair at night takes alot
of the pressure off which is why when I am in the great
outdoors it is HAMMOCK HANGING TIME.I travel with one
that has a portable frame on the road ya know.
Good luck.
Oldfivetango

[hammock engineer]

Hey Rat,
One thing that has helped me considerably is
a "zero gravity" recliner by Lafuma.Check it out.Also,
sleeping in a regular recliner chair at night takes alot
of the pressure off which is why when I am in the great
outdoors it is HAMMOCK HANGING TIME.I travel with one
that has a portable frame on the road ya know.
Good luck.
Oldfivetango

Can you link your portable hammock stand? I found a couple good ones, but they are 15' long. I am going to get one soon so I can hang indoors.

[oldfivetango]

Can you link your portable hammock stand? I found a couple good ones, but they are 15' long. I am going to get one soon so I can hang indoors.
Sorry,can't link but I got it from an outfit called AJ Prindle.
It's blue and folds up into a backpack which makes it easy
to set up in the room.I guess it is about 8 feet long overall and
has its own stand/Pops right up.
OFT

[neighbor dave]

this contraption works for my situation.
http://www.teeterhangups.com/home.html

good luck!!!:)

[RAT]

Thanks for that advice oldfivetango, I definitely feel better in a reclined position than lying flat in a bed but something about a hammock makes my back hurt just to think about it ! I need to try someones out first tho before I can pass that judgement ! That inversion table looks awesome neighbor dave, only wish I had that kind of money for one. Being upside down would take the pressure off my verts,discs, nerves etc, wow. Thanks for that link,

RAT

[neighbor dave]

Thanks for that advice oldfivetango, I definitely feel better in a reclined position than lying flat in a bed but something about a hammock makes my back hurt just to think about it ! I need to try someones out first tho before I can pass that judgement ! That inversion table looks awesome neighbor dave, only wish I had that kind of money for one. Being upside down would take the pressure off my verts,discs, nerves etc, wow. Thanks for that link,

RAT
:-? i've never felt so good as when i hang upside down. what a releif. they say that if standing is 100%compression, laying down will only get you to 70% decompression.
the table was my last resort before i had to go out and buy health insurance and i figured if it worked it was a whole lot cheaper and i could dodge the knife. they say that something like 80% of back operations don't work and the same percentage of just leaving your back alone does work.
here's another link;:sun
http://www.marylandspineanddisccenter.com/HOME.htm

and another thread on this subject;
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14922

[RAT]

We have a dr in my city that now has and offers this DRX9000 decompression treatment. Thought I would wait to see if it was successful or not before i consider it. Thanks for that link.

RAT