View Full Version : Vegetarian/Vegan hiking
I'd like to start a thread for veggies to discuss cruelty free hiking. This thread should not be for arguements. Authentic questions are welcome. I've been Vegan for two years after meeting a vegan thru hiker (I was a vegetarian for seven years before. I also work at REI so I have great gear research tools. Have any of you Veggies tried the Garmont Vegans? I like them very much:cool:
Lone Wolf
01-24-2007, 13:31
This message has been edited due to deviation from stated intent of this topic. See removed postings HERE #15 (http://www.hikenow.com/edits.html#a15)
I think a lot of folks hike veggie styley since they don't want to carry a stove or whatever. Does snickers and peanuts 24/7 count?
This message has been edited due to deviation from stated intent of this topic. See removed postings HERE #16 (http://www.hikenow.com/edits.html#a16)
I'd like to start a thread for veggies to discuss cruelty free hiking [my bold]. This thread should not be for arguements.
If you don't want arguments or wisecracks, you are off to a bad start with a provocative statement like you've made. I have no interest in arguing with you, just pointing out that you're inviting something other than what I expect you're seeking with your word choice.
It's good you posted in the straight forward forum, you will likely get some help from moderators, but they would probably rather be spending their time on other things.
Editors Note: VERY TRUE!!!
Bloodroot
01-24-2007, 13:50
This message has been edited due to deviation from stated intent of this topic. See removed postings HERE #17 (http://www.hikenow.com/edits.html#a17)
Lone Wolf
01-24-2007, 13:55
I guess it means no morning coffee L. Wolf, afterall those beans are packed down the mountainside on llamas and donkeys, which could constitute animal exploitation...
plus in the cultivation of many veggies, thousands of small animals are killed and maimed every year.
Lone Wolf
01-24-2007, 13:56
I'd like to start a thread for veggies to discuss cruelty free hiking. This thread should not be for arguements. Authentic questions are welcome. I've been Vegan for two years after meeting a vegan thru hiker (I was a vegetarian for seven years before. I also work at REI so I have great gear research tools. Have any of you Veggies tried the Garmont Vegans? I like them very much:cool:
www.petakillsanimals.com/
can anyone recommend any out-of-the-ordinary sources of protein, besides nuts and cheese and protein bars? i've come across vegetarian beef jerky strips, which don't need refrigeration. i'd appreciate your ideas:)
:-? If everyone posting is a vegetarian, then all posts may be considered to be on topic thus far.
Now I'm going away, I promise, since I'm not interested in this discussion.:rolleyes:
Tipi Walter
01-24-2007, 14:09
I can't speak to cruelty-free hiking since all me and my friends know about is humping huge loads which can only be called cruelty-abundant hiking:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=14665&catid=member&imageuser=7874
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=14577&catid=member&imageuser=7874
i've come across vegetarian beef jerky strips, which don't need refrigeration.
You've come across what?:confused:
Lone Wolf
01-24-2007, 14:15
You've come across what?:confused:
veggies like to eat sht that looks like meat
Tipi Walter
01-24-2007, 14:16
Okay, I got that out of my system, now back to the thread.
All my living out and backpacking has been as a vegetarian, going on 34 years now and loving it. I just don't think the cruelty free hiking part can be realistically addressed on a backpacking forum. Now, if you want to share how it is to be a vegetarian on the trail or what to eat, that's a different thing. I just don't think in these current times that there is anything that is cruelty free.
4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2007, 14:18
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can anyone recommend any out-of-the-ordinary sources of protein, besides nuts and cheese and protein bars?:)
Yes, plants.
Gray Blazer
01-24-2007, 14:20
i've come across vegetarian beef jerky strips, which don't need refrigeration. i'd appreciate your ideas:)
If veggies don't like meat, why do they continue to try to make the veggies look and taste like meat? Talk about cruelty, who is looking out for all those little vegetables that don't want to be eaten? They don't have a voice! Who is standing up for them?
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Tipi Walter
01-24-2007, 14:23
can anyone recommend any out-of-the-ordinary sources of protein, besides nuts and cheese and protein bars? i've come across vegetarian beef jerky strips, which don't need refrigeration. i'd appreciate your ideas:)
Hey Webs, check out this:
http://www.mealpack.com
I just made an order for 100 pemmican bars and they go down in price with volume, etc.
Variety is the name of the game in backpacking, ya gotta continually search for new combos and different ideas. We live in America where the choices are near endless. Check out Mary Jane's Farm and Frontier Herbs.
Unfortuneately no one can ever be truly vegan, but we can do the best we can. As for protein, Quinoa is the perfect grain. Vegetable protein powders are also great, they are made with complete proteins and can be got online or at places like Whole Foods. I think that variety is the biggest problem on the trail, not to big a deal if you eat dairy, but vegans will need a lot of maildrops.
I think the soy-based "jerky strips" can be tasty, they are basically dried up seitan and flavored with hickory or soy sauce. They don't really "replace" meat, but they are a good chewy snack, satisfying the crave for salt. Ungodly expensive though, it might be interesting to find a way to make them.
Tipi Walter
01-24-2007, 14:48
Unfortuneately no one can ever be truly vegan, but we can do the best we can. As for protein, Quinoa is the perfect grain. Vegetable protein powders are also great, they are made with complete proteins and can be got online or at places like Whole Foods. I think that variety is the biggest problem on the trail, not to big a deal if you eat dairy, but vegans will need a lot of maildrops.
I think the soy-based "jerky strips" can be tasty, they are basically dried up seitan and flavored with hickory or soy sauce. They don't really "replace" meat, but they are a good chewy snack, satisfying the crave for salt. Ungodly expensive though, it might be interesting to find a way to make them.
And don't forget chickweed, violet greens, ramps, mustard greens, lambs quarters, and all the rest of the wild edibles. It's amazing what food is available on the trail. And who can forget the humble Oat? It is nearly a complete food in itself and works great with added wild edibles and can be found nearly anywhere. All Hail therefore the Oat and the Oatmeal and the Eaters of Oat.
Tipi Walter
01-24-2007, 14:50
If you're not hungry for Oats, you're just not hungry.
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As for protein, Quinoa is the perfect grain.
Not a grain technically, but nutritious, absolutely!
vegans will need a lot of maildrops.
Especially those who are especially picky about what they eat.
I think the soy-based "jerky strips" can be tasty, they are basically dried up seitan and flavored with hickory or soy sauce. They don't really "replace" meat, but they are a good chewy snack, satisfying the crave for salt [bold mine]. Ungodly expensive though, it might be interesting to find a way to make them.
A big ol' salt lick would probably be more cost effective.
If you're not hungry for Oats, you're just not hungry.
Are you repeating that line or did you just make it up? If you just made it up, you should edit quick and delete it. You might be able to sell that one to Quaker or someone.;)
Well Jessebrent, yes I am indicating that eating meat is cruel. It is demonstrably unnecessary for the health and well being of the human body, and therefore eaten purely for pleasure. "Cruelty free" does indeed sound antogonizing and if there is a way to edit this I would like too, as I see it is not in the spirit of my own thread. And indeed, it is impossible to live without taking advantage of others on a constant basis, however, we can try to avoid it when possible and to the degree we are willing. I will no sooner beat up an old lady for her purse than kill a cow for the pleasure of consuming its flesh. I may try to start a fresh thread for the sake of us hikers who would like to discuss our particular issues in peace.
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Lone Wolf
01-24-2007, 15:17
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Tipi Walter
01-24-2007, 15:21
Are you repeating that line or did you just make it up? If you just made it up, you should edit quick and delete it. You might be able to sell that one to Quaker or someone.;)
Well, I've given the puny oat alot of thought thru years of being tentbound in a variety of storms. Most backpackers end up hating the humble oat and for good reason, and yet when we are hungry on the trail and could eat a pizza or ice cream or a hamburger BUT NOT the oat, are we then really hungry? So, if I don't want oats it means I'm basically not hungry.
In the process of all of this I realized that the oat is the perfect backpacking food:
1 It can be purchased everywhere(a big plus)
2 It cooks quickly and mixes with wild edibles, cheese/cream cheese, nuts, peanut butter, and sweeteners like maple syrup and honey(not all together please)
3 It can be eaten uncooked by soaking in water for a short time(and it's not bad, especially with some raisins)
4 Alot of it goes a long way(and it's light)
5 It's cheap
I'm probably forgetting a few more.
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And don't forget chickweed, violet greens, ramps, mustard greens, lambs quarters, and all the rest of the wild edibles. It's amazing what food is available on the trail. And who can forget the humble Oat? It is nearly a complete food in itself and works great with added wild edibles and can be found nearly anywhere. All Hail therefore the Oat and the Oatmeal and the Eaters of Oat.
If a vegan thinks they can depend on wild edibles then what about LNT? What about the animals that depend on the wild foods out there? I'm not saying I've never plucked some wild blueberries as has everyone else but I wouldn't depend on wild foods unless a matter of survival.
Some of the comments here had me laughing so hard I was aching.
The Old Fhart
01-24-2007, 15:30
Canute-"I will no sooner beat up an old lady for her purse than kill a cow for the pleasure of consuming its flesh."You must be trolling because no sane person would continually, and intentionally, try to paint the majority of the world the way you do. You are treating being a vegan as a religion and not as your personal choice. If you want to be a vegan, fine, allow others to make their own choices without the asinine remarks.
Personally I don't care for vegans, they taste stringy.:D
The Old Fhart
01-24-2007, 15:36
Namaste-"What about the animals that depend on the wild foods out there?"My feeling is that if my eating a few berries along the trail is going to push some animal over the edge, they deserved to go!;)
Not a grain technically, but nutritious, absolutely!
Especially those who are especially picky about what they eat.
A big ol' salt lick would probably be more cost effective. Ok, so it's a seed and not really a grain. I found that oatmeal and a good multiviatamin make the perfect breakfast. :sun
Tipi Walter
01-24-2007, 15:42
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terrapin_too
01-24-2007, 15:52
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I think a lot of folks hike veggie styley since they don't want to carry a stove or whatever. Does snickers and peanuts 24/7 count?
I did a little too much of this type of eating on my long hikes. I don't like the idea of going without a stove just to lighten up the pack. I've also given up on instant noodles, angel hair and small macaronis cook in no time and can be mixed with anything for a good meal.
generoll
01-24-2007, 16:02
good website, Tipi W. Thanks for the heads up.
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I don't like the idea of going without a stove just to lighten up the pack. I've also given up on instant noodles, angel hair and small macaronis cook in no time and can be mixed with anything for a good meal.
As for fast, so as to not use much fuel and thus contribute to your pack's weight, you can't do much better than the aforementioned humble oat or whole grain couscous. In both cases, you consume the water which doesn't evaporate, unlike with pasta, which in many cases involves pouring off most of it.
As for fast, so as to not use much fuel and thus contribute to your pack's weight, you can't do much better than the aforementioned humble oat or whole grain couscous. In both cases, you consume the water which doesn't evaporate, unlike with pasta, which in many cases involves pouring off most of it.
I agree, some vegetable bouillon, get the pot simmering, put in the couscous, and turn your stove off, cover the pot. Saves a lot of fuel. Add some TVP and dry veggetables.
I agree, some vegetable bouillon, get the pot simmering, put in the couscous, and turn your stove off, cover the pot. Saves a lot of fuel. Add some TVP and dry veggetables.
Now you're cookin'.;)
4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2007, 16:50
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4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2007, 17:40
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Skidsteer
01-24-2007, 19:53
...As for protein, Quinoa is the perfect grain. Vegetable protein powders are also great, they are made with complete proteins and can be got online or at places like Whole Foods.
Huh?
There's a complete vegetable protein?
Lone Wolf
01-24-2007, 19:56
I'd like to start a thread for veggies to discuss cruelty free hiking. This thread should not be for arguements. Authentic questions are welcome. I've been Vegan for two years after meeting a vegan thru hiker (I was a vegetarian for seven years before. I also work at REI so I have great gear research tools. Have any of you Veggies tried the Garmont Vegans? I like them very much:cool:
please explain cruelty free hiking.
generoll
01-24-2007, 20:26
I believe that a combination of beans and rice make a complete protein, Skids. I'm not a nutritionist, but that's what I've always been lead to believe. I doubt anyone here has the credentials to speak authoritatively, but that certainly never stops any of us from speaking loudly. Frequently wrong, but never in doubt. That should be the byword for this and most foums on the internet.
4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2007, 21:50
Well Jessebrent, yes I am indicating that eating meat is cruel.
Cruel is a "value judgement", aka an OPINION. Your statement has no basis in fact. Eating meat does not constitute animal cruelty as recognized by law.
It is demonstrably unnecessary for the health and well being of the human body, and therefore eaten purely for pleasure.
Again, opinion. Again, ignoring the facts. Your opinion is not shared by the scientific or medical community at large, including the USDA and AMA who suggest that small portions of lean meats are desireable in human diets.
Bloodroot
01-24-2007, 22:03
It is demonstrably unnecessary for the health and well being of the human body, and therefore eaten purely for pleasure.
This is ridiculous. We as humans are capable of consuming and do consume both animal protein and vegetation. This alone classifies us as an omnivorous species, or a generalized feeder. Our intelligence allows us to make that choice.
Bloodroot
01-24-2007, 22:06
Here's a good quote to feast on......
""I find myself driven by my love of animals to favour eating them. Most of the animals which graze in
our fields are there because we eat them. Sheep and beef cattle are, in the conditions which prevail
in English pastures, well-fed, comfortable and protected, cared for when disease afflicts them, and,
after a quiet life among their natural companions, despatched in ways which human beings, if they
are rational, must surely envy. There is nothing immoral in this. On the contrary, it is one of the most
vivid triumphs of comfort over suffering in the entire animal world. It seems to me, therefore, that it is
not just permissible, but positively right, to eat these animals whose comforts depend up on our doing
so.""
VictoriaM
01-24-2007, 22:17
The real cruelty is factory farming. I love animals, but I eat meat because I feel sick and tired if I don't. I try my best, though, to buy from local farmers. I help the local economy this way, and I know how the animal I am eating was treated in life, and how it was dispatched.
As far as vegetarian/vegan hiking, I think it's definitely possible. Substitute beans, nuts, powdered milk and eggs (if you eat those), and load up on fresh foods while in towns. I think hikers mostly eat vegetarian while on the trail, with the exception of some cans of tuna or chicken and jerky.
Now, organic hiking would be a problem. I'm in the process of going completely organic, but have had to give up for my hike. It's just too difficult and expensive.
There's a guy that hiked both the PCT and CDT eating only raw foods. If you can do it on those trails it should be easy enough on the AT
http://www.rawhike.com/
#1
I'd like to start a thread for veggies to discuss cruelty free hiking
#26
Well Jessebrent, yes I am indicating that eating meat is cruel.
This is a thread entitled "Vegetarian/Vegan hiking" in the "straight forward" forum.
Canute opened up, not with anything that had to do with diet and health, but with an inflamatory, politiicaly charged insult to me and most Americans.
In post #2 LW simply asked *** is cruelty free hiking, and his post was edited. I do not understand why it is off topic to ask the person who started this thread to explain a statement made in the first post of the thread. If LW's thread was off-topic, it seems to me that Canute's opening post was off-topic, on a thread he started.
He was the one who brought up the term "cruelty free hiking" and "eating meat is cruel". I think any responses to his post are right on topic.
Please tell me where I am wrong.
Blissful
01-24-2007, 22:30
I agree, some vegetable bouillon, get the pot simmering, put in the couscous, and turn your stove off, cover the pot. Saves a lot of fuel. Add some TVP and dry veggetables.
We discovered couscous comes in different flavors at our country food stores here, what a fantastic food! Tried it out on a day hike and I loved it. Now have to convince my son. :) Tonight I made my own granola for the first time (used the food recipe book that ATC sells - a great publication, BTW). Yummy. For me there's a time for meat and a time for the other.
Oh, and thanks for the TVP and veggies to add in the couscous. Good idea. We've been drying a ton of that (carrots, green beans, peas) and I have a bag of TVP I wasn't sure how to use it.
Canute, since your original post specifically mentions footware, I'll address that. A favorite website of mine is veganessentials.com. They've done all the legwork to research products that are free of animal products (sometimes tough for the average consumer to do) and they sell a variety of footware -- I believe they carry the Garmont Vegan Hikers you mentioned. My feet are a bit odd so I like New Balance and Dunham because you can get them in a wide variety of widths and some of their shoes have no leather. The Dunhams I hike in now are all synthetic but I can't vouch for what's in the adhesives.
By the way, I also buy a vegan form of glucosamine (derived from corn instead of shellfish) through veganessentials.com.
We discovered couscous ... what a fantastic food! Tried it out on a day hike and I loved it. Now have to convince my son. :)
Oh, and thanks for the TVP and veggies to add in the couscous. Good idea. We've been drying a ton of that (carrots, green beans, peas) and I have a bag of TVP I wasn't sure how to use it.
Sounds like your preparations are well under way and you'll soon be ready for some seriously fun hiking!;)
dixicritter
01-24-2007, 22:59
#1
#26
This is a thread entitled "Vegetarian/Vegan hiking" in the "straight forward" forum.
Canute opened up, not with anything that had to do with diet and health, but with an inflamatory, politiicaly charged insult to me and most Americans.
In post #2 LW simply asked *** is cruelty free hiking, and his post was edited. I do not understand why it is off topic to ask the person who started this thread to explain a statement made in the first post of the thread. If LW's thread was off-topic, it seems to me that Canute's opening post was off-topic, on a thread he started.
He was the one who brought up the term "cruelty free hiking" and "eating meat is cruel". I think any responses to his post are right on topic.
Please tell me where I am wrong.
The opening post also requested no arguments, it was to tone of the post that was the problem. LW knows this as well since when he restated the question in a more civil tone it has been left alone.
Now, I would suggest that the arguing on this thread stop now, and it continue on topic from now on or posts will be deleted. I will not copy posts over like Jim does because frankly I don't have the time or energy to do so. My decisions are final.
Discovered this thread late and read all four pages at a go. It seems to me that the problem is this thread is in the straightforward section, and should be in the political section. It is not reasonable to accuse people of being cruel and not to have them respond.
There is little intent on anyone's part to discuss hiking in this thread, including the originator, just eat meat vs not eat meat, and that is hardly straightforward.
My 2 cents.
4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2007, 23:54
I think a lot of folks hike veggie styley since they don't want to carry a stove or whatever. Does snickers and peanuts 24/7 count?
Snickers are lacto-vegetarian but not vegan (MILK chocolat coating, milkfat, lactose in caramel and nougat)
I believe the intent of this thread at the outset was to cover the same ground as is now being negotiated peaceably in another thread not even in the straight forward forum. Seems to me the thread-starter was looking for an opportunity to share information with others that belong to the group named in the initial post.
The language used by the thread-starter has a shared meaning within the group to which he referred. There is a Wiki article linked in the other thread that explains the beliefs of this group in considerable depth. Incidently, I don't consider myself a member of this group although I share some of the same dietary preferences.
Frosty, I don't believe the thread-starter has any kind of legislative agenda, is trying to influence public policy or convert anyone, hence I don't see how the thread is political. Controversial, perhaps, but not political. Rather, it's about exchanging information with other hikers who have a shared belief system and lifestyle and how to remain true to those principles while on the trail.
jessebrent, if you want to take offense, then I suppose no one can stop you. The opening statement does have everything to do with health and diet. Americans for all the money we spend on health care should be the healthiest people in the world, yet we are not. It is becoming increasingly clear that diet is likely to be a factor.
Sometimes, I wonder why I bother to post as I now am about to. I think it's that I just don't have much stomach for the bickering. Perhaps the bickering will end as requested. If not, there is another place to discuss this subject matter already. Maybe those individuals still interested in discussing it should just jump ship and go there now. It may not be worth trying to fix what seems broken here.
Oh well, tomorrow is another day.
I have observed that cows prefer that we "eet mor chiken"
copythat
01-26-2007, 21:36
i'm with tipi walter: hiking is as cruel as it gets. ;)
i just did a wb search for vegan ... 74 hits. start there. then move over to food and cooking and start a Vegan thread between Unsweetened kool-aid and Whiskey. probably get a gentler response. and have more fun.
good luck. :)
*** added: and give poor dixi a break! ***
booney_1
02-18-2007, 10:21
dehydrated refried beans,powdered eggs,powdered milk, powdered hummus(use a little oil with h20 when rehydrating),nuts
Wish I remember the brand, but back in the day when I was a hardcore vegan, I had hiking boots made of hemp, and the soles were made of recycled pop bottles. They were nice boots, and I wore them for a couple years. I bought them in maybe 1995 or 1996 though. Would love to find another pair someday. The "leather" on them was made of vegetal sap.
I am not vegan nor vegetarian now, but for the most part I eat no meat. My husband is a confirmed flesh eater though. When he is not with us on the trail, my son and me rarely eat meat now. I don't find it hard at all to get what I need either. I have dried up enough beans for a lifetime, and combined with pasta or rice in dishes, we go to bed full :)
budforester
02-23-2007, 19:26
I bought a book in the early 80's, Simple Foods for the Pack, by Axil and Kinnemont [spellings]. They gave vegeterian recipes and some are still my favorites. They've published a 2nd edition, recently. The food is hearty and nutritious. Food weight and fuel demand make it more appropriate for weekenders and shorter hikes, but there may be potential to precook and dehydrate.
I bought a book in the early 80's, Simple Foods for the Pack, by Axil and Kinnemont [spellings]. They gave vegeterian recipes and some are still my favorites. They've published a 2nd edition, recently. The food is hearty and nutritious. Food weight and fuel demand make it more appropriate for weekenders and shorter hikes, but there may be potential to precook and dehydrate.
That is an excellent book, and yes, the meals can be changed for cooking faster with less fuel (such as using instant rice, precooked and dried at home pasta, etc). Most of the recipes in the orginal book are very good tasting!
Ive been vegan for about seven years now. I do not pick wild edibles on my hikes despite the abundance of natural land here in Canada and the relatively small number of people I still feel like I have a choice between being a preserving or pioneering. I choose preserving. I expect to have some difficulty on my thru hike of the AT this spring and my reason for this reply is to ask if any vegan thru hikers have suggestions Id appreciate them. I dont plan on doing many maildrops due to budget restrictions.
Alot of people are asking about protein. I believe it was the 98 surgeon general's report which said that the average individual (male or female) has a protein intake far above (100-200% but slightly lower for females) the daily recommendation. I think there are more important dietary concerns such as B12 to be conerned about on the trail.
But I dont know what the US FDA has managed to ban or how widely available it would be in the US regardless, but hemp seeds (oil,butter etc etc) have all your essential fatty acids. A few seeds mixed into morning oatmeal or even roasted and salted or a tablespoon of oil used to cook rice, over veggies etc is all you need.
I personally like stonewalls soy jerky, i got hooked on it as a good trail snack in OR and I found a website www.soybean.com (http://www.soybean.com) that has it in bulk. You can buy the small pieces or fines at a discount ($29.99) for 25 lbs, six flavours. I plan on dividing the 25 lbs up into 100 4 oz portions for my hike.
Spirulina also works wonders, although Im not positive about exact nutritional content so I won't say but you can supplement part of your daily food intake with spirulina tablets, take them only occasionally or Ive even heard stories related by individuals who have lived quite comfortably off just tablets for up to a month. Although this becomes quite expensive it does cut down on your pack weight quite a bit.
one of my favourite trail foods is buckwheat; as fast as couscous to prepare, more filling than oatmeal and has just as many variations in preperation as any other grain.
I also work in the hiking industry and I hear alot of people talking about Garmont Vegan boots on this thread. I just wanted to say Garmont (as well as other companies) make a wide variety of vegan footwear. Just get their catalogue and give them a call. I don't believe their consumer catalogue tells you whether its vegan friendly or not. Websites, I don't know. But many people might want to try something lighter than the vegan like a runner ( garmont nagevi is I Vegan backwards) or even a mid. I believe their Kiowa is also vegan but don't go on my word. Merrel and Montrail both have some models as well.
can anyone recommend any out-of-the-ordinary sources of protein, besides nuts and cheese and protein bars? i've come across vegetarian beef jerky strips, which don't need refrigeration. i'd appreciate your ideas:) There is TVP (Textured Vegetable Protein)
here is a nice site for vegetarian products if your interested.
http://www.healthy-eating.com/
That place is a bit expensive IMO. Here is a inexpensive wheat gluten to make seitan. (http://www.amazon.com/Vital-Wheat-Gluten-3-5-Pound/dp/B0006ZN52E/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/102-8642123-8021728?ie=UTF8&s=gourmet-food&qid=1172856308&sr=8-2) This is what I use to make my seitan.
i am an 09 thruhike hopeful who is also an ethical vegan, and would appreciate any advice/resources, especially in the footwear dept. i currently hike with garmont vegans, but can't say they are the most comfortable boots i have worn. i am testing out a pair of salomon revo gcs gtx but these aren't feeling much better...
thanks.
Alligator
09-13-2007, 22:50
i am an 09 thruhike hopeful who is also an ethical vegan, and would appreciate any advice/resources, especially in the footwear dept. i currently hike with garmont vegans, but can't say they are the most comfortable boots i have worn. i am testing out a pair of salomon revo gcs gtx but these aren't feeling much better...
thanks.If you think you might be able to switch to trail runners, your options become broader. I've noticed that trail runners with substantial mesh sometimes use non-leather materials.
If you think you might be able to switch to trail runners, your options become broader. I've noticed that trail runners with substantial mesh sometimes use non-leather materials.
Scott Jurek is an ultra runner who has won the Western States 100 seven times in a row as well as many other marquee events.
He is also a vegan.
FWIW, his site says he uses Brook running shoes.
Doing a quick google search, I found this link:
http://www.nextag.com/Shoes--a-Shoe+Material-_-Rubber--zzbrook+trail+running+shoesz2702402zB6z5---html
As Alligator said, you'll probably have more options overall if you switch to trail runners vs. traditional boots. You may want to go on a few practice hikes first with a pack using trail runners before totally commiting, though.
Good luck!
thanks Mags and Alligator for your suggestions. i need all the ankle support i can get which is why i am a bit hesitant to go for the trail runners. i was playing around last night with the lacing on the salomons, and i was able to make the fit much more comfortable. in terms of fit, they have much more room in the toe box than the garmonts, which is quite nice.
thanks Mags and Alligator for your suggestions. i need all the ankle support i can get which is why i am a bit hesitant to go for the trail runners. i was playing around last night with the lacing on the salomons, and i was able to make the fit much more comfortable. in terms of fit, they have much more room in the toe box than the garmonts, which is quite nice.
Understandable. You may want to give the trail shoes one more shot, but if they don't work you the Salomons sounds like a nice option.
Have a blast! Though it seems far away, 2009 will be here before you know it.
Good luck!
Scott Jurek is an ultra runner who has won the Western States 100 seven times in a row as well as many other marquee events.
He is also a vegan.
FWIW, his site says he uses Brook running shoes.
Hah! Good lad. I am in no way vegan, but I have hiked a couple thousand miles in Brooks trail runners, mostly the Cascadia model. Great shoes--if they fit your feet as well as they fit mine. I do use Superfeet in them, though.
Re: ankle support
There's a school of thought, which I subscribe to, that footbed stability and arch support are what really keeps your ankles from rolling. That plus walking mindfully, i.e. paying attention to where and how you place your feet. YMMV, of course, but it works really well for me.
Marta/Five-Leaf
Re: ankle support
There's a school of thought, which I subscribe to, that footbed stability and arch support are what really keeps your ankles from rolling. That plus walking mindfully, i.e. paying attention to where and how you place your feet. YMMV, of course, but it works really well for me.
That's what I find as well. Coupled with a light pack, I find I really don't need the ankle support that boots do not really seem to provide.
Again, though, it all depends upon the hiker.
The other advantage, of course, is that trail runners will offer more options in terms of vegan friendly footware.
(We'll see how long this revived thread can stay friendly. :D)
That's what I find as well. Coupled with a light pack, I find I really don't need the ankle support that boots do not really seem to provide.
I agree about the light pack. When I left Muir Trail Ranch this summer (hiking south) with more than a week's worth of food, my pack was probably close to 35 pounds, or more than 10 pounds more than the heaviest packweight I usually carry. My feet and ankles were much achier at the end of the day. (I won't go into what my shoulders thought of the situation.):rolleyes:
Marta/Five-Leaf
do you think not having physical ankle support would affect knees negatively? i have bad knees (patellofemoral bilateral compression syndrome, runner's knee, chondromalacia, ITB syndrome, i've been diagnosed with them all!) and am going back to PT for my third round in a few weeks...
do you think not having physical ankle support would affect knees negatively? i have bad knees (patellofemoral bilateral compression syndrome, runner's knee, chondromalacia, ITB syndrome, i've been diagnosed with them all!) and am going back to PT for my third round in a few weeks...
To be honest, I really don't know how much traditional ankle high boots provide in terms of ankle support. I don't think it is much as the theory goes.
I'd stronly encourage you to give trail shoes a try. See how it works. Lighter feet does equal being less tired over all. Plus trail shoes dry out more quickly. But everyone is different. You may find you do need the stiffer support a traditioanl boot provides. Your PT may have more input than some loony on the internet as well. ;)
Good luck!
Anybody have a good 'bar' recipe, maybe one with quinoa included, coconut, and cocoa? YUM!
do you think not having physical ankle support would affect knees negatively? i have bad knees (patellofemoral bilateral compression syndrome, runner's knee, chondromalacia, ITB syndrome, i've been diagnosed with them all!) and am going back to PT for my third round in a few weeks...
No, actually I don't.
I also have bad knees. Along with a couple of the above conditions, I also have arthritis in my knees. I wear Cho-Pat straps on both knees all the time while walking. And take glucosamine.
Once again, I think the important things are 1) to have good stability in the footbed of your shoes 2) walking mindfully and 3) having a light packweight (and a light body weight.) IMO those three things are are more important than having above-the-ankle boots.
Bear in mind that when I wear boots, though, they do not actually touch my ankle bones. If they do, I get blisters where they touch. So I get zero "ankle" support from boots. That's just the way I'm built.
I didn't notice how old you are, but as an older-than-some-are hiker myself, I will also say that it's important for me to have a sufficient rest from the end of one day's to the beginning of the next one. If I hike more than 8 hours a day (8 a.m. to 5 p.m., with a hour of breaks sprinkled through the day is my ideal), I am not a happy hiker the next day.
Tiredness is a huge contributor to accidents, such as stumbling and twisting ankles.
Younger hikers can often get away with abusing their bodies more, because they recover much faster. Older hikers recover more slowly--if at all.
As an aside, I think it's an important part of the recovery process to get adequate protein. That will be a tough challenge for a vegan. Are you planning to do mail drops for most of your food?
Marta/Five-Leaf
Funny posts.
Beans! Many kinds available and they are all full of protein and etc. Dehydrated are the best. I agree, if one is a veg or a vegan, what the hell are you doing going after something that emulates meat? Soy in quantity is not good for the digestive system. I suggest keeping to the basics when dealing with veg/vegan life style. Vegetarians have more to chose from but a true vegan will have no problem putting together a balanced food bag. IMHO work from a dehydrated base. Use your supplements wisely. 3 cheers for quinoa!!
Cruelty free (is this a bait?) I stress over squishing an ant but let a deer fly land on me and it is dead meat.
Marta, thanks for additional info, the trail runners sound more and more appealing. esp. as the cuffs are usually where i my lower-lower shines tend to get tender--no bruising, but after a day of hiking, they are very sensitive. i am 33 (haven't created a proper profile yet) and am working with a trainer at my gym to get stronger overall and be in good condition (and a bit lighter) when the departure day arrives. food-wise, i think mail drops will be my main supply...it gives me goosebumps just writing this, it makes it all the more real.
Marta, thanks for additional info, the trail runners sound more and more appealing. esp. as the cuffs are usually where i my lower-lower shines tend to get tender--no bruising, but after a day of hiking, they are very sensitive. i am 33 (haven't created a proper profile yet) and am working with a trainer at my gym to get stronger overall and be in good condition (and a bit lighter) when the departure day arrives. food-wise, i think mail drops will be my main supply...it gives me goosebumps just writing this, it makes it all the more real.
I think mail drops are a good idea if you have special dietary requirements. I did a lot of mail drops, and after about two months of hiking the pre-planned drops got pretty far out of synch with my needs. If I were doing it again, I would only have a few special things in the mail drops, and plan to get ordinary items (if you eat commercially-made peanut butter, or pasta, or candy, for example) along the way. That makes it a lot easier to adjust quantities as your schedule changes. It's a pain to pick up a five-day mail drop when you've realized you're going to resupply in a couple of days.
I also think working with a trainer is a great idea. I saw a sports chiropractor for several months before I started hiking, and worked with his physical therapist, too. I think it will help you in two ways. The first one is the obvious one--that you'll be stronger and fitter when you start hiking. The second is that you will learn (hopefully) how to push your limits so you can get stronger, without stepping over those limits and ending up too injured to continue. It's an interesting dance.
Good luck! Don't let the enormity of The Hike psych you out. It's just walking.;)
Marta/Five-Leaf
Trail footware: I use hiking shoes from Dunham with no leather (some Dunham shoes have leather, some don't). I can't say for sure that there are no animal products in the adhesives in Dunham and New Balance shoes which happen to be leather free, unlike the Garmont Vegan Hikers, which according to veganessentials.com are completely free of animal products. A nice thing about both Dunham and New Balance is that they come in a wide variety of widths making it much more likely to get the right fit for you. I'm a men's size 11 and my "hiking shoes" weigh 2 pounds combined, so they are just slightly heavier than trail runners which are typically between 1.5 and 2 pounds in my size, but significantly lighter than boots which are usually 3 pounds and above in my size. The first two week hike I took I wore boots and my knees got very sore after a week. In multiweek hikes since then I've worn the lighter footware AND worn the Cho-Pat knee straps that have already been mentioned and haven't had any knee pain while hiking.
Resupplying with food as a vegan: I'm pretty finicky about nutrition and when I see what's available in convenience stores/small country stores which are typical of some of the places people resupply at while on the trail, it doesn't look promising to me. I've gotten all my food together ahead of time on both of my two week hikes and resupplied periodically with what amounted to food caches rather than buy as I go in trail towns. If I ever attempt an AT thru-hike I suspect I will lean very heavilly on mail drops for food resupply.
ATRagamuffin
09-18-2007, 14:17
I'm not a vegan, however I found a chili recipe on the back of Libby's Organic Chili Beans which is delicious and dehydrates well. I took it on my last trip and prepared it "freezer bag" style. It was great! I didn't check all the ingredients in the Chili Beans can, but you could substitute if not completely vegan. Basically you saute onions and red peppers in olive oil, add garlic, when cooked, dump the cans in . . . two cans tomatoes, one of black beans, one chili beans, add cooked lentils. Season up with salt, pepper, chili powder, and paprika. I'm a recipe person, but any decent cook could make this recipe by taste.
I was a vegan for a number of years (and did an awful job at it nutrionally) but now, after a number of years I have flowed back to being a vegetarian. My trail food isn't any harder...I actually think it easier to do! And less weight as well!
If you haven't seen it, check out Harmony House Foods dried beans. Yum, oh yum! They are precooked and dehydrated, so they work in freezer bag meals. I have quite a few types in my hiking cupboard currently. The lentils are great.
So yeah, I don't worry about getting enough these days. I precook and dehydrate pasta often (whole wheat or multi grain), I have my beans, my vegetables and fruits. Add in some olive oil and spices/herbs...I am good to go!
:)
PS: Fake meat is ewwwwwwww.....
And if you are worried about B12, Nutrional Yeast can be added sparingly to meals. (Don't overdo it! Too much isn't good for you.) It adds a nice flavor, though not all will like it.
i think the shoes are the way to go, i have been fiddling with the lacing on the salomon boots, but it's still not a great fit. better to find this out now right? i'll probably head to EMS this weekend and see what they can suggest b/c my garmonts aren't that much better, and those are more than broken in.
has anyone ever tried that detailed boot fitting system i have seen advertised? as i understand one needs to make an appt. to have it done, and it involves taking a ton of different measurements.
i don't know much about dehydrating food, but i suspect i am going to learn quite a bit in the coming months. my husband and i are planning on doing a week in early spring in georgia, and supplement this fall/winter with weekend hikes and snowshoeing.
re: nutritional yeast, one time i made fake mac and cheese using a recipe i found online--it called for 1/2 c. of the stuff--it was horrid.
Appalachian Tater
09-18-2007, 23:25
Google "vegan backpacking recipes" or "vegetarian backpacking recipes" and there are plenty of suggestions out there.
I'd like to find a great recipe for food bars, you know with coconut, honey, cocao. Yum.
Honey isn't vegan though is it.
Appalachian Tater
09-19-2007, 00:11
http://www.ellenskitchen.com/recipebox/powrec.html
Just substitute cane syrup in any recipe calling for honey. Some vegans eat honey but they are lying to themselves.
MMMMMMM. Will give that a try, thanks!
And head over to the cooking/food section here! I and others have posted a number of veg recipes :) I posted a tasty Chili Mac recipe today that is veg (and vegan possible).
for those interested, i contacted Garmont North America about vegan boots:
This season our vegan models include: the Bora and the Nasty.
We will be expanding our vegan line for spring of 2008. New vegan
models will include the Kiowa Vegan, Kiowa Vegan XCR, Vento, Narly and
Alias. The Kiowa models will be mid height. The other models all will
be low cut shoes.
i wish spring started in september.