New standard in Rain jacket

[MedicineMan]

This jacket breaks all records and the price is not bad either:

http://www.argear.com/gear/grsierradesignsisotope-jacket.html

[MedicineMan]

http://www.tahoemountainsports.com/cgi-tahoemountainsports/sb/productsearch.cgi?storeid=tahoemountainsports

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Nice jacket, but it is breathable DWR - will it keep you dry in a pounding downpour?
http://www.sierradesigns.com/mens.display.php?id=580 Says it is treated with DWR (in freatures section), but above in description calls it waterproof

[MedicineMan]

i'll know in a week ;)
i would think that if SD calls it waterPROOF then it is....which reminds me of a SD product that wasnt but fond fond memories---the 60/40 parka of old, now that jacket has some trail miles on it....
anyway, the isotope will save 4 ounces off my back and will replace a Patagonia Spectre woohooo

[Marta]

Interesting jacket. Let us know how it works out.

[MedicineMan]

met you at miss J's at Thanksgiving-you were SoBo.....just remind me in a couple and I'll let ya know about it

[GlazeDog]

That's Lighter than my FroggToggs. I might have to invest.

GlazeDOg

[highway]

It looks similar to the original by Patagonia-the Dragonfly. That garment's asset is that it is very small- balled up it is the size of an orange- and very light at 3.4 oz in XL, but, like so many garments of this type, it is designed to be occasionally used but often carried.

Regrettably, the breathable factor of these garments is obviated by their lack of any physical place to vent hot, humid, backpacker generated, moist body air, from the skin out, and quickly, and not just have it slowly trickle out through some proprietary membrane, whose pores often become clogged to uselessness after just a few wearings. That means it needs a venting place like LOOONG pit zips, and not just a zippered front.

Hopefully, this garment will breathe better. But will the material hold up under the rubbing of the hip belt and shoulder straps? That is another of the downsides of the ultra-thin garments.

HHmmm.It will be interesting to see whether you bath in sweat in the rain or stay relatively dry in it. Let us know

[Johnny Swank]

Interesting jacket. I could care less about the breathability, and this jacket is about the same weight as a sil-nylon anarak from Equinox. I might check this out.

[icemanat95]

Any rain jacket without pit zips and core vents is useless.

I agree. If you can't vent the jacket without opening the front zipper, it's not a keeper.

Now what records exactly does this jacket break? Who set the standards?

[Johnny Swank]

I don't buy that at all. My main concern is staying warm, and not necessarily staying dry. Hike up a mountain in the rain and you're going to overpower any jacket, pit zips or not. You can adjust your clothing and activity level to stay relatively dry in a trashbag if you want to.

[johnny quest]

that is lighter than my 6 ounce xtra large size 02 rainjacket (with 3m porpore) by rainshield. but mine breathes pretty good. if only it wasnt bright yellow....

[Footslogger]

Interesting jacket. I could care less about the breathability, and this jacket is about the same weight as a sil-nylon anarak from Equinox. I might check this out.

=============================

Me either ...and that's exactly WHY I carry the Equinox Anorak. If it's raining and I want to stay dry the anorak works. If I'm hiking NOTHING breathes well enough to keep up with heat output from the body.

'Slogger

[Hana_Hanger]

Mark must of been one of the testers...

http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/clothing.html

still sounds very good at under 6 ounces for a XXL

[rswanson]

This jacket is not as breathable as most Goretex jackets and certainly no where near as breathable as DriDucks, Rainshield, or Dropstoppers jackets. Check all the seams, especially the pocket seams, for correct seam taping. Some of the older models lacked taping at the pocket seams.

[rswanson]

Mark must of been one of the testers...

http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/clothing.html

still sounds very good at under 6 ounces for a XXL
If I had to give one weblink to a novice backpacker to answer any gear questions, I would give him the link to Mark's page. For the most part, I've found almost everything he says to be nearly 100% correct.

[MedicineMan]

maybe a logical connection to the thread on the marmot windshirts and the growing belief in alternative clothing like paramo and buffalo....for me, i agree with the poster who said while climbing up a mountain rain or not, ultimate goretex or paclite goretex, i'm still going to get wet-one way or another, so i choose warm wet over cold and i accept that this ---the isotope-- is for occasional use/carry often.....generally as long as i'm moving i'm warm (exception 3 days ago at Hughes Gap it was 2F)....the isotope will be used most often as any rain gear i've carried to protect vital insulation below while adding a microlayer of dead air, being sacrificial for a WM Flight, or just blocking wind a wee bit more...
For my size jacket and pants are like 8.5 ounces.....I (not anyone else) would be crazy not to carry them.

[Whistler]

Here's the Backpackinglight.com mini-review (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/sierra_designs_isotope_rainshell_spotlite_review.h tml) for one of the earlier the Isotope. Average breathability, low-end on the waterproofness, as it's more targeted for mild showers than full torrential protection.
-Mark

[Marta]

met you at miss J's at Thanksgiving-you were SoBo.....

Yep, that was me. Howdy!

I agree with the people who say rain jackets are mostly about warmth and shedding some water. Does anyone really stay dry while hiking in an all-day rain? On my hike lsat year, I was wearing Dancing Light Gear's silnylon rain suit. I hiked for a couple of months with someone wearing conventional North Face Gore-Tex rainwear. Three or four hours into a rainy day we were both soaked. Going uphill, we were sweating. Rain leaks in around the neck, the waist, the wrists, the ankles... Bearing this in mind, I don't normally bother even putting rain gear on unless it's cold enough I'd be hypothermic without it.

[walkin' wally]

Just curious,

Some opinions,

Would this jacket not be considered a good choice for a wet thru hiking season like 2003?

[Johnny Swank]

I'd probably go with something more waterproof myself for something like 2003. Any of the silnylon stuff is about the same weight, and while not breathable, is more likely to let you stew in your own juices at least.

I have some friends that hiked in 2003 that resorted to using umbrellas. Said they worked great, but they still carried rain jackets for the really nasty stuff.

[rswanson]

Three or four hours into a rainy day we were both soaked. Going uphill, we were sweating. Rain leaks in around the neck, the waist, the wrists, the ankles...
Much of the time, rain that you think is leaking in, especially from the waist, is actually water being wicked up your pants then subsequently your torso baselayer. If you don't wear rain paints, this will happen after some steady rain.

[Mags]

The fallacy of all these "this gear is the best" threads is that there is NO such thing as THE best gear.

All gear choices are compromise, and all gear depends upon your hiking style, use and preferences.

There is a reason why many active outdoor people get "gear creep" and tend to have a closest full of different gear for different purposes.

I have a BOMBER outdoor shell from Marmot. I bought it seven years ago at STP. At the time, the retail price was $350 (it is a butt ugly yellow second I picked up for $80 :) ). The thing has a billion pitzips, will survive a nuclear war
, and is perfect for nasty above-treeline conditions for stop and go activities. (Ice climbing, mountaineering, alpine skiing, etc.) Guess what? My winter activities do not involve stop and go activities for the most part.Ang GTX or no GTX, it makes me sweat a lot! I maybe wear this garment a two-three times a season. Still, it is a well built garment. Just overkill for most of my activities.

Moving down in the durability factor and weight, I have my all purpose shell from Red Ledge. Another oldie (by gear standards!) that is almost a decade old and has seen hard use. The DWR is almost kaput, there are ironed on duct tape patches. This will probably be my last season with it. (Which is why I am watching these threads.. :) )

It is similar in weight to a Marmot Precip, and other "med-light' jackets. Perfect for winter where I do mainly nordic skiing, some snowshoeing and a limited amount of tele skiing. I put this puppy on when the wind and snow picks up. And need more protection. It stows in my day pack quite well (never mind my full winter pack). Because I have the outdoor style where I move all day, I rarely put it on. The Colorado winters are also blessedly sunny! When it does get nasty, it comes in handy. Not overly heavy or bulky like my Marmot shell.

I use it during group day hikes in the summer as well since we tend to lollygag more and have more "sit around time". I also use it for car camping trips where we hike all day,but spend time at night in camp. Basically, this is my "go to" item. Has been everywhere in all types of conditions (including Mt. Washington in winter and other White Mtn winter activities, not to mention the Rockies in winter).

My "moving fast and steady" garment is the one similar to the rain jacket being discussed: A GoLite wisp. 2.5 oz. It is NOT waterproof. But for my solo hiking style, 3 season (move all day at a good clip), it works very well. I generate enough body heat where my polys stay dry. If it is really nasty, I throw on my Montbell UL Windshirt (lined). I dabble in trailrunning and this garment worked well when I was moving along as I was generating LOTS of body heat. A heavier garment would have left me soaking in sweat! If it is warm rain (ala the AT in summer), I just get wet.

Again, this is for *my* hiking style. And it works well, for *me*.

So, when looking at reviews and opions of gear, be sure to take in a person's style of hiking, their use and preferences.

The only really "best" piece of gear is for you and your needs.

[Froggy]

I just received my jacket, which I'd bought on MedicineMan's recommendation, from Tahoe Mountain Sports.

TMS gave me excellent service - good recommendation!

The jacket, size medium, weighs 4.5 ounces. I'm 148 pounds, 5' 8" tall, age 59, and not totally out of shape. The jacket is on the small size for me, and doesn't fit if I'm wearing a sweater. I tend to run a bit longer from the shoulders to the waist than average but I'm otherwise a medium. This jacket barely came to my waist.

Quality of construction is good.

There's two large zippered cargo/hand pockets.

No lining at all.

The "cuffs" are just elastic in a fold-over seam of the fabric. Might not take a lot of wear, but duct tape would patch it if that failed.

My take on it is that if you're careful it would do the job. But it's a garment for one pass on the AT, no more, after which it'll be retired.

Nice jacket, but unfortunately it doesn't exactly fit.

[FanaticFringer]

I just received my jacket, which I'd bought on MedicineMan's recommendation, from Tahoe Mountain Sports.

TMS gave me excellent service - good recommendation!

The jacket, size medium, weighs 4.5 ounces. I'm 148 pounds, 5' 8" tall, age 59, and not totally out of shape. The jacket is on the small size for me, and doesn't fit if I'm wearing a sweater. I tend to run a bit longer from the shoulders to the waist than average but I'm otherwise a medium. This jacket barely came to my waist.

Quality of construction is good.

There's two large zippered cargo/hand pockets.

No lining at all.

The "cuffs" are just elastic in a fold-over seam of the fabric. Might not take a lot of wear, but duct tape would patch it if that failed.

My take on it is that if you're careful it would do the job. But it's a garment for one pass on the AT, no more, after which it'll be retired.

Nice jacket, but unfortunately it doesn't exactly fit.


With a name like yours, I'd expect you'd like Frogg Toggs.:D

[Froggy]

As it happens, I've never even seen Frogg Toggs....

[MedicineMan]

but I always wear XL, so fingers crossed i can get something under it!

[Chicken Feathers]

Rain jackets are either waterproof and not breathable or breathable and waterproof. DWR material is not waterproof do a google search on it

[HikeLite]

This jacket has been around for months and others didn't like it.

[Boat Drinks]

I don't buy that at all. My main concern is staying warm, and not necessarily staying dry. Hike up a mountain in the rain and you're going to overpower any jacket, pit zips or not. You can adjust your clothing and activity level to stay relatively dry in a trashbag if you want to.
If staying warm is your major concern, not staying dry, wouldn't a thicker material be better? Or to put layers on under any type of rain shell? I don't understand...:confused:

[MedicineMan]

Well my intent was just to let the community know it was out there..it was news to me. Now that I have recieved the jacket I CAN recommend it, especially at the $54 price I paid......its def. not for glissading or even bushwacking but this is an AT forum and not talking about climbing Hood or Ranier in it, and that MedicineMan guy is old and has worn out joints :) Its obvious that the Isotope is disposable wear, how long you'll wear it before disposing is like religeon, a very personal affair.
My concern was the sizing. I always wear XL in all shirts/jackets/blazers. When I tried on the XL Isotope I was wearing a XL Patagonia Expediton weight capilene zip AND an XL Patagonia Hooded Retro Pile under it and zipping up was easy......so fit is a non issue for me. The only thing I am not in love with (and had a Lowe Alpine rain jacket with the same beef) is the velcro tabs on the zipper guard.....I know its nice there are there for the protection but their just a bit of a pain when zipping or unzipping...
So waterproof/breathable/XL at 5.4 oz/and $54

[Marta]

If staying warm is your major concern, not staying dry, wouldn't a thicker material be better? Or to put layers on under any type of rain shell? I don't understand...:confused:

You've pretty much answered your own question with the thought about layering. A really thin outer shell that is windproof and waterproof is great for trapping all that warm air close to your body, without taking up a lot of space and adding a lot of weight to your pack. As long as it doesn't compress all the layers underneath, which would cut down on your warmth.

[Johnny Swank]

My point with that post is that I'm not all that hung up on waterproof-breathable fabrics. I don't bother putting on a rain jacket unless its pouring, and at that point all I want to be is warm. As long as you can regulate your activity output, you can deal with overheating for the most part.

Basically, as long as I'm warm, I don't care if I'm wearing a trashbag.

[JoeHiker]

Rain jackets are either waterproof and not breathable or breathable and waterproof. DWR material is not waterproof do a google search on it

Nope. Rain jackets made out of eVENT are water proof and extremely breathable. Roughly 3 x as breathable as GoreTex. The Integral Designs jacket is fantastically breathable.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I agree with the people who say rain jackets are mostly about warmth and shedding some water. Does anyone really stay dry while hiking in an all-day rain? On my hike lsat year, I was wearing Dancing Light Gear's silnylon rain suit. I hiked for a couple of months with someone wearing conventional North Face Gore-Tex rainwear. Three or four hours into a rainy day we were both soaked. Going uphill, we were sweating. Rain leaks in around the neck, the waist, the wrists, the ankles... Bearing this in mind, I don't normally bother even putting rain gear on unless it's cold enough I'd be hypothermic without it.
You've pretty much answered your own question with the thought about layering. A really thin outer shell that is windproof and waterproof is great for trapping all that warm air close to your body, without taking up a lot of space and adding a lot of weight to your pack. As long as it doesn't compress all the layers underneath, which would cut down on your warmth.::: Female dino nominates Marta for world's wisest woman :::

The dinos use homemade silnylon ponchos with extra material to cover packs in warm weather and Frogg Toggs plus Just Jeff's / JRB All-in-one pack cover in cold weather.

[MedicineMan]

'I don't normally bother even putting rain gear on unless
it's cold enough I'd be hypothermic without it' and then ask yourself how often that is.....for me not that often, therefore the lightest possible, and for the legs which for most people can stand even more cold at least while on the move nothing is needed, that's why most hikers dont even carry rain paints, but for the times when the temps are low AND the wind is stinging your legs look at these:

http://www.argear.com/gear/grmontbellulwindpants.html
Having the Montbell Thermawrap Jacket,Parka, Vest and Pants and having put all under a running faucet I'll bet the windpant is highly water repellant though not waterproof.....but after reading all of the posts on this thread it seems that the bottom line is to keep cold wet away from your warm wet :)

[Marta]

::: Female dino nominates Marta for world's wisest woman :::

Thank you, Ma'am! I always figured I'm the kind of woman who would have been burned at the stake a few hundred years ago...too uppity for my own good.

[Drala Hiker]

In regards to the comments on DWR not being waterproof - DWR is a key component in any waterproof/breathable jacket; and most shell jackets in general. There is an excellent article on DWR at BackpackingLight.com.

For example, a Precip or GTX Packlite jacket with worn DWR, typical of shoulder strap areas, will wet through the fabric in short order. The result is a wet-feeling in that area. Lack of DWR will also create a situation where body oils are more readily wicking into the breathable fabric (assuming only a next to skin layer under the jacket), effectively clogging the micropores, thus allowing water to penetrate as the fabric can no longer adequately breathe.

I have direct experience with worn DWR, and my guess is that most of you have, though you may not have realized it at the time - nor did I.

Most good DWR can be temporarily revived in the clothers drier on a low setting for just a few minutes. Ironing can do the same, good for spot areas. Spray-on DWR is also good for spot use. If your jacket is a few years old and is used regularly, wash-in DWR is the way to do.