Caldera Cone

[Rebel, with a Cause!]

Tester: Rebel with a Cause, hiking since 1999, live near the Smokies and SGT Rock, into lightweight and AT hiking.

Hiked to Damascus in 2002 from Springer, again in 2006 to Hot Springs

Previous stoves used: Superfly Canister Stove, Trangia Westwind, and several homemade alcohol stoves.

The Caldera Cone Stove and setup is produced by Traildesigns and can be seen here:

http://traildesigns.com/products01.html

Stove Picture: http://traildesigns.com/images/caldera.jpg

Now about the stove ( Quote from Trail Designs )

This is a revolutionary approach to alcohol stove cookery. Trail Designs has developed a cone and stove system that is tuned to specific pots to create the most efficient alcohol stove system in the known universe. By completely enclosing the pot and stove within the Caldera Cone, and fine tuning the alcohol stove (included) to work in that environment, we are now able to milk every last BTU out of your fuel and funnel it onto all sides of your pot. Not only does the cone system optimize your fuel usage, we also eliminate the need for a pot stand by supporting the pot from the top of the cone.....and its wide base provides the most stable system on the market. And if that weren't enough, by totaly enclosing the pot and stove, nothing performs better in the wind. Period. The Caldera Cone unfolds to pack flat or you can roll it up for easy storage.

Tests: Temperature = 32 Degrees, Wind 5 MPH, Alcohol HEET ( Yellow Bottle ) Water at 32 Degrees, 2 Cups ( 8 OZ )

Cook Set: Snow Peak 1400 TI pot and Lid

Achieved a Rolling Boil at 5 minutes and burn out at 9 minutes using 20 ml of fuel. Very efficient, almost wind proof, flame was kept isolated within the cone for maximium heat transfer.

Did test 3 times with all tests with in 15 seconds of above.

Comment: Previously with both my Canister stove and various alcohol stoves, Wind was always a problem. With the Superfly Canister Stove, under 32 Degrees temps made for very long boiling times ( 10 minutes or longer ) and as the volume of gas went down, burn times increased. With all of my alcohol stoves, boiling times were longer and pot support was not too good.

The Caldera Cone works great at lower temps, has very good pot support and is very efficient. The only drawback is where to put the large windscreen in your pack. Choice 1: lay it flat inside your sleeping pad or against the back of your pack. Choice 2: roll it up tight into a small tube and place it inside a stuff sack, around a cylinder alcohol bottle. I used a Padded Coleman Stuff sack with the windscreen rolled up inside,which my pot fit up and around the bottom, placed my kitchen stuff inside and placed the lid on top. Measures 8" X 5" ( All Kitchen stuff, stove and windscreen )

Weights: Stove and windscreen is 2.7 Oz for the Snow Peak 1400 design.

Antigravitygear also sells the Caldera stove made for their 3 CUP and 2 Quart Pot sets. Go here for info:

3 Cup: http://www.antigravitygear.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=214

2 Quart: http://www.antigravitygear.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=216

Final remarks: Great in the Wind, Cold, Great pot support and very efficient. 8 Oz of fuel will last for about 12 uses to boil 2 cups of water each use.

I will follow up with warmer tests after it gets warmer here :)

Have fun and I hope you enjoyed this review

[GlazeDog]

You've really got me sold on this thing. I can't wait to order mine.

GlazeDog

[MedicineMan]

but I didnt see the MSR Titan Kettle listed----and this is a very very common pot among hikers...i did write them to see if they have one that will fit.

[Hana_Hanger]

This stove has my attention as well.

Please let us know MedicineMan if you get an answer.
I see they have many sizes available but only the 3 cup and the 2 quart are being promoted the most.

I would think it would be almost equal to the Snow Peak 600 or 700 or the Evergreen .9 pots....meaning since those fit would not the MSR Titan one fit??

[MedicineMan]

if so i'll order quickly....15ml's for 2 cups of water--that is sweet.
Next is to get the cone in titanium.......I would like to see a closeup of how it closes into a cone....

[Hana_Hanger]

This is a great review with many photos and even cooking steaks on that stove...oh yeah...I guess I need to hike with a cooler and ice too :D

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Cook%20Gear/Stoves/Trail%20Designs%20Caldera%20Cone%20Stove%20System/Ralph%20Ditton/Test%20Report%20by%20Ralph%20Ditton/

[Hana_Hanger]

Thanks to you and your review I went searching for more reviews.
I tend to respect "most" opinions here on the WB first...especially when many vote that it is a great product etc...
Again Thank You for sharing.

[MedicineMan]

and made me think that the CC would also be fine to put twigs in to burn...yep, see one in my future

[Marta]

but I didnt see the MSR Titan Kettle listed----and this is a very very common pot among hikers...

They do. Or at least they did last Trail Days. I'm about to get a new pot support/wind screen and was told that they're having some supply problems with the sheet metal and the wind screen will be a bit delayed in its arrival.

Marta/Five-Leaf

[MedicineMan]

sometimes and mostly lately I've burned esbit not meth.....so wondering how the little white tabs will do in this machine.....The triax xe is nice for buring both....maybe will have to experiment with the triad+esbit in the CC.

[Grampie]

Hi Rebel, Good report. I talked to these guys at Trail Days last year and saw their demo. The stove was quite impressive but; The cone screen is quite bulkey and is somewhat of a problem to pack. I showed and demostrated my cook gear to them. Everything fits into my 1lt. pot. That includes stove, windscreen, spoon and lighter. Very compact. They were impressed with how simple my set up is.:)

[GlazeDog]

Hana Hanger-- I think they promote the 3C and 2 qt. pot versions because the whole combo set is available at Anti Gravity Gear. I guess sinse they're already making them for AGG, those have to be on hand all the time. Thus the promo. See link the AGG sight:

http://www.antigravitygear.com/

GlazeDog

[Rebel, with a Cause!]

The cone goes together very well. There is a extruded ridge along both sides on the ends. When the ends are brought together, the ridges match up and are pressed together. Also there are 3 tabs that fit into the 3 slots also along the sides. When this is all done the cone holds together very nicely. Trust me on this, as this is the least thing to worry about. This cone goes together NICE and easy !! By the way, the cone has a nice cutout at the top for the grippers or for the handles, depending on what kind of pot you have.

You Light the stove, Center the cone over it, put the pot into the hole and align the cutout with your handle and there you are done. Put the lid on your pot and wait for the steam or about 5 minutes. You will immediately notice how much of the heat is trapped inside the cone. And be sure to try it at least once in a good wind. I did today and it made NO DIFFERENCE !! This stove is actually fun to use :) And to knock this stove over, you will have to use it like a football :)

Have fun gang and good luck if you get one. Let us know WHAT you think.

[MedicineMan]

a Caldera Cone for the MSR Titan Kettle is forthcoming, specifically a new/improved model just for the Titan Kettle that takes into account the pot length handle on the Titan......so good news for us Titan owners :)

[traildesigns]

WOW! Thanks so much for all the great information, feedback and support!

For background, my name is Rand and I am one of the partners in Trail Designs who developed and build the Caldera Cone. I have talked with a number of you in the past individually, but think it might be time to do a more public post.

Marta.....thanks for boldly charging up (down actually) the AT with the Caldera Cone. We just dropped your upgraded stove in the mail this week so keep an eye peeled. You must have seen the post on the MSR Kettle modifications. Once those come in....we'll upgrade you there as well.

Esbit.....originally, we developed an entire esbit kit to use with the Caldera Cone instead of the alc. stove. I personally did a bunch of field testing of this and it did great! However, the *CONE* I was testing it with was a VERY early prototype that was riveted into its cone shape instead of the final design that allows the cone to unfold. Once we did esbit testing on the "openable" cone, we found that the heat produced by the esbit was so extreme (as compared to the alcohol stove) that it actually changed the temper of the aluminum we were using and made the closure mechanism less effective. Rather than risk it, we temporarilly put the esbit kits on the shelf. We are coming up with an improved closure that likely will address these issues and the esbit kits might re-appear once it is proven at that temperature. (keep reading for Next Generation closure info)

Twigs.....Another observation was made that perhaps you could burn wood inside the cone. Rest assured, this is not a nuance that has been lost on us. However, if you think esbit burns hot, you haven't seen anything until you get a roaring fire going inside an aluminum cone supporting a pot of boiling water....very bad things can happen...so it is most definately not recommended. Nevertheless, we believe we have a Caldera Cone design to do a 3-fuel system that would take you from alc. to esbit to wood. Titanium and some severe design modifications will be involved.....but it's been prototyped....and....we have a dream. Stay tuned.

AGG Relationship....Observations were correctly made that the Caldera Cones supporting the AGG pots are more prominently featured in our web site. That is true. The reason is, the original development process was aimed at supporting the Antigravity Gear pots and Mama's Kitchen line of products. George Andrews was a big help in encouraging us and promoting our gear. So, when it came to actually selling the system, the AGG web site was much further ahead "ecommerce-wise" than our site, and as a consequence, the AGG Caldera Cones can be ordered without human intervention. The SP1400s, MSR Kettles, SP600 cones etc orders are handled via email through me....for the time being. In the near future, we will be shifting all our manual processes to an online mechanism so any Caldera Cone size will be able without having to go through me. :(

Reviews.....There was a pointer to the Backpack Gear Test guys cooking steaks on our system! Just so you know, we NEVER pictured this system being used in that configuration.....and that is exactly why we worked with the good folks at BPGT.....to see what real people do with our stuff. We have received some excelent input from them and are tickled to read their reviews. In case you are interested in another review, Alan Dixion at Backpacking Light selected the Caldera Cone as his "Staff Pick" for 2006. Check it out at:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/2006_bpl_staff_picks.html

Next Generation......As has been discussed here, we are evolving the Caldera Cone design to include a few new features, not least of which is the closure mechanism enhancement. The current closure mechanism works fine. However, if you look at the pictures on the various web sites, you will see that we need to cut a slot in the side of the cone for the handle to pass through. Below that handle cut out, is the "seam closure" that allows the cone to disconnect and lay flat. Now, that is all fine and dandy, until you run into a pot....like the MSR .85....whos handle is nearly as tall as the pot. In this situation, the handle cutout consumes a large percentage of the "seam" area needed to make the closure work. The original/classic closure is fine, but for the more severe handled pots like the MSR Kettle, we grew concerned that repeated heat cycling and bending might compromise it over time. Well, we have come up with a new closure mechanism that is bullet proof, and are working feverishly to get it productized. In the mean time, we will probably be dragging our heels on MSR Kettle "type" orders so that we can get the best product in folks hands.

I hope this answers some of your questions. Thanks again for your interest and support.....

Rand :)

[MedicineMan]

Now why can all companies do what Rand just did? Thanks for appearing and contributing here!

[Hana_Hanger]

Hana Hanger-- I think they promote the 3C and 2 qt. pot versions because the whole combo set is available at Anti Gravity Gear. I guess sinse they're already making them for AGG, those have to be on hand all the time. Thus the promo. See link the AGG sight:

http://www.antigravitygear.com/

GlazeDog

Thank You GlazeDog
I did check that out.

[Hana_Hanger]

Wow I am so impressed and now I am waiting for the next generation of the Caldera Cone :)
from another lover of my MSR Titan !!

Update: I got a wonderful email from Rand ...the customer service is wonderful.
Since patience is not one of my strong points, I am going to order that 2 qt size
stove for when I am not going solo. Besides the Bake Packer Ultra-Lite will fit in there too!
My son turns 17 while on the trail with me this year, and I need to at least make him a cupcake :D

[Marta]

Thanks, Rand! I'll be trying it out weekend after this one around Standing Indian.

Marta/Five-Leaf

[GlazeDog]

Rand --
Thanks for the awesome feedback!! Now, I'm more enamored with this product than ever. I'm ordering this weekend. Very professional and pleasant tone Rand.

Sincerely--
GlazeDog

[peanuts]

Wow, Rand, thank you posting! I have been eyeing your stove system myself, and I can safely say another wow... Planning to do one for the SPSCS-004T? This inquring mind would like to know.:)

[traildesigns]

Wow, Rand, thank you posting! I have been eyeing your stove system myself, and I can safely say another wow... Planning to do one for the SPSCS-004T? This inquring mind would like to know.:)


So....I'm just spit-ballin' here....but I'm guessing that SPSCS-004T is the Snow Peak product number for the titanium Mini-Solo. If so, then the answer is that we already have a Mini-Solo design.....so no planning needed! :) Head on over to http://traildesigns.com and send an email to the address you find there (would rather not post it here for fear of robots and spiders oh-my!) and that will prompt me to see if we have one on the shelf.

Rand :)

[Hana_Hanger]

I got it!!
Thanks again to Rand for all his help and great service.

I am so in love with this stove. It is truly a JetBoil of the Alkys Stove!!!!

3 cups of water to a rolling BOIL on only 15 ml yep thats right just 1/2 ounce of alcohol!!!!!

Be warned ... the hardest part is not to lift the lid or try to see the darn thing working...but you can hear it :D


Hint: I used a extra-large plastic cup the kind you get from Burger King or Mc Donald's and the complete wind screen sits inside of it...nothing sticking out above, and no sharp edges or anything to worry about!!! It comes with a small red solo cup which is fine, but I wanted something to fit both the cone, stove, my spork and the pot gripper...all inside.

[Rebel, with a Cause!]

I got lucky and bought a Coleman Padded stuff sack ( 1 oz ) from Campmor (Item # 80264 )

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=13710&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

This sack will hold the screen perfectly and allow you to put all your kitchen stuff inside it. By accident the pot fit great over the bottom and the pot lid fit the open top. This was with a Snow peak 1400. I can now put this into my food sack. BTW its 8 X 5 fully opened. The Snow peak pot is 5.25 inches Diameter so it fits around the outside bottom great.

I hated to use another oz of weight but this turned out just too nice not to use.

Ok cya later, my wife and I are going hiking in the Smokies today and try out the stove and her other gear. Fun, Fun, fun

[GlazeDog]

All Right---A cold weather report from the field will be forth coming I bet. Sweet. :)

GlazeDog

[Skidsteer]

I got lucky and bought a Coleman Padded stuff sack ( 1 oz ) from Campmor (Item # 80264 )

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=13710&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

This sack will hold the screen perfectly and allow you to put all your kitchen stuff inside it. By accident the pot fit great over the bottom and the pot lid fit the open top. This was with a Snow peak 1400. I can now put this into my food sack. BTW its 8 X 5 fully opened. The Snow peak pot is 5.25 inches Diameter so it fits around the outside bottom great.

I hated to use another oz of weight but this turned out just too nice not to use.

Ok cya later, my wife and I are going hiking in the Smokies today and try out the stove and her other gear. Fun, Fun, fun

Well there ya go. It looks like it would make a dandy freezer bag cozy as well. Dual use.

[zelph]

Does a pot gripper come with it and how much does it weigh?

Here is a photo of the potgripper (http://www.antigravitygear.com/store/images/Basic_3CSolo_A.jpg)shown through antigravity gear.

[MedicineMan]

as soon as one is available for the MSR Titan please send me a PM....

[zelph]

Ok cya later, my wife and I are going hiking in the Smokies today and try out the stove and her other gear. Fun, Fun, fun<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->


OK Rebel, we are waiting for an update on the cone. You should have returned by now from the Smokies.

Does it come with a pot lifter/grabber and how much does it add weight wise ?

Hana!!!!!3 cups water boiled with 1/2 ounce fuel??? Do me a favor, put the "StarLyte" burner in the cone and see how it fares. I feel venturesome:D with your new potstand:banana

[GlazeDog]

Does it come with a pot lifter/grabber and how much does it add weight wise ?


Zelph--
If you follow the links you can figure this out got yourself. The stove weighs a certain amount for AGG pots (3cup or 2Liter sizes) Then add weight of pot and weight of pot gripper.

stove: http://traildesigns.com/products01.html
pots: http://www.antigravitygear.com/store/index.php?cPath=3_11

I'd still like to hear that update from the GSMNP though.

GlazeDog

[zelph]

Zelph--
If you follow the links you can figure this out got yourself. The stove weighs a certain amount for AGG pots (3cup or 2Liter sizes) Then add weight of pot and weight of pot gripper.

stove: http://traildesigns.com/products01.html
pots: http://www.antigravitygear.com/store/index.php?cPath=3_11

I'd still like to hear that update from the GSMNP though.

GlazeDog

Thanks GlazeDog, that was a really big help.

I just wanted to know if a pot gripper came with the stove or if it had to be purchased seperate.

Thanks for the links, I did my research, I answered my own question.

Zelph

[Hana_Hanger]

Hi Zelph,
Just tested it out with your stove today...message sent to you.

As far as I know if you are getting the 3 cup pot or 2 qt pot by itself it does not come with a pot gripper it must be purchased alone if needed.

http://www.antigravitygear.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=3_11&products_id=74