Hello again everyone.

I guess maybe I'm getting lazy but I'm getting tired of setting up shelter everynight when I go camping/canoeing/hiking. Heck, if rain is in the forecast I'm more than likely not going to be out anyway. I'm looking at rigging up a bedroll using a 8' x 8' tarp. If it looks like rain I can set up the tarp and if it looks dry I can just crash out under the stars. Just roll it out and I'm done. If a sudden, unexpected rain comes up I can just wrap up in the tarp and stay reasonably protected.

Here's my problem: Canvas is durable enough but is too heavy and not waterproof. I worry that silnylon and other coated nylons will not be durable enough and are too light (i.e. it will blow off in a rain with even a slight wind). I'd hate to use a poly tarp because of the noise.

Any Idea's on what would be a good, completely waterproof material suitable for using as the outer covering of a bedroll? Cost is a factor.

CB

P.S. I've used bivy sacks but they are a pain to get into (a BIG pain when it's raining!) and cannot be set up for shelter like a tarp.

What about bugs? What about your stuff? Are you going to roll your pack, stove, food, etc into the tarp with you?

I have been in some outragous weather under tarps and staying dry is not a problem if you take the time to learn set-ups. Wrapping up in a tarp is a major problem. You will stay very warm however your sleeping bag / blanket / bed roll will be completely soaked in the morning due to condensation. If you will be cold due to lower temps, take a warmer bag.

geek

I'll just shove them into your tent. OK?

To be honest, I've been sleeping without a shelter or with just a bivy sack. It's nothing new for me and in a lot of ways I prefer it, Bugs and all. But thanks for your concern.

Any ideas on material?

CB

You will stay very warm however your sleeping bag / blanket / bed roll will be completely soaked in the morning due to condensation.

geek

I've had the same problems with bivy sacks. Not completly soaked but definetly damp.

I should of stated that this is for short trips of 1-3 nights and only when the forecast is fair or better. If the weather man blows it and it looks like rain when I get to camp I'll set up the tarp.

All that I'm looking for is a tarp material that is durable and waterproof enough to use as as a bedroll for the very, very rare occasion that it starts to rain or storm in the middle of the night without any warning.

CB

urethane coated nylon. Campmor. Cheaper than sil and more durable.
If a few oz.s aren't a problem, buy a 10' x 10'. Keep to square--it is so much easier to learn set-ups than with rectangular.

geek

Tyvek. It can be had for nothing if you are a good scrounger and it's pretty durable, weather proof, and not very heavy.

Anyone got Tyvek for sale? The contractors here favor the type with the "hairy" underside. Kite tyvek seems spendy, and I sure don't need a Home Depot load of it. Thought about the bivy thing myself.

How do you keep your head exposed to air. I had to do this once on the AT (not too bright of me), I forget how I did it. It seems that you are just making a modified bivy, which makes sence to me. What about emergency tube tents. I beleive they are just a tube of plastic that is held up with a rope running through it, or not held up and laying on top of you. For that fact there were a couple of "emergency shelters" at campor's website that would sem to do the job. http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?categoryId=303&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226
TB

urethane coated nylon. Campmor. Cheaper than sil and more durable.
If a few oz.s aren't a problem, buy a 10' x 10'. Keep to square--it is so much easier to learn set-ups than with rectangular.A second vote for this option in your situation.

You could carry a double groundcloth of, say, 4 mil plastic. A 7x8 piece should be good enough .... and it's cheap and replaceable.

I carry a DWR Bivy and I have to agree .... it's a pain to get in and out of, espcially if your zipping yourself up in your bag too. A lot of fiddle factor if you ask me.

JacksrBetter sells a 8x8 tarp plus they have free instructions for modifying it into a rain cape. 8X8 would be large enough to keep you from getting wet without a Bivy.

As for pitches, well, they do take a little time to learn, but I use a simple pyramid pitch with my poncho tarp about 80% of the time, when I'm not sleeping out under the stars, that is. I can have it up in about 3 mins.

Lay out the poncho tarp, or the 8x8 tarp, stake two corners what will be the back (one of the long sides), use a stick, or tree, or a hiking pole to prop up the middle of the other long side and one guyline to stake it out or tie it to a tree, then bring down the other two corners and stake them in place.

No big fiddle factor and pretty storm worthy, especially if pitched with a tree and with the side to the ground into the wind.

Sleep half in and half out, with your gear under the poncho, then climb in if it starts to rain in the middle of the night.

It occurs to me that more durable and functional version of the tube tent (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=12184) might be something for you to consider - if you made one of silnylon and had permanent ties on either end, it would be quite easy and fast to deploy. By cutting the material so it formed 'beaks' at either end, you would have a very weather worthy shelter. On dry nights, you could simply use the tent as a ground cloth.

On the motorcycles, we use the cheap blue PE tarps, 8 x 12. There's enough room for you and the gear.

I've never noticed any appreciable condensation in the morning. I've slept in low 40's several times. Never done it in a downpour, or really any appreciable rainfall.

As always, "Location! Location! Location!" for rainy set up.

We call this getup "The Blue Burrito"

Miles of Smiles
Tom

Tyvek is perfect for a bed-roll/bivy. Size it so you can tuck the top edge and foot well under the bottom layer, and to leave at least 18 inches (24 is better) to cover your head. To keep rain from collecting at the head end of the ground-sheet section, fold the bottom diagonally from the shoulder fold to the open side in order to make a sort of top flap. Or you can just cut it to make a head covering. Total dimensions will be something like 10 or 11 x 6 feet, and will weigh about 12 ounces. I do not recommend sewing or glueing it to close the foot; in some conditions, you will want to open the foot to ventillate it.

Tyvek is highly water resistant and breathable. It is not so water resistant that you can camp in a puddle; the pressure of your body will force water through. However, it will handle damp ground with no standing water.

Tyvek breathes better than most of the laminated waterproof/breathable fabrics. However, when new is sounds like a big sheet of aluminum foil popping in the wind. You can soften it by wringing it vigorously and by washing it several times. If you want to stealth camp, you can reduce the white glare by spraying it with any camp or acrylic paint after it is softened up. The paint will flake off in time, but it is easily renewable.

Anyone got Tyvek for sale? The contractors here favor the type with the "hairy" underside. Kite tyvek seems spendy, and I sure don't need a Home Depot load of it. Thought about the bivy thing myself.

You can buy small pieces of Tyvek from AGG. Here is their website http://www.antigravitygear.com/store/index.php?cPath=1

Well, I've scraped the bedroll idea. Decided to stick with the Bivy's. It's not like I'll need it every night. Might not need it at all.

I do debate the breath ability of Tyvek. I made/have a tyvek bivy and my bag gets damp from condensation. The sleeping bag even shows dark spots where my body and legs were. Anyone else try it? I'll still use it because damp is better than drenched. But if it looks like rain I'll set up the tarp. If it doesn't look like rain I'll take my chances. Tyvek is great though and I'll never argue against using Tyvek for a light, free, durable and waterproof bivy.

To keep the tyvek bivy off my face I installed a grommet in each corner of the "upper" flap. I then prop a couple sticks up into the grommets to keep the flap off my face. Works great in a downward rain and if the wind picks up I yank the sticks out and bunker down.

I did look at the 10' x 10 tarps at Campmor. I'll be getting one soon and do some sewing on it to make a great forester tarp. I would get one of the Sportmans Guide tarps but I don't like catenary cut tarps.

CB