Heineken Doodah Man Special [Archive] - WhiteBlaze

zelph

03-08-2007, 12:02

A recent comunication with the "doodah man" tweeked my brain, came up with this Heineken stove:

Weighs 36.3 grams(a tad over an ounce)

Used 20 ml of denatured alcohol

Did 3 test boils this morning. Using 2 cups water @ 70 degrees

1st test 5 min. boil

2nd failed, tried to incorporate windscreen in a hurry, blah blah blah:)

3rd test 5 1/2 min. boil

1st test the water continued to boil for 1 1/2 min.

3rd test the water continued to boil for 1 1/2 min.

Tests were under ideal conditions in the kitchen.

The stove is a cut down version of the "whatchamacallit" stove.

No heat is applied to the bottom of the pot, it's all even heat around the perimeter of the pot. It works!!!!!!

I'll take a nightime photo of it to show flame pattern.

doodah man is going to use the Heineken pot as his primary water heating pot. I'm going to send this stove to him to try it out before he departs on his thru. I'll also include some "TwiLyte" burners to try under his pot. I won't send him a PM to let him know, I'll see if he still reads my threads:)

There is a lot of room for tweeking this burner to reduce weight and design. The black plumbers cloth that Skidsteer sent me is a nice candidate for the wick material. Thanks a lot Skids. The material he sent looks like "felt" much better than the white plumbers cloth that I sent him.

Here are two photos:

One shows what it looks like. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Heinknbrn003.jpg) Just above the burning wick, on the humped portion of the pot, are dropplets of water that have condensed and eventually evaporated.

The second one shows the same (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Heinknbrn004.jpg)and you can almost see some flame at the right hand side of the pot.

There is unique occurance that takes place once the water starts to boil. The flames increase in intensity as if the boiling water at the bottom of the pot causes the remaining fuel to evaporate at a faster pace. I love stove making:banana

Grinder

03-08-2007, 12:08

how much water? one cup?

Tomb

zelph

03-08-2007, 12:22

how much water? one cup?

Tomb

I used 2 cups water @ 70 degrees out of the tap.

1st test the water continued to boil for 1 1/2 min.

3rd test the water continued to boil for 1 1/2 min.

Grinder

03-08-2007, 12:38

Pest

03-08-2007, 12:59

That looks good but I wonder if it can boil water that is colder? Our river and lake water never gets that warm. In fact the EPA gets really excited when our waters get above 18C 18 degrees Celsius = 64.4 degrees Fahrenheit. How much fuel does it hold?

According to google 20 ml = 1.3525609 US tablespoons

zelph

03-08-2007, 13:13

WOW!!

That's double time. My Heineken with side burner minibull stove takes right at 10 min. time and again.

Can't wait for the details of the stove. (container and wick and how wick is folded)

Thanks
Tom

Had some spare time to get a couple of darkroom photos in, forced nightime:)

Here is what the flame pattern looks like:

Photo One (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Heinknbrn005.jpg) Half min. after lighting

Photo Two (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Heinknbrn007.jpg)

Photo Three (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Heinknbrn010.jpg)

Photo Four (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Heinknbrn015.jpg) Fuel almost gone

The wick is only up above the rim about 3/16 of an inch. If I were to raise it it would cause the flames to be larger and consume more fuel and may not achieve a boil. Tests are ongoing.

pest
That looks good but I wonder if it can boil water that is colder? Our river and lake water never gets that warm. In fact the EPA gets really excited when our waters get above 18C 18 degrees Celsius = 64.4 degrees Fahrenheit. How much fuel does it hold?

Don't have the amount of fuel it can hold yet.

If it can get cold water up to 200 degrees that will be ok with me. My freezer bag cooking tests show that my noodles will be rehydrated after 10 min. of being in a simple brown bag cozy outside in 10 degree weather. Out of the bag to read 180 degrees, too hot to eat without blowing on them to cool em down.:banana

Pest

03-08-2007, 13:27

Yes 200 would be just fine for cooking. I like to have a cup of tea with my meal and for tea the water has to be boiling but I don't need two cups of boiling water at a time.

I have a system based on pouring the water into an insulated cup at letting the meal "simmer" in the cup and then drinking a cup of tea out of the can pot while holding it with a bubble wrap cozy. I'll post pictures of my system when get around to it.

I should have gone hiking today but I don't feel well enough, maybe tomorrow.

Pest

03-08-2007, 13:29

What is the stove made of anyway? I've got a foot of fiberglass wick to play with here. The flame pattern looks great!

Grinder

03-08-2007, 14:22

what pest said.
In other words, what was the donor can?

Thanks
Tom

zelph

03-08-2007, 14:36

What is the stove made of anyway? I've got a foot of fiberglass wick to play with here. The flame pattern looks great!

teblum what pest said.
In other words, what was the donor can?

It's made from an aluminum cup, read about how the original was made in this thread. (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18201) The "Whatchamacallit" stove.

doodah man

03-08-2007, 15:53

A recent comunication with the "doodah man" tweeked my brain, came up with this Heineken stove:

...snippage...

doodah man is going to use the Heineken pot as his primary water heating pot. I'm going to send this stove to him to try it out before he departs on his thru. I'll also include some "TwiLyte" burners to try under his pot. I won't send him a PM to let him know, I'll see if he still reads my threads:)

Yeah Zelph,
I still read all your postings. Wouldn't miss them. I am looking forward to the goodies on the way... Thanks for that. I must say, they will have to be pretty good to best the performance of your StarLyte wedding tin stove. As a shake down prior to my thru attempt, I have done a bunch of freezer bag style meals with it and the performance has been fantastic. (I am just switching from a white gas stove to an alky stove so I was was previously a cook & simmer style guy so I have to adapt). If I wasn't going to be hiking for four months I would be doing what you are and 'playing with fire' as it is very addicting. Have fun and don't singe the eyebrows... doodah-man

Grinder

03-08-2007, 16:09

Hey Pest,

It looks like a 29 OZ. Tomato Can is about the right size for a test. From Zelph's pictures, it scales to about 3 3/4 inch diameter.

I remember hearing about Big Lot's having aluminum cups on sale. Just went there, but couldn't find any.

I'll try it with the can I have and upgrade to aluminum later.

If anyone knows where to get bargain aluminum cups, please advise.

Tom

Pest

03-08-2007, 16:19

The bottom cut off a large catfood can might work.

Grinder

03-08-2007, 16:31

I tried it. Too small. It's the same diameter as the bottom. No room for a wick

Tom

zelph

03-08-2007, 18:22

Yeah Zelph,
I still read all your postings. Wouldn't miss them. I am looking forward to the goodies on the way... Thanks for that. I must say, they will have to be pretty good to best the performance of your StarLyte wedding tin stove. As a shake down prior to my thru attempt, I have done a bunch of freezer bag style meals with it and the performance has been fantastic. (I am just switching from a white gas stove to an alky stove so I was was previously a cook & simmer style guy so I have to adapt). If I wasn't going to be hiking for four months I would be doing what you are and 'playing with fire' as it is very addicting. Have fun and don't singe the eyebrows... doodah-man

:banana Whoa!!!!! Glad all is going well. (I like playing with fire also)

Here, take a look see at what might work even better than the aluminum cup. I'm tempted to transfer its contents into something else, yikes!!!!!! I do that too often. Somebody else try it:banana It's the right size diameter and looks like it's high/deep enough. It will also be able to have a lid, carry something else in there also, maybe some somethings:-?

The diameter of the container should be no smaller than 3 1/2 inches. All "Stovies" unite and search the shelves for alternate containers to be used and post them here for future reference, PLEASE and Thank You!!!

Here is the photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sheba.jpg) of the shoe polish container.

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Skidsteer

03-08-2007, 18:43

All "Stovies" unite and search the shelves for alternate containers to be used and post them here for future reference, PLEASE and Thank You!!!

The cup from a Svea Stove (http://www.rabbitusa.com/Marcas/Brunton/Files/Pictures/Start/StoveSvea.jpg) or a Coleman army stove (http://www.thailandoutdoor.com/OutdoorGear/StoveAndLantern/MilitaryStove/agmmilstove.jpg).

Pest

03-08-2007, 20:01

The cup from a Svea Stove (http://www.rabbitusa.com/Marcas/Brunton/Files/Pictures/Start/StoveSvea.jpg) or a Coleman army stove (http://www.thailandoutdoor.com/OutdoorGear/StoveAndLantern/MilitaryStove/agmmilstove.jpg).

Lots of little containers. My daughters friend saw all this and asked what it was in a rather surprised tone of voice.
http://bp0.blogger.com/_n-H9SSVlHFs/RfCxncbptfI/AAAAAAAAAOk/8Voj-RDbF9o/s1600-h/stoveshop.jpg

Skidsteer

03-08-2007, 20:15

Lots of little containers. My daughters friend saw all this and asked what it was in a rather surprised tone of voice.
http://bp0.blogger.com/_n-H9SSVlHFs/RfCxncbptfI/AAAAAAAAAOk/8Voj-RDbF9o/s1600-h/stoveshop.jpg

Sheesh! That gave me a scare. I thought for a minute that someone had broken into my house.

toddhiker

03-08-2007, 22:16

I want one!

zelph

03-09-2007, 17:52

I want one!

You Got Wick????

Last I heard you did, by Monday you should have one made.

Skids The cup from a Svea Stove (http://www.rabbitusa.com/Marcas/Brunton/Files/Pictures/Start/StoveSvea.jpg) or a Coleman army stove (http://www.thailandoutdoor.com/OutdoorGear/StoveAndLantern/MilitaryStove/agmmilstove.jpg).
Those are tooooo nice to cut up, it would hurt big time:)

Teblum I remember hearing about Big Lot's having aluminum cups on sale. Just went there, but couldn't find any.

Thats where I bought the one I used. But, be sure it's no smaller than 3 1/2" inches.

Skidsteer

03-09-2007, 18:27

Skids
Those are tooooo nice to cut up, it would hurt big time:)

You're probably right about that.

OK then, how about the small cup from a Coleman mess kit (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Cook%2520Gear/Cook%2520Sets/Coleman%2520Aluminum%2520Mess%2520Kit/Owner%2520Review%2520by%2520Liz%2520Neely/AllPieces.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Cook%2520Gear/Cook%2520Sets/Coleman%2520Aluminum%2520Mess%2520Kit/Owner%2520Review%2520by%2520Liz%2520Neely/&h=461&w=600&sz=41&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=egM5OkBCb41u9M:&tbnh=104&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcoleman%2Bmess%2Bkit%26gbv%3D2%26svnu m%3D10%26hl%3Den)? It weighs .85 oz. complete with the rim and handle so I imagine cutting it down would drop the weight to about .25 oz.

It measures exactly 3 1/2" inside diameter.

zelph

03-09-2007, 23:09

You're probably right about that.

OK then, how about the small cup from a Coleman mess kit (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Cook%2520Gear/Cook%2520Sets/Coleman%2520Aluminum%2520Mess%2520Kit/Owner%2520Review%2520by%2520Liz%2520Neely/AllPieces.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Cook%2520Gear/Cook%2520Sets/Coleman%2520Aluminum%2520Mess%2520Kit/Owner%2520Review%2520by%2520Liz%2520Neely/&h=461&w=600&sz=41&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=egM5OkBCb41u9M:&tbnh=104&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcoleman%2Bmess%2Bkit%26gbv%3D2%26svnu m%3D10%26hl%3Den)? It weighs .85 oz. complete with the rim and handle so I imagine cutting it down would drop the weight to about .25 oz.
It measures exactly 3 1/2" inside diameter.

I will buy one to make up a new stove using the black plumbers cloth for a wick to see how it works.

Thanks Skids!!!!!

Grinder

03-12-2007, 17:15

zelph

03-12-2007, 20:35

I made a bottom out of a 29 oz. tomato sauce can, measured 3 7/8 inches.

Put fiberglass wick in the space (about 2 thicknesses) added alcohol, 2 cups of water in the heineken pot and lit it. The flame pattern looked similar to zelph's, reaching up the side an inch (prox.)

10 minutes later, still no boil. it burned for about 12 to 13 minutes and never reached rolling boil.

Perhaps the stove container diameter is critical to attain Zelph's times. Or my wick folding and tucking is lacking??

Who knows? The SHADOW knows!

Miles of Smiles
Tom

I asked the SHADOW and he said the answer lies beyond the Inner Sanctum and through the Creaking Door.

Pass through this Creaking Door (http://www.cooltek.co.uk/exhaust_heat_wrap.htm)to find your answer.

The diameter should be between 3 1/2 and 3 5/8. Not much play there. The fiberglass to use is known by the Shadow. PM your mailing address and I'll send you what is needed behind the door if you don't have that kind. The stuff is pricey.

The fuel is probably getting lost on the bottom of the can and if you don't have the right wick material things go wrong.

Skids, I couldnt justify buying the coleman kit to get the cup:confused: The Asian or Hispanic store might have the exact one that need.

Doodah Man-----As soon as you test it, let everyone know the results. Put your fuel cup against the side of the Heineken can just above the wick and pour slowly, first the front then the side then the back and finally the other side. Even distribution of fuel around the can.

This stove has no potstand, just a burner that has a 3 1/2" base. Not tippy at all.

If enough hikers want one, I'll make some up. (toddhiker wants one)

toddhiker

03-12-2007, 22:42

Zelph,

Aside from the perrformance / boil time, the stability is what I really like.

With all the hikers out there trying to make Heine's work, I can't help but believe you have another winner on your hands!

Long live the BANANA!!!!!

doodah man

03-13-2007, 13:00

Doodah Man-----As soon as you test it, let everyone know the results. Put your fuel cup against the side of the Heineken can just above the wick and pour slowly, first the front then the side then the back and finally the other side. Even distribution of fuel around the can.

Zelph,
Will do... Test results to be posted as soon as I get them. By the way, do you need some more Heiny cans. I have a stockpile of a few dozen plus another couple dozen Foster's cans. I think the Heiny cans are 24 oz and the The Foster's cans are 25.5 oz. If you want some more, I can send some out... doodah-man

Kerosene

03-13-2007, 14:55

I'll sign up to drink the beer so I can provide a steady supply of cans! :jump

zelph

03-13-2007, 23:11

Skidsteer

03-13-2007, 23:14

doodah man

03-14-2007, 11:43

Yes!!!! I would very much like to have them All of the Heinekin as long as the graphics are on and we'll work out a deal. I think the Fosters are tad smaller in dia. right?

Kerosen, That's awful nice to offer such a service, when I run out of cans I'll send you a PM:D

Zelph, As to the diameter, both have the exact same bottom diameter, but the bulge in the middle part of the Heineken is bigger. The Foster's can is a fixed diameter for the whole length. The main reason I chose the Heiny over the Foster's is because it is easier to get my hand in there to clean up if I actually cook in the can (versus usual Freezer Bag style cooking). I guess that in theory the Heiny should be a bit stronger as the ridges on each side of the bulge would give it some extra rigidity. Most of my stock has the tops cut off cleanly with the safe-cut opener that leaves the support ring intact. I do have some with tops still on and I will probably get more with tops still on soon. (My golfing buddies all save their cans for me). Let me know what you want I will send a few Foster's and a bunch of Heineken's next time I head off to the post office. doodah-man

zelph

03-16-2007, 14:52

Zelph,
Will do... Test results to be posted as soon as I get them. By the way, do you need some more Heiny cans. I have a stockpile of a few dozen plus another couple dozen Foster's cans. I think the Heiny cans are 24 oz and the The Foster's cans are 25.5 oz. If you want some more, I can send some out... doodah-man

Doodah man---- I did more tests, instead of pouring down the side of the can, pour the fuel into the burner just like any other burner and then put the pot of water into the burner and then fire it up.

17ml of fuel will get you a rolling boil in 5 1/2 to 6 min. in the kitchen. 70 degree water to begin with, in the kitchen, no windscreen/heat reflector.

I'm going to install a bail type handle to lift it up and help pour the water out, I'm tired of steamed fingers when pouring.

I'm going to make some of these burners availabe next week in the Used Gear Department as a welcome to spring thing.

I'll make another posting showing the bail and give final weight.

Toddhiker-----You are right about the stability feature, it's awsome. And there is more: the 17ml of fuel won't spill out, it's absorbed by the wick. And there is more: no primer pan required, lights easily in cold weather. Another thing is: no potstand required !!!!!!!

:mad: There is one bad thing about it:::: All the flames go up the side of the pot. :banana :banana :banana

toddhiker

03-16-2007, 20:04

I'm going to make some of these burners availabe next week in the Used Gear Department as a welcome to spring thing.

I'll make another posting showing the bail and give final weight.

Toddhiker-----You are right about the stability feature, it's awsome. And there is more: the 17ml of fuel won't spill out, it's absorbed by the wick. And there is more: no primer pan required, lights easily in cold weather. Another thing is: no potstand required !!!!!!!

:mad: There is one bad thing about it:::: All the flames go up the side of the pot. :banana :banana :banana[/quote]

Zelph,

You 'da MAN!

zelph

03-17-2007, 10:00

Grinder

03-17-2007, 11:35

A plain brown envelope arrived in my mail box this morning.

Now I know who the SHADOW is and where he lives!!

Thanks, Zelph, for the mystery wick.

I'll let you know how it works after I find a stove base of the proper diameter.

Miles of Smiles
Tom

doodah man

03-17-2007, 16:34

Doodah Man-----As soon as you test it, let everyone know the results.

Zelph, got the stove (& extra goodies) yesterday. Thanks. First thing this morning, I fired it up... It was a calm 60 degrees out, and started with two cups of 60 degree water. Using 20 ml of yellow bottle heet and without a windscreen, had boiling water 6 minutes later. It worked about the same with either the Heineken pot or the Foster's pot. Pretty much a sweet setup... stable and efficient works for me... Got to go work on my taxes and get that done before I leave for my hike, so can't elaborate much more for now. doodah-man

Grinder

03-17-2007, 18:12

toddhiker

03-17-2007, 18:44

Ring of Fire it is!!!!

zelph

03-19-2007, 11:27

First test:
I used my cut down tomato can base , which is a little big (3 7/8") and the new wick material. got a boil in 7 or 8 minutes. <N.B. For reference, I call "boil" when the lid bounces. typically a minute or two after the first bubbles>. The flames were really too big, due to the extra space between the stove and the pot.

I scouted the ranch again and finally found an old mayonaise Jar top that was about right (3 1/2"). The wick and Heineken pot just fit in. I got a rolling boil of two cups of tap water in 6 minutes.

in both tests, I used a wind screen after the fire was burning well.

My minibull side burner boils in a bit under 11 minutes.

Conclusion:
The doodahman stove, with the zelph wick development has a boil time nearly twice as fast as other alcohol stoves I have made. Also, it is more stable, because the stove is wider than the pot and no height is involved.

Zelph; any tricks involved in JB welding the wick in place?

Thanks to all involved.

Miles of Smiles
Tom

Thats Fantastic Tom!!!!!!

I think the JB weld applied in four places around the circumfrence should work just fine.

I did two test burns this morning using Rubbing Alcohol of the 91 percent Isopropyl kind. It's a dual purpose fuel. Both test produced 7 min. boils. Water temp not checked prior to test. Interested only in cleanliness of burn.

It burned clean as a whistle, no soot/carbon. Now if teblum and doodah_man can perform the same test to verify my finding, would be great. I'll be trying different fuels latter this evening.

I added a stainless steel bail and attached the lid with a stainless ring. While holding onto the bail and pouring, the lid moves out of the way and kinda deflects the steam away from your hand. The ring helps keep the lid from getting lost, stepped on etc. During storage, half of the bail slides into the pot for compactness. The bail holes are reinforced with stainless eyelets. Here are some photos:

Photo one (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringfire001.jpg)

Photo two (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringfire002.jpg)

Photo three (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringfire004.jpg)

Photo four (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringfire003.jpg) color of pot is changing at hottest point of flame.

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Grinder

03-19-2007, 12:55

I have been using 91 % rubbing alcohol for months now. My pot has a little black build up on it, but I wouldn't call it soot. I just rubbed on it and my finger came away clean.

I still haven't found the perfect stove base. My antique miracle whip lid is a bit snug. When I add an ounce of alcohol, the stove overflows as things warm up. the alcohol spreads out and the flame goes too high until the spillage burns out.

I'm going to keep looking for an aluminum cup. My pocket rule is always with me. 3 and 1/2 inches is printed on my forehead. I will find one.

I also have a tin of mink oil somewhere. But I can't remember where I put it. I'm remodeling a bathroom and know where it used to be. (LOL).

Miles of Smiles

Tom

Grinder

03-19-2007, 15:47

zelph

03-21-2007, 18:22

I hate being blind. The mink oil tin was where it was supposed to be. I just couldn't see it in the shoe shine kit.

That shoepolish tin lid is the perfect size.

I'm heating water for tea as I type (gotta type fast, don't I. Only got 5 minutes)

Now, to get out on the trail and get some real world miles on the doo dah man pot, AKA Ring of Fire

Miles of Smiles

Tom

Me also Tom, Need to relax, get away.

This past Sunday my wife and I got away from the house for half day. State park for a picnic lunch, her idea, she says "bring along your new stove" :) We had MountainHouse Chicken and rice. Outside temp was 45 degrees, wind chill felt like freezing. Forgot my windscreen:( , wind was 5 to 10 mph. Attempted boiling twice, 1st failed 2nd boiled with little more fuel. The stove works really nice and easy, very secure footprint. Picnic table was my cooking platform. It was a sunny day, had a great time.

Here are the latest specs on the stove:

Burner weighs 34 grams/1.2 ounces

Pot weighs 37 grams/1.3 ounces

Windscreen weighs 14 grams/1/2 ounce

Max fuel capacity 20 ml. Just enough to boil water and remain absorbed to prevent spilling if overturned by accident.

Stove/pot combination is for boiling water to be used by freezer bagger cooks. Wire bail would make for difficult pot cleaning if used for direct method cooking.

I'm going to make one of these available in the used equipment forum tomorrow. Will put it at "Auction"

Photo one (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv001.jpg) Shows wick retainer band inplace, prevents wick from touching pot.

Photo two (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv002.jpg)

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Pest

03-21-2007, 20:24

Those are really nice. Where did you get the stainless steel for the bails? I've searched everywhere for stainless steel bail material.

Me also Tom, Need to relax, get away.

This past Sunday my wife and I got away from the house for half day. State park for a picnic lunch, her idea, she says "bring along your new stove" :) We had MountainHouse Chicken and rice. Outside temp was 45 degrees, wind chill felt like freezing. Forgot my windscreen:( , wind was 5 to 10 mph. Attempted boiling twice, 1st failed 2nd boiled with little more fuel. The stove works really nice and easy, very secure footprint. Picnic table was my cooking platform. It was a sunny day, had a great time.

Here are the latest specs on the stove:

Burner weighs 34 grams/1.2 ounces

Pot weighs 37 grams/1.3 ounces

Windscreen weighs 14 grams/1/2 ounce

Max fuel capacity 20 ml. Just enough to boil water and remain absorbed to prevent spilling if overturned by accident.

Stove/pot combination is for boiling water to be used by freezer bagger cooks. Wire bail would make for difficult pot cleaning if used for direct method cooking.

I'm going to make one of these available in the used equipment forum tomorrow. Will put it at "Auction"

Photo one (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv001.jpg) Shows wick retainer band inplace, prevents wick from touching pot.

Photo two (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv002.jpg)

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zelph

03-21-2007, 23:25

Those are really nice. Where did you get the stainless steel for the bails? I've searched everywhere for stainless steel bail material.

Ace Hardware store.

I made four pots and stoves. The pots are made from cans that were opened with a safety opener, contents emptied into another container and immediately washed. The pull tab has never been pulled, makes for a class "A" lid. Pots have original lids and match up nicely for an even fit when closed.

Pest

03-22-2007, 01:52

Yes I've made lids that way too but I like to cut the can down. I get quicker boil times with the can cut down.

Ace Hardware store.

I made four pots and stoves. The pots are made from cans that were opened with a safety opener, contents emptied into another container and immediately washed. The pull tab has never been pulled, makes for a class "A" lid. Pots have original lids and match up nicely for an even fit when closed.

SouthMark

03-22-2007, 11:53

Pest

03-22-2007, 13:53

It's another hot dry summer on the PCT.

On the PCT-L list they are dissing alcohol stoves as unstable, I think this stove is the answer to that problem. Someone besides me might want to go there and help to educate folks.

http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

Or better yet someone could design the most stable stove with the lowest flame just for fire prevention in the SoCal dessert.

zelph

03-22-2007, 21:32

I have been following this thread with great interest. I use a Fosters can for my cook pot but have been unhappy with cook times of just about every stove version (alcohol & esbit) I have tried. I started trying to build one of these. I tried the shoe polish can but could not get it to hold enough fuel. I used both a fiberglass wick and a Cooltek exhaust tape wick. 20ml of fuel would spill over the edges when the can was inserted. I found a can of herring (I think) at Big Lots. It looked perfect except it was 4" in diameter but only 1" in height. Made a wick from 3 thicknesses of Cooltek and an aluminum retainer band. It will boil 2 cups of water in 5 1/2 minutes, but it is too heavy and needs almost 1 oz of fuel which continues to burn for almost 12 minutes. When I try less fuel, it never boils and burns out at about 6 minutes. I have a friend of mine in the printing business saving me some Printers ink cans. They are alumiinum and 3 5/8' diameter. The cans are about 2 inches deep.

Southmark, I hav'nt tried the shoepolish can yet but teblum said the lid was just the right size. The wick should only stick up 1/8 of an inch or so. Look at this photo. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv001.jpg)As you found out too much wick and it burns out too fast and no boil. two thickness of cooltek should hold 15 to 17ml of fuel, if it does'nt add a little more till it holds it. Note!!! I have not used cooltek, if it is 1/8 thick it should work. Do this---wrap 2 thickness(3/4 inch high) around the base of the fosters, hold it so it won't unwrap while you take it off, now staple it with an office type stapler just to hold it together. Now put it back on the pot and put the pot in the center of the 4 inch can. Now pour in 17ml of fuel and swirl it around so it touches the wick and the wick should absorb all of it. Let me know how that works. Give me the frolicing banana if it works, the bird if it does'nt.(insert frolicking banana here)

Ask your printing industry friend what type of ink used on beer cans and what type of solvent will remove the top coat/sealer. Ask him to inquire for the entire doit youself crowd. It's interesting how we get others involved in our ventures. Tell him I said Thank You in advance. Do this----take him a clean cat food can and ask him to transfer one can of ink into it so you can have the ink can.(smilies are not working for me so here is this one=) )

Today 12:53PestIt's another hot dry summer on the PCT.

On the PCT-L list they are dissing alcohol stoves as unstable, I think this stove is the answer to that problem. Someone besides me might want to go there and help to educate folks.

http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

Or better yet someone could design the most stable stove with the lowest flame just for fire prevention in the SoCal dessert.

I'm going to work on that project next week =)

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a heineken stove has been put up for auction in the Used Equipment/gear forum. Auction ends Sat. 8:00 pm EST. Don't be out bid =)

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SouthMark

03-22-2007, 22:58

Thanks Zelph. I'm heading out for a weekend hike on the Pinhoti tomorrow morning but I will follow up on your suggestions when I return. My friend called me around noon today with an empty ink can. It seems to be almost perfect. It is aluminum, exactly 3 5/8" in diameter and about 3" deep. With a little jig I made, it was easy to cut down to 1" deep. With the Cooltek wick material, it started boiling 2 cups of water at 4 minutes and was at a rolling boil by 5 1/2 minutes. I actually have a number of friends who own commercial printing companies and I have already called them and requested that they save me all of their 1 pound ink cans so if anyone is interested let me know (they do not empty then fast though and will not transfer the ink to another container). Printing ink is not liquid but a paste about the consistency of peanut butter. I doubt that they can be much help with the removal of the print on the beer cans. That is a whole different animal than offset printing.

Skidsteer

03-22-2007, 23:14

SouthMark

03-22-2007, 23:20

Ayup. I'm definitely interested in the printing ink cans!

Ok Skidsteer. You are on the list. Just PM me or email me with your contact info. I do not no how many or how often I will get the cans. I have three different printers saving me cans.

zelph

03-24-2007, 10:45

[quote=doodah man;340865]Zelph, got the stove (& extra goodies) yesterday. Thanks. First thing this morning, I fired it up... It was a calm 60 degrees out, and started with two cups of 60 degree water. Using 20 ml of yellow bottle heet and without a windscreen, had boiling water 6 minutes later. It worked about the same with either the Heineken pot or the Foster's pot. Pretty much a sweet setup... stable and efficient works for me... Got to go work on my taxes and get that done before I leave for my hike, so can't elaborate much more for now. doodah-man

[quote=teblum;340896]First test:
I used my cut down tomato can base , which is a little big (3 7/8") and the new wick material. got a boil in 7 or 8 minutes. <N.B. For reference, I call "boil" when the lid bounces. typically a minute or two after the first bubbles>. The flames were really too big, due to the extra space between the stove and the pot.

I scouted the ranch again and finally found an old mayonaise Jar top that was about right (3 1/2"). The wick and Heineken pot just fit in. I got a rolling boil of two cups of tap water in 6 minutes.

in both tests, I used a wind screen after the fire was burning well.

My minibull side burner boils in a bit under 11 minutes.

Conclusion:
The doodahman stove, with the zelph wick development has a boil time nearly twice as fast as other alcohol stoves I have made. Also, it is more stable, because the stove is wider than the pot and no height is involved.

Thanks Zelph. I'm heading out for a weekend hike on the Pinhoti tomorrow morning but I will follow up on your suggestions when I return. My friend called me around noon today with an empty ink can. It seems to be almost perfect. It is aluminum, exactly 3 5/8" in diameter and about 3" deep. With a little jig I made, it was easy to cut down to 1" deep. With the Cooltek wick material, it started boiling 2 cups of water at 4 minutes and was at a rolling boil by 5 1/2 minutes. I actually have a number of friends who own commercial printing companies and I have already called them and requested that they save me all of their 1 pound ink cans so if anyone is interested let me know (they do not empty then fast though and will not transfer the ink to another container). Printing ink is not liquid but a paste about the consistency of peanut butter. I doubt that they can be much help with the removal of the print on the beer cans. That is a whole different animal than offset printing.

The above three quotes are from those that have made and tested the "Ring of Fire" burner. I listed these for a quick reference for those that may want to take part in the auction. Today I initiated a Patent Search to see if the burner is patentable. Next week I'll make some burners available, I see where I can tweek it a bit:) .

I'll also be making burners availabe for the more common Ti pots and mugs.

zelph

03-26-2007, 18:07

I did three test boils using a Big Blue can (Canadian Import). It has straight up walls like the Guiness. More flame to can contact compared to Heinekin.

Quite a difference between Heinekin and Big Blue.

Used 16 ml of 91% ISO alcohol.

Inside kitchen conditions

Two tests were at 4.5 min. per boil

One came in at 5 min.

Here are two photos:

Big Blue fast boil with iso (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv004.jpg)

Big Blue fast boil with iso (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv003.jpg)

NOTICE: No soot on can:)

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Skidsteer

03-26-2007, 18:14

Oh sure! Like we can't see the gas burner underneath! ;)

I assume a Foster's can would work as well?

zelph

03-26-2007, 22:10

Oh sure! Like we can't see the gas burner underneath! ;)

I assume a Foster's can would work as well?

I made a mistake:eek: , I should have said Foster's instead of Guiness:o

Hey Skids, being that you are the most trusted and capable engineer on this site how about I send one of these burners to you so you can test it? I don't think there are many who believe in the things that I'm saying here about this burner. Maybe you can come back with some confirming info.

Another little tweek in the design was to make the wick retainer with .003 stainless steel. The aluminum one did'nt have enough spring to it.

Skidsteer

03-26-2007, 23:02

Hey Skids, being that you are the most trusted and capable engineer on this site how about I send one of these burners to you so you can test it? I don't think there are many who believe in the things that I'm saying here about this burner. Maybe you can come back with some confirming info.

Another little tweek in the design was to make the wick retainer with .003 stainless steel. The aluminum one did'nt have enough spring to it.

HaHAHAHa!

Me? An engineer? Boy I thought I'd been called names before....:D

Seriously, I'd be happy to test it but you know we have real engineers like DWM, Two Speed, and I'm sure others on WB....

The concept makes sense to me and my only thought for improvement without testing is can the same result be obtained with a narrower can(like a Rockstar energy drink with screwtop), narrower/lighter burner(like a 3 1/4" catfood can?) In fact, I have the materials and just haven't built it yet. :o

Also I completely understand the bail you added to the Heinie but it still strikes me as akin to juggling brimstone to pour the water out of that sucker.

Love to try it, though.

zelph

03-27-2007, 10:35

Seriously, I'd be happy to test it but you know we have real engineers like DWM, Two Speed, and I'm sure others on WB....

The concept makes sense to me and my only thought for improvement without testing is can the same result be obtained with a narrower can(like a Rockstar energy drink with screwtop), narrower/lighter burner(like a 3 1/4" catfood can?) In fact, I have the materials and just haven't built it yet. :o

Also I completely understand the bail you added to the Heinie but it still strikes me as akin to juggling brimstone to pour the water out of that sucker.

Love to try it, though.

My original thread named the Whatchamacallit alcohol stove (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=257781&postcount=1), shows the stove made with a energy drink bottle made by Snapple (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/spookcamp034.jpg). I put that burner concept on the back burner to work on other ideas up until recently when I had an occasion to reflect back on it to see how it fit the Heineken can. One thing led to another and here we are. (additional photo showing flame pattern) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/spookcamp033.jpg)

I was doing test burns and the emptying of the boiling water kept being a concern of mine. My hand kept getting steamed. Was not able to hold onto the can with ease using pot holders etc. and wanting to be able to accurately pour water into a freezer bag of goodies. The lid never comes of the pot. We (man) have large hands, (woman) have small hands and the bail will certainly be an asset to them. The bail will surely help in picking up the straight walled Foster and Big Blue cans which have a tedency to give a little in the mid section of the can where it would be grabbed for pouring. These beer cans are definately light weight and make great pots. I remember recently someone saying to add a bail to their pot to help the situation so that is how the bail came about and it resolved my problem. Your recent photos show your Heineken wrapped with plumbers cloth as an aid in picking up the hot pot.

Skidsteer
we have real engineers like DWM, Two Speed,

I did'nt recall them using the Heineken pot as much as you have and don't remember them doing much experimenting with different stoves. I like your determination and quality craftsmanship. But I've been known to make mistakes. If they are interested in testing and reporting back I will gladly send them one to test. DWM and Two Speed, I'd like the two of you to test this stove combination also. If interested send me a PM with mailing instructions. Thanks in advance.

My wife is so impressed with this stove/pot setup that she asked me to make one for her as a wedding anniversary gift. She wants the base of the burner to be made of stainless steel. She wants to keep it in her car so it will be readily available for spur of the moment roadside luncheons on Sunday afternoon drives:D

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Skidsteer

03-27-2007, 13:43

Dances with Mice

03-27-2007, 13:52

Thx for the very kind offer, Zelph, but you really don't need engineers; all you need are gear testers. Somebody willing to trial the stove & report back on how it operates.

I can't use a Heineken can stove. Don't get me wrong: I'm not opposed to the idea at all. But I can't use one.

My wife gave me a titanium kettle for my birthday.

Grinder

03-27-2007, 16:06

I hate to say it,but I dislike the bail idea because it fouls up packing for me.

I have no problem with H.O.I's bandana technique.
I carry my kerchiefs folded to 4 ply. Two more folds and you have 16 plies and about 1 inch width.
Loop it around the heineken pot , pinch a bit and lift. the two cup water level is at least 1 1/2 inch below the top. Pouring is easy

You have to remove the wind screen, it is adviseable to wait until the fire goes out. Once you are used to the "boil fuel amount' required, this is no problem.

If you work fast, you can remove the pot while the fire still burns. I'd practice a bit before it mattered. It would get a bit dicey if the bandana started to burn.

I just don't see the added complexity being worth the gain.

Miles of Smiles
Tom

zelph

03-27-2007, 22:25

Zelph I've got an idea for a pot lifter that might work on cans and such. Basically a small catchpole (http://nwco.net/0530-StepThreeNonlethalToolsAndTechniques/images/5-1-catchpole.gif) design.

Picture a stick, just big enough to grip, with a Y at the end curved to roughly match the contour of a can. Attach a roll or braid of fiberglass to one side of the Y, loop to the front and thread back through a hole in the other side of the Y.

Leave extra so you can make a large loop, slide it over the top of the can, tighten and hold with one hand to lift the pot and pour.

You've got a lot of experience with fiberglass so I thought I'd mention it to you for what it's worth. I'll bet you could improve on the idea even.

I know of the exact thing to use for it. It's Y shaped. fits in the hand nicely, made of heat resistant plastic, and has a 3 1/2 inch radius in the Y portion. I'll see if I can find one locally and make a pot lifter out of it and show it to all. It'll be a surprise.

DWM, I'm looking for a used snow peak 600 if you got one laying around. It's been said the base is around 3 1/2 inches, just right for this type/size burner. I can't find the xtra bucks to buy new just for the sake of stove science.:)

Teblum---The bail on the ones I made slide inside the pot, it stays out of the way for packing unless you're packing something inside the pot. You're right about using the correct amount of fuel. Having the bail on the pot helps alot with removeing while the burner is still having a flame going. Latent fuel/fumes are there if you don't wait till flame out. The bail helps lift it straight up and can alow for a pause to use up remaining flames or pull it up and towards yourself and let the flames go straight up behind the pot. I'll be sure to include that info in the instruction sheet.

I'm going to make a few energy drink stoves. I measured how much water they hold and reviewed the results from the original thread. They hold two cups of water. I have aluminum containers that will make good burners. Cat food cans are a tad larger than I want but will probably work.

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Skidsteer

03-27-2007, 22:31

If you like, Zelph, I'll send you a Rockstar can with threaded cap. They're hard to come by. If you remove the gasket from the lid, it should be good to go.

SouthMark

03-27-2007, 22:46

Southmark, I hav'nt tried the shoepolish can yet but teblum said the lid was just the right size. The wick should only stick up 1/8 of an inch or so. Look at this photo. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv001.jpg)As you found out too much wick and it burns out too fast and no boil. two thickness of cooltek should hold 15 to 17ml of fuel, if it does'nt add a little more till it holds it. Note!!! I have not used cooltek, if it is 1/8 thick it should work. Do this---wrap 2 thickness(3/4 inch high) around the base of the fosters, hold it so it won't unwrap while you take it off, now staple it with an office type stapler just to hold it together. Now put it back on the pot and put the pot in the center of the 4 inch can. Now pour in 17ml of fuel and swirl it around so it touches the wick and the wick should absorb all of it. Let me know how that works. Give me the frolicing banana if it works, the bird if it does'nt.(insert frolicking banana here)

Ask your printing industry friend what type of ink used on beer cans and what type of solvent will remove the top coat/sealer. Ask him to inquire for the entire doit youself crowd. It's interesting how we get others involved in our ventures. Tell him I said Thank You in advance. Do this----take him a clean cat food can and ask him to transfer one can of ink into it so you can have the ink can.(smilies are not working for me so here is this one=) )

I'm going to work on that project next week =)

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a heineken stove has been put up for auction in the Used Equipment/gear forum. Auction ends Sat. 8:00 pm EST. Don't be out bid =)

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Zelph, it worked but I think that the printing ink can is really a little too large in diameter to work best with the Fosters can. It worked fine on my weekend hike (better than any other stove I have tried) but still too much fuel. I came back and made one from the shoe polish can. I adjusted the wick like you said and it brought 2 cups of water to a rolling boil in 6 minutes using 20ml of fuel and burned for 9 minutes. The printing ink can stove required a full ounce of fuel no matter what I did to the wick.

Grinder

03-27-2007, 22:50

[quote=zelph;345900]I
Teblum---The bail on the ones I made slide inside the pot, it stays out of the way for packing unless you're packing something inside the pot.
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In my system, the fuel, in a 8 oz flip lid shampoo bottle and the rolled up wind screen go inside the pot, The whole system stores in the Heineken pot plus two or three inches in height.

The doo dah man design made it more stable and eliminated the pot holder.

I'm a happy camper,
Tom

zelph

03-28-2007, 11:51

I did some checking how my fuel bottle and windscreen would fit.

Also started making an anniversary special for my wife using a stainless steel burner bottom.

Photo one (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv009.jpg) stainless cup before cutting

Photo two (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv010.jpg)cup after cutting

Photo three (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv011.jpg) pot inside stainless burner base

Photo four (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv019.jpg) Fosters in burner, I think Ill use the fosters for anniversary special

Photo five (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv012.jpg) 8 ounce fuel bottle and windscreen

Photo six (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv013.jpg) windscreen wrapped around fuel bottle

Photo seven (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv014.jpg) fuel bottle and windscreen inside pot showing bail wire location with room to spare.

Photo eight (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv015.jpg) Windscreen and fuel bottle fit better inside Fosters pot

Photo nine (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv017.jpg) Lid almost closes all the way with windscreen and fuel bottle inside.

Photo ten (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv018.jpg) Height comparison between Heinekin and Fosters

I'll be making some with the Foster's cans.

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Skidsteer

03-28-2007, 17:16

Where did you get the fuel bottle?

Ridgerunner50

03-28-2007, 17:54

Zelph, I have followed your links for some time now and love the idea of your "side" burner and your Heine pot modifications. I went to WallyWorld for a safty can opener so I could get that perfect fitting lid but after spending $13, it just mangled the rim of the can. Like you, the brew went down the drain(too harsh for my taste). I found a different model safty cutter at Kroger that cut the lid perfect. I have found that the yellow plastic lid from a can of Hersheys Syrup fits the Heiniken can perfectly for storage purposes.;)
I have searched high and low for the right size stove material and have a couple items to try but am having a hard time locating the wick material. Will any Exhaust Wrap work like the Cooltek? Also, do you just staple your retaining ring to the circumference size you need ? I am off to Ace to look for the bail wire and rings. Keep tinkering, we all love it.
Here is a thought for you. Do you think that a very shallow but wide pot would boil quickly with a bottom burner than say a regular proportioned size pot? I remember seeing a one cup backpackers teakettle on ebay that looked like a pancake with a whistler spout and handle and thought that it
would cook quickly as shallow as it was. Just some fuel for thought. :-?

zelph

03-28-2007, 21:23

Where did you get the fuel bottle?

I bought a dozen at a local industrial discount/liquidator store(the store is an awsome "guy store"). Maybe this Friday I'll take some photos inside the store for the fun of it. Its only open on Fridays and Saturdays.

Ridgerunner50Zelph, I have followed your links for some time now and love the idea of your "side" burner and your Heine pot modifications. I went to WallyWorld for a safty can opener so I could get that perfect fitting lid but after spending $13, it just mangled the rim of the can. Like you, the brew went down the drain(too harsh for my taste). I found a different model safty cutter at Kroger that cut the lid perfect. I have found that the yellow plastic lid from a can of Hersheys Syrup fits the Heiniken can perfectly for storage purposes.;)
I have searched high and low for the right size stove material and have a couple items to try but am having a hard time locating the wick material. Will any Exhaust Wrap work like the Cooltek? Also, do you just staple your retaining ring to the circumference size you need ? I am off to Ace to look for the bail wire and rings. Keep tinkering, we all love it.
Here is a thought for you. Do you think that a very shallow but wide pot would boil quickly with a bottom burner than say a regular proportioned size pot? I remember seeing a one cup backpackers teakettle on ebay that looked like a pancake with a whistler spout and handle and thought that it
would cook quickly as shallow as it was. Just some fuel for thought. :-?

I just lost a lengthly reply to your post when I hit the "Preview Post". Pop up said I had more Smilies than alloted. Hit the back button and all was lost.:( . OOOhhh that burns me

First ? : yes

Second ? : No, will show photo tomorrow

Third ? : Yes

More tomorrow

Lanthar Mandragoran

03-29-2007, 12:13

DWM, I'm looking for a used snow peak 600 if you got one laying around. It's been said the base is around 3 1/2 inches, just right for this type/size burner. I can't find the xtra bucks to buy new just for the sake of stove science.:)

I can't let you have mine:eek:, but I'll try to remember to measure the base when I get home. 3.5 in sounds about right... seems to me it's just a tiny bik wider than the henie... I think the henie just barely does not fit inside the SP600.

zelph

03-29-2007, 21:57

I

I just lost a lengthly reply to your post when I hit the "Preview Post". Pop up said I had more Smilies than alloted. Hit the back button and all was lost.:( . OOOhhh that burns me

First ? : yes

Second ? : No, will show photo tomorrow

Third ? : Yes

More tomorrow

Here's the photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv029.jpg)of the joint that holds the wick retainer.

RockStar

03-29-2007, 22:43

Zelph, I want one with the pot. Its too freakin cute!

Ridgerunner50

03-30-2007, 07:12

Skidsteer

03-30-2007, 07:21

Zelph, Looks like you pop rivit retaining the ring in place? I can't wait to get my wick to try it out. The only downside I see is that it does not store inside the pot. I'm still looking for that perfect container.

Looks like the whole kit could be turned upside down and fit into a medium Twist n' Loc container (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15091&catid=favorites), giving you cozy, cup, and storage for your cooking stuff.

Skidsteer

03-30-2007, 07:40

Looks like the whole kit could be turned upside down and fit into a medium Twist n' Loc container (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15091&catid=favorites), giving you cozy, cup, and storage for your cooking stuff.

Scratch that. An unchopped Heinie pot would be too tall.

zelph

03-30-2007, 09:33

Zelph, I want one with the pot. Its too freakin cute!

I'll be glad to make one up for you. Would you like a Foster's or a Heineken? Send me a PM.

LeeF, Yours wil be put in the mail today.

Skidds, would you like a Heinekin or Foster's?

Ridgerunner, I pop riveted the wick in two places to the aluminum base. The stainless retainer is now obsolete as the retainer but will be included as the wick protector. It also makes sure the pot slides out easily, we don't want the burner sticking to the bottom of the pot. I want to point out here that there tends to be a small amount of fuel left burning after a boil is achieved, when the pot is lifted before the flame goes out, the remaining vapors/fuel will flame up around the pot. The pot should be brought towards the operator so the flame goes behind the pot and away from the operator/cook. Best thing to do is wait till flames are out before lifting pot, but as we know its hard to tell when flames out. ISO has little yellow/orange flickers to it.

RigdgerunnerDo you think that a very shallow but wide pot would boil quickly with a bottom burner than say a regular proportioned size pot?

My favorite pot is a 5 1/4 inch X 2 inch high, aluminum made by Mirro(scouting favorite) has a bail handle. Great invention that bail handle, works for me;) . That flat tea pot you mentioned sounds interesting, got a link toit? Another thing, my old safe opener will open Heinekens but not Foster's, had to buy a new Kmart model for the Foster's. ($11.00)

Lanthar, I tried to find the 600 locally without any luck. Would appreciate it if you could get the measurement of the base at a point 3/4 inch from the bottom. Use a caliper if you have one or a make it yourself one, we are in the appropriate forum:)

Ewker

03-30-2007, 09:39

Ridgerunner50

03-30-2007, 18:24

Zelph, Wish I could find the link to the kettle. It was on ebay about 6 mo. ago. If i had the number, it might still be viewable but I had a hard drive crash and burn a couple mo. ago and lost alot of goodies:mad: I had never seen a kettle like it before or since. It was an aluminum one cup kettle and shaped like a cinnamon bun with a spout and whistler and a handle. Wish I would have copied the pic. My $13 safety can opener is going back to WallyWorld tonight as the $7 Kroger opener works like a charm on the Heiniken cans.

Skidsteer

03-30-2007, 20:31

Skidds, would you like a Heinekin or Foster's?

Heineken, please. And thanks!

zelph

03-31-2007, 11:20

Zelph, Wish I could find the link to the kettle. It was on ebay about 6 mo. ago. If i had the number, it might still be viewable My $13 safety can opener is going back to WallyWorld tonight as the $7 Kroger opener works like a charm on the Heiniken cans.

I'm going to search ebay from time to time to see if I can find one like it.

SkidsteerQuote:
Originally Posted by Zelph
Skidds, would you like a Heinekin or Foster's?

Heineken, please. And thanks!

I put it in the mail yesterday.

This idea came to me in the twilyte hours:

Put a taller wick protector in the burner and use a small teflon coated fry pan to fry up some eggs for breakfast when I get up. I used to dream about girls, now it's stoves:-? , I think it's menopause:cool:

Photo one (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv031.jpg) Fried two eggs over easy with no problem (2 times)

Photo two (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv034.jpg) Boiled water in my favorite pot no problem.

Photo three (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv035.jpg) Foster's can fits inside of insert.

Photo four (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv036.jpg)The insert

Photo five (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv037.jpg) Recent purchase, made of aluminum, 2 cup capacity, weighs same as Kmart grease pot, is one of four pots that stack on top of one another for carrying food, Asian origin, good for cooking rice:sun has character. Anyone know what the plating might be that makes it so shiny?

Lanthar Mandragoran

03-31-2007, 16:30

Hey Zelph,

FYI - I checked my SP600... bang-on 3.5" diameter across the bottom.

If I could figure out what I did with my Heine-cans I'd take a comparative pic... but I can't find 'em.

Ridgerunner50

03-31-2007, 20:46

Zelph, Good luck finding a kettle like the one I mentioned. I am on ebay almost daily and that was the first one i had ever seen like it. If I see one, I will send you the link. Question regarding you wick: Is it folded in half or is it just one layer thick? I found a survival candle in a tin at Gander mountain that is just a smidge over 3 1/2" and a little over and inch tall. I am waiting for my ebay wick to arrive to get the show on the road.:)

zelph

04-02-2007, 18:06

I found this container in the canning dept. of an Ace Hardware store.

It weighs 80 g = 2.82191 oz Made of plastic and has screw on lid.

Both Foster's and Heineken cans fit(one at a time) along with the burner. Room left for additional items also.

Photo one (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv038.jpg)

Photo two (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv039.jpg)

Photo three (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinekinstv040.jpg)

Here's a link to it (http://mrswages.stores.yahoo.net/mrswagpiclim.html)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

LeeF

04-02-2007, 23:23

Zelph,
I received the stove today and it is in a word INCREDIBLE! Your description is 100% accurate. I boiled two cups of 38 degree water in 4.5 minutes with 16 ml of 91% iso alcohol. I poured the fuel into the cup, rotated it around a few times, and the alcohol was completely absorbed into the wick. No way to spill the fuel. There is no soot on the can and handling the hot water was easy with the handle.

Guys what Zelph isn't telling you is just how professional his workmanship is. This thing looks like it was made on a CNC machine. There are none of the typical "handmade" signs. The fuel bottle was a great surprise bonus. If you are thinking of buying one of these from Zelph or making one yourself stop waiting and get to it.

LeeF

04-04-2007, 21:55

Skidsteer

04-04-2007, 22:17

Pest

04-05-2007, 12:09

RockStar

04-05-2007, 13:16

Zelph I found a Heine at a local stop and stab...was so excited...then the let down...only 16 oz can...BOOO ALABAMA!

SouthMark

04-05-2007, 14:24

Zelph I found a Heine at a local stop and stab...was so excited...then the let down...only 16 oz can...BOOO ALABAMA!

Unfortunately, that's an Alabama alcohol law (beer cannot be sold in sizes larger than 16 oz). I ran into the same problem trying to find a 24 oz can.

zelph

04-05-2007, 15:51

I think I've found another possible container for the entire stove. Clorox sells a cylinder with 75 wet disinfecting wipes; the empty container is a perfect fit for the burner and pot. I'll weigh it as soon as its empty.I've got to go now, the wife said as long as I'm in the kitchen holding a container of wipes as I might as well get busy cleaning

Hey LeeF, I waited till my wife was out of the house, removed the few wipes remaining and then weighed the container and took a photo. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/stilettostove.jpg)

Weighs 94.5 grams

Has snap-on lid and it has more room in it than the other. (I replaced the remaining wipes before she returned)

10 min. later she asked if I used a wipe and left the lid open. I said yes dear, sorry. I'm not young enough to remember everthing like SouthMark;)

These containers feel pretty durable, I suspect boiling water poured into them would not have a negative affect.

RockStarZelph I found a Heine at a local stop and stab...was so excited...then the let down...only 16 oz can...BOOO ALABAMA!Today 11:09

The small ones good enough for a cup-0-tea, think positive:) I'll make a stove to fit it:D

Dances with Mice

04-05-2007, 18:57

These containers feel pretty durable, I suspect boiling water poured into them would not have a negative affect.Flip it over and look at the bottom. There's a recycling symbol. What does it say?

If it's HDPE or LDPE (numbers 2 and 4 inside the three arrow recycling symbol) it'll eventually warp if you pour boiling water into it. Maybe not the first or second time, but eventually. It's made out of polyethylene.

If it's PETE or PP (numbers 1 and 5) then it's either polyester or polypropylene. Both can stand boiling water.

It's probably one of those four. But if it's not then it'll stand up to boiling temps even better.

Pest

04-06-2007, 11:52

I don't think I would want to eat out of the clorox one but the pickling lime one would be ok.. I bet they won't take boiling water though. How much weight is saved when using a Henie can with one of those over the weight of using a grease pot with a foil lid?

I've been keeping my Heineken cookset in my daypack/diaperbag and it it's getting dented along the rim and I'm having trouble pulling the dents out. I need to stretch it over something to smooth it out.

Pest

04-06-2007, 11:54

Dances with Mice

04-06-2007, 15:10

I've been keeping my Heineken cookset in my daypack/diaperbag and it it's getting dented along the rim and I'm having trouble pulling the dents out. I need to stretch it over something to smooth it out.Wrong answer. You just need to drink another beer.

There are certain advantages to planned obsolescence.

Pest

04-07-2007, 01:09

You mean my husband has to drink another beer :) I don't like Hieneken.

Repeat

04-15-2007, 09:53

Skidsteer

04-15-2007, 12:39

Here are a couple of new stoves I built based on this post and help from a friend. The one on the right is made from a candle tin purchased from Michaels--package of 4. It fits the bottom of the Hinekin pot perfectly. Pretty stable and more efficient than the stove with the wick.
Repeat

A Supercat for Heineken pots that actually looks like it'll hold up to some rough use. Very nice.

What diameter holes did you punch? 3/16"?

Repeat

04-15-2007, 22:48

Good Evening,
The holes on the candle tin are 1/8 inch. The tin is very sturdy. I was using a red bull stove, but had to be careful because it is somewhat fragile. The candle tin requires 3 soda capfuls of fuel including a little to prime. This brings 2 cups of water to a rolling boil in about 6 or 7 minutes. The wick stove is very sturdy and stable. In my tests the 3 caps of alcohol just barely caused a boil of 2 cups of water with the wick stove. I do like some aspects of this stove, it just requires a little more fuel. I am sure that with some tinkering with the wick I could imporve the efficiency, but the candle tin stove is so simple and sturdy as well as being pretty stable, I will probably stick with it.

zelph

04-17-2007, 15:44

Here are a couple of new stoves I built based on this post and help from a friend. The one on the right is made from a candle tin purchased from Michaels--package of 4. It fits the bottom of the Hinekin pot perfectly. Pretty stable and more efficient than the stove with the wick.
Repeat

Very well done, In the winter/cold weather use the wick one, you'll have no problem lighting it. Let us know how the candle tin one works in cool weather. Again, very well done stovie.

zelph

04-18-2007, 14:25

Here are a couple of new stoves I built based on this post and help from a friend. The one on the right is made from a candle tin purchased from Michaels--package of 4. It fits the bottom of the Hinekin pot perfectly. Pretty stable and more efficient than the stove with the wick.
Repeat

Repeat, have you tried using Isopropyl 91 as your fuel? If not, can you try it and let us know how that works in the candle tin supercat. It might work like the wick one. Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained

zelph

04-19-2007, 13:23

I received a confirmation from UPS that a case of containers has left Oregon and is on its way.

When It arrives I'd like to start producing the "Ring of Fire" stoves to make them availlable to everyone that has shown an interest in them.

I will be shipping International for those that have inquired.

Those that already have the stove and have at least bench tested it, I ask that you would evaluate it and post your likes and dislikes. Based on your feedback information I'll be able make adjustments if necessary.

Thank You

Ewker

04-19-2007, 13:41

Zelph,

clean out your PM box

Ring of Fire??? is that a new stove...I can only imagine :-?

zelph

04-19-2007, 13:53

Zelph,

clean out your PM box

Ring of Fire??? is that a new stove...I can only imagine :-?

It has been known by many names:)

Send me some mail, I'm outside the box but there's room for PM's

Ewker

04-19-2007, 15:44

PM sent to ya

zelph

04-19-2007, 17:22

Ewker, message sent.

I received a confirmation from UPS that a case of containers has left Oregon and is on its way.

When It arrives I'd like to start producing the "Ring of Fire" stoves to make them availlable to everyone that has shown an interest in them.

I will be shipping International for those that have inquired.

Those that already have the stove and have at least bench tested it, I ask that you would evaluate it and post your likes and dislikes. Based on your feedback information I'll be able make adjustments if necessary.

Thank You

In regards to this previous post, i have received a negative result of outside testing. I encourage all feedback, negative and positive. Those of you that have received a stove that included a windscreen should be able to get positive results outside in field tests. My tests have been positive. I will send out one of my windscreens to the one that has already helped by giving feedback.

As most everyone knows, windscreens are a vital necessity for all stoves. Guard that precious heat. A windscreen will be included with stoves that I produce.

If anyone has any questions regarding availability of stoves, please send a PM.

Skidsteer

04-19-2007, 18:05

Those that already have the stove and have at least bench tested it, I ask that you would evaluate it and post your likes and dislikes. Based on your feedback information I'll be able make adjustments if necessary

.................................................. ..................

See below....

Skidsteer

04-19-2007, 18:09

Here you go, Zelph....

Ring of Fire bench test

This kit was sent to me by Zelph and consists of a burner and Heineken pot.

Description of burner:

Weight- 1.35 oz.
Outside diameter- 3 ¾”
Inside diameter- 3 3/8”
Height- 13/16”

The stove is constructed of stainless steel and fiberglass. An inner retaining ring holds a fiberglass wick against the outer wall of the burner cup. The cookpot rests inside the burner for cooking.

Description of Heineken pot:

Weight- 1.35 oz

The pot is an unchopped 24 oz Heineken can. The top of the can was removed intact and serves as a tight fitting lid for the pot. The rim of the can is intact.

Zelph has installed a stainless steel bail at the top of the pot through reinforced grommets. The lid also has an attachment point to the pot with a small S.S. clasp. When the pot is lifted, the bail is configured so that it pops the lid up about ¼” making pouring boiling water a breeze.

Boil tests*:

I conducted 15 boil tests using 2 cups of water at tap temperature. The stove requires 20 ml of denatured or 91% isopropyl alcohol to bring two cups of water to a boil and hold it at a boil for one minute or more.

Average boil for 20 ml was 5:30 with a continuing boil until flameout at an average of 7:12.

Average boil time for 30 ml was 5:39 with a continuing boil until flameout at an average of 9:00.

*These are bench tests only. No windscreen was used.

What I like:

-Stability. Most stable setup for a Heineken pot I’ve ever used.
-Consistency. The boil times for any given volume of fuel were within a second or two of each other.
-The “Ring of Fire” does not leave a ring of fire on wood surfaces. The main combustion and heat seems to take place at the top of the wick. I was even able to hold it in my hand while lit(please don’t try this; I’m a kook). The addition of a windscreen may alter this, however.
-The bail/lid system on the pot is a truly remarkable example of design/craftsmanship.

What could be better:

-It could be made lighter with aluminum with no sacrifice of stability
-I sure would like to see a boil using 15 ml of fuel.
-Burner doesn’t fit in the pot for storage(a personal eccentricity)

Summary:

I really like the stability of the system and think that is it’s major advantage, particularly to folks that have been reluctant to try Heineken pots in the past. I’ve talked with Zelph a bit about various aspects of the materials and design of the burner and feel confident in looking forward to the improvements he will make in the future.

The pot itself is a work of art and I wouldn’t change much about it.

zelph

04-30-2007, 20:57

I switched from aluminum to a container made with Titanium Nitride and steel. They identify it as a composit. If it contains Ti, it's gota be great stuff:rolleyes: . Supplier had 1 case of a hundred containers, no lids. Lids had to come from a differnt source, no TiN.:mad:

Stove now weighs 2 ounces with lid.

Raised the wick retainer band to accomadate the use of Snow Peak 600 mug and an aluminum mug that I originally used to make the burner base. Thos two containers are under test and will post details in the future.

I'll have some listed in the Used Gear Forum tomorrow.

First photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire006.jpg)

Second photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire008.jpg)

Third photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire009.jpg)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Lanthar Mandragoran

05-01-2007, 10:15

The Cheat

05-01-2007, 11:40

Resealable 23.5 oz cans:

http://www.joltenergy.com/Fridge/tabid/80/Default.aspx

zelph

05-01-2007, 13:12

Nice, Zelph. Hey, do me a favor and PM me when you post those. Assuming you take Paypal, I'll probably take one (I always like new toys for my beloved SP600...) - but there's a good chance I'll forget to check the Used Gear forum.

Your beloved SP600, I like that!!!! I'll PM you when they are listed.

The Cheat!!!!! I'll see if I can find them locally. Skidds sent me one of these rare Rockstar cans that look like the Jolt cans, maybe they are the same size.

The Ring of Fire stove fits RockStar (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire.jpg) the smaller version(original size)

Skidsteer

05-01-2007, 18:03

Resealable 23.5 oz cans:

http://www.joltenergy.com/Fridge/tabid/80/Default.aspx

Your beloved SP600, I like that!!!! I'll PM you when they are listed.

The Cheat!!!!! I'll see if I can find them locally. Skidds sent me one of these rare Rockstar cans that look like the Jolt cans, maybe they are the same size.

The Ring of Fire stove fits RockStar (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire.jpg) the smaller version(original size)

The Jolt cans look like an exact match for the Rockstar cans.

zelph

05-01-2007, 21:09

The Jolt cans look like an exact match for the Rockstar cans.

Their site says 24 ounce, same as the "Rockstar" great!!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've listed some stoves in the Gear for Sale forum for those that want a more stable Heinekin Pot stove.

Let me know what everyone thinks of the price and any ideas for marketing them.

zelph

05-07-2007, 14:26

The Jolt cans look like an exact match for the Rockstar cans.

I put your Rockstar to some tests.

2 cups water @ 70 degrees

18ml of Iso 91 alcohol (no soot)

water boiled in 6 min. average for three test burns.

Stove is made of aluminum and fiberglass wick. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire.jpg)

Combined weight of stove and Rockstar pot is 2 ounces. The configuration of these two components may fit the needs of someone wanting a slimline stove. I know this is a bassackwards combination, the pot fits in the stove and all the flames go up the sides. It goes against all stove rules but it seems to be working. Just 2 ounces for pot and stove combined.

Stove does'nt absorb all fuel. Less wick, means less overall weight.

Skidds, and anyone else chime in here and start a discussion on why it is that soot in not forming on the sides of the pot. We need an answer to this question. Most everywhere you read, isopropyl alcohol is dirty fuel.

toddhiker

05-07-2007, 21:24

I put your Rockstar to some tests.

2 cups water @ 70 degrees

18ml of Iso 91 alcohol (no soot)

water boiled in 6 min. average for three test burns.

Stove is made of aluminum and fiberglass wick. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire.jpg)

Combined weight of stove and Rockstar pot is 2 ounces. The configuration of these two components may fit the needs of someone wanting a slimline stove. I know this is a bassackwards combination, the pot fits in the stove and all the flames go up the sides. It goes against all stove rules but it seems to be working. Just 2 ounces for pot and stove combined.

Stove does'nt absorb all fuel. Less wick, means less overall weight.

Skidds, and anyone else chime in here and start a discussion on why it is that soot in not forming on the sides of the pot. We need an answer to this question. Most everywhere you read, isopropyl alcohol is dirty fuel.

Zelph,
ISO91 doesn't produce soot like "regular" (ie: 70) ISO.

Toddhiker

zelph

05-08-2007, 10:33

Zelph,
ISO91 doesn't produce soot like "regular" (ie: 70) ISO.

Toddhiker

Here are photos of a test burn of Iso91 that I did this morning using a "StarLyte" stove.

Pot before (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire029.jpg)

Pot after 7 min. burn time (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire032.jpg)

Stove with pot being heated for seven min. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire031.jpg)

In the past I have had the same results using Iso91 under this type of use.

Why is there no soot on the Heineken pot using the "Ring of Fire" I invoke the wisdom of the enginerds and of course Sgt Rock fits in there also.

sum41punk91

05-08-2007, 14:24

the pollutants are going upwards on the heineken pot, when you are putting pot OVER a fire the pollutants just run right up into the pot

Skidsteer

05-08-2007, 17:43

the pollutants are going upwards on the heineken pot, when you are putting pot OVER a fire the pollutants just run right up into the pot

Here are photos of a test burn of Iso91 that I did this morning using a "StarLyte" stove.

Pot before (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire029.jpg)

Pot after 7 min. burn time (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire032.jpg)

Stove with pot being heated for seven min. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire031.jpg)

In the past I have had the same results using Iso91 under this type of use.

Why is there no soot on the Heineken pot using the "Ring of Fire" I invoke the wisdom of the enginerds and of course Sgt Rock fits in there also.

All of the combustion is on the outside of the pot with the Doodah. I had a bit of discoloration using Iso 91 but nothing like usual. Zelph, have you tried Iso with a windscreen wrapped around it?

I bet you'll see more sooting if you do.

zelph

05-09-2007, 12:33

All of the combustion is on the outside of the pot with the Doodah. I had a bit of discoloration using Iso 91 but nothing like usual. Zelph, have you tried Iso with a windscreen wrapped around it?

I bet you'll see more sooting if you do.

Hav'nt tried the windscreen Iso combination but I feel you are right about more sooting. Over heating the fuel prior to burn and wind currents comming through the screen holes(if too close to the burner) cause turbulance.

Yesterday was a good day to tinker with the soot situation. I spent the morning in a State Nature Perserve. It's name is Plume Grove. A grove of trees that never has been timbered or grazed. Was able to do some quality thinking. Stoves were part of my thoughts.:rolleyes: I came up with an idea regarding soot formation. When I returned home I reconfigured some wick material around a 24 ounce "Big Blue" beer can. Tried several ways of testing. The fuel I chose was "Pure Paraffin Oil" used for liquid candles and lamps. I've tested it in the past so I new it burned dirty in alcohol stoves.

Research showed that liquid candles burn best under no breeze conditions. They like it to be as calm as can be had. Oil lamps burn best with trimmed wicks and at a very low wick height.

My first test formed soot on the side of the can in certain areas. I noted the inconsistancy of the wick in those certain areas. I reconfigured the wick to duplicate the areas that no soot formed.

This was the end results. A very clean burning ring of fire. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire036.jpg) The color was intense azure blue. Very pleasing to the eyes. What's that all about:-?

My next attempt will be to use kerosene.

************************************************** *******

Came upon a container good for packing a Heinekin pot into prior to putting into your pack. The contents could easily be eaten in several pleasing forms and prepared in such a way as to lend it trail worthy.

The Container (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire034.jpg)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Grinder

05-09-2007, 13:21

zelph

05-09-2007, 21:34

zelph says:" Came upon a container good for packing a Heinekin pot"

Zelph!!! You're the man (or woman! as the case may be) I always buy the big size, but the small size will be perfect!!! Something I use!!

It's amazing how answers areright there and we can't see them.

People who obscess about the problem,like you do, get the job done

Thanks
Tom

Here are the specs on the oatmeal container:

7 inches tall

Inside diameter is 3 7/8 inches

Weight is 53 grams almost 2 ounces

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I tried some kerosene in the burner today and the results are promising.

The wick configuration has to be exact. Very little soot being produced during the burn that you see in the photos. Once the burner is made permanant instead of aluminum tape holding it in position etc. I venture to guess it will boil two cups with 10ml fuel. I don't think the smell of kero will ever go away:eek:

Photo one (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire075.jpg)

Photo two (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire072.jpg)

RockStar

05-09-2007, 21:53

Here are the specs on the oatmeal container:

7 inches tall

Inside diameter is 3 7/8 inches

Weight is 53 grams almost 2 ounces

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I tried some kerosene in the burner today and the results are promising.

The wick configuration has to be exact. Very little soot being produced during the burn that you see in the photos. Once the burner is made permanant instead of aluminum tape holding it in position etc. I venture to guess it will boil two cups with 10ml fuel. I don't think the smell of kero will ever go away:eek:

Photo one (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire075.jpg)

Photo two (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire072.jpg)

The first few times I boiled in my Heine It smelled like I was heating beer! ;) I thought it was funny! :D

zelph

05-10-2007, 10:39

The first few times I boiled in my Heine It smelled like I was heating beer! ;) I thought it was funny! :D

:banana Gotta love those special effects:banana

I used some scotch tape and aluminum tape to assist in the assembly of the stove. The newness does wear off after a few burns.

Hairspray has now taken the place of tape. I spray the fiberglass with hairspray before I cut it to length and width. Use just enough to make it easy to handle. Smells good going on and off.

I thought of using hemp rope for the wick, canabus twine maybe.

Pest

05-10-2007, 13:34

I like my Heine pots but they are not big enough to cook up one of those nasty lipton meals that all the through hikers like. I am concerned that they are not big or stable enough. But I don't eat lipton dinners.

I have a one cup tea making system with a regular pop can and a tea light stove it worked great in the kitchen but in the field it did not boil and I was testing it on a picnic table in 85 degree weather. I'm not sure what went wrong.

On another note:

One of my favorite stoves is the YACC, light, easy to make, integrated pot stand. But you have to use a lot of fuel to prime them. If I just one one cup of tea the YACC is a fuel waster.

The ion stove works with a small pop can but it's a bit slow for making just one cup of tea, it's better suited to boiling up a pot of noodles.

BTW I won a set of Kahtoola Crampons when I entered my one cup tea making system in a gear contest at ADZPCTKO. It really did not place very high but there were a lot of nice prizes to choose from so I got something nice anyway.

sum41punk91

05-18-2007, 17:00

:banana Gotta love those special effects:banana

I used some scotch tape and aluminum tape to assist in the assembly of the stove. The newness does wear off after a few burns.

Hairspray has now taken the place of tape. I spray the fiberglass with hairspray before I cut it to length and width. Use just enough to make it easy to handle. Smells good going on and off.

I thought of using hemp rope for the wick, canabus twine maybe.

Zelph you are a mind reader....i just recently tried using Hemp as a wick the only problem is you have to put it out before all the alcohol burns other wise the hemp burns. but it makes an amazing single use stove

zelph

05-19-2007, 11:25

Zelph you are a mind reader....i just recently tried using Hemp as a wick the only problem is you have to put it out before all the alcohol burns other wise the hemp burns. but it makes an amazing single use stove

I'm located in Richmond VA right now, cool place, doing the Civil War circuit while my wife does her geaneology seminar here. Heading up to Maryland this afternoon to spend a week there. I'll be able to access the AP trail there for only 1 days worth of "Check It Out" put my feet on the ancient trail of old. Lots of history behind the trail.

Flat cotton wick used in oil lamps can be used also but it will begin to burn when most of the fuel is used up. Cotton balls can be used also as a temporary wick just for the fun of it.

My first test formed soot on the side of the can in certain areas. I noted the inconsistancy of the wick in those certain areas. I reconfigured the wick to duplicate the areas that no soot formed.
This was the end results. A very clean burning ring of fire. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire036.jpg)
The color was intense azure blue.

My next attempt will be to use kerosene.

************************************************** *******

Had interesting results using low sulphur kerosene just prior to leaving on vacation. This was the end results. A very clean burning ring of fire. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire036.jpg) It was the same results as the liquid parrafin oil. When I return home I'll do some tests to see how much fuel is required to boil the 2 cup standard.

I was at a museum yesterday an saw a very small(fit in the palm of your hand) kerosene stove used during the Civil War. It looked to be 1 inch deep by 2 inches by 3 inches. In it's center was something that looked like the burner found in an oil lamp, was surrounded by threads but missing a cap. I was told it was used to heat water to soften up "Hard Tack" in order for it to be eaten.

Zelph:banana :banana :banana :banana having fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Richmond Virginia

Grinder

05-19-2007, 19:23

I'm just back from 5 days hiking the A/T. I went from Springer to Neel's gap.
I'm sorry to say that the DooDah burner performed rather poorly. Understand that after 8 or 10 hours of struggling up and down the slopes I didn't time anything.

But-- I would set up with two cups of water in the pot, add the normal amount of alcohol, light and the flame would go out before a full boil was reached. The second and third trial, I looked under the lid near the end of the burn and there was only bubbling along the side of the pot.

When I switched to my minibull side burner, a lid raising full boil was reached.

I think the ever present wind and the altitude account for the difference of performance.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I'll be watching for others field reports.

Miles of Smiles

Tom

zelph

05-22-2007, 12:44

Grinder

05-22-2007, 13:07

zelph

05-24-2007, 12:07

Yes, zelph, it was the mink oil tin top.

my wind screen is made from two tall beer cans, so the circumfrence is beer can x 2 (minus required overlap for crimps --1 inch total??)

The wind blows like heck up on the trail. you need good protection.

If you give me an exposed wick figure, I'll remove mine and trim it to the spec. height.

Tom

Yesterday I was on the AT in Maryland and today I'm in DC at the Smithsonian doing the rounds and found this computer and here I am:p

Teblum!!!! trim the wick to stick up above the rim no higher than 1/16 inch. Give that a try. You may not able to keep enough wick in the container to absorb all of 17ml to keep the stove on the safer side, sometimes we make sacrifices:)

I grabbed and drug this statement from the used equipment thread just to keep it on file before it expires:

05-14-2007, 20:01
Zelph, thanks for the R.O.F. stove. It worked flawlessly this past week on our loop trail from Elkmont to Clingmans Dome and back. I was the only one at Mt. Collins cooking in a Heiniken pot w/ the R.O.F. . One night, I even cooked up some dehydrated Cheddar Bacon Potato soup and just added a extra splash of alcohol to the burner for a longer cooking time. I then wrapped it in my fleece hat when the flame went out to let the potatos hydrate fully. Umm-Umm-Umm!! I am convinced! Even though I also took my Pocket Rocket, it never got used.
For those interested in Zelph's stove, let me just say that you can tell that he has put alot of effort into the details and workmanship producing this stove and it is well worth the investment. Keep up the good work Zelph and thanks again!

Ridgerunner

Also grabbed an drug this one from the same place. Sent four Heinekins over to Germany for Mike and the boys.

Hej Zelph,

:banana I got it. Arrived on 12.05.2007 early morning.
No duty or coustoms fee in Germany.

Great.

Box ok. Post opend it for inspection.
Probably the dont realised the content. Who gets emty beer cans from the States ?
First impession Well done :banana

First results 2 cups 350 ml in windy conditions with 2 cap fils Spiritus 94% Alcy boils within 3 min 45 sec
and keeps boiling for more 2 min 30 sec.
Windsreen on, holes at the upper end and the shiny side in.

I put the alcy direct in the stove and swirreld it around, so at the end it was a burst of the remaining spirit when I lifted the pot. No big deal but suprising to me (didn thougt of it).

Thanks

Mike

zelph

05-31-2007, 20:03

While I was on vacation I had some time to think of some improvements for the ROF.

I increased the height of the wick protector to 1 inch. It now has become a pot support ring for larger pots. Heinekin pots still can be used with this modification.

These photos show the stove being used to heat 8 cups of water( 1/2 gallon) in a pot that is 8 inches in diameter and 5 inches in height. It is an aluminum pot.

I used 2 ounces of liquid denatured alcohol.

Water boiled in 13 min. and flame out occured at 15 min. 2 tests were performed with same results.

Photo one shows stove (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/DSCF2255.jpg)resting on top of lid.

Photo two shows pot size (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/DSCF2256.jpg)in relation to stove. Plenty of support for large pot.

Photo three shows size of flame (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/DSCF2257.jpg)when stove it first lit.

Photo four shows flame at its max burn (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/DSCF2261.jpg). Stove needs to be supported with lid to provide air circulation and prevent burns if used on wooden surfaces.

This modification now makes the stove more versitile.

Wick protector/pot support is now being spot welded for structual integrety.

Wick is now being secured to stove with four fasteners instead of two. Helps maintain even height of wick around entire circumfrence. Length of wick is 11 1/2 inches long.

Test are ongoing. I'll release some stoves on ebay next week.

Modifications to the stove have also proved successful with the use of kerosene. A seperate thread will be started to describe that one and how it works. No soot. 5 min boil with 1/2 ounce fuel:banana

zelph

06-06-2007, 18:45

These photos show the stove being used to heat 8 cups of water( 1/2 gallon) in a pot that is 8 inches in diameter and 5 inches in height. It is an aluminum pot.

I used 2 ounces of liquid denatured alcohol.

Water boiled in 13 min. and flame out occured at 15 min. 2 tests were performed with same results.

Photo one shows stove (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/DSCF2255.jpg)resting on top of lid.

Photo two shows pot size (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/DSCF2256.jpg)in relation to stove. Plenty of support for large pot.

Photo three shows size of flame (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/DSCF2257.jpg)when stove it first lit.

Photo four shows flame at its max burn (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/DSCF2261.jpg). Stove needs to be supported with lid to provide air circulation and prevent burns if used on wooden surfaces.

Test are ongoing. I'll release some stoves on ebay next week.

Tests have been ongoing to determine what affects multiple burns will have on the stove. I have completed four long length burns of 20 min. duration.

The tests went like this:

Used the same aluminum pot as described above.

12 cups of water at 70 degrees out of tap. 70 degree room temp.(kitchen)

3 liquid ounces/90ml of denatured alcohol.

The 12 cups of water, on average, boiled in 20 min. That averages out to 1/2 ounce of fuel per 2 cups of water. That's efficient!!!!!!!!!!

Numerous tests also made using 17ml of fuel, averaging 6 min. boil times. for 2 cups of water.

Further tests have shown that the modification does not work that well with the Heinekin pot. The pot support is higher than the lower indent of the pot causing the pot to stick to the stove where the support touches the pot. Not good!!!!!!! A seperate stove is needed for the Heineken pot:mad:.

The stove can be used for light weight backpacking and also for multiple person campouts. Make 6 sevings of Ramen at one time. Everyone sits down and eats at same time.

Maximum fuel capacity for the stove is 3 fluid ounces/60ml.

zelph

06-15-2007, 10:49

Tests have been ongoing to determine what affects multiple burns will have on the stove. I have completed four long length burns of 20 min. duration.

The tests went like this:

Used the same aluminum pot as described above.

12 cups of water at 70 degrees out of tap. 70 degree room temp.(kitchen)

3 liquid ounces/90ml of denatured alcohol.

The 12 cups of water, on average, boiled in 20 min. That averages out to 1/2 ounce of fuel per 2 cups of water. That's efficient!!!!!!!!!!

Numerous tests also made using 17ml of fuel, averaging 6 min. boil times. for 2 cups of water.

Further tests have shown that the modification does not work that well with the Heinekin pot. The pot support is higher than the lower indent of the pot causing the pot to stick to the stove where the support touches the pot. Not good!!!!!!! A seperate stove is needed for the Heineken pot:mad:.

The stove can be used for light weight backpacking and also for multiple person campouts. Make 6 sevings of Ramen at one time. Everyone sits down and eats at same time.

Maximum fuel capacity for the stove is 3 fluid ounces/60ml.

"Egads" to the rescue. He came up with an idea that resulted in the tweeking of the pot support system. The new design now allows Heinekin pots and Fosters also, to be used with the raised pot support.

Egads suggested to raise the wick protector/retainer in 4 places equidistant around the circumfrence of the stove. In essence a ring with four humps sticking up to support regular cook pots. The humps would be spread outward a bit so as not to touch the Heiny pot. I tried it several times but was not able to get consistant results.

His idea of a 4 point support kept me thinking. My thoughts went to the stainless steel tabs that I used on the Martha Stuart wood burner stove.

So I made four tabs/inserts and installed then inbetween the two rows of fiberglass wick. That worked some what, but not to my liking. Boil times came too close to fuel burn out. Meaning, no continued boil time once boil was achieved.

I then tried moving the tabs/inserts to the extreme outside layer of fiberglass. Viola!!!!! It worked to my liking. 6 min. boils with a continued boil of 2 min.

The stove can now be used with both regular pots and the Heineken and Fosters pots. One stove fits all!!!!!

Some photos:

Photo one (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ebayrof032.jpg)

Photo two (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ebayrof030.jpg) The one on the right is the tabs on extreme outside

Photo three (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ebayrof031.jpg) Better view of tab placement

Photo four (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ebayrof024.jpg) Shows flame pattern

Photo five (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ebayrof029.jpg) Shows color of flame at low fuel level

The main attribute of this stove is it's stability. How many of you have had to do a balancing act trying to keep your pot on a 2 inch pop can stove? or maybe the ones made of 2 inch aluminum bottles? This stove has a full 3 3/4 inch pot suppot. I'm refering to stoves that have integral supports built in.

Another attribute is No Primer Pan required. No additional pot stand required. Compact, only 1 inch high, will fit iside all regular pots. It weighs 2 ounces, not bad for a complete stove.

Egads is a winner!!!!!!!!! Thank You for the ideas and assistance.:sun

All of you have been an ispiration and a help in developing stoves. Thank You All!!!!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------

Skidsteer

06-15-2007, 11:39

Looks like it'll improve wind resistance as well if you place the windscreen so that air inlets are lined up only where the 'tabs' are. :-?

zelph

06-19-2007, 21:07

Looks like it'll improve wind resistance as well if you place the windscreen so that air inlets are lined up only where the 'tabs' are. :-?

Hey Skids, I tried the windscreen positioning like you suggested. Works just like you said. Great idea!!!!!:)

I listed a "Ring Of Fire" Heineken Pot combination for Auction on Ebay today. Search: alcohol stove

Opening bid is only .99 cents :banana

Hey!!!! Anybody seen "doodah man" on the AT lately?

--------------------------------------------------

Skidsteer

06-19-2007, 22:00

Hey Skids, I tried the windscreen positioning like you suggested. Works just like you said. Great idea!!!!!:)

Happy to help. :)

Hey!!!! Anybody seen "doodah man" on the AT lately?

He's off trail but it sounds as if he had a great hike.

He'll likely see your question and chime in.

Phreak

06-19-2007, 22:15

Hey Skids, I tried the windscreen positioning like you suggested. Works just like you said. Great idea!!!!!:)

I listed a "Ring Of Fire" Heineken Pot combination for Auction on Ebay today. Search: alcohol stove

Opening bid is only .99 cents :banana

Hey!!!! Anybody seen "doodah man" on the AT lately?

--------------------------------------------------

Doodah made it 300 miles on the trail and had to end his hike due to some major feet issues.

doodah man

06-20-2007, 14:48

Hey!!!! Anybody seen "doodah man" on the AT lately?

Hey Zelph,
I have been back home for a month now. As mentioned by Phreak, I had some difficulty with my feet. I definitely learned some good lessons for my next long distance trip. I think I will be able to go lighter and I will pay much, much more attention to footwear. As a west coast guy, I also got an education on dealing with wet conditions (I was a real wimp for some of the early on bad weather).

By the way, I used the StarLyte stove for the whole trip and it still looks new. It worked magnificently with the Heineken pot getting 2.5 cup rolling boils with a little under an ounce of alcohol. (I was using a clear plastic film can that holds an ounce to “measure” how much I was using so I don’t know exactly as I did not need a whole film can full.) I did 2.5 cup boils for evening meals because I generally needed 2 cups for my meal and left ½ cup on the side to have some hot water to clean up with. I did not take the doodah-man stove you sent me because it was one of your early prototypes and may not be robust enough for a long trip. I can say that the StarLyte attracted the attention of a lot of folks who watched me use it and the no-spill while lit feature got nods of approval. doodah-man

zelph

06-22-2007, 09:45

Hey Zelph,
I have been back home for a month now. As mentioned by Phreak,

I had some difficulty with my feet. I definitely learned some good lessons for my next long distance trip. I think I will be able to go lighter and I will pay much, much more attention to footwear. As a west coast guy, I also got an education on dealing with wet conditions (I was a real wimp for some of the early on bad weather).

By the way, I used the StarLyte stove for the whole trip and it still looks new. It worked magnificently with the Heineken pot getting 2.5 cup rolling boils with a little under an ounce of alcohol. (I was using a clear plastic film can that holds an ounce to “measure” how much I was using so I don’t know exactly as I did not need a whole film can full.) I did 2.5 cup boils for evening meals because I generally needed 2 cups for my meal and left ½ cup on the side to have some hot water to clean up with. I did not take the doodah-man stove you sent me because it was one of your early prototypes and may not be robust enough for a long trip. I can say that the StarLyte attracted the attention of a lot of folks who watched me use it and the no-spill while lit feature got nods of approval. doodah-man

Sorry to hear about your hike cut short. You'll have to practice up in the state of Washington to get accustomed to the rain to get conditioned for your next completed thru of the AT. Hopefully your feet have recovered by now.

I wrote your address onto some kind of paper, oh now I remember, I tore of the return address from the box of cans you sent me HaHa!!! I'll be sending you the latest version of the Ring of Fire stove, also known as :"The Doodah Man Special" All this good stuff happend because of you!!!:banana

Nightwalker

06-24-2007, 01:40

I have been using 91 % rubbing alcohol for months now. My pot has a little black build up on it, but I wouldn't call it soot. I just rubbed on it and my finger came away clean.

Tom

Have you tried red HEET? 99% IsoPro. Cheap, too!

Dances with Mice

06-24-2007, 10:15

Have you tried red HEET? 99% IsoPro. Cheap, too!You can also try to make your own purified iso by adding salt to water/isopropyl mixtures. The salt should grab the water, then the purified alcohol should separate into a distinct layer. In theory. I haven't tried this myself.

This trick won't work for meth or ethanol but you already knew that. Otherwise margaritas would be a lot more popular.

zelph

06-25-2007, 11:51

Could'nt resist the challenge!!!!!!

I cut the top off of a 5L keg and boiled 1 gallon of water in it using the "Ring of Fire".

The keg is made of steel not aluminum.

I used 4 ounces of denatured alcohol.

Tap water and air temp. at 70 degrees. Test was conducted in the kitchen.

The fist two ounces of fuel brought the water temp. to 151 degrees.

The second two ounces of fuel brought it to a boil in 29 min. The 29 min. includes the refilling of the stove with fuel.

It then continued to boil for an additional 2 min.

It boiled 16 cups/1 gal/4L of water using 4 ounces/120ml of fuel. That comes out to 2 cups per 1/2 ounce/30ml of fuel. Thats efficient!!!

The stove is small enough for the trail (2 ounce) and big enough for when your thru hike is completed in the fall and ther'es a chill in the air, kick back with all your friends and heat up a gallon of hot cider in the Heineken keg.:banana

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ridgerunner50

06-25-2007, 15:19

zelph

06-26-2007, 13:55

Zelph, What happened to your ebay listing? That puppy was moving right along. With your new sipping lid for the Heine pot, does that mean the original ring attached lid will have to go? A 5 ltr keg, ehh --that IS a stretch---what an amazing little stove!:sun

It was juat a little misunderstanding on my part:o . Ebay removed the listing because the Heineken pot was not an authorized item. They said:
using another company's trademark in a way that may confuse buyers about the source of goods or services , or confuses buyers into believing that the seller is affiliated with, sponsored by or endorsed by the trademark owner is both illigal and against ebay's policies. Examples include counterfeits, unauthorized replica items and items that bear the brand or logo of a company without that company's permission.

Guidline: If the product you are listing bears the brand or logo of a company, but it wasn't made or authorized by that company, don't sell it on ebay.

Long story short: I goofed!!!!!! I should have read in the entire ebay users manual/policies and procedures manual.

I ventured I gained:)

I relisted the "Ring of Fire" today on eBay. Take a look at it to see the changes in format. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250136662106) I should be ok with this one. I also notified atroll of my situation immediately after I was informed. I asked that the stove and Heineken pot listing in the used gear for sale forum be deleted. If you have any questions regarding the availabilty of stoves and pots to Whiteblazers just send me a PM for answers. They're still available at the lesser amount of what you may see on eBay.

In the listing I included a sipping lid as part of the set. I think it may be of interest to someone to sway them over to using beer can pots. The ring will have to be removed to use it. The heiny pot has a real nice rolled edge that the sipper snaps onto.

Dances with Mice

06-26-2007, 15:21

... In the listing I included a sipping lid as part of the set. ... The ring will have to be removed to use it. Otherwise you'd get a mouthful of fire, right?

Ridgerunner50

06-26-2007, 18:04

Zelph,
It was juat a little misunderstanding on my part:o . Ebay removed the listing because the Heineken pot was not an authorized item. They said:
Quote:
using another company's trademark in a way that may confuse buyers about the source of goods or services , or confuses buyers into believing that the seller is affiliated with, sponsored by or endorsed by the trademark owner is both illigal and against ebay's policies. Examples include counterfeits, unauthorized replica items and items that bear the brand or logo of a company without that company's permission.

Guidline: If the product you are listing bears the brand or logo of a company, but it wasn't made or authorized by that company, don't sell it on ebay.
I think your new listing will work. Glad you were able to use my comments to hype the stove. Auction is missing pics of windscreen and fuel bottle. Is that wick material glued around the can ? With the new sipper lid, I think I would leave the ring attachment off the original lid. I just use duct tape wrapped carefully around the tab to make a handle to lift the lid. I hope you sell a boat load on ebay. You might have to start think about getting a warehouse to set up mass production. :banana Best wishes and keep the ideas flowing.

zelph

06-26-2007, 23:01

Zelph,

I think your new listing will work. Glad you were able to use my comments to hype the stove. Auction is missing pics of windscreen and fuel bottle. Is that wick material glued around the can ? With the new sipper lid, I think I would leave the ring attachment off the original lid. I just use duct tape wrapped carefully around the tab to make a handle to lift the lid. I hope you sell a boat load on ebay. You might have to start think about getting a warehouse to set up mass production. :banana Best wishes and keep the ideas flowing.

Thanks Ridgerunner!!!! The wick material is not glued. I don't have confidence in glue to hold it for a long length of time. It's held in with 4 "U"shaped fasteners. The stainless band is held to the wick by four barbs protruding from the backside of the band. When the band is installed the barbs dig into the wick.

The sipper lid might work with the original lid still on if I cut a notch out of the sipper so it will fit around the ring where it passes over the rim of the pot. I'll have to try it. My wife informed me she bought the sipper cups at Kmart in the baby dept.(2 yrs. ago).

Could'nt resist the challenge!!!!!!

I cut the top off of a 5L keg and boiled 1 gallon of water in it using the "Ring of Fire".

The keg is made of steel not aluminum.

I used 4 ounces of denatured alcohol.

Tap water and air temp. at 70 degrees. Test was conducted in the kitchen.

The fist two ounces of fuel brought the water temp. to 151 degrees.

The second two ounces of fuel brought it to a boil in 29 min. The 29 min. includes the refilling of the stove with fuel.

It then continued to boil for an additional 2 min.

It boiled 16 cups/1 gal/4L of water using 4 ounces/120ml of fuel. That comes out to 2 cups per 1/2 ounce/30ml of fuel. Thats efficient!!!

The stove is small enough for the trail (2 ounce) and big enough for when your thru hike is completed in the fall and ther'es a chill in the air, kick back with all your friends and heat up a gallon of hot cider in the Heineken keg.:banana

I forgot to post the photos that belong to the above quote. Here they are:

two pots, both work great with the stove (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinylipo020.jpg)

photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinylipo015.jpg) contains 1 gal. of water

photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinylipo014.jpg) stove sits on it's lid to prevent scorching.

photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinylipo017.jpg) boiling

photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/heinylipo018.jpg) boiling diff. view.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ridgerunner50

06-27-2007, 18:06

Zelph, I should have been more specific. Is that wicking material glued around the Heine pot ?

zelph

06-28-2007, 09:17

Zelph, I should have been more specific. Is that wicking material glued around the Heine pot ?

It's textured aluminum foil. Very light weight, used in the floral industry to wrap around flower pots to make a potted plant pot look better. It's green on one side, aluminum on the other.

I'll try and get a photo up of the fuel bottle and windscreen. Same one shown in previous photos here in this thread. Thanks for the heads-up

eredluin

07-06-2007, 15:37

Hi Zelph, is the Origo fuel adsorbent material, as used in the Twilyte, a mineral wool based felt?

zelph

07-07-2007, 09:12

Hi Zelph, is the Origo fuel adsorbent material, as used in the Twilyte, a mineral wool based felt?

It's hard to tell. When you say mineral wool I think of the dark grey insulation that was once available for home use as wall insulation. What I use does not look like that. It's light in color and comes in sheet form. The fibers are perpendicular. It's designed for cappilary flow. The fibers look like they might be ceramic in nature.

The black plumbers cloth that is used alot by Skids looks like felt.

.

eredluin

07-07-2007, 20:38

zelph

07-07-2007, 21:57

Hi Zelph, I work in the building construction trade. I use a mineral wool batting to fire stop and sound proof interior and demising walls. The Dometic.com website shows a crossection of the Origo fuel container. the color of the absorbent material looks similar to what I use at work. Thus my inquiry into what type of material Origo uses. There is a West Marine location in town and they sell Origo fuel containers. At $32.00 for a container, it be hard to pull one apart. I think I'll email the Origo rep and inquire about the fuel container "stuffing". Maybe I can buy the material direct?! What do you think?
Many thanks, Paul

PS, please disregard the PM off the BPL site. It's me. Same subject!

I recently bought an Origo 1500 stove. The material in this new stove is white (just beneath the stainless grid that covers the absorbing material)
Looks and feels like the stuff they use in the little alcohol burner for fondue warmers.

I sugest you try the batting material you use for sound proofing. Cut it so that the fibers are going to be verticle when put into your container.

Send an email to the Origo rep and see what you can find out. They may be using some new high tech stuff. Inquiring Minds Want To Know:D

PM me with the reps contact info and I'll contact him also.

Keep me informed. Thanks (I disregarded the BPL msg.)

zelph

07-31-2007, 13:48

Last Friday I cooked 4 medium potatos and today I cooked a cut up 3 pound chicken. I used the Ring of Fire and a 4 quart pressure cooker.

Quick results:

Potatos, 3 ounces denatured alcohol, could have cooked 6 with same amount of fuel. Cook time 17 1/2 min

Chicken, 5 ounces denatured alcohol, could have gotten by with 3 i believe:-? . Started out with 3 and after flame out added another 2 to insure complete cook. Wound up having the chicken way over cooked. Jiggler was set at 15 pounds pressure. Breast of chicken actually looked like it exploded, shreads were on lid of cooker. From start to finish of cooking it took 30 min.

I'll do the test again using only 3 ounces of fuel and see what the results are. In todays test, the 3 ounces of fuel was consumed in 17 1/2 min., start to flame out. My guess is that I'll be able to cook 3 lbs. of chicken in 17 1/2 min using 3 ounces of fuel.

This would be a great way to plan cooking meals in your "Emergency Preparedness Plan" The pressure cooker can be bought at thrift stores, watch for them, usually no more than $5.00. This post shows the versatility of the ROF. Not only for backpackers use. use it in your Emergency Preparedness Plan"

Some Photos:

Potatos (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/rngofire010.jpg)

Cooked potatos (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/rngofire012.jpg)

3 pounds chicken (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/rngofire038.jpg)

Over cooked chicken (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/rngofire039.jpg) Not really:rolleyes: jiggler thingy at 15 pounds(chicken photo to follow:)

Plenty of water left in thepot, started with 1 1/2 cups ended up with 2. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/rngofire046.jpg)

Shows level of 3 ounces of fuel in solid ring ROF (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/rngofire040.jpg)

Shows flame pattern (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/rngofire043.jpg)

Always use an oven baking pan with raised edge when using this stove indoors and always have an open window to allow fresh air make-up to enter room.

Photo of over cooked chicken (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/rngofire045.jpg)
.

oops56

07-31-2007, 14:57

Pressure cooker great idea i got one small 1 quart.Dam and i got so much to do.

peanuts

07-31-2007, 15:29

aren't preassure cookers heavy on the weight?

Tobit

07-31-2007, 16:18

Love is a burning thing
and it makes a firery ring
bound by wild desire
I fell in to a ring of fire...

I fell in to a burning ring of fire
I went down,down,down
and the flames went higher.
And it burns,burns,burns
the ring of fire
the ring of fire.

The taste of love is sweet
when hearts like our's meet
I fell for you like a child
oh, but the fire went wild..

I fell in to a burning ring of fire.....

James Justin

07-31-2007, 17:17

I like Heinekin beer. I also like the Heinekin commercial Mike Meyers did where he asked: "Do you like my heine?"

-Jimmy

Lanthar Mandragoran

07-31-2007, 17:38

GSI makes an HI Pressure Cooker (http://www.gsioutdoors.com/detail.aspx?c=4&sc2=37&p=40500&)

Skidsteer

07-31-2007, 17:55

GSI makes an HI Pressure Cooker (http://www.gsioutdoors.com/detail.aspx?c=4&sc2=37&p=40500&)

The specs are vague. Weight is listed as 3.25 for a vessel that holds 111 oz.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that the 3.25 is pounds, not ounces.

Dances with Mice

07-31-2007, 18:26

The specs are vague. Weight is listed as 3.25 for a vessel that holds 111 oz.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that the 3.25 is pounds, not ounces.The specs could use a little work. If they are to be believed, I'd carry the blue enamel roasting pan. (http://www.gsioutdoors.com/detail.aspx?c=4&sc2=46&p=16028&lu=%2flist.aspx%3fc%3d4%26sc2%3d46&)

Skidsteer

07-31-2007, 18:31

The specs could use a little work. If they are to be believed, I'd carry the blue enamel roasting pan. (http://www.gsioutdoors.com/detail.aspx?c=4&sc2=46&p=16028&lu=%2flist.aspx%3fc%3d4%26sc2%3d46&)

Good Heavens!

You stumbled onto the much storied unobtanium!

zelph

07-31-2007, 19:06

Take a look at this one (http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&partNumber=735839&cm_mmc=cse_nextag-_-datafeed-_-product-_-na&mr:referralID=f197c13c-4d01-462a-8c0e-6f41763fc9e2), half the weight, half the price. Just think of the fuel savings you can enjoy with a little unit like this. I'm sure the unit would balance nicely on the ROF.

Boil water faster and save fuel with this climber's pressure cooker designed to make cooking at altitude easier.

Save up to 70% on cooking time and 50% on fuel consumption with this time-tested and energy-efficient method
Aluminum construction is lightweight; lid seals from the inside like an airplane door and pressure is automatically regulated
Interior pressure reaches 15 PSI with an internal temperature of 248 F which helps to neutralize biological hazards and pathogens
Comes with easy to use directions and a 150-recipe booklet; cool handles for safe cooking; removable self sealing gasket for easy maintenance
UL approved for safety
Cooks regular white long grain rice in 5 minutes, pinto beans in 20 minutes, chicken in 7 minutes and beef stew in 20 minutesImported.

.

Tobit

07-31-2007, 19:31

Skidsteer

07-31-2007, 19:37

Damnit, the same person who out bid me at the last second for Zelph's 2x2 stove outbid me again at the last second on Zelph's Ring of Fire.

I give up, guess I will have to settle for a pepsi can stove from AntiGravity. I don't have the talent to build this stuff. I am dangerous around tools.

Ugh.

- Tobias

It doesn't take talent, it takes obstinence. Which is way better than abstinence.

Stay with it and ask questions. We'll be happy to walk you through the first fifty stoves or so.

zelph

07-31-2007, 19:42

Damnit, the same person who out bid me at the last second for Zelph's 2x2 stove outbid me again at the last second on Zelph's Ring of Fire.

I give up, guess I will have to settle for a pepsi can stove from AntiGravity. I don't have the talent to build this stuff. I am dangerous around tools.

Ugh.

- Tobias

Tobias, Tobias!!!!!! That hurts my eyes to read that yikes. I will negotiate in the PM you sent me:)

Tobit

07-31-2007, 19:47

zelph

07-31-2007, 20:13

Some guy named Henry must really like Zelph's creations more than I do. I thought I was bidding high with my maximum bid of $25 for the Ring of Fire. He comes along and bids $26 for it! This same guy also spent $20 for the 2x2!

- Tobias

He must have seen my post about cooking with the pressure cooker:)

I love auctions!!!!!

Somebody got one for $8.00 Never know whats goin to happen.

zelph

08-21-2007, 10:40

[quhttp://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/statusicon/post_old.gifote]
06-27-2007, 16:23
Skidsteer

Is that one of those after market Coleman lantern replacement globes?

Have you tried as a windscreen for the ROF?
__________________
Skids
[/quote]

Hey Skids, your idea to use it as a windscreen worked out just great. There is about a 3/8 inch space all around the pot and drafts super good. Early morning hot chocolate comes easy with this setup. I changed my way of thinking on pot design. Got rid of the Keinekin can top and am now using the ROF lid as my pot lid while heating water. I felt sorry for the lid just sitting there while the stove was working so I put it to work also. Also changed the bail on the pot, 2 holes under the very top rim, no eyelets. Kinda neat how things get better after using it in the outdoors under test conditions.

Under very humid conditions the ROF should be lit first and a few seconds of burn allowed before putting pot in. The alcohol seems to absorb moisture very fast. Any of you observed hard starts of alcohol stoves in very humid conditions?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_augcmpot032.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/augcmpot032.jpg)My alcohol safety can.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_augcmpot028.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/augcmpot028.jpg)stainless steel aftermarket lantern globe used as windscreen this past week while camping.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_augcmpot027.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/augcmpot027.jpg)windscreen works great Skids, thanks for the idea!!!!

Skidsteer

08-21-2007, 17:42

06-27-2007, 16:23
Skidsteer

Is that one of those after market Coleman lantern replacement globes?

Have you tried as a windscreen for the ROF?
__________________
Skids

Hey Skids, your idea to use it as a windscreen worked out just great...

....Under very humid conditions the ROF should be lit first and a few seconds of burn allowed before putting pot in. The alcohol seems to absorb moisture very fast. Any of you observed hard starts of alcohol stoves in very humid conditions?

....windscreen works great Skids, thanks for the idea!!!!

Glad to hear it worked out well, Zelph.

IMO, you've hit on the only real drawback to a wick-ed stove. I don't think the alcohol fuel is absorbing the humidity from the air.
I'm pretty sure it's the wick in the stove that absorbs moisture and I've observed the same phenomenon that you did.

It makes sense when you think about it; A material that will absorb alcohol will likely absorb water as well.

It's no biggie to deal with though. It takes much more trouble to keep a sleeping bag dry.

I would think that the old carpenter's trick of putting a small piece of chalk in a toolbox to absorb condensation would work equally well in the ROF.

:)

zelph

08-22-2007, 14:21

Glad to hear it worked out well, Zelph.

IMO, you've hit on the only real drawback to a wick-ed stove. I don't think the alcohol fuel is absorbing the humidity from the air.
I'm pretty sure it's the wick in the stove that absorbs moisture and I've observed the same phenomenon that you did.

It makes sense when you think about it; A material that will absorb alcohol will likely absorb water as well.

It's no biggie to deal with though. It takes much more trouble to keep a sleeping bag dry.

I would think that the old carpenter's trick of putting a small piece of chalk in a toolbox to absorb condensation would work equally well in the ROF.

:)

My wife wears glasses. When she entered the house(air conditioned)standing in the doorway, her glasses fogged up. Outside temperature was about 85 degrees, humidity/dew point was way up there, my guess 90-95. Her glasses did not absorb water, water condensed on them. These were the same outdoor conditions that existed while camping.

Fiberglass wick used in the ROF is non-porous, no absorbtion. Thin fibers being parralell in close proximaty of each other will wick/transfer a fluid when in contact with it by means of cappilary action. The stove has a cover on it during the time that it is in storage.

I speculate that moisture may have condensed onto the surface of the wicks fibers(the stove did lite but burned with a low flame). I speculate the alcohol at the tips of the fibers may have absorbed moisture as it does inside a cars fuel tank when the product "HEET" is used.

I've done most of my stove testing in my garage, under all weather conditions having a direct affect on the conditions inside the garage(non-heated un-attached). Under humid, low atmospheric pressure conditions, I observed that 1/2 ounce of fuel could not produce a boil in a stove that normally would under dry/clear conditions. All test conditions were the same except fot the weather. I have mention this experience in a couple of posts, in different threads and had no response from anyone experiencing the same. I mentioned the difficulties in the above thread again to see if anyone could respond, thanks Skids for your input. I understand how you came to your conclusions.

Inquiring Minds Want To Know. It's a Stovie Thing.:-?

JAK!!!!!Give us your views on this phenomenon if you would please.

.

Skidsteer

08-22-2007, 16:15

zelph

08-23-2007, 13:43

It's an interesting discussion.

I'd never thought of fuel absorbing moisture from the surrounding air. Not sure if it's even possible.

I'm hoping some of the resident chemist types will chime in on this. :-?

After a little research I came to the conclusion that Denatured Alcohol absorbs water from the air. It's "hygroscopic":)

These articles and sites will add some light to the subject:

https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/95485.htm
Section 3 - Hazards Identification

EMERGENCY OVERVIEW</STRONG>Appearance: clear, colorless liquid. Caution! Hygroscopic (absorbs moisture from the air). May be harmful if swallowed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

It is also good practice to use denatured alcohol that is fresh. Once opened, depending upon temperature and relative humidity, alcohol will begin to absorb moisture from the air if not kept tightly closed. Moisture in your alcohol means that you will have water in your shellac. Water in shellac softens the film and shortens the shelf life of the liquid shellac. Water in your shellac will also degrade its ability to act as a barrier to the movement of water vapor in and out of wood with seasonal changes in relative humidity. Therefore, put the lid back on the alcohol container immediately and keep it tightly sealed between uses. It may be wise to purchase your alcohol in quarts or even pints if you don't use a lot of shellac. In this way your alcohol is always fresh.
(Note: Watch for an informal study on the relationship between temperature, humidity, and moisture absorption by denatured alcohol to appear here in the future. Tests have been run and the data is being compiled. These tests suggest that at lower humidity alcohol does not absorb very much water over and above the amount that it already contains. However, the testing suggests that, at the very least, the volume of alcohol in an open container will quickly evaporate thus increasing the percentage of water in the remaining liquid.
http://www.johnjacobmickley.net/Shop%20Pages/Shellac,%20Mixing.htm

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was also very important to follow the exact
>protocol right down to the exact size of the test tubes. Also the
>absolute alcohol is very hard to keep in the "absolute" state. When you
>take the lid off the bottle, it absorbs moisture out of the air and
>dilutes itself out.
http://forums.obgyn.net/ob-gyn-l/OBGYNL.9712/0970.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9923956
Section 10: Stability and Reactivity Data
Stability: The product is stable.
Instability Temperature: Not available.
Conditions of Instability: Incompatible materials, heat, sources of ignition.
Incompatibility with various substances: Reactive with oxidizing agents, acids, alkalis.
Corrosivity: Non-corrosive in presence of glass.
Special Remarks on Reactivity:
Ethanol rapidly absorbs moisture from the air.
Can react vigorously with oxiders.
The following oxidants have been demonstrated to undergo vigorous/explosive reaction with ethanol: barium
perchlorate, bromine pentafluoride, calcium hypochlorite, chloryl perchlorate,

H

Dances with Mice

08-23-2007, 14:21

The following oxidants have been demonstrated to undergo vigorous/explosive reaction with ethanol:.... calcium hypochlorite .... Really? How Cool! I wonder what happens with sodium hypochlorite? A little bleach, a little denatured, have your hiking partner stir it and ... oh, I'm sorry. What were we talking about?

Yeah, alcohol and water mix well together. I like mine with a twist of lime, thanks. It's also why HEET is marketed, backpackers are not that product's target customer group. And the water-alcohol mixing thing is an advantage - you can put out alcohol fires with water but can't use water on gas fires. Have I listed enough extremely obvious points yet?

Denatured will also absorb water from humid air, I'm sure, but the rate it absorbs is probably much, much less than the rate it evaporates. That could mean that the dregs of your fuel bottle might not burn as well as a freshly filled bottle.

Some years ago I heard of someone purposely putting drops of water in their stove fuel to attenuate the flame and acheive a simmer. That was back in the Flyin' Brian cat stove days. It sounds like it should work. So I tried it once and didn't notice much difference. But even 70% isoprop burns, with some coaxing, so I have to wonder how much difference a little absorbed water from the air would make. But it sounds like an area rich in experimentation possibilities.

JAK

08-23-2007, 14:58

The first few times I boiled in my Heine It smelled like I was heating beer! ;) I thought it was funny! :DMuch of the humour may have to do with how you emptied the can. :)

JAK

08-23-2007, 15:02

JAK

08-23-2007, 16:06

JAK!!!!!Give us your views on this phenomenon if you would please.

I've browsed through the thread to try and catch up. Neat stove. Not sure I understand this stove completely or exactly what the problems might be but here are some provactive ideas on various issues that might lead towards some possible answers, or new ideas:

1. Soot buildup on bottom, but not on sides.
It would appear to me that you are getting incomplete combustion under the pot, and complete combustion on the sides of the pot. The source of the soot is most certainly carbon from the fuel. I think the problem under the pot is a combination of
a) not enough oxygen in that area
b) low temperature in that area due to cold can above
c) perhaps a thicker boundary layer, colder and less mixing
d) isopropyl alcohol has more btu/oz but is less volatile and less oxygenated compared to ethanol or methanol, so it needs to burn at a higher temperature and it needs more air, and more time too I think, so it shares some problems similar to oil stoves, but it is otherwise not a 'dirty' fuel.
e) more water in isopropyl alcohol should have the effect of further lowering combustion temperatures because the heat of combustion also has to boil the water in the fuel, so you will likely get more soot problems, similar to problems you might get burning green wood. You get some of this heat back when the water vapour recondenses next to the cold can, but the problem of incomplete combustion and soot buildup remains.
f) on the sides of the can you should get very good combustion and less soot buildup because of the fresh air from the sides and the turbulent mixing you get as the gas rounds the sides of the bottom of the can. I think you are doing well if you can burn isopropyl alcohol and only get soot on the bottom.

2. Absorption of water into the isopropyl alcohol fuel and wick.
Well we know there is already some water in the fuel. You can get 99%, 91%,70%, and the rest is water. I am not sure what might happen between when you fuel the stove and light it but here are some ideas.
a) The wick will increase the surface area so the alcohol will evaporate faster, which also cools the alcohol and wick. This might enhance condensation and absorption of water vapour by the alcohol.
b) I would guess that 99% alcohol would absorb faster, and perhaps fall to 98%, but I can't see 70% getting much worse.
c) In humid conditions with cold water in the can you will definitely get condensation on the sides and bottom of the can though, and this should be wiped off before setting the can on the stove.
d) In the early stages of the burn, when water in the can is coldest, some of the water vapour in the combustion gas, both from water in the fuel and from products of combustion from hydrogen in the fuel, will likely recondense on the bottom of the can and perhaps the sides also and rain back down onto the wick. As the stove heats up less of this will occur, but the fuel remaining in the stove will have higher more moisture content as time goes on.
e) This I am not sure about. Other than moisture re-entering the wick and fuel, I would guess that fuel with less moisture burns with fairly consistent moisture content throughout the burn, whereas fuel that is 70% alcohol and 30% moisture might burn in such a way that the alcohol burns off faster. Not sure. If this was so you might end up with a wet wick when you are done.

3. Regarding use of Isopropyl Alcohol fuel.
a) As I said above, I think you are doing well to burn isopropyl alcohol and only get soot on the bottom. It does have the highest BTU/oz of alcohol fuels, though it is the least volatile. I would stick to 99% though, as it should give better combustion, and of course gives the highest BTU/oz carried.
b) I don't think any sort of vegetable oil or lamp oil or kerosene would burn well in such a stove because the pot would be too close causing problems with incomplete combustion due to insufficient air and cold surfaces. Mixing oil with alcohol does not help alcohol stoves, though it sometimes helps oil stoves by removing water from fuel lines. In a stove like this though the alcohol quickly burns off first, and the oil will not do so well.
c) If the wick is wet when you are done, or if you think it absorbs moisture while stored, I wonder if it might help to drip some parrafin wax or beeswax or vegetable oil onto the wick. You might have to remove the pot at the end of the burn when it starts to smoke. It might burn smokeless with the pot removed and boil off any water, and then perhaps seal the wick.
d) Isopropyl alcohol has two forms, isopropyl-1 and isopropyl-2. They have different boiling points and volatility but the same BTU/oz. I am not sure which one is the one you buy as HEET or which one is the one you buy as rubbing alcohol or if they are both the same, but it might be worth looking into to see which one might be the better fuel if they are different.
e) On a final note, fuels can sometimes burn incompletely without soot forming, though in the pressence of a cold pot you would almost always get soot. Not all incomplete products of combustion will appear as soot though. With methanol and ethanol this is rarely a problem, as they are both simple hydrocarbons and highly volatile, which tend to go hand-in-hand. Isopropyl alcohol is still fairly simple though less volatile, so it might not give off much other than soot. However, the more complex liquid fuels and solid fuels, like kerosene, lamp oil, vegetable oil, parafin wax, beeswax, wood, etc. can give off gases in addition to the smoke and soot and can do so even with sufficient oxygen and without the presence of a cold surface. The potential problems are soot buildup, unrealized BTUs, unhealthy and potentially fatal fumes like carbon monoxide. I don't think this is a potential problem with isopropyl alcohol though, other than the soot.

JAK

08-23-2007, 16:11

Regarding my very last comment above, the products of combustion of isopropyl alcohol are probably fairly safe, except that isopropyl alcohol fumes themselves are not safe, and might still be contained in combustion gases if you are getting incomplete combustion. So ventilation WOULD be more important with this fuel than a methanol or ethanol stove.

JAK

08-23-2007, 16:22

Regarding my query about which kind of isopropyl alcohol the isopropyl HEET and isopropyl rubbing alcohol are, and whether they might be different. At least the isopropyl portion of them is the same, which is 2-propanol, as opposed to 1-propanol.

This is isopropyl alcohol, aka 2-propanol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol
Density and phase 0.785 g/cm3, liquid
Boiling point 82.3 °C (355 K)
Flash point 12 °C
Autoignition temperature 399 °C

This is 1-propanol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Propanol
Density and phase 0.8034 g/cm3, liquid
Boiling point 97.1 °C (370.3 K)
Flash point 15 °C
"It is an isomer of propan-2-ol. It is used as a solvent in the pharmaceutical industry, and for resins and cellulose esters. It is formed naturally in small amounts during many fermentation processes."
So it would appear that 1-propanol is somewhat less volatile, so perhaps not as good a fuel, though somewhat denser by volume, but not readily available anyway.

Dances with Mice

08-23-2007, 19:26

JAK

08-24-2007, 08:57

Geez, Jak! What's this "less oxygenated" stuff? You've used that term a couple of times now. Why not just drag your nails along a chalkboard if you're trying to irritate a chemist? Where did ever you pull that term from? It's complete, total, utter nonsense.

Mother Nature determines the outcome of combustion. Be aware that She keeps score very carefully.

Just work out the equation for the combustion of meth, eth, and isopropyl. It's easy and fun! One line each. There's a very simple relationship between them. You'll also know exactly what the combustion products are. I'll start:

2CH3OH + 3O2 --> 2CO2 + 4H2O

The remainder of the series is left as an exercise for the student.

We'll not get into bond energy equations, as informative as they are. They would tell you why the presence of -OH (alcohol) functional groups in a hydrocarbon tend to make the material burn rather than explode. Having alcohol functional groups does NOT NOT NOTNOTNOTNOT make a substance "oxygenated". Never ever.

Simply calculating the combustion series, and studying it, will tell you exactly why you get soot with isoprop if air input is at all resticted.You are right. I used the term incorrectly. Oxygenates means infused or saturated with oxygen or oxygen containing compounds such as alcohols, but does not mean the oxygen containing compounds themselves. You have to excuse me because I make a lot of this stuff up as I go along. ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygenate

What I meant was that the propanols contain RELATIVELY less oxygen compared to ethanol and methanol. As a result of this, despite being a higher hydrocarbon with relatively less hydrogen, it ends up having a more BTU/pound rather than less, but requires a higher air to fuel ratio rather than lower. This last bit PARTIALLY explains why it doesn't burn as well despite having more energy per pound of fuel. It is not just because it is more complex, though I understand that is also a big part of it, along with boiling point and flash point and all that. There was probably a better and more correct way to say it, like isopropyl alcohol contains relatively less oxygen.

JAK

08-24-2007, 09:27

Sorry, the word 'Oxygenates' up there was a typo. I meant to say:

You are right. I used the term incorrectly. 'Oxygenated' means infused or saturated with oxygen or oxygen containing compounds such as alcohols, but does not mean the oxygen containing compounds themselves.

Oxygenates is oxygen containing compounds such as alcohols used to oxygenate other fuels. In short, oxygenates are not themselves oxygenated.

JAK

08-24-2007, 09:33

Darn. Another typo. I could play this all day. Anyhow, seriously Dances with Mice, thanks for the correction. It has taught me what oxygenated really means and what oxygenates are.

So what do you think about mixing isopropyl alcohol with ethanol to add a few BTU/pound and help make the ethanol burn more visibly? Worth a try? I suppose depending on how the ethanol might have been denatured it might already have been done. I haven't played with this stuff as much as I should.

Dances with Mice

08-24-2007, 10:50

A much better way to say it is that isoprop requires more oxygen to burn compared to meth or eth. Exactly as the combustion equation predicts. That old atomic theory works pretty well for this stuff.

It has nothing to do with the molecular carbon / oxygen ratio that you seem to be hung up on. Ethane and methane burn quite well with no oxygen in their structures at all, just ask any coal miner.

In fact isopropanol requires a LOT more oxygen for complete combustion compared to methanol or ethanol. Truckloads more. Stovies can use this in their design by either slowing the rate of isoprop being burned (Zelph has done this using a wick) or increasing the air available to the flame (place the wick outside the pot circumference). Areas in the burn pattern that do not have substantial air flow will have incomplete combustion and those combustion products will include Carbon rather than CO2. Carbon's the black stuff. Soot.

Isoprop's denatured mostly with methanol. I've not had problems determining when denatured is burning. Well, ok, once...

Of more interest to me is wondering why nobody's running with the calcium hypochlorite / alcohol combination that Zelp posted. Imagine a stove that didn't need a spark or match to light, with the possiblity of an explosion! Solid pool chlorine tabs and a controlled drip of alcohol and you're off and cooking. Somebody has to take that idea and run with it.

Run away from my direction though, please.

zelph

08-24-2007, 11:40

I've browsed through the thread to try and catch up. Neat stove. Not sure I understand this stove completely or exactly what the problems might be but here are some provactive ideas on various issues that might lead towards some possible answers, or new ideas:

1. Soot buildup on bottom, but not on sides.
It would appear to me that you are getting incomplete combustion under the pot, and complete combustion on the sides of the pot. The source of the soot is most certainly carbon from the fuel. I think the problem under the pot is a combination of

2. Absorption of water into the isopropyl alcohol fuel and wick.
Well we know there is already some water in the fuel. You can get 99%, 91%,70%, and the rest is water. I am not sure what might happen between when you fuel the stove and light it but here are some ideas.

c) In humid conditions with cold water in the can you will definitely get condensation on the sides and bottom of the can though, and this should be wiped off before setting the can on the stove.
d) In the early stages of the burn, when water in the can is coldest, some of the water vapour in the combustion gas, both from water in the fuel and from products of combustion from hydrogen in the fuel, will likely recondense on the bottom of the can and perhaps the sides also and rain back down onto the wick. As the stove heats up less of this will occur, but the fuel remaining in the stove will have higher more moisture content as time goes on.

b) I don't think any sort of vegetable oil or lamp oil or kerosene would burn well in such a stove because the pot would be too close causing problems with incomplete combustion due to insufficient air and cold surfaces.

JAK, (1.) There is no combustion that takes place under the stove, it's all occuring on the side of the pot.

JAK, (2 c.d.) I think you did good here!!!! The conditions were perfect for this to occur. I took cold water out of the 2 gal. cooler and into the Heinekin pot. More than likely, condensation onto the pot started immediately. I then placed the pot into the stove. A space of time elapsed before trying to ignite stove, condensation begins to rain down sides of pot onto wick that is in contact with side of pot. Fuel gets contaminated. Poor ignition resulted. I raised the pot exposing uncontaminated fuel in center of stove allowing it to burn hot and evaporate water from surrounding wick and sides of pot. Brainstorming, I love it!!!!!!!!!!

JAK, (b) I have built a prototype of this stove to burn lamp oil/liquid paraffin. That prototype has a wick that is configured a little differently and uses a Fosters beer can instead of Heinekin. Fosters has a straight wall design compared to the irregular wall of the Heinekin. Turbulence is a no no when it comes to candles and lamps( modified ROF stove included) do this experiment: under calm conditions watch the wick of a candle burn. Now introduce a slight breeze/turbulance enough to make the flame fliker and you will be able to see smoke/soot comming from the flame. Oil lamps have glass globes around the flame to prevent turbulence and create a smooth upward draft(chimney) the wick of a lamp needs to be trimmed regularly to keep it burning clean. The wick hieght should be at it's lowest possible hieght to burn clean. Those principles and others need be applied to stove design for a successful end product.

Dances with Mice:

Of more interest to me is wondering why nobody's running with the calcium hypochlorite / alcohol combination that Zelp posted. Imagine a stove that didn't need a spark or match to light, with the possiblity of an explosion! Solid pool chlorine tabs and a controlled drip of alcohol and you're off and cooking. Somebody has to take that idea and run with it.

Run away from my direction though, please.

Oh My!!!!!!! When I saw that info on the MSDS the hair on the back of my neck stood up and got goose bumps all over:banana I'm the only pyro here. Calcium Hypoclorite is available over the counter as you know. I currently have a mulit fuel stove in the works/back burner. I'm surprised you hav'nt come up with a better/different fuel for stoves.

Thank You JAK and DancesWithMice for your help. We learned alot here this week. "We Ventured We Gained"

Dances with Mice

08-24-2007, 12:18

I'm surprised you hav'nt come up with a better/different fuel for stoves. Publicizing my dilithium crystal stove would violate time travel protocols.

Lanthar Mandragoran

08-24-2007, 17:28

Of more interest to me is wondering why nobody's running with the calcium hypochlorite / alcohol combination that Zelp posted. Imagine a stove that didn't need a spark or match to light, with the possiblity of an explosion! Solid pool chlorine tabs and a controlled drip of alcohol and you're off and cooking. Somebody has to take that idea and run with it.

Run away from my direction though, please.

My dad and I lit many a campfire (and gave my mom ulcers) with chlorine pool shock and automatic transmission fluid.

I was actually thinking the opposite way... simply toss a couple granules into some alcohol and don't worry about the match...

Lanthar Mandragoran

08-24-2007, 17:29

(and gave my mom ulcers)

:eek: Just for clarfication, it wasn't by feeding it too her... it was from seeing my dad and I leap off the back patio and out of the way of a 6' fireball...

Dances with Mice

08-24-2007, 18:35

... it was from seeing my dad and I leap off the back patio and out of the way of a 6' fireball... Now that's what I'm talking about! We just need to contain and control.

Zelph, this might not be a in-the-garage kind of project.

Skidsteer

08-24-2007, 18:40

Now that's what I'm talking about! We just need to contain and control.

Zelph, this might not be a in-the-garage kind of project.

I hope the warning didn't come too late!
http://hikinghq.net/forum/images/smilies2/heeeelllllooooo.gif

zelph

08-25-2007, 12:32

I hope the warning didn't come too late!
http://hikinghq.net/forum/images/smilies2/heeeelllllooooo.gif

I'm ok!!!!!!http://hikinghq.net/forum/images/smilies2/heeeelllllooooo.gifI will try it soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Outside

Magnesium Powder works great, 5,000 degrees right where you want.

wrongway_08

08-25-2007, 12:53

Very cool, have you taken a weight of your burner/cup and holder as a complete combo?
Really cool. Just bought the jet boil combo, but this has my attention :-? !

* Sorry, my bad, I was reading page 4 or 5, got cought up and posted without reading the last 5 pages!

Dances with Mice

08-25-2007, 17:48

... Isoprop's denatured mostly with methanol...Aw, c'mon guys! When I write something totally stupid, jack me up on it. You know I'd do the same for you. Isoprop's denatured with, uh, isopropanol, I guess.

Ethanol, on the other hand, is denatured mostly with methanol...

Skidsteer

08-25-2007, 18:01

Aw, c'mon guys! When I write something totally stupid, jack me up on it. You know I'd do the same for you. Isoprop's denatured with, uh, isopropanol, I guess.

Ethanol, on the other hand, is denatured mostly with methanol...

I figured it got slow at the lab and you guys started farting in the isopro. Oh wait. That's methane. Nevermind.

Shelters suck!

zelph

08-25-2007, 21:52

Aw, c'mon guys! When I write something totally stupid, jack me up on it. You know I'd do the same for you. Isoprop's denatured with, uh, isopropanol, I guess.

Ethanol, on the other hand, is denatured mostly with methanol...

We be polite!!!!!!

We saw what was written and knew what you meant, We think:-?

I know this is magnesium burning.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_magnesiummgwk002.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/magnesiummgwk002.jpg)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_magnesiummgwk001.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/magnesiummgwk001.jpg)dual burner underneath as preheater

The website that I'm working on will have a section for conventional stoves and un-conventional stoves. A section for pyros to submit their best:D

zelph

10-28-2007, 14:55

Recently someone asked me about where to get certain items for making a Ring of Fire. It's good to get reminded of certain stoves:)

Recent family matters have kept me away from providing stoves to the general public. I act on the fast and easy stuff.:confused:

For those that may still be interested in making their own, the baking pans used in the EasyBake ovens will work. There are two different sizes in the depth of the pans. Diameters are the same. I've seen replacement pans avilable on ebay, 2 for $10.00, too pricey:mad:

Look in the thrift stores, there is where you can find them with the entire oven for under $5.00, don't pay any more than that.

Use automotive/boat repair fiberglass cloth for the wick. Have it stick up 1/8 inch and use 2 layers wrapped around inside of tin.

This is just a reminder: All the heat goes up the sides of the pot. There is no flame that touches the bottom of the pot. Some stove makers are in denial of this fact. They keep teaching the newbies that it's bad. It's OK for heat to go up the sides of the pot. The sides absorb heat. This stove proves that.

zelph

10-29-2007, 11:52

Did one test boil. 17ml of fuel boiled 2 cups in 9.5 min. Water was about 45 degrees, ambient air was same. In the garage testing facility.

Note all the flame is on the outside of the pot, none under it. Heat on the outside of the pot is ok. The sides absorb heat.

Here are photos of baking pan with fire:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/stnax082.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/stnax081.jpg

.

spchtr

10-31-2007, 05:58

zelph

11-02-2007, 14:44

Yep, I think some of the stove guys who are in denial aren't looking at stuff that's been around for years, hell, centuries likely. Old Dutch Ovens sometimes will have a lip around the rim of the lid to help hold burning coals on the top of the lid to assist in heating the oven, they usually have feet too so that you get some airflow underneath for the coals under there too.

I wonder if there's anything like a dutch oven for hikers, that's lightweight, and designed to be placed directly in/under the fire.

Let's ask Sam. Hey Sam, what's the latest on something to use on the trails for DOin it?

I spent the past few days imbedded in the woods:)

Used my Ring of Fire to heat cans of goodies right now, no waiting for nothin. Clam chowder and ravioli.

I had been collecting some containers to try. When I got back home I tried one of them for heating cans of foos. These stoves are not limited to hiking by no means. think emergency preparedness. You have plenty of canned goods in storage at home. Power goes out, bring out the fuel and away you go.

The latest container I used come from The Pampered Chef. It's one of the end caps from the valtrompia bread tube. Makes for a great can heater.

The bread tube idea is something I'm going to try with the Ring of Fire and a Fosters can as the oven. A tube of bread in the Fosters oven, why not? Should work.

I forgot my windscreen, had to improvise

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/stnax124.jpgThis is a ring of fire encircling your pot. clean burning, no flames flickering heare and there.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/stnax122.jpgPampered Chef bread tube tin being used.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/stnax121.jpgBread tube with ends detached.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/stnax110.jpgFlame comes up high because of smaller size diameter pot being used. works good in a pinch though.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/stnax094.jpgThe original size for Heineken Pots

spchtr

11-06-2007, 10:50

spchtr

11-06-2007, 10:54

another quick question. Anyone out there do pancakes on the trail? I know packing in syrup might be a bit heavy, depending, but powdered sugar would be pretty nice. Or how about crepes? Fill one pan with water, bring to a boil, touch bottom of pan to surface of crepe batter. A possibility perhaps, but I might be worried about soot with that one.

zelph

11-06-2007, 15:37

I've noticed that most baking for backpacking seems to be done with water under the item being baked, probably for better heat transfer. Could something like a double boiler work for it, or do you think the steam should completely encase the baking container? Are you planning on trying some kind of stand inside the ring of fire can, with water underneath to bake in that tin, or will you try it without as well?

Just curious is all, I've never baked in something so small, and imagine that the water would probably help quite a bit. I know tinny's baked in a grease pot on top of an aluminum spiral I'm just not sure if he used water in it for heat transfer or not.

I'm going to place a fosters beer can inside the Ring of Fire. I'll reduce the amount of flame by 50 percent at first try. I'll test the temperature inside the Fosters can by using a heat probe. I'll be shooting for a temperature around 400 hundred degrees. I'll be using aluminum tubes made from Redbull energy drink cans, tops and bottoms removed. Tubes will be lined with recycled release paper used on packaged cheese slices. Might try olive oil as a release/nonstick agent also. Maybe spray them with "Pam"

I've baked donut shaped biscuts in a 1 egg sized egg poacher. A spinoff of that will work. If you could find a two egg poacher that would be the ideal size pot for your main cook pot and poacher and baker pot:)

The single egg poacher holds 1 cup of water.