Favorite way to add/create tie outs?

[Fenrir]

Hey guys, just got a visqueen tarp :banana. The only problem is of course, no tie outs! I know that a pebble/acorn/tarp clip etc... could be used or pound in gromets are avaliable, but I'm concerned that the first would wear too much over the course of a thru and that pound in grommets would tear. Is there some mysterious third option that I don't know about? Or are either of these feasable?

Thanks

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I've never had a metal pound-in gormet tear out and some of my homemade gear has thousands of miles on it. I have had plastic gormets break when cold. I have used the pebble / acorn method, but like you fear it would not be a good idea during a thru hike.

[Fenrir]

Thanks, thats exactly the kind of info I was looking for! The grommets I find at REI are sized 1 (5/16" internal diameter) or 0 (1/4" internal diameter), which did you use? Thanks for the help

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I bought mine at a fabric store - they had a 6mm hole per the container. 6 mm is about 1/4". Both of the REI gormmets you mention should be fine for a tarp.

[shelterbuilder]

Have you thought about buying some 3/4 inch welded rings and some sort of hem facing/twill tape? Cut a short length of tape, double it back on itself, and sew the ring into the end of this "open loop". Then sew the tape onto the tarp seams with a bar-tack. It should be plenty strong, and it won't weaken the fabric like a pound-through grommet.

[Mountain Gal]

Or you could try these:
http://shelter-systems.com/gripclips/

[shelterbuilder]

Or you could try these:
http://shelter-systems.com/gripclips/
Now that's one of the coolest tarp clips I've ever seen. Are they new?

[Fenrir]

Thanks Mountain gal, I've seen those clips, but I'm concerned over the wear factor involved over a long hike, any idea if these would wear less than conventional clips? Shelterbuilder, its been a long time since I've sewn anything, but I don't think that visqueen will take stitching very well. If anyone knows if it can be sewn please let me know as sewing tieouts in any maner seems like more work but stronger.


Thanks

[slowroller]

You might try the Sheet bend knot. I have used this knot with poly tarps in very high wind and never had it come loose. I pack mine up with the lines still attached, it has worked well for me...

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Fenrir, I missed the fact that your tarp is visqueen at first - you will need some sort of reinforcement to add gormmets as visqueen is a sheet of polycarbonate instead of a woven fabric - it will stretch out of shape and the metal gormmets will pul out in heavy wind.

[sparky2000]

How did the old old timers get by with a whool blanket thrown over the shoulder, a can of beans, and a kiss good-bye?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Granma Gatewood used a plastic shower curtain as her tarp! Wonder how she did it? (She was well-known for Yoging invites into homes and sleeping on porches some, but you know she had to use the wool army blanket under the tarp sometimes)

[Tobit]

Granma Gatewood used a plastic shower curtain as her tarp! Wonder how she did it? (She was well-known for Yoging invites into homes and sleeping on porches some, but you know she had to use the wool army blanket under the tarp sometimes)
I wonder if that is how Ron @ Six Moon came up with the name "Gatewood Cape"?

- T

[HikeLite]

duh...........................lol


I wonder if that is how Ron @ Six Moon came up with the name "Gatewood Cape"?

- T

[Fenrir]

Thanks guys for the advice, slow roller, I'll try the sheet bend, but it seems like it'd only be OK for corners what about tie outs along the long side? I picked up some gaffers tape that I'm hoping will reinforce the visqueen sufficently, but I guess we'll see how that goes. But do you guys have a recommendation from personal experience, or just seeing other tarps on how far apart to place grommets?


Thanks

[tanpuma]

Don't forget the great thing about tarping with poly is its cheap and easily repaired and replaced. Try out the different methods and leave one up in your yard. whatever survives works. For instance using a acorn will attract chewing animals, how do I know that? uh there is a corner missing from my tarp. If you destroy your tarp , recycle it with the bag recycling program.
I have had grommets rip out under storm conditions, but that was a cheesy cheap blue tarp. A better grommet may work, but buttons are light and can be had for free or cheap. Where to put tie outs depends on your use.

[shelterbuilder]

Thanks guys for the advice, slow roller, I'll try the sheet bend, but it seems like it'd only be OK for corners what about tie outs along the long side? I picked up some gaffers tape that I'm hoping will reinforce the visqueen sufficently, but I guess we'll see how that goes. But do you guys have a recommendation from personal experience, or just seeing other tarps on how far apart to place grommets?
Thanks

"Standard" grommet spacing is about 3 feet these days, but I agree with tanpuma: your spacing would be determined by how you want to use your tarp. I have no experience working with visqueen, so I can't offer any hints. Sorry.

[Quiet Chuck]

Thin Bungee cord on the corners work nice.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

First, I have no experience with visqueen. I echo what others have said about placing gormmets where you will need them based on how you like to tarp. I usually put a gormmet on the corner, a second set of gormmets indented 8 to 10" away from the corner gormmets and a couple evenly spaced in the remainder of the length plus one at the centerline. This allows me to do all of my favorite pitches and to make a 'beak' in bad weather (by usingthe indented gormmets at the bottom edge and the center gormmets for the apex)

[zelph]

Hey guys, just got a visqueen tarp :banana. The only problem is of course, no tie outs! I know that a pebble/acorn/tarp clip etc... could be used or pound in gromets are avaliable, but I'm concerned that the first would wear too much over the course of a thru and that pound in grommets would tear. Is there some mysterious third option that I don't know about? Or are either of these feasable?

Thanks

My choice is the larger grommet, make sure you use solid brass grommets not brass plated steel. The solid brass are softer and will form and seal much better than the plated steel. The larger the grommet, the more surface of the visqween it will hold onto to distribute the pulling pressure of your tie outs.(MY experience)

Use a heavy laminating material (http://www.laminator.com/Laminating-Pouches.asp)to reinforce the area that you add the grommet to. Laminating pouches have worked well for me. They can be found at office supply stores. ask the sales associate where to find them. The material is easy to work with, it's Self Adhesive (Pressure Sensitive). Buy and use the heaviest mil they have. The same with your Visqueen, use the heaviest mil thickness that you can find. Get something you can depend on.

Another thing to use for reinforcing is carpet seaming tape. Use the self stick kind. (http://www.acehardware.com/sm-ace-carpet-seaming-tape-50-50049--pi-1286647.html)

[tanpuma]

I forgot to mention, I always use a bungee or section of bike inner tube for each ground tie out. I use a small section tied in , so that at full stretch the line is the stopping point in case of failure. this is supposed to relieve stress, and it keeps the stakes from pulling out. Proper pitch with the wind in mind keeps the tarp from flapping allover too. There is a great tarp 101 link somewhere, with all kinds of different ways to pitch your tarp. I studied that and the Jardine book, and came up with the tie/ wrap tarp on the tree method, a tree makes the best stake of all.

[Fenrir]

Thanks again for all the great information! I have gorilla tape right now, is that close enough? I got brass grommets, but haven't put them in yet. Tanpuma or Quiet Chuck, could you please elaborate on your use of bungees or bike tubes? I don't really understand? You tie the bungee to the grommet then the guy out to the bungee? Thanks for all the tips

[Colter]

I have spent a whole lot of nights sleeping beneath tarps made of visqueen tied up with nothing but cord and sheet bend knots. Usually the tarp was tied out in an A-frame style, at the four corners and the two peaks. If it was in a very windy spot I'd tie sheet bend knots in the center of the long sides.

In my opinion the sheet bend knot beats the pants off the pebble method. The harder the pull the tighter it holds.

[Fenrir]

Thanks Colter for the info! Sheetbend seems like the way to go, at least for now. I've been curious about sheetbends near the center, its good to know that it works.

Thanks

[Quiet Chuck]

You tie the bungee to the grommet then the guy out to the bungee? Thanks for all the tips


As you said, I used the cheap small bungees the ones you see @ Wal-mart about 7" long as thick as the shock cord you see inside tentpoles. Cut off 1 hook, roll around the grommet & secure with wire. run your guy line to the hook & then out to your stakes. I use 4 corners and 2 mid-points and it seems to hold good tention on my tarp.
Hope I explained myself right.

Be advised bungees loose there stretch as the get older.