View Full Version : Internet Archive of Trailplace.com
TJ aka Teej
08-05-2007, 18:57
If anyone is interested in seeing past content:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://trailplace.com
Appalachian Tater
08-05-2007, 19:01
Not much of the site archived there. I would suggest that if there was anything unique or irreplaceable there, Google it now and save it or post the information here. It would be a shame for the knowledge to be lost. Maybe whoever buys the domain names will be allowed to leave the old site up as an archive.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-05-2007, 19:15
Does anyone know what server housed the Trailplace database? If it was on a rented server, the info may have already been erased.
Appalachian Tater
08-05-2007, 19:21
Does anyone know what server housed the Trailplace database? If it was on a rented server, the info may have already been erased.
Even more reason to save the Google archive of anything extraordinary that was there! I would be glad to help if someone is willing to give suggestions on anything in particular that needs to be tracked down and saved.
7Sisters
08-06-2007, 22:27
I just went to the web.archive site listed above. While I did find some content, I couldn't drill down too far. It was frustrating.
Scrollner
08-06-2007, 23:53
It also seemed to end in 2006
Alligator
08-07-2007, 08:06
I was wondering how big the whole forum might be? A friend of Wingfoots might encourage him to possibly get the whole forum to archive.org. Depending on size, could it fit on a DVD? Those of you who are feeling at a loss might be able to convince Wingfoot to get the site properly archived.
TJ aka Teej
08-07-2007, 08:42
The Way Back Machine can be extremely complete for 'top' pages', and frustratingly empty of 'deep content'. Looks like it didn't archive TP very well.
I sent Wingfoot a letter today asking him about the site, not sure what good it will do, but I wanted to say thankyou and added something in there about the site.
Kirby
I also wrote to Wingfoot today asking about some of his data due to the fact that I posted some of his articles here on WhiteBlaze and I asked his permission to post them on WhiteBlaze.
I got a response back from someone saying this, “Dan's materials are being made available through the Trailplace.com website for now”. I don’t know who is running his web site or is sending these replies.
I got this response yesterday and still do not see them available.
The Weasel
08-08-2007, 01:51
I think there are two key facts, before anyone gets too involved in trying to get archival materials from Trailplace:
First, I think there is very little that is really of much value, independent of what is already here at WhiteBlaze. Most is about gear (like here), shelters and towns (like here), and the other minutae of the Trail (like here). Given the fairly long history of WhiteBlaze by now, the archives here have almost everything that TP has.
Second - and this is not a slam - but Dan has shown very little interest in the past in truly working with anyone else, or assisting other groups. He's a solo act, and admirable in many ways for that. But I have seen little evidence of real friendships between him and others; there are many who like him, and perhaps even more who admire him, but in terms of any evidence of productive back-and-forth relationships, I have seen almost no one (read: no one) indicate that they were truly friends with him. So any capture of any of the "archive" is likely to be more of a business-like thing, if at all, and should be best approached in that manner rather than out of calls for affection or friendship that may not really exist between Dan and others.
Almost certainly whatever remains of TP and its communications are from Dan, particulalry if they are laconic and not particularly warm. I think WB would be best served by waiting for any offers, and not being disappointed if Dan chooses not to make them. He knows where WB is, and how to reach those who, like you Troll, matter.
The Weasel
Here is the full email that I got from the webmaster of TrailPlace after I asked to publish his articles on WhiteBlaze so that would not be lost to the Appalachian trail community forever.
Dan's materials are covered by U.S. copyright and are not to be posted online or reproduced in any manner without his permission. Dan's materials are being made available through the Trailplace.com website for now.
I then asked permission to use them and the answer I got was:
Permission denied.
I have removed all the articles from WhiteBlaze since we were denied to use them. I will honor his request. It is a shame that Dan has chosen to leave the Appalachian Trail community in a manner, where he does not want to help even on his way out the door.
Some Links I Found:
Trailplace.com-Hiker Resources (http://web.archive.org/web/20041231174356/www.trailplace.com/portal/display.php?page=resources_index)
About the Trail (http://web.archive.org/web/20050211044918/www.trailplace.com/portal/display.php?page=aboutat_index)
Forum (http://web.archive.org/web/20060112083756/www.trailplace.com/portal/forum.php)
7Sisters
08-08-2007, 07:08
Veteran,
I just tried to access the pages you got and tried to drill down to the shuttle drivers and had to login with my account. When I tried that it said the information was not made archived.
Argggg
Toolshed
08-08-2007, 07:26
....Second - and this is not a slam - but Dan has shown very little interest in the past in truly working with anyone else, or assisting other groups. He's a solo act, and admirable in many ways for that. But I have seen little evidence of real friendships between him and others; there are many who like him, and perhaps even more who admire him, but in terms of any evidence of productive back-and-forth relationships, I have seen almost no one (read: no one) indicate that they were truly friends with him. So any capture of any of the "archive" is likely to be more of a business-like thing, if at all, and should be best approached in that manner rather than out of calls for affection or friendship that may not really exist between Dan and others. ....
The Weasel
Excellent statement!! I think it is summed up perfectly here.
Your eloquency with word is exceeded only by your ability to argue case law!!!:D
7Sisters,
I agree that the archived files are of little use. Besides being 1.5 years out-of-date, many of the links are dead-ends, or require authentication.
I understand your frustration in no longer being able to access information at Trailplace, which you had come to rely on. Take solace in knowing that much of the information Wingfoot posted was not proprietary information, and is available from other sources. This is not to belittle Wingfoot's work; many have benefited by his writings and organization of information. However by surveying other online AT resources, you will find the information you're looking for.
The ATC (http://www.appalachiantrail.org) maintains a shuttle list (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.806835/k.10F4/Getting_to_the_Trail.htm), on its website. It was last updated on July 23, 2007, so it may be the most current list available anywhere. Take some time to explore the ATC site, and if you don't find the information you're looking for, someone here, at WB, will be able to help you.
Welcome to WB.
Johnny Thunder
08-08-2007, 09:40
At my day job I hear about "Web 2.0" on a daily basis. It will be interesting to see what kind of standards are put in place to help prevent situations like this from happening in the future. I can understand a lot of dissappointment coming from those who contributed their time and efforts in creating the Trailplace Knowledge Base. Since TP (and WB) are free services users don't really have a legal leg to stand on...But, the industry is going to self-correct to encourage, "the democratic sharing of expertise" (probably the best way I've seen the principles of Web 2.0 described).
Alligator
08-08-2007, 10:14
I think there are two key facts, before anyone gets too involved in trying to get archival materials from Trailplace:
First, I think there is very little that is really of much value, independent of what is already here at WhiteBlaze. Most is about gear (like here), shelters and towns (like here), and the other minutae of the Trail (like here). Given the fairly long history of WhiteBlaze by now, the archives here have almost everything that TP has.
Second - and this is not a slam - but Dan has shown very little interest in the past in truly working with anyone else, or assisting other groups. He's a solo act, and admirable in many ways for that. But I have seen little evidence of real friendships between him and others; there are many who like him, and perhaps even more who admire him, but in terms of any evidence of productive back-and-forth relationships, I have seen almost no one (read: no one) indicate that they were truly friends with him. So any capture of any of the "archive" is likely to be more of a business-like thing, if at all, and should be best approached in that manner rather than out of calls for affection or friendship that may not really exist between Dan and others.
Almost certainly whatever remains of TP and its communications are from Dan, particulalry if they are laconic and not particularly warm. I think WB would be best served by waiting for any offers, and not being disappointed if Dan chooses not to make them. He knows where WB is, and how to reach those who, like you Troll, matter.
The WeaselRegarding your first point, The Weasel, your concept of value surely differs from others. There are other people expressing disappointment in the possible loss of access to a complete TP archive.
Further, given a different membership base, a different set of operating rules, an entirely different set of opinions, the multitude of thread topics, the varied gear comparisons, etc., it's very difficult to believe that a parallel evolution of forums has occurred. There are people who valued that community. A good neighbor like WB can easily accomodate a thread or two for those transplants interested in working toward an archive solution. Attroll in particular is showing a lot of class here.
Regarding your second point, there's some merit there, it's difficult to determine what approach will work to get TP archived. But it's a little rude and presumptious to suggest that Dan ain't got no frie..ends, Dan ain't got no frie..ends:( .
I was never a member at TP, but I do think there will be a loss to a subset of the AT community if the site does not get archived. It just seems like a tremendous waste IMHO.
7Sisters
08-08-2007, 10:31
7Sisters,
I agree that the archived files are of little use. Besides being 1.5 years out-of-date, many of the links are dead-ends, or require authentication.
I understand your frustration in no longer being able to access information at Trailplace, which you had come to rely on. Take solace in knowing that much of the information Wingfoot posted was not proprietary information, and is available from other sources. This is not to belittle Wingfoot's work; many have benefited by his writings and organization of information. However by surveying other online AT resources, you will find the information you're looking for.
The ATC (http://www.appalachiantrail.org) maintains a shuttle list (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.806835/k.10F4/Getting_to_the_Trail.htm), on its website. It was last updated on July 23, 2007, so it may be the most current list available anywhere. Take some time to explore the ATC site, and if you don't find the information you're looking for, someone here, at WB, will be able to help you.
Welcome to WB.
Thanks for the welcome - I think i've already been baptized under fire on another forum related to TP :) . Having said that, the information that I would like to most retrieve is people I knew. I would like to direct them to this site. There were phone numbers I had kept in private messages. I was planning on doing a presentation to some boy scouts about the AT. The contact info for the troop leader was in a PM.
It's those types of information that I would like to get access to. That's one of the frustrations I have with how the closing was handled. :mad:
But truly - thank you for your welcome.
The Weasel
08-08-2007, 13:04
Regarding your first point, The Weasel, your concept of value surely differs from others. There are other people expressing disappointment in the possible loss of access to a complete TP archive.
Further, given a different membership base, a different set of operating rules, an entirely different set of opinions, the multitude of thread topics, the varied gear comparisons, etc., it's very difficult to believe that a parallel evolution of forums has occurred. There are people who valued that community. A good neighbor like WB can easily accomodate a thread or two for those transplants interested in working toward an archive solution. Attroll in particular is showing a lot of class here.
Regarding your second point, there's some merit there, it's difficult to determine what approach will work to get TP archived. But it's a little rude and presumptious to suggest that Dan ain't got no frie..ends, Dan ain't got no frie..ends:( .
I was never a member at TP, but I do think there will be a loss to a subset of the AT community if the site does not get archived. It just seems like a tremendous waste IMHO.
Alligator (and others, of course):
First, everyone's concept of value is different, of course. But I've been a member of TrailPlace since 1998, and while visits in the last couple of years have only been sporadic - every few weeks or so - that has been largely because the site had almost nothing to offer that isn't found here. While there are some - like the post above - who have suffered some real inconvenience on a personal basis, I just don't think there will be a significant loss of information to Trail users generally. Based on that, I'm not sure if there is a great reason to invest a huge amount of time "saving" it.
Second, there is a real 'I lost a site that meant a lot to me' factor for a lot of TP users who looked to that as their 'shelter campfire', and who aren't familiar here at WB. I know how I felt when WB went down for a couple of days, and I missed it. But this is a site that welcomes just about any ol' thing that comes along (you and I are good examples of THAT!), and I have hopes that our free-for-all attitude will make them realize that they have found what they need, whatever that is.
Lastly, what I said about Dan's very individualistic attitude and lack of 'site friends' wasn't rude, but was an (I think) accurate description of how he has functioned with TP over the years. He is a solo act, and while I am sure he has friends (he's a good guy and deserves them) he has never demonstrated a functionally cooperative attitude to make actions 'joint' ones. So appeals by "a friend" to "save" TP may be hard to accomplish. It looks to me like he is more interested, to be frank, in cash. And for any meaningful amount of cash, there has to be something of value. About that, see above.
If someone has the time and the money to engage in this, I wish them well. I think, however, that it may be best to look back, be glad for what was good and happy about Trailplace, and, like an old shelter that, no longer used, remains as a fond memory of the best of the AT, rests in its own gentle peace.
The Weasel
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-08-2007, 13:14
....the information that I would like to most retrieve is people I knew. I would like to direct them to this site. There were phone numbers I had kept in private messages. I was planning on doing a presentation to some boy scouts about the AT. The contact info for the troop leader was in a PM.
It's those types of information that I would like to get access to. That's one of the frustrations I have with how the closing was handled. :mad: It is situations like this that came to my mind when I mentioned someone who is on good terms with WF contacting him regarding the current location of the database. I have gone thru a site going down permanently and without notice before (not AT or hiking related) and lost a lot of info in PMs. I feel your pain, 7Sisters.
-SEEKER-
08-08-2007, 13:23
Wow! I just discovered that TP is gone. I was shocked! I agree with 7Sisters in that I will miss the people that I had become familiar with and gained knowledge from. I also had some important info in my private messeges. Guess that will teach me to write things down or print them off. Well I'm very glad that I found this site and hope to meet new people here in addition to those from TP.
Cyndie
Toolshed
08-08-2007, 13:36
To further, but not belabor, TW's point, why didn't Wingfoot give us advance (yes even I begrudgingly joined back 3-4 years after I was first kicked off, stalwart curmudgeon that I am) that he was closing the site - even just a week's notice for those who would like to back up some info/PM's??!??! :-?
I also wholeheartedly agree that WB will provide much more information from a more varied selection of sources - There are a lot of archived threads here as well as trail related databases/lists. And, if one subscribes as a donor, even more threads.
Alligator
08-08-2007, 13:38
...If someone has the time and the money to engage in this, I wish them well. I think, however, that it may be best to look back, be glad for what was good and happy about Trailplace, and, like an old shelter that, no longer used, remains as a fond memory of the best of the AT, rests in its own gentle peace.
The WeaselIMO you almost hit the nail on the head here. TP might be likened to an old shelter register. These are often saved with the simple cost of postage. I wondered earlier in the thread what archiving might entail. DVD-R's are cheap. I've gotten 10 for less than 50 cents each. That's 50 gigs or so. Could it be bigger than that?? The 10 DVD boxed set of TP $19.95 plus postage! LOL.
The Weasel
08-08-2007, 14:01
Wow! I just discovered that TP is gone. I was shocked! I agree with 7Sisters in that I will miss the people that I had become familiar with and gained knowledge from. I also had some important info in my private messeges. Guess that will teach me to write things down or print them off. Well I'm very glad that I found this site and hope to meet new people here in addition to those from TP.
Cyndie
Cyndie ---
Welcome to WhiteBlaze! I think you'll find a lot of your friends from TP show up here, and many with the same names. Use the "search" or "member list" functions here to check.
And Frolicking Dino (the moderator of this thread)------- it would be EXCELLENT to create a special - promiinent - thread for "Trail Place Member Register And Hello Room" or like that, and for there to be a special message on Log In from Troll about that, for all TP users to see, so people like Cyndie can find their friends. It MUST tell the rest of us to STAY OUT (yeah, a different color?) and let the TPs find each other...they can share emails of others, so forth.
The Weasel
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-08-2007, 14:16
Weasel, only owner / admins - not mods - can create forums with differing backgrounds and resricted membership. The admins are Dixicritter, Rock and ATTroll. I doubt this will happen real soon if it happens - it is a lot of work. Rock is travelling today, Dixie is getting ready to see Rock for the first time since May so ATTroll is doing everything by himself.
May I suggest the members of TP meet up on the Grieving for TP thread (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26568) in this forum.
the information that I would like to most retrieve is people I knew. I would like to direct them to this site. There were phone numbers I had kept in private messages. I was planning on doing a presentation to some boy scouts about the AT. The contact info for the troop leader was in a PM.
It's those types of information that I would like to get access to. That's one of the frustrations I have with how the closing was handled. :mad:
This could be the reason why he is not letting his users not have access to his web site anymore. It is not big secret that Wingfoot did not like WhiteBlaze and for what ever reason we can only speculate. I have no doubt that he would do what ever it takes not to help WhiteBlaze. I am not saying this to start a bashing thread. I am jsut saying this a fact.
Scrollner
08-08-2007, 17:33
I am another TP transplant that will miss the site. I had alot of info in PM's saved there that I would like to retrieve, including a hike plan I was given and was going to use later this year. I sent a letter to WF today asking that he make the archives available to registered members of the old site for a set period of time, maybe 30 days. Don't know if it will do any good, but figured I'd give it a try. Bottom line I guess is that it's his site, and he has the right to do with it what he wants - legally. I guess in the words of Jimmy Buffet, its time to "Breathe in, breathe out, move on"
The Weasel
08-08-2007, 17:44
Weasel, only owner / admins - not mods - can create forums with differing backgrounds and resricted membership. The admins are Dixicritter, Rock and ATTroll. I doubt this will happen real soon if it happens - it is a lot of work. Rock is travelling today, Dixie is getting ready to see Rock for the first time since May so ATTroll is doing everything by himself.
May I suggest the members of TP meet up on the Grieving for TP thread (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26568) in this forum.
FD, don't teach the teacher...esp while the peasants are rioting while you're in the clink after attempting to eat your County Commission. I know who can do things...but if you ask, it will happen.
The Weasel
The Weasel
08-08-2007, 17:46
This could be the reason why he is not letting his users not have access to his web site anymore. It is not big secret that Wingfoot did not like WhiteBlaze and for what ever reason we can only speculate. I have no doubt that he would do what ever it takes not to help WhiteBlaze. I am not saying this to start a bashing thread. I am jsut saying this a fact.
From long experience here (with Troll) and TP, that is why I said what I said. TP users should not have any great hopes that WB will be able, under any set of facts, to get some or all of the past TP postings placed here.
The Weasel
Wow! I just discovered that TP is gone. I was shocked! I agree with 7Sisters in that I will miss the people that I had become familiar with and gained knowledge from. I also had some important info in my private messeges. Guess that will teach me to write things down or print them off. Well I'm very glad that I found this site and hope to meet new people here in addition to those from TP.
Cyndie
:welcome to WhiteBlaze Cyndie. I hope you will find many of your old friends here and many new friends too. You won't need to print out PMs here. You'll have a copy if you have email notification of PMs. I redirect mine to a WhiteBlaze folder just for that purpose in Internet Explorer.
See if you get a copy of my PM I'm about to send to you!
Skidsteer
08-08-2007, 19:29
:welcome to WhiteBlaze Cyndie. I hope you will find many of your old friends here and many new friends too. You won't need to print out PMs here. You'll have a copy if you have email notification of PMs. I redirect mine to a WhiteBlaze folder just for that purpose in Internet Explorer.
I do the same thing.
Note to new White Blazers:
E-mail notification only copies 'recieved PM's' to your e-mail program. You'll still need to back up 'sent' PM's.
Thank you for clarifying that important point. When sending a PM, if I want a copy, I add my screen name to my list of recipients.
I don't save everything as no small amount of what I send isn't worth saving. The PMs worth sending again to someone else stay in my sent items folder.
Donating increases storage capacity and in addition to editing is another desirable benefit of donating.
7Sisters
08-08-2007, 23:22
Having only been on WB for a few weeks, I am still getting used to this site. While I would be very pleased to see TP continue in some fashion, I truly doubt this.
One of the things I am struggling to get used to is the conversational approach and style of WB. IMO TP was a more focused site. This doesn't mean there isn't valuable information on WB. I've already gotten some great information about the Wonderland Trail. What I am trying to say is that it will take time to get used to the conversational approach and feel of this website.
There is certainly a lot more traffic here, which is nice. I'm also finding it difficult to navigate around the site and find the areas I really like - giving gear and trail advice. The Strict AT forum doesn't seem to have a lot of traffic that I have noticed.
Anyway, I'm glad I am here and have found another home, it will just take time to get used to this place and get used to the new feel. I would also like to add that I can see why WF would not like this site - there is a greater encouragement of a broader range of views around the usage of the trail.
Another FYI - as a dog owner, I am thrilled to see a forum for dog's on the trail. My 11 yr old yellow lab Cooper has hiked 1/4 of the trail. There is nothing like waking up in a tent with your pup.
So having said all that, I'm not looking for TP to continue under WF or an archived veiw of it. What I would like w/b to reconnect with my TP friends.
Hopefully my toes don't get bitten for straying off topic. I think I may have strayed a little bit. My apologies.
Nightwalker
08-08-2007, 23:30
Hopefully my toes don't get bitten for straying off topic. I think I may have strayed a little bit. My apologies.
I don't think that you've strayed just by commenting. Besides, Dino's breath is worse than her bite (ducking and rolling). :p
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-08-2007, 23:39
::: Dino burns Nightwalker's buns with breath :::
This thread has migrated some, but it is still about TP and it content and style.
I hope that the members from TP can re-connect here and we can get to know them as well. There are a lot of wonderful people here and it seems you had some wonderful people at TP.
Having only been on WB for a few weeks, I am still getting used to this site. While I would be very pleased to see TP continue in some fashion, I truly doubt this.
One of the things I am struggling to get used to is the conversational approach and style of WB. IMO TP was a more focused site. This doesn't mean there isn't valuable information on WB. I've already gotten some great information about the Wonderland Trail. What I am trying to say is that it will take time to get used to the conversational approach and feel of this website.
There is certainly a lot more traffic here, which is nice. I'm also finding it difficult to navigate around the site and find the areas I really like - giving gear and trail advice. The Strict AT forum doesn't seem to have a lot of traffic that I have noticed.
Anyway, I'm glad I am here and have found another home, it will just take time to get used to this place and get used to the new feel. I would also like to add that I can see why WF would not like this site - there is a greater encouragement of a broader range of views around the usage of the trail.
Another FYI - as a dog owner, I am thrilled to see a forum for dog's on the trail. My 11 yr old yellow lab Cooper has hiked 1/4 of the trail. There is nothing like waking up in a tent with your pup.
So having said all that, I'm not looking for TP to continue under WF or an archived veiw of it. What I would like w/b to reconnect with my TP friends.
Hopefully my toes don't get bitten for straying off topic. I think I may have strayed a little bit. My apologies.
7Sisters
Don't get me wrong I am not making excuses when I say this, but when you talk about TP and WB you are trying to compare aples to oranges. They are not the same.
Like you said we get a heck of a lot more traffic here on this site. We get on the average of 650 to 700 registered users coming to this site every day. That is only counting them one time for each day. This is not counting them if they come to the site 10 or 20 times a day to check it. This is 650 to 700 actual registered users. This is also not counting all the people that come to this this site that are not registered or just visiting. For an example of our stats on this web site for 06 August we recieved 444,423 hits to the web site and for that day we used 6.48 GB of bandwidth and that is just that day, you can figure the monthly averages.
When you get that much traffic compared to the traffic on TP then your going to have a whole different type of atmosphere then what they had on TP with a small group of users that they had. Don't get me wrong in what I am saying. I am sure they had a great group and I am sure and it was a great web site that too.
7Sisters
08-09-2007, 08:54
I am hearing you in the spirit that I believe you intended, which was not saying any one site was better, but that they are different. The pure volume traffic here makes a huge difference and really opens things up to lots of differing views.
In time I will get used to this and all will be good again. I have already received several warm welcomes and some great advice and encouragement. From that perspective I am already starting to feel at home here.
Thank you to all who have publicly and privately welcomed me here!