View Full Version : Sub - 1 lb of equipment; Is it still backpacking
Well its a long thread and a long trail.
I associate backpacking with consumerism.
So if I told you it was backpacking it wouldn't neccessarily be a compliment.
lonehiker
04-05-2008, 23:42
Backpacking isn't defined by the weight carried but rather purpose.
And, I personally wouldn't worry what Jax thinks of the subject. After reading hundreds of his posts, I have yet to read one that isn't gibberish.
fiddlehead
04-05-2008, 23:44
Now THAT made me laugh!
Backpacking isn't defined by the weight carried but rather purpose.
And, I personally wouldn't worry what Jax thinks of the subject. After reading hundreds of his posts, I have yet to read one that isn't gibberish.Pretty much sums up the purpose of this thread, doesn't it?
Communication, for the sake of miscommunication.
JAK,
As you may or may not have notice on this thread and on trail, some people don't consider this has still backpacking while others do. It is not going to stop me from continue to go hiking but I like to know if others think. More and more hikers I sure are going to be traveling just as light if not lighter. The question comes to mind is this backpacking or something else?
Wolf
ESL?!!! :confused::confused::D
Whatever we wish to call it, I have a pretty good sense of why we all hike.
Why we all keep posting in threads such as this, I haven't a friggin' clue.
I guess hiking is good for many things, but isn't a cure all.
Life still sucks.
Paul Bunyan
04-06-2008, 00:18
Really, what does it matter how much weight you carry? As long as it's enough for several days, without using other means of support, it still sounds like backpacking to me.
sounds like bull**** to me. post your gearlist.
exactly!
Wolf - 23000
04-06-2008, 01:38
ESL?!!! :confused::confused::D
ESL ??? :confused:
What is ESL???
Wolf
English as a Second Language.
Communication is rather like democracy. It's rather deceiving, even self deceiving, often times deliberately so, but its better than the alternatives. "Damn all motives, Ulterior ones, and others."
Isn't the journey that's important, not the destination, or what's on your back that's important?
Look at the comparisons with Grandma Gatewood in terms of today's availible equipment.
Blanket ... mine just happens to weigh 10 oz.
Shower Curtain liner as a tarp/raingear .... Cuben poncho and a 10 oz tent.
A denim bag she carried over her shoulder ..... my MOYG SUL pack.
She carried around 8 lbs ..... today's modern materials could have gotten that down to 3 lbs easy.
You wouldn't consider her a backpacker?
What did John Muir carry with him?
I look upon packweight as something that should meet with the goals of your trip. How much are you going to be hiking and how much are you going to be camping along the way?
If I'm gonna hike during every available moment of daylight, then carrying a chair kit probably isn't going to make a lot of sense .... because at my age I'm gonna be sleeping right after I eat dinner.
If I'm going out with friends and look to enjoy several evenings around a campfire, then my pack is gonna have extra comfort items in it and it's going to weigh more.
I have no doubt that Wolf can hike the JMT with an 18 ounce baseweight. He'd be spending a lot of time hiking and not much time camping would be my guess ... now me .... I'd be spending more time sleeping, so I'd want to carry a nicer pad, more insulation, and perhaps even a touch of scotch, simply for medicinal purposes, of course.
At some point I think the original question on this thread got lost. If I understand correctly the original question dealt with what defines backpacking and whether there was a threshold weight associated with it.
I think the word itself lends itself to the confusion. To call something backpacking, at least at first glance, implies carrying something on ones back. But I don't think the sport of backpacking necessitates this. For example, if one was to use a "front pack" or carry a duffle, I don't think we would need to invent new terms of "frontpacking" or "dufflehiking" to differentiate. The only other term related to the sport of Backpacking is hiking. But, since even on a short day hike, many of us carry some gear, food and water, I don't think simply carrying something elevates hiking to backpacking. Which leads me to what I believe is the real question in this matter: At what point does hiking become backpacking? For me the answer is not gear, nor is it weight, it is purpose. If I intend to spend at least part of my time sleeping in the wilderness then it is backpacking. If I only intend on walking, regardless of what gear I carry, and regardless of whether I do actually sleep in the bush (due to an emergency), it is hiking. Others may disagree, but this is my personal working definition as to whether an activity I engage in is backpacking or a hike. For practical purposes, I call both of them "therapy". I tell my wife, "I am going to the woods for some therapy". It matters not whether I am hiking miles slogging a 50lb pack or dragging a pulk with gear, or whether I am snowshoeing, skiing, canoeing, kayaking. My means of travel, the gear I bring, and how it is carried is dependent on where I am going and my intended purpose. While everyone else is arguing over what to call what I am doing, I will be enjoying myself.
/endofbabbling
Wilson,
First off, thank you for staying with the original topic. Second, in yours and anyone else who does not consider this as backpacking opinion, why would you consider this differently compare to someone traveling with say 30 pounds. Is there a certain weight limit that defines how much a backpacker must carry?
With lighter and lighter equipment available, I like to see as a WB whole, what determines if someone is a backpacker or not. Is it how much someone is carrying, how far they are traveling, or maybe a combination of both or something else. If these UL backpackers (for lack of a better word) are not backpackers then what are they? Is it a new sport? This is simple an opinion question on what defines a backpacker.
Wolf
For the sake of discussion, I was merely using a narrow definition of the traditional backpacker, pack, sleeping bag, mess kit, shelter, ect.
Can't see all that in less than a pound. If you can, then you have a goldmine on your hands.
What are they? I don't know..I think you've gone beyond UL.
Couple years ago I read of a few guys that went out with only the clothes on their back and would walk all night to stay warm, and sleep in the day when it was warm..they would forage as much food as they could find. They had a few techniques, there was a method to the madness. One fella did paying guided trips like this.
I would'nt call that backpacking.
A commuter is not a race car driver even tho they're both doing the same thing.
At some point I think the original question on this thread got lost. If I understand correctly the original question dealt with what defines backpacking and whether there was a threshold weight associated with it.
I think the word itself lends itself to the confusion. To call something backpacking, at least at first glance, implies carrying something on ones back. But I don't think the sport of backpacking necessitates this. For example, if one was to use a "front pack" or carry a duffle, I don't think we would need to invent new terms of "frontpacking" or "dufflehiking" to differentiate. The only other term related to the sport of Backpacking is hiking. But, since even on a short day hike, many of us carry some gear, food and water, I don't think simply carrying something elevates hiking to backpacking. Which leads me to what I believe is the real question in this matter: At what point does hiking become backpacking? For me the answer is not gear, nor is it weight, it is purpose. If I intend to spend at least part of my time sleeping in the wilderness then it is backpacking. If I only intend on walking, regardless of what gear I carry, and regardless of whether I do actually sleep in the bush (due to an emergency), it is hiking. Others may disagree, but this is my personal working definition as to whether an activity I engage in is backpacking or a hike. For practical purposes, I call both of them "therapy". I tell my wife, "I am going to the woods for some therapy". It matters not whether I am hiking miles slogging a 50lb pack or dragging a pulk with gear, or whether I am snowshoeing, skiing, canoeing, kayaking. My means of travel, the gear I bring, and how it is carried is dependent on where I am going and my intended purpose. While everyone else is arguing over what to call what I am doing, I will be enjoying myself.
/endofbabbling
Who's arguing?
At some point I think the original question on this thread got lost. If I understand correctly the original question dealt with what defines backpacking and whether there was a threshold weight associated with it.
I think the word itself lends itself to the confusion. To call something backpacking, at least at first glance, implies carrying something on ones back. But I don't think the sport of backpacking necessitates this. For example, if one was to use a "front pack" or carry a duffle, I don't think we would need to invent new terms of "frontpacking" or "dufflehiking" to differentiate. The only other term related to the sport of Backpacking is hiking. But, since even on a short day hike, many of us carry some gear, food and water, I don't think simply carrying something elevates hiking to backpacking. Which leads me to what I believe is the real question in this matter: At what point does hiking become backpacking? For me the answer is not gear, nor is it weight, it is purpose. If I intend to spend at least part of my time sleeping in the wilderness then it is backpacking. If I only intend on walking, regardless of what gear I carry, and regardless of whether I do actually sleep in the bush (due to an emergency), it is hiking. Others may disagree, but this is my personal working definition as to whether an activity I engage in is backpacking or a hike. For practical purposes, I call both of them "therapy". I tell my wife, "I am going to the woods for some therapy". It matters not whether I am hiking miles slogging a 50lb pack or dragging a pulk with gear, or whether I am snowshoeing, skiing, canoeing, kayaking. My means of travel, the gear I bring, and how it is carried is dependent on where I am going and my intended purpose. While everyone else is arguing over what to call what I am doing, I will be enjoying myself.
/endofbabblingI gotta disagree with you on a few points there.
There are many synonyms to backpacking. Some have similar meanings. In my own mind they have different conotations. I disagree most strongly that hiking, or the other terms, needs to be elevated to be backpacking. In my mind backpacking is the inferior term, because it puts the emphasis on all the consumer ****, whereas the other terms put the emphasis on the travelling.
1. Hiking
2. Tramping
3. Trekking
4. Trudging
5. Backpacking
6. Mountaineering
I got this idea from a book I read on architecture, that talked about the inferiority of living in buildings, versus living in dwellings. The essence of building is that they are built by builders, who rarely live in them. The essence of dwellings is that they are lived in, usually by the people that built them. I can't help but associate the term backpacking with all of the consumerism that unneccessarily works its way into hiking. First they sell you an overbuilt overweight backpack, with some features more suited to climbing than hiking. Then they sell you more unneccessary **** to put in it. That is backpacking.
Hiking is walking through the woods, first and foremost, or some other natural setting. It is about as natural an activity as we still undertake. What you need to facilitate that comes second, depending on the number of days and climate and terrain and so forth, but it is something we have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years. It does not need to be taken away and sold back to us, unless we let them.
Is it still backpacking? If it is, God help you.
I gotta disagree with you on a few points there.
There are many synonyms to backpacking. Some have similar meanings. In my own mind they have different conotations. I disagree most strongly that hiking, or the other terms, needs to be elevated to be backpacking. In my mind backpacking is the inferior term, because it puts the emphasis on all the consumer ****, whereas the other terms put the emphasis on the travelling.
1. Hiking
2. Tramping
3. Trekking
4. Trudging
5. Backpacking
6. Mountaineering
I got this idea from a book I read on architecture, that talked about the inferiority of living in buildings, versus living in dwellings. The essence of building is that they are built by builders, who rarely live in them. The essence of dwellings is that they are lived in, usually by the people that built them. I can't help but associate the term backpacking with all of the consumerism that unneccessarily works its way into hiking. First they sell you an overbuilt overweight backpack, with some features more suited to climbing than hiking. Then they sell you more unneccessary **** to put in it. That is backpacking.
Hiking is walking through the woods, first and foremost, or some other natural setting. It is about as natural an activity as we still undertake. What you need to facilitate that comes second, depending on the number of days and climate and terrain and so forth, but it is something we have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years. It does not need to be taken away and sold back to us, unless we let them.
Is it still backpacking? If it is, God help you.
I walk in the woods while hunting, looking for morels and trout fishing, I don't consider that hiking.
But I see your point, especially the consumerism. But That's not nesacarily a bad thing.
I see the marketing of gear particularly because I like to make my own gear, bows, arrows, tie my own flies...found this site cuz I wanted to start making some of my backpacking gear.
Backpacking is just a convienient term as far as I'm concerned.
saimyoji
04-06-2008, 22:52
Wolf, I couldn't go back and find how much / what food you took on those 12 days. Could you tell us?
fiddlehead
04-06-2008, 23:02
I figure most of you know that the most of the western world (besides the US) refers to the term "Backpacking" as travelling around and putting your stuff in a backpack and staying in hostels, traveling by train,bus,hitchiking, flying on those around the world tickets etc.
I am in a forum here in Thailand and last week someone posted a question asking if there's much of a backpacking scene in phuket. Well, i'm working on trying to talk the thailand dept. of tourism into building the first substantial trail here and there's not much interest from the expats and locals. SO, i assumed (and rightly so) that the OP meant the travellers who carry these huge backpacks and oftentimes one smaller one on the front. There's no way these people could do many miles as they seem to struggle just getting off a bus and go right to their guesthouse.
I think most of you know what kind of traveller i am talking about.
They call what we do "trekking".
But yes Wolf, i (when i'm in America) would call your hike a backpacking trip. why not? You probably had on a fanny pack but that's just another form of backpack to me.
I walk in the woods while hunting, looking for morels and trout fishing, I don't consider that hiking.
But I see your point, especially the consumerism. But That's not nesacarily a bad thing.
I see the marketing of gear particularly because I like to make my own gear, bows, arrows, tie my own flies...found this site cuz I wanted to start making some of my backpacking gear.
Backpacking is just a convienient term as far as I'm concerned.I agree also that I am alot more comfortable with the term when I make my own gear or do without or get basic functional stuff cheap. I would like to try something like Mount Carelton to Mount Katahdin without resupply some day, and would have no trouble calling that backpacking. I would have no problem calling that hiking either. In winter I call it trudging, unless I go on skis. I have an 6-7 pound backpack in my closet I think I paid $200 for. It is very ruggedly built and should last for years, in my closet. That tends to taint my views of backpacking.
whitefoot_hp
04-07-2008, 16:15
Wilson,
First off, thank you for staying with the original topic. Second, in yours and anyone else who does not consider this as backpacking opinion, why would you consider this differently compare to someone traveling with say 30 pounds. Is there a certain weight limit that defines how much a backpacker must carry?
With lighter and lighter equipment available, I like to see as a WB whole, what determines if someone is a backpacker or not. Is it how much someone is carrying, how far they are traveling, or maybe a combination of both or something else. If these UL backpackers (for lack of a better word) are not backpackers then what are they? Is it a new sport? This is simple an opinion question on what defines a backpacker.
Wolf
i say if you carry gear on your back, from 1 gram to one ton, you are backpacking :) (provided the gear on your back is in a pack)
Wolf - 23000
04-12-2008, 13:05
Wolf, I couldn't go back and find how much / what food you took on those 12 days. Could you tell us?
I was able to complete the JMT in 10 days – a little different than I had planned. Due to a problem obtaining permits and transportation I hiked from Red Meadows to Mount Whitney and then Red Meadows to Happy Isles to complete the JMT. I met some great hikers doing their first long distance backpacking trip. I wish them all well. After finishing my trip, I spent an extra 2 days just goofing off hiking else where in total, I hiked about 250 miles. For those of you that care, I left Red Meadows heading for Mount Whitney with 14 pounds 6 oz total pack weight – (7 days of food). And under 5 pounds heading from Red Meadows to Happy Isles making a stop for supplies at Tuolumne Meadows. My gear leaving Red Meadows weight was 18 oz not including what I was wearing on my back and the camera that I was carrying in my hand (I forgot to hand it over when I weight everything at the Post Office). During cold morning, while wearing my cold weather gear, my pack was less than one pound.
It rained on me 5 days out of 12 days hiking for a couple hours and haled on me once while climbing Mt Whitney. It rained on me more during this 210-mile trip than any single PCT thru-hike of CA. All well. What made my trip really special was just being out there with awesome views everywhere and the hikers I met. It’s fun seeing hikers just starting off, learning everything for the first time, getting use to trail life. It reminds me of my days just starting off as a thru-hikers. I’ve done many thru-hikes or long distance trips but I still look back at my first one as one of my best.
Carrying food was the biggest problem and has remains my biggest problem for years. Hiking this trip I wasn’t quite as light as I had planned but I know where to focus my attention - carrying food without it sitting in my pack like a block of rocks. Currently I have not found anything on the market that is design for ultra-light backpacking and carrying food comfortable. I may have to try my hands at designing my own type pack.
Wolf