Bladder and Kidney infection

[BumpJumper]

Seems to me that sweating and not drinking alot can cause a bladder or kidney infection on the trail.
Does this happen alot to hikers?

[Footslogger]

Seems to me that sweating and not drinking alot can cause a bladder or kidney infection on the trail.
Does this happen alot to hikers?

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Not really ...unless bacteria is introduced from the outside world the kidneys, ureter and bladder are pretty much bug free.

The nidus (nucleus/central zone) of some kidney stones have bacteria in them which can spread throughout the GU tract but that's a separate beast all together.

Bladder/Kidney infections on the trail would most likely result from poor hygeine rather than under hydration.

'Slogger

[SGT Rock]

Just had a kidney stone a couple of weeks ago. Passed it and was back on the trail. Damn them things hurt.

[Footslogger]

Just had a kidney stone a couple of weeks ago. Passed it and was back on the trail. Damn them things hurt.

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Tell me about it. Hiked the entire trail with serious kidney stone disease in 2003. Really got me down at times but I was just too awnry to quit. I had a history of smaller stones that would pass spontaneously during urination and I was somewhat "used to" that. But to my suprise, I had developed a golf ball sized stone internal to my kidney that could not pass and drop into the bladder. Small chips would break off and pass but the body of the stone stayed put. Had to have 2 surgeries when I got home from the trail to get rid of that sucker.

Oh, did I mention that I am much more careful with diet and hydration these days ????

'Slogger

[Old Grouse]

Guess they don't call him Sgt. Rock for nothing.

[JAK]

I just read the other day that oxalic acid, a poison found in many foods in varying concentrations, can lead to kidney stones when it combines with calcium. I learned that sometimes rinsing some foods after a long soak or a quick boil is more important than losing any calories. Depends on the food and the quantity. These are otherwise really healthy foods to. Everything in moderation, including moderation.

Regarding kidney and bladder infections though, I would say dehydration might not cause an infection, but staying healthy and well hydrated is a big part of preventing and getting rid of infections. But dehydration is very tough on the kidneys in other ways. Also the kidney can bear the brunt of a lot of other poor nutrition and activities, like bonking, and ketosis for example. Especially if your body needs to start utilizing protiens to feed the brain, which can't metabolize fat. That process is very tough on the kidneys, not just the muscles and organs the protiens come from. Sure they can handle it. These processes are natural and there for a reason. But of course everything in moderation.

The last thing we want to do is compromise healthy diet and hydration and exercise and recovery just because we are on a long hike or a thru-hike. It's supposed to be some crazy death wish. The woods and all that fresh water and fresh air and exercise, they are actually supposed to be good for you. ;)

[max patch]

Too much ibuprofun combined with not enough water can irritate the kidneys and lead to passing blood during urination.

[JAK]

Sorry abiut that.
I meant it's NOT supposed to be some crazy death wish.
Freudian slip. :)

[Footslogger]

[quote=JAK;399282]I just read the other day that oxalic acid, a poison found in many foods in varying concentrations, can lead to kidney stones when it combines with calcium.
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You are correct. A significant percentage of kidney stones are of CALCIUM OXOLATE MONOHYDRATE or DIHYDRATE composition.

The oxolate binds with the calcium and forms crystals that are NON water soluble. In other words ...all the hydration (with water) in the world won't dissolve the stones and allow you to eliminate them through normal urination.

The trick (if you are a calcium oxolate stone former) is to modify your diet such as to incorporate substances to which the oxolate has affinity that ARE water soluble. Such a substance is CITRATE, which is contained in a lot of citrus fruits/juices. Drinking lemonade is a good !!

'Slogger

[jnetx]

BumpJumper
As far as bladder infections go, I don’t think “cause” is exactly correct, but if you a female, and prone to bladder or yeast infections then hot and sweaty hiking conditions can exacerbate an existing problem.

As a teenager I had “indoor-itis” and a severe trekking disorder! Back then, we backpacked more in the hut to hut, or hostel to hostel European style. We generally went only a couple of days between small villages, alpine country stores, etc. We worried little about nutrition, as we were eating good country meals every couple of days, and subsisted on soup and crackers and the occasional piece of cheese or fruit in between. We had no idea about hydration and rarely carried more than a single bottle of water, which we replenished at mountain streams, etc. Who had ever heard or worried about mountain stream water being polluted? Our major source of liquid was soda in cans, and inevitably a bottle of wine or two. When warm and sweaty we would barely pee all day. Again, who even knew that was something to worry about? But I am fairly convinced that the damp moist underwear conditions would heighten the chance of infection, and with the lowered urine output, and less pressure, yeasts, bacteria, etc would invariably have the opportunity to travel further up the urethra and cause infection.

Believe me, there is little worse than a severe urine infection when you are a day’s walk from anywhere. I remember on particular trip in Austria where I was in so much agony I couldn’t get out of the cold (very cold) mountain stream in which I had sought relief. My last ditch attempt to relieve the burning, after all topical anti-itch, antiseptic cream had failed, was, believe it or not, was to crush up an aspirin tablet and hold the powder up to the offending area on a cold damp piece of tissue! It sounds really stupid now, but we were young and had no idea how pain killers worked. I think the aspirin I actually swallowed (probably washed down with wine) was more likely the ultimate relief of my condition. I eventually managed to hobble up to the next hut, were there was a summer caretaker who ultimately got us down off the mountain to a train so we could return home. The return to England was agony. The first thing I did back home was see my family doctor. At that time a new OTC product had just come out that relieved the burning symptoms of urine infections. I bought some while I waited for my prescription.

I suffered years of the cycle of yeast and bladder infections all throughout my teen years. Each time I was treated to one, the other was more likely to occur due to the treatment of the first. They were definitely much more prevalent in the summer hiking months, almost always starting with a urine infection after a big trek. Finally in my early 20’s I ended up having surgical bladder treatment followed by a several months treatment of very low dose antibiotic.

Fortunately I have never suffered to that extreme again, and rarely get a full blown bladder infection any more. I credit that to much better hydration awareness, dispensing with underwear, and being aware of the very early symptoms. At the slightest sign of discomfort and/or weak flow, I step up my hydration. I always carry Azo-standard, and take it if I don’t get immediate relief from increasing my water intake. I believe I have never gone on another trip without it (yes, the painful memory is THAT vivid).

[Gray Blazer]

Guess they don't call him Sgt. Rock for nothing.

Good one!!!Sgt. Stone!:D Yes, they hurt like he!!.

[Gray Blazer]

Good reason to bring some morphine patches with you.

[Shutterbug]

Seems to me that sweating and not drinking alot can cause a bladder or kidney infection on the trail.
Does this happen alot to hikers?

I have passed several kindney stones. One wouldn't pass, so I had surgery. The doctor said that the stones were caused by my not drinking enough water. According to him, dehydration will cause a stone to start forming. It might not start moving for months or even years.

Since he warned me, I have been drinking a lot more water when I hike. That has resulted in a different problem -- electrolyte imbalance. Drinking large quantities of water without replacing the electrolytes causes me to become very weak. Until I discovered what was happening I had several really difficult hikes. I have started adding a package of Propel to my water bottle twice each day. That solved the problem.

[SGT Rock]

LWolf had some of that life water or something like that. He said it tases good - I wonder if that would help.

[JAK]

[quote=JAK;399282]I just read the other day that oxalic acid, a poison found in many foods in varying concentrations, can lead to kidney stones when it combines with calcium.
=====================================

You are correct. A significant percentage of kidney stones are of CALCIUM OXOLATE MONOHYDRATE or DIHYDRATE composition.

The oxolate binds with the calcium and forms crystals that are NON water soluble. In other words ...all the hydration (with water) in the world won't dissolve the stones and allow you to eliminate them through normal urination.

The trick (if you are a calcium oxolate stone former) is to modify your diet such as to incorporate substances to which the oxolate has affinity that ARE water soluble. Such a substance is CITRATE, which is contained in a lot of citrus fruits/juices. Drinking lemonade is a good !!

'SloggerBut I've also read that too much vitamin C supplements can cause the body to metabolize the vitamin C and form kidney stones. So it is a matter of natural vs artificial source, or quantity? Quantity I'm guessing, a matter of taking things in proper proportion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_acid
"Oxalic acid is also biosynthesized via the metabolism of ethylene glycol ("antifreeze"), glyoxylic acid, and ascorbic acid (vitamin C). The latter pathway presents a potential health risk for long term "megadosers" of vitamin C supplements."

[JAK]

Natural unprocessed foods are generally more likely to have stuff in proportions that our bodies can safely and naturally handle, as long as we don't go too ballistic on any one thing. I'm not saying all foods should be in a natural and unprocessed form, but a more natural unprocessed balanced diet might be a good guideline for a less natural more processed but still reasonably balanced diet.

[CaptChaos]

Hello Everyone:

20 years ago I passed my first stone on the right side and then 6 months later I passed a second stone on the left. In both cases I had the pleasure of finding out what true pain feels like.

At the time they wanted to put me on medication and I refused as I felt that I was to young. I cheated fate and 7 years later I passed a stone that refused to play fair and I had to be put under while they traced it and pulled it out. Needless to say I ended up taking a very old water pill and the Dr. told me would help with the salt and calicum issue and keep them from binding but I had to drink a lot of water. When the forth stone hit I had to have the procedure where they use the sonic ways in the tub of water to break up the stone and the doctor missed a piece so I ended up three days later passing a piece of the stone again.

My last stone turned out to be a a result of the water pill that I had been taking for years. The water pill had a side effect in males of driving up your uric acid level. This causes gout but the stone when it came back from the lab was a uric acid stone.

I had to battle with my doctor for about 18 months to give up the water pill and I have been stone free for about 6 years now. But now I am prone to gout in my big toes and the pain is about the same.

When I was born my mother six months later passed a stone. She said that the stone hurt more than my birth. So I guess in my case I have had about 6 kids and I can relate to any woman in the area of childbirth.

And they say that men can't relate to the pain a woman faces during child birth.

Capt Chaos

[SGT Rock]

When I was born my mother six months later passed a stone. She said that the stone hurt more than my birth. So I guess in my case I have had about 6 kids and I can relate to any woman in the area of childbirth.

And they say that men can't relate to the pain a woman faces during child birth.

Capt Chaos
My nurse during my first stone said she had done both and would rather give birth. I feel your pain. Litterly - but only 3 stones for me.

[Tennessee Viking]

Seems to me that sweating and not drinking alot can cause a bladder or kidney infection on the trail.
Does this happen alot to hikers?
Sweating and not drinking can aggravate a pre-existing condition.

Mainly if you drink heavy water; with traces of sulfur, calcium, or other mineral deposits, or bacterial infection from food/dirty water can cause bladder or kidney infection.

Always ask for drugs when having a kidney infection. I had one in college (7-8 on the pain scale), and after a pill or two for the pain, the wallpaper was moving.

[damush]

if the original poster is worrying about bladder and/or kidney infections i suggest she not wear cotton panties.

[rcli4]

I know kidney stones. I have had 6 in the last 14 months. I have had lithotripsy (shock waves) basket extraction (They go in through available pathways :>)), and finally surgery last week. Different stones produce different levels of pain. I have had uncomfortable back pain to literally passing out from the pain. If hydration was the answer I wouldn't have had the second stone let alone the sixth. I drink massive amounts of water. I have taken every old wives tale remedy known to man. If you hurt bad enough you will try anything.

Clyde

[BumpJumper]

Thanks for the replies.
I am more concerned about getting a bladder infection on the trail than a kidney stone though.
I have never had that kind of problem but I do get a bladder irritation if I dont drink much and sweat alot.
I take a azo standard and it is usually fine in a few hours. I guess I am one of those lucky people that will have to carry azo with me on the trail.

[BumpJumper]

Damush....

What if I dont wear any at ALL????:banana :banana :D :D

[Footslogger]

[quote=BumpJumper;399746]Thanks for the replies.
I am more concerned about getting a bladder infection on the trail than a kidney stone though.
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Just drink ...and drink ...and then drink more. Oh, did I say DRINK ??

Keep it clear and copius and odds are you won't have any problems with infections or stones. Exercise reasonable hygeine, given the conditions.

'Slogger