Joyce Kilmer... any ideas

[humunuku]

My weekend just freed up, so I am gonna go explore Joyce Kilmer area. Anyone have a suggestions on some good 2 night loops (I'm happy with 12 miles/day in wilderness), or just some trails that I should definitely go on? I've never been there, so it'll be all new to me. Thanks for any help.

[Tennessee Viking]

I know only of the BMT. Be sure to drive the Dragon and Cherohala Parkway. There should be a National Geographic of most of the popular trails in JK.

[Ramble~On]

Do you have a map and if so which one?

This is a great area. While the Joyce Kilmer Memorial Forest makes up a fraction of the area it is a highlight and a good place to start/finish a loop.
The Memorial Trail shouldn't be missed and has some impressive old growth forest. The trail is 2 miles and would make for a good leg stretcher after the drive getting there.
Slickrock Creek and Citico Creek combined are huge and offer some excellent hiking and many options. It's been really dry and I can't swear to there being water higher on the ridges.
Probably the most hiked trail in the area is Slickrock Creek Trail from Calderwood Lake. There's parking near the bridge. The first 7 or so miles of Slickrock Creek Trail are heavily used and dotted with often littered campsites. There are two waterfalls along this stretch that draw hordes of people..Lower Falls and Wildcat Falls...both are beautiful and offer some great swimming...it's a very scenic hike...but a wet one...even in low water..there are many creek crossings.
If this is your first time in the area Slickrock Creek Trail from Calderwood Lake would be a good start. The loop options are many but all trails branching off of Slickrock Creek Trail gain elevation. The upper portion of Slickrock Creek Trail to Naked Ground is a tough hike and it has been dry lately so water up higher may be hard to come by.
If you have time to pick up a copy....
"Hiking Trails of the Joyce Kilmer-Slickrock & Citico Creek Wildernesses" by Tim Homan is excellent

....I'd hike Slickrock Creek Trail from Calderwood Lake to Wildcat Falls, continue on Slickrock to Nichols Cove and down Ike Branch back to Slickrock and you car at the lake...nice loop. This loop allows you the option of making it wider if you're up to it to include Big Fat Trail, Hangover Lead Trail to Naked Ground and down Slickrock Creek trail.
Slickrock Creek Trail is 13 miles Calderwood to Naked Ground.
If you do spend some time hiking here this weekend...I'm willing to bet you'll come back.....more than once.:D

[Tipi Walter]

Yeah, I agree with SpiritWind on backpacking the Slickrock Creek trail up from the lake all the way to Naked Ground(and I've never seen the water spring at Naked dry), and then loop left to the Hangover(a must-see)and go down Hangover Lead South to Big Fat Gap and back to Slickrock Creek.

This loop would be long and hard but you'd see the best sections. If you're coming in from the Memorial Loops I'd go up the Naked Ground trail along Little Santeetlah creek and at Naked turn left and go up to Bob Bald for the night. There probably won't be water on the bald so you could load up at Naked. The next day you could head back down to Naked and over to the Hangover for a look-see and then descend down the Haoe Lead trail to Jenkins Meadow and back out to the Memorial Loops.

SpiritWind's suggestion of going up Slickrock to Wildcat and further to Nichols/Big Fat and up Nichols Cove to Yellowhammer and Ike Branch(now the BMT)and back down to Slickrock is also a good one and easier than my idea. What with the current heat and drought I'd wanna be hiking along Slickrock Creek for swimming purposes and would probably go as high on the Slickrock Creek trail as I could the first day and go back out on the same trail the second day.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

There are many, many good loops to be made from the parking lot at Big Fat Gap.

[Footslogger]

Park at the Kilmer Pavillion or at the Big Fat parking lot and do the 20+ mile loop that takes you over Hangover and down around the west bank of the creek/river.

One of my favorites when I lived back there.

'Slogger

[humunuku]

I just got the Joyce kilmer Book today and I have the TI map (the USFS or USDA) map is un findable in knoxville...

Thanks for the input, I'll read up on the suggested trails tonight and explore them tomorrow and the next day and the next day

[Ramble~On]

The TI map is good but not as detailed as the paper USFS map...which you can pick up at the Ranger's Station for a couple bucks.

The book is great and with it your questions are answered--he's thorough!

As others have mentioned...there's a lot of great possibilities and the book will reinforce this. At the height of summer and for as dry as it's been I still think Slickrock Creek Trail is a good introduction to the area.
As Tipi mentioned...Bob Bald is a highlight that should be included and getting there from Naked Ground is a beautiful hike. Other than the spring at Naked Ground water will be scarce along the higher trails.

Whatever you end up doing......try and include the short Memorial Loop Trail.

[humunuku]

Day 1
I had a great weekend at Joyce Kilmer! We started at Tapoco TH kinda late saturday morning. It was a cool morning, sun just starting to burn off the clouds-perfect weather. We headed out on the Slickrock creek trail then quickly jumped on Ike Branch and back to slickrock creek trail. Had a great time going up Slickrock with all the crossings. Stopped at Wildcat falls for a minute-too many people with their crap thrown all over the place, I'll definitely have to come back here on a weekday and avoid the crowds at the falls. So we kept following S.C. trail until we missed a creek crossing a bit south of the intersection with Big fat Trail, a well worn path kept going straight, so thats what we did for half a mile or so, then we back tracked to the trail junction and examined every turn 'til we found the correct crossing. We then came to Ballbuster-we didn't know if Ballbuster was the same as slickrock creek trail, but it went the right direction (up) so we took it. It was a good trail, no too bad, just steep in short sections, over all not a big deal. We made it to Maked ground a tiny before dark, found the slightly flowing spring, filled up some, put on the headlamps and started for Bobs Bald. Got to the Bob well into the dark and set up camp and enjoyed a cloud free sky with every possible star glowing-amazing.
Day 2
Woke up to see the sun burning up the clouds and only one other couple up on the Bald...we past atleast 6 other groups camping at Naked ground or on the trail up to BOB, but for some reason they didn't want to sleep up there...their loss, my gain. By the time breakfast wast over, we had the bald to ourselves and a cloudless sky...not too bad.
So we packed up, went down to Naked ground then down Naked ground trail almost to the bottom. Had lunch by the creek and played in the water for a bit, the took Jenkins Meadow trail back up to the top. I'm not sure what wore me out more, going down Naked ground or up JenkinsMeadow... so whe hooked up with Haoe, then over to the Hangover, totally amazing, the mountains were beautiful. after eating a bit, we headed down hangover lead and found a forested campsite half way down. Didn't have the view like the sites up top, but still a nice forested campsite.

Day 3

Woke up and continued the decent to Big Fat. Took Windy Gap trail to Nichols cove and back over to Slickrock creek trail. Went down to Lower Falls and couldn't pass up the opertunity to go swimming in such a perfect swimmin hole...plus we had it all to ouselves...stay there and swam for atleast an hour. Finally forced ourselves out of the water and headed back to the car via S.C. trail.

Joyce Kilmer is fantastic! I will be back and plan to hit the Memorial trail next time too. Thanks for suggesting some trails.

[humunuku]

The TI map is good but not as detailed as the paper USFS map...which you can pick up at the Ranger's Station for a couple bucks.

Trail.

Where is the ranger station? is it off 129?

[Tipi Walter]

It sounds like you hiked your butts off and got to see the best of the Slickrock Wilderness: Slickrock Creek, the Ballbuster, Naked Ground and the Bob, Little Santeetlah and some big trees, Jenkins and the Haoe, the Hangover, Lower Falls and out. Lucky dogs. Was there water at the spring on the Bob? I've camped many times on the trail leaving the Hangover going down to Big Fat. There's a long flat grassy gap I call Elysium Fields above Big Fat Gap that is great.

Thanks for the trip report.

[humunuku]

Was there water at the spring on the Bob? I've camped many times on the trail leaving the Hangover going down to Big Fat.

Thanks for the trip report.

I didn't check the spring on the bald since the other couple staying up there said it was dry

[Footslogger]

I didn't check the spring on the bald since the other couple staying up there said it was dry

===================================

You mentioned taking the Ike Branch trail ...did you get up along the Little Tennessee River at the north end of the wilderness area. You can actually get a car in fairly close to the trail head up there, if I remember correctly. It's a nice alternative to parking at the more southern access points.

'Slogger

[rockrat]

Start at Joyce Kilmer and hike up to Hangover Lead, then hike over to Stratton Bald via the Naked ground trail. Its one of my favorite hikes, but the Naked Ground trail can get pretty steep on the way up to Hangover lead.

[humunuku]

===================================

You mentioned taking the Ike Branch trail ...did you get up along the Little Tennessee River at the north end of the wilderness area. You can actually get a car in fairly close to the trail head up there, if I remember correctly. It's a nice alternative to parking at the more southern access points.

'Slogger

Yeah, we parked along the river right across from Cheoah dam...at the start of slickrock creek trail, half a mile from ike branch

[Ramble~On]

Yeah, we parked along the river right across from Cheoah dam...at the start of slickrock creek trail, half a mile from ike branch

Locals call the bridge you parked next to "The Fugitive Bridge" as the dam was the one filmed in the movie "The Fugitive" and there is a scene showing Harrison Ford jumping from the dam (yeah right...instant death...only in Hollywood)
The water on the right is Calderwood Lake.
-It sounds like you had a great hike and from your route it sounds like you burned some calories:D . Aside from the water source at Naked Ground were you able to find any water up higher ?
Your route covered pretty much all of the "busy" spots.
Solitude can be found in Citico Creek and during the week there are far less people...sometimes no people in Slickrock Creek area. Did you take the book along and if so did it help you ?

[Tipi Walter]

Yeah, in February '07 I spent 15 days backpacking the Citico/Slickrock and didn't see a SINGLE HUMAN.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

The area is one of my favorite places - as Tipi notes, solitude can still be had in Slickrock during the week year round and pretty much anytime in the winter months. I still do the majority of my hiking there as the GSMNP and the AT are too crowded for my taste.

[Ramble~On]

Yeah, in February '07 I spent 15 days backpacking the Citico/Slickrock and didn't see a SINGLE HUMAN.

Tipi did you get resupplied, cache or what ?
I'm planning on spending some quality time in there this winter...and I am wishing for snow....lots of snow.

[Ramble~On]

The area is one of my favorite places - as Tipi notes, solitude can still be had in Slickrock during the week year round and pretty much anytime in the winter months. I still do the majority of my hiking there as the GSMNP and the AT are too crowded for my taste.

:-? Maybe we all ought to stop talking about this area.

Dinos...have you been to the Cohutta Wilderness ?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

:-? Maybe we all ought to stop talking about this area.

Dinos...have you been to the Cohutta Wilderness ?Yes, that's where my brother goes most of the time.

What about Big South Fork? Some great hiking up there (even before it was officially a park :D)

[Tipi Walter]

Tipi did you get resupplied, cache or what ?
I'm planning on spending some quality time in there this winter...and I am wishing for snow....lots of snow.

I was dropped off at Beech Gap for a pickup 15 days later at Bald River falls which I got to later by taking the BMT south over the Whigg and Sugar Mt and entered the Bald River wilderness from the back. No cache but I did start out with an 80 pound pack and about 32 ounces of white gas. My pack was heavy cuz I ended up taking several books, a heavy tent, extra food, a little radio, candles and some winter gear.

[Ramble~On]

I was dropped off at Beech Gap for a pickup 15 days later at Bald River falls which I got to later by taking the BMT south over the Whigg and Sugar Mt and entered the Bald River wilderness from the back. No cache but I did start out with an 80 pound pack and about 32 ounces of white gas. My pack was heavy cuz I ended up taking several books, a heavy tent, extra food, a little radio, candles and some winter gear.

:D 80 pound pack....I used to do that....err uh, I mean....I used to be able to do that!

Dinos... Which Big South Fork ?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I was dropped off at Beech Gap for a pickup 15 days later at Bald River falls w......Wow, that is quite a hike - rough country. We have done some of our training hikes in that area. Here is a pic of me on upper Bald River Falls. (http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=86693)
Dinos... Which Big South Fork ?The one on the Cumberland Plateau near the TN / KY border (http://www.nps.gov/biso/).

[Hikerhead]

I was there this past weekend. Hatman and Happy Feet were nice enough to invite me along with them so that I could finish up the area that I missed last year when I made the wrong turn at Slick Rock/Stiff Knee. We started at about 10am or so on Sat, had to park on the other side of the lake and cross the bridge. Hiked Slick Rock all the way to the end where the start of the Ball Buster Trail begins. Along the way we took an awesome swim somewhere before the Ike Branch trail. A little ways further Happy Feet slipped while crossing one of the many creek crossing and gashed her shin pretty good. We camped 100 yards past Ball Buster in a nice but hardly used campsite.

The next morning Hatman and I hiked up Ball Buster and tagged Naked Ground and came back down. Happy Feet stayed in camp nursing her shin. Hatman says that I can now get the Ball Buster patch which has some pretty neat graphics :) When we got back down we packed up and went back down Slick Rock and camped at THE intersection with Stiff Knee. They now have a 6 ft tall sign post beside the small one. The next morning we hiked out on the Ike Branch Trail then went and slack packed the BMT from Deals Gap to Checoah Dam.

Slick Rock trail earned it's name as I feel 3 times and Happy Feet feel once. The Ball Buster earned it's name. I would have thought that Naked Ground was bare and open but it was a wooded gap with a small openning to see across Joyce Kilmer.

We had three young guys come into came lost sat evening. They came down the Ball Buster thinking they were heading into Joyce Kilmer. They didn't have a map.

The yellow jackets were everywhere, Hatman and myself both got tagged once. Them suckers hurt!

[humunuku]

We had three young guys come into came lost sat evening. They came down the Ball Buster thinking they were heading into Joyce Kilmer. They didn't have a map.

The yellow jackets were everywhere, Hatman and myself both got tagged once. Them suckers hurt!

Hey, I ran into those three youngins on my way up ballbuster...i told them to keep decending and they eventually get to a signed trail junction. We also met the yellow jackets, not to friendly they were

[humunuku]

Dinos... Which Big South Fork ?

go look in my gallery....see that huge arch, they're all over big south fork....many rock ledges/cave type things to camp under too. I was out there last winter in the snow, sleeping under a rock overhang with a fire going...one of my favorite experiences. You really should check it out. Its in northern TN, by Oneida. The Sheltowee trace and John Muir trail go thru it.

[humunuku]

Locals call the bridge you parked next to "The Fugitive Bridge" as the dam was the one filmed in the movie "The Fugitive" and there is a scene showing Harrison Ford jumping from the dam (yeah right...instant death...only in Hollywood)
The water on the right is Calderwood Lake.
-It sounds like you had a great hike and from your route it sounds like you burned some calories:D . Aside from the water source at Naked Ground were you able to find any water up higher ?
Your route covered pretty much all of the "busy" spots.
Solitude can be found in Citico Creek and during the week there are far less people...sometimes no people in Slickrock Creek area. Did you take the book along and if so did it help you ?

Didn't look for water any higher since i filled up at naked ground. The book helped a lot...glad i have a super cool library that has all these trail books (got the cohutta one there too)

[Ramble~On]

go look in my gallery....see that huge arch, they're all over big south fork....many rock ledges/cave type things to camp under too. I was out there last winter in the snow, sleeping under a rock overhang with a fire going...one of my favorite experiences. You really should check it out. Its in northern TN, by Oneida. The Sheltowee trace and John Muir trail go thru it.

I am putting this on my calender....

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

The 'rock houses' of the southwest side of Big South Fork (http://www.nps.gov/biso/) (near Jamestown, TN) are spectacular. We have hiked out to many. There is a huge 'rock house' called Indian House with a low volume waterfall running over the rim along Hidden Passage Trail (http://www.state.tn.us/environment/tn_consv/greathikes/pdf/pickett.pdf). The trailhead is at Pickett State Park (http://www.state.tn.us/environment/parks/Pickett/index.shtml) . Local legend says many Cherokees hide out in this area and lived there during the 'Trail of Tears'.

There are many old Indian trails that have been kept in usable shape by hunters in the area. If you are good with maps and a compass, a true wilderness experience awaits you from various unmarked trails that begin off the north side of TN Highway 297 (connects US 27 at Oneida, TN, to TN Highway 154 north of Jamestown, TN) and go into BSF. Be sure to get land owners' permission to park and enter the land if houses are nearby.

[Tipi Walter]

[quote=Hikerhead;401551]I was there this past weekend. Hatman and Happy Feet were nice enough to invite me along with them so that I could finish up the area that I missed last year when I made the wrong turn at Slick Rock/Stiff Knee. We started at about 10am or so on Sat, had to park on the other side of the lake and cross the bridge. Hiked Slick Rock all the way to the end where the start of the Ball Buster Trail begins. Along the way we took an awesome swim somewhere before the Ike Branch trail. A little ways further Happy Feet slipped while crossing one of the many creek crossing and gashed her shin pretty good. We camped 100 yards past Ball Buster in a nice but hardly used campsite.

The next morning Hatman and I hiked up Ball Buster and tagged Naked Ground and came back down. Happy Feet stayed in camp nursing her shin. Hatman says that I can now get the Ball Buster patch which has some pretty neat graphics :) When we got back down we packed up and went back down Slick Rock and camped at THE intersection with Stiff Knee. They now have a 6 ft tall sign post beside the small one. The next morning we hiked out on the Ike Branch Trail then went and slack packed the BMT from Deals Gap to Checoah Dam.

Slick Rock trail earned it's name as I feel 3 times and Happy Feet feel once. The Ball Buster earned it's name. I would have thought that Naked Ground was bare and open but it was a wooded gap with a small openning to see across Joyce Kilmer.

We had three young guys come into came lost sat evening. They came down the Ball Buster thinking they were heading into Joyce Kilmer. They didn't have a map.

The yellow jackets were everywhere, Hatman and myself both got tagged once. Them suckers hurt![/quote

Where can I get the Ballbuster Patch??:) Through the years I've backpacked up the Ballbuster 16 times to Naked Ground and on my last foray got hit 3 separate times by the hostile yellow jackets and it happened on the steepest, meanest section of the trail. But I love the ballbuster trail, obviously, and it's not as rough as many people think. On my last attempt there was a massive hemlock blowdown right across the trail, it was one of those BIG trees which required some hard climbing, twisting and scooting to cross.

[Pennsylvania Rose]

go look in my gallery....see that huge arch, they're all over big south fork....many rock ledges/cave type things to camp under too. I was out there last winter in the snow, sleeping under a rock overhang with a fire going...one of my favorite experiences. You really should check it out. Its in northern TN, by Oneida. The Sheltowee trace and John Muir trail go thru it.


BSF is a great place - we spend time hiking and camping there every summer & the kids love to swim at Leatherwood Ford. Hiking the Big South Fork by Brenda Coleman and JoAnna Smith is a great guide to the area.

OTOH, I've only been to Joyce Kilmer once, on a plant ecology field trip, so my next trip south may have to bypass the Smokies. What's the easiest way to get there from Maryville (usually go through to get to GSMNP), and how long does it take?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I've only been to Joyce Kilmer once, on a plant ecology field trip, so my next trip south may have to bypass the Smokies. What's the easiest way to get there from Maryville (usually go through to get to GSMNP), and how long does it take?The easiest way is to go out Highway 411 to Highway 129. This goes thru a frightening 11 mile stretch known as Tail of the Dragon (http://www.tailofthedragon.com/dragon.html), but it the most direct route. Just go slow and let the 'crotch-rockets' pass you frequently. Highway 28 NC will split off but stay on Highway 129 and follow the signs to the Joyce Kilmer forest. You will pass a large dam along the way and there is parking for hikers across from this dam. A bit further down 129, road turns right and immediate crosses a large, rock creek. Following this road to the end (about 8 miles of gravel road) will get you to the Big Fat Gap parking area.

[Pennsylvania Rose]

Thanks! About how long does it take from Maryville?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

It's only about 40 - 45 miles, but because of the curvy roads it normlly takes me about 1.5 to 2 hours - depends on the number of 'crotch rockets' and weather conditions. US 129 is pretty curvy even off the 'Dragon'

[Ewker]

Hiking the Big South Fork by Brenda Coleman and JoAnna Smith is a great guide to the area.



I have that book..one of the better ones out there esp for info on the JMT in BSF

[Hikerhead]

BSF is a great place - we spend time hiking and camping there every summer & the kids love to swim at Leatherwood Ford. Hiking the Big South Fork by Brenda Coleman and JoAnna Smith is a great guide to the area.

OTOH, I've only been to Joyce Kilmer once, on a plant ecology field trip, so my next trip south may have to bypass the Smokies. What's the easiest way to get there from Maryville (usually go through to get to GSMNP), and how long does it take?

It took my 7 hrs to get there from Roanoke, Va by I-81 south/I-77 south/I-40 west and then (74 ?) to Bryson City and on then on to Robbinsville NC and then the trail head about 16 miles further up the road. Sorry can't remember the small road numbers.

[envirodiver]

[quote=SpiritWind;401444]:-? Maybe we all ought to stop talking about this area.

LOL...I think you are right spiritwind.

One of my favorite places too. I usually go into Citigo because of the numbers of people in Joyce Kilmer. Have to be careful at certain times because I think they allow bear and other hunting in there.

Ballbuster...a little steep in places?...jeez...yeah and it gets a little hot in Death Valley.

[Tha Wookie]

I was just in JK this weekend.

I love it. But I wouldn't advise anyone else to go there.

;)

[Ramble~On]

Water was scarce but.......

In five days I saw 5 people... two were carrying guns and wearing orange, 1 was sleeping soundly under a tarp along the stream and the other two were a couple from Chapel Hill. All of these folks were ( you guessed it ) along Slickrock Creek. Other than these few people I had the place to myself:) .

Hangover Lead between Yellowhammer and Naked Ground is dry.
The spring at Naked Ground is reduced to a mud puddle seep but is still usable. The spring on Bob Bald was a trickle. Fodderstack is usually dry, the spring on Crowder Branch was a trickle.
This was the lowest I'd ever seen the water. Slickrock Creek is a shadow of it's normal self.........but the good news there is that the pools at the falls stay full and with so little water flowing into them they are the warmest I've ever seen them. Near mid October and I was swimming like it was July.
There's a bumper crop of acorns this year and the higher trails are covered with them. Hiking over tons of acorns can be like hiking on marbles:rolleyes: and uh...I ended up in the air looking up at my boots a couple times.
I had a hunting dog join me for a day and a half. The leaves are still mostly green but there was enough color to make me happy. The view from Hangover was remarkable as always except for this time the dead Hemlock are very noticeable. The Slickrock Creek watershed has some massive, ancient Hemlock trees and it is really sad to see them going.
--- The section of Hangover Lead Trail between Yellowhammer Gap and Big Fat Gap is very overgrown and has many blowdowns. I had only hiked this section once before and remember it being overgrown and steep, that was 2 or 3 years ago.....it is more overgrown now and is steeper than I remembered. I mention this only as a warning to anyone planning to hike it.
:D If anyone should happen to hike this section of trail.....I'd like to hear your thoughts about it.

Tha Wookie were you by any chance taking a nap under a tarp, along Slickrock Creek Trail in between Nichols Cove Trail and Wildcat Falls Sunday afternoonish ?

Had Fontana Dam not been built the AT would still travel very near most of this and I'm betting over time would have been routed into and perhaps follow Slickrock Creek.

[Tipi Walter]

Water was scarce but.......

In five days I saw 5 people... two were carrying guns and wearing orange, 1 was sleeping soundly under a tarp along the stream and the other two were a couple from Chapel Hill. All of these folks were ( you guessed it ) along Slickrock Creek. Other than these few people I had the place to myself:) .

Hangover Lead between Yellowhammer and Naked Ground is dry.
The spring at Naked Ground is reduced to a mud puddle seep but is still usable. The spring on Bob Bald was a trickle. Fodderstack is usually dry, the spring on Crowder Branch was a trickle.
This was the lowest I'd ever seen the water. Slickrock Creek is a shadow of it's normal self.........but the good news there is that the pools at the falls stay full and with so little water flowing into them they are the warmest I've ever seen them. Near mid October and I was swimming like it was July.
There's a bumper crop of acorns this year and the higher trails are covered with them. Hiking over tons of acorns can be like hiking on marbles:rolleyes: and uh...I ended up in the air looking up at my boots a couple times.
I had a hunting dog join me for a day and a half. The leaves are still mostly green but there was enough color to make me happy. The view from Hangover was remarkable as always except for this time the dead Hemlock are very noticeable. The Slickrock Creek watershed has some massive, ancient Hemlock trees and it is really sad to see them going.
--- The section of Hangover Lead Trail between Yellowhammer Gap and Big Fat Gap is very overgrown and has many blowdowns. I had only hiked this section once before and remember it being overgrown and steep, that was 2 or 3 years ago.....it is more overgrown now and is steeper than I remembered. I mention this only as a warning to anyone planning to hike it.
:D If anyone should happen to hike this section of trail.....I'd like to hear your thoughts about it.

Tha Wookie were you by any chance taking a nap under a tarp, along Slickrock Creek Trail in between Nichols Cove Trail and Wildcat Falls Sunday afternoonish ?

Had Fontana Dam not been built the AT would still travel very near most of this and I'm betting over time would have been routed into and perhaps follow Slickrock Creek.

Thanks for the great trip report. I'll be heading out in November for another long trip into the Citico/Slickrock and your report is making me jealous. What was the exact route you followed, down the Jeffrey Hell to the South Fork? Did you get to spend a night along the South Fork or the North Fork?

Your mention of the ball-bearing acorns brought back a memory of falling going down the Stratton Ridge/Horse Cove trail from the Bob Wall down to the Kilmer Loops. I fell like a sack of feed. They were everywhere. I was going down the Stiffknee recently(the worse part)and those acorns were about to throw me off the trail. Had to be real careful.

The water situation on the Hangover Lead South trail up to Saddle Tree Gap was never abundant, although the high springs coming out of the side of the mountain always seemed to be flowing. No more, I guess.

I don't believe the Hangover Lead trail gets anywhere near Yellowhammer Gap OH WAIT A MINUTE!! You're talking about the Hangover Lead North trail! Yes, this trail starts at Yellowhammer Gap and goes up and over to Big Fat. I've walked this trail twice, once up and once down, and it is a mean, nasty, hot and unforgiving thing. I guess you walked the entire Hangover Lead trail, both north and south, and is supposed to be the largest total elevation gain of all the trails in the Citico/Slickrock. I hardly ever use the Hangover North trail as it is a near pointless up and down, but I've done the Hangover South trail many times. It too is a hot, nasty thing but midway thru there is a fine little flat gap perfect for a group of tents(though no water).

Thanks again for the report and tell us more!

[Ramble~On]

This was my second hike of Hangover North. The last time 3 of us went from Yellowhammer up to Big Fat and I knew I never wanted to do that again so this time I figured I'd hike from Big Fat down to Yellowhammer as I figured by now some trail work had been done to it. Wrong.
This is a very nasty stretch of trail in either direction...it's littered with blowdowns, has almost no switchbacks, runs straight up the ridge at an insane grade, and is so overgrown that the briars draw blood.
This trail is obviously seldom used and appears to be forgotten and on its way to being reclaimed by the forest.
I've hiked the other section of Hangover many times in each direction and love that trail although it's in need of some serious trail work too, has blowdowns and the scramble through roots about a mile up is ridiculous.
I didn't start at Jeffrey Hell, I started at the fugitive bridge on Calderwood.
I took Ike Branch and Slickrock Creek to Wildcat Falls, spent the rest of the day at the falls. I then took Big Fat to Hangover and spent many hours at the hangover watching hawks and wishing I had brought a telephoto lens for the camera. From there I moved on up to Naked Ground and hoped for better water than what was there. Tuesday I went up to the bald and down to Fodderstack, at Cherry Log Gap I went down North Fork for water and had to come back up:rolleyes: It looks like Ken Jones has been busy. As always the boar have been busy and this area seems to get the brunt of their abuse. I hiked Fodderstack around to Stiffknee, Stiffknee back down to SRC and Nichols Cove back to Wildcat Falls for more swimming:D .
Thursday I hiked out on Windy Gap and took Hangover North, Ike and ended back at the truck.
---Beautiful Hike as always, excellent weather but water isn't as plentiful as it usually is. My legs are sore and the calf muscles are tight.
I am really looking forward to some winter hiking this year and hope for snow.

[Tipi Walter]

The last time I did the Hangover North it was late in the day and raining, with me were two stray hunting dogs and along with my dog we all found a suitable tentsite near the top right by the trail. It was a good place to stay for the night. Of all the trails in the Citico/Slickrock, the Hangover North is the worst MENTALLY because it, like you said, runs straight up the ridge at an insane grade with no switchbacks and no relief. In other words, BORING!

I know well the rooty scramble you're talking about on the Hangover South. It's about a mile in and hard in both directions but most especially coming down in the snow. The trail here just disappears and is replaced with a washout and mudslide, a nasty time-consuming bother. The last time I did it was in the snow and I had to veer way off to the left and use trees for support, etc.

How far down the North Fork trail did you have to go to find water? Even when the water's up it's a long downhill to reach from Cherry Log, can't imagine going all the way and then back up. Did you see recent trail work on the North Fork? Ken Jones told me that a group of trail workers from Asheville would be working the North Fork(last March/April), so I'm wondering if they did as the rhodo on the top part of the North Fork is thick and bothersome.

By the way, when walking the Fodderstack north, if you stop at Glenn Gap and veer down the gap to the right there's a little creek fairly close. It's probably dry by now but would be worth checking out. Glad to hear Crowders still has water.

All in all I guess you did about 42-45 miles altogether, that explains why your legs are sore.:)

[generoll]

Great hikes, both of you. I did a loop several years ago starting and ending in the lot by the dam. I went in on Slickrock and spent the first night at the well worn campsite where the trail comes down from Yellowhammer (I think). I hiked on Nichols Cove the next day to Big Fat. I think the FS is letting the trail go back to nature. It didn't seem to have any signs of maintenance. The last day I hiked back up to the parking lot at Big Fat and then the North Lead back to the parking lot. I seem to recall that I almost had to swing from tree to tree down some of the descents. Almost as steep as the trail up to Hangover from the parking lot.

A great area and if we get some cold weather this winter I'm gonna go back to do some snow camping. Gotta get some use out of this teepee and stove I splurged on last year.

[Tipi Walter]

Great hikes, both of you. I did a loop several years ago starting and ending in the lot by the dam. I went in on Slickrock and spent the first night at the well worn campsite where the trail comes down from Yellowhammer (I think). I hiked on Nichols Cove the next day to Big Fat. I think the FS is letting the trail go back to nature. It didn't seem to have any signs of maintenance. The last day I hiked back up to the parking lot at Big Fat and then the North Lead back to the parking lot. I seem to recall that I almost had to swing from tree to tree down some of the descents. Almost as steep as the trail up to Hangover from the parking lot.

A great area and if we get some cold weather this winter I'm gonna go back to do some snow camping. Gotta get some use out of this teepee and stove I splurged on last year.

Is it the Kifaru? I drooled for a while thinking about the possibilities of such a setup, there's nothing like feeding a woodstove while inside a Tipi:) And the Kifaru is a backpacking tipi, too.

I always see snow on the high ground around the Bob or the Hangover. What I do is listen to the weather report and when a mean storm system and cold front is headed into Knoxville/Chattanooga, I know it's time to hit the high trails where whatever they see in the valley will be 25 times worse.

[generoll]

Yup, Kifaru. All I can do is plead temporary insanity. I was afraid to tell my wife what I paid for it. Once I did she spent a few days on EBay hunting for jewelry.

[Ramble~On]

I seem to recall that I almost had to swing from tree to tree down some of the descents. Almost as steep as the trail up to Hangover from the parking lot.

That's the one ! Funny you mention that cause I had to swing from tree to tree down some of the steeper parts and all the acorns on the trail didn't help matters.
I know that the Cheoah Ranger District Office always has signs up for volunteer trail work and for adopting trails. Any work done on either section of Hangover would be a great improvement. I would get a great deal of satisfaction doing some trail work on Hangover...especially installing a ladder or steps on the washout/slide section 1 mile or so up from Big Fat parking area on the Hangover N. section.
I maintain two sections of the BMT on the TN. side of Slickrock and there's enough there to keep me busy for a long time but in the coming months I'd like to spend some time on Hangover Lead.

[Ewker]

thank for posting these reports. I haven't made it to this area yet but it sure is on my to do list.

[OhioNative]

When hiking in the Joyce Kilmer area in October or November, what temp rating sleeping bag do you use, and what insulating layer?

[humunuku]

i was happy in a 20 degree bag, but you can get some very cold nights in november where a 20 degree bag may not be enough.

[Tipi Walter]

I just got back from an eleven day December backpacking trip into the Citico/Slickrock and brought my full winter load including a new WM -15 degree bag and assorted layering systems including a down jacket as my outermost layer. The high ground is around 5200 feet and gets some wind and cold, sometimes down to zero or below, usually with some form of precip, etc.

On the lower ground around Little Santeetlah and the North Fork and South Fork/Citico and Slickrock Creek the temps are not as bad but there's still that cold valley humid air.

My last trip started in the Green Cove community and the fish hatchery where I went up the BMT/Sycamore Creek trail to Whiggs Meadow and over to Beech Gap and into the Citico/Slickrock proper. It's a good route and danged solitary.

At Cold Spring Gap I swung up to the Bob and the Hangover and eventually shot down the South Fork Citico for some nights on the low ground. Ended the trip up on the Rocky Flats trail at a new campsite along little Abbey Branch. On my 10th day I ran into a group of cold loving backpackers from Georgia on their way up the South Fork to the Bob, Naked Ground and down the Nutbuster to Slickrock Creek. A fine group of young men.