View Full Version : WhiteBlaze Pages
As some of you may know, we have been working on a new guidebook for the Appalachian Trail. It has been in the works for almost two years. It is now a reality; the book is called WhiteBlaze Pages. This book has some new and unique features. Visit WhiteBlazePages.net (http://whiteblazepages.net/) to check it out.
The book will be ready prior to the upcoming thru hiking season. Pre-order it now! (http://whiteblazepages.net/)
We will always strive to make our book as accurate as possible. To that end, we will make updates right up to the day when the book is printed. WhiteBlaze volunteers will call every business in every trail town. If you would like to participate in this effort, please let us know (http://whiteblazepages.net/forum/sendmessage.php).
little bear
09-13-2007, 04:56
Thanks Troll you are allways striving to help AT hikers.....congrats on finishing your book......and thanks to you, Sgt Rock and Dixie and the Mods for all you guys do.
LB
While others have been bickering on the forums pages, AT Troll and AWOL put their energy into something positive.
Congratulations on your lasting contribution to the hiking community!
hopefulhiker
09-13-2007, 07:01
Just went to the site.. Great ideas! It looks great.. like the tear out page idea..profiles, data.. Way to Go!
Jan LiteShoe
09-13-2007, 07:33
Just went to the site.. Great ideas! It looks great.. like the tear out page idea..profiles, data.. Way to Go!
I think the watermarked profiles are a great idea - looks like lots of info on one single page.
Seeing the distance to the next TWO shelters is another useful bit of info.
Congratulations.
Competition is a good thing!! Thanks for making the book available to the AT hiker community.
Cannibal
09-13-2007, 08:39
Very cool!
No more relying on non-hikers to get the right pages to me when I need them. The profiles are a great idea; so much for ignorance being bliss.
Kerosene
09-13-2007, 09:15
Just placed my pre-order, even though I won't be thru-hiking, it will still be nice to have a comprehensive packet. Thanks guys.
Johnny Swank
09-13-2007, 09:18
Just checked it out - very well thought out, and the watermarked profiles are awesome.
Johnny Thunder
09-13-2007, 09:21
Looks good. Definitely what I'll carry. How large is the book and is it bound? Maybe I'm confused.
StarLyte
09-13-2007, 09:29
Outstanding!
...and congratulations!
I would like my copy autographed please. :sun
Footslogger
09-13-2007, 09:48
Exactly what AT hikers need. Compliments the already available planning materials.
Comprehensive, easy to follow, flexible layout for carrying on the trail.
A "living" document.
Thanks to Awol an Troll for the time and effort required to pull this together.
'Slogger
That is awesome, great layout.
Thanks to Rick & AWOL
workboot
09-13-2007, 10:08
Looks great....thanks
Looks great to me, and donating WB members get 10% off.
The Weasel
09-13-2007, 10:19
Just blinkin' beautiful.
The Weasel
warren doyle
09-13-2007, 10:56
I wish WhiteBlaze well on its new endeavor.
I will continue to supply information for the 'hearts and minds' of prospective AT long distance hikers through face-to-face interactions at the Gathering, Appalachian Trail Institute, Damascus Trail Days and various other venues.
No matter how much info one has on 'things' along the trail (distances; elevation changes; water sources; shelters; motels; hostels; dining establishments), one's will, determination, level of comfort, threshold of pain and temperament will be the most important 'things' to accomplish what one has set out to do.
In all the plethora of guidebooks, maps, data books, companions, handbooks, whiteblaze pages, this fundamental truth can easily be overlooked.
Happy trails!
Awol2003
09-13-2007, 11:17
Looks good. Definitely what I'll carry. How large is the book and is it bound? Maybe I'm confused.
The book is a bound paperback, tentatively sized 5x8. You have the OPTION of ordering it loose-leaf, to save the effort of those who intend to rip out the pages anyway.
...and, if you want it unbound, we can also send it to you in sections, at maildrops along the trail.
Hi Rick,
Congratulations on the new book! This will certainly free up some time here in my office, as I will not permit our publishing offices to put out a book to compete with White Blaze Pages!
The ideas we shared via phone seem to be getting put to good use, and I respect all of the time and effort that you have put into White Blaze online, and I wish this endeavor the best success!
It is wonderful that a portion of the proceeds are going to a worthy organization such as the ATC, and I trust the members of White Blaze will support this effort in a grand way. :)
Our publishing offices have several titles in the works at this time, and we welcome any inquiries from Appalachian Trail hikers who would like to share their A.T. adventure with the world, either in hard copy or via ebook.
Thank You to the hundreds of hikers who responded by emailing us and reserving your guide for next year. Please support the White Blaze Pages !
Sincerely,
"Smile"
Rain Man
09-13-2007, 11:53
I only have one question,-- is it oriented South-to-North, the way GOD ALMIGHTY intended???
:D
Rain:sunMan
.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-13-2007, 12:15
Nice format. Will the Database still be available online?
ATRagamuffin
09-13-2007, 12:27
:banana
Wonderful! No more cutting and stapling to get the mileage data, services information, and elevation profile all on the same page.
I only have one question,-- is it oriented South-to-North, the way GOD ALMIGHTY intended???
:D
Rain:sunMan
.
Yes it is in a South to North format right now.
Nice format. Will the Database still be available online?
Yes right now it is still available and plans are to keep it available. In fact Veteran sent me an update to it a month ago and I have been to busy on this book to post it.
Scrollner
09-13-2007, 14:13
The book looks great! Love the format. Will there be an electronic version of the book available? (like to download to a PDA)
Jack Tarlin
09-13-2007, 14:24
You mean so people can get it for free, like the Thru-Hikers Companion?
Um, I wouldn't count on it.
It does seem strange to name the whiteblaze community on the cover and not tell us anything about the publication. Jack raises interesting questions that should be answered.
Scrollner
09-13-2007, 14:38
You mean so people can get it for free, like the Thru-Hikers Companion?
Um, I wouldn't count on it.
No, I meant you could pay to download it. You know, save paper, trees etc.......
john gault
09-13-2007, 17:50
Will this be updated yearly and how's the data collected?
Jack Tarlin
09-13-2007, 17:53
If the sample page is any indication, it'd appear that much of the data.....mileage, distances, elevations, etc., was merely collected and copied from previouisly published works.
generoll
09-13-2007, 18:46
I would think this has to be something like a road map. I mean, how many ways are there to say it's 10 miles from this shelter to the next and how else would you describe the altitude gain or loss.
Back in my sailing days I paid pretty good money for "Chartkits" which were basically just renderings of nautical charts published by the government. They made no claim to providing anything original. It was just a handy way of collecting the pertinent charts for a specific area for cruising sailors. You could always go out and by the same chart individually. What you were paying for was the convenience of having all the charts in one place.
SGT Rock
09-13-2007, 19:21
The way I look at a guidebook is a navigation aid - like a patrol map. I want to know where things I may want to look out for or take notice of are along the trail. Items of interest to plan my day include where the shelter is and where the water is, but I could care less about when it was made or why it was named what it is named - at least not in my guidebook. I also don't need to know who maintains that section or other superfluous information to getting where I am going. Add to that I want it laid out like a patrol sketch - put the information in a sequential order so I can look down the list for what I want - not a list of mileage and info one place an then require bouncing back and forth between that data and the actual meat about the trail to see if that location has information I need. Setting a guidebook up like that isn't that hard at all.
For planning, there are nice things to know like post office zip codes, but I don't want to take all that information with me. At least the Companion has sections I don't have to take unless I want to - but there is also information embedded in the pages that take up substantial room that could also be moved into the appendix as well (like maintainer clubs and park rules) and leave the rest of the guide in an easy to break up and use format.
IMO the Companion has a whole lot more information than is needed. The town descriptions at times are tediously large - it seems as I was reading this years that some of the regional editors are trying to outdo each other with how much stuff they can write about when it comes to their towns.
Awol2003
09-13-2007, 22:07
It does seem strange to name the whiteblaze community on the cover and not tell us anything about the publication. Jack raises interesting questions that should be answered.
There is another thread going about "Competing Guidebooks" where I have posted answers to these questions. Please look in that thread and let me know if there is anything that I failed to clarify.
I would suggest that discussion in this vein be done in that thread so people don't have to jump back & forth to get the full scoop.
Awol2003
09-13-2007, 22:17
Will this be updated yearly and how's the data collected?
There will be an annual update, just like the companion et al.
The mileage data is freely provided by the ATC. The town data, and tid-bits of trail info are provided by people (like me and others here on WB) calling and or visiting locations. Asking around. People in these trail towns are very interested in telling us all about their area.
For example, I spoke with a friend in Amicalola who told me that the Approach Trail will be rerouted to follow the steps next to the waterfall. We'll have info like that from legwork.
A ton of phone calls need to be made, and that is an area with which help is needed. Hikers who live in these towns will be best for this...hope some of them step forward.
Awol2003
09-13-2007, 22:27
The book looks great! Love the format. Will there be an electronic version of the book available? (like to download to a PDA)
We've got much work ahead simply to gather and publish the info. I've had no time to give that any thought. Will your PDA make sense of a print-formatted PDF?
If the sample page is any indication, it'd appear that much of the data.....mileage, distances, elevations, etc., was merely collected and copied from previouisly published works.Well, mileages are mileages. The elevation of Springer is the same no matter what book it's in, right? And it's 7.6 miles from Springer to Hawk Mtn Shelter now matter what book it's in. Why should the mileages, elevations and distances be different in this guidebook?
In the other thread, they said that the ATC is giving them data just like they gave it to Wingfoot.
I think it's cool as hell to have a Whiteblaze guide. And the timing is perfect with Wingfoot getting out of the business.
Scrollner
09-14-2007, 07:22
Yes, I can read PDF's on my PDA:)
Awol2003
09-14-2007, 08:49
Yes, I can read PDF's on my PDA:)
Scrollner, could you nab the PDF that we used as sample page and see how it looks on your PDA? If there is something that prevents you from getting that file, please send me an address to which I can email to you. Maybe we could figure out a way to make it work.
OOOOH! I want one!
Will start saving my pennies now :rolleyes:
As some of you may know, we have been working on a new guidebook for the Appalachian Trail. It has been in the works for almost two years. It is now a reality; the book is called WhiteBlaze Pages. This book has some new and unique features. Visit WhiteBlazePages.net (http://whiteblazepages.net/) to check it out.
The book will be ready prior to the upcoming thru hiking season. Pre-order it now! (http://whiteblazepages.net/)
We will always strive to make our book as accurate as possible. To that end, we will make updates right up to the day when the book is printed. WhiteBlaze volunteers will call every business in every trail town. If you would like to participate in this effort, please let us know (http://whiteblazepages.net/forum/sendmessage.php).
This book will be a success for years to come.
The Weasel
09-15-2007, 11:50
I won't say this as clearly as I wish, but I'll try:
The "lost on the AT" thread mentions that problem, and I put this response in it a few minutes ago:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=27679
In 2000, the Maptech program (which permitted large-scale topos to be printed on 8x11 paper and also had elevation profiles) was state of the art, since the CDs also had the complete ATC Guides, which I also printed a section at a time. WhiteBlaze Pages and the mapping program mentioned elsewhere look to be the new standard. It would be fascinating if they could be integrated with each other to provide a seamless guide/map that could be viewed online together as well as printed in pieces.
The Weasel
I wonder at the accuracy of the data - for example on the sample description page 2 of the 4 URLs listed are wrong - now I know there is a major rush to get this book out but really it takes next to no time to check the URL in a PDF file - just click it and see if it works.
btw the corrections for the URLs: the Tripod link for Standing Bear Farm does not use the "www." prefix and the Duckett House link is spelled wrong (only one T instead of the correct 2 Ts)
Awol2003
09-15-2007, 15:07
Coincidentally, Curtis emailed me less than an hour ago with this:
Awol,
I just checked out the "sample" description page view @ whiteblaze and thanks, my listing is part of that.
Here's a few corrections, but other then this everything you've got is right on.
!. Waterville School Rd. is not legit. The road is there but its been renamed years ago to Green Corner Rd., which of course is the road we live on.
This has been historically a problem between us and publishers of books and maps.
My hikers get really confused about it.
Now "South" of I-40 that road is called Waterville Rd.
We're on the North Side FYI.
2. email address - use this one - cvowen@wildblue.net 3. Our rates for the Cabin changes during the off season...
[...omitted: he mentions that he is still undecided about some things...]
Thanks for all you're doing.
Regards,
Curtis
He missed the URL error, too! Anyway, we will have great info, because we are working to gather and enter a bunch of inputs. Great suggestion on teh URL checking; someone will do that...are you volunteering?
This has been historically a problem between us and publishers of books and maps.
Hmmm, not an error in the 2007 Companion, hey have it correct. ;)
Anyway, we will have great info, because we are working to gather and enter a bunch of inputs. Great suggestion on teh URL checking; someone will do that...are you volunteering?
Am I volunteering ? NO !!!
As top why I am not volunteering - old history and the same reason I will never donate to Whiteblaze again.
One of the things that annoy me - I can't suppress the advertising for this book like I can all the other advertising on this site.
Do I expect to get flamed for my bad attitude? Of course - this is Whiteblaze - go ahead and give it your best shot.
HOI, no flaming here but, I'm curious how do you suppress the advertising, the Firefox extension Ad Block? And what do you have against ads?
Think Spring
09-16-2007, 19:34
Wonderfulllllll! Glad to see I'll have access to a "2008" guide, as I was planning to use my 2007 guide from Wingfoot. BUT, ....I'm an "older gentleman", and will need to begin NB early in '08,.....say early March. They'll be ready by then?
Think Spring
I guess this is the best place to ask questions about the book. In the ordering section, I didn't see where it allowed us to select the option to have it unbound. I just carry individual pages, so getting them all in the mail like that would save me time, and whiteblaze money.
Also, with the watermark profiles. Are they matched to the text that overlaps them? Meaning, if the line I am reading says 3000 ft. elevation, is the part of the watermark under that line the 3000 ft. mark.
HOI, no flaming here but, I'm curious how do you suppress the advertising, the Firefox extension Ad Block? And what do you have against ads?
two things - Firefox + Adblock for most of the real ads and general clutter of images plus just minimizing things like the Monthly Sponsor or the "news" blurbs like "Journals Open"
the more I suppress the faster the page comes up on my slow connection
Awol2003
09-16-2007, 20:57
AT Troll will be putting more polish on the order page as time permits. For now, Paypal may allow you to enter a message and you can say so there (or email Troll). We also need to finalize the "maildrop" option, for which we are open to inputs.
To mange this logistically, we would likely send the first installment to your home, and pick 6-8 somewhat-evenly distributed locations on the trail. It could be done in individual mailings based on your schedule, but it would be better if we are able to work with hostels/outfitters along the trail who would hold some number of the installments and pass them out as people came along. That would alleviate potential lost-in-the-mail or came-to-late problems.
We plan to ship the book in January.
The profiles will not align perfectly with the text lines. It will start and end at the approximately the same mileage, but landmarks along the trail are non-uniformly spaced, so we can't make it perfect. We will pad or crunch lines - a lot of hand-tweaking - to keep the alignment as good as possible. It worked out pretty well on the draft page; the lowest point (HS) and highest point (Camp Creek Bald) are right on.
The profiles will not align perfectly with the text lines. It will start and end at the approximately the same mileage, but landmarks along the trail are non-uniformly spaced, so we can't make it perfect. We will pad or crunch lines - a lot of hand-tweaking - to keep the alignment as good as possible. It worked out pretty well on the draft page; the lowest point (HS) and highest point (Camp Creek Bald) are right on.
The watermark profiles are what sold me on the guidebook. All I planned on carrying as far as maps were cut out profiles from the AT maps. I don't care what the trail looks like from above, that doesn't help me. The elevation changes does. As long as they are close enough to where I can plan breaks, water refills, and know what section will be the most difficult for the day.
Appalachian Tater
09-16-2007, 21:24
We also need to finalize the "maildrop" option, for which we are open to inputs.
To mange this logistically, we would likely send the first installment to your home, and pick 6-8 somewhat-evenly distributed locations on the trail. It could be done in individual mailings based on your schedule, but it would be better if we are able to work with hostels/outfitters along the trail who would hold some number of the installments and pass them out as people came along. That would alleviate potential lost-in-the-mail or came-to-late problems.
You're voluntarily submitting yourself to this kind of a logistical nightmare? Seems like it would be hard enough to publish a good book and get it mailed out on time--once. Chapter by chapter? Let people manage their own maildrops. There's a reason so many places don't even accept maildrops, or charge if they do.
You're voluntarily submitting yourself to this kind of a logistical nightmare? Seems like it would be hard enough to publish a good book and get it mailed out on time--once. Chapter by chapter? Let people manage their own maildrops. There's a reason so many places don't even accept maildrops, or charge if they do.
I agree. For $15, the book is enough.
(Pointless edit. Just ignore)
The watermark profiles are what sold me on the guidebook. All I planned on carrying as far as maps were cut out profiles from the AT maps. I don't care what the trail looks like from above, that doesn't help me. The elevation changes does. As long as they are close enough to where I can plan breaks, water refills, and know what section will be the most difficult for the day.
There's really no need for the profiles graphs as the elevations are right there. As you read them you'll get a mental image. The same data is in the Companion.
Sly,
One of the threads discussing this book (I don't recall which one) explained that the elevation profiles are not simply proporational to the elelvations listed at each line because the listings on the page are not equally spaced. It would seem that because of this the watermarked profiles offer an advantage the format used in other guide books, but of course it may not be for everyone.
Appalachian Tater
09-17-2007, 10:41
There's really no need for the profiles graphs as the elevations are right there. As you read them you'll get a mental image. The same data is in the Companion.
A visual representation is helpful to the majority of people. I even saw people plotting the data into their own profile maps.
A visual representation is helpful to the majority of people. I even saw people plotting the data into their own profile maps.
The profiles are how I plan my day. Example: The first listing is a gap at 1000' elev. The next listing is another gap at 1300', and the third and fourth listings are gaps. THis is common in the guidebooks. I know the elevation of the gaps, but have no clue as to the elevation or slope of the big earthy mounds in between that make them gaps. That's what I want to know. Another example is a 1000' climb in one mile. All the guide will tell you is that in the next mile you will climb 1000'. Is that a constant climb, or does it level off for a while and get really steep to make up for the level ground? The listings tell you the points, I want the profile to know what is in between.
minnesotasmith
09-18-2007, 04:25
When they're available, I want to buy one.
To mange this logistically, we would likely send the first installment to your home, and pick 6-8 somewhat-evenly distributed locations on the trail. It could be done in individual mailings based on your schedule, but it would be better if we are able to work with hostels/outfitters along the trail who would hold some number of the installments and pass them out as people came along. That would alleviate potential lost-in-the-mail or came-to-late problems.
This is your business. This is your book. You can do what you like. But....
I think this is a bad idea for a couple of reasons.
1. The trail shouldn't IMO be made any easier for people. Carrying a few extra ounces or sending a mail drop is really no big deal. It's part of the process. Sell the book in segments. That's perhaps a better idea, and will allow hikers to purchase what they need when they need it.
2. Packaging. That's really the big issue for me. Instead of wrapping one book in 6-7 different manilla envelopes, just ship it intact once. We should be striving to reduce our consumption of natural resources and our impact on the environment. Not increase our impact.
For me, the advantage of a smallish guide is to carry the whole book the whole way. The size is what I like about the WF guide.
I found it handy to have the whole trail in one book. If I was in contact with someone I was going to visit a month down the trail, I could look at the book while I was talking to them on the phone, figuring out where the best place to meet them would be.
I also used it as a diary, marking where I stopped every night.
All the hikers I saw using WF were carrying the whole thing.
As has already been remarked, the perfect size would be a book that fit into a quart bag.
Marta/Five-Leaf
Awol2003
09-21-2007, 14:35
The book (as sold from our website) will be deilvered in a zip-lock bag.
The book (as sold from our website) will be deilvered in a zip-lock bag.
I like it!
minnesotasmith
09-24-2007, 04:23
The book (as sold from our website) will be deilvered in a zip-lock bag.
Is it a standard size, say a quart? No plastic baggie used daily will hold together for the length of a normal thruhike.
Creek Dancer
10-10-2007, 12:50
So who do I contact regarding a charge on my credit card for this guidebook. Yes, I ordered the guidebook, but I never expected to be charged for this until the item was sent. Afterall, that is how most online sales work. What's the deal?
I guess I should contact Atroll.
Jack Tarlin
10-10-2007, 12:52
The deal is that you got charged before the item was sent; in this case, you evidently got charged before the item was completed!
But I'm sure everything will be fine eventually.
Appalachian Tater
10-10-2007, 12:53
Is it a standard size, say a quart? No plastic baggie used daily will hold together for the length of a normal thruhike.
My guess is that they had resealable plastic bags specially manufactured in China to meet some unique dimensions they came up with to distinguish their plastic bags from all of your run-of-the-mill plastic bags. That way, you have to reorder replacements from them for $2 each. That's why the guide is so cheap to begin with.
Creek Dancer
10-10-2007, 12:53
I didn't agree to lend them my money in the meantime. :mad:
So who do I contact regarding a charge on my credit card for this guidebook. Yes, I ordered the guidebook, but I never expected to be charged for this until the item was sent. Afterall, that is how most online sales work. What's the deal?
I guess I should contact Atroll.
I am sorry about this.
At this time I can not find a way to do this through Paypal. I will look into this and see what we can do. If you or anyone else would like your money back until the book comes out or we can get this resolved then please contact and let me know.
I am going to close this thread. For any information about this please contact me directly.