View Full Version : Some More Fuel For the Fire. . .
Jester2000
10-11-2007, 23:13
Here's a little personal view on the history over the past few years of the saturday night fire at the Gathering, along with some thoughts regarding the Storytelling contest. I'd like your input, and I'll take all advice into consideration.
2001 -- Storr's. My first Gathering, and a great fire. Numbers since have never equalled it, and everyone, to my knowledge, has a great time (except, perhaps, for the person who got kicked into the fire).
2002 -- Pipestem. Numbers dramatically smaller, as many choose to stay in small groups around their tents. Still a good fire, though, and my friends and I sing a song for everyone we composed that weekend.
2003 -- Storr's. Requests that people not drink at the fire in a campground where drinking was allowed lead to my friends and I having our own fire, which is perhaps too well attended. Official fire (for which we provided some wood and cleanup afterwards) sparsely attended, but when we visit (in masks that turned out to be creepier than we thought), those in attendance seem in good spirits. We, concerned that some might think we are being exclusive, make sure to invite everyone up to our site.
2004 -- Pipestem. Told that no alcohol will be tolerated at the Folk Life Center, some of my friends and I remove ourselves to another camp ground, so as not to offend our hosts. Upon visiting the fire on Saturday night, we find almost no one there, with most staying in small groups close to their tents. Concerns are raised about the group being split up.
2005 -- Storr's. No Official Fire. In order to address concerns about noise, we remove ourselves across the pond to Area 51. It pours rain, and everyone begins to think that they should have heeded that voice that told them to build an ark. The fire is a washout, but many find some camaraderie (and food, music, and dryness) under the pavilion.
2006 -- Pipestem. Tasked by the Gathering Coordinator with "bringing back the fire," I talk it up before and during the Gathering, and decide to hold a storytelling contest at the fire. Moderate success, as more people show up and stay later, but eventually cold and wind make many retreat inside Redneck's ridiculously large (and surprisingly warm) dome tent. Afterwards, I'm told by a number of non-Billville ALDHA members that the fire was their favorite part of the weekend.
2007 -- Gettysburg. I provide the wood for Friday night, and repeat the storytelling contest. From my perspective, the largest numbers since 2001, although clearly not that large. Warm weather encourages folks to stay later, and most who attend have a good time. Amusingly, where once we were accused of abandoning the fire and splitting up the group, Billville is now accused of "taking over the fire."
For the sake of comparison:
2006 Storytelling Contest: 2 Stories by me, plus 10 contestants.
2007 Storytelling Contest: 12 contestants, with additional stories by The Goat and Jester.
Assuming that I attend the next Gathering, there will be a Billville contest, as that's just one of the stupid things we do. It may be storytelling or not, and it may be at the fire or not. All suggestions and comments are appreciated.
_terrapin_
10-11-2007, 23:17
The best part wasn't the stories, it was watching you dig through the rubbermaid bin for the "prizes."
What about having the story telling at the college as a scheduled event? Regardless, you're a clever lad, I'm sure you'll figure something out. Just... don't shoosh me bro! Wait, that's it, a tazer to keep the folks quiet.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-11-2007, 23:23
Dino will be attending and biting toes - no tasers needed.
_terrapin_
10-11-2007, 23:24
Hey Dino, welcome back. :sun
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-11-2007, 23:25
Thanks Terrapion. I'll be around for a few days and then back with my Dad for a while longer.
Jester2000
10-11-2007, 23:53
What about having the story telling at the college as a scheduled event?
I asked about this, but they won't let me build a fire in the classroom, which seems like a completely slavish attitude as regards safety.
Some may have noticed the aftereffects of my attempt to build a fire for storytelling purposes in the CUB on Friday night. . .
I asked about this, but they won't let me build a fire in the classroom, which seems like a completely slavish attitude as regards safety.
Hmmm, maybe someone should have video taped the fire, then it could have been shown on the big screen. ;)
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-11-2007, 23:59
::: Dino bites Sly on the toes for suggesting a fake fire. We pyros demand the real thing :D :::
Uncle Silly
10-12-2007, 01:01
The best part wasn't the stories, it was watching you dig through the rubbermaid bin for the "prizes."
and man, sometimes it seemed like a looooong wait for that "best part" ...
warraghiyagey
10-12-2007, 01:39
Jester,
This is maybe at the top of the most enjoyable threads I've ever read. It's an easy read and it is a great story. It makes me want to attend in 08 and be there at a fire for whatever activity may fit the occasssion.
These quick vignettes remind me of why I love to be on the trail so much, for being around good folk when good folk are around.
When and where is next year's?
It reminds me of my own trail stories, of having the best of company in the SOBO directed Mobsters the last two years. Of having people show up at our campfires of which we rarely missed a chance. And the energy you get when you invite them to your fire and they show up. Definitely a different perspective than inviting them to your home. Having your fire draw a crowd is warmer than the flames themselve.
Of music shared along the way. Of good people being in a place for such a comfortable, beautiful good reason.
If I show up I'll have twelve-string in tow, just in case the moment presents itself, as it has in Monson and Dalton along the way.
And I'd be honored to help build and tend the fire. And meet so many of the great trail folk and the excellent people here at WB.
Not sure what your intention is with the stories, but their succinctness tells such a great story that maybe you'd expand on them.
But what seems appropriate is that if you could show up next year, you head up the campfire with whatever form these stories come to you and let the neight progress from there.
Thanks so much for the trail energy.
Meeting my Mobster friend Brit at Roan Mt. Tuesday to head SOBO to Springer.
Peace All
Lone Wolf
10-12-2007, 08:18
What about having the story telling at the college as a scheduled event? Regardless, you're a clever lad, I'm sure you'll figure something out. Just... don't shoosh me bro! Wait, that's it, a tazer to keep the folks quiet.
Billville can have the campfire unless i go a week early and buy a cord of wood then i can decide what goes on around the fire? otherwise i'll have an alternate campfire for those who want to chat at the fire without being SHOOSHED.
Jester2000
10-12-2007, 21:17
Billville can have the campfire unless i go a week early and buy a cord of wood then i can decide what goes on around the fire? otherwise i'll have an alternate campfire for those who want to chat at the fire without being SHOOSHED.
How about we still do the storytelling, but I make and distribute "No SHOOSHING!" T-Shirts?
One for the suggestion box:
Make two, side-by-side fires. One is for storytelling and one is for hanging out and having talking to new and old friends. See which one draws the bigger audience. :D
OK, two for the suggestion box:
Time limits! :eek:
_terrapin_
10-12-2007, 21:30
Tin Man, your suggestion #1 is just too obvious. ;) I mean, seriously. I'm sure the cordage isn't an issue.
Jester2000
10-12-2007, 21:30
Time limits are a good idea. In 2006 there was a five minute time limit, although I enforced it only if the person was meandering and losing the crowd. I neglected to set that rule this year, and that's entirely my fault. Perhaps that's the thing that made the difference between the two.
As for two side by side fires, I think that one should be shirts and one should be skins.
As for two side by side fires, I think that one should be shirts and one should be skins.
Or Blue vs. Grey led by Generals Jack and Doyle, respectably (or should that be respectfully). :D Hmm, I wonder whose army would be larger? :-? I know, too obvious. ;)
How about we still do the storytelling, but I make and distribute "No SHOOSHING!" T-Shirts?
Sponsored by Nike. Oh wait that's swoosh.:p
Uncle Silly
10-13-2007, 00:37
Or Blue vs. Grey led by Generals Jack and Doyle, respectably (or should that be respectfully). :D Hmm, I wonder whose army would be larger? :-? I know, too obvious. ;)
I believe the terms you're looking for are "Generals Tarlin and Doyle" and "respectively".
And just as a reminder, size doesn't matter.
I believe the terms you're looking for are "Generals Tarlin and Doyle" and "respectively".
And just as a reminder, size doesn't matter.
Oops, silly me. :o
And I know, credibility matters.
....As for two side by side fires, I think that one should be shirts and one should be skins.
Would you get a bigger crowd if one was for the skins and one for the pants?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-13-2007, 08:59
I believe the terms you're looking for are "Generals Tarlin and Doyle" and "respectively". And just as a reminder, size doesn't matter.
Oops, silly me. :o.... And I know, credibility matters.What an incredible exchange :D
Having two fires in the general vicinity of each other does make a lot of sense. People are going to talk with one another around the fire and the story-telling event needs a fire for warmth and ambiance. Providing separate areas for story-telling and for chatting will reduce the need for 'shushing' at the story-telling event and will allow people to do the 'meeting & greeting' that are also an integral part of the whole gathering experience.
warraghiyagey
10-13-2007, 16:21
What an incredible exchange :D
Having two fires in the general vicinity of each other does make a lot of sense. People are going to talk with one another around the fire and the story-telling event needs a fire for warmth and ambiance. Providing separate areas for story-telling and for chatting will reduce the need for 'shushing' at the story-telling event and will allow people to do the 'meeting & greeting' that are also an integral part of the whole gathering experience.
Agreed. Nice work FD.
warren doyle
10-13-2007, 16:56
No generalship for me. "War! What is it good for. Absolutely nothing!"
I'll stick to Trail Jeopardy, The Hikin' Game and calling the traditional 'Intersection Reel' at the Saturday night dance.
Jack Tarlin
10-13-2007, 17:13
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing?
Seems to me it was a pretty good idea in 1775, 1861, and 1941 but maybe that's just me. :-?
Some of us folks who spend so much time walking in the hills and mountains might do well to remember the people whose sacrifice gave us the right to do so.
But again, maybe that's just me.
warraghiyagey
10-13-2007, 17:58
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing?
Seems to me it was a pretty good idea in 1775, 1861, and 1941 but maybe that's just me. :-?
Some of us folks who spend so much time walking in the hills and mountains might do well to remember the people whose sacrifice gave us the right to do so.
But again, maybe that's just me.
Problem is other notable years you left out. 2003. 1984 (most people have forgotten), 1962-73, maybe even 1950 (arguable on both sides for sure).
I would have included 1918 and 1812 on your list.
But most American Legions you visit have some sort of plaque system denoting the wars our country has fought.
The ones I've seen show that as a country we have not enjoyed 1 year of not being at war somewhere in the world.
If even one was unjust we have done a horrible thing in the world and representing our ideals as a nation.
It was more comfortable when we were perceived as the good guys. But with this very internet the eyes of the world are a lot bigger, and we're not the good guys anymore. We could have done better. Much better. We used to - at times.
Uncle Silly
10-13-2007, 18:01
Seems to me it was a pretty good idea in 1775, 1861, and 1941 but maybe that's just me.
It's not just you, but it's not a universal truth either. Don't believe the hype -- those wars were all instigated by rich folks who wanted a little more control over resources than what they already had. None of them were for the benefit of your freedom, or mine. That's nothing but a convenient justification for all of them.
Jack Tarlin
10-13-2007, 18:11
So the farmers who were shot dead on Lexington green or at Bunker Hill were all rich guys, Silly?
Um, I don't think so.
Jack Tarlin
10-13-2007, 18:13
Just noticed the political thread drift here.....let's bring this back to the campfire, OK?
warraghiyagey
10-13-2007, 18:24
Just noticed the political thread drift here.....let's bring this back to the campfire, OK?
I (heart) campfires.:) :) :sun
warraghiyagey
10-13-2007, 18:29
So the farmers who were shot dead on Lexington green or at Bunker Hill were all rich guys, Silly?
Um, I don't think so.
Crap. Wanted to talk about campfires. But you make an excellent point - against wars. It's never the rich guys that die, in any war. It's the poor - mostly - that do the rich guy's bidding. Always has been. Even at the roots of our country, the generals were living palatially (by garrison standard) but were doing the bidding of men who actually did live in palaces.
Uncle Silly
10-13-2007, 18:35
So the farmers who were shot dead on Lexington green or at Bunker Hill were all rich guys, Silly?
Um, I don't think so.
You're conflating my statement about who starts wars with particulars about who fights battles. That's not remotely what I said. Do you need to reread your Howard Zinn?
Just noticed the political thread drift here.....let's bring this back to the campfire, OK?
I thought we were just piling more fuel on the fire? :D But agreed -- we'll leave the debates elsewhere.
_terrapin_
10-13-2007, 18:46
It's always the old to lead us to the war
It's always the young to fall
Now look at all we've won with the saber and the gun
Tell me is it worth it all
-- Phil Ochs, 1960-something
RedneckRye
10-14-2007, 04:07
Wow, who would of thunk that I would have stirred up the "ALDHA 2007 Gathering Official Controversy" by walking over and shooshing Lone Wolf during the story telling contest.
As the "Shooshing" unfolded to me, there were 50-60 (maybe more, maybe less) folks standing around the fire listening to the stories. From over beside me I heard another conversation as there was a story being told. It struck me as rude that someone was talking over the story..... I walked over and asked for some quiet. I'm not sure of my exact words to Lone Wolf, maybe it was "Shoosh, please Mr. Wolf", maybe it was "Shut the F-up, A-hole", probably it was something in between those two options. I didn't want to cause a ruckus, I just wanted to hear the stories without listening to some other random tale coming out of the darkness.
So now, a week later, I'm not sure if I should apologize to Lone Wolf for "shooshing" him, or to Jester for creating yet another post-Gathering controversy, or ask ALDHA for a thank you for removing the focus from the Port-A-John placement.
That is all I've got, my apologies to all involved.
Lone Wolf
10-14-2007, 08:33
Wow, who would of thunk that I would have stirred up the "ALDHA 2007 Gathering Official Controversy" by walking over and shooshing Lone Wolf during the story telling contest.
As the "Shooshing" unfolded to me, there were 50-60 (maybe more, maybe less) folks standing around the fire listening to the stories. From over beside me I heard another conversation as there was a story being told. It struck me as rude that someone was talking over the story..... I walked over and asked for some quiet. I'm not sure of my exact words to Lone Wolf, maybe it was "Shoosh, please Mr. Wolf", maybe it was "Shut the F-up, A-hole", probably it was something in between those two options. I didn't want to cause a ruckus, I just wanted to hear the stories without listening to some other random tale coming out of the darkness.
So now, a week later, I'm not sure if I should apologize to Lone Wolf for "shooshing" him, or to Jester for creating yet another post-Gathering controversy, or ask ALDHA for a thank you for removing the focus from the Port-A-John placement.
That is all I've got, my apologies to all involved.
there were 30 or so folks around the fire not 50-60 and not all were into the stories. you came over to camo and i and said, "jester asked me to tell y'all to S T FU. i don't mean to be an ahole". something to that effect. you owe no apologies. next year i'll be at the fire and will converse with whoever regadless of any story telling
I think recent past history will show that most great wars were fought over the god given right to shoosh and not be shooshed and often involved large and small fires.
warraghiyagey
10-14-2007, 09:21
there were 30 or so folks around the fire not 50-60 and not all were into the stories. you came over to camo and i and said, "jester asked me to tell y'all to S T FU. i don't mean to be an ahole". something to that effect. you owe no apologies. next year i'll be at the fire and will converse with whoever regadless of any story telling
SSHHHHHHHHH!!!
:)
Hmmm, maybe someone should have video taped the fire, then it could have been shown on the big screen. ;)
Memories of the Yule Log from Christmas' past. I think it was on channel 11 in NY.
warraghiyagey
10-14-2007, 09:29
Memories of the Yule Log from Christmas' past. I think it was on channel 11 in NY.
Aahhhh. The Christmas Eve Yule log. Who can forget snuggling up on a cold, magical winter night in front of the fireplace. . . err - TV.
I especially liked the chase scene.:D
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-14-2007, 10:28
::: Dino observes that two fires could have prevented this tragic turn of events :::
saimyoji
10-14-2007, 12:16
::: Dino observes that two fires could have prevented this tragic turn of events :::
Nah, they'd have found something else to bitch about.
Nah, they'd have found something else to bitch about.
No drama? :eek:
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-14-2007, 14:25
::: Dino observes that two fires could have prevented this tragic turn of events :::
Nah, they'd have found something else to bitch about.
No drama? :eek:
::: Dino notes that using the gripers for kindling would provide both relief and drama :D :::
Uncle Silly
10-14-2007, 15:42
Aahhhh. The Christmas Eve Yule log. Who can forget snuggling up on a cold, magical winter night in front of the fireplace. . . err - TV.
I especially liked the chase scene.:D
They had a chase scene on a Yule log broadcast??
::: Dino notes that using the gripers for kindling would provide both relief and drama :D :::
Actually, FD, that's not drama... that's comedy!
Nightwalker
10-15-2007, 12:46
And just as a reminder, size doesn't matter.
That's just what they say when they don't want to hurt your feelings. :D
Jester2000
10-15-2007, 18:27
Well, while it might make sense to some, we're not going to have two fires. I have no problem with setting time limits per person, and no problem setting a time limit for the whole thing (say an hour or so), which, if scheduled at a definite time, would allow those who don't want to participate as either storyteller or listener to avoid the whole thing for a bit.
Two fires? Again, I will point out that where once we were accused of abandoning the fire and separating the group, we are now in the position of being viewed by some as hijacking the fire. Having another fire doesn't really make sense to me.
I have absolutely no problem not doing it at all, if that's the general consensus. Billville contests used to only involve Billville, but they've evolved in a way that I like, as they now include more people.
But for the record, Redneck's numbers are more accurate than Lone Wolf's -- I counted, at two separate points in the evening, 60 and 68 people at the fire (obviously not completely accurate, as there was some shifting around, but I've become pretty good at counting). Total numbers for those who spent some time at the fire would be higher, as people came and went, and it was warm enough that no one needed to stay near the fire for warmth.
_terrapin_
10-15-2007, 19:28
Do I understand correctly that the fire and/or storytelling are controlled or managed by Billville (as opposed to "ALDHA"?) Or do you (Jester) speak for ALDHA directly in Message #46, where you decree that there will be only one fire?? I'm confused.
Jester2000
10-15-2007, 19:45
Do I understand correctly that the fire and/or storytelling are controlled or managed by Billville (as opposed to "ALDHA"?) Or do you (Jester) speak for ALDHA directly in Message #46, where you decree that there will be only one fire?? I'm confused.
I'm no longer an ALDHA Board member, so I'm no longer someone who can speak "for" ALDHA in any official capacity. And the fire is an ALDHA thing. When I say "we're not going to have two fires," it's an opinion rather than some sort of official pronouncement. Hell, we could have thirty fires for all I have to say about it at this point, although I have been the person who was "responsible for the fire," for the past two years, whatever that means (and that included sleeping next to it for three nights this year, as I could not put it out and didn't want to leave it unattended).
I think, though, that it would be fair to say that the fire is an ALDHA thing, and the storytelling contest is a Billville thing, and for the past two Gatherings they have happened in the same space (although, despite what one might gather from the posts here, the contest did not go on all evening).
Billville has a history of contests, and most of our events involve some sort of contest. At first they changed every time and were exclusively entered by Billville folk, but things have changed over time. Many non-Billville citizens, for example, enter the Bad Hiking Poetry Contest at the Winter Warmer, and the BSR Useless Gear Contest at TD attracts a lot of non-Billville participants and audience members. Once you've taken part in a contest, though, Billville kind of considers you a citizen. So kind of like the mob in that respect.
If it helps at all, I'm pretty much confused all the time, so you're not alone. But two fires seems wasteful and unnecessary.
_terrapin_
10-15-2007, 19:52
If it helps at all, I'm pretty much confused all the time, so you're not alone. But two fires seems wasteful and unnecessary.
Well, it struck me as a fairly simple solution to Lone Wolf's complaint (err... "observation.") And though I'm a newbie to Gatherings, I understand what LW is getting at.
Uncle Silly
10-16-2007, 17:29
Well, it struck me as a fairly simple solution to Lone Wolf's complaint (err... "observation.") And though I'm a newbie to Gatherings, I understand what LW is getting at.
It sounds simple, but in doing so you have to double the logistics of having a single fire: double the wood to fuel them; double the time spent tending them. I'm not sure where the wood comes from, but either it was officially purchased by ALDHA or it was donated. Are YOU volunteering your time and resources to gather or purchase extra firewood or to manage the extra fire?
Lone Wolf
10-16-2007, 20:37
It sounds simple, but in doing so you have to double the logistics of having a single fire: double the wood to fuel them; double the time spent tending them. I'm not sure where the wood comes from, but either it was officially purchased by ALDHA or it was donated. Are YOU volunteering your time and resources to gather or purchase extra firewood or to manage the extra fire?
i will buy wood and volunteer to build an alternate fire
Jester2000
10-16-2007, 20:56
i will buy wood and volunteer to build an alternate fire
I think that the alternate fire would be a great place to have the Storytelling Contest.
Lone Wolf
10-16-2007, 20:59
I think that the alternate fire would be a great place to have the Storytelling Contest.
fine. then the main fire will be for us that don't want hear boring stories
Pacific Tortuga
10-16-2007, 21:03
fine. then the main fire will be for us that don't want hear boring stories
Now there is some fuel for the fire.
Jester2000
10-16-2007, 21:08
fine. then the main fire will be for us that don't want hear boring stories
Ahh, I get it. There'll be a kind of minor league system set up. The alternate fire will have the boring storytellers, and the main fire will have the excellent storytellers. . .
Do I hear a call for a third fire?
And then a fourth?
Lone Wolf
10-16-2007, 21:10
1 fire. no stories. tell your stories during the day in a classroom.
Jester2000
10-16-2007, 21:16
Wherever you try to hide, Wolf, I will find you and tell you stories.
Lone Wolf
10-16-2007, 21:17
Wherever you try to hide, Wolf, I will find you and tell you stories.
and i will interupt and refuse to be shooshed
Jester2000
10-16-2007, 21:30
and i will interupt and refuse to be shooshed
And I will take off my pants, and put them on my head!
and i will interupt and refuse to be shooshed
And I will take off my pants, and put them on my head!
Story telling/shooshing smackdown......right here, right now. Put the kids to bed big Mama and git the your flannels on, we're gonna have some fun tonight.