View Full Version : low-income thru
Jack Tarlin
11-27-2007, 21:10
Just an observation, but most folks have spent around $1500.00 by the time they get to Central Virginia, i.e. after they've hiked around one third of the Trail.
I talked to someone from the class of '03 this year who told me she was so worried about running out of money that she spent way less than she had saved. Her mother was keeping track of her money for her. If I recall correctly, she had about $15,000 put away. When she was fairly far along and worried that she was getting to the bottom of her financial barrel, she asked her mother how much she had spent. "12," was the answer. She freaked, thinking she had spent $12,000, but in fact she had only spent $1,200.
Yeah, unless you don't mind leaving the trail half way through, and you WILL, it's best to save another year. I've been there twice, running out of money and it sucked both times. For most it' a one time thing. May as well enjoy yourself and not go on the cheap if it's at all possible.
Appalachian Tater
11-27-2007, 22:18
I talked to someone from the class of '03 this year who told me she was so worried about running out of money that she spent way less than she had saved. Her mother was keeping track of her money for her. If I recall correctly, she had about $15,000 put away. When she was fairly far along and worried that she was getting to the bottom of her financial barrel, she asked her mother how much she had spent. "12," was the answer. She freaked, thinking she had spent $12,000, but in fact she had only spent $1,200.
If she didn't know the difference between spending $12,000 and $1,200 on the kind of stuff you spend your money on during a thru-hike, it's a good thing someone else was keeping track of it for her.
I talked to someone from the class of '03 this year who told me she was so worried about running out of money that she spent way less than she had saved. Her mother was keeping track of her money for her. If I recall correctly, she had about $15,000 put away. When she was fairly far along and worried that she was getting to the bottom of her financial barrel, she asked her mother how much she had spent. "12," was the answer. She freaked, thinking she had spent $12,000, but in fact she had only spent $1,200.
What? Was she blond? :D
What? Was she blond? :D
Nope. Dark hair. Small. Helluva hiker and a nice person.
Are you dying of curiousity yet?:D
...snip...
If you have the time, take whatever money you have and go out on a trail somewhere and start hiking until you run out of either time, money, or trail. Don't worry too much about which one you run out of first. Just enjoy being out there. A long-distance hike can be a very meaningful thing and it would be a shame to miss out on it or have it too constrained by worry about resources, either time or money. So don't worry about either one.
I couldn't agree more!
Just go. Forget about whether you need $1500, $1600, $2500 or $4000. This year I broke my ankle after only 235 miles. But I was out there and I got to enjoy those wonderful first days on the trail. You never know what your thru-attempt will bring you so just get out there with whatever you've got and give it a try. (Just make sure your health insurance is paid up. ;) )
Programbo
11-27-2007, 22:36
also, to address those who think i'm blatantly ignoring you trail legends/old timers, i'm really not. a lot of you are just argument/mongers and nay-sayers just wishing you were 20 with absolutely nothing to truly worry about. hopefully ill see you all out and the trail and we can put this foolishness behind us......and as i will now likely finish most of my posts: go ahead and pick this one apart, make false assumptions and be cranky.
Aww..Just to show I`m not a nay-sayer ALL the time...I`ll tell you what...Let me know when you are getting close to Northern Virginia and I`ll meet you in Maryland somewhere..You can make a short day of it..i`ll take you for a pizza and make a contribution to your thru-hike fund
Jack Tarlin
11-27-2007, 22:40
Fifteen grand on a thru?
Geez, that works out over 180 days to around 83 bucks a day! Sweet!
And remember, there are at least a few days of every hiking week where you don't spend a cent cuz you're in the middle of nowhere, so this effectively means you're hiking on a budget of around 100 to 125 bucks a day.
To put this is perspective, I usually spend less than 600 bucks between Springer and Damascus which takes me around forty days.
Don't get me wrong, it'd be sweet to have this kind of budget, but I sure wouldn't want any newbies to think this was normal or necessary. It is, in fact, at least three times as much money as most people spend on their trip.
I sure wouldn't want to hike with only 1500.00, but you can sure have a fine hike for 3000 to 4500.00, and many folks manage to get by on siginificantly less.
Appalachian Tater
11-27-2007, 22:47
I think it would be difficult to spend that kind of money unless you deliberately sought out expensive places to stay and eat and purchased new clothing rather than washing it.
In many of the towns it simply would not be possible to spend $150 dollars a day on food and lodging without wasting a good deal of food and occupying several hotel rooms. You might be able to drink it up or spend a great deal of time in town.
I think you could SLACKPACK the AT on $15,000. Wasn't there someone on here awhile back who was promoting a slackpack for $10,000. Talk about your deep discounts! :banana
BTW, whatever happened to those folks?
Spirit Walker
11-27-2007, 23:15
I knew someone who did a $10,000 thruhike, but she would call for a shuttle and stay at a motel or B&B almost every night. She spent a lot of money on taxis.
Appalachian Tater
11-27-2007, 23:20
Well, one side trip into DC or NYC to a strip club with expensive champagne, cigars, and hookers and you could spend it all in one night. And not remember a single minute of it.
I couldn't agree more!
Just go. Forget about whether you need $1500, $1600, $2500 or $4000. This year I broke my ankle after only 235 miles. But I was out there and I got to enjoy those wonderful first days on the trail. You never know what your thru-attempt will bring you so just get out there with whatever you've got and give it a try. (Just make sure your health insurance is paid up. ;) )I agree with this also. It's a very nice approach.
If all you wish to spend is $1500, even though you have more to fall back on, then go, and see how far it can get you. If Jack and Frost are correct, and you only make it 600 miles, so what? I still think the whole shebang thing is very doable on $1500, including return fare. Whether it is enjoyable or not is a very subjective thing. People have rowed across the Atlantic and found it enjoyable. Of course they didn't have to row past too many resorts along the way. In that sense a frugal passage in the Carribean could be very tough indeed.
The best way to save up for a frugal thru-hike would be to start being frugal now. I am on my second day without fast food. Figure I've saved $10 so far. Geez, if I had been eating at the Ritz I've have saved even more. Anyhow, we'll see how far I make it. 98 days to go.
Appalachian Tater
11-28-2007, 09:38
The best way to save up for a frugal thru-hike would be to start being frugal now. I am on my second day without fast food. Figure I've saved $10 so far. Geez, if I had been eating at the Ritz I've have saved even more. Anyhow, we'll see how far I make it. 98 days to go.
I saved over $20,000 this past weekend by not flying to Paris on a last-minute first-class ticket and living it up for a couple of days. At this rate, I'll be a millionaire in a well under a year.
You fool. Why didn't you not take the Concorde?
You've have saved even more and not gotten there even faster.
You fool. Why didn't you not take the Concorde?
You've have saved even more and not gotten there even faster.
Uh.. he'd had to buy his own, which would have saved him even more.
Oh that's right. Funny, I should have remembered.
I was one of those that had not taken the last flight.
The hardest stuff to pass up might be the serendipitous stuff. Like stumbling across a small diner, or a small fruit stand on the side of the road. I think it is definitely worth carrying money for that sort of thing. Also other things that provide you with more flexibility, like buying groceries in a small grocery store that might not be quite as cheap as the big ones, but saves you some time and distance and provides a small operation with some business. I would mostly be interested in avoiding the places that are constantly inundated with hikers, especially if prices are inflated as a result. Admittedly it is a fairly grey area which is which sometimes. Anyhow, if one can't always be a Cynic, they might at least try and be a Stoic.
Johnny Thunder
11-28-2007, 10:28
I still think the whole shebang thing is very doable on $1500, including return fare.
Jak.
If you get a moment please draw up a quick budget to show us how the whole deal can be done on $1500.
Off the top of my head here's what I see:
Greyhound $107 Philly to Georgia. $87 Maine to Philly. $194 total.
Clothing replacement/repair $200. That's factoring in the cheapest reasonable shoe replacement (probably 4 pairs b/c they're cheap) and the occasional new shirt/socks.
Medicine $75. That includes the store brand multivitamin at $10/bottle. You'd need at least 4 of these since they come 30 to a bottle. Also, you'll probably need cold medicine at one point or another. Moleskin. Bandaids. Poison Ivy soap. Allergy meds. Neosporin. Toothepaste. Toothebrush. Etc.
So, right there we're already down to $1036...which comes to less than 50 cents a mile for food. I guess if you broke it up into 20 resupplies to keep yourself out of town and in das woods you'd have $50 a stop to get you a little more than 100 miles down trail. That might work. I mean, I personally spend about $50 for a long weekend but I think you might be able to make that work for 5 or 6 days. A pile of Ramen and whatever else you can find cheap.
There you go. You now have about $36 to spend should you ever need something. Like laundry. Or a shuttle. Or an apple. Or a shower. Or one night in a Hostel. Or a prepared meal. At one single point. Along a 2100 mile walk.
Things cost money, dude.
I agree it cost money.
You could save $200ish by wearing a pair of boots that won't need replaced.
Save $40 by not buying vitamins.
Johnny Thunder
11-28-2007, 10:44
I agree it cost money.
You could save $200ish by wearing a pair of boots that won't need replaced.
I agree. Which boots are those? I'm still in the market to save myself $150 dollars of my thru-hike moneys.
Also, you're going to eat on less than $10 a day and not take a vitamin? How?
(Yes, I understand the mechanics of just not taking it. Seriously though, how?)
Johnny Thunder
11-28-2007, 10:54
I agree it cost money.
You could save $200ish by wearing a pair of boots that won't need replaced.
Save $40 by not buying vitamins.
I'm sorry, EWS. My last response sounded real snarky.
I'd be very interested in hearing what gear choices people make to ensure they don't have to replace them.
Also, what on-trail diet would you/Jak/Rob work out to make sure you're able to maintain your health for 4 months on $10 a day. That's something I'm sure everyone would like to know.
No worries, I understood, you didn't sound like an ass.
If you want boots that last they're, heavy, leather, and don't have fu-fu designs. Asolo 520's and Brasher Hillmaster's, fit and last and last for me in the rocks. Work style boots give out quickly on me due to the thin tread.
You don't need a vitamin, you think you do, but many people live on crap diets and do just fine. Just try to avoid processed junk, it is expensive most of the time anyways.
Shop what only is on sale and you'll vary you're diet a lot. Longer cooking items generally save money. Don't eat meat or soy it is expensive. A pound of pasta, beans, buckwheat, or rice is less than $1. About $2 worth of generic oatmeal or grits may make you hate it in a week. A dozen eggs are a $1.50. A liter of juice has a couple of days worth of fruit in it and is $1-2. Canned tomatoes don't have corn syrup or any other junk and are $1-2 for two-three big meal's sauce base. Garlic is a nickel or less a clove and is nothing but goodness. Potatoes and onions are cheap and healthy too.
I know it isn't comprehensive or close; but it is about the direction you steer you diet towards, grains, legumes and hearty vegetables with a few fresh fruits and vegetables thrown in; and avoiding meats, soy, sugars, and processed foods. I eat everything, so I'm not trying to promote a vegetarian diet, but just the fact that it is more feasible.
CoyoteWhips
11-28-2007, 11:45
The hardest stuff to pass up might be the serendipitous stuff. Like stumbling across a small diner, or a small fruit stand on the side of the road.
Yeah, don't pass that fruit stand! Locally grown produce is healthy food. Buy some and eat it -- that's what your frugal budget if for!
I always have great anguish at small diners. I order a grill cheese sandwich and ice water and it comes to $1.85. A 15% tip is about a quarter, but that just seems cheap. But, if I leave my minimum dollar tip, then I've tipped more than 50%. I leave the dollar, but it just feels awkward.
I would highly disagree with going on a thru-hike without vitamins to save a couple bucks, even if you're low on cash. At Sams Club, Costco, etc, you can buy the big bottles for 10-20 bucks that should get you thru the whole trail. True you can get vitamins from other food sources, but the likelihood of you eating well on the trail is low, even for a hiker with money in their pocket. It's simply not feasible to carry healthy food like fruit and veggies on the trail often enough, unless you freeze dry everything before hand.
It's hard to get around the fact that your gonna eat a lot of junk. Even the best intentioned folks end up on a diet of Snickers and Fritos because they're so calorie deficient by months 2-3. A thru-hiker diet can be really unhealthy over the long run of 6 months, and the least you can do is giving urself a fighting chance with a multi-vitamin, and gorge on fresh fruit/veggies in town.
Skimping on fancy gear is one thing. But denying yourself vitamins and decent food when you get the chance is just foolish. Your body is literally your temple out here, and you wouldn't get to Maine unless you keep it happy.
Natural food is good food, it is heavy and fresh stuff requires more careful handling procedures than Fruit Roll Ups. You can spend more money to carry dried out and processed stuff that is lighter, takes less prep time and can be beat around, but that doesn't make it healthier.
Take the time to cook and carry the weight, or buy crap food and eat vitamins.
How are burgers and ice cream decent food? They're full of calories, and so is oil, lard and Crisco.
Vitamin pills are mainly an American thing, somehow the rest of the world (and many Americans) gets by without them.
In my younger days, women could sometimes get away with some of the above crap, by tempting me with their wares, but now they just get an earful that they don't like.
Really? Wait again, until you're my age! :D
Nope. Dark hair. Small. Helluva hiker and a nice person.
Are you dying of curiousity yet?:D
Yeah.... will she be coming to the SoRuck? ;)
When I 1st started hiking the AT, I spent $250 on hiking boots. They lasted until NH. Found a cheaper brand at the outfitter in Hanover on sale for $120 that lasted until Maine.
Now I buy the cheapest trail shoes I can find and may go through 3-4 pairs on a LDH.
...Also, you're going to eat on less than $10 a day and not take a vitamin? How?......)
I've never taken vitamin pills -- including my six month walk home in 1993.
I did usually sample the all you can eat salad bars in my every sixth day (it varied according to what was available) visit to town. Nor was i attempting to do the trail on $1,500.
Weary
Natural food is good food, it is heavy and fresh stuff requires more careful handling procedures than Fruit Roll Ups. You can spend more money to carry dried out and processed stuff that is lighter, takes less prep time and can be beat around, but that doesn't make it healthier.
Take the time to cook and carry the weight, or buy crap food and eat vitamins.
How are burgers and ice cream decent food? They're full of calories, and so is oil, lard and Crisco.
Vitamin pills are mainly an American thing, somehow the rest of the world (and many Americans) gets by without them.
EWS- While I don't disagree with what you're saying, you'd be hard pressed to find many thru-hikers packing out daily rations of fresh food and veggies. They are heavy, bruise easily and can be a nuisance to cook, taking much fuel consumption. If you can do this, more power to you, but I suspect you'll see otherwise when you're hiking 20 mile days, doing whatever possible to lighten packweight and are deficient some 4000 calories a day and look like you just got out of an internment camp.
As I mentioned before, freeze-drying all of your meals is always an option, but this has tremendous draw backs too. A couple I became friends with on the PCT decided to get off after 2 months and then had 3 months worth of pre-prepared meals to contend with at home. This can be a gamble.
My overall point is that one wants to give themself the greatest chance at success on the trail while minimizing weight and cost when possible. I've now done 2 thru-hikes. Could I have eaten healthier? Absolutely. Would I ever exchange lots of fresh food for vitamins? Never
I vagely remember someone here on WB had a pool that asked how many pairs of boots did you use on your thru. I think most people used more that one pair. Many used 2 to 3 pairs.
Panzer
I've never taken vitamin pills -- including my six month walk home in 1993.
Still there seem to be compelling reasons to budget for vitamin pills.
Panzer
Jack Tarlin
11-28-2007, 13:39
I think it is very telling that with very few exceptions, the people who are so adamant that one can have a fun thru-hike on a fifteen hundred dollar budget haven't actually completed one. :-?
Lone Wolf
11-28-2007, 13:41
Still there seem to be compelling reasons to budget for vitamin pills.
Panzer
nah. go slow, take 6 months and $6000. you'll eat good and get plenty of rest. vitamins are overpriced/overrated
Lotsa packsniffers here Jack!
I like your way better LW
Threads gotten even more interesting. Thanks for the question Johnny Thunder. Before I try and draw up a budget, I'll try and discuss some of the items some more.
1. Transport home. You've done this for me at $200. I wouldn't buy the tickets in advance in case I had to bail out early, but I would plan on purchasing them a week in advance of finishing or bailing out. Thanks.
2. Clothing/Gear. My clothing and gear is already pretty cheap, and I would continue to bargain shop and make repairs along the way. $200 is not a bad number, but I would try and scrape by on $100. Footwear would be my main concern, because I would expect to learn along the way what might work better than what I start with, while still being cheap. But it's fair to say I didn't include initial gear purchases in the $1500, but perhaps should have included gear depreciation in addition to gear replacement. Anyhow, by my reckoning, however flawed, I'm down to $1200. Most of this will be taken up with my frugal food and fun allowance of $0.50 per trail mile.
3. Vitamins. Before thinking frugal I had intended multivitamins. Now I am thinking of skipping the multivitamins and being more careful about what I eat. I would also like to learn more about what vitamins can be obtained by foraging. There is not a lot of carbs to be had out there, but there are a lot of vitamins and minierals, without causing much harm. Arguably this might even be lower impact than buying multivitamins. Certainly more interesting.
4. Fuel. Here my inclination is a combination of alcohol and hobbo stove, using bark and sticks and garbage where it is appropriate to do so, and using alcohol where it is not. I'm not sure what my alcohol fuel cost would be, but I would bury it in my frugal food and fun allowance of $0.50 per trail mile. It would be on the fun side, even though I can't drink it, unless of course I find an appropriate source.
5. Food. I went over this some posts back. I checked out my local grocery store on the costs of various foods that would make up a reasonably balances and palatable diet. Some staples are $0.50 per 1000kcal and help bring the average down. Some other staples are neccessary at $1/1000kcal, $2/1000kcal, and some even higher, but I think $2/1000kcal might be a good minimum for a balanced and palatable frugal diet without getting into the fun stuff. At an average total weight on feet of say 200#, I think I could sustain an average of 20 miles per day, on 2 pounds/day, or 3000kcal per 20 miles. With one day a week for resupply and rest, but the same amount of food, that works out to about $42 of basic food out a budget of $60 for 120 trail miles.
6. Fun stuff. That leaves $18 per week for fun stuff. I rough sections I might cover less ground on more food, so that would have to be considered fun all in itself. In other sections I might accumulate some funds as I withdraw my allowance based on the trail miles covered, and have some money left over after buying groceries. I am not sure how I would spend this. Some of it might go to better food at the grocery store or fresh produce at fruit stands. I might buy some hamburger as I leave town and have a feast when I hit the trail. Perhaps some of the fat can be rendered into lard and used later as food or fuel. I think I would also spend some $ now and then on a cup of coffee and perhaps a piece of apple pie, or pecan pie. I have a feeling I would enjoy it more than I do now, if I 'earned' it in this way.
7. Banking. The issue arises, how best to do the banking. I would hate to suffer $1.50 or higher services charges every time I withdraw $60. This would hurt even more than usual. Travellers cheques maybe. One way I like to travel is to put a positive balance on my credit card when I leave home. Still I perfer to pay cash, especially when budgeting, and they don't accept plastic everywhere. I think perhaps a combination of travellers cheques, credit cards, and withdrawals.
What works best for banking on the AT?
Lone Wolf
11-28-2007, 13:49
Debit card
I think it is very telling that with very few exceptions, the people who are so adamant that one can have a fun thru-hike on a fifteen hundred dollar budget haven't actually completed one. :-?And not likely to attempt one for $6000 either.
Greyhound $107 Philly to Georgia. $87 Maine to Philly. $194 total.
And the above estimate does not include transportation to and from the bus terminal or meals along the way. Add a few more bucks for that. The bus does not take you right to Springer mountain.
One way to get around this would be to get someone else to pay your way for you. I think it could easily be done for $1500 if you someone else pays part or most of your way for you. So, now were back to freeloading your way along the trail. :(
You can always find someone who will say that you can "in theory" hike the trail for $1500. But few have done it.
Although I think you can have a very nice section hike for $1500. You could easily make it to the half way point for that much.
Panzer
Thanks L.Wolf.
What are the fees like, and how best to manage that?
Lone Wolf
11-28-2007, 13:52
And not likely to attempt one for $6000 either.
why? it's a one time attempt/trip of a lifetime for MOST. why skimp on $$$ and time?
I like the idea of starting out with $1500, and just being happy getting as far as you get, without sponging off of anybody.
why? it's a one time attempt/trip of a lifetime for MOST. why skimp on $$$ and time?I would agree, if it was your only 4-6 months off, make the most of it. But there are also situations where someone might have other opportunities to spend the money, if they get some more time down the road. I see your point though. Most people's lives are not that flexible. Getting 4-6 months is hard enough. Personally, I could come up with 3 months and $1500 easier than 6 months and 6 grand. I might not make it all the way, but at least I might have a chance. It might be fun to do it in the future with my daughter though. That is worth saving for and thinking about.
Johnny Thunder
11-28-2007, 14:00
5. Food. I went over this some posts back. I checked out my local grocery store on the costs of various foods that would make up a reasonably balances and palatable diet. Some staples are $0.50 per 1000kcal and help bring the average down. Some other staples are neccessary at $1/1000kcal, $2/1000kcal, and some even higher, but I think $2/1000kcal might be a good minimum for a balanced and palatable frugal diet without getting into the fun stuff. At an average total weight on feet of say 200#, I think I could sustain an average of 20 miles per day, on 2 pounds/day, or 3000kcal per 20 miles. With one day a week for resupply and rest, but the same amount of food, that works out to about $42 of basic food out a budget of $60 for 120 trail miles.
6. Fun stuff. That leaves $18 per week for fun stuff. I rough sections I might cover less ground on more food, so that would have to be considered fun all in itself. In other sections I might accumulate some funds as I withdraw my allowance based on the trail miles covered, and have some money left over after buying groceries. I am not sure how I would spend this. Some of it might go to better food at the grocery store or fresh produce at fruit stands. I might buy some hamburger as I leave town and have a feast when I hit the trail. Perhaps some of the fat can be rendered into lard and used later as food or fuel. I think I would also spend some $ now and then on a cup of coffee and perhaps a piece of apple pie, or pecan pie. I have a feeling I would enjoy it more than I do now, if I 'earned' it in this way.
Jak,
Thanks for the response. I still believe your math to be faulty.
#1 3000 calories is a hair over my daily intake her at the 'ol incredible-shrinking office. I weigh 175 pounds and could only imagine how much weight I'd lose trying to keep it at 3000 calories walking 20 miles a day. You would too. If you believe otherwise you're just plain lying to yourself.
#2 you still ignored the other medical incidentals. What can you forage that will help cure and unexpected cut, blister, poison ivy, dog bite, etc?
#3 I don't know what you plan on eating but I've lived my entire life in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, and Connecticut know that it just plain costs more. Also, this summer I resupplied a hiker in VT and found this even more true up there. Your cost might hold up down South but these thigns that your factoring on cost a lot more up North.
But, I guess you're satisfied having freed up $306 dollars for "the fun stuff" which boils down to zip once you realize that this land of golden opportunity that you're dreaming about doesn't exist South of the border.
Also, many students when they first graduate might want to make such an attempt before they don't have the time. Once you start working for real it can be hard to stop. Also, once you start learning to spend it can be not so much fun to learn to scrape by again. Not too sure how many students really scrape by these days, and those that do, would spend it on the AT. I'll bet there are some though.
Johnny Thunder,
I know I probably eat close to 3000kcal a day here at the office also, but when I diet I don't seem to loose much at 1500kcal a day either. I've sort of built into that 3000kcal a day some body fat burning early on, though at some point there would be less to burn and I would have to carry it. But once I was lean I would have a higher fat diet, which can be cheaper per kcal I think. good points though. Never know 'til you try, but I don't think there is as much harm or shame in trying and failing as some people might think. As long as you don't resort to sponging, I don't see the problem. On the contrary it seems like it could be a rather noble quest.
Medical stuff. Yes you would certainly want health insurance, which you would want anyway I should think, but for a Canadian in the States this would be absolutely essential. As for moleskin and stuff. Luxury. ;)
Johnny Thunder
11-28-2007, 14:13
Jak,
I just plugged your weight and activity level into a caloric need calculator and found that your figures are about 50% off.
At your projected hiking weight you'd need 1,825 calories daily to maintain your daily weight at an absolute rest. Meaning, if you never left your bed that's what you'd need to eat. Factor in 360 minutes (6 hours, I'm being charitable) of moderate walking at 3.5 miles/hr (again, charitable because I haven't factored in your 25 to 45 pound pack) and your daily need is 4,417 calories a day.
Your current meal calculations have you running a 1,417 calorie per day deficit which means you're setting yourself up to lose a pound off the waist every two and a half days (3,500 calories per pound of fat). Helpful for some, dangerous for others.
Again, my numbers were highly charitable and I belive you will need significantly more thatn 4,417 calories per day just becasue you'll probably be walking harder and carrying loads. But anyway, based on a 100 day hike you'll lose 40 pounds. Healthy.
Johnny Thunder
11-28-2007, 14:15
So, right there you've literaly eaten that extra $18 a resupply...and then some.
Thanks for the concern. You are probably right. Like I said though I would initially plan on burning 1/2 pound of fat each day, and eventually add more fats and oils to the diet, which are cheaper per 1000kcal. Same difference. I would still budget $0.50. If I started wasting away I would pump it up. If I only made it to Harper's Ferry it would still be a nice walk in the woods.
Flush2wice
11-28-2007, 14:19
If you could pull off what this guy tried (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071128/ap_on_fe_st/odd_million_dollar_bill_8), you'd be hiking in style. I think he just got a little greedy.
Maybe he was looking for a free night in jail and the first attempt failed. :)
Appalachian Tater
11-28-2007, 14:55
Jak,
I just plugged your weight and activity level into a caloric need calculator and found that your figures are about 50% off.
At your projected hiking weight you'd need 1,825 calories daily to maintain your daily weight at an absolute rest. Meaning, if you never left your bed that's what you'd need to eat. Factor in 360 minutes (6 hours, I'm being charitable) of moderate walking at 3.5 miles/hr (again, charitable because I haven't factored in your 25 to 45 pound pack) and your daily need is 4,417 calories a day.
Your current meal calculations have you running a 1,417 calorie per day deficit which means you're setting yourself up to lose a pound off the waist every two and a half days (3,500 calories per pound of fat). Helpful for some, dangerous for others.
Again, my numbers were highly charitable and I belive you will need significantly more thatn 4,417 calories per day just becasue you'll probably be walking harder and carrying loads. But anyway, based on a 100 day hike you'll lose 40 pounds. Healthy.
I lost 0.5 pounds a day the first month. That's not hard to do. But even though I was overweight, that is too fast, so I made a conscious attempt to take in more calories and slow the weight loss. Strangely enough, hiking affected my appetite. Now when I walk more than a couple of miles, I get absolutely ravenous, like that hiker hunger never left me. I think my body is trying to prevent a recurrence of that weight loss.
After reading the posts of this thread, I believe that rob123ulf is asking more about HOW to do a thru-hike with a $1500 budget, rather than whether he SHOULD do a thru-hike with a $1500 budget (read between the lines).
Instead of trying to discourage him by telling him it cannot be done or that he will have more "fun" if he waits, perhaps, it would be better to impart some of the "tips" that the veteran thru-hikers have learned (i.e. use duct tape for blisters rather than the additional expense/weight of mole skin/band-aids).
Come on guys and gals, I'm sure that we have all picked up ideas that are less expensive ways of doing things and work as well/almost as well as the typical "mainstream accepted" methods.
Robs idea a using a hobo stove when he can, augmented by an alky stove when he can't use a hobo stove (fire bans) is a great idea when it comes to saving money on the cost cooking.
I may be wrong, but I thought that one of the intents of WB was to impart gained knowledge from the veteran thu-hiker to the thru-hiker wannabee about what works and what doesn't. Another thread on this site was titled something like "Is is ever OK to tell someone to just forget it?" Since most of the responses to that thread indicated that it would not be within the pervue of any of us to "judge" another, then lets try to help rob123ulf out with our hard earned knowledge, since it appears that he is going to HYOH anyway. Anyone willing to "step up to the plate?" :D
Johnny Thunder
11-28-2007, 15:06
I lost 0.5 pounds a day the first month. That's not hard to do. But even though I was overweight, that is too fast, so I made a conscious attempt to take in more calories and slow the weight loss. Strangely enough, hiking affected my appetite. Now when I walk more than a couple of miles, I get absolutely ravenous, like that hiker hunger never left me. I think my body is trying to prevent a recurrence of that weight loss.
I hear you on that. Having wrestled in High School I think I messed up my metabolism. Later on I spent a summer doing trail work and lost 15 pounds in 6 weeks.
Now, once I start running or working out I end up having to eat 4 or 5 meals a day.
It's for me to tell girlfriends and women and such that I can't keep weight on without eating fast food. That really gets them upset.
CoyoteWhips
11-28-2007, 15:09
I admit right up front I don't have any thru experience. As I read this thread, though, it seems to have evolved from "yes, but you can't afford non-trail expenses" to "footwear, medical and other incidental expenses will lower your budget to less than needed to buy food".
I am an experienced eater, though. I'm pretty sure that I can live on $6 of food a day; $2 per meal. Now, that's based on shopping at Whole Foods in Massachusetts, so there's a chance that I'd spend a little less down South.
Lone Wolf
11-28-2007, 15:12
After reading the posts of this thread, I believe that rob123ulf is asking more about HOW to do a thru-hike with a $1500 budget, rather than whether he SHOULD do a thru-hike with a $1500 budget (read between the lines).
Instead of trying to discourage him by telling him it cannot be done or that he will have more "fun" if he waits, perhaps, it would be better to impart some of the "tips" that the veteran thru-hikers have learned (i.e. use duct tape for blisters rather than the additional expense/weight of mole skin/band-aids).
Come on guys and gals, I'm sure that we have all picked up ideas that are less expensive ways of doing things and work as well/almost as well as the typical "mainstream accepted" methods.
Robs idea a using a hobo stove when he can, augmented by an alky stove when he can't use a hobo stove (fire bans) is a great idea when it comes to saving money on the cost cooking.
I may be wrong, but I thought that one of the intents of WB was to impart gained knowledge from the veteran thu-hiker to the thru-hiker wannabee about what works and what doesn't. Another thread on this site was titled something like "Is is ever OK to tell someone to just forget it?" Since most of the responses to that thread indicated that it would not be within the pervue of any of us to "judge" another, then lets try to help rob123ulf out with our hard earned knowledge, since it appears that he is going to HYOH anyway. Anyone willing to "step up to the plate?" :D
there are hardly any "veteran" thru-hikers that did a GA to ME hike on $1500
Footslogger
11-28-2007, 15:16
there are hardly any "veteran" thru-hikers that did a GA to ME hike on $1500
====================================
Probably not many (if any) who did one on less than $2000
'Slogger
Lone Wolf
11-28-2007, 15:19
my first hike back in 86 i managed to spend $3000 by Gorham
Just a Hiker
11-28-2007, 15:25
I hear you on that. Having wrestled in High School I think I messed up my metabolism. Later on I spent a summer doing trail work and lost 15 pounds in 6 weeks.
Now, once I start running or working out I end up having to eat 4 or 5 meals a day.
It's for me to tell girlfriends and women and such that I can't keep weight on without eating fast food. That really gets them upset.
You have a good point! I grew up in Ohio where wrestling is a big deal, so I wrestled from 6th grade thru 12th. In high school I played football at 200lbs and I wrestled at 175lbs. I would work my azz off to drop that 25lbs in about a month, and then maintain it. As a result I know I screwed up my metabolism. Then I joined the Marine Corps and got so skinny in boot camp that the Drill Instructors thought I was getting sick. And now, when I am on the trail, I eat non-stop because I know I'll drop weight really fast. I plan on being back on the trail before Spring, so right now I am getting as fat as I can, and I am loving every minute of it!!:banana
Just Jim
====================================
Probably not many (if any) who did one on less than $2000
'Slogger
I have the impression that Earl Shaffer might have.
doggiebag
11-28-2007, 15:32
After reading the posts of this thread, I believe that rob123ulf is asking more about HOW to do a thru-hike with a $1500 budget, rather than whether he SHOULD do a thru-hike with a $1500 budget (read between the lines).
Instead of trying to discourage him by telling him it cannot be done or that he will have more "fun" if he waits, perhaps, it would be better to impart some of the "tips" that the veteran thru-hikers have learned (i.e. use duct tape for blisters rather than the additional expense/weight of mole skin/band-aids).
Come on guys and gals, I'm sure that we have all picked up ideas that are less expensive ways of doing things and work as well/almost as well as the typical "mainstream accepted" methods.
Robs idea a using a hobo stove when he can, augmented by an alky stove when he can't use a hobo stove (fire bans) is a great idea when it comes to saving money on the cost cooking.
I may be wrong, but I thought that one of the intents of WB was to impart gained knowledge from the veteran thu-hiker to the thru-hiker wannabee about what works and what doesn't. Another thread on this site was titled something like "Is is ever OK to tell someone to just forget it?" Since most of the responses to that thread indicated that it would not be within the pervue of any of us to "judge" another, then lets try to help rob123ulf out with our hard earned knowledge, since it appears that he is going to HYOH anyway. Anyone willing to "step up to the plate?" :D
This is all IMHO.
1) Avoid the "Tour Hikers" - it's a hike not a booze fest.
2) Dollar Stores - there's usually one in most trail towns.
3) Hobo Stoves with a backup of a Alcohol kitty stove.
4) Zero in the woods.
5) Put your dirty laundry in a trashbag with enough water and some biodegradable soap .... shake and hang to dry.
6) Time your hike so you're rolling into a shelter right after the weekenders leave. Sometimes they haul too much food and leave them in shelters.
7) Watch how you walk - you can make your boots last longer by not snagging the toes on rocks and roots (once the sole on the toe starts peeling ... it's the death of the boot). Also: Some shoe goo is good for field repairs.
8) Thrift stores for clothes.
9) Buy in bulk and split things with other hikers ie: commodities like sugar, coffee, etc.
10) Get a haircut that will last - I preffer high and tights.
11) For entertainment ... people always leave books in shelters.
I'm still thinking ....
Just a Hiker
11-28-2007, 15:36
I forgot to make my point in post #312. It was this.......I could no longer hike on the cheap. I did hike cheaply in 2002 and although I was very happy to be hiking, I was also hungry all of the time, and that takes a toll on a person mentally after awhile.
Just Jim
doggiebag
11-28-2007, 15:47
One more thing to add ... Outfit with gear from a National Outfitter with a liberal return policy. I preffer REI - they swapped out a pack for a new one and replaced my boots twice with no problems. They live up to their 100% satisfaction guarantee ... plus they'll ship to trail town post offices general delivery just by calling them. It's a big relief to know than you can have your big 4 replaced without hassels.
This is all IMHO.
1) Avoid the "Tour Hikers" - it's a hike not a booze fest.
2) Dollar Stores - there's usually one in most trail towns.
3) Hobo Stoves with a backup of a Alcohol kitty stove.
4) Zero in the woods.
5) Put your dirty laundry in a trashbag with enough water and some biodegradable soap .... shake and hang to dry.
6) Time your hike so you're rolling into a shelter right after the weekenders leave. Sometimes they haul too much food and leave them in shelters.
7) Watch how you walk - you can make your boots last longer by not snagging the toes on rocks and roots (once the sole on the toe starts peeling ... it's the death of the boot). Also: Some shoe goo is good for field repairs.
8) Thrift stores for clothes.
9) Buy in bulk and split things with other hikers ie: commodities like sugar, coffee, etc.
10) Get a haircut that will last - I preffer high and tights.
11) For entertainment ... people always leave books in shelters.
I'm still thinking ....
Personally, even if I had the time, I'll admit I would find $1500 very difficult. It has a certain appeal to me though becuase it reminds me of the lean years between when I was first on my own but before I finished school. There have been lean years since, and some serious disruptions, but once you are into a world of credit cards and creative financing things are easier in some ways, though much much harder in others. This appeals to me because of the purity and simplicity of it all, like my days on my own, before I could get a loans, before I could afford a car, when it was fun to figure out the cheapest diet that still served your nutritional needs. I think in many ways such practical economics, the economics of the poor, could add to the experience rather than take away from it. It would be nice to take time to shine pennies again like they meant something, before spending them or just throwing them away.
After reading the posts of this thread, I believe that rob123ulf is asking more about HOW to do a thru-hike with a $1500 budget, rather than whether he SHOULD do a thru-hike with a $1500 budget (read between the lines).
I'm boring. I think people should ask their question directly rathen than imply. Has gotten me into trouble with past girlfriends. :D
Having said that, Weather Carrot wrote a very good article for more frugal thru-hiking.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=22959#post22959
As others have noted, WC is a very disciplined hiker.
No amount of tips will make a person that disciplined. That is up to each hiker.
I may be wrong, but I thought that one of the intents of WB was to impart gained knowledge from the veteran thu-hiker to the thru-hiker wannabee about what works and what doesn't. Isn't that what we have here? 300+ posts of people saying what works for them and what doesn't.
That was a great list Doggiebag. Thanks for the tip on return policy also. I usually don't depend on that sort of thing and hate to complicate my life with receipts and stuff, but if I do buy a good pair of boots before I thru-hike I will keep the receipt for sure. I like the sneakers and shoo goo option though. Maybe even thrift store shoes. You never know 'til you try them on. The truth is that it is hard to find a suitable pair of shoes and boots, even in an expensive outfitter. Perhaps if I make myself a pair of mocs or crocs I will have no one to blame but myself.
doggiebag
11-28-2007, 16:06
Jak
Neat thing about REI is after the $15 membership fee they keep track of all you purchases using your member number ... no need to carry receipts ... records or any of that. Pretty cool.
I think in many ways such practical economics, the economics of the poor, could add to the experience rather than take away from it.
To put it bluntlty,a good part of my childhood was lower-middle class. (Whatever the hell that means).
Screw the Springsteen crap. There is nothing noble about wondering how you are going to afford food, the mortgage and heat in the house. :) I think my brothers and I much prefer our jump to middle class "professionals".
Pop (our grandfather) retired early because of job injuries suffered in construction. Dad is on his 4th hand surgery after almost 40 yrs of sheet metal work. God bless Mom, but at 55 yrs old and with a high school education, she is finding it hard to get a job with a living wage in current New England economy. (Near retireee medical receptionists aren't in big demand it seems) And so on...
So maybe this is TMI, but I find it funny when people somehow romanticize the poor life. :)
Live frugal...yes! But don't confuse people who are FORCED to live frugally with living frugally by choice. As I said, forced frugality ain't romantic. At least from my own anecdotal view.
(BTW, I actually enjoy Springsteen)
I'm boring. I think people should ask their question directly rathen than imply. Has gotten me into trouble with past girlfriends. :D
Having said that, Weather Carrot wrote a very good article for more frugal thru-hiking.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=22959#post22959
As others have noted, WC is a very disciplined hiker.
No amount of tips will make a person that disciplined. That is up to each hiker.Thanks for that link MAGS. A good read for sure. Too often, usually in Magazines, you read articles that are supposedly about practical advice or saftey issues, but really they are just the same old plugs for turning recreation into consumption. This guys heart seems to be in the right place for sure.
MAGS,
I never said I was poor. But I was frugal, and there was pleasure in it.
Some great ideas presented dogiebag.
How about: 1. Looking for stuff on Steep&Cheap or eBay.
2. Gatorade bottles for water are a lot less expensive than
Nagalene or Platypus water containers.
3. Though "Frogg Toggs" are cool, a cheap poncho works and
you can also drape it over your pack as a pack cover.
4. Hiking a little slower will take longer but you won't burn as
many calories than if your trying to do 30 miles a day.
5. Go as lite as you can. Do you realy need that GPS or
MP3?
MAGS,
I never said I was poor. But I was frugal, and there was pleasure in it.
You said:
the economics of the poor, could add to the experience rather than take away from it.
Good for you! Having grown up, shall we say, not rich...I find it funny for people to atalk about the "economics of the poor". :)
It'd be like a person I know who is talking about the plight of poor Latinos (she is essentially getting a PhD in it). And she is as white as wonder bread. :)
True enough, but you don't need to be poor to practice or appreciate the economics of the poor. Though it does help.
Lone Wolf
11-28-2007, 16:18
True enough, but you don't need to be poor to practice or appreciate the economics of the poor. Though it does help.
kinda like Thoreau. a poorsniffer
My mother was Scottish, grew up there during the depression and the war.
That left an impression.
I would have to say we were spoiled though, by any comparison.
But she still managed to leave an impression.
And so many things in todays world just seem wrong, even when I do them myself.
kinda like Thoreau. a poorsniffer
Henry was genuinely poor, as a child by accident of birth; as an adult by choice. Though he did revive the family graphite business, so they had a few years of relative prosperity.
He did spend his final days preparing manuscripts for press, in hopes of leaving a small legacy for his mother and sister.
Weary
doggiebag
11-28-2007, 16:26
Some great ideas presented dogiebag.
How about: 1. Looking for stuff on Steep&Cheap or eBay.
2. Gatorade bottles for water are a lot less expensive than
Nagalene or Platypus water containers.
3. Though "Frogg Toggs" are cool, a cheap poncho works and
you can also drape it over your pack as a pack cover.
4. Hiking a little slower will take longer but you won't burn as
many calories than if your trying to do 30 miles a day.
5. Go as lite as you can. Do you realy need that GPS or
MP3?
And one little thing that I always carry with me to spice up anything ... Tabasco. Though it may sound trivial at this moment ... having that little bottle will pretty much make anything taste good. Ramen, Spam, rice ... so it may seem like a small luxury. It has a way of making standard cheap food more palatable. Though it's a thru-hike ... anything that can make it more comfortable is valuable. Speaking about Spam ... I usually take them out of the cans and put them in big ziplocks ... saves weight. Tha's my primary source of meat proteins. It's great to mix with Liptons sides, rice and ramen. Though there are some Spam knock offs that are cheaper - usually labeled "Luncheon meats" or something of the sort.
I think it helps to be of our generation though. Even since the 1960s and 1970s there have been considerable changes in terms of living standards, at least in most rural and urban areas. Also, for a guy of only 45, my parents were older than most. So I heard more stories direct from them also than other kids of my generation might have heard. My father was in WWII for example, and both grandfathers in WWI. That was not uncommon for people born in the 1950s, but for someone born in 1962 it gave me some advantages in my outlook on life and history.
Spirit Walker
11-28-2007, 16:30
The thing about shoes - find out what works for you before you get on the trail, if possible. I've had good luck with running shoes that lasted 700 miles and I've had shoes start to fall apart in less than 100 miles. On my first thruhike I wore a pair of Italian leather boots that lasted the whole trail, but I had blisters for at least 1/4 of the way (especially up north when it was raining every day). I knew several low budget hikers who wore Sears work boots - they lasted and were comfortable for guys that were used to wearing work boots. My husband can't wear running shoes for more than a few miles because he has very high arches and needs more support than they give. IOW, everybody is different. One answer does not fit all. Some hikers can wear cheap seconds without a problem - but the same shoes would kill my husband's feet. On me they'd simply split at the seams. YMMV
FWIW - in 1992 I knew two super low budget hikers: Weathercarrot and Monk. Both were on their second thruhikes so had some idea what to expect. Monk's budget was $600, WC's not much more. They both took several weeks off in Hot Springs to work. They took more time off in Damascus. Both were young and fun to be around, so the other hikers tended to supplement their food supply. (Much easier when you're young and appealing. The older hikers with no money didn't get nearly as much sympathy.) I would say they both enjoyed their hikes - despite the discipline. Neither were drinkers or smokers, which does help.
Not that I have neccessarily gained from those advantages, I am no saint,
but I will at least try and pass on the wisdom to my daughter. She might be able to put such wisdom to more practical use than I have. She may need to.
Spirit Walker,
How do you feel the Trail, and society in general, has changed since 1992 in terms of folks tollerance of folks on a budget? Is it any different, or are things a little edgier today, like if your not making someone rich your somehow ripping them off? How do you think Monk and Weathercarrot would make out today?
Appalachian Tater
11-28-2007, 16:49
4. Hiking a little slower will take longer but you won't burn as many calories than if your trying to do 30 miles a day.
I'm not an exercise physiologist, but my understanding is that if you hike slow, you would burn more calories to go a given distance. You would expend the same energy to move your mass the given distance, but your total baseline (or resting?) energy use would be higher because you would be taking longer to cover the distance.
Appalachian Tater
11-28-2007, 16:57
It'd be like a person I know who is talking about the plight of poor Latinos (she is essentially getting a PhD in it). And she is as white as wonder bread.
"Latinos" can be of any race or skin color or genetic heritage including European, Asian, Native American, or African. I also know Latinos who are Jewish, Protestant, and Muslim in addition to Catholic.
True enough, but you don't need to be poor to practice or appreciate the economics of the poor. Though it does help.
Tell me more about the economics of the poor?
I think I am going to write a treatise on what it is like to live in eastern Canada next. ;)
Jack Tarlin
11-28-2007, 17:02
Montego:
If you look at the very first pages of this thread, you'll see that all sorts of people were offering suggestions and advice to Rob, including doing a Search on this website (there are all sorts of threads on budgeting and financing your trip) or checking out Weathercarrot's excellent Article on budget hiking, etc. So for you to say that everyone was discouraging this guy is a little harsh; on the contrary, all sorts of folks were offering advice on how to hike inexpensively. He just didn't seem to care for some of the suggestions.
In addition to advice on hike on the cheap, they also pointed out how difficult this is to do, and why hiking on a too extreme budget makes for a difficult trip.
And this is very true.
But since you asked, here are some of the things I'd do, either before starting the trip, or later on..........
Call it 20 Quick Ideas
1. Have a separate bank account for your trip that exists ONLY for deposits
or for withdrawls that are trip connected. The tougher it is to access
your trip money, the less likely you are to spend it on other things.
2. Stop eating out, period. Whether you're in school or at work, bring stuff
from home.
3. Stop drinking out. Buy a six pack and invite your friends to your house.
4. Likewise, skip movie theaters. Rent instead.
5. Stop buying newspapers, magazines, books. Start going to your public
library instead.
6. Don't buy any new movies or music; your house is probably full of stuff
you already own and never watch or listen to.
7. Likewise, no new clothes unless it's something you absolutely have to
own, and even then, find a thrift store.
8. Learn to food shop intelligently; most folks have no idea how to do this.
Use coupons or look for specials. Buy stuff in bulk and make big dishes
like soups or chilis that will last you several days. Buy larger sized stuff
that'll last for weeks; it's crazy to buy tiny things of laundry detergent,
pints of milk, etc.
9. Stop buying soda and bottled water. One is unhealthy, the other is a pure
rip off.
10. If you drink or smoke, try to cut way back. Wean yourself off designer
beer and start rolling your own smokes.
And once you're out there on the Trail:
1. Don't food shop on an empty stomach. It leads to ridiculous impulse
purchases.
2. Make a list BEFORE you go shopping. You're less likely to forget anything;
more important, it'll get you out of the market quicker, leading to less
impulse buying of stuff you don't really need.
3. If you're staying at a hostel with a kitchen, but your food and cook there.
You'll eat better, and for less. Consider making a communal meal with
other hikers.......for five or six bucks apiece, you'll eat like kings.
4. Plan your town meals well. Maybe you can skip lunch or eat a real light
one if you know you're gonna have an enormous dinner. If you skip just
one restaurant meal in every one of your major town stops, you'll save
hundreds of dollars.
5. Plan your town/resupply stops wisely. If possible, get to town in early or
mid-morning. Do your town stuff (shopping, a meal, etc). and then GET
OUT and stay in the woods. This will save you paying for lodging and at
least one or two town meals, never mind "impulse" town purchases like
beer, movies, etc. You can't spend money in the middle of the woods.
6. Be sure you're happy with your gear before you leave, i.e. test it, hike
with it, etc. Some folks spend hundreds, if not thousands of dollars re-
placing gear they shouldn't have started with in the first place.
7. Plan your lodging BEFORE you get to town. If you pre-plan, you can share
a motel room with two or three other hikers and stay quite inexpensively.
8. Just about everything costs more up North. Save at least 60% of your
budget for North of Virginia.
9. Whatever you end up with for your planned budget, add at least 15% for
an emergency fund. You'll almost certainly end up needing it.
10. Don't start too early in the season. Most folks that do so end up
spending a lot of extra time in towns because of poor weather; in the
process, they stay in places they hadn't originally planned on, and they
stay longer. You can save several hundred dollars by starting in early
or mid-April where you'll likely encounter much better weather and will be
less tempted to spend so much time in town.
Ansd that's a quick twenty ideas......
"Latinos" can be of any race or skin color or genetic heritage including European, Asian, Native American, or African. I also know Latinos who are Jewish, Protestant, and Muslim in addition to Catholic.
Yes, it is a social as opposed to racial group. No arguement.
However, so is "white" for that matter. I, a "white" person, am darker skinned (esp in the summer) than some some Latinos . (All "racial" groups are actually social groups..but that's a major thread drift and discussion really thick books have been written about)
So my original statement still stands. She is Whiter than Wonderbread. :D
Footslogger
11-28-2007, 17:03
I'm not an exercise physiologist, but my understanding is that if you hike slow, you would burn more calories to go a given distance. You would expend the same energy to move your mass the given distance, but your total baseline (or resting?) energy use would be higher because you would be taking longer to cover the distance.
=================================
Not an exphys expert either but you have to take "wear and tear" into consideration when you're talking about a 5 - 6 month backpacking trip. When I did cover 25+ miles in a day during my thru in 2003 I felt it the next day - BIG TIME. A younger hiker's body may well be able to tolerate the beating absorbed in repeated 30 mile days but the damage will be done all the same, regardless of the number of calories burned in the process.
Just not sure I can buy the argument about a slower hiker burning more calories than a fast hiker to cover the same distance though ...
'Slogger
"Latinos" can be of any race or skin color or genetic heritage including European, Asian, Native American, or African. I also know Latinos who are Jewish, Protestant, and Muslim in addition to Catholic.
Rather than creating your own definition why don't we use the dictionary's
Main Entry:La·ti·no Pronunciation: \lə-ˈtē-(ˌ)nō\ Function:noun Inflected Form(s):plural La·ti·nos Etymology:American Spanish, probably short for latinoamericano Latin AmericanDate:1946 1 : a native or inhabitant of Latin (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/latin) America 2 : a person of Latin-American origin living in the United States
I'm not an exercise physiologist, but my understanding is that if you hike slow, you would burn more calories to go a given distance. You would expend the same energy to move your mass the given distance, but your total baseline (or resting?) energy use would be higher because you would be taking longer to cover the distance.I think there is a range within which it makes little difference. Walking is more efficient than running though. Also, when burning body fat you can cover more distance on less food by hiking slower. This is an important strategy if you are running low on food, especially carbs, but still need to get someplace. Of course if you are lean you will eventually have to replace that fat. There is probably a happy medium some place, but I suspect for someone in good shape it is pretty high mileage, which is what you said.
So maybe this is TMI, but I find it funny when people somehow romanticize the poor life.
I heard a snippet on NPR a few weeks ago saying that study of longevity amongst various economic groups showed that income was directly related to longevity, all the way up from poorest to richest. Surprisingly, there is even a difference between the hugely rich and the mindbogglingly rich.
Less money=shorter lives
More money=longer lives
There are no particular conclusions on why this is so, though they speculate that, among other things, being poor is so stressful that poor people don't even attempt to eat healthfully or quit smoking because they have so many other problems weighing on their minds.
Just thought I'd throw the info out there...
=================================
Not an exphys expert either but you have to take "wear and tear" into consideration when you're talking about a 5 - 6 month backpacking trip. When I did cover 25+ miles in a day during my thru in 2003 I felt it the next day - BIG TIME. A younger hiker's body may well be able to tolerate the beating absorbed in repeated 30 mile days but the damage will be done all the same, regardless of the number of calories burned in the process.
Just not sure I can buy the argument about a slower hiker burning more calories than a fast hiker to cover the same distance though ...
'SloggerGood point about the wear and tear. I think the optimal in terms of energy is pretty high mileage, though it obviously varies from person to person. Also there is a trade-off between short term optimals and long term optimals, and questions like how many neros and zeros should be included. I'm inclined to think a day of rest every seven makes more than mere theological sense. Six days of travel in seven is also a nice distance to travel between resupply points, assuming the towns are spaced accordingly.
Well if you have your gear and extra shoes for when you get to harpers ferry...thats more than enough money.. just dont go to hotels or out to eat. I Live in a camper van and I spend 75 $ on food every 2 weeks wich is about $5.36 a day in food... If you can keep your average food bill and try to prepare yourself for the trail then it is possible. I will amit hanging out and heading to town with new friends. you will end up spending money. Just be ready to be eating mac and cheese, ramen, and oatmeal for about 5 months.
Montego:
If you look at the very first pages of this thread, you'll see that all sorts of people were offering suggestions and advice to Rob, including doing a Search on this website (there are all sorts of threads on budgeting and financing your trip) or checking out Weathercarrot's excellent Article on budget hiking, etc. So for you to say that everyone was discouraging this guy is a little harsh; on the contrary, all sorts of folks were offering advice on how to hike inexpensively. He just didn't seem to care for some of the suggestions.
In addition to advice on hike on the cheap, they also pointed out how difficult this is to do, and why hiking on a too extreme budget makes for a difficult trip.
And this is very true.
But since you asked, here are some of the things I'd do, either before starting the trip, or later on..........
Call it 20 Quick Ideas
1. Have a separate bank account for your trip that exists ONLY for deposits
or for withdrawls that are trip connected. The tougher it is to access
your trip money, the less likely you are to spend it on other things.
2. Stop eating out, period. Whether you're in school or at work, bring stuff
from home.
3. Stop drinking out. Buy a six pack and invite your friends to your house.
4. Likewise, skip movie theaters. Rent instead.
5. Stop buying newspapers, magazines, books. Start going to your public
library instead.
6. Don't buy any new movies or music; your house is probably full of stuff
you already own and never watch or listen to.
7. Likewise, no new clothes unless it's something you absolutely have to
own, and even then, find a thrift store.
8. Learn to food shop intelligently; most folks have no idea how to do this.
Use coupons or look for specials. Buy stuff in bulk and make big dishes
like soups or chilis that will last you several days. Buy larger sized stuff
that'll last for weeks; it's crazy to buy tiny things of laundry detergent,
pints of milk, etc.
9. Stop buying soda and bottled water. One is unhealthy, the other is a pure
rip off.
10. If you drink or smoke, try to cut way back. Wean yourself off designer
beer and start rolling your own smokes.
And once you're out there on the Trail:
1. Don't food shop on an empty stomach. It leads to ridiculous impulse
purchases.
2. Make a list BEFORE you go shopping. You're less likely to forget anything;
more important, it'll get you out of the market quicker, leading to less
impulse buying of stuff you don't really need.
3. If you're staying at a hostel with a kitchen, but your food and cook there.
You'll eat better, and for less. Consider making a communal meal with
other hikers.......for five or six bucks apiece, you'll eat like kings.
4. Plan your town meals well. Maybe you can skip lunch or eat a real light
one if you know you're gonna have an enormous dinner. If you skip just
one restaurant meal in every one of your major town stops, you'll save
hundreds of dollars.
5. Plan your town/resupply stops wisely. If possible, get to town in early or
mid-morning. Do your town stuff (shopping, a meal, etc). and then GET
OUT and stay in the woods. This will save you paying for lodging and at
least one or two town meals, never mind "impulse" town purchases like
beer, movies, etc. You can't spend money in the middle of the woods.
6. Be sure you're happy with your gear before you leave, i.e. test it, hike
with it, etc. Some folks spend hundreds, if not thousands of dollars re-
placing gear they shouldn't have started with in the first place.
7. Plan your lodging BEFORE you get to town. If you pre-plan, you can share
a motel room with two or three other hikers and stay quite inexpensively.
8. Just about everything costs more up North. Save at least 60% of your
budget for North of Virginia.
9. Whatever you end up with for your planned budget, add at least 15% for
an emergency fund. You'll almost certainly end up needing it.
10. Don't start too early in the season. Most folks that do so end up
spending a lot of extra time in towns because of poor weather; in the
process, they stay in places they hadn't originally planned on, and they
stay longer. You can save several hundred dollars by starting in early
or mid-April where you'll likely encounter much better weather and will be
less tempted to spend so much time in town.
Ansd that's a quick twenty ideas......Excellent list Jack, and worth reposting. As far as eating out goes, how do the AAs put it?, I am a fast food and Tim Horton's junky. I have been sober for three days. Speaking of beer and alcohol, I good trick for borderline alcholics and people on a budget is to only drink what you brew. I used to have a big kit but sold it. Now I just use two small 1 gallon jugs and I find its way more fun.
On that subject, silly idea really, but it might be fun to brew as you hike. Some mead recipes can be brewed up pretty fast, like 7-14 days. It ends up a bit on the sweet side, but it is doable. Also it is possible to keep adding more water and honey on the fly, so you could make it more or less continuous, albeit rather yeasty if you don't let it settle a night or two. Anyhow, just a thought, but if you didn't mind carrying an extra 1 or 2 or 3 litres you could have a glass or two of mead every night or two, or a larger quantity once a week. Now if we could only rig up a mobile still, we might solve the fuel problem. :)
Appalachian Tater
11-28-2007, 17:30
Rather than creating your own definition why don't we use the dictionary's
Main Entry:La·ti·no Pronunciation: \lə-ˈtē-(ˌ)nō\ Function:noun Inflected Form(s):plural La·ti·nos Etymology:American Spanish, probably short for latinoamericano Latin AmericanDate:1946 1 : a native or inhabitant of Latin (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/latin) America 2 : a person of Latin-American origin living in the United States
Which doesn't mention color or race! I wasn't creating a definition, I merely pointed out that skin color or religion or national origin or "race" has nothing to do with whether or not someone is "Latino".
Remember, there are plenty of Cubans of Chinese descent as well as many Japanese in Peru and Brazil and they are Latino. Plus you have people as dark and light-skinned as you have ever seen, pure "Indians", and every conceivable color and mix in between. You even have the descendants of Confederate soldiers in Brazil.
Here's a pretty good usage discussion:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hispanic
Usage Note: Though often used interchangeably in American English, Hispanic and Latino are not identical terms, and in certain contexts the choice between them can be significant. Hispanic, from the Latin word for "Spain," has the broader reference, potentially encompassing all Spanish-speaking peoples in both hemispheres and emphasizing the common denominator of language among communities that sometimes have little else in common. Latino—which in Spanish means "Latin" but which as an English word is probably a shortening of the Spanish word latinoamericano—refers more exclusively to persons or communities of Latin American origin. Of the two, only Hispanic can be used in referring to Spain and its history and culture; a native of Spain residing in the United States is a Hispanic, not a Latino, and one cannot substitute Latino in the phrase the Hispanic influence on native Mexican cultures without garbling the meaning. In practice, however, this distinction is of little significance when referring to residents of the United States, most of whom are of Latin American origin and can theoretically be called by either word. · A more important distinction concerns the sociopolitical rift that has opened between Latino and Hispanic in American usage. For a certain segment of the Spanish-speaking population, Latino is a term of ethnic pride and Hispanic a label that borders on the offensive. According to this view, Hispanic lacks the authenticity and cultural resonance of Latino, with its Spanish sound and its ability to show the feminine form Latina when used of women. Furthermore, Hispanic—the term used by the U.S. Census Bureau and other government agencies—is said to bear the stamp of an Anglo establishment far removed from the concerns of the Spanish-speaking community. While these views are strongly held by some, they are by no means universal, and the division in usage seems as related to geography as it is to politics, with Latino widely preferred in California and Hispanic the more usual term in Florida and Texas. Even in these regions, however, usage is often mixed, and it is not uncommon to find both terms used by the same writer or speaker. See Usage Note at Chicano (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/%20Chicano).
On the more practical side, if you were to spend one afternoon a week at a hangout for some music and beer and food, in moderation, what would be a good budget for just that, and what are the best places on the trail for doing this on a frugal budget. Everything in moderation they say, including moderation.
Also, are there any good coffee houses with live entertainment?
What would be a good budget for a few hours there once a week?
doggiebag
11-28-2007, 17:36
Jak
I'll say Duncannon, PA was filled with good memories (Doyle Hotel) the food was great and the folks were wonderful - good prices as well.
Lone Wolf
11-28-2007, 17:36
Also, are there any good coffee houses with live entertainment?
What would be a good budget for a few hours there once a week?
Dot's has a jukebox and karaoke on thursdays
Also, are there any good coffee houses with live entertainment?
and do any have signs that read: Welcome Broke Stinky Hikers
If it was me (I've sort of stolen the thread anyways), I might now budget something like $0.50 per mile for food and stuff, plus an extra $20 or $30 for weekly entertainment, but only spend it where it is any good, plus a fund for return fair, contingencies, and getting restarted. I would also try to move fairly quickly if I could, like 100 days. That would mean closer to $2000 I think. Am I getting any warmer?
For myself it might be better to set out to do it in long sections. Perhaps see how far I can get in 30 days on $600, and try and do that every year or two if work and family life could accomodate it. If I was a university student I would be looking at doing it in the same fashion, which would still leave 90 days for working in the summer. Then there is always the possibility of taking a fall semester off to plant trees or something like that. Anyhow, back to self, I am limited to 1 or 2 week hikes at most, Christmas, March Break, or sometime during the summer. If my daughter continues to get interested in hiking she might do something like a thru-hike some day. Who knows, she might even take me with her.
and do any have signs that read: Welcome Broke Stinky HikersIn a manner of speaking, yes. :)
What should I budget for a place like Dot's for an hour or two of coffee and music, and whatever food they might serve? How clean should I be? What clothing is acceptable, if reasonably clean? I would be willing to shave beforehand, and I would try and keep the stench down though daily ablutions and wearing wool. :)
Jack Tarlin
11-28-2007, 18:05
You're getting in the ballpark, JAK, but "$0.50 per mile for food and stuff" is completely unrealistic for most people, esp. if by "stuff" you're including the cost of replacement gear, first aid and health related products, postage, phone calls, etc.
If a speedy hiker is covering 100 miles per week, this means they have only fifty dollars per week for "food and stuff". Assuming they go thru five dollars a day for food (and most people spend far more) this leaves one with fifteen dollars for everything else that week.......lodging, restaurant meals, laundry, gear replacement, postage, you name it.
On your "$0.50 per mile for food and stuff" budget, after your food expenses, you'll have around $2.15 a day for EVERYTHING else. And that's asuming you can stick to a five bucks per day food budget, which you can't realistically expect to do.
Lotsa luck if anyone wants to give this a shot, but they're gonna be hating life.
$2.15 doesn't go very far these days; I just spent more than that on a cup of coffee and a newspaper.
The prices of everything are going up. It's not gonna get any better by spring of '08. I'm sure prices will have gone up even more by then. When I first started coming to WB in '03, it was said that a thru hike could be done, if one was careful on $2000 dollars. Five years later, that number would be real tough to keep to. Doing a hike for $1500 would be impossible for me. I wouldn't even attempt to do a thru on such a small amount of money. But I sure would have fun getting as far as I could.............
If I could do a thru hike, I'd want as much $$$ as I could get my hands on. $1000 a month would be a nice start.
Appalachian Tater
11-28-2007, 19:04
You're getting in the ballpark, JAK, but "$0.50 per mile for food and stuff" is completely unrealistic for most people, esp. if by "stuff" you're including the cost of replacement gear, first aid and health related products, postage, phone calls, etc.
If a speedy hiker is covering 100 miles per week, this means they have only fifty dollars per week for "food and stuff". Assuming they go thru five dollars a day for food (and most people spend far more) this leaves one with fifteen dollars for everything else that week.......lodging, restaurant meals, laundry, gear replacement, postage, you name it.
On your "$0.50 per mile for food and stuff" budget, after your food expenses, you'll have around $2.15 a day for EVERYTHING else. And that's asuming you can stick to a five bucks per day food budget, which you can't realistically expect to do.
Lotsa luck if anyone wants to give this a shot, but they're gonna be hating life.
$2.15 doesn't go very far these days; I just spent more than that on a cup of coffee and a newspaper.
The Sunday Times is $4.00.
Jack Tarlin
11-28-2007, 19:11
Where I live it's five.
Appalachian Tater
11-28-2007, 19:16
Where I live it's five.
Well, it's free online, and you don't care about the ads anyway. It's also free in the trash chute room by the time I wake up on Sunday. Also, I can always pick up yesterday's WSJ from the doorman--half the people who subscribe don't pick it up and they don't bother to give people the one with their name on it so if you ask, you get!
Jack Tarlin
11-28-2007, 19:22
How nice for you, but not all of us have those options.
For example, no trash chute room where I live. Just trash. And no doorman either.
Hell, I'm just grateful there's a door! :D
My cup of ice coffee cost me $2.19, so that puts you at $7.19 Jack.:D
Kirby
Jack Tarlin
11-28-2007, 20:46
Who says I was talking about the Sunday Times, Kirby?
I said I JUST spent money on coffee and a paper. I.e. TODAY.
It's Wednesday, son. The paper doesn't cost five bucks on Wednesday.
Some of you guys are trying to be too smart for your own good. :D
I will be sure to remind you on sunday.:D
Kirby
Montego:
If you look at the very first pages of this thread, you'll see that all sorts of people were offering suggestions and advice to Rob, including doing a Search on this website (there are all sorts of threads on budgeting and financing your trip) or checking out Weathercarrot's excellent Article on budget hiking, etc. So for you to say that everyone was discouraging this guy is a little harsh; on the contrary, all sorts of folks were offering advice on how to hike inexpensively. He just didn't seem to care for some of the suggestions.
In addition to advice on hike on the cheap, they also pointed out how difficult this is to do, and why hiking on a too extreme budget makes for a difficult trip.
And this is very true.
But since you asked, here are some of the things I'd do, either before starting the trip, or later on..........
Call it 20 Quick Ideas
1. Have a separate bank account for your trip that exists ONLY for deposits
or for withdrawls that are trip connected. The tougher it is to access
your trip money, the less likely you are to spend it on other things.
2. Stop eating out, period. Whether you're in school or at work, bring stuff
from home.
3. Stop drinking out. Buy a six pack and invite your friends to your house.
4. Likewise, skip movie theaters. Rent instead.
5. Stop buying newspapers, magazines, books. Start going to your public
library instead.
6. Don't buy any new movies or music; your house is probably full of stuff
you already own and never watch or listen to.
7. Likewise, no new clothes unless it's something you absolutely have to
own, and even then, find a thrift store.
8. Learn to food shop intelligently; most folks have no idea how to do this.
Use coupons or look for specials. Buy stuff in bulk and make big dishes
like soups or chilis that will last you several days. Buy larger sized stuff
that'll last for weeks; it's crazy to buy tiny things of laundry detergent,
pints of milk, etc.
9. Stop buying soda and bottled water. One is unhealthy, the other is a pure
rip off.
10. If you drink or smoke, try to cut way back. Wean yourself off designer
beer and start rolling your own smokes.
And once you're out there on the Trail:
1. Don't food shop on an empty stomach. It leads to ridiculous impulse
purchases.
2. Make a list BEFORE you go shopping. You're less likely to forget anything;
more important, it'll get you out of the market quicker, leading to less
impulse buying of stuff you don't really need.
3. If you're staying at a hostel with a kitchen, but your food and cook there.
You'll eat better, and for less. Consider making a communal meal with
other hikers.......for five or six bucks apiece, you'll eat like kings.
4. Plan your town meals well. Maybe you can skip lunch or eat a real light
one if you know you're gonna have an enormous dinner. If you skip just
one restaurant meal in every one of your major town stops, you'll save
hundreds of dollars.
5. Plan your town/resupply stops wisely. If possible, get to town in early or
mid-morning. Do your town stuff (shopping, a meal, etc). and then GET
OUT and stay in the woods. This will save you paying for lodging and at
least one or two town meals, never mind "impulse" town purchases like
beer, movies, etc. You can't spend money in the middle of the woods.
6. Be sure you're happy with your gear before you leave, i.e. test it, hike
with it, etc. Some folks spend hundreds, if not thousands of dollars re-
placing gear they shouldn't have started with in the first place.
7. Plan your lodging BEFORE you get to town. If you pre-plan, you can share
a motel room with two or three other hikers and stay quite inexpensively.
8. Just about everything costs more up North. Save at least 60% of your
budget for North of Virginia.
9. Whatever you end up with for your planned budget, add at least 15% for
an emergency fund. You'll almost certainly end up needing it.
10. Don't start too early in the season. Most folks that do so end up
spending a lot of extra time in towns because of poor weather; in the
process, they stay in places they hadn't originally planned on, and they
stay longer. You can save several hundred dollars by starting in early
or mid-April where you'll likely encounter much better weather and will be
less tempted to spend so much time in town.
Ansd that's a quick twenty ideas......
My thoughts exactly, Jack. How did you know?
Weary:)
And print out Jack's resupply article. I'm pretty sure it'll help, somehow.
canerunner
11-29-2007, 09:21
My mother was Scottish, grew up there during the depression and the war.
That left an impression.
I would have to say we were spoiled though, by any comparison.
But she still managed to leave an impression.
And so many things in todays world just seem wrong, even when I do them myself.
I grew up in a "middle class" home, and I can relate very closely to what you're saying Jack. Both of my folks were born into frugal families right at the end of WW I (not WWII), and lived through the depression and the (as they called it) Second War. Being of Scottish and Irish descent, they were taught to be frugal early in their lives, and the depression made them even more frugal.
My dad was fortunate to have a good job, but due to some issues related to a failed business, we sometimes had to live through a week (in the late 60's) on $20 for a family of four. That was living frugally, even for the 60's!
I believe that given the right incentive, and a willingness to avoid excessive spending, one can probably go a lot further on a lot less money than the "conventional wisdom" predicts. The reality is that most of us are way too embedded in the culture of comfort that modern Americans live in. None of us wants to go hungry (me included), but do we really need to eat as much junk food, or drink as much beer, as we seem to want to? I think not.
There is room for a frugal, yet healthy, approach to hiking the trail. It's not for all, but very right for some.
Nella Fantasia (Gabriel's Oboe)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCrd2Ab1Hak
In my fantasy I see a just world,
Where everyone lives in peace and honesty.
I dream of souls that are always free
Like the clouds that float
Full of humanity in the depths of the soul.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1czsC7hmVBo
In my fantasy I see a bright world
Where each night there is less darkness.
I dream of spirits that are always free,
Like the clouds that float
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDUbUHXdqq0
In my fantasy exists a warm wind,
That blows into the city, like a friend.
I dream of souls that are always free,
Like the clouds that float
Full of humanity in the depths of the soul.
Gray Blazer
11-30-2007, 13:04
Wow, you guys are gonna let this thing rest? OK, my opinion. If you just hang out on WB, it seems there are 2 main kinds of thru-hikers......The first group would be the gonna join the this years orgy, drink-a-thon, relive my youth by joining this years thru-hikers marathon, I'm an expert and I have an opinion on everything and lots of money to burn...and....the second type...people who enjoy getting outdoors and live vicariously through the reports and photos on WB (not to mention getting info from the 1st and 2nd types) and may or may not have more than $1500 bucks to blow on a thru-hike. One size does not fit all. Rob belongs to the 2nd group. You can flame me now because I have just put on my flame-retardant suit.
Johnny Thunder
11-30-2007, 13:15
I agree with Gray Blazer that use of the word "Bump" should supercede the ten letter/symbol minimum on WhiteBlaze posting.
referring to Jack's 20 quck ideas:
I do not think a person is going to become a different person just because they are hiking. If you spend freely at home, you are not going to be able to be thrifty, just because you are hiking. I like the way he seperated the before, the trail and after the trail tips. The before tips are kinda like a "living " shakedown.
Gray Blazer
11-30-2007, 13:44
I agree with Gray Blazer that use of the word "Bump" should supercede the ten letter/symbol minimum on WhiteBlaze posting.
Hunh? Over my head. Thanks for the validation, though.
referring to Jack's 20 quick ideas:
I do not think a person is going to become a different person just because they are hiking. If you spend freely at home, you are not going to be able to be thrifty, just because you are hiking. I like the way he seperated the before, the trail and after the trail tips. The before tips are kinda like a "living " shakedown.I broke down and had a small Tim's tea with milk and sugar today. $1.09. Technically I was having breakfast with the family, as we had a crisis on the kitchen floor and so my wife decided to have breakfast at Tim's before dropping Margaret at school, and so this might count as my weekly dinner out with family, where I said I would just have a large salad and one beer, as long as I don't eat out tonight. It's a slippery slope though. The slide has begun. Wonder how Rob is doing.
CoyoteWhips
11-30-2007, 13:54
referring to Jack's 20 quck ideas:
I do not think a person is going to become a different person just because they are hiking.
But, isn't that one of the common reasons to hike? Does anybody complete a thru without becoming a different person?
referring to Jack's 20 quck ideas:
I do not think a person is going to become a different person just because they are hiking. If you spend freely at home, you are not going to be able to be thrifty, just because you are hiking. I like the way he seperated the before, the trail and after the trail tips. The before tips are kinda like a "living " shakedown.
I completely agree. A couple of years ago, on another list, I made up a questionnaire to answer in order to figure out how much your hike would probably cost. Questions were things like:
"I buy my clothes at:
1) Custom-tailored all the way
2) Boutiques
3) Nordstroms/Macy's/etc.
4) Wal-Mart
5) Thrift stores
6) Spend money on clothes? You must be joking. I can pick discarded stuff for free."
I would have to agree with CoyoteWhips on that also. Depends on what sort of personal changes you are looking for, or are forced upon you. If you set out to become more frugal you might achieve that, despite the temptations. However if your ambition is to gain health, or become more one with nature, or some other goal, then you might achieve that instead, or perhaps something else unintended. Now I am somewhat biased on this, prejudiced in fact since I have not experienced the AT, but I think if you set out to be frugal you might also stand a chance of gaining health and virtue in a number of other areas also, whereas if you choose not to be frugal, you might fail in many other areas also. Anyhow, I'm one to talk, only making it 4 days without my Tim's. I'll keep going though, for what it's worth.
Marta,
Yea, and real frugal people take pride in how little things cost. Its a running joke in our family, my wife and daughters for years have shopped at thrift stores, and bought really nice dresses to wear to proms, and weddings for little of nothing. A couple of years ago my sister-in-law's daughter got married, and had a nice weeding. The mother of the bride wore a $17 thrift store special, and looked damn good in it.
I think perhaps if there was a more frugal time in your early life, which you enjoyed but since strayed from, then you might have a better chance to reverting back to it. Also, if you are still young, and learning to live more independantly and taking pride in that, then you might be of a mindset to attempt a more frugal thru-hike, even if your current life is less frugal. Those might be two exceptions that prove the rule. There might be others.
Marta,
Yea, and real frugal people take pride in how little things cost. Its a running joke in our family, my wife and daughters for years have shopped at thrift stores, and bought really nice dresses to wear to proms, and weddings for little of nothing. A couple of years ago my sister-in-law's daughter got married, and had a nice weeding. The mother of the bride wore a $17 thrift store special, and looked damn good in it.
There are several extremely frugal people in my family. During his first semester at college, my youngest son spent around $20.50 the whole semester. He's a senior now, and has loosened his the grip on his wallet very slightly, but not much. He went wild and bought a new pair of jeans recently, at a thrift store, for $3. He does eat a lot (he's quite tall and plays Ultimate Frisbee), so he has analyzed the school's cafeteria menu to get the greatest calories/dollar ratio. His diet is appalling, but he seems healthy enough.
I believe he could pull off a $1500 thru.
But he's not interested in engaging in such a money-wasting activity.:D
4eyedbuzzard
11-30-2007, 14:59
But he's not interested in engaging in such a money-wasting activity.:D
It's fascinating that budget concerns should be so important in the undertaking of a six month long vacation.:-?
One could take a hike more in line with their ability to afford such a luxury.;)
It's fascinating that budget concerns should be so important in the undertaking of a six month long vacation.:-?
One could take a hike more in line with their ability to afford such a luxury.;)That is a good point. But that sort of reasoning applies more to someone older, like myself perhaps. I think we are still looking at this too muchg from our own perspective, myself included, rather than from the original posters perspective. For someone younger, just finishing college say, who doesn't even know what vacation is because they haven't really started their careers yet, then they might see a 3-4 month thru-hike (such a person would not take 6 months) as an opportunity do do something significant before they get themselves bogged down in the rat-race. Such a person might want to spend alot on such a venture, or they might set out to do it on a more frugal basis, out of neccessity or otherwise.
They say youth is wasted on the young. There are exceptions to those rules.
Sometimes youth is wasted on the old.
Sometimes I think sobriety is wasted on someone like myself.
CoyoteWhips
11-30-2007, 15:53
It's interesting, the various reactions to thrift. Is it a virtue in itself? Does the money you spend measure your consumption? Here I have the romantic image of a tight hiking budget, not because of the things it denies, but because of the experiences it encourages. Time spent in town spending money is time you're not on the trail.
If you only spend your money on the best your hike has to offer, what are you spending it on and how much do you need to spend?
As far as I'm concerned, a six month traveling festival is just as valid a reason to hike as a 2,000 mile spiritual wilderness pilgrimage.
Just, probably, the spiritual thing is cheaper.
Johnny Thunder
11-30-2007, 16:00
..........
Who is more or less likely to leave garbage or a mess at a shelter or on the trail.A conservative hiker or a spend thrift one.My
I agree with CoyoteWhips. There are many valid ways to walk 2000 miles. You can do it at various speeds, various budgets, and even varying degrees of sobriety while gaining benefits without causing much harm to yourself or to others.
As for pitdogs question, I don't think you can answer such a question fairly.
On the other hand, there are many ways to answer it unfairly, all too common.
Frugality is a virtue.
The point of the trail, is to be at one with the wilderness.I did my first thru hike on 2225 dollars,and this was in 1997.I have been section hiking since 2003,and I spend more on sec hiking.This year I will be doing a thru hike 3000;however,I will try to spend less than my first thru hike.I wish I had the brains to do it with out any of my own moneys.I met a guy named mouse that thru hiked on 800 dollars.
Well done pitdog. Well, so far I have spent $1.09 and covered 0 miles, and so my cost per mile has been infinite. Apologies to anyone I have offended in this thread. Hats off to all those that have gone before, whatever their budget, or distance.
lonehiker
11-30-2007, 17:58
Well done pitdog. Well, so far I have spent $1.09 and covered 0 miles, and so my cost per mile has been infinite. Apologies to anyone I have offended in this thread. Hats off to all those that have gone before, whatever their budget, or distance.
Why is frugality a virtue?
lonehiker
11-30-2007, 17:58
I agree with CoyoteWhips. There are many valid ways to walk 2000 miles. You can do it at various speeds, various budgets, and even varying degrees of sobriety while gaining benefits without causing much harm to yourself or to others.
As for pitdogs question, I don't think you can answer such a question fairly.
On the other hand, there are many ways to answer it unfairly, all too common.
Frugality is a virtue.
Why is frugality a virtue?
4eyedbuzzard
11-30-2007, 18:14
Why is frugality a virtue?
So poor people can feel superior to richer ones.
Spirit Walker
11-30-2007, 18:36
It's fascinating that budget concerns should be so important in the undertaking of a six month long vacation.:-?
One could take a hike more in line with their ability to afford such a luxury.;)
A thruhike of the AT is much more than a "six month vacation".
For some of us, long distance hiking is not a luxury, but a necessity.
Why is frugality a virtue?
Frugality is a virtue because:
1) It implies that one is controlling one's spending, rather than the other way around
2) It implies that one leaves a lighter footprint on the earth
3) It implies that one can differentiate between wants and needs, and one sees that needs are much fewer than the consumer society would lead us to believe
4) Specifically for the purposes of most Whiteblazers, frugality would allow one to save enough money to go hiking, and to have enough money to hike without running out of money.
Can frugality become an obsession and a sickness? Sure. But I'm guessing that most people who actually pull their financial affairs together enough to thru-hike have to do SOMETHING that would classify them as unusually frugal. There are a few multi-millionaires wandering the AT, who have money to burn and are not giving up any income-earning opportunities while they hike, but there are not all that many. Most hikers are middle-class to poor and have to save, sell, and economize, and sacrifice "normal" material well-being to hike. It might be as piffling a "sacrifice" as having a car that's $10,000 cheaper than their co-workers or neighbors have, so they can take time off work and hike.
How many times does the average thru-hiker have people say to them, "You're so lucky because I couldn't possibly afford to do what you're doing." Luck usually has nothing to do with it. It was planning. Again, in the most piffling case, it was buying the cheap car instead of being bamboozled into getting what everyone else has.
Frugality is a sliding scale. For some people, hiking (even for the most slackpacking/motel-staying/well-fed AT hiker) instead of, say, taking a cruise or going on an extended golfing vacation, is an act of frugality.:D
For me, frugality is a virtue because it implies conscious control over one's actions, and that's (to me) almost always a good thing.
4eyedbuzzard
11-30-2007, 19:02
That is a good point. But that sort of reasoning applies more to someone older, like myself perhaps. I think we are still looking at this too muchg from our own perspective, myself included, rather than from the original posters perspective. For someone younger, just finishing college say, who doesn't even know what vacation is because they haven't really started their careers yet, then they might see a 3-4 month thru-hike (such a person would not take 6 months) as an opportunity do do something significant before they get themselves bogged down in the rat-race. Such a person might want to spend alot on such a venture, or they might set out to do it on a more frugal basis, out of neccessity or otherwise.
One might conversely argue that joining and succeeding enough in the rat race(if even for just a year) to better fund a thru-hike is more significant than getting bogged down in the pursuit of a thru-hike to the exclusion of all else.
Don't get me wrong, thru-hiking is wonderful experience if you can do it, but both the necessity of doing so and its "significance" tend to be greatly exaggerated by many. I will be going in 2010, but having been on the frugal budget plan once in '76 as a youngster(and leaving the trail in Virginia), this time I'm going more on the "L Wolf, $6K, 6 month plan". I like a real roof over my head(I've been told shelters suck) sometimes, and Mrs. Buzzard will join me from time to time in trail towns - you know, to avoid the pink blazing temptation.;) I may even slack pack in the Whites and sleep at home - because I can! :eek:
superman
11-30-2007, 19:09
A wise man once said :)
"If thru-hiking isn't the most important thing in your life at the time
you are doing it, then stop doing it and go do what is." --Wingfoot
4eyedbuzzard
11-30-2007, 19:10
A thruhike of the AT is much more than a "six month vacation".
For some of us, long distance hiking is not a luxury, but a necessity.
Food and shelter are life's necessities. EVERYTHING else is a choice. In the case of a thru-hike, unless you spin it into a profit making book or movie to put food on the table, it is a non-productive recreational activity - and pretty much the definition of a vacation.
That you consider it a necessity, is simply a choice you make.
smokymtnsteve
11-30-2007, 19:18
or come to Fbks next spring,,,help me build another cabin on the property. stay in that cabin till the next spring .. pay no rent ..work in FBKS and then hike the next spring and come back to Alaska and pick up your PFD check.:D
have a real adventure!;)
4eyedbuzzard
11-30-2007, 19:29
A wise man once said :)
"If thru-hiking isn't the most important thing in your life at the time
you are doing it, then stop doing it and go do what is." --Wingfoot
The most important things in my life are my family, friends, and to a lesser degree my career. And they all will still be more important than thru-hiking while I do it. Should I therefore not thru-hike? By choosing to thru-hike, I'll be sacrificing both time with family and also spending quite a bit more than the cost of a hike in lost income for a rather selfish pursuit. But life is all about managing choices and competing interests, not simply being of single purpose. With all due respect for his hiking ability, I wouldn't look to Dan Bruce for philosophical or life advice.
Food and shelter are life's necessities. EVERYTHING else is a choice. In the case of a thru-hike, unless you spin it into a profit making book or movie to put food on the table, it is a non-productive recreational activity - and pretty much the definition of a vacation.
That you consider it a necessity, is simply a choice you make.
On a purely biological level...sure, you are right.
I'd like to think to live a fulfilled life, more is neccessary than just eating, reproducing and surviving. Otherwise we may as well just be ameoba.
But, we are now getting philosophical. Hard to prove one opinion right or wrong..because it is jsut an opinion and not fact.
Why is frugality a virtue?
Frugality tends to reduce one's impact on the earth resources. But it also helps practitioners to do interesting things that otherwise would only be available to the prosperous.
When a magazine once gave me a plaque for something I had done, one of my wealthier outdoor buddies was quoted as saying "his equipment is mostly Army surplus."
Well, some wasn't. Some were just yesterdays fads. But it makes no difference. I was able to participate in a lot of adventures, despite having a low paying job, a wife, three kids and a junk house to rebuild, because I was frugal in my selections of gear, house rebuilding needs, and transportation.
Weary
The most important things in my life are my family, friends, and to a lesser degree my career. And they all will still be more important than thru-hiking while I do it. Should I therefore not thru-hike?
I am not saying this to be sarcastic, but it is really hard to answer that question until you have finished your thru-hike. The answer is different for everyone who has finished a thru-hike. Your answer will be known then as well.
Cheers.
The most important things in my life are my family, friends, and to a lesser degree my career. And they all will still be more important than thru-hiking while I do it. Should I therefore not thru-hike? By choosing to thru-hike, I'll be sacrificing both time with family and also spending quite a bit more than the cost of a hike in lost income for a rather selfish pursuit. But life is all about managing choices and competing interests, not simply being of single purpose. With all due respect for his hiking ability, I wouldn't look to Dan Bruce for philosophical or life advice.
Dan is far wiser than you think. And, incidentally, very frugal. He carved out a life in which his activities will still be important decades from now. That is very rare. As some James once said. I forget which, "the greatest use of a life is to spend it for things that will out last it."
Well. that may not be not entirely accurate, but that is what he meant.
Weary
Dawningman
12-01-2007, 00:44
feasability of a thru-hike with just over 1500 in the pocket?
You would have to be the king of stealth and a hermit, at only $8.33 a day if you took 6 months. At taking only 5 months you could spend $10 a day.... $3000 would be better and still not much
or come to Fbks next spring,,,help me build another cabin on the property. stay in that cabin till the next spring .. pay no rent ..work in FBKS and then hike the next spring and come back to Alaska and pick up your PFD check.:D
have a real adventure!;)Can you please tell me more about this lifestyle and how you do it? Sounds like an interesting possibility.
turtle fast
12-01-2007, 01:16
From reading all of these posts we must recognize too though that their is certainly a difference from being frugal and budget concious on the hike to a pan handling nussance. We in the hiking community have a responsibility to give a good impression to the communities we pass through for others that will come behind us. We have to guard our good will.....not to say that we cannot enact charity; but to defend our reputations as responsible hikers so future generations may expierence trail hospitality.
From reading all of these posts we must recognize too though that their is certainly a difference from being frugal and budget concious on the hike to a pan handling nussance. We in the hiking community have a responsibility to give a good impression to the communities we pass through for others that will come behind us. We have to guard our good will.....not to say that we cannot enact charity; but to defend our reputations as responsible hikers so future generations may expierence trail hospitality.Some would argue that we have just as much responsibility, perhaps even more, to be frugal, in order to leave a good impression and cause less harm. Some would argue that THAT is the reputation that we should have been building all along. Perhaps by overspending we haven't been panhandling nuisances, but we have been nuisances just the same, perhaps even worse. Frugality is a virtue. Let us not pretend that it isn't.
So poor people can feel superior to richer ones.Hey. We already are superior.
Seriously though, poor people do not have the market cornered on frugality or other virtues, even meekness.
It just helps. Maybe not myself, but most of us, I think. ;)
4eyedbuzzard
12-01-2007, 11:24
Hey. We already are superior.
Seriously though, poor people do not have the market cornered on frugality or other virtues, even meekness.
It just helps. Maybe not myself, but most of us, I think. ;)
I figured my initial comment was over the top enough that everyone would take it as the sarcasm it was. If not, I apologize, I'll use a suitable emoticon next time. Some of the most frugal people I know are wealthy, that's how they got that way. Some of the least frugal are poor, that's how they stay that way.
Frugal: Using a tea bag twice.
Cheap: Giving your guest that second cup.:D
4eyedbuzzard
12-01-2007, 11:35
Some would argue that we have just as much responsibility, perhaps even more, to be frugal, in order to leave a good impression and cause less harm. Some would argue that THAT is the reputation that we should have been building all along. Perhaps by overspending we haven't been panhandling nuisances, but we have been nuisances just the same, perhaps even worse. Frugality is a virtue. Let us not pretend that it isn't.
It's a double edge sword, like most situations of this type. Yeah, some of the overspending may result in party or trash nuisances. But I doubt the merchants along the trail want the hikers to be particularly frugal while shopping in their grocery stores, laundromats, restaurants, motels, hostels, outfitter, and even [gasp] liquor stores. Taken to the extreme, hikers resuppling only at mail-drops would seriously impact many businesses. The impact of hikers on trail towns is generally(not always or by all) seen as a net positive especially down south before the thru-hiker ranks thin. Section hikers and any others who don't spend and/or resupply on the local economy have less impact.
4eyedbuzzard
12-01-2007, 11:49
...We in the hiking community have a responsibility to give a good impression to the communities we pass through for others that will come behind us. We have to guard our good will.....not to say that we cannot enact charity; but to defend our reputations as responsible hikers so future generations may expierence trail hospitality.
That was pretty much the mantra back in the 60's and 70's. But somewhere along the way, especially relating to thru-hikes starting in the spring, it became as some say, a travelling carnival atmosphere. And temper my perception with the fact that I haven't hiked down south since '76 when there were no where near the numbers there are today, so I have no first hand knowledge.
But by and large hikers aren't as respectful or courteous or knowledgable or prepared as they once were. Nor are golfers. Seems more to be a reflection of society in general rather than just a hiker phenomena.
I figured my initial comment was over the top enough that everyone would take it as the sarcasm it was. If not, I apologize, I'll use a suitable emoticon next time. Some of the most frugal people I know are wealthy, that's how they got that way. Some of the least frugal are poor, that's how they stay that way.
Frugal: Using a tea bag twice.
Cheap: Giving your guest that second cup.:DI am not sure if I caught the sarcasm in your initial comment, but I did catch the humour. In retrospect there was some sarcasm there, but also some wonderful and very appropriate irony. Great stuff. Keep it coming.
4eyedbuzzard
12-01-2007, 12:12
Dan is far wiser than you think. And, incidentally, very frugal. He carved out a life in which his activities will still be important decades from now. That is very rare. As some James once said. I forget which, "the greatest use of a life is to spend it for things that will out last it."
Well. that may not be not entirely accurate, but that is what he meant.
Weary
I don't dismiss Dan's legacy in the trail and environmental political arenas, it's just that as another wise man once said, "... he was terribly mistaken about how best to promulgate his views. Honest debate is always constructive." Remember the author of that quote? ;)
It's a double edge sword, like most situations of this type. Yeah, some of the overspending may result in party or trash nuisances. But I doubt the merchants along the trail want the hikers to be particularly frugal while shopping in their grocery stores, laundromats, restaurants, motels, hostels, outfitter, and even [gasp] liquor stores. Taken to the extreme, hikers resuppling only at mail-drops would seriously impact many businesses. The impact of hikers on trail towns is generally(not always or by all) seen as a net positive especially down south before the thru-hiker ranks thin. Section hikers and any others who don't spend and/or resupply on the local economy have less impact.Good point. But then some people that live along the trail and use the trail might consider many of those merchants to be nuisance, and those that wants to 'overdevelop' the trail, or at least 'overdevelop' properties along the trail, especially developments that imped access to the trail, but also some developments on the trail itself. I suppose some might consider all people a nuisance, and even consider the trail itself to be a nuisance. It's best if we all learn to get along, but it is very difficult to stop 'overdevelopment', which is the greatest nuisance, I think. Problem is, I am not sure how to define 'overdevelopment'. I suppose it is any development that I am not personally benefiting from. ;)
But by and large hikers aren't as respectful or courteous or knowledgable or prepared as they once were. Nor are golfers. Seems more to be a reflection of society in general rather than just a hiker phenomena.I would agree. I think it is partly for lack of frugality. I think since about 1980 we have swung too far in overemphasizing the dogma of the mighty dollar, even to the point of revising our history, and even our religions. There was a time when conservatism meant conserving old traditional ways and means and values, towards the common good of all, rather than revising them to suit our own short term personal interests and ambitions. I suspect these things go in cycles.
Bear in mind, when I am criticizing 'them', I am really criticizing myself as much as anyone else of my generation. I tend to hold those of my father's and grandfather's generation, those born before say 1930, in higher esteem. I am sure there were more than a few scoundrels. As to the next generation I tend to hold out more hope, though no doubt there will be scoundrels amongst those also.
atraildreamer
12-01-2007, 13:07
feasability of a thru-hike with just over 1500 in the pocket?
Let's see :-? ...Ramen Noodles packs...8 for a dollar at PriceRite..times $1500= 12,000 packages. :eek: Should be enough food for the trip. :rolleyes::banana
Sissygirl
12-01-2007, 13:22
Awesome quote!
....I tend to hold those of my father's and grandfather's generation, those born before say 1930, in higher esteem. I am sure there were more than a few scoundrels. .....
Wow, I made the break by just seven months. However, I can attest to the prevalence of scoundrels. Some think I'm a scoundrel, locking up land. Leaving no place for young people to build homes.
And of course they are right. Everything that makes a town more pleasant and liveable, attracts wealthy people, who drive up land prices, essentially driving prices higher than the sons and daughters of commercial fishermen, clam diggers, and working commuters alike can afford to pay.
Except for a few wealthy conclaves, Phippsburg 40 years ago was considered the pits of this part of Maine. Now real estate agents advertise Phippsburg house lots as "near hiking trails and 4,000 acres of protected land."
I remember people marveling when the first house in our town sold for $100,000. Now $500,000 houses are common. And more than a few sell for a million or more. BTW. That $100,000 house is now on the market for $1.6 million.
Weary
Mad Hatter 08
12-01-2007, 13:45
here is an idea for saving extra money to take. get yourself a capital one or other brand prepaid debit/credit card. once you recieve it start direct deposit on it for a portion of your paycheck, then put the card away (i/e in your pack) somewhere you won't be tempted to pull it out an use it. this way each week a little goes onto the card and you save it up until your trip. you could also change your w-2 tax form at your job and have them take out extra money in taxes which will make for a fatter tax return. I was averaging a return of 800 a year until I added 20 addition withdrawl on my taxes last year i recieved almost 2000. And if you have the money taken with your weekly/biweekly tax withdrawal you absolutely won't be able to touch the money.
ATRagamuffin
12-01-2007, 14:29
A few folks mentioned hiking SOBO which was my thought as well. It gives you a few more months to save up. From everything I've read, hiking SOBO is a less social experience, so there should be less peer pressure for beer/pizza/town stops.
And you all had to bring up Tim Horton's! We don't have them in Indianapolis. I always pick some up on the way home from my northern sections when I pass through Columbus OH on the way out. My favorite are the sour cream glazed. MMMMM.
A shuttler once told me he dehydrated Krispy Kreme's for the trail. I haven't tried that yet.
4eyedbuzzard
12-01-2007, 14:30
Ya know what I think - I think we've hijacked this thread. :eek:
Backing up a bit and trying to spin all this philosophical stuff into the original post, I think it's going to be really hard for someone raised in this era to be frugal enough to thru-hike on $1500. Almost none of us know how to live that frugally anymore, and if forced to, we generally don't enjoy it. I know some would say to forgo some(in this case most of) enjoyment for the sake of thru-hiking, but IMO, if it ain't fun, why bother? Like L Wolf said, for most of us it's a one time shot at a trip of a lifetime, have as much fun as possible. Even a well funded hike will present all the challenge(and more) anyone needs, why create huge financial obstacles if saving for a few more months or a year will make it more enjoyable.
But as to TRUE frugality, let's be honest, there's just nothing innately frugal about a thru-hike. Unless you're a retiree, you make a choice to not work or generate income for roughly six months, while spending money to have fun doing what you please. To me, that sounds an awful lot like a long vacation, hardly the hallmark of a frugal lifestyle. Not something most of those very frugal children of the '30's would "approve of". I can hear them now, "go take your hike for two weeks on your vacation and then get back to work!"
dessertrat
12-01-2007, 14:56
Ya know what I think - I think we've hijacked this thread. :eek:
Backing up a bit and trying to spin all this philosophical stuff into the original post, I think it's going to be really hard for someone raised in this era to be frugal enough to thru-hike on $1500.
True, most people aren't so frugal these days. When I read about what Earl Shaffer ate on his first thru-hike (which lasted 120 days), it is obvious that most of us today would have little patience with it-- mostly cornmeal mush with raisins, brown sugar, and evaporated milk mixed in, but sometimes oatmeal with the same stuff mixed in. The modern equivalent might be ramen noodles, egg noodles, spaghetti, olive oil, etc. Cheap food. Real cheap food.
How much does a big bucket/box of cornmeal cost? What about oatmeal? Rice? Beans? Pasta? It's all cheap.
Sure you can do this on $1500, and not even be hungry. But you will not be able to drink beer and eat pizza in every town you come to, nor will you be able to stay in hostels, let alone motels or hotels, along the way. That might not seem like a big deal right now, but after a few hundred miles on the trail, it may seem like a "necessity" more than a luxury, although of course it is a luxury. You may decide it sucks so much that you decide to quit. Or maybe not.
It's a double edge sword, like most situations of this type. Yeah, some of the overspending may result in party or trash nuisances. But I doubt the merchants along the trail want the hikers to be particularly frugal while shopping in their grocery stores, laundromats, restaurants, motels, hostels, outfitter, and even [gasp] liquor stores. Taken to the extreme, hikers resuppling only at mail-drops would seriously impact many businesses. The impact of hikers on trail towns is generally(not always or by all) seen as a net positive especially down south before the thru-hiker ranks thin. Section hikers and any others who don't spend and/or resupply on the local economy have less impact.
Section hikers may not resupply in trail towns, especially those out for just a week or 10 days at a time. But section hikers often spend money at motels, hostels, B&Bs, etc. before and/or after their sections. Same with restaurants. And they have some of the same needs for gear replacements along the trail as thru-hikers.
I think the notion of frugality not being a virtue was started by Keynes.
Or was it Cain?
Lone Wolf
12-02-2007, 09:24
I think the notion of frugality not being a virtue was started by Keynes.
Or was it Cain?
i think the notion of attempting a thru-hike is with less than $4000 ain't too smart.
nitewalker
12-02-2007, 09:43
older folks will find it easier to hike with less money but some of the spoiled youth will need all their extras to get by..the youth of today have shorter attention spans resulting in unfinished projects. [completed thruhike]
1500 seems out of the question unless you really attempt it and stick to your guns...i would be glad to donate some of my food if we cross paths during your thru......peace
Section hikers may not resupply in trail towns, especially those out for just a week or 10 days at a time. But section hikers often spend money at motels, hostels, B&Bs, etc. before and/or after their sections. Same with restaurants. And they have some of the same needs for gear replacements along the trail as thru-hikers.
Not to mention shuttlers. Section hikers rely on them. Which is another luxury one would have to give up if hiking on only $1500.
kayak karl
12-03-2007, 00:13
older folks will find it easier to hike with less money but some of the spoiled youth will need all their extras to get by..the youth of today have shorter attention spans resulting in unfinished projects. [completed thruhike]
1500 seems out of the question unless you really attempt it and stick to your guns...i would be glad to donate some of my food if we cross paths during your thru......peace
being an older folk, i agree. i am attempting to do hike on 2500, but for me its just a goal to meet. i would not concider it without a few K backup. i guest thats the advantage of being an OLDER FOLK:D
i think the notion of attempting a thru-hike is with less than $4000 ain't too smart.If I recall, the notion of being 20 years old wasn't too smart either, but I would do it again if I could. :)
If I recall, the notion of being 20 years old wasn't too smart either, but I would do it again if I could. :)
Yeap, super human strength, invincibility, smarter, and most of my joints hadn't been knocked out of whack yet.
If I recall, the notion of being 20 years old wasn't too smart either, but I would do it again if I could. :)
20 Yrs old. Hmmmm :-? seem to recall something about that. Probably just read about it in National Geographic or something - can't quite remember!
kayak karl
12-03-2007, 02:21
20 Yrs old. Hmmmm :-? seem to recall something about that. Probably just read about it in National Geographic or something - can't quite remember!
You remember! but it was in black and white:D
If I recall, the notion of being 20 years old wasn't too smart either, but I would do it again if I could. :)
Yehaw! Dumb as a box of rocks, and loved it.
Yeap, super human strength, invincibility, smarter, and most of my joints hadn't been knocked out of whack yet.
Plus being naughty wasn't lethal.
Rather than answering with a simple "yes" or "no", another way of answering the question of the $1500 thru hike is to express the answer in terms of your odds of making it on $1500. Because while somone may be able to do it, I think most would not. If the average hiker has a 1 chance in 5 of making it all the way I would say that a person on a low budget would have a much lower odds than that of making it. Maybe 1 chance in 25 instead of 1 chance in 5.
Panzer
Rather than answering with a simple "yes" or "no", another way of answering the question of the $1500 thru hike is to express the answer in terms of your odds of making it on $1500. If the average hiker has a 1 chance in 5 of making it all the way I would say that a person on a low budget would have a much lower odds than that of making it. Maybe 1 chance in 25 instead of 1 chance in 5.
Panzer
I think that's a great way to look at it, and sums up numerically what most people are trying to say--it's possible to succeed, but not likely.
Johnny Swank--have you got an survey respondants who quit because they ran out out money?
Five or six of the SOBOs near me in 2006 went home for that very reason.
Yes,it would be very hard to hike on 1500 especially with the current value of the american dollar.Although ,I think it could be done,but attempting this one needs to fine inexpensive food,with huge nutritionial values.Greens are needed ,to uptake proteins ,that are need to repare myos.Without proper nutrition,you will have cravings that are out of this world,especially for junk foods,with poor nutrition.Oh,by the way,you may need new boots by del. water gap.$$$
CoyoteWhips
12-03-2007, 14:08
Having decided for myself to do The Long Trail, is there anything proved by doing it on a relatively frugal budget; ten dollars a day? I'm probably not going to have to buy shoes and I'd likely survive, even with bad nutrition, for three weeks. But I can't imagine there'd be a lot of pizza and beer.
How long a hike would you have to go on to indicate a possible $1500 AT thru -- would it have to be six months?
Good question.
I think 40 days and 40 nights on $400 would be a good test.
I understand various people have done it on less. ;)
I would like to try a fortnight first, say 14 days and 14 nights on $100.
Programbo
12-10-2007, 19:21
1500 seems out of the question unless you really attempt it and stick to your guns...i would be glad to donate some of my food if we cross paths during your thru......peace
I`ll contribute like 100 Ramen noodle packets :p