View Full Version : What bag for smokies in December?
I have a 15 degree Montbell SS DH. Would I need a zero for the AT in the Smokies in Dec?
Basically if I need a zero I can't go. :( Which is ok b/c I'd like to stay alive.
I have a 15 degree Montbell SS DH. Would I need a zero for the AT in the Smokies in Dec?
Basically if I need a zero I can't go. :( Which is ok b/c I'd like to stay alive.
It all depends... There's up on the ridgeline in the Smokies, and then there's down lower. Tent camping, down lower, you should be fine with your sleeping bag. Up higher, you might be kind of cold.
But maybe not. One other thing is to plan the trip, then watch the weather.
In any case, bring lots of warm clothes, especially hats, mittens, warm socks, etc.
Tho I'm not familiar with the Smokies in Dec. I have slept out several times in a 15* bag at -10* and -12*. Need to use all your extra insulating layers and have two insulating pads, at least one should be a full length. Be sure to include a warm hat and warm,dry socks to sleep in. Down booties are an excellent investment for pushing a three-season bag into winter use and are great around camp. May not be totally comfortable, but I could always sleep most of the night.
If you need to use the shelters in the Smokies during the off season, like you do during the summer, maybe consider a silk liner or a light bivey to add about 9-10* warmth. Shelters generally sleep colder than tents. Silk liners are about $40-$50, could get a bivey for a little more. Taking a light tarp to hang in the opening of the shelter will also help with wind.
What is your hiking experience? Going solo or with a group? If you are not experienced, this may not be a good choice for a first attempt. But if you are experienced or going with others who are, then have fun! This is doable and can be enjoyable.
Chris_Asheville
12-05-2007, 15:48
MTS - I Have done quite a few winter trips in the Smokys. My best advice is written above. Plan your trip, then plan again the night before you leave. Things can change quickly up there, especially along some of the ridgelines. No matter what you think, it's gonna get damn cold up there. I've been in the shelters when the temperature was below zero and I was decked out, zero bag, extra socks, etc.. You'll survive the night, just be sure to be cold when you wake up. Currently, I think the fire ban is still in effect, which, with no fires, gets even colder..I hope that makes sense!
I would/will not be going alone. Most likely I would also be going with a friend of mine who I just went to the smokies with over Thanksgiving weekend.
We are inexperienced though. Only been on 3 trips of about 3 days each. Although the smokies over Thanksgiving weekend was mostly in snow the whole time though it wasn't deep at all.
Currently, I think the fire ban is still in effect, which, with no fires, gets even colder..I hope that makes sense!
In spite of said fire ban, when I was in the Smokies a few weeks ago, all the other groups were having big ole campfires. I'm off to the Smokies again this weekend, so I'll spy it out again.
Seriously, though, the nighttime temperature differential between the ridgeline and the lower areas can be a good 15 or 20 degrees. If you look at your map and pick campsites that are lower in elevation you'll be a lot warmer. Hike up high for the view during the day, then drop down 3000' to camp.
Marta:
It would be nice to be able to camp lower, but I'd kinda like to do the AT, which in the smokies doesn't really go much below 5,000.
Marta:
It would be nice to be able to camp lower, but I'd kinda like to do the AT, which in the smokies doesn't really go much below 5,000.
Keep an eye on the weather forecast as you get close to the day. And bring lots of clothes.
The weather can be pretty screwy. Last year there was a crazy warm spell right before Christmas. You might get lucky.
Stormennorm
12-05-2007, 22:32
Hey i use that same bag and hike in the smokys all winter long. If it gets really really cold just throw a nalgen with boiling water in it in the bag that helps it alot or get a bag liner that will bump up the wormth a bit but i never been cold in the montbell bag.
Hey i use that same bag and hike in the smokys all winter long. If it gets really really cold just throw a nalgen with boiling water in it in the bag that helps it alot or get a bag liner that will bump up the wormth a bit but i never been cold in the montbell bag.
Awesome. I may just have to give it a try. I wish I could test out the bag in my back yard in temps around zero, but it doesn't get that cold here very often.
You can still try it in your back yard and see how warm/cold you are with the clothing you're planning to sleep in on your hike. Cowboy camping (without a tent) is a good way to get colder.
A really huge factor, as Stormenorm points out, is getting the initial charge of heat in the bag. Getting in it before you cool off is helpful. The Nalgene full of hot water can really help. If you have a cold spot, putting something to insulate just that spot (like wrapping an extra shirt around your feet, or around your head and neck) helps, too.
A lot of you young guys burn pretty hot most of the time, though. You'll probably be fine.
The rangers had a complete backcountry fire ban (excluding stoves) thru Thanksgiving weekend, but are now allowing fires in rings at backcountry campsites & shelters. This can change, so check the NPS website before your hike.
Stormennorm
12-06-2007, 12:46
Egads were did you here this about the fire ban there website still says " all areas of the backcountry within the boundaries of the national park are closed to any open fires such as " just like to know ill be heading up again this weekend like almost everyweekend.
Do yo have any extra clothing you could wear, like a Micro-Puff Jacket or a Fleece? Do you have a warm hat, gloves, and down booties? If so you could probably make it with that bag. Of course with the Smokies, you never quite know what the weather is going to do, it could be in the 30's at night or it could be zero or below with high winds.
I would be prepared to take a lower route if you run into a cold snap or storm. If neded you could always go down to the Benton MacKay trail that runs east of the AT. It is lower and not as exposed to the wind. Both trails start at Fontana and end at Davenport Gap. I would start out on the AT and if it is too cold for you, drop down to the BMT, you could still finish in the same place.
The Nalgene trick really works, as well as hunter type disposable handwarmers.
envirodiver
12-06-2007, 13:14
Years ago the only bag that I had was a 20 deg synthetic bag. I used it during mid-winter at high elevations (coldest night was around 0 deg). I made a fleece bag and used it as a liner. They are not light, but they are cheap and effective. You can now find them at Wally world, K-Mart, REI, most anywhere.
Dang I should have started manufacturing those.
Do yo have any extra clothing you could wear, like a Micro-Puff Jacket or a Fleece? Do you have a warm hat, gloves, and down booties? If so you could probably make it with that bag. Of course with the Smokies, you never quite know what the weather is going to do, it could be in the 30's at night or it could be zero or below with high winds.
I would be prepared to take a lower route if you run into a cold snap or storm. If neded you could always go down to the Benton MacKay trail that runs east of the AT. It is lower and not as exposed to the wind. Both trails start at Fontana and end at Davenport Gap. I would start out on the AT and if it is too cold for you, drop down to the BMT, you could still finish in the same place.
The Nalgene trick really works, as well as hunter type disposable handwarmers.
Clothing I have to wear at camp and to sleep in if needed is Expedition weight polypro top and bottom. Fleece pants Mont-bell Thermawrap Parka + rain jacket. I slept in just the polypro tops and bottoms and woke up sweating like crazy. I don't know what the temps were that night but after my trip when I looked up the temps at a similar elevation in the park it was probably between 15 and 19 degrees. So I'd say the bag at least works down to its rating, most likely more.
My main concern isn't really the temps getting down to zero, but for there to be a crazy drop and they get down in the negatives. BUT I could just look up the weather before hand...if a storm system is coming in don't go:-?
For hiking I got so hot over thanksgiving I just wore underarmor cold gear top (somtimes just a t-shirt) and shorts, occasionally using long underwear bottoms.
I was in the Park over thanksgiving, at the lower elevations and the daytime temps were in the high forties/low fifties with nightime tempretures from the upper teens to the low twenties.
For hiking I wore
Ibex midweight baselayer top
REI Convertable Pants
Smartwool Boxer-Briefs
Smartwool Light Hikers
Marmot Ion widshirt (when needed)
100 wt fleece gloves (when needed)
OR skullcap (when needed)
When in camp I added a Micro Puff Pullover and changed to a 100 wt fleece hat.
When sleeping I wore:
Patagonia Capaline 1 top and bottom
Patagonia Micro Puff Pullover
Mont-Bell Thermawrap Pants
Smartwool Light Hikers
Seirra Designs Down Mutts (Booties)
200 wt fleece gloves
100 wt fleece hat
I used my WM Ultralite rated to 20* and a full legth prolite 4 and was very warm. I tend to be a cold natured person and I sleep very cold.
I don't know what sleeping pad you normally use, but you might consider adding a closed cell foam pad (Ridgerest, Z-lite, Blue Foam) under it. Many times we forget about our pad when talking about sleeping systems.
MTS, sorry to get off thread, but where are you in Louisville? Are you going to school? Reason I ask is because my son goes to Southern there and works there also. He recently moved across the river to New Albany.
I have a full length Prolite 4 pad, so should I get something else for putting under it? I can get another inflatable thermarest from a friend if that would work.
Karo: I go to UofL.
If it was going to be below zero, I would add a foam pad under it. The Prolite 4 only has an R-value of 3.2. You can up that to 5.4 with the addition of a $30 z-lite and probably simialr with a $8 blue foam pad.
You may get some better answers from some of the wiser members of the board. I have never been out in the backcountry below zero.
I would definately add another pad, just a cheap blue pad should be sufficient. Have Fun!!!
Should I bring a tarp or something to use to block the wind in the shelters? If so how big should it be?
Also, I'm new to down bags. I know I need to keep it dry while it's in my pack in case it rains, but is there anything I should know about in terms of sleeping in a shelter with one during the winter?
In winter on snow two blue foam pads are very warm and plenty comfy. Cheap and very light, just bulky. I would consider leaving the self-inflator home when there is snow and taking 2 blue foam pads. I think one should be extra wide on snow, like 28"
I know this sounds stupid, but what do you mean by blue foam pads?
Blissful
12-06-2007, 22:08
I know this sounds stupid, but what do you mean by blue foam pads?
Like the kind Wally World, Dicks and others sell? A closed foam pad for insulation.
Like the kind Wally World, Dicks and others sell? A closed foam pad for insulation.
cool, thanks. I found some.
Tennessee Viking
12-07-2007, 00:19
It is already getting 0-15 on the mountain tops. So be sure to bundle up.
TwoForty
12-09-2007, 00:04
It really depends. I'm a cold sleeper and I've used anything from a 20 to a -5.
TwoForty
12-09-2007, 00:05
If you need to push a 15 bag, add light gloves, a warm hat/balaclava, fleece pants, down booties, and a fleece jacket.
I've done that when the temps suddenly dropped.
Should I bring a tarp or something to use to block the wind in the shelters or is that something that is already there? If so how big should it be?
And if we just happen to be the only ones there at the shelter is it legal to set up a tent inside the shelter?
Should I bring a tarp or something to use to block the wind in the shelters or is that something that is already there? If so how big should it be?
And if we just happen to be the only ones there at the shelter is it legal to set up a tent inside the shelter?
The Smokies shelters are quite large--it would be tough for you to carry a tarp big enough to string across the front. Probably many of the shelters will already have tarps across the front.
Yes, you can set up your tent inside the shelter, if it will fit. The shelters are mostly two-level bunkbed types, so there's not necessarily enough height to set up a tent.
Just wondering. I am not sure I would want to be on the AT with a 15 degree bag. I would do it with a bivy and bag liner for added warmth if I had a companion. And about the fire ban - if I was gonna freeze or break the law, well....
Oh yeah, I should add that I live 40 minutes from the Smokies and have spent a lot of time hiking in the park in winter.
wrongway_08
12-12-2007, 22:11
1) If you sleep in a shelter, take your tent and wrap it around you - works as a bivy, keeps the wind off you and adds a few degrees. I did this on our last trip when I was too lazy to set the tent up, worked great.
2) Just to be on the safe side, grab a few of those heating pads from Walmart. They cost about $1.70 for a package of two LARGE ones and last 12 - 18 hours. The larger the heating pad, the longer it last. Two large packages would last 4 nights and as a added bonus, keep your canister stove (if you use one) working while cooking dinner and breakfast!
3) As stated earlier, wear layers to bed also and the heated water bottle.