When to use Crampons vs Snowshoes?

[DRLski]

Forgive such a newbie question, but...I'm a newbie. So, if the ground is covered in a few inches or more of snow how do you know if you should just throw some crampons on, use snowshoes, or neither? Just wondering since...well snowshoes have crampons, and I'm new to winter hiking. Do I just bring my snowshoes regardless of how much snow is on the ground as a "just in case" and just carry them on your back?

Thanks in advance,
Dave

[Tinker]

Snowshoes can be a hassle in light snow because they often get caught on rocks, roots, stumps, etc. causing you to stumble. Once the snow gets a foot or so deep things improve. Over two feet and it's the only way to go. On an unfamiliar trail in the winter it's best to have both, because the snowshoes can't climb very steep ice covered rocks. Crampons can. If you get yourself into a vertical situation like I just explained, you might want to just turn around and head back or find a different route (especially if you might be descending on ice). I suggest taking a few trips with an outdoor club in your area and/or going to a snowshoe/crampon clinic which you can usually find at an REI or EMS among other retailers.
The Appalachian Mountain Club runs very good expensive - er - extensive :o clinics, too.

[Toolshed]

Snowshoes are usually for flotation, whereas Crampons are for traction and grip. If you find yourself in 4" or more of snow where you are postholing, then each step you take sucks energy out of you and the snowshoes become the rule.
If you are in the NE, Whites, Greens or Dacks, you will likely want both. I typically wear either snowshoes or BC skis for the approach, and then at or near treeline where I can have some shelter from raging winds, I change into Crampons. (please visit VFTT (http://viewsfromthetop.com/) for a local group of great climbers and backpackers)

Some folks wear their snowshoes right to the summit of peaks. I have in the past, trying to save time from switching to crampons, but it becomes too treacherous where there is rock and ice cover in spots and one needs to pick their footing carefully. Also switching between the 2 at 5F in a 40 MPH wind on slick surfaces, is quite a bit different than sitting on your tailgate at the trail head (or on your porch) as you eagerly try out your new gear.

I also always carry hiking poles and sometimes an ice axe.

If you are on flat trails and not planning to head across a summit or two, you can drop the crampons and use just your snowshoes.
In the ADK high peaks, you need to have snowshoes or skis on if there is more than 8" (IIRC) of snow on the trails. You will get warned and even fined. Even if the lower trails are packed down well.

[take-a-knee]

Snowshoes are usually for flotation, whereas Crampons are for traction and grip. If you find yourself in 4" or more of snow where you are postholing, then each step you take sucks energy out of you and the snowshoes become the rule.
If you are in the NE, Whites, Greens or Dacks, you will likely want both. I typically wear either snowshoes or BC skis for the approach, and then at or near treeline where I can have some shelter from raging winds, I change into Crampons. (please visit VFTT (http://viewsfromthetop.com/) for a local group of great climbers and backpackers)

Some folks wear their snowshoes right to the summit of peaks. I have in the past, trying to save time from switching to crampons, but it becomes too treacherous where there is rock and ice cover in spots and one needs to pick their footing carefully. Also switching between the 2 at 5F in a 40 MPH wind on slick surfaces, is quite a bit different than sitting on your tailgate at the trail head (or on your porch) as you eagerly try out your new gear.

I also always carry hiking poles and sometimes an ice axe.

If you are on flat trails and not planning to head across a summit or two, you can drop the crampons and use just your snowshoes.
In the ADK high peaks, you need to have snowshoes or skis on if there is more than 4" (IIRC) of snow on the trails. You will get warned and even fined. Even if the lower trails are packed down well.

Why would you need snowshoes with 4in of snow? 10-12 in maybe. When the surface snow has thawed and refrozen and been pounded by high winds into a "crust", that is when it becomes exhausting, with each step the snow will almost support your weight before your foot plunges into the soft snow beneath. You desparately need snowshoes then, and you need snowshoes with a crampon made into the binding (if not the snowshoes turn to skiis, with poor results). When the frozen snow will support your weight, then crampons become essential. The make aluminum crampons now that are fine for alpine stuff, you can't climb waterfalls with them. If you start climbing snow slopes at a 30degree angle or steeper, you've stopped hiking and started climbing. You'll then need an ice axe, with knowledge of how to chop steps, and of course to self arrest. Rope work with a trained partner becomes prudent at that point.

[DRLski]

Thanks for all the advice guys, this is all new to me so I appreciate it.

[Mr. Clean]

Kahtoola makes a crampon called micro spikes, or something like that. Anyone tried them yet? They look a bit more user friendly than my Grivels.

[_terrapin_]

Crampons for ice and hard, frozen or trampled snow. Snowshoes for deep, uncompressed snow.

[sasquatch2014]

Now if the stuff you are going on is more mild and you don't want a full on crampon then you may want to look at something like YakTrax. They fit on your boots and give you a bit more bit than your boots alone will provide and weight almost nothing. you also will not stab yourself with them if you screw up.

[Peaks]

Now if the stuff you are going on is more mild and you don't want a full on crampon then you may want to look at something like YakTrax. They fit on your boots and give you a bit more bit than your boots alone will provide and weight almost nothing. you also will not stab yourself with them if you screw up.

YakTrax are fine for walking the dog, but don't do well in mountainous terrain.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Since you're from NH, and may wind up here in the Whites, just a word of caution. If you wear crampons, you need to know how to use them and how to self-arrest on a slope, as you can easily turn a slide into an out of control tumble by trying to use the crampons to arrest a slide. And if you need crampons you may well need an ice axe as well - and training and practice in self-belay and self-arrest techniques.

[sasquatch2014]

I guess it depends on what you consider terrain that needs them. would i go where it would be better to be roped up for ultimate safty no. For a good part of the AT they work just fine. In all the trail that i have seen from South Vt to NY and in MD there is nothing that would require more with a few short exceptions.

[Mags]

What the crazy trail runners use around here for icy yet not too steep slopes...
http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm

A bit less power tool centric:
http://www.kahtoola.com/kts_aluminum.html

(And what this guy used (http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2007/mar/09/elliott-climbing-toward-100-winter-ascents-of-in/) up a very icy and steep local slope! (http://totalboulder.com/resources/42.html))

What Mags uses instead of snowshoes :)

http://www.orscrosscountryskisdirect.com/swix-xc-ski-touring-wax-kit-p0020g.html

OR

http://207.36.65.195/Pages/skins.html

[4eyedbuzzard]

I guess it depends on what you consider terrain that needs them. would i go where it would be better to be roped up for ultimate safty no. For a good part of the AT they work just fine. In all the trail that i have seen from South Vt to NY and in MD there is nothing that would require more with a few short exceptions.

I just thought I'd caution the OP as he is from Derry, NH. People get on I-93 North and two hours later they're hiking/climbing into situations they shouldn't be without proper gear AND some training and experience/practice. Crampons give people the ability(traction) to get into situations they probably shouldn't be in unless they're roped up or at minimum have some alpine style climbing experience.

[sasquatch2014]

I just thought I'd caution the OP as he is from Derry, NH. People get on I-93 North and two hours later they're hiking/climbing into situations they shouldn't be without proper gear AND some training and experience/practice. Crampons give people the ability(traction) to get into situations they probably shouldn't be in unless they're roped up or at minimum have some alpine style climbing experience.

I fully agree with you people often hear from people on sites like this and feel that sometime infront of a computer screen will give them the skills needed to deal with adverse conditions. My previous statement was more geared at the statement that YakTrax are only good for use on a driveway. Then again some of the trail I have been on is less steep and uneven than my driveway.:-?

[4eyedbuzzard]

My previous driveway was like a double diamond run - with moguls too!:eek: :D

[DRLski]

I have no problem getting the experience...that's why I'm going out and hiking and trying to get advice from you guys ahead of time so I have an "idea" of what to expect. Unfortunately I'm unemployed thanks to a recent layoff and can't afford any classes right now.

[shelterbuilder]

Many years ago (mid-70's), when I was a poor college student who was constantly torn between buying text books and buying outdoor equipment, I stumbled across a pair of Army surplus "crampons" that were little more than ice creepers - 1/2 inch spikes anchored to an adjustable-width bottom-plate. I bought them (instead of a comparative religions text!) and used them for a few years on ice and icy snow, and they worked well enough. Do they still make these?

[take-a-knee]

I have no problem getting the experience...that's why I'm going out and hiking and trying to get advice from you guys ahead of time so I have an "idea" of what to expect. Unfortunately I'm unemployed thanks to a recent layoff and can't afford any classes right now.

If you can bum a pair of crampons and an ice axe you can go up to Tuckerman's Ravine and teach yourself to self arrest, there are videos on the net. You need a steep snow slope to practice that has a level runnout at the bottom. Get a hold of a copy of "Mountaineering, the Freedom of the Hills. Study the boot-axe belay and read the rest of the stuff on steep snow. As long as you don't have to deal with crevasses, it really isn't that tough. Learning to rock climb in the summer is the best way to learn safe rope handling.