AT Elevation Gain and Loss, by Section

[map man]

AT Elevation Gain and Loss, by Section

by map man (Steve Shuman)


It's useful to know how much a trail goes up and down. Hikers thinking about hiking part of a trail, whether it's rugged or easy terrain they are looking for, can use information about how much a segment rises and falls to make their decision. Thru-hikers can use the information to help determine how long it's likely to take them to get to their next resupply point. And all hikers can benefit from this knowledge toward the end of the day when deciding whether to push on to that next shelter or road crossing.

But what's the best way to figure out how much elevation gain and loss to expect? Some find the elevation profiles on AT maps to be handy, but sometimes these profiles have their drawbacks. It's not uncommon for hikers to be surprised by the ruggedness of a section of trail that looked easier on the elevation profile. And different maps often use different profile scales, some exaggerating rise and fall more than others.

Others might use electronic databases like the ATC's centerline data available for download. But I have seen this centerline data, and data from commercial map companies as well, plotted graphically onto satellite photos or topographic maps (using google earth, for one), and it's easy to see that none of them have a data point at every single spot on the trail where rising ground changes to falling ground, and vice-versa, which is what you would need to accurately compute elevation gain and loss using these electronic resources.

But a much more low-tech solution is available. One can look at the USGS 7.5 minute topographic maps for the entire trail and count the contour lines the trail crosses, going both up and down. All one needs are all the ATC maps (to spot any trail changes that have occured since the various USGS maps were published), USGS maps, and a lot of time and tolerance for tedium.

So that's what I've been doing with much of my spare time for the last two months. And I have results to share. But first, a couple disclaimers. First, I know that elevation gain and loss per mile is not the only determiner of how difficult a stretch of trail is. Many who've hiked both the AT and Pacific Crest Trail will tell you that a day with 4000 feet of elevation gain on the PCT often feels much easier than a day on the AT climbing the same amount. The quality of the treadway has a lot to do with this. But, still, the amount of climbing and falling is still the one single most important factor contributing to ruggedness in most circumstances.

Second, my data is only as current as the ATC maps, and those vary in publication date from very recent to as old as 1998. So any trail reroutes since the map publication will have an effect on some small sections.

So, with those qualifications, here is the AT divided up into 37 segments. I chose the end points for these sections based on the trail towns and hostels and road crossings both section and thru-hikers are most likely to use as resupply destinations. All elevation rise and fall is expressed as feet per mile. Obviously elevation gain for a NOBO is elevation loss for a SOBO, and vice-versa, and the table should be read that way. I also list the miles for each section (mileage figures come from the 2007 edition of the AT Companion):


Table 1 -- Elevation Gain and Loss by Section

Southern Half

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
281.......285........276........31.4........Spring er - Neels Gap
334.......340........328........36.1........Neels Gap - Hiawassee
229.......216........242........40.0........Hiawas see - Franklin
311.......329........294........54.9........Frankl in - Fontana
302.......263........340........42.1........Fontan a - Gatlinburg
256.......305........208........33.7........Gatlin burg - Green Corner Road
276.......283........269........33.4........Green Corner Road - Hot Springs
273.......270........275........68.0........Hot Springs - Erwin
279.......273........286........70.6........Erwin - Dennis Cove Road
235.......241........228........50.2........Dennis Cove Road - Damascus
227.......223........230........75.3........Damasc us - Atkins
239.......244........234........87.8........Atkins - Pearisburg
251.......253........249........91.7........Pearis burg - Daleville
258.......263........253........56.7........Dalevi lle - Glasgow
270.......262........278........77.1........Glasgo w - Waynesboro
212.......217........208........107.1.......Waynes boro - Front Royal
219.......226........213........54.0........Front Royal - Harpers Ferry
154.......150........157........78.7........Harper s Ferry - Pine Grove Furnace State Park

Northern Half

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
138.......143........132........45.0........Pine Grove Furnace - Duncannon
130.......129........130........70.0........Duncan non - Port Clinton
132.......133........131........76.5........Port Clinton - Delaware Water Gap
154.......152........155........63.1........Delawa re Water Gap - Vernon
226.......229........223........45.8........Vernon - Bear Mountain Bridge
216.......214........218........63.2........Bear Mountain Bridge - Kent
199.......195........202........102.9.......Kent - Dalton
222.......217........226........81.8........Dalton - Manchester Center
228.......228........228........49.8........Manche ster Center - Rutland
282.......299........266........45.6........Rutlan d - Hanover
272.......265........279........43.9........Hanove r - Glencliff
343.......341........345........53.5........Glencl iff - Crawford Notch
364.......369........358........47.1........Crawfo rd Notch - Gorham
366.......360........372........51.5........Gorham - South Arm Road (Andover)
307.......308........307........58.6........South Arm Road - Stratton
347.......353........340........16.7........Stratt on - East Flagstaff Road
164.......164........165........56.6........East Flagstaff Road - Monson
172.......173........172........109.3.......Monson - The Birches (Baxter SP)
404.......404........404........10.4........Up and Down Katahdin

236.......237........236........2180.1.....Entire Trail (about 515,000 ft. -- 97.5 miles)


More notes on selection of these boundary points: Green Corner Road leads to the popular Standing Bear Farm Hostel; Dennis Cove Road leads to the popular Kincora Hostel; Glasgow VA is not frequented by a lot of hikers but no single town between Daleville and Waynesboro is these days, and I wanted to break up what would have otherwise been a 130 mile stretch; I chose East Flagstaff Road because the hiking ruggedness changes so drastically at that boundary between the east and west parts of the trail in Maine. Also, you might note that I list the whole trail as being 2180.1 miles. A little long, you say. But I notice that the only way to begin or end a hike on Springer or Katahdin is to go BOTH up and down these mountains (no helicopter rides available), so I add .9 miles at the very southern end (to account for a trip from USFS 42 to Springer and back) and 5.2 miles at the very northern end (a hike from The Birches up Katahdin and back). Other slight oddities about my mileage figures is that I like to use the bridges over rivers (the low point of that part of the trail) in or near trail towns as section boundary points instead of the town centers, which are often hard to locate exactly. I do this at Pearisburg, Harpers Ferry (the Potomac), DWG, Bear Mountain and Hanover.

And my figure of 236 average feet/mile up and down for the whole trail is about 8 to 9% higher than the figures I've seen cited with the ATC given as the source (somewhere between 210 and 220, although I can't find a number given anywhere on the ATC's current web site). I believe that the ATC is undercounting by this amount because they are adding up all MAJOR up and downs but not sweating so much about some smaller ones.

Here's why I say that. The guidebook for Maine lists the elevation gain and loss for seven different Maine sections corresponding to the seven maps that the Maine Appalachian Trail Club produces. For the western-most section, full of long, pronounced ups and downs, the elevation gain and loss numbers given come pretty close to matching the figures I calculate. For the eastern-most section, though, with many more gentle ups and downs (with the obvious exception of Katahdin), the guidebook says there is only 2200 feet of elevation gain for a southbound hiker between Katahdin and the south end of Nahmakanta Lake. I get a figure more than double that. In fact, to get 2200 feet as a total one would have to count ONLY the elevation gains of more than 100 feet. I suspect that many smaller ups and downs the length of the trail are not being counted by the ATC.

On to another table. Ever wanted to settle a bar bet over which states on the AT have more or less rise and fall per mile? All right, you probably have better things to think about, but here is a table that breaks down average elevation gain and loss by state anyway. I also list the miles for each state. I don't try to separate Tennessee from North Carolina because the trail wanders back and forth between the two so many times:


Table 2 -- Average Elevation Gain and Loss, by State

AVG~~~MILES~~~STATE
307.........76.1.........Georgia
272........380.8........North Carolina/Tennessee
241........535.7........Virginia
173.........17.5.........West Virginia
157.........40.9.........Maryland
135........229.3........Pennsylvania
160.........72.4.........New Jersey
217.........88.2.........New York
215.........51.6.........Connecticut
208.........90.2.........Massachusetts
239........149.8........Vermont
329........161.0........New Hampshire
242........286.6........Maine


New Hampshire is the hilliest, followed by Georgia, which might surprise some. Least hilly are those four middle states, West Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Most closely resembling the entire AT for average elevation gain and loss are Vermont, Virginia and Maine, although Maine achieves this by averaging the two extremes of gentler east and rugged west, as I've already mentioned.

The last table includes more information than any sane person would want to take in in one sitting. It contains SOBO, NOBO and average elevation gain for 338 trail segments! It shows these figures as well as the miles between every AT shelter, plus I throw in many hostel locations, trail towns and road crossings leading to popular places. In short, any place many hikers are likely to seek shelter. I break them into several sections to make them more readable and hopefully be helpful to section hikers. I'm not going to keep typing the word, "shelter" or "lean-to." Assume it's the name of a shelter unless it's obvious it's not. If the boundary point is a town the trail goes through, I'll mention the state it's in. If it's a road crossing that leads to a town I'll list the town and highway number. Also, elevation is counted at the point which a side trail exits the AT leading to a shelter. If a shelter is at least 100 feet above or below the AT exit point, I mention that with a plus or minus sign by the shelter name:


Table 3 -- Elevation Gain and Loss from Shelter to Shelter

Amicalola State Park GA - Hiawassee GA

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
311.......141........482.......(8.8)........Approa ch Trail
100.......200..........0.........(.2).........Spri nger Mtn. - Springer Shelter
261.......452.........70........(2.3)........Sprin ger Shelter - Stover Creek
239.......204........275.......(5.1)........Stover Creek - Hawk Mtn. (+240 ft.)
364.......384........345.......(7.3)........Hawk Mtn. - Gooch Mtn.
200.......176........224.......(5.0)........Gooch Mtn. - Suches (GA 60)
255.......220........290.......(6.9)........Suches - Woods Hole
323........31........615........(1.3)........Woods Hole - Blood Mtn.
375.......650........100.......(2.4)........Blood Mtn. - Neels Gap (US 19)
342.......303........381.......(6.2)........Neels Gap - Whitley Gap (-200 ft.)
400.......464........336.......(4.4)........Whitle y Gap - Low Gap
239.......178........300.......(7.2)........Low Gap - Blue Mtn.
345.......564........127.......(2.2)........Blue Mtn. - Helen (GA 75)
382.......262........502.......(5.5)........Helen - Tray Mtn.
358.......406........310.......(7.1)........Tray Mtn. - Deep Gap
303.......434........171.......(3.5)........Deep Gap - Hiawassee (US 76)

Hiawassee GA - Fontana NC

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
321.......270........372.......(4.3)........Hiawas see - Plumorchard Gap
293.......192........395.......(7.3)........Plumor chard Gap - Muskrat Creek
204.......196........212.......(4.9)........Muskra t Creek - Standing Indian
192.......195........189.......(7.6)........Standi ng Indian - Carter Gap
188.......165........212.......(6.8)........Carter Gap - Big Spring
211.......325.........98........(5.3)........Big Spring - Rock Gap
205.......211........200.......(3.8)........Rock Gap - Franklin (US 64)
200........76.........324.......(3.7)........Frank lin - Siler Bald
289.......278........301......(12.1).......Siler Bald - Cold Spring
269.......331........207.......(5.8)........Cold Spring - Wesser Bald
314.......506........122.......(4.9)........Wesser Bald - A. Rufus Morgan
525.......900........150........(.8).........A. Rufus Morgan - NOC (US 19, 74)
336.......139........533.......(6.9)........NOC - Sassafras Gap
385.......418........352.......(9.1)........Sassaf ras Gap - Brown Fork Gap
305.......380........230.......(6.1)........Brown Fork Gap - Cable Gap
300.......382........218.......(6.6)........Cable Gap - Fontana Dam Shelter

Fontana NC - Hot Springs NC

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
312.......188........435.......(11.3).......Fontan a Dam Shelter - Mollies Ridge
328.......368........288........(2.5).......Mollie s Ridge - Russell Field
193.......110........276........(2.9).......Russel l Field - Spence Field
394.......394........394........(6.3).......Spence Field - Derrick Knob
302.......247........356........(5.5).......Derric k Knob - Silers Bald
271.......259........282........(1.7).......Silers Bald - Double Spring Gap
292.......260........324........(6.3).......Double Spring Gap - Mt. Collins
231.......329........133........(4.5).......Mt. Collins - Gatlinburg (US 441)
240........93.........387........(3.0).......Gatli nburg - Icewater Spring
262.......286........238........(7.4).......Icewat er Spring - Peck's Corner (-270 ft.)
277.......238........315........(5.2).......Peck's Corner - Tri-Corner Knob
197.......270........125........(7.7).......Tri-Corner Knob - Cosby Knob (-130 ft.)
276.......428........124........(7.1).......Cosby Knob - Davenport Gap
321.......461........182........(3.3).......Davenp ort Gap - Green Corner Road
342.......261........422........(7.2).......Green Corner Road - Groundhog Creek
234.......166........302........(8.2).......Ground hog Creek - Roaring Fork
253.......229........278........(4.9).......Roarin g Fork - Walnut Mtn.
275.......372........178........(9.9).......Walnut Mtn. - Deer Park Mtn.
275.......437........113........(3.2).......Deer Park Mtn. - Hot Springs NC

Hot Springs NC - Elk Park NC

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
278.......175........382.......(11.0).......Hot Springs - Spring Mtn.
284.......279........288........(8.6).......Spring Mtn. - Little Laurel
215.......176........253........(6.8).......Little Laurel - Jerry Cabin
261.......312........210........(5.9).......Jerry Cabin - Flint Mtn.
305.......268........341........(8.8).......Flint Mtn. - Hogback Ridge
300.......260........340.......(10.0).......Hogbac k Ridge - Bald Mtn.
289.......374........204.......(10.6).......Bald Mtn. - No Business Knob
206.......330.........83.........(6.3).......No Business Knob - Erwin TN
205........38.........371........(4.2).......Erwin - Curley Maple Gap
269.......233........305.......(12.2).......Curley Maple Gap - Cherry Gap
296.......290........301........(6.9).......Cherry Gap - Greasy Creek Gap
189....... 84.........295........(1.9).......Greasy Creek Gap - Clyde Smith
388.......250........525........(6.4).......Clyde Smith - Roan High Knob
258.......375........142........(4.8).......Roan High Knob - Stan Murray
282.......400........165........(1.7).......Stan Murray - Overmountain
305.......405........205........(8.2).......Overmo untain - Apple House
240.......400.........80.........(.5).........Appl e House - Elk Park (US 19E)

Elk Park NC - Damascus VA

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SHELTER
273.......239........307........(8.2).......Elk Park - Mounaineer
227.......206........248........(9.5).......Mounta ineer - Moreland Gap
318.......420........216........(6.1).......Morela nd Gap - Dennis Cove Road
221.......379.........63.........(1.9).......Denni s Cove Road - Laurel Fork (+250 ft.)
320.......320........320........(7.0).......Laurel Fork - Hampton (US 321)
122.......111........133........(1.8).......Hampto n - Watauga Lake Shelter
344.......235........453........(6.8).......Wataug a Lake Shelter - Vandeventer
221.......182........259........(6.8).......Vandev enter - Iron Mtn.
163.......158........168........(7.6).......Iron Mtn. - Double Springs
222.......241........202........(8.3).......Double Springs - Abingdon Gap
198.......292........104.......(10.0).......Abingd on Gap - Damascus VA

Damascus VA - Pearisburg VA

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SHELTER
283.......209........357.......(9.4)........Damasc us - Saunders
269.......263........275.......(6.4)........Saunde rs - Lost Mtn.
223.......141........305......(12.2)........Lost Mtn. - Thomas Knob
188.......290.........86........(5.1)........Thoma s Knob - Wise
180.......203........160.......(5.9)........Wise - Old Orchard
232.......248........216.......(5.0)........Old Orchard - Hurricane Mtn.
218.......268........167.......(9.1)........Hurric ane Mtn. - Trimpi
197.......185........209......(10.6)........Trimpi - Partnership
263.......270........256.......(7.1)........Partne rship - Chatfield
191.......271........111.......(4.5)........Chatfi eld - Atkins (US 11)
189.......111........267.......(2.7)........Atkins - Davis Path
315.......314........316......(11.2)........Davis Path - Knot Maul
282.......196........369.......(9.0)........Knot Maul - Chestnut Knob
260.......360........160......(10.0)........Chestn ut Knob - Jenkins
240.......219........261......(11.5)........Jenkin s - Bland (US 21/52)
296.......243........348.......(2.3)........Bland - Helveys Mill
197.......214........180.......(9.8)........Helvey s Mill - Jenny Knob
180.......187........172......(14.2)........Jenny Knob - Wapiti
205.......148........262.......(8.4)........Wapiti - Doc's Knob
248.......361........136.......(8.7)........Doc's Knob - Pearisburg (US 460)

Pearisburg VA - Daleville VA

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SHELTER
248.......110........387.......(6.2)........Pearis burg - Rice Field
220.......252........189......(12.3)........Rice Field - Pine Swamp Branch
267.......138........395.......(3.9)........Pine Swamp Branch - Bailey Gap
163.......230.........95........(8.8)........Baile y Gap - War Spur
334.......303........366.......(5.8)........War Spur - Laurel Creek
275.......222........328.......(6.4)........Laurel Creek - Sarver Hollow
205.......337........ 73........(6.0)........Sarver Hollow - Niday
260.......251........269.......(9.9)........Niday - Pickle Branch
292.......294........290......(12.6)........Pickle Branch - Catawba (VA 311)
280.......300........260.......(1.0)........Catawb a - Johns Spring
210........80.........340.......(1.0)........Johns Spring - Catawba Mtn.
354.......267........442.......(2.4)........Catawb a Mtn. - Campbell
250.......293........207.......(6.0)........Campbe ll - Lamberts Meadow
241.......285........198.......(9.4)........Lamber ts Meadow - Daleville (US 220)

Daleville VA - Waynesboro VA

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
272.......132........412.......(5.0)........Dalevi lle - Fullhardt Knob
289.......355........223.......(6.2)........Fullha rdt Knob - Wilson Creek
186.......167........205.......(7.3)........Wilson Creek - Bobblets Gap
219.......231........206.......(6.4)........Bobble ts Gap - Cove. Mtn.
307.......354........261.......(6.9)........Cove Mtn. - Bryant Ridge
328.......148........508.......(5.0)........Bryant Ridge - Cornelius Creek
294.......211........377.......(5.3)........Cornel ius Creek - Thunder Hill
263.......390........135......(12.4)........Thunde r Hill - Matts Creek
73.........109........36........(2.2)........Matts Creek - Glasgow (US 501)
247.......118........376.......(1.7)........Glasgo w - Johns Hollow
305.......223........386.......(8.8)........Johns Hollow - Punchbowl
240.......303........177.......(9.5)........Punchb owl - Brown Mtn. Creek
311.......136........486.......(5.6)........Brown Mtn. Creek - Cow Camp Gap (-150 ft.)
251.......227........275......(10.2)........Cow Camp Gap - Seeley-Woodworth
287.......284........290.......(6.9)........Seeley-Woodworth - The Priest
368.......508........227.......(7.4)........The Priest - Harpers Creek
368.......287........448.......(6.2)........Harper s Creek - Maupin Field
196.......230........162......(15.8)........Maupin Field - Paul C. Wolfe
216.......192........240.......(5.0)........Paul C. Wolfe - Waynesboro (US 250)

Waynesboro VA - Front Royal VA

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
211.......154........269.......(7.0)........Waynes boro - Calf Mtn.
237.......240........234......(13.0)........Calf. Mtn. - Blackrock Hut
138........92.........184.......(7.4)........Black rock - Loft Mtn. Campground
252.......324........179.......(5.8)........Loft Mtn. - Pinefield Hut
215.......171........259.......(8.2)........Pinefi eld - Hightop Hut
226.......215........236......(11.7)........Highto p - Lewis Mtn. Campground
200.......343.........57.........(.7).........Lewi s Mtn. - Bearfence Mtn. Hut (-100 ft.)
158.......130........185.......(8.0)........Bearfe nce Mtn. - Big Meadows Campground
194.......217........171.......(3.5)........Big Meadows - Rock Spring Hut
217.......241........193......(15.3)........Rock Spring - Pass Mtn. Hut (-100 ft.)
215.......221........209......(13.1)........Pass Mtn. - Gravel Springs Hut
210.......246........175......(10.5)........Gravel Springs - Tom Floyd Wayside
303.......462........145.......(2.9)........Tom Floyd - Front Royal (US 522)

Front Royal VA - Harpers Ferry WV

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
187.......154........219.......(5.2)........Front Royal - Jim and Molly Denton
242.......211........273.......(5.5)........Jim and Molly Denton - Manassas Gap
205.......241........168.......(4.4)........Manass as Gap - Dick's Dome (-100 ft.)
185.......210........160.......(8.4)........Dick's Dome - Rod Hollow
326.......325........328.......(6.9)........Rod Hollow - Sam Moore
343.......280........407.......(3.0)........Sam Moore - Bear's Den Hostel
227.......203........251.......(7.9)........Bear's Den - Blackburn Trail Center (-300 ft.)
159.......200........119.......(3.2)........Blackb urn Trail Center - David Lesser
160.......221.........99........(9.5)........David Lesser - Harpers Ferry WV

Harpers Ferry WV - Boiling Springs PA

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
95.........32.........159.......(6.3)........Harpe rs Ferry - Ed Garvey
149.......141........156.......(4.1)........Ed Garvey - Crampton Gap (-130 ft.)
168.......184........152.......(5.0)........Crampt on Gap - Rocky Run
117........89.........144.......(1.8)........Rocky Run - Dahlgren Backpack Campground
181.......147........214.......(5.7)........Dahlgr en - Pine Knob
161.......168........154.......(8.2)........Pine Knob - Ensign Cowell
220.......188........253.......(4.9)........Ensign Cowell - Devils Racecourse (-170 ft.)
179.......192........167.......(9.6)........Devils Racecourse - Deer Lick
158.......267.........50........(2.4)........Deer Lick - Antietam
92..........0..........183.......(1.2)........Anti etam - Tumbling Run
160.......146........174......(12.2)........Tumbli ng Run - Quarry Gap
147.......124........170.......(7.4)........Quarry Gap - Birch Run
123.......161.........84........(6.2)........Birch Run - Toms Run
105.......168.........43........(3.7)........Toms Run - Pine Grove Furnace State Park
125.......133........117.......(7.2)........Pine Grove Furnace - James Frye (Tagg Run)
190.......183........198.......(8.3)........James Frye - Alec Kennedy
167.......215........118.......(3.9)........Alec Kennedy - Boiling Springs PA

Boiling Springs PA - Palmerton PA

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
85..........60........109.......(14.3).......Boili ng Springs - Darlington
166.......163........168.......(7.3)........Darlin gton - Cove Mtn.
160.......268.........52........(4.0)........Cove Mtn. - Duncannon PA
141........61.........222.......(4.6)........Dunca nnon - Clarks Ferry
132.......126........138.......(6.8)........Clarks Ferry - Peters Mtn.
142.......146........137......(17.5)........Peters Mtn. - Rausch Gap
171.......156........186......(13.3)........Rausch Gap - William Penn
122.......117........127.......(4.1)........Willia m Penn - 501 Shelter
72..........68.........77.......(15.1).......501 - Eagle's Nest
136.......205.........67........(8.6)........Eagle 's Nest - Port Clinton PA
200.......161........239.......(6.1)........Port Clinton - Windsor Furnace
130.......143........116.......(9.1)........Windso r Furnace - Eckville Shelter
136........73.........200.......(7.4)........Eckvi lle - Allentown Hiking Club
102.......110.........94.......(10.0)........Allen town Hiking Club - Bake Oven Knob
121.......153.........88........(6.8)........Bake Oven Knob - George W. Outerbridge
356.......667.........44.........(.9).........Oute rbridge - Palmerton (PA 248)

Palmerton PA - Vernon NJ

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
116........84.........148......(15.8).......Palmer ton - Leroy A. Smith
139.......191.........87........(4.6)........Leroy A. Smith - Wind Gap (PA 33)
98.........70.........126........(9.2).......Wind Gap - Kirkridge
174.......264.........85........(6.6)........Kirkr idge - Delaware Water Gap PA
165.......118........196.......(10.3).......DWG - Mohican Outdoor Center
153.......151........155.......(14.3).......Mohica n Outdoor Center - Brink Road
170.......158........182.......(6.6)........Brink Road Shelter - Gren Anderson
153.......145........162.......(5.8)........Gren Anderson - Mashipacong
138.......152........124.......(2.9)........Maship acong - Rutherford
179.......186........172.......(4.3)........Ruther ford - High Point
128.......189.........68........(5.3)........High Point - Secret Shelter
125.......113........138.......(7.1)........Secret Shelter - Pochuck Mtn.
174.......203........145.......(6.5)........Pochuc k Mtn. - Vernon (NJ 94)

Vernon NJ - Kent CT

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
213.......143........283.......(5.3)........Vernon - Wawayanda
169.......175........163......(12.0)........Wawaya nda - Wildcat
257.......248........267......(14.3)........Wildca t - Fingerboard
175.......200........151.......(5.3)........Finger board - William Brien
352.......335........368.......(3.1)........Willia m Brien - West Mtn.
257.......345........169.......(5.8)........West Mtn. - Bear Mtn. Bridge
235.......203........267.......(6.3)........Bear Mtn. Bridge - Graymoor Center
232.......239........225......(16.9)........Graymo or Center - RPH
221.......167........274.......(9.0)........RPH - Morgan Stewart
195.......221........170.......(7.6)........Morgan Stewart - Telephone Pioneers
329.......571.........86.........(.7)........Telep hone Pioneers - Pawling (County 20)
173.......166........180.......(8.0)........Pawlin g - Wiley
241.......288........195.......(4.0)........Wiley - Ten Mile River
242.......219........264.......(8.4)........Ten Mile River - Mt. Algo
617......1133.......100........(.3).........Mt. Algo - Kent (CT 341)

Kent CT - Dalton MA

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
200.......197........203.......(7.0)........Kent - Stewart Hollow Brook
238.......204........271......(10.0)........Stewar t Hollow Brook - Pine Swamp Brook
181.......172........190......(12.3)........Pine Swamp Brook - Limestone Spring (-330 ft.)
204.......303........106.......(3.3)........Limest one Spring - Salisbury (US 44)
176........62.........289.......(4.2)........Salis bury - Riga
133.......100........167.......(1.2)........Riga - Brassie Brook
252.......240........265.......(8.8)........Brassi e Brook - Hemlocks, Glen Brook
184.......197........172......(14.4)........Hemloc ks, Glen Brook - Tom Leonard
215.......350.........80........(2.0)........Tom Leonard - Great Barrington (MA 23)
262.......158........367.......(3.3)........Great Barrington - Mt. Wilcox South
219.......219........122.......(1.8)........Mt. Wilcox South - Mt. Wilcox North (-120 ft.)
200.......216........184......(14.0)........Mt. Wilcox North - Upper Goose Pond Cabin (-110 ft.)
197.......182........211.......(8.8)........Upper Goose Pond Cabin - October Mtn.
120.......123........118.......(8.8)........Octobe r Mtn. - Kay Wood
237.......353........120.......(3.0)........Kay Wood - Dalton MA

Dalton MA - Manchester Center VT

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
197.......207........186.......(8.6)........Dalton - Cheshire MA
220........43.........396.......(5.1)........Chesh ire - Mark Noepel
261.......297........224.......(6.6)........Mark Noepel - Wilbur Clearing
347.......620.........73........(3.0)........Wilbu r Clearing - North Adams (MA 2)
214.......104........325.......(6.9)........North Adams - Seth Warner
290.......296........285.......(5.2)........Seth Warner - Congdon
266.......237........295.......(5.9)........Congdo n - Melville Nauheim
211.......144........278.......(8.5)........Melvil le Nauheim - Goddard
240.......330........149.......(4.3)........Goddar d - Kid Gore
185.......183........187.......(4.6)........Kid Gore - Story Spring
248.......259........236......(10.5)........Story Spring - Stratton Pond
129.......158........100.......(4.8)........Stratt on Pond - William B. Douglas
160.......160........160.......(3.0)........Willia m B. Douglas - Spruce Peak
232.......307........157.......(2.8)........Spruce Peak - Manchester Center (VT 11)

Manchester Center VT - Hanover NH

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
247.......210........283......(10.1)........Manche ster Center - Peru Peak
143.......183........102.......(4.7)........Peru Peak - Long Pond
218.......435..........0........(1.7)........Long Pond - Big Branch
130........67.........193.......(3.0)........Big Branch - Lula Tye
29.........29..........29.........(.7)........Lula Tye - Little Rock Pond
186.......150........223.......(4.4)........Little Rock Pond - Greenwall (-180 ft.)
316.......373........259.......(5.1)........Greenw all - Minerva Hinchey
335.......384........286.......(3.7)........Minerv a Hinchey - Clarendon
166.......118........215.......(6.8)........Claren don - Governor Clement
267........37.........498.......(4.3)........Gover nor Clement - Cooper Lodge
168.......256.........80........(2.5)........Coope r Lodge - Pico Camp
311.......547.........74........(1.9)........Pico Camp - Churchill Scott
237.......411.........63........(1.9)........Churc hill Scott - Rutland (US 4)
200........20.........380.......(1.0)........Rutla nd - Tucker Johnson (Long Trail Junction)
308.......358........258.......(9.0)........Tucker Johnson - Stony Brook
269.......232........305.......(9.9)........Stony Brook - Wintturi (-160 ft.)
332.......347........317......(11.6)........Winttu ri - Thistle Hill
277.......295........259.......(8.8)........Thistl e Hill - Happy Hill
179.......275.........83........(5.3)........Happy Hill - Hanover NH

Hanover NH - Franconia Notch NH

(For most of the AT I don't include tentsites and campsites in this shelter listing, only shelters with a roof, but since the Huts in the White Mountains are expensive and often avoided by hikers, I'm including campsites and tentsites there in the next two sections.)

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
185........10.........360.......(2.0)........Hanov er - Velvet Rocks
245.......194........297.......(9.5)........Velvet Rocks - Moose Mtn.
312.......368........256.......(5.7)........Moose Mtn. - Trapper John
296.......161........430.......(6.7)........Trappe r John - Firewarden's Cabin
275.......385........166.......(5.3)........Firewa rden's Cabin - Hexacuba (+140 ft.)
296.......321........271.......(7.3)........Hexacu ba - Ore Hill
251.......297........205.......(7.4)........Ore Hill - Glencliff (NH 25)
218........91.........345.......(1.1)........Glenc liff - Jeffers Brook
391.......238........544.......(6.8)........Jeffer s Brook - Beaver Brook
336.......391........281.......(9.1)........Beaver Brook - Eliza Brook
400.......230........570.......(4.0)........Eliza Brook - Kinsman Pond Campsite
453.......716........189.......(1.9)........Kinsma n Pond - Lonesome Lake Hut
255.......483.........28........(2.9)........Lones ome Lake - Franconia Notch (US 3)

Franconia Notch NH - Gorham NH

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
477........15.........938.......(2.6)........Franc onia Notch - Liberty Springs Tentsite
379.......189........568.......(3.8)........Libert y Springs - Greenleaf Hut (-1040 ft.)
441.......605........277.......(3.9)........Greenl eaf - Garfield Ridge Campsite
378.......415........341.......(2.7)........Garfie ld Ridge - Galehead Hut
386.......243........529.......(2.8)........Galehe ad - Guyout Campsite (-440 ft.)
338.......571........105.......(4.2)........Guyout - Zealand Falls Hut
92..........67........117.......(4.8)........Zeala nd Falls - Ethan Pond Campsite
290.......566.........14........(2.9)........Ethan Pond - Crawford Notch (US 302)
316.......119........513.......(6.4)........Crawfo rd Notch - Mizpah Spring Hut, Nauman Tentsite
363.......233........492.......(4.8)........Mizpah Spring - Lake of the Clouds Hut
450.........0.........900.......(1.4)........Lake of the Clouds - Mt. Washington*
351.......473........229.......(4.1)........Mt. Washington - The Perch (-980 ft.)
333.......493........173.......(1.5)........The Perch - Madison Spring Hut, Valley View Tentsite#
590.......980........200.......(3.0)........Madiso n Spring - Osgood Tentsite
227.......275........179.......(4.8)........Osgood - Pinkham Notch (NH 16)
427.......319........536.......(5.9)........Pinkha m Notch - Carter Notch Hut
407.......417........397.......(7.2)........Carter Notch - Imp Campsite
366.......521........210.......(6.1)........Imp - Rattle River
137.......263.........11........(1.9)........Rattl e River - Gorham (US 2)
* Mt Washington does not have overnight shelter
# Madison Spring Hut is beside the trail, but Valley View Tentsite is 900 ft. lower in elevation than the trail

Gorham NH - Stratton ME

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
304.......246........363.......(11.8).......Gorham - Gentian Pond
394.......296........492........(5.2).......Gentia n Pond - Carlo Col
407.......423........391........(4.4).......Carlo Col - Full Goose
359.......322........396........(5.1).......Full Goose - Speck Pond
404.......461........348........(6.9).......Speck Pond - Baldpate
500.......554........446........(3.5).......Baldpa te - Frye Notch
342.......427........258........(4.5).......Frye Notch - Andover (East B-Hill Road)
248.......153........343........(6.0).......Andove r - Hall Mtn.
493.......639........346........(4.1).......Hall Mtn. - Andover (South Arm Road)
343.......264........421........(8.7).......Andove r - Bemis Mtn.
288.......313........263........(8.3).......Bemis Mtn. - Sabbath Day Pond
193.......234........151........(9.4).......Sabbat h Day Pond - Rangeley (ME 4)
167........33.........300........(1.8).......Range ley - Piazza Rock
360.......312........407........(8.9).......Piazza Rock - Poplar Ridge
308.......293........323........(8.0).......Poplar Ridge - Spaulding Mtn.
360.......425........295.......(13.5).......Spauld ing Mtn. - Stratton (ME 27)

Stratton ME - Monson ME

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
320.......145........494.......(5.1)........Stratt on - Horns Pond
375.......441........310......(10.2)........Horns Pond - Little Bigelow
219.......255........184.......(7.3)........Little Bigelow - West Carry Pond
101.......106.........96.......(10.0).......West Carry Pond - Pierce Pond
100.......185.........15........(4.0)........Pierc e Pond - Caratunk (US 201)
139........70.........207.......(5.7)........Carat unk - Pleasant Pond
248.......251........244.......(9.0)........Pleasa nt Pond - Bald Mtn. Brook
359.......361........356.......(4.1)........Bald Mtn. Brook - Moxie Bald
80.........103.........56.......(8.9)........Moxie Bald - Horseshoe Canyon
158.......136........180.......(9.0)........Horses hoe Canyon - Monson (ME 15)

Monson ME - Baxter State Park ME

AVG~~SOBO~~NOBO~~MILES~~~SECTION
163.......187........140.......(3.0)........Monson - Leeman Brook
236.......241........232.......(7.4)........Leeman Brook - Wilson Valley
191.......200........183.......(4.7)........Wilson Valley - Long Pond Stream
300.......105........495.......(4.0)........Long Pond Stream - Cloud Pond (-100 ft.)
287.......328........246.......(6.9)........Cloud Pond - Chairback Gap
197.......202........192.......(9.9)........Chairb ack Gap - Carl A. Newhall
333.......269........397.......(7.2)........Carl A. Newhall - Logan Brook (-220 ft.)
242.......456.........28........(3.6)........Logan Brook - East Branch
173.......193........153.......(8.1)........East Branch - Cooper Brook Falls
79..........92.........66.......(11.4)........Coop er Brook Falls - Potaywadjo Spring
33..........42.........23........(4.3)........Pota ywadjo Spring - Whitehouse Landing
110........97.........124.......(5.8)........White house Landing - Wadleigh Stream
194.......173........215.......(8.1)........Wadlei gh Stream - Rainbow Stream
117.......130........104......(11.5)........Rainbo w Stream - Hurd Brook
120.......137........103.......(3.5)........Hurd Brook - Abol Bridge
89..........65........113.......(9.9)........Abol Bridge - The Birches
404.......404........404......(10.4).......Up and Down Katahdin

(For all of these tables in an Excel spreadsheet, see post #17 in the accompanying thread. Tin Man went to the trouble to convert all of this data into that format. Thank you, Tin Man! In addition, rgarling in post #18 and Hiker Ranky in post #20 show in spreadsheet form how many times and where on the trail NOBO and SOBO hikers had gained elevation the equivalent of going from sea level to the top of Everest!)


METHODOLOGY

If a topographic map has a contour interval of 20 feet there will be a line on the map for every 20 feet of elevation change. As the AT climbs a hill it will continue to cross lines and every time it crossed a contour line I would count it as a change in elevation of 20 feet (or 3 meters or 6 meters or 10 feet or 40 feet -- all five of these intervals are used by the USGS on at least one map covering the AT -- I always had to check what the contour interval was as the trail moved from map to map). Now, if the trail only rises 10 feet before falling again, half the time over the long haul it will not cross a contour line, in the 20 foot interval example. But half the time it will cross a line and will be counted as having risen 20 feet. The longer stretch of trail one follows the more these kinds of examples will even out. So in a very short stretch with only a couple minor up and downs the figure obtained this way could be a bit off. So two shelters spaced very close together have more potential to be a little off due to the randomness of whether the AT line happens to cross an elevation line. But over longer stretches this method (counting contour lines crossed) is VERY accurate.

I took measures to make sure I didn't mis-count. I made a note of the elevation every time the trail crossed a topographic feature like a road or stream or mountain, and then I went back and checked to make sure that my elevation line counts added up. So if I noted an elevation at a mountain top of 2440 feet and after a few ups and downs crossed a stream at 1120 feet, I checked to be sure that my elevation line counts added up to a 1320 foot elevation difference. If the count didn't add up I recounting lines crossed to find out where I made the mistake.

I wrote this down on tally sheets that looked like this:

-20
+20
-40
------Deep Gap (2550 ft.)
+460
-20
+120
-40
+220
------Owl Mtn. (3290 ft.)
-300
+40
etc.

When the trail moved to a new USGS map the first thing I did was compare it to the relevant, and almost always more current, ATC map. My job was easier if the two showed the trail in the same place (this was most likely to happen if the USGS had updated the pertinent AT maps for a trail section within the last ten years), but if the trail had changed since the USGS map was created I plotted whatever the new course was. Most of the time the trail follows easily identifiable ridges and other natural features, though sometimes it took more patience to trace a new course when the trail didn't do this. The trail section from Damascus to Pearisburg VA was particularly trying and time consuming because almost the entire trail had changed between the 50s, 60s, or 70s, (when most of these particular USGS editions were printed) and the present.

[_terrapin_]

Good stuff here. Interesting. Georgia is (was?) harder than I thought...

[Colter]

One good lesson is that the AT is a lot steeper than most people think.

Thanks for taking the time to research all that out and post it here.

[john gault]

Mapman, that's a lot of work! One thing that I hate about the maps are the contour lines, they just seem to represent too few feet making it difficult to use them in the field. The best example of this are the maps for NH. Those are crazy contour lines, they're so compressed, rendering them unreadable. I purchased a map from one of the huts, it's contour lines are 100 ft, much better.

[map man]

John Gault, I know what you mean about the contour lines. When I first saw that the scale of the CT/MA maps was 1:37,500 I thought that at least for those two states I might not need to check the USGS topo maps out of the library, but no! The contour lines were so close together it hurt my head. The base map (which was the USGS topos) had contour intervals of just 10 feet and, of course, they had reduced the size of the maps just over 1.5 times from the USGS originals. Those New Hampshire maps you mentioned also use the USGS 7.5 minute maps as their base, but they are even more compressed!

When it came to looking at the USGS maps I was always much happier looking at the ones with 20 foot, or even better, 40 foot intervals. And luckily these two scales represented most of the AT. But when I hit the few places where the interval was 10 feet or 3 meters (parts of PA, NY, CT and MA come to mind), the lines got so squished together on severe slopes that it was a real eye strain to figure out how many lines had been crossed.

[Sudoku]

Map Man... thank you. Thank you thank you thank you! I was *sort of* toying with the idea of doing something like this to see how much elevation gain I did on each day of my hike... but I never got around to dedicating myself. And I wouldn't have done it nearly so well as you have here! This is professional stuff. You should be very impressed - I am. Like people are saying... I'm surprised at Georgia! Maybe I just expected to be tired then so it wasn't a surprise when I was :).
Thanks again for sharing!

[doodles]

An unbelievable amount of work. Very cool. Real interesting the way you broke every section apart.

Thanks for the research.

[sweatoid]

What a fantastic analysis! Detailed AT work like yours is rare. I like your low-tech approach combined with your knowledge of the AT related to thru/section hiking.

I've been studying 'Mileage - Climb Data Summaries' by James R. Wolf from the Hiking the Appalachian Trail, 1975 (Rodale Press). Wolf used Gross Feet Climbed between points. His data collection efforts included thru-hiking the AT in 1971. The AT was 2007.5 back then. I'm going to create updated summaries to compare the AT from then to now. Unfortunately, I won't be able to thru-hike this year to check my numbers. But one day : )

[LIhikers]

This is good stuff, thanks for all the work!
But I don't understand how the change can be different when going northbound and southbound between the same two points over the same route.
Can anyone explain this to me?

[Groucho]

This is good stuff, thanks for all the work!
But I don't understand how the change can be different when going northbound and southbound between the same two points over the same route.
Can anyone explain this to me?

Unless the starting and ending elevations are the same they would have to be different.

[LIhikers]

But wouldn't the amount of change still be the same?
Let's say shelter A is 100 feet above sea level and shelter B is 200 feet above sea level that's a change of 100 feet no matter which way you go. One direction it is a gain of 100 feet and the other direction is a loss of 100 feet, but still a change of 100 feet either way.
But then again I'm the one who doesn't seem to understand, so maybe not.

[map man]

LIhikers, let's use your example of 100 feet of elevation change, and let's say it's a steady gain of that 100 feet over a mile's distance for a NOBO hiker, with no changes in the angle you are climbing. A NOBO hiker would experience 100 feet/mile of elevation gain, while a SOBO hiker would experience 0 feet of gain per mile. Or to put it another way, if the table says there is 246 feet of elevation GAIN per mile for a NOBO, there is also 246 feet of elevation LOSS per mile for a SOBO in that same stretch.

[LIhikers]

It's still got me confused. I think I'll let it go and come back to it in a month or so. Maybe my thinking will be different enough then for me to understand.

[Groucho]

It's still got me confused. I think I'll let it go and come back to it in a month or so. Maybe my thinking will be different enough then for me to understand.

Maybe a more complex example would help: Imagine a five mile section of trail starting at gap A, climbing to peak 1, descending to gap B and finishing on peak 2. We go north on this trail and return going south. The elevation change from gap A to peak1 is 1000', steadily climbing. We then descend to gap B which involves a 1000' elevation change. Finally, we climb (500' elevation change) to peak 2. Our climb, elevation gain, for the trip is 1500'. Division by the five miles gives us 300' of climb per mile. (note that there is 1000' of descent for the five miles which is 200' feet per mile)

If we were to take the return trip from peak 2 (this would be north to south) we would descend 500' to gap B, climb 1000' to peak 1 and finally descend 1000' to gap A. The climb is 1000', 200' per mile for the five miles. The descent is 1500' or 300' per mile. The average is (200 + 300)/2=250.



Perhaps the headings on the columns of data may be confusing. Look at Table 1 -- Elevation Gain and Loss by Section. If it were Climb and Descent by section, would that help? The Headings SOBO and NOBO might be replaced by Climb/mi. SOBO and Climb/mi. NOBO respectively. Note that the climb/mi. sobo=descent/mi. nobo

In the first Spring er - Neels Gap, Springer is at a higher elevation than Neels Gap. The principles involved in the example above are expandable to any number of peaks from point A to point B.


map man-sorry if i stepped on your toes but the question was asked of anyone, and i have typed too long to delete. if i have stated anything wrong, feel free to correct me.

[JonathanLegare]

Do you have this in a data file, perhaps Excel or OpenOffice, or alternatively a tab-delimited text file? If so, could you post it as an attachment? This is excellent data, and I would like to use it for some hiking projections.

[cutman11]

Just reviewed this. Great stuff as always. Mapman puts Obsessive compulsive guys like me to shame. Amazing!!... It does lend some credence to the thought that those first few days in GA seemed tougher, but not just because we didnt have our trail legs yet. It really was more difficult than what came later.

[map man]

Sorry, JonathanLegare, I don't have this information on a spreadsheet or any other kind of electronic format (other than the posting here at WhiteBlaze). It's written out by hand on many, many sheets of paper.

And cutman11, I've found that one of the best ways of dealing with my own OCD is to channel that obsessiveness into constructive endeavors that at least a few folks other than myself might find useful:D. That's how I came to research and write the couple (let's say "data intensive":eek:) articles that I have for WB.

[Tin Man]

Here you go. I removed most of the descriptive text and preserved the section titles. I did not check for missing or changed data in the reformatting/editing process.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE June 7, 2008 11:44 pm

Anomalies found in the conversion process have been fixed. This was mainly in the detail Table 3. Data in Tables 1 and 2 from previous version were fine.

[rgarling]

With this Excel-ized data, I was able to write a macro to compute the approximate locations of the Everests along the AT. It appears they are located somewhere near the following mile markers (northbound).

102
196
309
413
539
660
776
891
1036
1247
1410
1551
1679
1786
1868
1949
2076

someone should probably check those calculations. :D

[Kerosene]

I had nothing better to do on a Friday evening (how pitiful is that!):

102 - Just south of Franklin (Rock Gap Shelter) [102 trail miles]
196 - Mt. Collins Shelter in GSMNP [94 miles]
309 - Hogback Ridge Shelter [113 miles]
413 - Hampton, TN [104 miles]
539 - Between Davis Path & Knot Maul Branch Shelters (VA) [126 miles]
660 - Between Laurel Creek & Niday Shelters (VA) [121 miles]
776 - Punchbowl Shelter, of National Geographic Fame (VA) [116 miles]
891 - Bearfence Mountain Hut in SNP [115 miles]
1036 - Devil's Racecourse Shelter (MD) [145 miles]
1247 - Leroy A. Smith Shelter (PA) [211 miles]
1410 - North of RPH Shelter (NY) [163 miles]
1551 - North of Dalton, MA [141 miles]
1679 - Killington, VT [128 miles]
1786 - Eliza Brook Shelter (NH) [107 miles]
1868 - Gorham, NH [82 miles]
1949 - Piazza Rock Lean-to (ME) [79 miles]
2076 - Katahdin [127 miles]

So it looks like I still have to cover that tough tough section from Gorham to Piazza Rock. I'd be fine with the elevation change if you could walk it without tripping over a root every other step. At least it's supposed to be beautiful!

[HikerRanky]

Here is someone else that didn't have much to do tonight either, so I took the previous people's work, and changed it around to reflect the Everest points if you start at Katahdin and go SOBO to Springer.....

Mileage markers:

156
258
337
424
539
673
810
1001
1194
1332
1439
1556
1681
1800
1904
2011
2115

[map man]

It's very cool that there are members here at WhiteBlaze willing to go to the trouble to take the tables from my article and convert them into Excel, a more useful form. Thank you, all! They look great. I even went back to edit my article to mention where in the thread the spreadsheets can be found (the note comes right after the last table).

[Tin Man]

Map Man pointed out a few anomalies in the detail Table 3, which occurred during the conversion process. Those have been corrected and I re-posted the revised spreadsheet in the original post #17.

I hope no one ran out of oxygen planning for the wrong Everest. ;)

Oh, and no relocations PLEASE! :)

[Awol2003]

I’ve taken the difference in elevation at 1/10 mile increments and summed the gains and losses. Over any section of trail, this should yield a reasonable number, but the number will always be a little less than actual, because of the dips and peaks that might occur within any of the intervals. Map man's approach is much more precise, but this can be done readily (programmatically) between any two points on the trail.
<O:p</O:p
Over the course of the entire trail, I came up with elevation gain (with equal elevation loss) of approx 492,000 feet. That’s nearer to 17 times the height of Everest.
<O:p</O:p
The first fifteen NOBO miles of the AT (not the approach): Elevation gain 3810 feet, loss 4872 feet.

[perrito]

I've taken the Trimble GPX data from the Backpacker Magazine site for the Delaware Water Gap to Millbrook-Blairstown Road (NJ6) section of the trail and turned it into a spreadsheet. There are 1335 data points, elevations included, for this 13.7 mile long section which averages out to a point about every 54 feet. Traveling in the northbound direction, the data shows a total elevation GAIN of 3306 feet and a total elevation LOSS of 2394 feet. Does this sound correct?

I have the spreadsheet set up to add up all of the elevation gains in one column and all of the elevation losses in another. Pretty simple to do.

It doesn't seem like an excessive amount of work to put this together. If this seems to be information that others would like, I could do it for the whole trail. I'd like some opinions before I go through the effort though.

So what does everyone think?

[cutman11]

Sure...do it....I love data...adds to my OCD brain.

[Carl in FL]

Hi,

I was unable to find the spreadsheet in post #17 so I took the liberty of re-creating it. I am also going to (attempt to) post the original data in columnar form without the spacing dots. If this works, anyone should be able to copy and paste this into a spreadsheet. However I have also attached the data in XLS 97-2003 format.




311 141 482 8.8 Approa ch Trail
100 200 0 0.2 Spri nger Mtn. - Springer Shelter
261 452 70 2.3 Sprin ger Shelter - Stover Creek
239 204 275 5.1 Stover Creek - Hawk Mtn. (+240 ft.)
364 384 345 7.3 Hawk Mtn. - Gooch Mtn.
200 176 224 5.0 Gooch Mtn. - Suches (GA 60)
255 220 290 6.9 Suches - Woods Hole
323 31 615 1.3 Woods Hole - Blood Mtn.
375 650 100 2.4 Blood Mtn. - Neels Gap (US 19)
342 303 381 6.2 Neels Gap - Whitley Gap (-200 ft.)
400 464 336 4.4 Whitle y Gap - Low Gap
239 178 300 7.2 Low Gap - Blue Mtn.
345 564 127 2.2 Blue Mtn. - Helen (GA 75)
382 262 502 5.5 Helen - Tray Mtn.
358 406 310 7.1 Tray Mtn. - Deep Gap
303 434 171 3.5 Deep Gap - Hiawassee (US 76)
321 270 372 4.3 Hiawas see - Plumorchard Gap
293 192 395 7.3 Plumor chard Gap - Muskrat Creek
204 196 212 4.9 Muskra t Creek - Standing Indian
192 195 189 7.6 Standi ng Indian - Carter Gap
188 165 212 6.8 Carter Gap - Big Spring
211 325 98 5.3 Big Spring - Rock Gap
205 211 200 3.8 Rock Gap - Franklin (US 64)
200 76 324 3.7 Frank lin - Siler Bald
289 278 301 12.1 Siler Bald - Cold Spring
269 331 207 5.8 Cold Spring - Wesser Bald
314 506 122 4.9 Wesser Bald - A. Rufus Morgan
525 900 150 0.8 "A. Rufus Morgan - NOC (US 19, 74)"
336 139 533 6.9 NOC - Sassafras Gap
385 418 352 9.1 Sassaf ras Gap - Brown Fork Gap
305 380 230 6.1 Brown Fork Gap - Cable Gap
300 382 218 6.6 Cable Gap - Fontana Dam Shelter
312 188 435 11.3 Fontan a Dam Shelter - Mollies Ridge
328 368 288 2.5 Mollie s Ridge - Russell Field
193 110 276 2.9 Russel l Field - Spence Field
394 394 394 6.3 Spence Field - Derrick Knob
302 247 356 5.5 Derric k Knob - Silers Bald
271 259 282 1.7 Silers Bald - Double Spring Gap
292 260 324 6.3 Double Spring Gap - Mt. Collins
231 329 133 4.5 Mt. Collins - Gatlinburg (US 441)
240 93 387 3.0 Gatli nburg - Icewater Spring
262 286 238 7.4 Icewat er Spring - Peck's Corner (-270 ft.)
277 238 315 5.2 Peck's Corner - Tri-Corner Knob
197 270 125 7.7 Tri-Corner Knob - Cosby Knob (-130 ft.)
276 428 124 7.1 Cosby Knob - Davenport Gap
321 461 182 3.3 Davenp ort Gap - Green Corner Road
342 261 422 7.2 Green Corner Road - Groundhog Creek
234 166 302 8.2 Ground hog Creek - Roaring Fork
253 229 278 4.9 Roarin g Fork - Walnut Mtn.
275 372 178 9.9 Walnut Mtn. - Deer Park Mtn.
275 437 113 3.2 Deer Park Mtn. - Hot Springs NC
278 175 382 11.0 Hot Springs - Spring Mtn.
284 279 288 8.6 Spring Mtn. - Little Laurel
215 176 253 6.8 Little Laurel - Jerry Cabin
261 312 210 5.9 Jerry Cabin - Flint Mtn.
305 268 341 8.8 Flint Mtn. - Hogback Ridge
300 260 340 10.0 Hogbac k Ridge - Bald Mtn.
289 374 204 10.6 Bald Mtn. - No Business Knob
206 330 83 6.3 No Business Knob - Erwin TN
205 38 371 4.2 Erwin - Curley Maple Gap
269 233 305 12.2 Curley Maple Gap - Cherry Gap
296 290 301 6.9 Cherry Gap - Greasy Creek Gap
189 84 295 1.9 Greasy Creek Gap - Clyde Smith
388 250 525 6.4 Clyde Smith - Roan High Knob
258 375 142 4.8 Roan High Knob - Stan Murray
282 400 165 1.7 Stan Murray - Overmountain
305 405 205 8.2 Overmo untain - Apple House
240 400 80 0.5 Appl e House - Elk Park (US 19E)
273 239 307 8.2 Elk Park - Mounaineer
227 206 248 9.5 Mounta ineer - Moreland Gap
318 420 216 6.1 Morela nd Gap - Dennis Cove Road
221 379 63 1.9 Denni s Cove Road - Laurel Fork (+250 ft.)
320 320 320 7.0 Laurel Fork - Hampton (US 321)
122 111 133 1.8 Hampto n - Watauga Lake Shelter
344 235 453 6.8 Wataug a Lake Shelter - Vandeventer
221 182 259 6.8 Vandev enter - Iron Mtn.
163 158 168 7.6 Iron Mtn. - Double Springs
222 241 202 8.3 Double Springs - Abingdon Gap
198 292 104 10.0 Abingd on Gap - Damascus VA
283 209 357 9.4 Damasc us - Saunders
269 263 275 6.4 Saunde rs - Lost Mtn.
223 141 305 12.2 Lost Mtn. - Thomas Knob
188 290 86 5.1 Thoma s Knob - Wise
180 203 160 5.9 Wise - Old Orchard
232 248 216 5.0 Old Orchard - Hurricane Mtn.
218 268 167 9.1 Hurric ane Mtn. - Trimpi
197 185 209 10.6 Trimpi - Partnership
263 270 256 7.1 Partne rship - Chatfield
191 271 111 4.5 Chatfi eld - Atkins (US 11)
189 111 267 2.7 Atkins - Davis Path
315 314 316 11.2 Davis Path - Knot Maul
282 196 369 9.0 Knot Maul - Chestnut Knob
260 360 160 10.0 Chestn ut Knob - Jenkins
240 219 261 11.5 Jenkin s - Bland (US 21/52)
296 243 348 2.3 Bland - Helveys Mill
197 214 180 9.8 Helvey s Mill - Jenny Knob
180 187 172 14.2 Jenny Knob - Wapiti
205 148 262 8.4 Wapiti - Doc's Knob
248 361 136 8.7 Doc's Knob - Pearisburg (US 460)
248 110 387 6.2 Pearis burg - Rice Field
220 252 189 12.3 Rice Field - Pine Swamp Branch
267 138 395 3.9 Pine Swamp Branch - Bailey Gap
163 230 95 8.8 Baile y Gap - War Spur
334 303 366 5.8 War Spur - Laurel Creek
275 222 328 6.4 Laurel Creek - Sarver Hollow
205 337 73 6.0 Sarver Hollow - Niday
260 251 269 9.9 Niday - Pickle Branch
292 294 290 12.6 Pickle Branch - Catawba (VA 311)
280 300 260 1.0 Catawb a - Johns Spring
210 80 340 1.0 Johns Spring - Catawba Mtn.
354 267 442 2.4 Catawb a Mtn. - Campbell
250 293 207 6.0 Campbe ll - Lamberts Meadow
241 285 198 9.4 Lamber ts Meadow - Daleville (US 220)
272 132 412 5.0 Dalevi lle - Fullhardt Knob
289 355 223 6.2 Fullha rdt Knob - Wilson Creek
186 167 205 7.3 Wilson Creek - Bobblets Gap
219 231 206 6.4 Bobble ts Gap - Cove. Mtn.
307 354 261 6.9 Cove Mtn. - Bryant Ridge
328 148 508 5.0 Bryant Ridge - Cornelius Creek
294 211 377 5.3 Cornel ius Creek - Thunder Hill
263 390 135 12.4 Thunde r Hill - Matts Creek
73 109 36 2.2 Matts Creek - Glasgow (US 501)
247 118 376 1.7 Glasgo w - Johns Hollow
305 223 386 8.8 Johns Hollow - Punchbowl
240 303 177 9.5 Punchb owl - Brown Mtn. Creek
311 136 486 5.6 Brown Mtn. Creek - Cow Camp Gap (-150 ft.)
251 227 275 10.2 Cow Camp Gap - Seeley-Woodworth
287 284 290 6.9 Seeley-Woodworth - The Priest
368 508 227 7.4 The Priest - Harpers Creek
368 287 448 6.2 Harper s Creek - Maupin Field
196 230 162 15.8 Maupin Field - Paul C. Wolfe
216 192 240 5.0 Paul C. Wolfe - Waynesboro (US 250)
211 154 269 7.0 Waynes boro - Calf Mtn.
237 240 234 13.0 Calf. Mtn. - Blackrock Hut
138 92 184 7.4 Black rock - Loft Mtn. Campground
252 324 179 5.8 Loft Mtn. - Pinefield Hut
215 171 259 8.2 Pinefi eld - Hightop Hut
226 215 236 11.7 Highto p - Lewis Mtn. Campground
200 343 57 0.7 Lewi s Mtn. - Bearfence Mtn. Hut (-100 ft.)
158 130 185 8.0 Bearfe nce Mtn. - Big Meadows Campground
194 217 171 3.5 Big Meadows - Rock Spring Hut
217 241 193 15.3 Rock Spring - Pass Mtn. Hut (-100 ft.)
215 221 209 13.1 Pass Mtn. - Gravel Springs Hut
210 246 175 10.5 Gravel Springs - Tom Floyd Wayside
303 462 145 2.9 Tom Floyd - Front Royal (US 522)
187 154 219 5.2 Front Royal - Jim and Molly Denton
242 211 273 5.5 Jim and Molly Denton - Manassas Gap
205 241 168 4.4 Manass as Gap - Dick's Dome (-100 ft.)
185 210 160 8.4 Dick's Dome - Rod Hollow
326 325 328 6.9 Rod Hollow - Sam Moore
343 280 407 3.0 Sam Moore - Bear's Den Hostel
227 203 251 7.9 Bear's Den - Blackburn Trail Center (-300 ft.)
159 200 119 3.2 Blackb urn Trail Center - David Lesser
160 221 99 9.5 David Lesser - Harpers Ferry WV
95 32 159 6.3 Harpe rs Ferry - Ed Garvey
149 141 156 4.1 Ed Garvey - Crampton Gap (-130 ft.)
168 184 152 5.0 Crampt on Gap - Rocky Run
117 89 144 1.8 Rocky Run - Dahlgren Backpack Campground
181 147 214 5.7 Dahlgr en - Pine Knob
161 168 154 8.2 Pine Knob - Ensign Cowell
220 188 253 4.9 Ensign Cowell - Devils Racecourse (-170 ft.)
179 192 167 9.6 Devils Racecourse - Deer Lick
158 267 50 2.4 Deer Lick - Antietam
92 0 183 1.2 Anti etam - Tumbling Run
160 146 174 12.2 Tumbli ng Run - Quarry Gap
147 124 170 7.4 Quarry Gap - Birch Run
123 161 84 6.2 Birch Run - Toms Run
105 168 43 3.7 Toms Run - Pine Grove Furnace State Park
125 133 117 7.2 Pine Grove Furnace - James Frye (Tagg Run)
190 183 198 8.3 James Frye - Alec Kennedy
167 215 118 3.9 Alec Kennedy - Boiling Springs PA
85 60 109 14.3 Boili ng Springs - Darlington
166 163 168 7.3 Darlin gton - Cove Mtn.
160 268 52 4.0 Cove Mtn. - Duncannon PA
141 61 222 4.6 Dunca nnon - Clarks Ferry
132 126 138 6.8 Clarks Ferry - Peters Mtn.
142 146 137 17.5 Peters Mtn. - Rausch Gap
171 156 186 13.3 Rausch Gap - William Penn
122 117 127 4.1 Willia m Penn - 501 Shelter
72 68 77 15.1 501 - Eagle's Nest
136 205 67 8.6 Eagle 's Nest - Port Clinton PA
200 161 239 6.1 Port Clinton - Windsor Furnace
130 143 116 9.1 Windso r Furnace - Eckville Shelter
136 73 200 7.4 Eckvi lle - Allentown Hiking Club
102 110 94 10.0 Allen town Hiking Club - Bake Oven Knob
121 153 88 6.8 Bake Oven Knob - George W. Outerbridge
356 667 44 0.9 Oute rbridge - Palmerton (PA 248)
116 84 148 15.8 Palmer ton - Leroy A. Smith
139 191 87 4.6 Leroy A. Smith - Wind Gap (PA 33)
98 70 126 9.2 Wind Gap - Kirkridge
174 264 85 6.6 Kirkr idge - Delaware Water Gap PA
165 118 196 10.3 DWG - Mohican Outdoor Center
153 151 155 14.3 Mohica n Outdoor Center - Brink Road
170 158 182 6.6 Brink Road Shelter - Gren Anderson
153 145 162 5.8 Gren Anderson - Mashipacong
138 152 124 2.9 Maship acong - Rutherford
179 186 172 4.3 Ruther ford - High Point
128 189 68 5.3 High Point - Secret Shelter
125 113 138 7.1 Secret Shelter - Pochuck Mtn.
174 203 145 6.5 Pochuc k Mtn. - Vernon (NJ 94)
213 143 283 5.3 Vernon - Wawayanda
169 175 163 12.0 Wawaya nda - Wildcat
257 248 267 14.3 Wildca t - Fingerboard
175 200 151 5.3 Finger board - William Brien
352 335 368 3.1 Willia m Brien - West Mtn.
257 345 169 5.8 West Mtn. - Bear Mtn. Bridge
235 203 267 6.3 Bear Mtn. Bridge - Graymoor Center
232 239 225 16.9 Graymo or Center - RPH
221 167 274 9.0 RPH - Morgan Stewart
195 221 170 7.6 Morgan Stewart - Telephone Pioneers
329 571 86 0.7 Telep hone Pioneers - Pawling (County 20)
173 166 180 8.0 Pawlin g - Wiley
241 288 195 4.0 Wiley - Ten Mile River
242 219 264 8.4 Ten Mile River - Mt. Algo
617 1133 100 0.3 Mt. Algo - Kent (CT 341)
200 197 203 7.0 Kent - Stewart Hollow Brook
238 204 271 10.0 Stewar t Hollow Brook - Pine Swamp Brook
181 172 190 12.3 Pine Swamp Brook - Limestone Spring (-330 ft.)
204 303 106 3.3 Limest one Spring - Salisbury (US 44)
176 62 289 4.2 Salis bury - Riga
133 100 167 1.2 Riga - Brassie Brook
252 240 265 8.8 "Brassi e Brook - Hemlocks, Glen Brook"
184 197 172 14.4 "Hemloc ks, Glen Brook - Tom Leonard"
215 350 80 2.0 Tom Leonard - Great Barrington (MA 23)
262 158 367 3.3 Great Barrington - Mt. Wilcox South
219 219 122 1.8 Mt. Wilcox South - Mt. Wilcox North (-120 ft.)
200 216 184 14.0 Mt. Wilcox North - Upper Goose Pond Cabin (-110 ft.)
197 182 211 8.8 Upper Goose Pond Cabin - October Mtn.
120 123 118 8.8 Octobe r Mtn. - Kay Wood
237 353 120 3.0 Kay Wood - Dalton MA
197 207 186 8.6 Dalton - Cheshire MA
220 43 396 5.1 Chesh ire - Mark Noepel
261 297 224 6.6 Mark Noepel - Wilbur Clearing
347 620 73 3.0 Wilbu r Clearing - North Adams (MA 2)
214 104 325 6.9 North Adams - Seth Warner
290 296 285 5.2 Seth Warner - Congdon
266 237 295 5.9 Congdo n - Melville Nauheim
211 144 278 8.5 Melvil le Nauheim - Goddard
240 330 149 4.3 Goddar d - Kid Gore
185 183 187 4.6 Kid Gore - Story Spring
248 259 236 10.5 Story Spring - Stratton Pond
129 158 100 4.8 Stratt on Pond - William B. Douglas
160 160 160 3.0 Willia m B. Douglas - Spruce Peak
232 307 157 2.8 Spruce Peak - Manchester Center (VT 11)
247 210 283 10.1 Manche ster Center - Peru Peak
143 183 102 4.7 Peru Peak - Long Pond
218 435 0 1.7 Long Pond - Big Branch
130 67 193 3.0 Big Branch - Lula Tye
29 29 29 0.7 Lula Tye - Little Rock Pond
186 150 223 4.4 Little Rock Pond - Greenwall (-180 ft.)
316 373 259 5.1 Greenw all - Minerva Hinchey
335 384 286 3.7 Minerv a Hinchey - Clarendon
166 118 215 6.8 Claren don - Governor Clement
267 37 498 4.3 Gover nor Clement - Cooper Lodge
168 256 80 2.5 Coope r Lodge - Pico Camp
311 547 74 1.9 Pico Camp - Churchill Scott
237 411 63 1.9 Churc hill Scott - Rutland (US 4)
200 20 380 1.0 Rutla nd - Tucker Johnson (Long Trail Junction)
308 358 258 9.0 Tucker Johnson - Stony Brook
269 232 305 9.9 Stony Brook - Wintturi (-160 ft.)
332 347 317 11.6 Winttu ri - Thistle Hill
277 295 259 8.8 Thistl e Hill - Happy Hill
179 275 83 5.3 Happy Hill - Hanover NH
185 10 360 2.0 Hanov er - Velvet Rocks
245 194 297 9.5 Velvet Rocks - Moose Mtn.
312 368 256 5.7 Moose Mtn. - Trapper John
296 161 430 6.7 Trappe r John - Firewarden's Cabin
275 385 166 5.3 Firewa rden's Cabin - Hexacuba (+140 ft.)
296 321 271 7.3 Hexacu ba - Ore Hill
251 297 205 7.4 Ore Hill - Glencliff (NH 25)
218 91 345 1.1 Glenc liff - Jeffers Brook
391 238 544 6.8 Jeffer s Brook - Beaver Brook
336 391 281 9.1 Beaver Brook - Eliza Brook
400 230 570 4.0 Eliza Brook - Kinsman Pond Campsite
453 716 189 1.9 Kinsma n Pond - Lonesome Lake Hut
255 483 28 2.9 Lones ome Lake - Franconia Notch (US 3)
477 15 938 2.6 Franc onia Notch - Liberty Springs Tentsite
379 189 568 3.8 Libert y Springs - Greenleaf Hut (-1040 ft.)
441 605 277 3.9 Greenl eaf - Garfield Ridge Campsite
378 415 341 2.7 Garfie ld Ridge - Galehead Hut
386 243 529 2.8 Galehe ad - Guyout Campsite (-440 ft.)
338 571 105 4.2 Guyout - Zealand Falls Hut
92 67 117 4.8 Zeala nd Falls - Ethan Pond Campsite
290 566 14 2.9 Ethan Pond - Crawford Notch (US 302)
316 119 513 6.4 "Crawfo rd Notch - Mizpah Spring Hut, Nauman Tentsite"
363 233 492 4.8 Mizpah Spring - Lake of the Clouds Hut
450 0 900 1.4 Lake of the Clouds - Mt. Washington*
351 473 229 4.1 Mt. Washington - The Perch (-980 ft.)
333 493 173 1.5 "The Perch - Madison Spring Hut, Valley View Tentsite#"
590 980 200 3.0 Madiso n Spring - Osgood Tentsite
227 275 179 4.8 Osgood - Pinkham Notch (NH 16)
427 319 536 5.9 Pinkha m Notch - Carter Notch Hut
407 417 397 7.2 Carter Notch - Imp Campsite
366 521 210 6.1 Imp - Rattle River
137 263 11 1.9 Rattl e River - Gorham (US 2)
304 246 363 11.8 Gorham - Gentian Pond
394 296 492 5.2 Gentia n Pond - Carlo Col
407 423 391 4.4 Carlo Col - Full Goose
359 322 396 5.1 Full Goose - Speck Pond
404 461 348 6.9 Speck Pond - Baldpate
500 554 446 3.5 Baldpa te - Frye Notch
342 427 258 4.5 Frye Notch - Andover (East B-Hill Road)
248 153 343 6.0 Andove r - Hall Mtn.
493 639 346 4.1 Hall Mtn. - Andover (South Arm Road)
343 264 421 8.7 Andove r - Bemis Mtn.
288 313 263 8.3 Bemis Mtn. - Sabbath Day Pond
193 234 151 9.4 Sabbat h Day Pond - Rangeley (ME 4)
167 33 300 1.8 Range ley - Piazza Rock
360 312 407 8.9 Piazza Rock - Poplar Ridge
308 293 323 8.0 Poplar Ridge - Spaulding Mtn.
360 425 295 13.5 Spauld ing Mtn. - Stratton (ME 27)
320 145 494 5.1 Stratt on - Horns Pond
375 441 310 10.2 Horns Pond - Little Bigelow
219 255 184 7.3 Little Bigelow - West Carry Pond
101 106 96 10.0 West Carry Pond - Pierce Pond
100 185 15 4.0 Pierc e Pond - Caratunk (US 201)
139 70 207 5.7 Carat unk - Pleasant Pond
248 251 244 9.0 Pleasa nt Pond - Bald Mtn. Brook
359 361 356 4.1 Bald Mtn. Brook - Moxie Bald
80 103 56 8.9 Moxie Bald - Horseshoe Canyon
158 136 180 9.0 Horses hoe Canyon - Monson (ME 15)
163 187 140 3.0 Monson - Leeman Brook
236 241 232 7.4 Leeman Brook - Wilson Valley
191 200 183 4.7 Wilson Valley - Long Pond Stream
300 105 495 4.0 Long Pond Stream - Cloud Pond (-100 ft.)
287 328 246 6.9 Cloud Pond - Chairback Gap
197 202 192 9.9 Chairb ack Gap - Carl A. Newhall
333 269 397 7.2 Carl A. Newhall - Logan Brook (-220 ft.)
242 456 28 3.6 Logan Brook - East Branch
173 193 153 8.1 East Branch - Cooper Brook Falls
79 92 66 11.4 Coop er Brook Falls - Potaywadjo Spring
33 42 23 4.3 Pota ywadjo Spring - Whitehouse Landing
110 97 124 5.8 White house Landing - Wadleigh Stream
194 173 215 8.1 Wadlei gh Stream - Rainbow Stream
117 130 104 11.5 Rainbo w Stream - Hurd Brook
120 137 103 3.5 Hurd Brook - Abol Bridge
89 65 113 9.9 Abol Bridge - The Birches
404 404 404 10.4 Up and Down Katahdin










If anyone considers it mandatory to have the sectional headers put back in, let me know.

[map man]

Hey, Carl in FL, thanks for doing this. It looks great!

[Carl in FL]

My pleasure. I have time to do stuff like that.

[Carl in FL]

Here's something I'd like to hear opinions about, and I apologize if this has been beat to death previously.

Assuming the 2011 Trail is 2181.0 "map" miles (not taking elevation changes into account), and assuming Steve's data here is accurate for the 2011 Trail (it probably is within 0.01%), then how much does the total length increase when we DO take elevation change into account?

I would use the Pythagorean Theorem (square root of the sum of the squares), using 2181 miles as one side of the triangle, and total elevation gain and loss (roughly twice the 97.3 miles) as another side of the triangle.

Is this the right approach?

[Awol2003]

Using the pythagorean theorem on the cumulative distance and elevation change will not give the total length added by elevation change. You'd have to do it for each leg of trail that you want to categorize with a given slope. But the computation is not needed, 'cause the official total trail distance is determined by measuring the actual walking distance. That is, it already accounts for mileage gained because of going up and down mountains.

[Sly]

Here's something I'd like to hear opinions about, and I apologize if this has been beat to death previously.

Assuming the 2011 Trail is 2181.0 "map" miles (not taking elevation changes into account), and assuming Steve's data here is accurate for the 2011 Trail (it probably is within 0.01%), then how much does the total length increase when we DO take elevation change into account?

?

Huh? The "map" mileage from Denver to Durango is 337.32, it doesn't change due to elevation. Same thing.

[Carl in FL]

Using the pythagorean theorem on the cumulative distance and elevation change will not give the total length added by elevation change. You'd have to do it for each leg of trail that you want to categorize with a given slope. But the computation is not needed, 'cause the official total trail distance is determined by measuring the actual walking distance. That is, it already accounts for mileage gained because of going up and down mountains.

Interesting, thanks. By my calculations, a 10% grade (say a 500 ft rise in a mile) will add about 25 walking feet over what it would be were it flat. Is that close to your thinking or am I still missing something?

[Awol2003]

Interesting, thanks. By my calculations, a 10% grade (say a 500 ft rise in a mile) will add about 25 walking feet over what it would be were it flat. Is that close to your thinking or am I still missing something?

Yes, 23.62 feet added. The problem with trying do cumulative calculation: imagine after walking this mile at 10%, you walked another mile on a flat ridge. Then do the math for a walk covering 2 miles;


Distance added = SQRT ( (5280 + 5280) ** 2 + 500 ** 2) ) - 10560
Distance added = 11.83 ft

You've "lost" distance. Which is deduced more intuitively by drawing the "profile" lines for the walk vs. the "hypotenuse" of the cumulative computation (straight line is shortest distance).

[Carl in FL]

Thank you. That is an excellent explanation and fully penetrated my density.
It would also seem that the smaller the increment, the more the Trail will grow in length.
There's a practical solution, I am sure. Let me think about that.

[Brewerbob]

I just received my AT map in the mail today. I was reading this thread earlier today and I have to ask... has ayone put together a list of the steepest grades (both ascents and descents)? MapMans info is great but it's deceiving. Being that I live in MD, I started looking there first. MD has 3 "red" sections and 2 "orange" sections of trail. Yet when I look at his data, MD is nothing special. Every shows less than 200 foot gains. The section from Tom's Run to Pine Grove is 168 ft over 3.7 miles. That's a lot different than the Birch Run to Tom's Run of 161 ft in 6.2 miles.

.

At this point I'm not even really a section hiker. 2 weeks ago I did the I-70 to Washington Monument "section". 3 miles there and then back. Took me 3 hrs including the wandering around and picking raspberries. My camera and lenses weigh about 6.5 lbs. I thought I was doing pretty good.

.

Then this past weekend, I did the "section" from Pine Grove Furnance to Pole Steeple Overlook and back on the Mountian Creek trail. If I measured the map correctly (with a little piece of sting) it was just under 8 miles. The difference this time is I was carrying a 35lb backpack. My shoulders were toast.

.

So, I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has put together a list of ascents/descents either in a single mile or better yet valley to peak.

[map man]

Brewerbob, you are right, since I concentrate on the elevation gain and loss from shelter to shelter (with some major road crossings thrown in) there is no specific mention of some shorter steeper sections within these shelter-to-shelter sections. By anecdote and by perusing the elevation profiles on many of the maps, the first mile a SOBO would encounter starting shortly after Kinsman Notch and extending to just short of Beaver Brook Shelter (this is in the White Mountains in New Hampshire) rises 1800 feet in a little under a mile (if you extend another mile to the top of Mt. Blue you get a two mile stretch with 2600 feet of rise.). Another SOBO mile in the White Mountains starting around Osgood Campsite also rises 1800 feet in just under a mile. These seem to be the steepest individual miles on the AT.

For sections longer than a mile there is the NOBO 2.5 mile stretch on Katahdin (Katahdin Stream Falls to "The Gateway") near the northern terminus that rises 3000 feet, in addition to the two mile section near Kinsman Notch that I already mentioned. Katahdin also accounts for the greatest elevation difference between valley and peak on the AT with a rise of just over 4000 feet in a little over five miles between Katahdin Stream Campground and Baxter Peak.

And the steepest bit of trail in Maryland I can find is the .6 miles a NOBO would hike right after MD 491 which rises around 600 feet (the Raven Rocks section).

[Brewerbob]

Brewerbob, you are right, since I concentrate on the elevation gain and loss from shelter to shelter (with some major road crossings thrown in) I miss reporting on some shorter steeper sections within these shelter-to-shelter sections. Don't take this as not appreciating your hard work but I figured there had to be some geek out there like you ;) or some satellite radar map somewhere that's already mapped out every rise and fall of the A.T. to within 6 inches or something.

Even shelter to shelter or a single mile doesn't give a true picture. If shelter to shelter rises 6,000 and then drops 5900 feet there's only a change of 100 feet. Slightly more difficult to hike than a 6 mile stretch of pavement that rises the same 100 feet. I have knees that are on the way out. I hate going down the hills, especially ones with all kinds of rocks. Which brings up another question...

I already know the answer to the question and it's far too subjective anyway but here goes... Has anyone mapped out the sections for ease of walking? The first mile out of Pine Grove Furnance is a paved bike trail. Even if it was a steep slope, that's easier going than a flat trail littered with rocks. I need thicker, better, something boots to protect my soft supple feets.:p

Someone should do a thru hike and video record the entire trail and then go back and map out the sections with all of this. I nominate MapMan.:D

[Carl in FL]

Someone should do a thru hike and video record the entire trail and then go back and map out the sections with all of this. I nominate MapMan.:D



Tell you what. You carry the battery packs and I'll roll the measuring wheel.
However, any movie longer than Transformers 3 is not going to be a big hit.

[Brewerbob]

Tell you what. You carry the battery packs and I'll roll the measuring wheel.
However, any movie longer than Transformers 3 is not going to be a big hit.Video is only to take back to the office as field notes. Section 1034.8 to 1038.9 is extremely rocky. Click here for 30 second video. Section 1469.9 -1470.5 is a steep incline. Click here for picture. That kind of thing.

[ChillyWilly]

I took the previous people's work, and changed it around to reflect the Everest points...

What do you mean by "Everest Points?"



Clueless in Michigan

[Brewerbob]

What do you mean by "Everest Points?"



Clueless in MichiganHighest peaks.

[Sly]

What do you mean by "Everest Points?"



Clueless in Michigan

Minus the thin air, it's every time you do 29,029' in elevation, you've climbed the equivalent of Everest.

So when you're talking to your non-hiking friend and say you hiked the Appalachian Trail, it's the same as climbing Everest 17 times! They go "WOW!"

[Carl in FL]

Using the pythagorean theorem on the cumulative distance and elevation change will not give the total length added by elevation change. You'd have to do it for each leg of trail that you want to categorize with a given slope. But the computation is not needed, 'cause the official total trail distance is determined by measuring the actual walking distance. That is, it already accounts for mileage gained because of going up and down mountains.

I am not after anyone's trade secrets, and you can answer this in a PM if that's better, but Regis, I'd like a clue.
Could you be so kind as to tell me what the current length of the Trail is without compensating for elevation changes?

I'm getting some weird readings here, Captain. Must be alien interference....

[Awol2003]

...So, I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has put together a list of ascents/descents either in a single mile or better yet valley to peak.

This is the result of a programmatic search of the trail data, looking for the steepest half-mile long segment of trail (uphill, northbound). Many of these segments are on the early part of the climb up the mountain (Wildcat, Moody). Looking for longer segments (say a mile) would exclude Moody and a few others.
Top ten (number shown is approx miles from Springer):
1863 Wildcat
2179 Katahdin
1821 South Twin Mtn
1932 Moody Mtn
1896 Mt. Success
1986 South Crocker Mtn
1908 Mahoosuc Arm
1811 Liberty Springs Trail
1935 Old Blue
1250 Up from Lehigh River

[Awol2003]

I am not after anyone's trade secrets, and you can answer this in a PM if that's better, but Regis, I'd like a clue.
Could you be so kind as to tell me what the current length of the Trail is without compensating for elevation changes?

I'm getting some weird readings here, Captain. Must be alien interference....

I did some "thumbnail calculations" about a year ago. I don't remember the exact number, but elevation change adds a relatively small amount, maybe 20-40 miles. This number is not easy to calculate with any accuracy. It'd take a long answer to describe why, but basically it is a small part of a larger number (the full trail distance) that cannot be measured with precision.

[Brewerbob]

This is the result of a programmatic search of the trail data, looking for the steepest half-mile long segment of trail (uphill, northbound). Many of these segments are on the early part of the climb up the mountain (Wildcat, Moody). Looking for longer segments (say a mile) would exclude Moody and a few others. Top ten (number shown is approx miles from Springer):1863 Wildcat2179 Katahdin1821 South Twin Mtn1932 Moody Mtn1896 Mt. Success1986 South Crocker Mtn1908 Mahoosuc Arm1811 Liberty Springs Trail1935 Old Blue1250 Up from Lehigh RiverWhere is this trail data?
I did some "thumbnail calculations" about a year ago. I don't remember the exact number, but elevation change adds a relatively small amount, maybe 20-40 miles. This number is not easy to calculate with any accuracy. It'd take a long answer to describe why, but basically it is a small part of a larger number (the full trail distance) that cannot be measured with precision.If you have the data from the topo maps especially the ones with 20 foot segments that someone was complaining about, then you would have the data points for plotting the length with elevation changes. The "flat" length data would be easy enough to get from Google maps or something.

[Awol2003]

Brewerbob; I publish "The A.T. Guide" (www.theATguide.com (http://www.theATguide.com)). I have data for the trail I use to create the elevation profiles that appear in the book. I also use it for determining mileage to landmarks along the way. It is mostly GPS-acquired data, and there is a significant amount of post-processing done on the data to smooth it and conform it to ATC's mileage data.

Yes, calculation of the distance added by elevation change is easy. The qualifier "with any accuracy" is what is difficult...and I probably should choose another word instead of "difficult"...maybe "meaningless". I still want to avoid a long answer, but what I was hinting at is that the measurement of any walking trail over an irregular surface is an approximation, not a fact. I included some slides on the reasons for this in a presentation at Trail Days this year. A trail as long (and changing) as the AT could be re-measured with a result ranging +/- 20 miles, and the measurement wouldn't be "wrong," just different. So, it's hard to give any import to the distance added by elevation changes when it is on par with acceptable variance in the overall trail length.

[Kerosene]

Top ten (number shown is approx miles from Springer):
1863 Wildcat
2179 Katahdin
1821 South Twin Mtn
1932 Moody Mtn
1896 Mt. Success
1986 South Crocker Mtn
1908 Mahoosuc Arm
1811 Liberty Springs Trail
1935 Old Blue
1250 Up from Lehigh RiverThat's just great...7 of the Top 10 are north of Pinkham Notch, which I still have to cover!
I'd be curious to know how steep and long these climbs are, perhaps as a percent gradient. I'd also be interested in knowing where the climb up South Kinsman ranks, which I thought was much worse than the climb up South Twin or Liberty Springs.

[Sly]

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong but the "official" trail mileage is measured with a wheel and is 2,181 miles. You walk a mile and it's a mile regardless of elevation.

[Carl in FL]

All of this makes sense, and I understand the part about "difficulty/meaningless" for one component (elevation change) being buried in the noise (+/- measurement error). I am sure if we wheeled the Trail side by side we'd get a differential. A part of this concerns me though:

there is a significant amount of post-processing done on the data to smooth it and conform it to ATC's mileage data.

Smoothing the data is great; I am doing some fun things with interpolation based on data sampling through switchbacks and oxbows. GPS tracks are the minimum distance possible, and the walk is always something longer. What sounds potentially counter-productive is "conforming" the data to another estimate. While the ATC mileage data might be considered the industry benchmark or bible, conforming one estimate to agree with another appears to be a step backwards in refining the data. Since nobody is perfect, there must be some place where your data should be corrective to the ATC, and vice versa.

Perhaps I am reading more into this than proper. I admit I am bothered by the uncertainty of the Trail length given the technology we have in our hands today, literally measuring things against the speed of light. Probably we disagree on what is the "acceptable variance". 0.1% error (about two miles) in the "map" distance would keep me happy; I am more ambivalent about the elevation factor because I am still ignorant about the refinements possible and/or practical.

I'd love to discuss data post-processing further, although I realize this is a hiking forum and not a geek forum. But I wanted to thank you for your contributions in this thread, along with the incredible amount of information in the A.T. Guide. If I can contribute anything original and helpful toward the goal of narrowing the uncertainty I would post it for all to use.

[Carl in FL]

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong but the "official" trail mileage is measured with a wheel and is 2,181 miles. You walk a mile and it's a mile regardless of elevation.

You snuck in there while I was pecking away. When was the last time the Trail was "wheeled"?

[john gault]

Perhaps I am reading more into this than proper. I admit I am bothered by the uncertainty of the Trail length given the technology we have in our hands today, literally measuring things against the speed of light. Probably we disagree on what is the "acceptable variance". 0.1% error (about two miles) in the "map" distance would keep me happy; I am more ambivalent about the elevation factor because I am still ignorant about the refinements possible and/or practical.
Technology does not flow like fluid, i.e. it can do a lot of fantastic things, but those advancements are fragmented. You see it time and again when we make certain advances and people think, well this will solve so many problems...

Can't tell you how many times the military thought Dog Fighting was a thing of the past due to inovations in technology.

[Brewerbob]

Brewerbob; I publish "The A.T. Guide" (www.theATguide.com (http://www.theATguide.com)). I have data for the trail I use to create the elevation profiles that appear in the book. I also use it for determining mileage to landmarks along the way. It is mostly GPS-acquired data, and there is a significant amount of post-processing done on the data to smooth it and conform it to ATC's mileage data.

Yes, calculation of the distance added by elevation change is easy. The qualifier "with any accuracy" is what is difficult...and I probably should choose another word instead of "difficult"...maybe "meaningless". I still want to avoid a long answer, but what I was hinting at is that the measurement of any walking trail over an irregular surface is an approximation, not a fact. I included some slides on the reasons for this in a presentation at Trail Days this year. A trail as long (and changing) as the AT could be re-measured with a result ranging +/- 20 miles, and the measurement wouldn't be "wrong," just different. So, it's hard to give any import to the distance added by elevation changes when it is on par with acceptable variance in the overall trail length.Oh, ok. You're definition and mine of "exact" is different then. Of course if you're an an and have to crawl over a rock you're distance is going to be different than if someone kicked the rock out of your way. Yeah, that's a bit extreme. But the same can be applied to if you (as a person) zigzag across the trail to avoid the rough spots.

I was going with the assumption that everyone is walking the centerline of the trail and the trail stays put. Your calculated distance should be a hell of a lot more accurate than +/-20 miles. And of course if the trail is relocated it'll change the mileage. At that point all bets would be off.

[Brewerbob]

Technology does not flow like fluid, i.e. it can do a lot of fantastic things, but those advancements are fragmented. You see it time and again when we make certain advances and people think, well this will solve so many problems...

Can't tell you how many times the military thought Dog Fighting was a thing of the past due to inovations in technology.Mapping the A.T. with a military grade GPS would pretty much solve the issue of length for the A.T. One GPS sample per foot would take care of it. I think that would hit more than the .1% tolerance

Technology is always the answer. The question is how much are you willing to spend?

[Brewerbob]

Wiki says GPS time keeping is accurate to 14 NANOseconds. That's pretty damn accurate. Not the same as sampling rate but still. Also says they are within 7.9-12" with just the GPS signals. It can be tightened to 3.9" of accuracy with augmentation. So that was a pretty good guess on my part.

[Carl in FL]

Mapping the A.T. with a military grade GPS would pretty much solve the issue of length for the A.T. One GPS sample per foot would take care of it. I think that would hit more than the .1% tolerance

Technology is always the answer. The question is how much are you willing to spend?

I really don't know much about how GPS works in practice, only in theory.
I just assumed it took a sample based on a time interval and not a distance interval.
One sample per second would be enough over-sampling to make up for lost samples in the green tunnel (probably).
I predict that would be in the area of 3 million points, a decent spreadsheet.

If our government can put shrimp on treadmills they ought to fund a small troop of GPS packers with wheels as backup.

[Sly]

You snuck in there while I was pecking away. When was the last time the Trail was "wheeled"?

As far as I know every time there's a relo.

[WingedMonkey]

As much as you may want to sit in your computer room and measure the AT, it's best to get out there and walk it. You will find a mile is never the same.

:sun

[Brewerbob]

I really don't know much about how GPS works in practice, only in theory.
I just assumed it took a sample based on a time interval and not a distance interval.
One sample per second would be enough over-sampling to make up for lost samples in the green tunnel (probably).
I predict that would be in the area of 3 million points, a decent spreadsheet.

If our government can put shrimp on treadmills they ought to fund a small troop of GPS packers with wheels as backup.Fairly sure the exact details are classified but the military grade is a hell of a lot more than once a second. Resolution is MUCH better too. At one point the civilian GPS was only good to 100 feet, while the military had better. That has since been opened up. What we have know is what the military had back then. I want to say the military are accurate to about 3 inches now but don't quote me on that. It's less than a foot tho.

[Brewerbob]

As much as you may want to sit in your computer room and measure the AT, it's best to get out there and walk it. You will find a mile is never the same.

:sunThat's something I've been wondering.. maybe I should start a new thread and ask. The old guys are retired, the young kids are ust out of school. What the hell do the rest of you do for a living that you can do a 1 or 2 month section hike much less take the 5-6 months off for a thru-hike?

[Sly]

Mapping the A.T. with a military grade GPS would pretty much solve the issue of length for the A.T.

What issue of length is that? The ATC says the trail is 2,181 miles. Is that so hard to accept?

[WingedMonkey]

That's something I've been wondering.. maybe I should start a new thread and ask. The old guys are retired, the young kids are ust out of school. What the hell do the rest of you do for a living that you can do a 1 or 2 month section hike much less take the 5-6 months off for a thru-hike?

Start with more than one weekend.

[Carl in FL]

As much as you may want to sit in your computer room and measure the AT, it's best to get out there and walk it. You will find a mile is never the same.


While I could not agree with you more, that's currently not an option for me.
So I am entertaining myself with the technical part of what I enjoy about the trail.

Sly, I pretty much figured any relo was wheeled. Since you are intimating that the entire Trail has been wheeled, and measurements are current, would you be willing to take a +/- stab at the 2181.0 number? It isn't anything you are being held to, but if I did my own research and calculations and data processing and shook the magic rattle and came up with say, 2147 I would think I made a mistake somewhere along the line.

I agree with David that it isn't an exact science but I also agree with Bob that we ought to have a tighter grip on it.

[Sly]

Sly, I pretty much figured any relo was wheeled. Since you are intimating that the entire Trail has been wheeled, and measurements are current, would you be willing to take a +/- stab at the 2181.0 number? It isn't anything you are being held to, but if I did my own research and calculations and data processing and shook the magic rattle and came up with say, 2147 I would think I made a mistake somewhere along the line.


I'm not sure I understand your question. After recent relos the ATC announced the trail to be 2,181 miles. It's my contention the length is derived froM and adding, or subtracting relo miles from its previous length. Here's an article I just found...


The Appalachian Trail Conservancy (ATC) has recently announced in the 2011 Appalachian Trail Data Book that the new official length of the Appalachian Trail (http://www.outboundfamily.com/appalachian-trail) is 2,181.0 miles. Relocations and re-measurements in 2010 meant an additional 1.9 miles for the legendary Appalachian Trail (A.T.).

Every December, the latest mileage and shelter information for the 11 official guides is updated from volunteers who are constantly improving the trail, with volunteer Daniel D. Chazin of Teaneck, N.J., pulling it all together since 1983. This year, increases were reported for Massachusetts–Connecticut (0.2 mile), New York–New Jersey (0.9 mile), central Virginia (0.1 mile), and Tennessee–North Carolina (0.9 mile), while the southwest Virginia mileage was reduced by 0.1 mile.



I still think it's done the old fashion way, by wheel, added and subtracted from known points in the Databook.

Daniel Chazin, one of the trail maintainers or Laurie at the ATC could probably let you know how it's actually done.

[Carl in FL]

I was asking you for your opinion as to how accurate the number was.
Probably Daniel is the one to ask. And he's probably going to tell me it
all depends on how you define it.

I do not disbelieve the number 2181.0; I am trying to get to that number
on my own by adding up the pieces and I keep coming up short using GPS
and long using map measuring techniques. So I am asking many questions
in an attempt to better educate myself.

[Sly]

I was asking you for your opinion as to how accurate the number was.
Probably Daniel is the one to ask. And he's probably going to tell me it
all depends on how you define it.


A foot is 12" long, how else can you define it? Daniel has been doing this nearly 30 years. I'm sure he thinks he's right on the money, as I do. The trail is 2,181 miles. Try using the Companion, it's all right there.. :)

[Carl in FL]

Thank you, Sly. I do use the Thru-Hiker's Companion.
I find it to be useful and actually enjoyable to read.
Because my focus is on shorter hikes, I do not use
the town and supply information as much as others,
yet I find it to be educational.

The Companion is thoughtfully composed and well edited.

[Slo-go'en]

Distances as shown in say the companion or other data books are rounded off to the nearist 0.1 mile. If you add each and every milage point listed, maybe the rounding errors will average out. Or they could add or subtract a few miles off the actual length. A 0.1% accuracy for the overall length would be +/- 2 miles, which I think would be pretty good.

Ideally, one would use the fewist, most accurate, distance measurents possible to get the most accurate overall length. I would say making measurements of no less then 20 miles in distance in one run by wheel, providing about 100 data points, would give a really good over all length.

Back to the original objective of this thread, while the data is interesting, I don't think it is all that useful. I really don't care what the average delta elevation over a long distance is, I want to know if the next couple of miles is going to bust my butt or be easy. Only a profile chart can really convey that information in a visual format which is intuitively easy to understand.

What I think would be really helpfull is a speadsheet with many, many milage + elevation data points, say one for every 500 feet of linear distance. With that many data points, one could make a chart with zoom to get a detailed profile for a short streach of trail, or show fewer points over a longer distance to get the feel for a 10 or 20 mile section. One problem with the profiles shown in the data books is that they can't show all the little unduations of the trail which can wear us out and leads to the impression that the profiles lie, big time.

[Awol2003]

That's just great...7 of the Top 10 are north of Pinkham Notch, which I still have to cover!
I'd be curious to know how steep and long these climbs are, perhaps as a percent gradient. I'd also be interested in knowing where the climb up South Kinsman ranks, which I thought was much worse than the climb up South Twin or Liberty Springs.
11) Saddleback
12) Gulf Hagas Mtn
13) Carter Dome
14) near Barren Ledges
15) South Kinsman
The slopes range from 0.33 to 0.23. I agree, S. Kinsman "seemed" harder than many of those with higher slopes, as did the trail up Webster Cliffs.

[Brewerbob]

Back to the original objective of this thread, while the data is interesting, I don't think it is all that useful. I really don't care what the average delta elevation over a long distance is, I want to know if the next couple of miles is going to bust my butt or be easy. Only a profile chart can really convey that information in a visual format which is intuitively easy to understand.

What I think would be really helpfull is a speadsheet with many, many milage + elevation data points, say one for every 500 feet of linear distance. With that many data points, one could make a chart with zoom to get a detailed profile for a short streach of trail, or show fewer points over a longer distance to get the feel for a 10 or 20 mile section. One problem with the profiles shown in the data books is that they can't show all the little unduations of the trail which can wear us out and leads to the impression that the profiles lie, big time.That is EXACTLY what a military grade GPS will do for you. I'll guess that the sample rate is probably on the order of 50 milliseconds. At a walking speed that's going to be a lot of data points in 2180 miles and 6 months. Just don't trip and fall off the trail else you'll have to start over. I don't want to give up the 4" accuracy.:D

[Carl in FL]

Bob, does a GPS give you elevation data in addition to the lat/long?

[ChillyWilly]

Minus the thin air, it's every time you do 29,029' in elevation, you've climbed the equivalent of Everest.

So, its the sum of the elevation gains from the previous Everest point?


So when you're talking to your non-hiking friend and say you hiked the Appalachian Trail, it's the same as climbing Everest 17 times! They go "WOW!"

Where the wild Sherpanis at?

[Brewerbob]

Bob, does a GPS give you elevation data in addition to the lat/long?Yep. Tho not very accurately with the civie ones. I have a Garmin 478 that I bought for the boat. It does elevation. At a redlight, I'm going 0 mph, not moving left, right, forward, or backawards but my elevation is changing as much as 35 feet. Probably caused to atmosphere delays. The military added a third signal to calculate and remove that error hence the 4" resolution.

[Brewerbob]

Start with more than one weekend.Yeah, and how does this answer the question asked?

That's something I've been wondering.. maybe I should start a new thread and ask. The old guys are retired, the young kids are ust out of school. What the hell do the rest of you do for a living that you can do a 1 or 2 month section hike much less take the 5-6 months off for a thru-hike?

With a job, how do you take 5-6 months off?

[Slo-go'en]

With a job, how do you take 5-6 months off?

Very, very few people with a job and family to support take 5-6 months off. Your lucky if you can take a couple of weeks off these days. It is sometimes possible to get a sabbatical from work and do the trip, provided you have sufficent savings or other finacial resources to pay all the at home expenses and the hike. Ideally, one would marry into money and not have to worry about work at all.

[WingedMonkey]

Yeah, and how does this answer the question asked?
With a job, how do you take 5-6 months off?

There are probably about 20 threads that discuss that at length. And then there are at least a hundred trail journals where it is written about by those that have done it.

My point was...a mile on a map and a mile on the trial are never the same as when you are actually walking. Even one mile on the trail is not the same as another on the trail. Your tired knees and sore back tell you what an easy mile or hell mile is, but it's still a mile. The ATC by publishing the Data Book every year (I must have at least 8 of them) tells us what the "official" measured miles are. No one else's measurements mean anything.

:sun

[Brewerbob]

Very, very few people with a job and family to support take 5-6 months off. Your lucky if you can take a couple of weeks off these days. It is sometimes possible to get a sabbatical from work and do the trip, provided you have sufficent savings or other finacial resources to pay all the at home expenses and the hike. Ideally, one would marry into money and not have to worry about work at all.Being born to it would have been better. I threw away 2 lottery tickets this week. Didn't have a single matching number on either of them. This plan is working about as well as marrying into it did.

[Brewerbob]

There are probably about 20 threads that discuss that at length. And then there are at least a hundred trail journals where it is written about by those that have done it.
Haven't gone searching for any.

I'd like to take my son when he graduates. We'll see later in Aug if he's up for it. Taking a week off. Might just do base camping from the truck and hike the overlooks.

[Carl in FL]

My advice: If you have the health to do it, do it.
If you wait for the time and the money, the health might not be there anymore.
And that, to be blunt, sucks.

[Brewerbob]

My advice: If you have the health to do it, do it.
If you wait for the time and the money, the health might not be there anymore.
And that, to be blunt, sucks.I'd like to walk out of work but I don't see that happening in the immediate future. To do it when my son graduates would take that entire year of saving every nickel I can. That's just to cover the mortgage while gone. The expense of the trail doesn't help.

Hope to be reitred when I'm old like you. ;)

[chinook]

Here is a URL where you can download a zip file with the ATC 2009 centerline-track data with USGS digital elevation data for each track point.
You can do your own elevation studies. On the page below, the data is used to determine the top 5 steepest half-mile and mile sections as well as create graphs of elevation profiles between shelters.

http://web.eecs.utk.edu/~dunigan/at/atelev.html (http://web.eecs.utk.edu/%7Edunigan/at/atelev.html)

[attroll]

I closed this thread. Reason: promoted to an article. You can view it here http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php?49.