View Full Version : Homeless Person - Raymond - near Damascus
Does anyone know a homeless individual that has been living either on the AT or Creeper Trail in the vicinity of Damascus that goes by the name of Raymond? He is 22 yrs old, short reddish blond hair, 5'10."
Anyway I need to know if anyone has met this young man. PM me please.
Lone Wolf
01-03-2008, 21:06
and you wonder why i'm wary of all hikers and never let them into my home
WalkingStick75
01-03-2008, 22:37
Interesting post Wanderer, but a little more information is probably needed. Do you know this person? I hate to jump to any conclusions but in light of a situation in GA right now I'm sure a lot of people have the same questions.
Never thought about homeless people using shelters, Is there much of this going on? And has there been any problems from it?
Who's the moderator on this thread?
and you wonder why i'm wary of all hikers and never let them into my home
I don't wonder at all why you do that. It is not my intent to push my practices off onto you or anyone else. It is simply my calling to reach out to others and sometimes that means I have to open up my home, or reach into my pocket, maybe feed someone, lend an ear and so on. But when the alarms go off about someone it is also my duty to let my comminity know what is up.
Never thought about homeless people using shelters, Is there much of this going on? And has there been any problems from it?
There have been reports to the effect that shelters near roads may be frequented by homeless people. Governor Clemente Shelter in VT was one of them, although I did not see anyone there when I passed through a couple of years ago. I ran into someone at a shelter in CT last winter who appeared to be homeless and was begging food from hikers.
Interesting post Wanderer, but a little more information is probably needed. Do you know this person? I hate to jump to any conclusions but in light of a situation in GA right now I'm sure a lot of people have the same questions.
I let this guy stay at my home thru the holidays and he was an oddball to say the least but I figured he was truly a lost soul needing some rest. I just felt led to reach out and feed him and help him. God knows how many times people opened up their homes to me to help me have a rest when I was out there wandering all over the place.
He has some issues, but when you live like he does your gonna have issues. Your not going to say the right things sometimes, you might even go to talking to yourself and so on.
I figured he may be dodging bullets, but I also figured if he wanted to talk about it he would. I let him know from the very first time I invited him to stay of my suspicions of him. I find this tactic to work with people like he is because they usually will get the message that even though they are welcomed I'm not buying their whole story. And usually they become a bit more truthful. He did not become a bit more truthful.
He left the day after Christmas and then came back to town yesterday. I was at home and I heard him speaking on the phone outside. We got to talking and since it was so cold and he looked real lonely I invited him to stay just for the night. He didn't waist no time jumping into a hot shower.
After that he goes to Subway and gets a subway in spite of the fact that he told me he was broke and I was fixin a big pot roast. When he comes back my housemate said he heard my dog going nuts like something was wrong. He looks out the window and sees it's Raymond and goes back to doing what he's doing but Sally won't quit barking and she's starting to sound pretty mean about it. He looks out the window again and here is Raymond just hoverring out of Sally's reach and staring her down.
Terry told me enough was enough and began telling me about his suspicions as well. So I confronted the kid and told him that I didn't like what he did with my dog and let him know that we were uncomfortable with him being there and to pack up and get out.
Anyway I was wanting to know if anyone had met him and their opinion of him.
I'm going to keep on reaching out to hurting souls because when I was hurting there was someone always reaching out to me it seemed. And today as I sit here at this pc I know without a doubt that I would not be where I am at in this community had it not been for others helping me along the way.
I maybe wrong about this boy, but time will tell. He is not a hiker and does not know anything about the AT. I know he's looking for a free ride from the statement he made as he was leaving. He said he had hiked the PCT four hundred miles and he could not go back there because no one helped him out like he had heard they did along the AT.
I got two different stories about him of how he came to be here. And none of them had anything to do with the trail. I told him as he was leaving to go to the homeless shelter in Bristol and told him about the six month program they had to help one to get back on their feet.
But anyway.................
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2008, 08:54
You are a good man for helping - I know I've heard something about people entertaining angels unaware somewhere ;)
I hope the young man took your advice and went to the program in Bristol. I worked in an indigent alcohol and drug treatment center for several years in my younger days. I met many, many people like this young man - and some of them are married with children, educated and have careers today as a result of someone doing pretty much what you did.
TOW, don't feel bad for turning the fellow out - sometimes saying "no, your behavior is not acceptable. You need to leave' is the most loving and helpful thing you can do. It is called 'tough love' for a reason - it is tough on the receiver's conscience and tough on the giver's spirit, but it is true love - the sort Christ showed to some who needed it - nonetheless.
Thanks FD, thanks for understanding. I don't feel guilty at all about telling him to move along. I am a bit concerned about him though, it was very cold out there last night.
NICKTHEGREEK
01-04-2008, 09:08
Never thought about homeless people using shelters, Is there much of this going on? And has there been any problems from it?
There were reports/rumors many years ago on the PATC net about a homeless family living in the Manassas Gap shelter in VA.
A whole family? What happened with them?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2008, 09:14
Thanks FD, thanks for understanding. I don't feel guilty at all about telling him to move along. I am a bit concerned about him though, it was very cold out there last night.I assure you he found a place to be -- it may not have been as nice as your home, but it is not like Damascus is overrun with homeless people - many places near heating vents would have been available in a town that size.
TOW, this guy is a survivor - he knows how. He just doesn't know why yet. Put him in Bigger Hands and let Him take care of this person. You can't, He can, just let Him.
There but for an extraordinarily patient wife go I.
_terrapin_
01-04-2008, 09:21
There were reports/rumors many years ago on the PATC net about a homeless family living in the Manassas Gap shelter in VA.
So now here's the question. Permanent residence in shelters is uncool. I don't know if it's illegal or not. I have no backround info on the above situation, but it seems to me, PATC should have gently evicted that family -- after helping them find shelter at some place more appropriate.
In other words, if important folks at PATC knew of this situation, they should have done the responsible thing -- enforce their own rules and not just look the other way and whisper about it privately.
TOW, it is wonderful to know there are still people out there like you that care. Too many people are afraid to even get involved today. Many wandering soles just need a hand up and a lift out. You bring to mind a Christmas poem by Helen Steiner Rice called the Christmas Guest where a man was waiting for Jesus but three strangers showed up instead. One he fed, one he clothed, and one was a lost child.
http://my.homewithgod.com/lanell/TheChristmasGuest.html
I assure you he found a place to be -- it may not have been as nice as your home, but it is not like Damascus is overrun with homeless people - many places near heating vents would have been available in a town that size.
TOW, this guy is a survivor - he knows how. He just doesn't know why yet. Put him in Bigger Hands and let Him take care of this person. You can't, He can, just let Him.
Well I don't know about the town not being over run with homeless people. Yesterday at the food bank there was a report that there were three homeless people who showed up at Woods Landing Apartments looking for a place to stay. I don't know, it seems that we are starting to get some flocking here.
And your right, he is a survivor just like I am a survivor. And yes, it is very obvious that He is watching out for this boy. But I know one thing He uses those He knows who will reach out to show them that He is real.
And that is what this boils down to for me about the kid. I just hope I made the right call. Again I don't feel guilty for the action I took, I did not lose any sleep over it.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2008, 09:23
There were reports/rumors many years ago on the PATC net about a homeless family living in the Manassas Gap shelter in VA.This happens more frequently than you might think. When I worked in foster care, we saw at least 10 to 12 families doing this a year in this small county alone. What generally happens is the children are put in temporary foster care (and a shelter for homeless children) while the parents go to an adult shelter and permanent housing is located for the family (usually a housing project) The children are then returned.
Thankfully, some shelters now exist that take in whole families so that children don't have to be separated from parents during this process - separating children from parents is never good for the children (sometimes it is less bad for them than leaving them with the parents in true abuse and neglect situations, however)
TOW, it is wonderful to know there are still people out there like you that care. Too many people are afraid to even get involved today. Many wandering soles just need a hand up and a lift out. You bring to mind a Christmas poem by Helen Steiner Rice called the Christmas Guest where a man was waiting for Jesus but three strangers showed up instead. One he fed, one he clothed, and one was a lost child.
http://my.homewithgod.com/lanell/TheChristmasGuest.html
Thankyou for posting that link, that was right on the mark! And that is why I am going to keep on doing what I do!
This happens more frequently than you might think. When I worked in foster care, we saw at least 10 to 12 families doing this a year in this small county alone. What generally happens is the children are put in temporary foster care (and a shelter for homeless children) while the parents go to an adult shelter and permanent housing is located for the family (usually a housing project) The children are then returned.
Thankfully, some shelters now exist that take in whole families so that children don't have to be separated from parents during this process - separating children from parents is never good for the children (sometimes it is less bad for them than leaving them with the parents in true abuse and neglect situations, however)
Manassas Gap Shelter is a three-sided AT shelter north of Linden, VA.
But I agree with everything else in your post. Folks like you, TOW, etc. help make this a greater society.
Johnny Thunder
01-04-2008, 10:07
"In the City...city of Damascus..."
Manassas Gap Shelter is a three-sided AT shelter north of Linden, VA.
But I agree with everything else in your post. Folks like you, TOW, etc. help make this a greater society.
Thankyou..........
I'm not looking for a pat on the back but I'll take it anyway. I simply want everyone to be aware of this guy..........
I found The Queen of England (Peggy Childers) living at the Fulhardt shelter. She talked me out of $20 bucks.
john gault
01-04-2008, 20:19
I found The Queen of England (Peggy Childers) living at the Fulhardt shelter. She talked me out of $20 bucks.
I missed her by a day or two in 2006, but I heard a lot about her, maybe I'll get to see her this year during my section hike.
Jack Tarlin
01-04-2008, 20:31
Aw, she was allright. Her knowledge of geneology and British History was a bit off-base....... it was kinda like talking history with Tha Wookie or The Weasel, i.e. don't believe whatever you're hearing, but all in all, she was a harmless soul, if a bit daft. I thought she was good company.
Lone Wolf
01-04-2008, 21:18
Aw, she was allright. Her knowledge of geneology and British History was a bit off-base....... it was kinda like talking history with Tha Wookie or The Weasel, i.e. don't believe whatever you're hearing, but all in all, she was a harmless soul, if a bit daft. I thought she was good company.
*******!! that's funny right there! :)
She was pretty eccentric but very interesting. I never regreted giving her 20 bucks; she needed it worse than I did and I got to meet a real trail "legend". :D
I am TOWs roomate and I tried many times to befriend this kid. I dont trust people who would be mean to animals. [dont get me wrong here I have no problem with hunting] I am a christian man and try to live my life by the Bible, but there is a thin line between helping someone or helping them to stay in the life stile they are in. Before moving to Damascus I lived in the Fort Lauderdale-Miami area for 30 years. I have had alot of dealings with homeless people, and about 98% of them dont realy want to change there life stile. While on the AT this last summer I came across a hiker/bum who started his line on me right away. I gave him some food and parted company the next moring. 2 months later I see him in Damascus and its the same old thing, I bring him to TOWs and we feed him. The next night he comes knocking on the door around 9:30 pm wanting to watch the football game. I told him that I go to sleep at 10:00 everynight and could care less about football, He did not want to take no for a anser. I had to get in his face to get him to leave. I think we should always try to help others but we need to use the brains that God gave us to know the best way to help.
shelterbuilder
01-06-2008, 00:19
There were reports/rumors many years ago on the PATC net about a homeless family living in the Manassas Gap shelter in VA.
Yeah, every so often we see certain shelters become a "mecca" for homeless folks here in Pa. I try to tell my shelter maintainers to remove any extra food and/or gear that they may find, in an effort to "discourage" anyone who is "outdoors-unprepared" from using the shelters as a "free flop-house". Now, that may sound heartless to some, but there are better places to go than trail shelters (and better-equiped organizations to handle this than trail clubs).
Over the last few months, I've noticed an increase in the amount of questionable "backpacking" gear that we're taking out of the shelters in my area - and a definite increase in the amount of trash that's piling up - much of it is heavy cans and bottles of food. Anyone else noticing this anywhere?
OregonHiker
01-06-2008, 00:43
I'm not looking for a pat on the back
You are good man:sun
Yeah, every so often we see certain shelters become a "mecca" for homeless folks here in Pa. I try to tell my shelter maintainers to remove any extra food and/or gear that they may find, in an effort to "discourage" anyone who is "outdoors-unprepared" from using the shelters as a "free flop-house". Now, that may sound heartless to some, but there are better places to go than trail shelters (and better-equiped organizations to handle this than trail clubs).
Over the last few months, I've noticed an increase in the amount of questionable "backpacking" gear that we're taking out of the shelters in my area - and a definite increase in the amount of trash that's piling up - much of it is heavy cans and bottles of food. Anyone else noticing this anywhere?
If we as maintainers are vigilant, these problems don't multiply. By "vigilant," I mean visit your shelter as often as possible, report obvious problems to authorities that can actually do something about them, and remove anything and everything left behind by others.
Some of the stuff left behind has been ridiculously heavy and inappropriate to backpacking (10# tents, soaking wet blue jeans, 15# sacks of oatmeal, large cans of beans etc.). This isn't a new phenomenon at the shelters I help with or know about in SNP.
shelterbuilder
01-06-2008, 12:09
If we as maintainers are vigilant, these problems don't multiply. By "vigilant," I mean visit your shelter as often as possible, report obvious problems to authorities that can actually do something about them, and remove anything and everything left behind by others.
Some of the stuff left behind has been ridiculously heavy and inappropriate to backpacking (10# tents, soaking wet blue jeans, 15# sacks of oatmeal, large cans of beans etc.). This isn't a new phenomenon at the shelters I help with or know about in SNP.
I know it's not new - I've seen it for years, too, but not to the extent that I'm seeing recently. I'm doing shelter inspections right now, and in the last week, I've carried outcarpet underlayment, air mattresses and pumps, folding chairs, BEER (not just a can or two!), and 6 large bags of trash! From only 3 shelters!!! I just wondered if others had noticed an increase this year in this sort of thing, or if it's just here in southeast Pa.
Lone Wolf
01-06-2008, 12:10
Keep building them, they will come.
I know it's not new - I've seen it for years, too, but not to the extent that I'm seeing recently. I'm doing shelter inspections right now, and in the last week, I've carried outcarpet underlayment, air mattresses and pumps, folding chairs, BEER (not just a can or two!), and 6 large bags of trash! From only 3 shelters!!! I just wondered if others had noticed an increase this year in this sort of thing, or if it's just here in southeast Pa.
How close are those shelters to a road?
Why not simply remove problem shelters or move them farther from roads?
I'm not sure I understand the original point in this thread. Is TOW after the guy for yelling at his dog, or is he concerned about the dude's well being?
shelterbuilder
01-06-2008, 12:44
Keep building them, they will come.
DON'T PUSH ME MAN - I'M A STONE'S THROW AWAY FROM JOINING THE "NO SHELTERS" CAMP!!!:rolleyes:
Tin Man, it's not like our shelters are really close to roads - and the one that had the least trash was the one that is the closest to a parking lot! Our shelters are all at least 2 miles from the nearest public road crossing (except for the one I mentioned earlier). I can't wait to see what the other two shelters look like!!
DON'T PUSH ME MAN - I'M A STONE'S THROW AWAY FROM JOINING THE "NO SHELTERS" CAMP!!!:rolleyes:
Tin Man, it's not like our shelters are really close to roads - and the one that had the least trash was the one that is the closest to a parking lot! Our shelters are all at least 2 miles from the nearest public road crossing (except for the one I mentioned earlier). I can't wait to see what the other two shelters look like!!
Sounds like it is past time for a good shelter burning party. :D
I'm doing shelter inspections right now.....
Not for nothing, the shelter is great, well kept, clean etc but get rid of those tacky lawn and shelter decorations at the Quarry Gap Shelters. I was ready to rip them out.
john gault
01-06-2008, 12:55
If we as maintainers are vigilant, these problems don't multiply. By "vigilant," I mean visit your shelter as often as possible, report obvious problems to authorities that can actually do something about them, and remove anything and everything left behind by others.
Some of the stuff left behind has been ridiculously heavy and inappropriate to backpacking (10# tents, soaking wet blue jeans, 15# sacks of oatmeal, large cans of beans etc.). This isn't a new phenomenon at the shelters I help with or know about in SNP.
I've seen a family in Pass Mtn shelter, many years ago, but I thought that was uncommon for SNP shelter, but you indicate it's not? I thought this kind of thing just happened to the shelters in the mid-Atlantic states that were close to populated areas.
I've seen a family in Pass Mtn shelter, many years ago, but I thought that was uncommon for SNP shelter, but you indicate it's not? I thought this kind of thing just happened to the shelters in the mid-Atlantic states that were close to populated areas.
I didn't mean to suggest the variety of trash hauled out of shelters is indicative of someone or a group that has "moved in." IMHO it's usually weekenders or newbies who don't want to carry the discarded stuff anymore.
Since PMH is a shelter I co-maintain, I'm surprised to hear about this family. How many years ago?
A few winters back, we had a guy stay there for a week until I got wind of it (no pun intended). And someone or a group burned a lot of the firewood we had provided, in a relatively short span of time. But a family moving in? News to me.
The posted rule on all the SNP shelters is one night only. Outside of busy seasons, no one gets too bent out of shape if someone stays two nights. But to move in and make it a home--or a basecamp--is strictly forbidden. SNP law enforcement rangers would--and have--taken quick action as soon as it's reported.
john gault
01-06-2008, 15:05
Years ago, I think late 90s (96-99). They had a dog that the father claimed was 1/2 wolf, really crazy people. I don't know how long they were there, We were just passing through, but they had a bunch of crap, none of it was typical hiker stuff. I'll have to ask my father if he remembers any more details.
I'm not sure I understand the original point in this thread. Is TOW after the guy for yelling at his dog, or is he concerned about the dude's well being?
We are concerned about the kid who is living out in the woods,outside of Damascus. Is He dangerous or just crazy? We can deal with crazy.
generoll
01-06-2008, 16:20
are crazy and dangerous mutually exclusive?
are crazy and dangerous mutually exclusive?
Alot of people thought I was crazy to give up my apartment and give all my stuff away, to go and hike the AT and find a small town to live in the winters. If the kid wants to live in the woods in the winter, thats fine with me. But if he stays overnight in our house, He better not be dangerous. Do you get what I mean?
Nightwalker
01-06-2008, 22:27
are crazy and dangerous mutually exclusive?
Yup. I'm crazy, but never dangerous.
A lot of life is about choices, but not all nuts made some choice that got them there, contrary to what some of the haters will tell you.
Tennessee Viking
01-06-2008, 23:49
Being winter, it is possible that he has moved over to Abingdon and Bristol where there are homeless shelters
Being winter, it is possible that he has moved over to Abingdon and Bristol where there are homeless shelters
I suggested that to this young man and he adamantly told me point blank that he has been in many shelters and all people want to do is mess with you. Then right after that he told me the reason he came to be near the AT is that he has been told by countless hikers he encountered on the PCT that he should go and hike the AT because people really help you get along there. As a matter of fact his last statement to me, after I told him he needed some help, was "Yes, I need help. But when I was hiking the PCT no one offered to do anything for me and I heard out here I can get all the help I need. I need people to help me."
Anyway I feel the kid is dangerous as well as being a proffesional mooch and I feel it is my duty to let you guys know about him just in case you encounter him on the trail.
BTW, the "proffesional mooch" theory not only comes from me but one of his family members as well because we had a talk about him after I called him because I was wondering who's strange number was on my callers ID.
john gault
01-07-2008, 10:59
...Anyway I feel the kid is dangerous as well as being a proffesional mooch and I feel it is my duty to let you guys know about him just in case you encounter him on the trail.
BTW, the "proffesional mooch" theory not only comes from me but one of his family members as well because we had a talk about him after I called him because I was wondering who's strange number was on my callers ID.
I like meeting these type people. I gives me great pleasure to look them straight in the eyes and say NO after giving me a pitiful story and then beg for food or money....
Thanks FD, thanks for understanding. I don't feel guilty at all about telling him to move along. I am a bit concerned about him though, it was very cold out there last night.
No offense Larry, but I got some icky vibes off that dude that night that he came over for Christmas. My gut's usually right. I think you did the right thing.
leeki pole
01-07-2008, 18:03
are crazy and dangerous mutually exclusive?
Nope. Good point generoll. Umm, have you guys been watching the news?
No offense Larry, but I got some icky vibes off that dude that night that he came over for Christmas. My gut's usually right. I think you did the right thing.
thanx sis!
So now here's the question. Permanent residence in shelters is uncool. I don't know if it's illegal or not. It's fine just so long as you stay in a different shelter every night. ;)
what if you paid your turf fees bfitz?
what if you paid your turf fees bfitz?What're those? Nevr heard of "turf fees", but if there's someplace you can pay to stay and you paid then I say you can stay. As long as you pay. One word for that is rent. But I have no problem with the few actual homeless I've met on the trail. Of course they didn't steal from or threaten me. If they did, I'd have a problem. Same as anyplace else.
What're those? Nevr heard of "turf fees", but if there's someplace you can pay to stay and you paid then I say you can stay. As long as you pay. One word for that is rent. But I have no problem with the few actual homeless I've met on the trail. Of course they didn't steal from or threaten me. If they did, I'd have a problem. Same as anyplace else.
just joshing ya a bit.....................:banana
shelterbuilder
01-07-2008, 21:12
Not for nothing, the shelter is great, well kept, clean etc but get rid of those tacky lawn and shelter decorations at the Quarry Gap Shelters. I was ready to rip them out.
Ah, Quarry Gap is a little south of my normal range of operations for BMECC.
And I agree with terrapin - permanent residence in a shelter is uncool, and, while not technically illegal, there are ways that "squatters" can be evicted, but it's never very easy, and usually involves a somewhat unwilling LEO who isn't used to walking that much. What we've found that works better than eviction, is making the place "uninviting" for extended stays...removing any abandoned equipment when it's found, removing amenities such as extra food, TP, water jugs, etc. Our position is that if you need to rely on food and equipment that's been left by others, then you are NOT prepared to be outdoors and you shouldn't be there - go home, go to a homeless shelter, go someplace else. But don't expect the local hiking club, the ATC, or the NPS to act as a social welfare agency. That may sound heartless, but we simply aren't equiped to act in that capacity, whereas others are.
I'll get off my soapbox now....
GA2ME2014
01-13-2008, 20:44
Nope. Good point generoll. Umm, have you guys been watching the news?
What should we be looking for in the news?