View Full Version : Insulating Layer
Marty_Mcfly
02-04-2008, 22:46
I am having a lot of trouble figuring out which jacket I should purchase as an insulating layer for my thru hike. I am trying to decide if down or synthetic would be better. I plan on starting my thru around March 15th. I am also using it to extend the temp rating of my quilt. I am considering the montbell alpine light down jacket, down inner jacket, thermawrap jacket. I am also considering the integral designs plq jacket, and the backpacking light cocoon 60 pullover. I am really torn about what to get. I want the security and ease of laundering of the synthetics, but I want the weight savings and warmth of the down. Is down that hard to launder? Are the synthetics going to be warm enough? Please help!
- Marty
take-a-knee
02-04-2008, 23:01
Get a synthetic jacket with a hood, your clothing is your last refuge against hypothermia and a synthetic jacket can be dried by a campfire. It isn't as easy to keep clothing dry as it is a sleeping bag double-bagged in a pack.
FanaticFringer
02-04-2008, 23:01
I have the Montbell alpine light down jacket and I really love it. I'd get the ul down inner jacket for a thru-hike.
I would also keep all my down in my sleeping bag,
but presuming you already have a wind layer and rain layer,
why not a wool sweater?
Montbell and Western Mountaineering make great down vests/jackets. Personally, if I were to carry an insulation layer, I'd get the Western Mountaineering Flight vest.
How many shell layers would that make in total?
River Runner
02-04-2008, 23:07
Well I really like the Montbell Down Inner Parka, which has a hood, but synthetic would probably be much easier to launder in trail towns. Down should be handwashed with an appropriate down cleaner (not normal detergent) and then either laid to dry and the down clusters fluffed by hand, or dried on low heat in a dryer with tennis balls to help fluff the down (or removed and fluffed by hand as some advise). I have not yet had to wash mine, but I don't think it would be an easy process to accomplish in a trail town laundry.
The other thing to think about is if you experience a day of a lot of rain, it is more difficult to dry down if it does get wet. Supposedly synthetic is still 'warmer when wet' than down, but I wouldn't want to get synthetic insulation wet either. It's still going to be warmer when dry than wet.
Another thing to consider is what is your sleeping bag? If your bag is down, a synthetic jacket is insurance in the event your down bag gets wet. If it is synthetic, it can be your backup in case your jacket gets wet.
Really it is going to come down to your individual choice. How skilled are you at keeping gear dry and clean? How willing are you to put up with the inconvenience of cleaning down on the trail?
I haven't thru-hiked yet, but here's my thoughts anyway...
(Feel like I just said... I'm not a thru-hiker, but I play one on TV... hehe).
Down vs Synthetic: Buy synthetic. The AT has a rep of being very wet. You'll be able to keep a down sleeping bag dry if you're careful... but don't count on keeping your jacket dry.
Take a look at the synthetic insulation "Primaloft" I believe it's new in the last few years (at least that's what the sales guy said) and has perhaps the best warmth to weight ratio of the synthetics... still not quite as good as down, but comes close (again, the sales guy told me that).
I was sold on a Primaloft insulated jacket, and so far I'm happy with it... but I've only been wearing it around town for the most part, with one night using it camping.
River Runner
02-04-2008, 23:09
P.S. The Montbell U.L. Down Inner Parka is not a full winter jacket. I'm very comfortable in mine with a light base layer down to about freezing. Much below that & I want an extra layer such as a light fleece top, or a heavier base layer.
More importantly, what layers do you already have? How cold might it get?
How many shell layers do you have already? Why not just add or thicken a wool layer?
Why don't more people just wear a wool sweater, and then add a skin layer and wind layer when neccessary? Insulated jackets go against the concept of layers. They are not as versatile and add unneccessary additional shell layers.
Perhaps its because good quality wool sweaters don't lend themselves to mass production like insulated jackets. You can get a nice old lady in Maine to knit a very nice sweater out of some very nice wool for the same money as some of these cheap jackets.
Slow down, JAK. They have to catch up to you.
Has anyone else tried something as follows:
6-8oz cheap merino wool sweater as a skin layer
16oz or heavier wool sweater
4-5oz cheap nylon wind shell
Hike in just the sweater most of the time. Add the other layers when needed.
Perhaps also carry a 10oz 100wt fleece layer for over the sweater when needed.
Wise Old Owl
02-04-2008, 23:25
Why don't more people just wear a wool sweater, and then add a skin layer and wind layer when neccessary? Insulated jackets go against the concept of layers. They are not as versatile and add unneccessary additional shell layers.
Jak you are not off base yet Wool is heavy and old fashioned by this 46 year old. I love my Scottish wool sweater collection. Won't hike with it. I cannot afford a Montbell, Yet I have other exspensive XCR jackets, a new personal favorite is a cheap $69 LLBean 1 Lbs, Down jacket, that I wear with layers, isn't it great? cheap & lightweight. It does zip into the XCR and it appears to have DWR but it isn't mentioned anywhere.
doggiebag
02-04-2008, 23:26
Slow down, JAK. They have to catch up to you.
Maybe he's got a sheep farm somewhere :D - hard sell on the wool.
Slow down, JAK. They have to catch up to you.LOL.
I'm just wondering who's wearing all those lovely sweaters I see in Maine.
Maybe he's got a sheep farm somewhere :D - hard sell on the wool.I admit its a hard sell.
That doesn't mean its not the best system.
Just not the easiest way for REI and others to make money.
Anyhow. Got to run.
Walking home in my wool sweater and nylon shell.
http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/city/pages/nb-23_metric_e.html
If its no wool, ITS CRAP! :D
doggiebag
02-04-2008, 23:32
Anyhow. Got to run.
Walking home in my wool sweater and nylon shell.
http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/city/pages/nb-23_metric_e.html
Sheep scattering?
_terrapin_
02-04-2008, 23:32
JAK's got a point. I've never figured out the deal with high-tech fabrics and such. A cheap polyester flannel shirt ($10 at blair.com) is one of the most useful and versatile items in my pack. Wool is fine too, but no more effective, and a lot more expensive.
If need be, wear a polypro base layer under it, or a nylon shell over it. Those three layers are good to 20 degrees F, at least.
ChinMusic
02-04-2008, 23:35
LOL.
I'm just wondering who's wearing all those lovely sweaters I see in Maine.
I absolutely LOVE my Icebreaker Rock Zip: http://www.icebreaker.com/site/icebreaker_man_sport320_rock_zip.html?thumb_value= Charcoal%2FSeville
doggiebag
02-04-2008, 23:36
I've actually purchased a nice wool jacket ... believe it or not from REI. I love wool as well - it allows me to get close to my campfires without too much worry - as opposed to the synthetics.
Marty_Mcfly
02-04-2008, 23:37
I think the synthetic insulating layer is the best call. I might combine it with a Wool sweater so that I can extend its temperature range. Thus my layers would consist of:
Capilene 1 t-shirt
Newbalance long sleeve lightening dry shirt Or Capilene 2 or 3 (cannot decide)
Montane Aero Windshirt
Montbell or Primaloft smock
Do yall think that will be suitable for Georgia Temperatures in March?
I meant hardly a sheep. I do my own thing.
I got my last wool sweater for $6 at Frenchies. I mix wool with synthetics, but more wool than synthetics. Wool requires more care, but it doesn't smell as bad. I think wool is best for the thicker layer you wear more continuously, and thin synthetics are better for the layers that will be added when needed. Shells can be cheap nylon, as long as they are very light.
Wool doesn't have to be expensive.
That said, why not pay an old lady for her time.
Everyone should have at least one hand knit sweater.
doggiebag
02-04-2008, 23:46
I may just flock over to the next sweater sale ... as long as the prices don't shear me wool is not baaaaad. Time to count some sheep before bedtime.
I think the synthetic insulating layer is the best call. I might combine it with a Wool sweater so that I can extend its temperature range. Thus my layers would consist of:
Capilene 1 t-shirt
Newbalance long sleeve lightening dry shirt Or Capilene 2 or 3 (cannot decide)
Montane Aero Windshirt
Montbell or Primaloft smock
Do yall think that will be suitable for Georgia Temperatures in March?I think that would work but I think you migh have too many layers that you can't wear all at once. If it makes sense to wear all of this stuff at once in the most extreme you might encounter then perhaps.
Capilene 1 t-shirt
Newbalance long sleeve lightening dry shirt Or Capilene 2 or 3 (cannot decide)
Wool Sweater
Montane Aero Windshirt
Montbell or Primaloft smock
I think the real trick with the wool sweater is to wear it all the time, and use the other layers as light packable layers that can't absorb much water. I'm not sure you need both the wool sweater and the Montbell or Primaloft smock, whatever that is. I would suggest this:
Capilene 1 t-shirt
8oz merino wool sweater from thrift store
16oz wool sweater, something local
Montane Aero Windshirt
whatever your rain layer is
Like JAK, I use to be a big proponent of wool clothing (especially 'cable knit' sweaters from Ireland) but since I discovered Thinsulate and Nylon/Polyester, which I find to be just as warm but lighter than wool, I've had a tendancy to shy away from wool products except for items like Merino Wool socks for hiking (I use a synthetic liner sock).
I find it kind of strange that since I've stopped using most wool clothing products for several year now, I've seemed to have developed a slight allergy to wearing most wool now. Wonder if it's the lanoline in the wool fibers? Even hand lotion that contains lanoline causes a reaction.
I may just flock over to the next sweater sale ... as long as the prices don't shear me wool is not baaaaad. Time to count some sheep before bedtime.LOL.
I'm sure you'll find something if you don't get too worried. ;)
Got to go count some sheep myself.
doggiebag
02-04-2008, 23:59
Can't bleat that.:D
_terrapin_
02-05-2008, 00:00
I find it kind of strange that since I've stopped using most wool clothing products for several year now, I've seemed to have developed a slight allergy to wearing most wool now. Wonder if it's the lanoline in the wool fibers? Even hand lotion that contains lanoline causes a reaction.
I wear a nice Pendleton wool shirt routinely around the house in the winter, usually over a cotton tee. No problem. I bought an inexpensive merino wool base layer last year and found that the itching gets on my nerves in short order. It hasn't been washed yet -- I'm wondering if maybe it'll mellow after a washing or two?
JAK,
For winter use, I wear a surplus wool sweater and use an inexpensive no-name brand nylon shell.
The wool is heavier, but I find it breathes better for all around use. Since I wear it all day in winter, I don't mind the extra weight and bulk FOR WINTER.
But, keeping with JAK's theme, why not use an Army Field jacket liner? Warm, light and cheap.
http://www.rddusa.com/U-S-G-I-M-65-Jacket-Liner-Military-Army-Liners-Army-Clothing-Military-Gear-Camouflage-Clothing-Military-Surplus-Army-Navy-Surplus-Vintage-Urban-Wear-Out-Wear-Us-Gi.html
Like JAK, I use to be a big proponent of wool clothing (especially 'cable knit' sweaters from Ireland) but since I discovered Thinsulate and Nylon/Polyester, which I find to be just as warm but lighter than wool, I've had a tendancy to shy away from wool products except for items like Merino Wool socks for hiking (I use a synthetic liner sock).
I find it kind of strange that since I've stopped using most wool clothing products for several year now, I've seemed to have developed a slight allergy to wearing most wool now. Wonder if it's the lanoline in the wool fibers? Even hand lotion that contains lanoline causes a reaction.I've heard that it is the lanolin that people are often allergic to. Fortunately I don't have that problem. Perhaps its because I never really gave it up. I use thinsulate on some things, like gloves and hats, but I have now gone back to plain old wool. It's amazing the difference between a really decent pair of wool mitts compared to a ragg wool. Merino has its place in the really thin layers, but in a medium sweater I prefer a local sheep wool that is fairly course, preferable something locally hand knit. I think it helps too add some lanolin when you do wash it. Anyhow, works for me.
_terrapin_
02-05-2008, 00:08
Well, chalk up one more advantage to synthetics -- none of the allergic issues. I'd rather deal with the stink than the itching.
Well, I do have to admit that wool does handle the "funk" problems better than synthetics :)
take-a-knee
02-05-2008, 00:12
For all you retro guys I have a Sierra Designs 60/40 Parka for sale, state of the art stuff.
I got my last wool sweater for $6 at Frenchies.
Oh, JAK, you've got to let them know about Frenchies. Too much Canadiana at a time. 'Scuse me, too much bluenose at one time. First the NDP and now Frenchies.
Those army surplus wool sweaters are pretty good. My medium sweaters are about the same weight. I have a collection, some cheap, some better. I recently bought a medium sweater made in PEI using a fairly coarse wool similar to Briggs and Little and its amazing. I can wear it directly on the skin or over a merino skin layer. With a thin nylon shell over that I'm in pretty decent shape sub zero, but I'll bring another layer as well if I'm to be out for a few days in winter. I usually overdo it but its better to be safe. A 100wt fleece that can be worn over your sweater and under your wind layer is good insurance. I have an oversized wind layer for when I bring an overlayer. I've thought of using both wind layers, with one in between the sweater and the fleece, but I'm not sure it would be weight justified. Wicked packable though.
Oh, JAK, you've got to let them know about Frenchies. Too much Canadiana at a time. 'Scuse me, too much bluenose at one time. First the NDP and now Frenchies.LOL. I'm not sure I can completely explain what Frenchies is all about. It's like Marden's in Maine, only just clothes and books, and they are used, but sometimes they still have the tags on. You gotta dig sometimes to find something decent in wool, but when you do its about 1/2 to 1/3 the price of something decent on sale at Marden's. Got a pair of light brushed nylon hiking pants for $8. The one in Sussex New Brunswick seems to have more wool, and the clothes are better sorted. It's next to the Blue Bird restraunt where you can get a really decent breakfast for a family of 3 for $15.
I think the Kiwis still wear a lot of wool when tramping.
_terrapin_
02-05-2008, 00:28
Kiwis :confused:
New Zealanders, I think. Where Merino wool comes from.
New Zealanders, I think. Where Merino wool comes from.
Correct. National bird. Aussies are into Merino in a big way now, too.
Those army surplus wool sweaters are pretty good.
I figure if any knows how to stay warm in winter, it is the Swedes. :)
I also wear a wool hat, wool liner gloves and ragg wool socks. I received merino wool long underwear as a gift. Damn..that's a lot of wool for winter use. :) For winter, I find wool is more breathable and forgiving (of sweat) than synthetics. The snow also does not soak into wool like synthetics. Plus, I get a lot of compliments on my retro sweater. :)
In three-season backpacking, though, I tend to shy away from a wool sweater and hat as it is heavier and bulkier (i.e. I am not wearing the layers all the time). Since it tends to rain more and snow less (Even in Colorado), the wool gets wet and takes forever to dry and is heavy when wet. As always, YMMV.
The exception are the wool army liner gloves which I wear all year around.
Finally, I received this coat (http://www.filson.com/sm-double-mackinaw-cruiser--pi-2092288.html) as a 30th birthday present from Dad. (Hardass when I was younger, mellowing out as he approaches retirement) Too heavy and bulky for the field, but really nice and classic for everything else. Lots of compliments on that, too.
So, like JAK, I'm a fan of wool at times. :)
Yeah, they have alot of merino wool. Originally it was from Spain I think. But some of the best wool is mixed breed or a more northern breed, depending on the purpose. The reason is that you don't want something that felts too easily. I wouldn't want a fishermans sweater or a pair of mitts out of merino wool. You really only need the superfine wool for the skin layers and such. I think a medium wool sweater you wear all the time, or a pair of wool mitts should be a coarser virgin wool than merino. I like 75%merino wool and 23% nylon and 2% spandex for my thinnest socks, but a coarser wool for my ski socks. Different wools for different deeds. Also synthetics have their place. Wear the wool and pack the synthetic as extra layers. Wool is best closer to the skin if you can handle it.
Feral Bill
02-05-2008, 00:47
For all you retro guys I have a Sierra Designs 60/40 Parka for sale, state of the art stuff.
Size and color?
Perhaps I'm comparing cheap merino to top quality local wool. Not sure. I know the length of the fibre and number of twists and stuff matters also. It's amazing when you put on a really nice pair of wool mitts or a medium wool sweater made out of really good wool. Not too thick and fluff, but really warm even when its wet and a little breeze is blowing through it. I had a really light and fluffy alpaca sweater that was amazingly warm for its weight, but it finally got a little felted, especially in the back. Might have been from wearing it driving back from skiing. I've also learned not to wash or dry my good wool sweaters, even if I get way with it once or twice. I just wait unti they are noticeably dirty, then I just get them wet and then let them dry with the least amount of fuss. Still learning though. I do wash my socks and anything I buy cheap.
doggiebag
02-05-2008, 00:50
:::Doggiebag is morbidly curious at the slow descent of JAK from wool proponent to scary obcessive sheep/merino wool fetish type radical:eek::::
Finally, I received this coat (http://www.filson.com/sm-double-mackinaw-cruiser--pi-2092288.html) as a 30th birthday present from Dad.
The name comes form way back. We used to call any heavy wool shirt a Macinaw. That was the standard bush outfit. Not so many pockets, though.
With just a wool shirt, tight weave, and a pair of wool pants, you could survive just about anything, if you knew what to do. It acts as a wind barrier and an outer insulation layer. Pretty rain proof too. If you get cold, you stuff the thing with any sort of insulation available, like leaves and fresh duff, or spare clothing. You come out dirty and itchy, but alive and kicking.
The standard sleeping system to go with it was a Hudson's Bay blanket. The more points, the better. Two blankets on a spruce bough mattress and you were good down to 40 below. That's in the great north woods. If you get cold in that setup, you burrow into the snow some more.
Actually, it is easier in the dead cold of winter than in the wet cold of spring-fall. Wet is the killer. Then you need a fire.
The other killer is running out of food. If you have enough food to stay active, you won't freeze with a good basic setup. If you have to stop and can't make a fire, then you need lots of big, fluffy insulation. You can get that by making a pile-of-insulation hut, but if you aren't permitted to disturb stuff, you need your -20 bag and shelter system.
All this tech fabric stuff is just to make sure you don't really need a fire, or to cut living wood.
The only reason I'm writing this is so people know that even if you get caught short, there is no reason to die of exposure out there. There's always a way to get through the night if you really have to, and you can make fire, and cut stuff up. Knife and fire tools.
taildragger
02-05-2008, 00:55
Wool or army field liner for my next warm layer. Hard to beat the price and the versatility of either.
Geese just cost too much, I'll leave them in my sleeping bag
The name comes form way back. We used to call any heavy wool shirt a Macinaw. That was the standard bush outfit. Not so many pockets, though.
With just a wool shirt, tight weave, and a pair of wool pants, you could survive just about anything, if you knew what to do. It acts as a wind barrier and an outer insulation layer. Pretty rain proof too. If you get cold, you stuff the thing with any sort of insulation available, like leaves and fresh duff, or spare clothing. You come out dirty and itchy, but alive and kicking.
The standard sleeping system to go with it was a Hudson's Bay blanket. The more points, the better. Two blankets on a spruce bough mattress and you were good down to 40 below. That's in the great north woods. If you get cold in that setup, you burrow into the snow some more.
Actually, it is easier in the dead cold of winter than in the wet cold of spring-fall. Wet is the killer. Then you need a fire.
The other killer is running out of food. If you have enough food to stay active, you won't freeze with a good basic setup. If you have to stop and can't make a fire, then you need lots of big, fluffy insulation. You can get that by making a pile-of-insulation hut, but if you aren't permitted to disturb stuff, you need your -20 bag and shelter system.
All this tech fabric stuff is just to make sure you don't really need a fire, or to cut living wood.
The only reason I'm writing this is so people know that even if you get caught short, there is no reason to die of exposure out there. There's always a way to get through the night if you really have to, and you can make fire, and cut stuff up. Knife and fire tools.
Yep. Did sleep with a couple of Hudson Bay Blankets instead of having a sleeping bag way back when, but this 'ol mind can't remember what the point of the blankets were hehe. Pretty warm under a brush lean-to. Great times, but I wouldn't want to go back. Thanks for the memories.
doggiebag
02-05-2008, 01:08
The name comes form way back. We used to call any heavy wool shirt a Macinaw. That was the standard bush outfit. Not so many pockets, though.
With just a wool shirt, tight weave, and a pair of wool pants, you could survive just about anything, if you knew what to do. It acts as a wind barrier and an outer insulation layer. Pretty rain proof too. If you get cold, you stuff the thing with any sort of insulation available, like leaves and fresh duff, or spare clothing. You come out dirty and itchy, but alive and kicking.
The standard sleeping system to go with it was a Hudson's Bay blanket. The more points, the better. Two blankets on a spruce bough mattress and you were good down to 40 below. That's in the great north woods. If you get cold in that setup, you burrow into the snow some more.
Actually, it is easier in the dead cold of winter than in the wet cold of spring-fall. Wet is the killer. Then you need a fire.
The other killer is running out of food. If you have enough food to stay active, you won't freeze with a good basic setup. If you have to stop and can't make a fire, then you need lots of big, fluffy insulation. You can get that by making a pile-of-insulation hut, but if you aren't permitted to disturb stuff, you need your -20 bag and shelter system.
All this tech fabric stuff is just to make sure you don't really need a fire, or to cut living wood.
The only reason I'm writing this is so people know that even if you get caught short, there is no reason to die of exposure out there. There's always a way to get through the night if you really have to, and you can make fire, and cut stuff up. Knife and fire tools.
Pretty hard core stuff. The other thing to remember is in a survival situation like you mentioned is the individual involved needs to consciously make a decision to survive the conditions you mentioned. What you describe is actually a fight to survive - which may include not sleeping to keep the fire stoked. I've had the pleasure of having to endure similar conditions ... but more freezing rain than snow. Scary stuff - that's why I haul a 4 season tent despite it's weight during winter outings.
:::Doggiebag is morbidly curious at the slow descent of JAK from wool proponent to scary obcessive sheep/merino wool fetish type radical:eek::::I come from a time and place where men are men, and sheep are safe, and not worried. :D
Pretty hard core stuff.
I don't want to go on much; this horse is pretty near dead. What we think of as hard core was the way all the woods people lived back when there weren't so many people on the land. This kind of woods lore is just the way the native people did it as a part of their everyday lives while hunting, trapping and living. The didn't have HB blankets before we came; they used skins in just the same way. They also tolerated cold in a way that we tend to feel is intolerable. Being cold is not the end of the world: it's being alive in the cold. When they stopped to make camp, they used the materials available to make camp. We don't do that any more because there are too many of us for the land to support. The only reason this is of more than passing interest is that it is what we are now doing to the whole world. As someone noted in WB a while ago, we use these tech garments and shelter systems in order to transfer the load on the land from our cherished trails and parks to some other place, a factory in an industrial wasteland. There is a great cost to this walk in the woods. Not to beat on it, but someone is paying that cost. Who do you suppose that is, in the end?
I also wear a wool hat, wool liner gloves and ragg wool socks. I received merino wool long underwear as a gift. Damn..that's a lot of wool for winter use. :) For winter, I find wool is more breathable and forgiving (of sweat) than synthetics. The snow also does not soak into wool like synthetics. Plus, I get a lot of compliments on my retro sweater. :)
In three-season backpacking, though, I tend to shy away from a wool sweater and hat as it is heavier and bulkier (i.e. I am not wearing the layers all the time). Since it tends to rain more and snow less (Even in Colorado), the wool gets wet and takes forever to dry and is heavy when wet.I'm with you...wool is awesome, keeps you warm when wet. I don't use it when hiking though. Takes too long to dry out and it's heavier.
The name comes form way back. We used to call any heavy wool shirt a Macinaw. That was the standard bush outfit. Not so many pockets, though.
Well, the jacket design (http://www.filson.com/corp/index.jsp?page=aboutus) is essentially going on 90 yrs old. Gotta love the classics...
I really do think wool is great for winter for the reasons that have been said. The coat is my go-to coat of choice for everyday winter use. It is snowing crazy out now. When I walked to the grocery store, I had a fine layer of snow on top...but was warm and dry inside.
re: Army liner pants
They rock. I have a pair and use them in shoulder season "social backpacks" and/or camping. As with the liner jacket - light, warm and cheap!
take-a-knee
02-05-2008, 01:50
Size and color?
Forest green/tan liner. Size Large. $30 shipped CONUS. It is a nice jacket, if you scotchguard it, it'll keep you dry in a light rain for a couple of hours. It looks snazzy, just like the one Gerald McCraney wore in that TV show about the PI brothers.
scavenger
02-05-2008, 02:29
JAK I like wool sweaters too but i often choose my micropuff pullover for its windproof qualities, rather than doing the sweater-windshirt combo. maybe just since my micropuff looks better than my windshirt haha.
I already have a WM flight jacket...and it keeps me warm in camp, at arrrival and/or breaks, and allows my WM Ultralite bag to go to lower temps at nights...or to be layered, with my Marmot Precip...to protect the down jacket, and protect me in camp, against campfire sparks and water damage to the down!
I don't have to worry about sending it home, as it is a perfect 10.5 oz pillow in the spring/summer months and if temps drop at unexpected times I ALWAYS have protection!!!
Several hikers on this site have already documented this info on their thruhikes!! :sun
Wise Old Owl
02-10-2008, 20:55
Correct. National bird. Aussies are into Merino in a big way now, too.
So are the Americans. Check out Joseph A Banks each Christmas as they have their Merino Wool Sweater Sale. There's a picture, hiking the trail and pilling at the same time.