View Full Version : How to treat water?
I'm doing newfound gap to davenport gap this weekend in the smokies. It's still going to be below freezing at night and I'm not sure what to do about treating water.
I've got a katahdin hiker filter, but everyone says that the water thats left inside it will freeze and crack the filter. Plus, apparently tablets don't work well in cold weather either.
So what do I do? Boil water?
MTS
Wise Old Owl
03-05-2008, 00:47
keep the filter cylinder, a boiled water nagalene bottle, and your gas cylinder inside the sleeping bag between your legs.
I would put the filter in your sleeping bag with you to keep it from freezing. Boiling water would also work. But while boiling does kill microorganisms, it does nothing for the taste of water. The filter does.
I use my Katadyn Hiker filter most times, but at times I boil the water. Both will work. If weight is an issue, boiling may be lighter, it depends on how you heat the water. Wood fueled stoves shine at boiling water as you just pickup fuel as you hike. Even in the winter you can easily find good burnable fuel.
2 drops bleach per liter, wait a half hour. Weather, shmeather. Also approved by the FDA. Clorox says 4 drops, but hydrologists say 2 is fine.
"According to the manufacturer, it takes four (4) drops of Clorox "Regular" Bleach and thirty minutes to purify 1 x quart/liter of "clear water" for safe consumption. And if the water doesn't have a slight bleach odor to it after waiting 30 minutes, repeat the process. To confirm this dosage, call the Clorox Bleach toll-free "consumer hotline" at 1-800-292-2200. "
http://www.therangerdigest.com/Tips___Tricks/Filter_and_Purifying_Water/body_filter_and_purifying_water.htm
fiddlehead
03-05-2008, 02:59
The colder the water, the longer you should wait. I only use one drop (bleach) if any (rarely i feel the need to put in any) that includes cow country hiking out west.
Got sick once, in '95 in CT when another hiker got my water for me from the spring.
Lone Wolf
03-05-2008, 07:42
I'm doing newfound gap to davenport gap this weekend in the smokies. It's still going to be below freezing at night and I'm not sure what to do about treating water.
I've got a katahdin hiker filter, but everyone says that the water thats left inside it will freeze and crack the filter. Plus, apparently tablets don't work well in cold weather either.
So what do I do? Boil water?
MTS
drink it as is. no need to filter the water
Steripen is my choice. I hate the aggravation of pumping. With 4 "AA" lithium batteries the weight is 6.5 oz. Lithium batteries do very well in the cold. No need to sleep with a dripping wet filter in your sleeping bag. Occasionally the Steripen will not activate if the water sensors are wet (damp from humidity even). The solution: take one ply of toilet paper and carefully dry the two sensors and UV bulb afterward. It will then fire right up when inserted in the water.
Crawbear
03-05-2008, 08:07
bleach! 2 drops per liter...oh someone already said that. that's all i used for my whole thruhike last year.
Thanks everybody. I'll probably just stick with the filter and put it in my sleeping bag like some of you said.
taildragger
03-05-2008, 08:40
Open bottle, fill bottle, drink water, enjoy the cool crisp taste of untreated water. And watch your hands, you're more likely to get the runs from that.
Tipi Walter
03-05-2008, 09:49
Keeping the filter between your legs in the bag won't really work since once the filter is used it will contain water and eventually(like during the day)you'll be hiking and I doubt you'll be hiking with the filter still between your legs.:)
So the thing will freeze up sometime during the day. My solution for winter camping is either to drink straight from the source or boil. Boiling is no problem as I like hot tea anyway and I like hot water bottles for warmth, etc.
Keeping the filter between your legs in the bag won't really work since once the filter is used it will contain water and eventually(like during the day)you'll be hiking and I doubt you'll be hiking with the filter still between your legs.:)
So the thing will freeze up sometime during the day.
That's a good point, but I think it should be above freezing during the day so it won't be a problem. I agree though, a month or so ago that would be true.
slowandlow
03-05-2008, 15:52
drink it as is. no need to filter the water
I agree. That water is fine.
DesertMTB
03-05-2008, 16:00
I agree. That water is fine.
Cuz it is up high on a ridge?
Johnny Swank
03-05-2008, 16:03
I'd carry a tiny (breath dropper) container of bleach in case you're feeling particularly uneasy about the water, but drink straight up otherwise. YMMV.
envirodiver
03-05-2008, 16:24
After filtering your water pull the inflow hose out of the water and continue to pump it. Pump it until no water comes out and for a while longer. It helps to get most of the water out of the filter so when the moisture remaining freezes it won't crack the filter element.
Tipi Walter
03-05-2008, 17:31
After filtering your water pull the inflow hose out of the water and continue to pump it. Pump it until no water comes out and for a while longer. It helps to get most of the water out of the filter so when the moisture remaining freezes it won't crack the filter element.
The only way I've found to get all the water out of the filter element is to let it airdry after a trip. Even the ceremic elements will hold water like a clay flowerpot and crack if the temps go low enough. Would be better to not even use it.
The Katadyn Hiker and Hiker pro filter element is even worse in this regard as it hold water no matter how much you drain it. And the water will freeze inside and tear apart the tiny pores.
I froze my First Need once. It worked fine once I thawed it out under my coat. I always pump it dry, as the above post notes. I've used it in -20 temps without problems. I sleep with it now when it gets cold.
envirodiver
03-05-2008, 18:44
The only way I've found to get all the water out of the filter element is to let it airdry after a trip. Even the ceremic elements will hold water like a clay flowerpot and crack if the temps go low enough. Would be better to not even use it.
Agreed Tipi, but you don't have to get all of the water out and fullyu dry to keep the freezing from cracking the carbon filtration media in the First need. I just keep air pumping it until nothing comes out and then a bit longer. I've had it down to single digit temps with no problems or cracks. You can check the first need using food colored water. If there are cracks the color passes through, if not the color is adsorbed by the carbon.
Cuz it is up high on a ridge?
The springs are pristine, and yes, they are above any surrounding populations. There's just no need to treat the water at those particular shelters. There's no point at which it can reasonably be contaminated.
...apparently tablets don't work well in cold weather either.
Stands to reason, chemical reaction rates decrease a lot with temp, so much so that you can reverse many reactions by cooling them down or heating them up (depending on if they needed heat to begin with).
I try to treat water nice... maybe take it out to dinner once in a while, buy it flowers, complement it as often as possible.
In cold weather, (and now in hot weather, because I got sick of carrying filters), I use this...
http://www.rei.com/product/671113
It's a chemical water treatment. Basically turns your water into city water, and is only 2 ounces when full. A bottle of this lasts a good long while. I had a bottle last for around 900 miles on the PCT.
Granted, at high elevation, I tended not to treat my water nearly as much.
Speer Carrier
03-06-2008, 10:37
I've been following these discussions regarding the relative merits of not treating water at all vs treating with chemicals vs filtering for some time now.
I've ruled out not treating at all. Although some have argued treating it isn't necessary at all (Lone Wolf) and some have said no problem at higher elevations, I'm not totally convinced. Reason- a study that was done in Georgia by the forest service some years back indicated that intestinal problem causing micro-organisms exist in every water source along the AT in Georgia. I would think that Georgia is not unique in this regard.
I'd like to dump the filter in favor of treating, for weight saving reasons but perhaps you guys that do treat rather than filter can answer this question for me. How easy is it to get water into your container in these drought conditions? Last October while hiking in the Smokeys, we were pumping water out of pools that were no more than one inch deep, and six inches across. We were able to fill our containers pretty easily. However, those who were "dipping" had all sorts of problems. In fact, we ended up letting people use our pump and filters so that they could more easily get water.
warren doyle
03-06-2008, 12:03
Don't have to treat your water.
DesertMTB
03-06-2008, 12:06
I've been following these discussions regarding the relative merits of not treating water at all vs treating with chemicals vs filtering for some time now.
I've ruled out not treating at all. Although some have argued treating it isn't necessary at all (Lone Wolf) and some have said no problem at higher elevations, I'm not totally convinced. Reason- a study that was done in Georgia by the forest service some years back indicated that intestinal problem causing micro-organisms exist in every water source along the AT in Georgia. I would think that Georgia is not unique in this regard.
I'd like to dump the filter in favor of treating, for weight saving reasons but perhaps you guys that do treat rather than filter can answer this question for me. How easy is it to get water into your container in these drought conditions? Last October while hiking in the Smokeys, we were pumping water out of pools that were no more than one inch deep, and six inches across. We were able to fill our containers pretty easily. However, those who were "dipping" had all sorts of problems. In fact, we ended up letting people use our pump and filters so that they could more easily get water.
The OP isn't talking about Georgia
Don't have to treat your water.
For some people this is true. For others, it is not. Some bodies are better able to fight off bacteria/virus than others... just depends on the person.
Speer Carrier
03-06-2008, 12:59
The OP isn't talking about Georgia
I know the first post was asking about the Smokeys, but my question isn't so much about treating or not treating, or even where the source is. My question is, how difficult is it for people who don't use pump/filters to obtain water when the source isn't much more than a small puddle? And, if it is difficult, is it worth it not to have the pump?
For many years I never treated water. I think my immune system rose to the occasion, although I did have numerous cases of mild gastronomical maladies, but nothing serious enough to change my habit of not treating my water.
Years later, at my new wife's urging, I bought a First Needs filter, mainly to satisfy her concern. I used it and hated the hard work of pumping (as if hiking isn't exhausting enough). I wound up carrying the filter (to please my wife - she doesn't hike) but never using it.
Then a couple of years ago on a week-long hiking trip, I camped near a shelter which was nearly full that night, and everyone was using Steripens. Looked like fireflies at dusk! :) I bought one and used it on my next trip and have ever since.
I don't like the idea of adding chemicals of any kind to my water . . . from both a taste and long term effects of what that chemical might do. The FDA's endorsement as to "approved" or "safe" does not lessen my reluctance one bit. The FDA has been WRONG so many times, and has completely changed their position on things far too often for me to trust them at all.
So while a couple of drops of bleach seems like the light weight, easy, no fuss choice for treating water, I'll err on the side of caution regarding long-term effects of bleach intake into the digestive system. I prefer the tasteless treatment of death to bacteria by UV frequency, which other than killing organisms, induces nothing into the water. The UV bombardment method has been tested 99.99 percent effective at killing all bacteria/organisms in water.
Since using my Steripen for five hikes now, I have had zero intestinal discomforts on those hikes. The proof is in the results! ;)
I know the first post was asking about the Smokeys, but my question isn't so much about treating or not treating, or even where the source is. My question is, how difficult is it for people who don't use pump/filters to obtain water when the source isn't much more than a small puddle? And, if it is difficult, is it worth it not to have the pump?I always make sure that in addition to my large water reservoir and Nalgene water bottle, I have a cup that can be used for very meager water source retrieval. I have had to use my kitty box trowel a few times to dig a pool in a very slow moving nearly dry stream. After exercising patience, the dirt settled and I was able to cup out plenty of water that was very suitable for drinking. I've used leaves or hollow twigs to position just right in a skimpy water source. Sometimes it just takes ingenuity! ;)
In colder weather, just wait longer for chemical treatment. Or you could warm up the water a bit on your stove prior to chemical treatment if that would make you feel better. No need to actually boil it, just add some warm water to the near freezing water that you want to treat. When you cook dinner, it will take care of the contaminants that are in your cooking pot.
In old days, a sierra cup worked FANTASTIC for dipping water from shallow pools, catching dripping spring water off rock faces, and also for dipping hot water out of your cooking pot.
Since I have given up the sierra cup, now I just make sure I have an extra zip lock to use for dipping. The stiffened zipper opening allows it to work fairly well. Not as good as the sierra cup, but reasonable.
Jim Adams
03-06-2008, 15:24
Open bottle, fill bottle, drink water, enjoy the cool crisp taste of untreated water. And watch your hands, you're more likely to get the runs from that.
Very, very true!:-?
geek
Hikes in Rain
03-06-2008, 16:17
[quote=Lyle;560265]In old days, a sierra cup worked FANTASTIC for dipping water from shallow pools, catching dripping spring water off rock faces, and also for dipping hot water out of your cooking pot.
It still is. Too useful for me to give up. Mine's gotta be 30 years old now!
Since I have given up the sierra cup . . .I never did buy into the trendy sierra cup thing, and after seeing and picking up one at REI the other day, I can see why you've given yours up. It must weight at least 1 lb. :eek:
In old days, a sierra cup worked FANTASTIC for dipping water from shallow pools, catching dripping spring water off rock faces, and also for dipping hot water out of your cooking pot.
Since I have given up the sierra cup, now I just make sure I have an extra zip lock to use for dipping. The stiffened zipper opening allows it to work fairly well. Not as good as the sierra cup, but reasonable.
I have not used a sierra cup for years, while they are well made they burn your mouth when drinking. The same thing happens with the cup for my Svea 123.
warren doyle
03-06-2008, 16:42
My Sierra cup is my water filter.
Hikes in Rain
03-08-2008, 09:23
Not to hijack the thread, but it sounds like I may have to rethink my old Sierra cup. What do you guys normally use for coffee, dipping water, excavating bedrooms, etc? The Sierra is pretty heavy.
The bottom of my JetBoil cover doubles as a cup. Ate oatmeal out of it last time out. If I need to dig or pan for gold (Sierra cup . . . get it? Oh forget it!) I use a plastic trowel.
The Sierra cup, from what I've heard from others, never having owned/used one is terrible for drinking hot liquids. You burn your lip on it at first and then the liquid cools way too fast in cold weather. The cozy on my JetBoil cup keeps coffee nice and hot for long enough to drink it reasonably slow. Otherwise, I would suggest a light weight plastic coffee mug with a lid with sipping hole in it.
Hikes in Rain
03-08-2008, 13:03
I've never burned my lip. The wire handle wicks the heat away. I'll check into the plastic ones, though, and perhaps retire the old, faithful cup. (Or not! I still like it!)
Also very convenient with the cheap, light weight plastic lidded coffee mug, you can store all your coffee supplies: coffee, creamer, splenda - in ziploc bags right inside the mug. Makes setup/tear down of the coffee ritual a snap! ;)
Re filter: on most filters you can "over pump" them to rid most of the water, should reduce the chance of cracking.
Re tablets & etc: if able, warm the water a bit first, then add whatever treatment you choose, this will cut treatment time, probably by about the same amount of time it takes to set up your stove, heat the water, put the stove away.
Re treating water at all: for years I filtered religously, thought I needed to. On my upcomming 25 day section hike I'm starting out with about 20 tablets of some kind of treatment. :rolleyes:Each treatment is "add 2 tablets per ltr of water". I figure I'll have about 20 tablets in my pack when I get home. I am SERIOUSLY considering leaving them home, it'll save me a whole Ounce! :p Plus, last trip I didn't treat at all, yes there were buggies in the water (Known fact) but I didn't get sick, so: Why bother? :cool:
I do carry a water filter but also carry one of those small plastic scoops from a detergent box that I can use to scoop water from an extremely shallow source and use it to fill one of my other containers to either filter or treat with AquaMira. Yes, the scoop is fragile, but very light weight and will last if one is carefull with it.
The springs are pristine, and yes, they are above any surrounding populations. There's just no need to treat the water at those particular shelters. There's no point at which it can reasonably be contaminated.
Can't it be contaminated by animals defecating in the stream??
Panzer
...I have had to use my kitty box trowel a few times to dig a pool in a very slow moving nearly dry stream.... ;)
Well if your going to use a kitty trowel in the stream I'm going to keep on using my filter.:)
Panzer
Well if your going to use a kitty trowel in the stream I'm going to keep on using my filter.:)
PanzerNot to fear, nothin' but mother earth on that thar thing. I use it to dig the hole, I use a stick to cover it up! ;) :)
drink it as is. no need to filter the water
That's what I did all the way through the Smokies last week. All of the water sources I used were springs.
There is no shortage of water anywhere on the AT in the park.
Can't it be contaminated by animals defecating in the stream??
Panzer
Perhaps, but it then becomes diluted with so much water that the tiny amount you ingest likely want hurt much. It is like the rat turds that are in the cereal products we buy and consume. A certain percentage is actually allowed...but it is tiny as well, not enough to cause harm. Someone did a nice piece on what we drink from our taps and showed that it likely was not completely pure, either. We have been brainwashed, perhaps by fear of lawsuit, that all water not from our taps is bad, when most of the mountain stream water so many filter, could be purer than that from their taps.
Along the Florida Trail, about half way between Clearwater camp ground and Juniper Springs is a well drilled by the Forest service into the Florida Aquifer which is free flowing and capped with on-off spigot. The water from it is some of the best tasting, crystal clear water I have ever tasted. But beside it is an ominous sign, put there by the same forest service stating that it was non-potable and should be filtered or treated, the same water that bubbles up at a constant 72F feeding Silver Springs, Salt Springs, Juniper, Alexander and others throughout the area.
Perhaps, but it then becomes diluted with so much water that the tiny amount you ingest likely want hurt much.
Still, I was under the impression that there were documented cases of people getting Giradia from drinking untreated water. That is, people who after getting sick, went to the doctor and was told it was Giradia.
Panzer
Still, I was under the impression that there were documented cases of people getting Giradia from drinking untreated water. That is, people who after getting sick, went to the doctor and was told it was Giradia.
Panzer
I suppose that if the sampling involves a large enough quantity of folks, some few would get most any affliction. I remain convinced that most mountain water is better than the water in some folk's taps:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080309/ap_on_re_us/pharmawater_i
"A vast array of pharmaceuticals — including antibiotics, anti-convulsants, mood stabilizers and sex hormones — have been found in the drinking water supplies of at least 41 million Americans, an Associated Press investigation shows."
Now that is scary!
Hay, I could use some of that stuff..:):):)
Panzer
Still, I was under the impression that there were documented cases of people getting Giradia from drinking untreated water. That is, people who after getting sick, went to the doctor and was told it was Giradia.
PanzerNearly everyone who does any significant amount of backpacking and chooses not to treat their drinking water experiences at least mild forms of some type of digestive track symptoms. It could be simple excessive gas or mild indigestion. I know I did during the many years I did not treat my water. It is also likely that a certain "tolerance" can be built up. If that is all that you experience, it does not necessarily mean that no harm is being wrought on your digestive track.
Like all who swear by their love of the "natural taste" of "pure mountain streams," I too love it. That is why, for me, the Steripen UV treatment is the perfect solution. It causes zero change to the taste of the water, while rendering 99.99% elimination of any lasting harmful effects that contaminated water can cause. Personally I don't like rolling the dice of chance when not absolutely necessary. We only get issued one body and one trip through this earthly life, reaping what we sow. But to each his/her own! ;)