View Full Version : a cryer every year
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 00:03
The nonthruhiker will bring it up in short order in many or most cases.
Non-thru-hikers go around asking people if they're thru-hikers? Or do you mean on the trail while you're hiking?
2) Why should any person care what any other person thinks about anything, especially someone they're close to?Do you think people won't like or respect you if you didn't finish a thru-hike? I didn't finish a mini-thru-hike last year simply because it was too hot and there were too many ticks and I wasn't enjoying it. I don't mind telling anyone. Things in life don't always work out the way you want them to.
minnesotasmith
03-07-2008, 00:12
MS just because you lived in your mom's basement and had the time to take a year to hike NOBO, doesn't make you hiker cum laude.:rolleyes:
Actually, I saved up the money for my thruhike by working on oil rigs in all 4 seasons in Colorado, Alaska (Kenai Peninsula and the North Slope), and offshore in the Gulf of Mexico. Where do you get your hiking funding, from an office job?
Matteroo
03-07-2008, 00:22
wooooo kenai peninsula
I stayed in Soldotna and caught some great king salmon in the kenai and kasilof rivers, then some good dolly varden in the anchor river.
one of my favorite peninsulas.
fiddlehead
03-07-2008, 00:33
You talk like you did it for the patch. (and seem to belittle those who didn't hike as much as you did)
Some of us hike cause we like it! (whether that's a day hike, weekend, one month, or 15 years.)
One friging thru and you're saying that those who didn't do what you did might as well have not even hiked! Amazing! Real men hike SOBO (and ford the kennebec!)
Some of us hike cause we like it! (whether that's a day hike, weekend, one month, or 15 years.)
That's what I always thought. Am I missing something?;)
Actually, I saved up the money for my thruhike by working on oil rigs in all 4 seasons in Colorado, Alaska (Kenai Peninsula and the North Slope), and offshore in the Gulf of Mexico. Where do you get your hiking funding, from an office job?
That's nice, but what's your point? You have something against office people?
minnesotasmith
03-07-2008, 00:42
That's nice, but what's your point? You have something against office people?
I was refuting the "mommy's basement" baseless slur. I lived away working prior to my thruhike (and do now). I only was at my parents' for a short time before my thruhike (at their invitation) BC they live within 7 hours of the AT, vs. the 20+ where I live now. I also stayed overnight at my sister's right before hitting the Trail at Amicalola 2/14/06 BC she then lived under 70 miles from the AT. So?
I was refuting the "mommy's basement" baseless slur. I lived away working prior to my thruhike (and do now). I only was at my parents' for a short time before my thruhike (at their invitation) BC they live within 7 hours of the AT, vs. the 20+ where I live now. I also stayed overnight at my sister's right before hitting the Trail at Amicalola 2/14/06 BC she then lived under 70 miles from the AT. So?
Ok, so your response to mommy's basement slur is a slur to office workers?
Matteroo
03-07-2008, 00:50
just hit reload every 20 seconds its better than TV-you can take the story line where you want it to go, use your imagination for details unseen here, and there are no commercials!
just hit reload every 20 seconds its better than TV-you can take the story line where you want it to go, use your imagination for details unseen here, and there are no commercials!
Actually, there are commercials, lots. Everyone is peddling some idea or another here. Not many buyers, but lots of ideas. ;)
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 00:57
This is like PBS. If you want HBO, you have to join the politics forum.
This is like PBS. If you want HBO, you have to join the politics forum.
When did Jerry Springer move to HBO?
Jarhead16
03-07-2008, 01:46
I only got as far as the journal entry where they ate hummus. Never trust anyone who eats hummus. Blech.
Don't you mean, never trust anyone who eats fig "newman's"?:D
freefall
03-07-2008, 02:03
You are only a Thru-hiker if you have completed the trail in one hike. Otherwise you are a section hiker.
You are only a Thru-hiker if you have completed the trail in one hike. Otherwise you are a section hiker.
Section hikers of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your chevrons!
minnesotasmith
03-07-2008, 02:22
Ok, so your response to mommy's basement slur is a slur to office workers?
I dislike their JOBS. I may have to bust my tail at times physically they may never once have to do on the job, and I work hours away from my home for weeks at a time but...
I can walk 20' out my door, and I'm in wilderness in the Rocky Mountains. There are snow-covered mountains in every direction. That's worth a lot IMO.
Don't you mean, never trust anyone who eats fig "newman's"?:DYou mean these? :eek::D
I dislike their JOBS. I may have to bust my tail at times physically they may never once have to do on the job, and I work hours away from my home for weeks at a time but...
I can walk 20' out my door, and I'm in wilderness in the Rocky Mountains. There are snow-covered mountains in every direction. That's worth a lot IMO.You're certainly entitled to your opinion, MS. And in all honesty, office jobs aren't my cup o' tea either. But do bear in mind that those office jobs you dislike are the people who make sure you're paid for your hard work and make sure you have your benefits; ie: insurance, profit sharing, etc. :D
Survivor Dave
03-07-2008, 06:41
Really!! Need anymore be said?:eek:
Are those Vasques or maybe Danners?
http://209.200.85.146/trailjournals/photos/6834/tj6834%5F021508%5F112003%5F295467.jpg
May not care for what I said, but my point still stands unrefuted. Non LD-hikers WILL in my experience commonly ask very early on in a conversation about a thruhike attempt if you finished, and will conclude in most cases you didn't get everything out of it that you could have if you didn't finish.
As evidence for this, think of how Bryson is routinely hooted at here for only having done 1/3 or less of the trail, and never having stayed one night in a hiker hostel. Same for how Warren Doyle gets it for only slackpacking on the AT, sleeping in a vehicle the bulk of the time instead of in the outdoors (aside from all his stealing that he's proud of).
Robert Rubin IMO put it well when he said that thruhike finishers seemed to more of the time have found what they were looking for on the AT than those that bailed. I'll buy that.
Oh, and the mods don't look kindly on threatening physical violence, FYI (at least when done to forum members not on the "outs" WRT forum politics).
And I would assume the mods don't like it either when you blantantly accuse someone of stealing..............
I dislike their JOBS. I may have to bust my tail at times physically they may never once have to do on the job, and I work hours away from my home for weeks at a time but...
I can walk 20' out my door, and I'm in wilderness in the Rocky Mountains. There are snow-covered mountains in every direction. That's worth a lot IMO.
You're out of your mind MS, those Rockies don't have squat on these here Appalachians..................
And I would assume the mods don't like it either when you blantantly accuse someone of stealing..............
Accuse? He (WD) openly ADMITS and BRAGS about it! (Unless, of course you do not consider going into a restaraunt and eating off the tables stealing)
Accuse? He (WD) openly ADMITS and BRAGS about it! (Unless, of course you do not consider going into a restaraunt and eating off the tables stealing)
...or paying for one movie and viewing two or three, bypassing gates or pay stations, etc...
Cheap is cheap but stealing is stealing. Nothing much lower than a thief.
Almost There
03-07-2008, 08:50
I dislike their JOBS. I may have to bust my tail at times physically they may never once have to do on the job, and I work hours away from my home for weeks at a time but...
I can walk 20' out my door, and I'm in wilderness in the Rocky Mountains. There are snow-covered mountains in every direction. That's worth a lot IMO.
Actually Champy, I have worked in my life as an apprentice pipe fitter laying gas lines, as a groundskeeper, in commercial flooring, a teacher for mentally ill teenage addicts, and as a currently as a teacher at an inner city type high school, oh yeah I'm also a football and high school wrestling coach...no office job here.
I'm glad you've been living "a real man's" life, working on oil rigs, etc. BTW, I also have a wife so even if those kind of jobs were something I found appealing, going away for weeks or months on end would not suit me, I prefer to come home every night...but glad to know you are also judging people by what they do for a living.:rolleyes:
BTW, a word of advice as you seek to find yourself someone to birth your babies....pardon me while I clean the vomit out of my mouth:eek:...it might be wise not to comment to a woman about her hips...most ladies I have known in my life tend to take offense at such things. Have a nice day!:sun
Gray Blazer
03-07-2008, 09:41
Cheap is cheap but stealing is stealing. Nothing much lower than a thief.
Except for people who leave coolers at trailheads and people who leave sodas in the streams. Jeeeshh. Period.:D
Lone Wolf
03-07-2008, 09:45
Except for people who leave coolers at trailheads and people who leave sodas in the streams. Jeeeshh. Period.:D
correct. littering for sure
Actually Champy, I have worked in my life as an apprentice pipe fitter laying gas lines, as a groundskeeper, in commercial flooring, a teacher for mentally ill teenage addicts, and as a currently as a teacher at an inner city type high school, oh yeah I'm also a football and high school wrestling coach...no office job here.
I'm glad you've been living "a real man's" life, working on oil rigs, etc. BTW, I also have a wife so even if those kind of jobs were something I found appealing, going away for weeks or months on end would not suit me, I prefer to come home every night...but glad to know you are also judging people by what they do for a living.:rolleyes:
BTW, a word of advice as you seek to find yourself someone to birth your babies....pardon me while I clean the vomit out of my mouth:eek:...it might be wise not to comment to a woman about her hips...most ladies I have known in my life tend to take offense at such things. Have a nice day!:sun
Ouc. :D I think that'll prolly leave a briuse... at least. Maybe not. :-?
RITBlake
03-07-2008, 09:55
I'm glad you've been living "a real man's" life, working on oil rigs, etc.
MS is like a 140 pound soaking wet. What could he offer to an oil drilling crew of roughnecks.
Almost There
03-07-2008, 09:58
MS is like a 140 pound soaking wet. What could he offer to an oil drilling crew of roughnecks.
Isn't there an office or control room on the rigs?:D
RITBlake
03-07-2008, 10:00
Isn't there an office or control room on the rigs?:D
Technically that would be an office job?
correct. littering for sure
I have come across littering. There were several 16oz. cans with warnings about hazards to pregnant ladies, looking freshly littered and very cold. Since it was too much to carry fully burdened, we sat and polished off the contents, before packing out the remains. Putting aside the problems of tackling such a problem at 10 am with many miles left in my day, I felt it was necessary to make the trail safer for pregnant women and litter cleansing. Someone had to do it.
MS is like a 140 pound soaking wet. What could he offer to an oil drilling crew of roughnecks.
Really?!! He was carrying half his weight! :-?
Phlashlite
03-07-2008, 10:02
Ron you bent over backwards for my husband and I. We still talk about how kind you were. Promise Keeper and Oorah. Keep up your good work.
Really?!! He was carrying half his weight! :-?
I thought he was 7 feet tall and shot flames outta his azz... :-?
RITBlake
03-07-2008, 10:07
I thought he was 7 feet tall and shot flames outta his azz... :-?
Did you just reply to yourself?
Wallace! Wallace! Wallace! Wallace!
Did you just reply to yourself?
Wallace! Wallace! Wallace! Wallace!
YOU can call me Wally. ;)
Hey... weren't you the guy that wanted to "murder" the trail? :-?
I can hear it now from Baldthing and her hubby....
"Hey honey, Let's go to this place called Rustys...."
Don't get me started!:D:D:D:D
Now that's funny right there! .....Larry the Cable GuyI think these two wierdo's are in for some rude awakings.They will probably be run off many places and my find theirselves eating a knuckle sandwich.
the goat
03-07-2008, 10:31
MS has an office job and lives in his mom's basement???
MS has an office job and lives in his mom's basement???
I've worked in industrial environments. It is still the office. :rolleyes:
I've worked in industrial environments. It is still the office. :rolleyes:
Big Daddy D on his 2005 thru started each day's hike with "in the office at 9am".
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=89044
Almost There
03-07-2008, 11:04
In my house....the office also stands for something else!:eek: I suggest you stay out of the office after I get out of it.:D
Gray Blazer
03-07-2008, 11:27
correct. littering for sure
I was wondering if you caught that one.:D
Dances with Mice
03-07-2008, 11:34
I like my office.
Don't touch my red Swingline stapler.
May I use your red stapler if I provide staples?
The Weasel
03-07-2008, 11:54
I have a wife that loves me and that after almost 9 years I am still crazy about, to me that is worth more than any stupid patch or thru hike, but hey if the thru hike makes you happier then have at it buddy!:eek: But dont' tell those who don't finish or don't attempt that they are somehow less tough.
If you ever wanna challenge me on tough...I'll meet you at the top of Katahdin and throw your butt off of it!:D
Let me know when the challenge is. I'll help you heave. Although I don't think either of us would need help.
TW
Alligator
03-07-2008, 12:12
May I use your red stapler if I provide staples?Not if you don't want him to burn the building down.
Alright then, I'll bring my own stapler, but no one else uses it, understand? I don't want to spend my day looking for it either.
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 12:23
MS is like a 140 pound soaking wet. What could he offer to an oil drilling crew of roughnecks.There was a thru-hiker in 2006 who worked on oil rigs down in the Gulf of Mexico. He was in his late 20s, wasn't real tall but very physically tough and fit, one of the fittest hikers I saw over five months. He said working on an oil rig was really hard work. I remember this because it really impressed on me that it must be VERY hard work, indeed.
Obviously there must be quite a range of work on oil rigs, as far as how physically demanding it is, if both M.S. and this guy could work on one.
RadioFreq
03-07-2008, 12:29
I have come across littering. There were several 16oz. cans with warnings about hazards to pregnant ladies, looking freshly littered and very cold. Since it was too much to carry fully burdened, we sat and polished off the contents, before packing out the remains. Putting aside the problems of tackling such a problem at 10 am with many miles left in my day, I felt it was necessary to make the trail safer for pregnant women and litter cleansing. Someone had to do it.
You, sir, are a man among men and I salute you! :)
max patch
03-07-2008, 13:13
Let me know when the challenge is. I'll help you heave. Although I don't think either of us would need help.
TW
Oh please. Weazie is boasting that he'll throw MS off Katahdin?! At least MS has proven he has what it takes to actually get to K. Unlike some of his attckers on this thread.
Lone Wolf
03-07-2008, 13:14
Oh please. Weazie is boasting that he'll throw MS off Katahdin?! At least MS has proven he has what it takes to actually get to K. Unlike some of his attckers on this thread.
weasy threatening to attack MS. he's a hypocrite
dessertrat
03-07-2008, 13:16
MS might be a lot of things, but he's got grit on the trail. (Or maybe masochism?). You gotta give him that.
max patch
03-07-2008, 13:18
MS might be a lot of things, but he's got grit on the trail. (Or maybe masochism?). You gotta give him that.
He's got grit on the net also. Says what he thinks, even if it goes against the groupthink so prevelent on this site. Don't see any brown stuff on his nose, either.
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 13:19
MS might be a lot of things, but he's got grit on the trail. (Or maybe masochism?). You gotta give him that.I saw all his stuff spread out in that shelter north of Pearisburg. When I stuck my head in, I thought it was a church rummage sale. There are some issues there. Somebody said that year that he was practicing for a hike up across Canada or something, where his food would have to be parachuted in to him.
dessertrat
03-07-2008, 13:25
I saw all his stuff spread out in that shelter north of Pearisburg. When I stuck my head in, I thought it was a church rummage sale. There are some issues there. Somebody said that year that he was practicing for a hike up across Canada or something, where his food would have to be parachuted in to him.
I thought he actually was thinking about doing a Brooks Range traverse. That would certainly qualify for airdrops of food.
I keep wondering why people criticize the load he carried, when the fact remains that he carried it for 2100 miles plus.
Somebody said that year that he was practicing for a hike up across Canada or something, where his food would have to be parachuted in to him.
Does that drop include TP or do you think he carries enough?
The Weasel
03-07-2008, 13:29
You are only a Thru-hiker if you have completed the trail in one hike. Otherwise you are a section hiker.
Wrong.
You're a thru hiker ("I'm hiking thru") when your goal is Katahdin or, if SOBO, Springer. If your goal is something less at a given time, you're a sectioner. The rest of the time, you're just a couch potato.
TW
minnesotasmith
03-07-2008, 13:29
There was a thru-hiker in 2006 who worked on oil rigs down in the Gulf of Mexico. He was in his late 20s, wasn't real tall but very physically tough and fit, one of the fittest hikers I saw over five months. He said working on an oil rig was really hard work. I remember this because it really impressed on me that it must be VERY hard work, indeed.
Obviously there must be quite a range of work on oil rigs, as far as how physically demanding it is, if both M.S. and this guy could work on one.
I'm outside multiple times an hour in all (and I mean all) weather every shift when the rig is drilling. After walking 60-100+ yards (depends on the rig site) I have to climb tall stairs each time and clamber over lots of valves and other equipment. I shovel drill cuttings (ground-up rock) out of the device that collects our samples, like over 30 full-size shovelfuls each time sometimes. My back can ache from my job more than it ever did on the Trail. During rigup and rigdown, which can each take all day, again in all weather, I string cables across the rig, carry two clumsy metal devices (around 60 and 75 pounds apiece) across the rig site and up into semiconfined spaces on the rig. Oh, and if either of them fail, I have to carry replacements out, set them up, and bring the broken one back to the my lab trailer. I may do a fair amount of computer/instrument work, but it's usually with muddy boots and coveralls on (everyone on a rig but the galley crew wears coveralls when on shift), and cold-weather gear in winter. Try fixing something complicated in a hurry (so you don't lose data) well above the ground at 2 A.M. at 5 degrees in 25 mph wind.
Oh, and did I mention the usual 8" sea of mud over the rigsite much of the time in nonwinter weather, and the current snowfall total of over a fathom the rigsite has gotten to date this winter?
The roughnecks have it worse than me, but they can't keep gas chromatographs going, or ascertain from a pinch of sugar-sized rock fragments what formation and lithology we're drilling through, whether the drill bit is getting dull or the lithology is simply hard, what the oil % and general type (light vs. medium vs. heavy) in the rock is just by looking at it, etc. I get asked by the oil company representatives (company men), guys making about 1400.00 a day, to render judgement on situations that determines whether a drillrig costing over 60 grand a day to run will waste days or not on a bad decision. (Not to mention, people do get killed out here, especially if someone makes a bad call on something serious.)
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYTO_0_0ReQ
http://www.roughneckcity.com/Western_Colorado_Blowout.html
So, no, I don't have an office job in the city, moving paper that no one will ever read from one box to the other and back.
Almost There
03-07-2008, 13:37
Oh please. Weazie is boasting that he'll throw MS off Katahdin?! At least MS has proven he has what it takes to actually get to K. Unlike some of his attckers on this thread.
Hey Max! I'll be up on Katahdin on June 10th. We can get a bunch of people together and play King of the Hill if you want. I loved that game when I was a kid!:D
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 13:40
I'm outside multiple times an hour in all (and I mean all) weather every shift when the rig is drilling. After walking 60-100+ yards (depends on the rig site) I have to climb tall stairs each time and clamber over lots of valves and other equipment. I shovel drill cuttings (ground-up rock) out of the device that collects our samples, like over 30 full-size shovelfuls each time sometimes. My back can ache from my job more than it ever did on the Trail. During rigup and rigdown, which can each take all day, again in all weather, I string cables across the rig, carry two clumsy metal devices (around 60 and 75 pounds apiece) across the rig site and up into semiconfined spaces on the rig. Oh, and if either of them fail, I have to carry replacements out, set them up, and bring the broken one back to the my lab trailer. I may do a fair amount of computer/instrument work, but it's usually with muddy boots and coveralls on (everyone on a rig but the galley crew wears coveralls when on shift), and cold-weather gear in winter. Try fixing something complicated in a hurry (so you don't lose data) well above the ground at 2 A.M. at 5 degrees in 25 mph wind.
Oh, and did I mention the usual 8" sea of mud over the rigsite much of the time in nonwinter weather, and the current snowfall total of over a fathom the rigsite has gotten to date this winter?
The roughnecks have it worse than me, but they can't keep gas chromatographs going, or ascertain from a pinch of sugar-sized rock fragments what formation and lithology we're drilling through, whether the drill bit is getting dull or the lithology is simply hard, what the oil % and general type (light vs. medium vs. heavy) in the rock is just by looking at it, etc. I get asked by the oil company representatives (company men), guys making about 1400.00 a day, to render judgement on situations that determines whether a drillrig costing over 60 grand a day to run will waste days or not on a bad decision. (Not to mention, people do get killed out here, especially if someone makes a bad call on something serious.)
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYTO_0_0ReQ
http://www.roughneckcity.com/Western_Colorado_Blowout.html
So, no, I don't have an office job in the city, moving paper that no one will ever read from one box to the other and back.
Dude, you don't have to prove to me what a stud you are, I'm not capable of perpetuating your genes.
minnesotasmith
03-07-2008, 13:41
I thought he actually was thinking about doing a Brooks Range traverse. That would certainly qualify for airdrops of food.
I keep wondering why people criticize the load he carried, when the fact remains that he carried it for 2100 miles plus.
Yes, it's a Brooks Range hike, from the Canadian border to Nome, that I've been looking into doing one day. Yes, I'd have to use some airdrops. I figure it's a 3-man, 2-dog, 3-firearms deal, minimum.
I also like the idea of doing a north-south Alaska hike.
I intend to do at least one more thruhike of a major U.S. trail first. Am leaning towards another AT thruhike in 2009, with the goal of doing it in under 5 months.
==================================================
Re my packweight during my 2006 thruhike...
I did slackpack extensively in Maine, Vermont, Connecticut, and Mass, first trying to beat Oct. 15th in Baxter, then nursing less than happy knees. However, even my slackpacks outweighed ULer packs I've seen by several times. Lastly, I did carry a backpack weighing typically about 64 pounds when leaving resupply over 3/4 of the AT, and hiked all of the AT in one calendar year.
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 13:42
Does that drop include TP or do you think he carries enough?I don't know, I was only in there less than a minute, I was uncomfortable, just wanted to see the shelter.
Accuse? He (WD) openly ADMITS and BRAGS about it! (Unless, of course you do not consider going into a restaraunt and eating off the tables stealing)
Hey buddy, I'm doing my best to rile MS. So please let me do so in peace....:sun
BTW, you're kidding me? He gets on here and says he's a thief? Another question, has those folks already finished their meals?
He's got grit on the net also. Says what he thinks, even if it goes against the groupthink so prevelent on this site. Don't see any brown stuff on his nose, either.What you see is what you get too. You got to like a guy like that, he stands his ground no matter what...................;)
I'm outside multiple times an hour in all (and I mean all) weather every shift when the rig is drilling. yadayadayada.
Take a star out of petty cash and post it next to your 2000-miler patch. :rolleyes:
And thanks for helping to keep the U.S. oil flowing. We need more of that. :)
So, no, I don't have an office job in the city, moving paper that no one will ever read from one box to the other and back.
Wow, won't the office workers be enlightened to find they only push papers and no one reads what they wrote. Hopefully, the ones pushing your paycheck and benefits papers around their desk aren't reading this.
minnesotasmith
03-07-2008, 14:28
"...won't the office workers be enlightened to find they only push papers and no one reads what they wrote. Hopefully, the ones pushing your paycheck and benefits papers around their desk aren't reading this.
I've worked in companies where accounting had metasized to over 20% of the company. Then, there's how there are something like 30 times as many Fedgov employees to "serve" less than 4x as many Americans as there were in 1930.
Bureaucracies; where hundreds are doing the work of dozens.:-?
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 14:30
Yeah, I've always remarked how all the road construction guys and the workers in the subway tunnels are so busy they don't have time to wipe the sweat from their brows.
I've worked in companies where accounting had metasized to over 20% of the company. Then, there's how there are something like 30 times as many Fedgov employees to "serve" less than 4x as many Americans as there were in 1930.
Bureaucracies; where hundreds are doing the work of dozens.:-?
Can't say I have a love for bureaucracies myself, ... <self edited to avoid thread hijack into political forum>. Though, I wonder what the unemployment rate would look like without them. :-?
Yeah, I've always remarked how all the road construction guys and the workers in the subway tunnels are so busy they don't have time to wipe the sweat from their brows.
Sweat!? :eek: Oh dear, these fellas must join a union... so they can get air conditioning down there in the subway... you know, for when they are on break. :rolleyes:
minnesotasmith
03-07-2008, 14:41
Yeah, I've always remarked how all the road construction guys and the workers in the subway tunnels are so busy they don't have time to wipe the sweat from their brows.
I've seen the same thing. At my second grad school, it took two YEARS to widen a 4-mile-long highway from 2-lanes to 4. That's more time than it took to build the Al-Can highway from the lower 48 contiguous states to Alaska early in U.S. involvement in WWII. Likewise, in another city in which I have lived, a local joke was "What's yellow and sleeps two? A City of ********** Highway Dept. truck."
No unions, no tenure, and have gov't run little more than courts, military, and monuments, and you'll see way less of this.
minnesotasmith
03-07-2008, 14:48
Can't say I have a love for bureaucracies myself, ... <self edited to avoid thread hijack into political forum>. Though, I wonder what the unemployment rate would look like without them. :-?
Is to consider them unemployed, on a type of welfare, that is. They certainly as a rule produce little of value in my experience relative to their expense.
Actually, they're worse than unemployed, if you think about it. Bureaucrats beyond those needed in a company cost it more than salaries, equipment, and building space. They slow down needed decision-making, engage in more destructive office politics, open a company up to legal liability (every employee on staff at a company brings a certain risk of getting the company sued, or suing it themselves, often over bogus sex/race harassment charges, say). In gov't, extra ones not only cost everyone else money, they reduce liberty to live one's life and make use of one's property in countless ways.
It's akin to Shakespeare's admonition on first killing all the lawyers. If 90% of them were to drop dead tomorrow, we'd arguably be more prosperous and freeer.
dessertrat
03-07-2008, 14:53
Yeah, I've always remarked how all the road construction guys and the workers in the subway tunnels are so busy they don't have time to wipe the sweat from their brows.
Someone found a way to cut the state's highway budget in half-- he invented a shovel that stands up by itself.
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 14:54
Supposedly 30-something of the the 50-something signers of the U.S. Constitution had legal training. I guess it's a good thing 90% of them didn't drop dead before they had a chance to sign it.
dessertrat
03-07-2008, 14:54
It's akin to Shakespeare's admonition on first killing all the lawyers. If 90% of them were to drop dead tomorrow, we'd arguably be more prosperous and freeer.
Remember that it was not Shakespeare's admonition: it was a line reserved to one of his great villains.
Jason of the Woods
03-07-2008, 14:55
OK so I got to the second page of th journal because I had to give them a chance. I myself am about to embark on the biggest trip that I've been on and we too have overspent on things that we now know were silly, bought two raincoats, etc. Then I got to the part about the pack weight. That's all that I could stand. I have everything that I need for a hike. I've spent the last two months out in the woods proving this and my pack with tent only weighs a bit over 20lbs. How the hell do you have a 70lb pack in this day and age?
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 14:55
Someone found a way to cut the state's highway budget in half-- he invented a shovel that stands up by itself.
Once in the late hours of the night/wee hours of the morning, I saw seven guys re-tiling a column on a station platform in the subway--and only one was doing anything at all besides smoking in a non-smoking area. They couldn't have been on break, either, because I waited 45 friggin' minutes.
I would like to complain. I used the latrine near the Boy Scout shelter in Catawba and it smelled badly. Could someone send the maid by to service it?
Thanks
Alligator
03-07-2008, 14:59
I'd like to complain that all the bidets seem to flow horizontally instead of vertically.
Someone found a way to cut the state's highway budget in half-- he invented a shovel that stands up by itself.
Once in the late hours of the night/wee hours of the morning, I saw seven guys re-tiling a column on a station platform in the subway--and only one was doing anything at all besides smoking in a non-smoking area. They couldn't have been on break, either, because I waited 45 friggin' minutes.
Aha .. and both of you spend an inordinate amount of time here posting. :p
whitefoot_hp
03-07-2008, 15:05
I section and weekend a lot but,it's not the same.
i understand completely.
minnesotasmith
03-07-2008, 15:06
Supposedly 30-something of the the 50-something signers of the U.S. Constitution had legal training. I guess it's a good thing 90% of them didn't drop dead before they had a chance to sign it.
Were William Blackstone lawyers, not the Jeremy Bentham ones we are cursed with by the million now.
whitefoot_hp
03-07-2008, 15:14
so, what does everyone feel about the two pages of personal attacks on TJ against these hikers which are three times as negative as the mere whiny complaint the hikers left against Ron? I am not saying that they are right to complain about ron, it sounds like he was more than fair to them, nor am i saying that reading their TJ is not hilarious because they are so green to hiking, i just can't get over the self-righteousness of many of the attacks against them, and how so many so-called experienced hikers would direct such ill will against a few hikers over a simple ignorant complaint. Sometimes i wonder about the hiking community...
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 15:15
Aha .. and both of you spend an inordinate amount of time here posting. :pI have never posted here when I was being paid to be somewhere working.
Sometimes i wonder about the hiking community...
No need to wonder about the hiking community, only hiking forums. Big difference.
I have never posted here when I was being paid to be somewhere working.
My apologies.
RITBlake
03-07-2008, 15:20
I've seen the same thing. At my second grad school, it took two YEARS to widen a 4-mile-long highway from 2-lanes to 4. That's more time than it took to build the Al-Can highway from the lower 48 contiguous states to Alaska early in U.S. involvement in WWII. Likewise, in another city in which I have lived, a local joke was "What's yellow and sleeps two? A City of ********** Highway Dept. truck."
No unions, no tenure, and have gov't run little more than courts, military, and monuments, and you'll see way less of this.
Another thread successfully hijacked my M.S.
Absolute zero correlation between this and the original thread.
whitefoot_hp
03-07-2008, 15:21
No need to wonder about the hiking community, only hiking forums. Big difference.
excellent point. it is tempting to confuse the two, but they are definately two different animals.
Well, MS as someone about to become one of the 90% you think the world could do without, I say na-na-na-na-na. If you knew anything about the regulation of lawyers would you know no large number of attorneys could possibly be unethical. It's a friggin' honor code out a cheesy military school movie. But it is an code, and we do expect all lawyers to abide by that code or they are subject to discipline. If you are interested they are the Model Code of Professional Responsibility. Lawyers play by the laws set by the legislature, who are democratically elected by the people. You don't like it? Vote or go to law school.
Shakespeare's admonition was simply this. One crook to another. How are we gonna get away with it? Reply: First thing we do is kill all the lawyers. That is the gist of it. If you want to get away with something, don't involve a lawyer.
If you want to rip on a profession, try journalism. There is another self-regulating profession. However, journalists don't regulate themselves anywhere near the degree that lawyers do. That is, if they regulate themselves at all.
dessertrat
03-07-2008, 15:29
I have never posted here when I was being paid to be somewhere working.
Neither have I. Professionals don't have people walking a catwalk over their heads with a whip.
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 15:42
My apologies.No problem, hope that didn't seem snippy.
I have seen a lot of people who work in offices spend much of their time on the internet, with their personal e-mail, recipe-gathering, shopping, game-playing, etc. When I am in offices, I am always shocked at some of the things I find in the printer. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. I even saw a temp clerical worker fired for looking at ads for sex on Craig's List!
minnesotasmith
03-07-2008, 15:42
Well, MS as someone about to become one of the 90% you think the world could do without, I say na-na-na-na-na. If you knew anything about the regulation of lawyers would you know no large number of attorneys could possibly be unethical.
You are obviously grossly unfamiliar with Family Law Courts, Tax Courts, and environmental law, among others.
================================================== ======
Re the original topic:
Yes, the couple overreacted to their disappointment that Ron Haven took a flexible view of what time he agreed to pick them up. Likewise, they should have taken into account his refunding money to them. That said, perhaps they feel the time and miles hanging over them like Damocle's Sword, ceaselessly eating away at their peace of mind til they see they are making decent progress northward. Don't get me wrong, I think their chosen hairstyles are repulsive and possibly indicative of major issues, to say nothing of them tenting in a shared shelter. The latter may just be ignorance of trail ettiquette, to be fair.
Let's see how they handle the Smokies before we pass final judgement on them, barring them REALLY pulling something.
whitefoot_hp
03-07-2008, 15:43
tater, like when i catch my boss who makes more money than me playing solitaire while i am upstairs cooking for 100+, which he is better at than me??
whitefoot_hp
03-07-2008, 15:44
You are obviously grossly unfamiliar with Family Law Courts, Tax Courts, and environmental law, among others.
================================================== ======
Re the original topic:
Yes, the couple overreacted to their disappointment that Ron Haven took a flexible view of what time he agreed to pick them up. Likewise, they should have taken into account his refunding money to them. That said, perhaps they feel the time and miles hanging over them like Damocle's Sword, ceaselessly eating away at their peace of mind til they see they are making decent progress northward. Don't get me wrong, I think their chosen hairstyles are repulsive and possibly indicative of major issues, to say nothing of them tenting in a shared shelter. The latter may just be ignorance of trail ettiquette, to be fair.
Let's see how they handle the Smokies before we pass final judgement on them, barring them REALLY pulling something.
wow, that makes two reasonable people.
You are obviously grossly unfamiliar with Family Law Courts, Tax Courts, and environmental law, among others.
================================================== ======
Re the original topic:
Yes, the couple overreacted to their disappointment that Ron Haven took a flexible view of what time he agreed to pick them up. Likewise, they should have taken into account his refunding money to them. That said, perhaps they feel the time and miles hanging over them like Damocle's Sword, ceaselessly eating away at their peace of mind til they see they are making decent progress northward. Don't get me wrong, I think their chosen hairstyles are repulsive and possibly indicative of major issues, to say nothing of them tenting in a shared shelter. The latter may just be ignorance of trail ettiquette, to be fair.
Let's see how they handle the Smokies before we pass final judgement on them, barring them REALLY pulling something.What's wrong with their hairstyles? Look like buzzcuts to me. I usually buzz mine before long hikes, it's convenient.
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 15:48
tater, like when i catch my boss who makes more money than me playing solitaire while i am upstairs cooking for 100+, which he is better at than me??No, he's the boss, you're much better off if he sticks to playing solitaire and keeps out of your hair. Sounds like a winner to me! Do you really want him to come upstairs? I bet you guys even have some sort of code word to alert each other when he does.
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 15:50
What's wrong with their hairstyles? Look like buzzcuts to me. I usually buzz mine before long hikes, it's convenient.I watched "Song of the South" last night, hadn't seen it in over thirty years. Remember when Bre'r Fox put hair on the Tar Baby by sticking it on Bre'r Bear's head and pulling a patch of hair out of the top? That guys hair looks exactly like the opposite, like someone was mowing the lawn and stopped to eat lunch before they finished. Like one of those novelty condoms in gas station bathrooms you bought when you were ten, a "French tickler".
Okay, it is a little dorky looking, but not "repulsive and possibly indicative of major issues". If there's a buzz cut and a swastika tatoo, that'd be different.
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 16:05
Okay, it is a little dorky looking, but not "repulsive and possibly indicative of major issues". If there's a buzz cut and a swastika tatoo, that'd be different.No, it's really dorky looking. I don't mean to be ugly and never would have brought it up first, but I am certainly qualified to say what is dorky. That hair is. Dorky.
We are talking about the same hair? http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=560778&postcount=248
[quote=minnesotasmith;561408]You are obviously grossly unfamiliar with Family Law Courts, Tax Courts, and environmental law, among others.
================================================== ======
No, you are confusing justice with the administration of justice. Lawyers in family law courts, tax courts, and environmental lawyers are no less ethical than any other lawyer. We all play by the same rules. Sounds to me you don't like court decisions or counseled agreements. There again, I refer you to the state legislature to make your complaints. By and large, lawyers and judges simply advocate or rule based on the laws made by legislatures. Sure, there a few activist judges and a few stone-age judges, but they are in the distinct minority.
Your logic is poor. I take it back, don't go to law school.
And my brother is an attorney who deals mainly in family law. So I am not unfamiliar with its practices nor the quality of character of at least one attorney who practices in that area. Your opinion is uninformed and knee-jerk. Unless, of course, you would like to provide examples of attorney behavior in those areas of law that were unethical. If you do that, I will provide you will the relevant rule governing the actions of lawyers. Once informed, you will find that the lawyers actions were not unethical, and were in fact, DEMANDED as part of his duty of care to his client. You confuse positions and outcomes with ethics.
Until then, give attorneys a rest. That is so 1980's.
Lotsa people take advantage of the oppurtunity of a buzzcut and a long hike to get a mohawk. Mohawks are trail-days chic. I'm no phrenologist, but maybe the haircut would look a little better on a different head....
The Weasel
03-07-2008, 16:41
No boast. No threat. Just an offer to a friend. Sorry to disrupt your creative writing.
TW
The Weasel
03-07-2008, 16:51
Well, MS as someone about to become one of the 90% you think the world could do without, I say na-na-na-na-na.
Yahtzee, welcome to the club (of those who have to deal with people who hate lawyers until they need one) and the profession (which is the one of the two which principally created, saved and still defends this nation). Whatever state you are, or will be, in, I'm glad to see you share both the courage and the honor that is emblematic of our profession, regardless of the cheap attacks of others.
TW
Thanks Weasel. In NY. Taking the MPRE tomorrow morning. Cracking the books at the moment (cough cough).
The Weasel
03-07-2008, 18:15
Thanks Weasel. In NY. Taking the MPRE tomorrow morning. Cracking the books at the moment (cough cough).
For those who don't know, "the MPRE" is the Multi-State Professional Responsibility Examination." It's required by many, if not most, states, as a requirement to be admitted to be an attorney. (Other states have other means of testing this.) It's an exhaustive examination over hundreds of rules about ethical requirements that apply to how one works with clients, opponents, courts and the public.
Most other licensed professions and occupations have nothing like it.
Good luck, Y. I didn't have to take it back in the 70s in Michigan, but I did in CA in '90. You'll do fine.
TW
excellent point. it is tempting to confuse the two, but they are definately two different animals.
But are they? Can we not deduce that the hiking forums constitute a subset of the the hiking community and represent many of the same thoughts that are not expressed in public?
Neither have I. Professionals don't have people walking a catwalk over their heads with a whip.
Actually, I could tell you some stories about a manager who people called, "the attendance taker".
Thanks Weasel, I just hit this little gem
"Lawyers have an ethical obligation to help make legal service available to all who need it. A lawyer can fulfill this obligation by accepting a fair share of unpopular matters or indigent or unpopular clients." Comment 1 to Rule 6.2
And along with this obligation comes the wrath of the self-righteous.
Back to the books.
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 18:24
Most other licensed professions and occupations have nothing like it. None, that I've heard of. Why are lawyers so in need of a special test just for ethics? Most professions incorporate it into the general exam as an integral part of knowledge and practice. Hmmmm. :eek:
For those who don't know, "the MPRE" is the Multi-State Professional Responsibility Examination." It's required by many, if not most, states, as a requirement to be admitted to be an attorney. (Other states have other means of testing this.) It's an exhaustive examination over hundreds of rules about ethical requirements that apply to how one works with clients, opponents, courts and the public.
Most other licensed professions and occupations have nothing like it.
Most other professions and occupations don't NEED it! :p
The Weasel
03-07-2008, 18:34
None, that I've heard of. Why are lawyers so in need of a special test just for ethics? Most professions incorporate it into the general exam as an integral part of knowledge and practice. Hmmmm. :eek:
Tater, that's a really, really, really good question: "Why are lawyers so in need of a special test just for ethics."
The answer is - and it really is - because lawyers realize, far more than most professions or occupations do, the importance of ethics: Not just doing what is popular, or easy, or safe. But unlike most other professions - excepting most clearly the military, which also realizes the overwhelming importance of honor when the choices are hard - lawyers know that they will be asked to do things for people who are viewed with hostillity and even hatred and, on some occasions, will find they are ostracised for that themselves. So every course in law school emphasizes ethics. We're tested on it on graduation. We're expected to serve on ethics boards.
We take this seriously because it matters.
Did I get the right answer, Y?
TW
The Weasel
03-07-2008, 18:36
Most other professions and occupations don't NEED it! :p
That's funny, Sly. Wish it were true.
TW
Being an engineer (of sorts) I know that engineers sometimes get into trouble over ethics. The professional societies in Canada at least do test on ethics as well.
I think the difference for lawyers is that they are tempted more than many. They often serve as trustees and are exposed to temptations for pecuniary emoluments they are not properly entitled to, if I may say it thus.
I owe my early life support to the law, as my father was a solicitor of Montreal.
You got it right, Weasel. I can't wait to be called an attorney. Knowing about how our profession handles its business, I might even take on a perverse pleasure from attorney's jokes. The old maxim still seems hold true for some folks: Attorneys suck until you need one.
As to temptations, that might be the case, but I assure you, each and every bit of a client's money that is handled must be placed into a specified account, depending on its worth. For sums that won't net $50 interest, the money goes into a pooled account where the interest gained is usually deposited into a state account designated to serve poor and indigent clients. If $50 interest will be gained, that money has to go into a separate account and any interest goes back to the client. All this info must be presented to the client. Any shenanigans on the part of an attorney where money is concerned can be found out eventually.
OK so I got to the second page of th journal because I had to give them a chance. I myself am about to embark on the biggest trip that I've been on and we too have overspent on things that we now know were silly, bought two raincoats, etc. Then I got to the part about the pack weight. That's all that I could stand. I have everything that I need for a hike. I've spent the last two months out in the woods proving this and my pack with tent only weighs a bit over 20lbs. How the hell do you have a 70lb pack in this day and age?
Happens everyday on the trail........
Were William Blackstone lawyers, not the Jeremy Bentham ones we are cursed with by the million now.
Hey MS, what do you think about the "Baldthings?"
Skidsteer
03-07-2008, 19:35
Hey MS, what do you think about the "Baldthings?"
Re the original topic:
Yes, the couple overreacted to their disappointment that Ron Haven took a flexible view of what time he agreed to pick them up. Likewise, they should have taken into account his refunding money to them. That said, perhaps they feel the time and miles hanging over them like Damocle's Sword, ceaselessly eating away at their peace of mind til they see they are making decent progress northward. Don't get me wrong, I think their chosen hairstyles are repulsive and possibly indicative of major issues, to say nothing of them tenting in a shared shelter. The latter may just be ignorance of trail ettiquette, to be fair.
Let's see how they handle the Smokies before we pass final judgement on them, barring them REALLY pulling something.
. . . . .
. . . . .
thanx skids, didn't see that...........
the goat
03-07-2008, 19:54
Most other professions and occupations don't NEED it! :p
............:D
so, what does everyone feel about the two pages of personal attacks on TJ against these hikers which are three times as negative as the mere whiny complaint the hikers left against Ron? I am not saying that they are right to complain about ron, it sounds like he was more than fair to them, nor am i saying that reading their TJ is not hilarious because they are so green to hiking, i just can't get over the self-righteousness of many of the attacks against them, and how so many so-called experienced hikers would direct such ill will against a few hikers over a simple ignorant complaint. Sometimes i wonder about the hiking community...I feel...indifferent. Anyone who decides to post a public journal on a site as prolific as Trailjournals must understand the audience and how they may react. Maybe they miscalculated the journal portion of their hike. Personally, I would NEVER attempt a thru hike with an online journal. Thats just my style. Can't take the heat...ect. I bet they don't care what anyone thinks. More power to them. Ron's reputation was NEVER in doubt so I guess it's a wash, except he refunded their money and they used his computer to bitch about him.(maybe) Bad form.
God, I don't get how people can be so relaxed and laid back in the first 100 miles of a thru-hike. I felt like a horse coming out of the starting gates. Where's the drive? I mean, I feel like the idea of walking 2,200 miles at the end of a 5 mile day would seem completely impossible.
_terrapin_
03-07-2008, 21:06
God, I don't get how people can be so relaxed and laid back in the first 100 miles of a thru-hike. I felt like a horse coming out of the starting gates. Where's the drive? I mean, I feel like the idea of walking 2,200 miles at the end of a 5 mile day would seem completely impossible.
I'm having a similar reaction, somewhat. But you know, to each his own... I was ahead of the pack for the first few weeks -- and then watched the pack pass me. Kinda depressing. Later (much later...) I learned to ignore and avoid the pack, and started having fun again.
_terrapin_
03-07-2008, 21:18
Lastly, I did carry a backpack weighing typically about 64 pounds when leaving resupply over 3/4 of the AT, and hiked all of the AT in one calendar year.
That says something about determination and "grit," I guess. Says even more about brains, or rather, lack thereof.
Ron Haven
03-07-2008, 21:27
Some of us still are. Ron, did you fix them up with some ramps?:DMaybe some ramps and a little snort of my uncles shine would have made them both feel just fine :banana
Ron Haven
03-07-2008, 21:58
Well, i couldn't read through this whole thread, but it does remind me of something that happened to me in '95 (i think that was the year?)
I hiked into Rainbow Springs and said hello to 4 hikers on the porch and then went inside and bought a microwave cheeseburger and got the lowdown on the bunkhouse, laundry, lack of beer, etc that was available.
Went back out on the porch and got to talking with these guys who said they were waiting for a taxi they had called to come and take them to Franklin where there were: AYCE restaurants, beer, cheap hotels, PO, Supermarkets, etc. ALL for the same price as staying at RS.
It was pretty much a no-brainer as i was thirsty for one thing. We went in town and spent the night, had a great time and came back and hiked out.
found out for the next few weeks that the word had spread up and down the trail that we were being badmouthed FIERCELY for what we did. Seems Buddy and Ginsene didn't approve of that at all. It's all they talked about for weeks we heard. People looked at us with hate and bad vibes.
I'm not defending the folks here that are getting badmouthed but you haven't been in their shoes. Whining is being done on both sides and whining sucks! ***** happens. Get over it. Many of you have been judge, jury and hangman in a situation that you weren't even there to see or hear the other side of the story.
Anyway, that's my take on the story.
By the way, one of the guys i met on the porch that day in '95 is my best friend to this day! We've hiked, and travelled worldwide many many times since then. He's taught me tons about desert hiking and most importantly, to keep an open mind!Fiddlehead was it me driving the taxi?I owned City Taxi for several years.Yellow cars with black writing.I think I talked to you at Trail Days a few years ago when you was peddling vidios you made.When I owned the cab business I hauled lots of hikers in and out of Franklin.
Almost There
03-07-2008, 22:10
Actually, I could tell you some stories about a manager who people called, "the attendance taker".
Feeding off of that, my department head today had his panties in a bunch because I turned in a survey late, just a simple mistake, this is the time where my school district surveys us to death. Anyways, he decides to come looking for me with 10 minutes left in the day. I left the survey on his desk. He's pissed, easy to anger, and I had just walked out of my classroom to head down to the coaches lockerroom in the football fieldhouse. I leave when I'm allowed to leave still not knowing he's looking for me, and I get an email from him about the survey, being responsible, blah, blah, blah, but and to quote him, "the most important issue is where was I from 3:15 to 3:25." :rolleyes: I told him I was in the fieldhouse getting something I needed, if he starts with me on Monday, I'm just gonna tell him the truth...I was taking a krap in the coaches bathroom because it's cleaner.:eek:
I'm a friggin' licensed professional, and I have to give an accounting of the last ten minutes of the day, because I might have left ten minutes early??? Georgia sucks, non union states suck!!!!:mad:
Yes, it's a Brooks Range hike, from the Canadian border to Nome, that I've been looking into doing one day. Yes, I'd have to use some airdrops. I figure it's a 3-man, 2-dog, 3-firearms deal, minimum.
I also like the idea of doing a north-south Alaska hike.
I intend to do at least one more thruhike of a major U.S. trail first. Am leaning towards another AT thruhike in 2009, with the goal of doing it in under 5 months.
==================================================
Re my packweight during my 2006 thruhike...
I did slackpack extensively in Maine, Vermont, Connecticut, and Mass, first trying to beat Oct. 15th in Baxter, then nursing less than happy knees. However, even my slackpacks outweighed ULer packs I've seen by several times. Lastly, I did carry a backpack weighing typically about 64 pounds when leaving resupply over 3/4 of the AT, and hiked all of the AT in one calendar year.
Why not just hike all of Lake Clark?:)
. However, even my slackpacks outweighed ULer packs I've seen by several times. Lastly, I did carry a backpack weighing typically about 64 pounds when leaving resupply over 3/4 of the AT, and hiked all of the AT in one calendar year.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah... who gives a ****, especially about the weight of your pack!
Bulldawg
03-07-2008, 22:50
I have loved reading this entire post start to finish over the last hour. I just had to add that. Ron, I have never partaken of any of your businesses, but you seem like a stand up guy. Where in the world are these skin heads from anyway??
Neither have I. Professionals don't have people walking a catwalk over their heads with a whip.
Do you have a gearlist for the 2100 walk?He does bottom line.
there's how there are something like 30 times as many Fedgov employees to "serve" less than 4x as many Americans as there were in 1930.Not true.
...
Ron Haven
03-07-2008, 23:07
I have loved reading this entire post start to finish over the last hour. I just had to add that. Ron, I have never partaken of any of your businesses, but you seem like a stand up guy. Where in the world are these skin heads from anyway??Come by and see us some day :) I'm not sure where the woman was from,I couldn't understand her to well.Maybe Poland or Russia.He said he was from Alvin,Texas
What is sad for them.They got a chip on their shoulder and that seems to cause everything to go bad.Maybe things will get better for them.
fiddlehead
03-07-2008, 23:19
Fiddlehead was it me driving the taxi?I owned City Taxi for several years.Yellow cars with black writing.I think I talked to you at Trail Days a few years ago when you was peddling vidios you made.When I owned the cab business I hauled lots of hikers in and out of Franklin.
Now Ron, my memory isn't THAT good! Could be, not sure.
Word has it you're a real plus to the AT community.
I haven't been to trail daze since around 2003 I guess now. (i do try to make the gatherings as i'm usually back in PA in Oct, perhaps you saw me there?) (I think i've missed 3 since 1989.) But i was selling the vids there .
Last thru I did was a SOBO with support so we didn't make it into Franklin.
But, yes, that day at Rainbow Springs and getting a taxi into Franklin changed my life as i met my best friend that way.
Ron Haven
03-07-2008, 23:31
Now Ron, my memory isn't THAT good! Could be, not sure.
Word has it you're a real plus to the AT community.
I haven't been to trail daze since around 2003 I guess now. (i do try to make the gatherings as i'm usually back in PA in Oct, perhaps you saw me there?) (I think i've missed 3 since 1989.) But i was selling the vids there .
Last thru I did was a SOBO with support so we didn't make it into Franklin.
But, yes, that day at Rainbow Springs and getting a taxi into Franklin changed my life as i met my best friend that way.It was probably 02 or 03,I remember you told me you had been to Franklin and I remember you were at a stand with the vidio's.It is sometimes funny or odd how you came by meeting a friend.Finding one is super though.
Re my packweight during my 2006 thruhike...
I did slackpack extensively in Maine, Vermont, Connecticut, and Mass, first trying to beat Oct. 15th in Baxter, then nursing less than happy knees. However, even my slackpacks outweighed ULer packs I've seen by several times. Lastly, I did carry a backpack weighing typically about 64 pounds when leaving resupply over 3/4 of the AT, and hiked all of the AT in one calendar year.The weights and measures combined with the timetable and completion are something to be proud of MS. Beyond the 2000 mile mark, what did you come away with?
minnesotasmith
03-08-2008, 00:24
The weights and measures combined with the timetable and completion are something to be proud of MS. Beyond the 2000 mile mark, what did you come away with?
I would boil it down to having learned a great deal through practice how to prepare mind, body, and gear for a wide variety of hiking trips, with varying terrain, weather, and duration. Gear carried should vary no small amount as the last 3 do.
I would boil it down to having learned a great deal through practice how to prepare mind, body, and gear for a wide variety of hiking trips, with varying terrain, weather, and duration. Gear carried should vary no small amount as the last 3 do.Thanks for the reply. And good job. If I may say so, that is far more important IRT the pursuit of backpacking than the difference between 8/10ths and 10/10ths of ANY journey.:sun
Almost There
03-08-2008, 02:16
Tools of the Hiking World Unite!:jump
The weights and measures combined with the timetable and completion are something to be proud of MS. Beyond the 2000 mile mark, what did you come away with?
I'll buy the completion part, but there's absolutely no need to carry 64 lbs on the AT. If he reduced his pack weight by 30 lbs, which is easy this day and age, he probably could have hiked straight through. Of course, that would have meant less time on the trail, which is a negative.
oldfivetango
03-08-2008, 09:15
you wouldn't believe it but I remember one sniveler I had in here last year when i cooked for about four hikers. i had asked everyone of them if pork chops, taters, gravy, green beans, biscuits, and ice cream would satisfy their hunger? everyone of them said "yes!" i do recall the lass sayin' that she was mostly a vegan but she could splurge on some meat this one time.
well by golly after i get the whole thing finished she decided that she was going to be a vegan again and said that she could not eat the meat. so i says "eat the taters, green beans, and biscuits then."
she says "i would like a meat subsitute, fix me some eggs!" she said this with much emotion in her voice like she expected me to jump to it.
i informed her, "young lady you may either eat what i laid down in front of you or you may leave. i asked all of you point blank if pork chops were okay? you're the one who decided after the meal was prepared that it was not and the rest of your clan here doesn't seem to be having a problem with the meal. so i am not fixing anything else and besides it is i who invited you to eat so don't demand anything of me!" i was hot i tell ya! i never said hey can you guys give me some money if i fix you a meal, i cook for thru hikers sometimes because thru food good conversations come about and i love to hear of others adventures......
she left but i heard about it the next day when one of her friends showed up to use the phone and thought i owed her an apology. the friend left in a hurry too..........
there's always going to be snivelers no matter if they are recieving a gift, but i can honestly say she was the only one out of how many hundred that i got to enjoy their company?
i'm afreashed and ready for another one this year. maybe i will fix those eggs this time............
You have to understand that young people today have "entitlement
issues".In other words they are spoiled and think the world owes them
something for nothing.
The young lady in question probably came from one of those families
where Mommy fixed everyone a different dish at mealtime(giving Mommy
a "fix" for her own little martyr complex) so she has come to expect
elders to "snap to it" when she barks an order.
It's a far cry from Tango's childhood where the rule was"if you don't
eat it at lunch it will be warmed up for supper".That was Mom's way
of indulging us kids.Dad's rule was "the timer will go off in in 5 minutes,
if that food ain't gone then we are going to the woodshed."
For some reason I learned to never complain about the food and my
wife loves me for it!:D
Oldfivetango
minnesotasmith
03-08-2008, 09:44
I'll buy the completion part, but there's absolutely no need to carry 64 lbs on the AT. If he reduced his pack weight by 30 lbs, which is easy this day and age, he probably could have hiked straight through. Of course, that would have meant less time on the trail, which is a negative.
I was in part testing systems for Alaska hiking, yes. There's NWIH for me to walk a couple hundred miles between resupply points there with a 30-pound pack.
I also didn't want my hike to be overly easy. I knew I would always wonder later what a more "Alpine" hike would have been like. Instead, I found what my limits were in terms of what kind of terrain my will can carry me through with a heavy pack (and, there are terrains I can't manage with one).
For example, I hiked at generally 7-mile a day pace from Hiawassee to the NOC without resupply. I know I could do it again. If I can do it, surely the faster young kids can, too.
_terrapin_
03-08-2008, 10:15
For example, I hiked at generally 7-mile a day pace from Hiawassee to the NOC without resupply. I know I could do it again. If I can do it, surely the faster young kids can, too.
Hiawasee to NOC is 67.3 miles. At 7 miles/day, that's just under 10 days. A typical thru doing 15 miles/day would do it in five days. What's the point? You were carrying 10 lbs of food that a faster hiker could have skipped.
HYOH and all that, but a 66-pound pack just makes no sense on the AT, unless you're into self-abuse.
the goat
03-08-2008, 10:24
May not care for what I said, but my point still stands unrefuted. Non LD-hikers WILL in my experience commonly ask very early on in a conversation about a thruhike attempt if you finished, and will conclude in most cases you didn't get everything out of it that you could have if you didn't finish.
most non LD-hikers WILL in my experience commonly ask early on in a conversation about a thruhike attempt where you finished, and will conclude in most cases you didn't get everything out of it that you could have, if you didn't finish on katahdin or springer.:rolleyes:
you finished in kent; did you get everything out of it you could have?
moral of the story: who gives a rat's as$ what someone else thinks?
The young lady in question probably came from one of those families
where ........
I think she's from Sweden. There's mention of it on her journal and Ron said he had trouble understanding her. She writes well in English.
max patch
03-08-2008, 12:13
Originally Posted by minnesotasmith:
May not care for what I said, but my point still stands unrefuted. Non LD-hikers WILL in my experience commonly ask very early on in a conversation about a thruhike attempt if you finished, and will conclude in most cases you didn't get everything out of it that you could have if you didn't finish.
Well, I didn't. A week befor my thru I did a hike from Woody to Neels and spent the night in the Blood Mtn Shelter. A guy was there who had thru'd a couple years earlier. I did'nt ask him about his hike. Also didn't ask the guy who picked me up when I hitched into Erwin about his hike. Don't know the significance of all this except to say one shouldn't make sweeping generalizations.
The thing I find odd is EVERY year I run across ex thru hikers "holding court" at Blood Mountain making sure they introduce themselves to every potential thru who passes by as an ex thru hiker. Appears to be an ego thing near as I can tell.
I'll cop to doing a purist hike because I didn't feel like getting **** from outside commentators. But that's me, it's fairly easy to get my goat, as it were.
I'll also cop to hanging out around the trail during hiking season and introducing myself to thrus as they pass by. Don't think it's a "ego thing". I just like seeing thru-hikers and sharing the experience. Takes me back.
I think she's from Sweden. There's mention of it on her journal and Ron said he had trouble understanding her. She writes well in English.
Different young lady, I think?
Different young lady, I think?
Why is that? If you read the journal it appears she may be Swedish.
What I get from all this is that MS has a very different attitude toward long distance hiking than most on this list. It seems that he has an analytic interest in certain aspects of equipping, plus a personal challenge ethic related to his view of his possible future exploits. It is an attitude I am familiar with among the geekier engineering fraternity.
I am also aware of how misguided much of the speculative base of this might be. Both in terms of what MS is likely to accomplish in future challenges, and in his misapprehension of what those challenges actually entail. When woolgathering, it is easy to overstep the bounds of ones own experience and competence. When one is an engineer by vocation, this is when the designer steps in and begins to put up all the possible difficulties, and solve them one by one.
Trouble is, this is not how long distance hiking is done. The idea is not to cover all bases, but to go for the most likely, best chance, and cover off the less likely and more pessimistic occurrences by a combination of skill, serendipity and ingenuity with minimal tools. Devising the minimal tool kit occupies a fair bit of the discussion on WB. Why else discuss lightweight stoves, maps or no maps, ounce shaving and the like?
I bet MS carried whatever he considered to be a bomb-proof version of any particular piece of equipment, and he probably carried a lot of stuff he almost never used, but figured he would have needed badly if he ever did need it.
I wish MS every good thing in his future expeditions, but I would rather choose as a companion someone who had spent a good deal of his time going it alone in the deep bush, who knew how to get by with less rather than more.
Hi i star my hike on april 5 2008 and i can tell you one thing after being out on the trail for a while. a meal of pork chops, taters,green beans,biscuits,and ice cream sound like a meal fit for a king to me man get hungy just thinking about it.
I wish MS every good thing in his future expeditions, but I would rather choose as a companion someone who had spent a good deal of his time going it alone in the deep bush, who knew how to get by with less rather than more.
I agree it's not likely an AT thru-hike is going to prepare you for a cross country trip Alaska in the future.
Coulter is a member here and has a website on his trip across Alaska.
http://www.bucktrack.com/Alaska_Brooks_Range_Traverse.html
_terrapin_
03-08-2008, 13:51
Hi i star my hike on april 5 2008 and i can tell you one thing after being out on the trail for a while. a meal of pork chops, taters,green beans,biscuits,and ice cream sound like a meal fit for a king to me man get hungy just thinking about it.
the kid hasn't started hiking yet and he's already hungry... ;)
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=218334
BaldThing is making accusations that Ron is behind all the bashing entries in their guest book. lol
Survivor Dave
03-09-2008, 18:19
Are you kidding me?
I'm hiking to get away from these types. Yes, I'm predjudiced against insensitive, self absorbed, selfish,uppity, Primadonna, whining jerks.
Their comments are borderline slanderous against Ron.
A quote from their last journal entry.......
We are enjoying our double-zero day. We moved to new lodging in a bunkhouse because a couple of big groups are expected in today. It had been a cold night; puddles were frozen. I'm updating my online journal and found a bunch of entertaining guest book entries posted anonymously, presumably by the motel owner back in Franklin. So, after he himself suggested refunding part of our room charge for the morning when there was no hot water and he twice changed the shuttle time on us, he now wants to spend his time sending me emotional messages! There is obviously a good reason North Carolina AT shelters do not include his place in their motel listing. If establishments further up the trail are not available to us because they operate on the same principles, we are grateful for the grief it will save us. For those of you wanting to use my guest book, please make sure you enter a valid e-mail address. I will delete anonymous entries. I do not say anything behind someone's back I do not say to their face and I expect the same behavior from others. Willie, Jake, and the two section hikers headed out today. Launchpad is still around, visiting with his friend who works at the NOC ropes course. Breakfast: French toast at NOC River's End restaurant Lunch: Black bean chili at NOC River's End restaurant - yummy and very filling Dinner: Sherpa and salad takeout from NOC River's End restaurant
__________________
born_to_hike
03-09-2008, 18:54
Internet Posse!
400+ posts and it only took these two words to get to the crux of the issue.
Ron, I hope you are happy now that the posse is riding out of town.
BTW, you don't remember changing shuttle times?
:mad:
Almost There
03-09-2008, 19:03
At this point...leave'em alone. I just read their guestbook and some of us are giving "us" a bad name. They had every right to feel the way they feel. Their mistake is that they posted it on a public forum...a journal is for you, but when it is public you should be prepared to leave certain things out...or take the heat. She should have told the whole story, but that being said, she didn't, so we make ourselves look bad, and we make Ron look bad by not letting it go.
Many of us love Ron to death and would go out of our way to help him if needed. That shows the character of the man. Bashing someone who did a stupid thing, who is hiking their own way, paying for what they buy, and seeming to get along with other hikers around them, makes us look petty and small, it negates the big hearts and open arms that I am used to seeing from the hiking community.
You are bigger than this people, show it, by leaving them alone, just because I don't like someone doesn't mean I have to beat them to a bloody pulp.
And...anyone who actually knows me, knows that I defend my friends, when necessary, and Ron knows that I've got his back...but Ron is a big boy and can take care of himself where these two asshats are concerned he doesn't need my protection or yours, the word has already moved ahead of them via WB, the job is done.
Survivor Dave
03-09-2008, 19:16
Most hikers get bad reputations by the actions of the "bad apples". I would not post in their journal because it isn't worth the trouble.
However, if I have to defend myself as part of the hiking community, and as a member of this website, I will.
It is hard enough to build(rebuild) the reputation of long distance hikers for the actions in the past. We, at times, are looked to as "less than" even though most folks are decent, and considerate.
I agree with you as far as the folks posting in the guest book. As a matter of fact in a previous post, I cautioned folks against it because the "Asshats" can find out through TJ where the messages came from.
I'd hate to be a new hostel/hotel owner after these folks blew into town. They would probably reconsider their decision.
SD
At this point...leave'em alone. I just read their guestbook and some of us are giving "us" a bad name. They had every right to feel the way they feel. Their mistake is that they posted it on a public forum...a journal is for you, but when it is public you should be prepared to leave certain things out...or take the heat. She should have told the whole story, but that being said, she didn't, so we make ourselves look bad, and we make Ron look bad by not letting it go.
Many of us love Ron to death and would go out of our way to help him if needed. That shows the character of the man. Bashing someone who did a stupid thing, who is hiking their own way, paying for what they buy, and seeming to get along with other hikers around them, makes us look petty and small, it negates the big hearts and open arms that I am used to seeing from the hiking community.
You are bigger than this people, show it, by leaving them alone, just because I don't like someone doesn't mean I have to beat them to a bloody pulp.
And...anyone who actually knows me, knows that I defend my friends, when necessary, and Ron knows that I've got his back...but Ron is a big boy and can take care of himself where these two asshats are concerned he doesn't need my protection or yours, the word has already moved ahead of them via WB, the job is done.
I agree,even though I didn't appreciate the way they were bashing Ron, I believe in the end they realize everything doesn't revolve around them and that maybe they were in the wrong(But as long as the bashing continues it is just going to fuel the fire)
We all know the true Ron Haven and that should be all that matters and this definetly proves that you can't please everybody.
From reading their post it didn't seem that they complained so much that we should be complaining so much about their complaint..
Panzer
At this point...leave'em alone. I just read their guestbook and some of us are giving "us" a bad name. They had every right to feel the way they feel. Their mistake is that they posted it on a public forum...a journal is for you, but when it is public you should be prepared to leave certain things out...or take the heat. She should have told the whole story, but that being said, she didn't, so we make ourselves look bad, and we make Ron look bad by not letting it go.
Many of us love Ron to death and would go out of our way to help him if needed. That shows the character of the man. Bashing someone who did a stupid thing, who is hiking their own way, paying for what they buy, and seeming to get along with other hikers around them, makes us look petty and small, it negates the big hearts and open arms that I am used to seeing from the hiking community.
You are bigger than this people, show it, by leaving them alone, just because I don't like someone doesn't mean I have to beat them to a bloody pulp.
And...anyone who actually knows me, knows that I defend my friends, when necessary, and Ron knows that I've got his back...but Ron is a big boy and can take care of himself where these two asshats are concerned he doesn't need my protection or yours, the word has already moved ahead of them via WB, the job is done.
Hmmmm.....sounds familiar.........;)
From 3-4 days ago:
Just don't go flam'n their guestbook like Gatorgump's last year. Makes whiteblaze look like a bunch of 'packsniffer' groupie cyber-hikers.
Funny she thinks it was Ron Haven, though. Completely escapes her mind that they may have been in the wrong back in Franklin.
Almost There
03-09-2008, 21:49
Hmmmm.....sounds familiar.........;)
From 3-4 days ago:
Funny she thinks it was Ron Haven, though. Completely escapes her mind that they may have been in the wrong back in Franklin.
Or as many do, she doesn't realize how tight a certain element of the trail community is...or regardless of the back and forth on WB alot of us consider each other like family.:D
Ron Haven
03-09-2008, 22:18
Or as many do, she doesn't realize how tight a certain element of the trail community is...or regardless of the back and forth on WB alot of us consider each other like family.:DThis is very true.He said it like I posted things on his journal but I had someone at Cloud9 yesterday tell me about comments on their journals.I looked and he thinks I posted it but I did not.
400+ posts and it only took these two words to get to the crux of the issue. Spoiled yuppie?
dessertrat
03-09-2008, 23:41
My only problem with these people is that they don't say they got their money back. They act as though they were inconvenienced with no apology or gesture of goodwill, and that's not fair.
dessertrat
03-09-2008, 23:43
400+ posts and it only took these two words to get to the crux of the issue.
Ron, I hope you are happy now that the posse is riding out of town.
BTW, you don't remember changing shuttle times?
:mad:
Hmm. . . one post, registered March 9.
BTW, you don't remember getting a refund?:mad: (First time ever on Whiteblaze that I've used that little red face!)
RITBlake
03-09-2008, 23:51
I guess my question is how does Ron Haven find the time to post all those comments on their trail journals?
I guess my question is how does Ron Haven find the time to post all those comments on their trail journals?
RIT Blake,
My thoughts exactly.
Allow me to make some prophesies.
The hikers in question will be threatened.
The hikers in question will retreat from the trail in fear.
The hikers in question will file suite for damages.
The hikers in question will win.
In reading the originating complaint by the hikers; I see nothing but an explanation of facts as they perceived them. Whinny with color but no libel, and no intended malice. The hikers posted on a 'personal' journal that has no avenue for continued contentious argument.
The business owner chose not to post a single reply to the journal entry; he chose however to create threads and posts in several different publications.
The business owner made his attacks argumentum ad hominem and not factual.
His publications intended malice and has now caused actionable harm.
His continued comments fan the flames.
He has impugned another's ethnic origin in several and continuing posts.
He is by extension displaying racist thought.
He has damaged the hiking community by the marketing of his hate speech.
He has damaged the hikers in question and placed them knowingly in danger.
This needs to stop, this thread needs to be pulled before real bodily harm is done.
Stop now RON!!! End while the argument is a simple civil matter. Don't fan this to a personal injury case or worse a wrongful death case.
Cheers
I closed this thread because Velcro has a couple of valid points. We have seen this happen before on WhiteBlaze and it has gone to far in the posts and carried over to the trail.