View Full Version : WNC Mountain Lion
I'm becoming more and more certain that I have one (or more) Mountain Lions that frequent my property just off the AT.
I've been seeing tracks that I couldn't quite place. And one night I heard some screams that really gave me chills. But I had attributed these things to coyotes and dogs and maybe even bobcats.
But I've been reading up on scat and sounds and such.
And I'm really beginning to think that I've got a mountain lion or two.
The night of the screaming . . . it was coming from two different spots.
And the scat has been more and more noticeable the last few times I've been up there.
I should have taken pictures today while I was looking at it, but . . . it looks very much like canine poo . . .except it's segmented and FULL of hair.
Anyone else know of documented mountain lion sightings in and around Wolf Laurel??
I've got a motion-sensitive digital camera that I'm planning to set up the next time. And I'll be getting some pictures of the poop and tracks.
Ramble~On
05-27-2008, 23:44
There's been a couple threads fairly recently about research being conducted in the Apps.
Saying that you've seen one may be along the lines of claiming to see Bigfoot - to some anyway.
I was ever skeptic..I'd heard plenty of tales and a friend claimed to have lost livestock to a cougar..she isn't one to tell stories and I believe her.
I never saw one...in fact I'd pretty much written the stories off..until one crossed the road in front of my truck. I know what I saw. I've lived out west. There is no animal that size with a long tail. (PERIOD)
--Now, how'd it get there ? was it a pet some knucklehead released and I was fortunate enough to see it or is there a hush-hush reintroduction effort underway via private or gov. funds? - I don't know.
Yeah, I've read that they're thought to only live in Florida in this region.
And I'll be the first to admit that I'm as far from an expert on this stuff as you can get.
Whatever is leaving these tracks and scat is frequenting a trail near my workshop. There are several piles of poo of varying age. And they're not covered with leaves or loose dirt or anything the way I've read bobcats do.
Does anyone have some WNC contacts for someone who might be able to confirm just from tracks and scat?
As I said, I'm going to photograph what is up there. And I'm going to try to set up my camera to capture whatever it is.
Bulldawg
05-28-2008, 00:02
Well the college there, WNC, that is, their mascot is the Catamount!!
Well the college there, WNC, that is, their mascot is the Catamount!!
You mean WCU...:D
Bulldawg
05-28-2008, 08:13
You mean WCU...:D
Yeppers, you knew what I meant!!
modiyooch
05-28-2008, 08:26
I believe one was spotted at South Mt State Park, south of Morganton, NC memorial day.
sasquatch2014
05-28-2008, 08:49
--Now, how'd it get there ? was it a pet some knucklehead released and I was fortunate enough to see it or is there a hush-hush reintroduction effort underway via private or gov. funds? - I don't know.
Not sure but maybe its doing a SoBo Hike and got here the same way. It walked. I know there are a few good pics in the WB gallery of a lion up in western NY. I have no doubt that they are around either by their own hand or someone else's. I am just glad to know that I get to be out there where I am not the top of the food chain. It helps keep one in check as to our place in things. I too lived out west and had an opportunity to see one up close it is something that I will always cherish.
I know there are a few good pics in the WB gallery of a lion up in western NY.
Those were supposedly from Hornell, NY - but proved to be fake.
RAW, please share with us what you discover.
sasquatch2014
05-28-2008, 09:51
I wasn't aware of that. Where they taken somewhere else? They were cool shots where ever they were taken.
I wasn't aware of that. Where they taken somewhere else? They were cool shots where ever they were taken.
Check this out - http://www.planetjh.com/opinion/A_100596.aspx
I saw a dead one on I-95 at just south of the Virginia border in 1999.
sasquatch2014
05-28-2008, 21:52
Check this out - http://www.planetjh.com/opinion/A_100596.aspx
Ah its a Wyoming Kitty. I wonder if it knows Footslogger? Its a small state after all.:D
I walked down one of the trails where I usually see the most tracks and scat.
But there wasn't much new activity . . . and with the heavy rain last night . . . no tracks.
Even so, I did get some poo pictures.
Oldest
http://steelgod.smugmug.com/photos/320930934_uE4Jo-M.jpg
Newer
http://steelgod.smugmug.com/photos/320931288_9DsKx-M.jpg
Newest
http://steelgod.smugmug.com/photos/320931726_PK53Q-M.jpg
Now, I'm not an expert . . . so some of these might not even be from the same animal. For example, I saw another pile that was much smaller in diameter . . . but otherwise appeared similar (segmented and hairy). My brain tells me the smaller one is a bobcat or something. And the larger one is the potential mountain lion.
:confused:
And unfortunately, my motion-triggered camera's batteries died!!
No images. Damnit.
john gault
06-27-2008, 14:36
Some scat
http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/vines/1318/scat.html
jaywalke
06-27-2008, 14:41
Some scat
Whiteblaze is the best place to read about interesting s**t.
I mean it. I can always find the straight poop here, even in the off-season when posts are dropping.
john gault
06-27-2008, 14:47
Tracks
http://www.bear-tracker.com/caninevsfeline.html
NICKTHEGREEK
06-27-2008, 15:39
Keep in mind while you are looking to find cat trace, Mr or Ms cat knows exactly where you are, and wonders how you'd taste for dinner. Be careful out there.
Keep in mind while you are looking to find cat trace, Mr or Ms cat knows exactly where you are, and wonders how you'd taste for dinner. Be careful out there.
All of that scat is old. And I don't think anyone has to worry about being eaten by Mountain Lions in WNC. :rolleyes: There really isn't a single shred of evidence that a viable population exists there. I suppose there may be an individual cat here & there though.
envirodiver
06-27-2008, 16:58
About 20 or so years ago I understand that panthers were introduced into GSMNP to try and control the deer and boar population. Didn't help with boar so wolves were introduced also.
Don't remember the details since I've slept several times since then, but if that was the case I would expect that several of the cats and wolves would have migrated out of the park, unless those collars and that invisible fence is working especially well.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-27-2008, 17:12
I'm pretty sure I saw a mountain lion in the Smokies on Cold Spring Gap trail about 3 miles from the intersection of Hazel Creek Trail. It was about 30 years ago, just getting light enough to see clearly and I was on my way to a water source from a stealth camp when I spotted a big cat on the next rise - I know bob cats and I know panthers - this was way too big to be either one - and way too light in color to be a skinny bear (and it had a long tail and cat head and ears). It turned around, looked at me and took off up a hill into the woods. It moved like a cat.
envirodiver
06-27-2008, 17:28
Evidently you're not the only one that has seen Mtn. Lions in the GSMNP.
http://www.discoverlife.org/nh/tx/Vertebrata/Mammalia/Felidae/Puma/concolor/
Culbertson (1977 (http://www.discoverlife.org/nh/tx/Vertebrata/Mammalia/Felidae/Puma/concolor/#1977)) examined the status and history of this species in the park. Twelve sightings were reported for the years 1908-1965 and 31 sightings for the years 1966-1976. Culbertson stated: "The number of lion sightings through the years suggest that the mountain lion may never have actually been extinct in the Great Smoky Mountains area. The lion may have been able to maintain itself in small numbers in the more inaccessible mountainous regions in or around the park. The present lion population could be derived in part from this small reservoir... It is believed that there were three to six mountain lions living in the park in 1975, and other lions were reported to the southeast and northeast of the park as well. Lions were seen most frequently near areas of high deer density."
NICKTHEGREEK
06-27-2008, 17:30
All of that scat is old. And I don't think anyone has to worry about being eaten by Mountain Lions in WNC. :rolleyes: There really isn't a single shred of evidence that a viable population exists there. I suppose there may be an individual cat here & there though.
So is that a yes, a no, or a maybe? And in your experience how many cats are required to eat something?
And in your experience how many cats are required to eat something?
Well, I suppose one, but the next cat to eat someone in the east, will be the first in an awfully long time to do so. Cat attacks are very rare in the US. Rarer than shark attacks. Much rarer than lightening strikes. They are essentially non-existent in the east in modern times. While I wouldn't want to be the first here in the east, I wouldn't devote a drop of energy to worrying about it. I'll just remain hopeful that one day I'll catch a fleeting glimpse. Maybe I'll see one on the JMT in a few weeks. I sure hope so. But I sincerely doubt I will.
I'll add that some folks who live in lion country live their whole lives without ever seeing one.
john gault
06-27-2008, 17:54
If you want to see one, ride a bike, it seems to kick-in their predatory instints really well.:p
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-27-2008, 18:10
Given the facts that lions prefer deer as food and deer are not hunted in the GSMNP and have no other predators in the park, it is unlikely that a lion living in the GSMNP would attack a human as there are ample 'forest rats' for food.
boarstone
06-27-2008, 18:10
take and pick up the scat, no bare hands here, and put into ziploc bag or some form of plastic container, take to local University science lab and they will analize it...:eek:
notorius tic
06-27-2008, 18:12
I Personaly saw a Florida panther in Lakeland FL about 10 yrs ago An a good friend of mine works for the FFWGC. I called him an we tract it for about 3 miles into a swamp with the recent development back then it was out of its Habitat.. It was a 160lbs.. Just a remarkable site to see a Black Couger..
Homer&Marje
06-27-2008, 19:26
All of that scat is old. And I don't think anyone has to worry about being eaten by Mountain Lions in WNC. :rolleyes: There really isn't a single shred of evidence that a viable population exists there. I suppose there may be an individual cat here & there though.
Those skat pictures are of old skat. But it is definitely cat skat. And it only takes 3 days without rain for it to go gray. I am not an expert i do know some things tho, like the mountain lion population in the eastern mountains has been documented on the rise since 1996. 2 reports were initially posted i believe in NH or VT i forget about a pair of mountain lions that traveled together. Since then, obviously there has been
sheepdog
06-27-2008, 19:46
House cats bury their skat. Do mountain lions?
take and pick up the scat, no bare hands here, and put into ziploc bag or some form of plastic container, take to local University science lab and they will analize it...:eek:
Post of the day. Look for hair in the surrounding area. (Not in the poo.)
House cats bury their skat. Do mountain lions?
What I've read on the internet (so it must be true) is that bobcats will usually bury or hide their scat. But mountain lions will leave it out in the open, usually in the middle of a trail or clearing.
And that is one of the many reasons I suspect mountain lion in this case.
sheepdog
06-27-2008, 20:47
What I've read on the internet (so it must be true) is that bobcats will usually bury or hide their scat. But mountain lions will leave it out in the open, usually in the middle of a trail or clearing.
And that is one of the many reasons I suspect mountain lion in this case.
Will the local DNR run a check on it to see if it is from a mountain lion?
It seems like they would be interested.
I've sent an email to see who I should contact.
Raw,,You say the screaming is at night? and there were two?
MT Lion(s) are solitary creatures, there won't be two together this time of year( non mating season) and they don't hunt after dark (denned up),maybe you need batteries for trail cam, because the un-buried scat does pose a question, but the truth is yes we do have cougars here in our mountains and yes they are spotted on occasion. NCDWC says it is possible, but after roaming these mountains for forty-plus years,i quit trying to convince others:D I know what I know what I see,, I have a couple 35#-plus bobcats right here in my woodlot,and they have BIG feet also.
Get pics then NOBODY can dispute your suspicions.
Moses
Porcupines "scream" during mating season. I've heard them on the Long Trail in Vermont.
Raw,,You say the screaming is at night? and there were two?
The screaming incident was late one night, probably 11pm or so.
And we thought we heard the screams coming from two different ridges, where the AT comes near my property. Hard to say for sure though.
sheepdog
06-27-2008, 21:44
Porcupines "scream" during mating season. I've heard them on the Long Trail in Vermont.
Think about it, it's gotta be painful.:D
OutdoorsMan
06-27-2008, 21:45
All of that scat is old. And I don't think anyone has to worry about being eaten by Mountain Lions in WNC. :rolleyes: There really isn't a single shred of evidence that a viable population exists there. I suppose there may be an individual cat here & there though.
How can there be an INDIVIDUAL cat. It takes two to make one, right?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-27-2008, 21:45
RAW, did the screams sound like a woman being killed? If so, you heard bobcats. Those things are scary to listen to in the woods.
john gault
06-27-2008, 22:28
I think there are a number of animals that make that kind of scream. I was tenting one night, during a bike trip, and the sun had just set. All of a sudden out of nowhere one of those blood-curdling screams bellowed from about 10 feet above my head (in a tree). I about S**t myself, never knew animals did that. My first thought was the Blair Witch (yes I thought I was being stalked by a ghost/witch/boogieman...). After a while I finally composed myself and realized it must of been something more of this world. I've since heard there are many animals that are capable of making these noises.
SmokyMtn Hiker
06-27-2008, 22:42
This mountain lion was hit by a car in Jackson County County, NC last month while traveling on US 64 between Cashiers and Highlands. They said it weighed 260 pounds.4343
4344
How can there be an INDIVIDUAL cat. It takes two to make one, right?
There are 20 mountain lions in captivity in SE Tennessee. That's just SE Tennessee. If one is released or escapes, you have an "individual" animal. I would be interested to see a DNA analysis of any cat killed here in the east. The last that I was aware of had (KY) had genes from a cat from So. America.
Homer&Marje
06-27-2008, 23:17
I saw a paw print in the berkshires, sure it was a big cat, not as big as that picture!! that's a big mountain lion, think they are growing that big because of protected deer supply?
Anyone know if lions prefer to follow the trail? the print that i saw was perpendicular to the trail as if crossing it... should have taken a picture but i was so tired at the end of a day
john gault
06-27-2008, 23:18
Those were supposedly from Hornell, NY - but proved to be fake.
RAW, please share with us what you discover.
Check this out - http://www.planetjh.com/opinion/A_100596.aspx
This mountain lion was hit by a car in Jackson County County, NC last month while traveling on US 64 between Cashiers and Highlands. They said it weighed 260 pounds.4343
4344
Sounds like a "NY mountain lion story". Why wasn't it in the news
Homer&Marje
06-27-2008, 23:20
This mountain lion was hit by a car in Jackson County County, NC last month while traveling on US 64 between Cashiers and Highlands. They said it weighed 260 pounds.4343
4344
You a taxadermist Smkymntn? awful lotta deer horns in the back room there. Not going on a witch hunt:-?, just wondering
SmokyMtn Hiker
06-27-2008, 23:29
You a taxadermist Smkymntn? awful lotta deer horns in the back room there. Not going on a witch hunt:-?, just wondering
The photos and the story behind them were sent to me by my younger brother as an email. The man who hit the lion has a neighbor who is a taxadermist and is going to "stuff" the animal. The lion was not killed on impact, a NC Game Warden came out and had to put the animal down. I work in the auto collision industry and would like to see the vehicle that hit it.
john gault
06-27-2008, 23:34
Just seems like it would have been all over the news.
SmokyMtn Hiker
06-27-2008, 23:44
Just seems like it would have been all over the news.
I tried to find out more about it myself via the internet because the place where this happened is less than 2 hours from me, but no luck. I have showed the pictures to several people who think this was someone's illeagal pet that got loose and they kept their mounth shut about it. The story also said it was seen days before by locals dragging off a 325 pound steer, so who knows your guess is as good as mine.
Flush2wice
06-28-2008, 01:31
This mountain lion was hit by a car in Jackson County County, NC last month while traveling on US 64 between Cashiers and Highlands. They said it weighed 260 pounds.4343
4344
I saw a paw print in the berkshires, sure it was a big cat, not as big as that picture!! that's a big mountain lion, think they are growing that big because of protected deer supply?
Anyone know if lions prefer to follow the trail? the print that i saw was perpendicular to the trail as if crossing it... should have taken a picture but i was so tired at the end of a day
Sounds like a "NY mountain lion story". Why wasn't it in the news
You a taxadermist Smkymntn? awful lotta deer horns in the back room there. Not going on a witch hunt:-?, just wondering
The photos and the story behind them were sent to me by my younger brother as an email. The man who hit the lion has a neighbor who is a taxadermist and is going to "stuff" the animal. The lion was not killed on impact, a NC Game Warden came out and had to put the animal down. I work in the auto collision industry and would like to see the vehicle that hit it.
Just seems like it would have been all over the news.
I tried to find out more about it myself via the internet because the place where this happened is less than 2 hours from me, but no luck. I have showed the pictures to several people who think this was someone's illeagal pet that got loose and they kept their mounth shut about it. The story also said it was seen days before by locals dragging off a 325 pound steer, so who knows your guess is as good as mine.
Sorry to bust your bubble but that's a fake story. That cat was from Arizona. http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/mountainlion2007.asp
There are no confirmed "wild" eastern mountain lions in the US. Only stories. Google it.
john gault
06-28-2008, 02:06
Sorry to bust your bubble but that's a fake story. That cat was from Arizona. http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/mountainlion2007.asp
There are no confirmed "wild" eastern mountain lions in the US. Only stories. Google it.
No bubble to burst here, but thanks for the link.
envirodiver
06-28-2008, 10:30
This mountain lion was hit by a car in Jackson County County, NC last month while traveling on US 64 between Cashiers and Highlands. They said it weighed 260 pounds.4343
4344
..............
Flush2wice
06-28-2008, 11:38
No bubble to burst here, but thanks for the link.
Sorry, I didn't mean that in a snobby way. I guess it sounded like it. My bad.
john gault
06-28-2008, 11:59
No offense, I knew someone here would shed some light.:sun
Incahiker
07-07-2008, 14:25
I was riding my motorcycle over on the dirt roads around Talledega national forest in Alabama, the part that is near cedartown Ga. near the Ga. Border. I was coming around a bend in the road and saw a Mountain lion right in the middle of the road. There was no question about it. It was Large and had a very long tail. It easily cleared about 10 feet with one jump and as soon as it went into the forest it disappeared. Really kind of freaked me out since I knew it was still on the edge of the forest service road in the woods watching me. So I took off.
Ron Haven
07-07-2008, 20:52
I'm pretty sure I saw a mountain lion in the Smokies on Cold Spring Gap trail about 3 miles from the intersection of Hazel Creek Trail. It was about 30 years ago, just getting light enough to see clearly and I was on my way to a water source from a stealth camp when I spotted a big cat on the next rise - I know bob cats and I know panthers - this was way too big to be either one - and way too light in color to be a skinny bear (and it had a long tail and cat head and ears). It turned around, looked at me and took off up a hill into the woods. It moved like a cat.This spring I met two very nice hikers and made friends right away.Their trail name was Punch line and Tag.I was shuttling them up to Mooney Gap on FS67.Just about the time we were coming upon Timber Ridge Trail not that far from Carter Gap.A large cat about the size of a boxer bulldog ran right out in the front of us.I was raised in these parts and I never had seen nothing to compare with a cat this size before.
We debated on what kind of a cat it was but a cougar or a mtn lion was our guess.
This mountain lion was hit by a car in Jackson County County, NC last month while traveling on US 64 between Cashiers and Highlands. They said it weighed 260 pounds.4343
4344
These same photos were shown here in W. KY supposedly happened down the road from here. As stated earlier, was a hoax traced to that AZ story. For a few minutes, there was some excitement in the hunting crowd!
jaywalke
07-08-2008, 09:48
We debated on what kind of a cat it was but a cougar or a mtn lion was our guess.
Just for the sake of clarification, these are the same thing. Puma concolor are called many things--mountain lion, cougar, panther, painter, puma, catamount, mountain screamer--all are regional names for the same animal.
Some of the most descriptive names come from the Native Americans: ghost cat, forest devil, etc. The Chickasaw, according to one article I read, called it something that translated as "the cat of god."
johnnybgood
07-12-2008, 00:47
I along with my wife were driving north approx. six miles south of Dickeys Ridge in the Shenandoah N.P. when suddenly a large sleek cat boundedacross the road a few hundred yards ahead of us quickly disappearing ovver the rock wall and down the side of the mountain.That was some 18 years ago but the memory is still fresh in my mind.
Ramble~On
07-12-2008, 05:13
These same photos were shown here in W. KY supposedly happened down the road from here. As stated earlier, was a hoax traced to that AZ story. For a few minutes, there was some excitement in the hunting crowd!
I live in Jackson County, NC. I had heard about this story at work and wanted to see pictures. Seeing is well...you know.
A friend showed me the pictures on her phone. When I got home I searched the web for the story and it wasn't long before I too ran across the hoax story. Seems these same photos have been popping up all over the place since the actual event took place in Arizona.
Are there mountain lions in WNC - YES, there are. I have seen one.
In all the time I've lived here and all the hiking around these mountains I have seen one mountain lion and that was for a very short time as it bounded across the road in front of my truck. I spend a fair amount of time out in the woods alone covered head to toe in camo with a super-telephoto lens, camera and binos...I've seen and photographed all sorts of critters and I still hope to be lucky enough to photograph a mountain lion.
I saw one and many that I know claim to have seen them here as well.
It isn't impossible but I am still a skeptic..The one that I saw may very well have been someone's pet at one time and they turned it loose in GSMNP and I was lucky enough to see it. I find it hard to believe that there could be a breeding population in WNC that hasn't been discovered, shot or hit by cars etc. I do not know much about these big cats but being big they'd have to eat to survive and I doubt an animal like that has a diet made up of grass and berries...livestock would be a prime target for these cats and with that I'd imagine that farmers would have shot atleast one by now or caught images on a game camera. There are large tracts of forested land in the SE and a very smart cat could squeeze out a very stealthy life...I like to hope that there are some doing just that.
SloHiker
07-24-2008, 14:22
While the "proof" remains to be revealed, there's no reason to believe that cougars/panthers could not inhabit any heavily wooded area east of the big river. They were indigenous to most of North America at one time, and the exploding deer population would certainly support ANY population of the big cats. By nature, they are reclusive animals (unless they lose their fear of humans), so they can live pretty much anywhere without being discovered.
Jaguars have been "migrating" back into the desert SW (TX, NM, AZ) for years and wildlife officials have just recently admitted their possible/probable existence.
When I lived in the Sunshine State many years ago, I personally saw the Florida sub-species on one occasion in an area where there weren't many documented sightings. And there's certainly the possibility that some of them migrated out of the state because they didn't know where the state line was ....... ;)
And BTW, I wouldn't wait for wildlife officials to make the call - most of ones I've met in my state suffer terribly from N.I.H. - NOT INVENTED HERE ...... if they didn't think of it, then it couldn't possibly be plausible.
Just as an update:
My neighbor has been up on the property with some equipment clearing some trees for me (and collecting firewood for himself). And I haven't seen the same signs in the same places.
I plan to be up there more in the spring and summer this year. I'm gonna make it my mission to find some clearer prints and fresher scat to photograph.