View Full Version : Fatal bear attack list...
Incahiker
06-17-2008, 16:35
I just found this on wikipedia. I am sure many of you have seen it, but for many of you that haven't, here it is.
Seems like black bears have more fatal attacks more then grizzlys, which I didn't expect. It especially seems like the black bears in Canada are particularly aggressive.
I guess since there are more blacks then grizzly bears the numbers play them selves out, but I still didn't know there were so many black bear attacks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America_by_dec ade
4eyedbuzzard
06-17-2008, 16:41
Yeah, they're more than just overgrown raccoons. A lot of black bear attacks happen in the spring before food sources become abundant. A lot of the fatal attacks are by rogue males as well, not just females defending their cubs. Sows will defend their cub(s) any time of year, but will often break off an attack once they've satified the protection instinct and return to their cub(s). A male bear that does attack is likely out to kill and eat you, period.
Incahiker
06-17-2008, 16:47
Well then, I guess I will go ahead and get my bear spray then....
Go figure, these are animals that can weigh up to 700 lbs, they can swat at you and crush your skull in a single blow, or bite down into you and cause sever bleeding. Don't think we would really stand a chance if one decided you were dinner.
But how often do black bears actually hunt deer or wild hogs? Does that ever happen?
john gault
06-17-2008, 16:49
Well then, I guess I will go ahead and get my bear spray then....
Go figure, these are animals that can weigh up to 700 lbs, they can swat at you and crush your skull in a single blow, or bite down into you and cause sever bleeding. Don't think we would really stand a chance if one decided you were dinner.
But how often do black bears actually hunt deer or wild hogs? Does that ever happen?
I had a friend see one hunt down a fawn in SNP, all the mother could do was snort and make some other weird noises. There's some truth to what 4eyedbuzzard says.
_terrapin_
06-17-2008, 16:50
But how often do black bears actually hunt deer or wild hogs? Does that ever happen?
Ask Bill Bryson, he's the bear expert.
just kidding... :D
4eyedbuzzard
06-17-2008, 16:57
Well then, I guess I will go ahead and get my bear spray then....
Go figure, these are animals that can weigh up to 700 lbs, they can swat at you and crush your skull in a single blow, or bite down into you and cause sever bleeding. Don't think we would really stand a chance if one decided you were dinner.
But how often do black bears actually hunt deer or wild hogs? Does that ever happen?
Most don't get that big. 400 is usually considered a big bear. Usually they're more in the 250 to 350 range. They'll go after fawns and injured animals like deer and moose. Mostly they just scavenge though. But here's a youtube of a black bear taking a young moose. http://youtube.com/watch?v=-JVkaMqD5mI&feature=related So it does happen.
le loupe
06-17-2008, 17:18
while not a statistics professor it seems this is a misleading point.
The grizzly bear population is estimated at 50-100,000 versus 800,000 black bears.
On its face Grizzlies cause 8x the number of deaths of black bears.
multiply that by the interface of the much larger black bear population with the much larger east coast population and you have very reduced frequency of death from encounter with black bear.
minnesotasmith
06-17-2008, 17:23
Since records started being kept around 1939, about 50% more fatal attacks on humans in Alaska have been committed by dogs than by bears. This is in a state with gumploads of both black and brown bears.
john gault
06-17-2008, 17:25
while not a statistics professor it seems this is a misleading point.
The grizzly bear population is estimated at 50-100,000 versus 800,000 black bears.
On its face Grizzlies cause 8x the number of deaths of black bears.
multiply that by the interface of the much larger black bear population with the much larger east coast population and you have very reduced frequency of death from encounter with black bear.
Your probably correct, for the most part. I would be more nervous around a grizzly than a black bear. However, it would be erroneous thinking to believe the black bear is harmless.
le loupe
06-17-2008, 17:30
erroneous thinking to believe the black bear is harmless.
Death is death!
john gault
06-17-2008, 17:43
Can't argue with that.
Appalachian Tater
06-17-2008, 17:45
How many bears have been killed by people vs. people killed by bears? And not just directly, but by habitat destruction?
4eyedbuzzard
06-17-2008, 17:47
How many bears have been killed by people vs. people killed by bears? And not just directly, but by habitat destruction?
Why do you ask?
Appalachian Tater
06-17-2008, 17:49
Why do you ask?People seem more fascinated with bear attacks than attacked bears.
4eyedbuzzard
06-17-2008, 17:53
Yeah, it's a self-preservation thing.
But more dogs are credited with fatal attacks than bears... be aware of the bears, you dont have to be afraid of them... http://http://www.dogexpert.com/FatalDogAttacks/fataldogattacks.html
sows will defend their cub(s) any time of year, but will often break off an attack once they've satified the protection instinct and return to their cub(s)
In my (limited) experience sows run away and leave their cubs to run up a tree and fend for themselves. The sows have come back, but sheepishly.
I am sure there are some tough mamas out there, but I have seen the opposite.
YMMV.
john gault
06-17-2008, 19:29
But more dogs are credited with fatal attacks than bears... be aware of the bears, you dont have to be afraid of them... http://http://www.dogexpert.com/FatalDogAttacks/fataldogattacks.html
I can't get the link to work, but it's a great point, I bet the numbers of people killed by dogs dwarf the bear numbers.
I read on the Glacier National Park website that drowning while crossing rivers causes about eight times as many deaths as by bears in the Park.
I read on the Glacier National Park website that drowning while crossing rivers causes about eight times as many deaths as by bears in the Park.
Most of them were chased into the river by bears. :rolleyes:
4eyedbuzzard
06-17-2008, 19:37
Most of them were chased into the river by bears. :rolleyes:
Maybe they could get rid of the ferry now that Steve is done and just let the bears motivate hikers across the Kennebec.
I tried the link too... hmm... Just google: fatal dog attacks united states; and its the top result...
Odd Thomas
06-17-2008, 19:58
People seem more fascinated with bear attacks than attacked bears.
What's fascinating about an attacked bear?
oldfivetango
06-17-2008, 20:26
What's fascinating about an attacked bear?
Because everyone knows(well certain people anyway) that the
sweet little furry creatures of nature are more valuable than human
life.
They believe this,of course,until things aren't going their way
and then they get smart real quick.
What has shocked me in this forum is the aversion so many have
for bear spray and/or any other sort of protection from predators of
the four or two legged variety.
Bear spray works on a variety of bad animals,even bears!
Oldfivetango
_terrapin_
06-17-2008, 20:31
Bear spray works on a variety of bad animals,even bears!
"Bad" animals, eh? Very enlightened post, as usual. :rolleyes:
Recent article here (http://bangornews.com/news/t/city.aspx?articleid=165767&zoneid=176) on a mama bear that took a swipe at a mtn biker in Bangor city forest.
Appalachian Tater
06-17-2008, 20:53
Because everyone knows(well certain people anyway) that the
sweet little furry creatures of nature are more valuable than human
life.
Well, we've killed enough species to discount that theory. Jury is still out on whether or not we wipe ourselves out, as well.
john gault
06-17-2008, 20:57
Well, we've killed enough species to discount that theory. Jury is still out on whether or not we wipe ourselves out, as well.
Nature will wipe us out, regardless of how nice we are to all other living creatures, including ourselves.
4eyedbuzzard
06-17-2008, 21:02
Well, we've killed enough species to discount that theory. Jury is still out on whether or not we wipe ourselves out, as well.
Black bears are not an endangered species. And even if they were, I would not hesitate to kill one if it attacked me - or you.
_terrapin_
06-17-2008, 21:07
Nature will wipe us out, regardless of how nice we are to all other living creatures, including ourselves.
I'm not sure why this has to be a given -- there are species that have been around for many tens of millions of years. But given our current behavior and population growth, I'm afraid you may be right.
Odd Thomas
06-17-2008, 21:28
Because everyone knows(well certain people anyway) that the
sweet little furry creatures of nature are more valuable than human
life.
They believe this,of course,until things aren't going their way
and then they get smart real quick.
What has shocked me in this forum is the aversion so many have
for bear spray and/or any other sort of protection from predators of
the four or two legged variety.
Bear spray works on a variety of bad animals,even bears!
Oldfivetango
Can anyone even quote how many bears have been attacked?
How many bears have been killed by people vs. people killed by bears? And not just directly, but by habitat destruction?
Stupidity score: 6.9
American judge, 7.8;
French judge, 7.5;
Russian judge, 5.5
blackies are known to stalk people up here.. grizz, wrong place wrong time. Blackies kill you and eat you.. grizz bury you alive then come back later.
Montana Mac
06-17-2008, 22:12
I guide in and around Yellowstone NP - Griz encounters are a very common thing in my job. During a four day trip we encountered 9 griz. But the facts are, over the years in Yellowstone, more people have been killed in each of the following categories than by grizs:
Indian attacks
Stage coach wrecks
Suicide
I carry bear spray as an everyday item. Thankfully I have not had to use it. My closest encounter was way to close - a griz that came out of new growth evergreens. A griz, even a young one, standing on his hind feet at approx. 40 feet away does get ones attention:eek:
The majority of people attacked by a griz in YNP violate all common sense rules and try to get way to close. An interesting book to read is The Attack of The Grizzly. People describe their encounters and attacks from grizzly bears and what led up to the attack.
Here is an informative article about bear behavior and safety. (From the University of Alberta.) It covers the different types of bears, different types of attacks and safety measures. The article is kind of long but is informative, with a few surprises. Atleast to me.
http://safety.eas.ualberta.ca/node/13
In the "List of Fatal Bear Attacks" I counted 6 people pulled from their tents and killed.
Panzer
le loupe
06-17-2008, 23:02
another derivative
only 9 deaths by black bears occurred in the lower 48 states
5 of those were on juveniles
only 1 was in an AT state - NY
wilconow
06-17-2008, 23:25
another derivative
only 9 deaths by black bears occurred in the lower 48 states
5 of those were on juveniles
only 1 was in an AT state - NY
tennessee is an AT state
le loupe
06-17-2008, 23:35
tennessee is an AT state
missed that one - Two deaths in two AT states = low probability of death by black bear.
Going to Griz country.:banana:banana:banana:banana
Incahiker
06-18-2008, 00:22
missed that one - Two deaths in two AT states = low probability of death by black bear.
Actually, 3 deaths in AT states within the last 10 years. 2 in Tennessee, 1 near Gattlinburg where an adult lady was killed by a momma black bear and her cub and partially eaten. Then another in Chilhowee near Benton Falls where a 6 year old girl was killed by a black bear. Then that other one you talked about in NY.
4eyedbuzzard
06-18-2008, 00:22
missed that one - Two deaths in two AT states = low probability of death by black bear.
Three. But still a very low probability. These are just the fatalities though, there are likely a lot more non-fatal attacks and/or aggresion incidents that we don't have any source material on here.
2006 Elora Petrasek, age 6, in Cherokee Nat'l Forest http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/16/bear.attack/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/16/bear.attack/index.html)
2000 Glenda Ann Bradley, age 50, in GSMNP http://www.southeasternoutdoors.com/wildlife/mammals/smoky-mountain-fatal-bear-attack.html (http://www.southeasternoutdoors.com/wildlife/mammals/smoky-mountain-fatal-bear-attack.html)
2002 Ester Schwimmer, age 5 months, in Fallsburg, NY http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/20/national/main519289.shtml
Incahiker
06-18-2008, 00:24
Going to Griz country.:banana:banana:banana:banana
Grizz country is some of the most beautiful country we have here. Wish I could go, but Grizzlys scare the crap outta me. I think the only way I could camp out for a week in an area that resembles that is in New Zealand, all the beauty, none of the predators. :banana
_terrapin_
06-18-2008, 00:28
I don't think I'd enjoy a grizzly encounter at close range in the wild, myself. As luck would have it, I managed to survive (and in fact enjoy) my one and only black-bear encounter on the AT.
Incahiker
06-18-2008, 00:36
My only black bear encounter was riding home from Amicalola state park on my VTX 1300 motorcycle. I was on 136 heading west and out of the mountains came some massive behemoth of an animal. I had to slam on my breaks to keep from hitting it. It stopped right in the middle of the road, only about maybe 20 feet from where I stopped. It stayed on all 4s but we stared at each other for what seemed like minutes. After he was done staring me down he gently walked off the street and down the mountain like nothing happened. Wasn't scared of my motorcycle or me. Kinda made me nervous since the road was really narrow and I had no room to make a u turn on. It was almost a spiritual experience though.
_terrapin_
06-18-2008, 00:39
It was almost a spiritual experience though.
Odd how that goes. When an animal capable of killing and eating you... decides not to.
Flush2wice
06-18-2008, 00:39
But how often do black bears actually hunt deer or wild hogs? Does that ever happen?
I had a friend see one hunt down a fawn in SNP
I saw a black bear chasing a duck down the river in front of No Way Jose's in Gatlinburg about 5 or 6 years ago.
john gault
06-18-2008, 00:41
I saw a black bear chasing a duck down the river in front of No Way Jose's in Gatlinburg about 5 or 6 years ago.
How inhumane:sun
HippieHiker
06-18-2008, 02:27
ask bill bryson haha, thats a good one
From Stumpknocker's June 17 entry:
"The last time I saw Foxtrot, he had just gotten back from one of his walks in Alaska. He goes out for about 6 weeks and said he had about 5 days before he got out of the woods. He was walking along some young willow trees and a grizzly charged him. He fell back and the grizzly bit him in his calf, then ran back into the willow trees.
By that time, Foxtrot had enough time to get his bear spray out...and he needed it because the grizzly evidentially thought he tasted pretty good and charged again. This time the bear spray made the bear decide to leave. The part of the story I liked best was that when he when he did get out of the woods and in to see a doctor, the doctor told Foxtrot that he could probably fix his leg so it didn't show much of a scar from the teeth marks of the grizzly. Foxtrot said..."NO...I want the scar!"
tlbj6142
06-18-2008, 09:43
In my (limited) experience sows run away and leave their cubs to run up a tree and fend for themselves. The sows have come back, but sheepishly.
I am sure there are some tough mamas out there, but I have seen the opposite.Ditto. I have first hand experience with this. The mother screamed and took off as soon as she saw me leaving a very small cub behind. The cub "did the right thing" and ran up the nearest tree. He was cute. I could see the mom 100-150 yards off in the distance on a small rise pacing back and forth waiting for me to leave.
I have heard that black bear sows run, brown bear sows do not.
Back on subject, it is my understanding that black bears are more likely to think of us as prey than brown bears. Not sure why. Maybe it is "short guys syndrome"? The little guy likes to be more aggressive because he has to be to make up for his lack of real strength? Remember that not too long ago (10K-15K years) there was a 3rd type of bear (short faced bear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctodus_simus)) in NA that was bigger (7' at its shoulder!!!) than a brown bear. Not sure I'd do much hiking if those were still around. :eek:
Incahiker
06-18-2008, 10:33
Remember that not too long ago (10K-15K years) there was a 3rd type of bear (short faced bear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctodus_simus)) in NA that was bigger (7' at its shoulder!!!) than a brown bear. Not sure I'd do much hiking if those were still around. :eek:
Well, I have had a real life encounter with a kodiak bear, at the Atlanta zoo, lol. Anyhow, my point is they had a bear exhibit there one time, and I remember seeing the polar bear and thinking "Wow, thats a ginormous beast." Well then I walked to the Kodiak bear enclosure and thought "Wow, that kodiak bear would eat that polar bear for a snack."
Seriously, ya the polar bear may be taller, longer, but that damn kodiak bear was the most massive bear I have ever seen in my life. It was just HUGE, Massive, and had that monstrous lump of muscle on its back.
dessertrat
06-18-2008, 10:36
Yeah, they're more than just overgrown raccoons. A lot of black bear attacks happen in the spring before food sources become abundant. A lot of the fatal attacks are by rogue males as well, not just females defending their cubs. Sows will defend their cub(s) any time of year, but will often break off an attack once they've satified the protection instinct and return to their cub(s). A male bear that does attack is likely out to kill and eat you, period.
You said it well. Black Bear attacks of the predatory sort are most often committed in areas where there is no hunting, or in areas so remote that an adult bear might have never seen a human before, and has to decide whether the human is food or not upon encountering.
Allowing bear hunting for limited purposes and periods, even in National Parks, would be better for both people and bears.
NorthCountryWoods
06-18-2008, 11:46
Back on subject, it is my understanding that black bears are more likely to think of us as prey than brown bears. Not sure why. Maybe it is "short guys syndrome"? The little guy likes to be more aggressive because he has to be to make up for his lack of real strength? Remember that not too long ago (10K-15K years) there was a 3rd type of bear (short faced bear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctodus_simus)) in NA that was bigger (7' at its shoulder!!!) than a brown bear. Not sure I'd do much hiking if those were still around. :eek:
Canadian black bears are just as big if not bigger than the grizzlies in the western lower 48. The coastal salmon fed browns in AK and Canada are another story.
Have had many bear encounters in the US (most in AK) and Canada and the only aggressive bear (besides a polar bear swimming after our sailboat) was a northern Quebec black bear. He was bigger than any grizz I've ever seen and was not scared of our group of 8 at all. He started showing predatory behavior (slow quiet stalking, circling to try and cut off the rear group, closing distances) until our arrival at the put in. He even followed the shore along the river as we paddled for a short time.
It was morning and we paddled a long day to put some miles between us and him.
john gault
06-18-2008, 11:51
Canadian black bears are just as big if not bigger than the grizzlies in the western lower 48. The coastal salmon fed browns in AK and Canada are another story.
Have had many bear encounters in the US (most in AK) and Canada and the only aggressive bear (besides a polar bear swimming after our sailboat) was a northern Quebec black bear. He was bigger than any grizz I've ever seen and was not scared of our group of 8 at all. He started showing predatory behavior (slow quiet stalking, circling to try and cut off the rear group, closing distances) until our arrival at the put in. He even followed the shore along the river as we paddled for a short time.
It was morning and we paddled a long day to put some miles between us and him.
I've heard a lot about the aggressive black bears of Canada. I wonder if it's because of the cold winters, causing them to need more meat/fat energy for the long cold winters?
NorthCountryWoods
06-18-2008, 11:58
I've heard a lot about the aggressive black bears of Canada. I wonder if it's because of the cold winters, causing them to need more meat/fat energy for the long cold winters?
Don't know why, but most just seem more indifferent to humans.
Maybe cuz Canadians are so damn polite?
I can't get the link to work, but it's a great point, I bet the numbers of people killed by dogs dwarf the bear numbers.
Good, there are too many people around here anyway.....dogs(wolfs and such) were here first and they want us to know that:p
Since records started being kept around 1939, about 50% more fatal attacks on humans in Alaska have been committed by dogs than by bears. This is in a state with gumploads of both black and brown bears.
I'm willing to bet also there were more people killed by people and I bet these were on records kept before 1939. Anyone wanna put mony on it?
minnesotasmith
06-18-2008, 14:35
I'm willing to bet also there were more people killed by people and I bet these were on records kept before 1939. Anyone wanna put mony on it?
Crooks (murderers, like thieves) seem to mostly be unwilling to go to the effort of hiking. Makes sense in a way; if someone is too lazy to work at an honest job for what they want, it'd be reasonable to figure they'd be too lazy to hike with a pack deep into the woods to screw with LD hikers. After all, most of the pack theft, harassment of hikers, etc., does usually take place at road crossings, in towns, at road-served festivals like Trail Days, etc. In contrast, how many assaults or pack thefts have ever taken place on Mts. Moosilauke or Katahdin?
There are no fatal bear attacks on the historical record in New Brunswick, even though we have plenty of Black Bears. I am not entirely sure why this is so. We have enough bears, like 1 every 2 square miles, that I know they smell or hear or see me even if I never see them. Still, I am naturally nervous when hiking with my daughter because she seems just the right size. I mean, if they eat small moose... So I study what I can on the subject, and go from there.
dharmabum
07-13-2008, 04:52
Most don't get that big. 400 is usually considered a big bear. Usually they're more in the 250 to 350 range. They'll go after fawns and injured animals like deer and moose. Mostly they just scavenge though. But here's a youtube of a black bear taking a young moose. http://youtube.com/watch?v=-JVkaMqD5mI&feature=related So it does happen.
That is wild. i mean, that was really sad to see that baby moose taken away. kind of scary. what do you do if a bear attacks u? black bears dont climb trees do they? and how do you avoid being attacked by a mother bear if she sees you? just bear spray? is that my only defense?
take-a-knee
07-13-2008, 07:19
That is wild. i mean, that was really sad to see that baby moose taken away. kind of scary. what do you do if a bear attacks u? black bears dont climb trees do they? and how do you avoid being attacked by a mother bear if she sees you? just bear spray? is that my only defense?
Yes, black bears are capable tree climbers, and your best defense is hot lead.
Blue Jay
07-13-2008, 09:49
Indian attacks
Stage coach wrecks
Suicide
All of these issues are far more important to fear on the AT than bears. In addition I would add dingos, rhinoceros and man eating plants. Seriously, I know you NEED something to fear, but it's just not bears, I'm sorry.
Blue Jay
07-13-2008, 09:54
Odd how that goes. When an animal capable of killing and eating you... decides not to.
Happens to you hundreds of times a day. The animal, which also is millions of times more likely than a bear, to do so, the human. Again, if you just have to be afraid, and I know you do, stay away from them.
Blue Jay
07-13-2008, 09:55
Yes, black bears are capable tree climbers, and your best defense is hot lead.
No your best defense is to stand there or walk away or read the newspaper.
4eyedbuzzard
07-13-2008, 11:48
That is wild. i mean, that was really sad to see that baby moose taken away. kind of scary. what do you do if a bear attacks u? black bears dont climb trees do they? and how do you avoid being attacked by a mother bear if she sees you? just bear spray? is that my only defense?
Research it on the internet. Lots of info out there from bear experts on how to behave in the event of a bear confrontation. 99% of the time the bear simply runs off.
But don't believe for a minute that bears aren't dangerous. They are the apex predator in the woods, not you. Even if armed with spray or a firearm your best defense is to avoid turning the confrontation into an attack, because if a close distance attack occurs you'll have very little time to use either spray or a firearm, and hitting a target given the nature of an attack(PANIC!) isn't going to be easy.
That is wild. i mean, that was really sad to see that baby moose taken away. kind of scary. what do you do if a bear attacks u? black bears dont climb trees do they? and how do you avoid being attacked by a mother bear if she sees you? just bear spray? is that my only defense?There is another thread, but no, bear spray is not your only defence, and by itself it is neither neccessary nor sufficient. It might be a good part of a system, but you have to educate yourself first.
For Black Bears, I suggest reading this...
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/Bearwise/index.html
and in particular, these...
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/197046.pdf
If you can find something similar, but more local to your region, that would be
even better. Ontario has serious Black Bear issues though, so it's a good start.
From there I would research the bear demographics and bear behaviour specific to the area you are hiking in. Bear demographics and bear behaviour are effected, positively and negatively, by such things as hunting, camping, forestry, development, climate, vegetation, large prey, domestic and feral dogs, and competition from other predators such as wolves and coyotes, and other black bears. Here is a good start for learning about Black Bears in Maine.
http://www.state.me.us/ifw/wildlife/species/bear/index.htm
Get to know your bears. Just don't let them get to know you.
NICKTHEGREEK
07-13-2008, 12:46
From Stumpknocker's June 17 entry:
"The last time I saw Foxtrot, he had just gotten back from one of his walks in Alaska. He goes out for about 6 weeks and said he had about 5 days before he got out of the woods. He was walking along some young willow trees and a grizzly charged him. He fell back and the grizzly bit him in his calf, then ran back into the willow trees.
By that time, Foxtrot had enough time to get his bear spray out...and he needed it because the grizzly evidentially thought he tasted pretty good and charged again. This time the bear spray made the bear decide to leave. The part of the story I liked best was that when he when he did get out of the woods and in to see a doctor, the doctor told Foxtrot that he could probably fix his leg so it didn't show much of a scar from the teeth marks of the grizzly. Foxtrot said..."NO...I want the scar!"
Pretty interesting that he didn't have some pretty severe infection issues after 5 days. Bears rarely brush after meals and like many carnivores or carrion eaters the bacteria in thier mouths are a real danger.
not sure if this is posted in this thread but in case people missed it
http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=5288312&page=1
should i not feel more secure about bear encounters after watching this story...kind made me rest a little easier
That is a cool story. I would keep the scar also. :)
Also interesting about infections.
I would presume that the doctor did give him some treatment against infections.
We carry alot of nasty bugs on our skin also. I've notices I have to be more careful then when I was young. When I was younger I thought all this business of cleaning wounds and not picking scabs and stuff was a joke. Now I have to take it more seriously. I think it has mostly to do with aging. Bugs have gotten nastier also.
john gault
07-13-2008, 13:05
That is a cool story. I would keep the scar also. :)
...
I would think any guy that doesn't get facials would want to keep the scar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXqqynfqE_0
not sure if this is posted in this thread but in case people missed it
http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=5288312&page=1
should i not feel more secure about bear encounters after watching this story...kind made me rest a little easierI saw that.
That was my overall impression also.
It was an artificial 'fairy land', but I think it does provide some balance against the 'scarey land' portrayed by various commercial interests, such as outfitters and bear spray vendors and gun enthusiasts. I think the most objective source of information is obtained educational and research resources, such as that which I posted above.
I thought it was interesting that Ontario recommends carrying a long handled axe in the back country. It's all those axe crazed softwood lumber lobbiests. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zey8567bcg
I see the axe lobbiest are now spreading out of control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiVOG199X2c&feature=related
take-a-knee
07-13-2008, 15:58
No your best defense is to stand there or walk away or read the newspaper.
this guy had it together though, he got to read about himself in the paper:
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=14970
Lone Wolf
07-13-2008, 15:59
this guy had it together though, he got to read about himself in the paper:
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=14970
no name calling
take-a-knee
07-13-2008, 16:01
No your best defense is to stand there or walk away or read the newspaper.
:
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=14970
With all due respect, Blue Jay is spot on. Count yourself lucky to see a bear on the AT. Experience teaches the agenda-less hiker that a firearm or bear spray is not needed on the AT for protection from bears. The ATC concurs.
Odd Thomas
07-13-2008, 16:08
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=14970
Real men engage in melee combat. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_VlVckrUgY
Lone Wolf
07-13-2008, 16:09
With all due respect, Blue Jay is spot on. Count yourself lucky to see a bear on the AT. Experience teaches the agenda-less hiker that a firearm or bear spray is not needed on the AT for protection from bears. The ATC concurs.
i agree. protection from humans is another matter
I wouldn't get too upset about such things. Blue Jay was likely being somewhat rhetorical. I think the main point he was making was to try and remain calm and rational,
which is always sound advice, whether armed, or otherwise.
Personally, I think people should learning and caring about bears
before learning and learning and caring so much about weapons.
Why not do both, but reasonably?
4eyedbuzzard
07-13-2008, 16:12
I wouldn't get too upset about such things. Blue Jay was likely being somewhat rhetorical. I think the main point he was making was to try and remain calm and rational,
which is always sound advice, whether armed, or otherwise.
Personally, I think people should learning and caring about bears
before learning and learning and caring so much about weapons.
Why not do both, but reasonably?
Way too rational.:rolleyes::D
Let me try that again.
I think people should show more interest in and learn more about bears
before learning caring so much about weapons.
But why not do both, but do it reasonably?
Way too rational.:rolleyes::D
Sorry about that. I forgot this was the WILDLIFE Forum. :D
wilconow
07-16-2008, 19:01
Here's an article about Black Bears in an Anchorage Newspaper
Aggressive black bears deserve to be eliminated (http://www.adn.com/outdoors/story/463256.html)
Make note of that last sentence. As has been observed elsewhere, bear spray will repel some of the bears all of the time, and all of the bears some of the time. But it won't repel all of the bears all of the time, which it is probably why it was a good thing the Park Service botanists had a gun.
Makes me think of a Dylan song!
Blue Jay
07-16-2008, 22:41
But don't believe for a minute that bears aren't dangerous. They are the apex predator in the woods, not you. Even if armed with spray or a firearm your best defense is to avoid turning the confrontation into an attack, because if a close distance attack occurs you'll have very little time to use either spray or a firearm, and hitting a target given the nature of an attack(PANIC!) isn't going to be easy.
Yawn...Seriously you need to stay hiding under your bed. The woods are much too scary for you.:eek:
Well I've opted for just a big stick and a small hatchet. More than last year.
We leave tomorrow night.
At least this year my wife will pick us up at the other end and drive us home so I won't be stupid enough to fall asleep at the wheel or hit a moose like I almost did last year. That's the real danger. Driving while stupid.
tight-wad
07-16-2008, 23:38
I saw in the Academy Sports checkout line a device that emits a focused, high pitched, loud sound. It was by the bear spray.
Would this be effective to deter bears? Seems to me it would be easier to "aim", i.e. you would not have to hit 'em in the eyes.
take-a-knee
07-17-2008, 00:56
Here's an article about Black Bears in an Anchorage Newspaper
Aggressive black bears deserve to be eliminated (http://www.adn.com/outdoors/story/463256.html)
Make note of that last sentence. As has been observed elsewhere, bear spray will repel some of the bears all of the time, and all of the bears some of the time. But it won't repel all of the bears all of the time, which it is probably why it was a good thing the Park Service botanists had a gun.
Makes me think of a Dylan song!
What is really a bite in the ass is you or I can't carry a 12 guage shotgun in Denali but the bureaucrats can, the government never obeys it own rules, rules are for the other people.
Two Speed
07-17-2008, 07:58
What is really a bite in the ass is you or I can't carry a 12 guage shotgun in Denali but the bureaucrats can, the government never obeys it own rules, rules are for the other people.From the article: "In accordance with policy set forth in the park's Bear-Human Conflict Management Plan, one of the researchers made the decision to shoot the bear when it charged within 20 feet of the team and posed immediate hazard to human safety. The employee, who was qualified and authorized by the National Park Service to carry and use firearms in the park, hit the bear in its mid-section with a 12-gauge shotgun slug," McLaughlin wrote in a press release."
minnesotasmith
07-17-2008, 09:02
I saw in the Academy Sports checkout line a device that emits a focused, high pitched, loud sound. It was by the bear spray.
Would this be effective to deter bears? Seems to me it would be easier to "aim", i.e. you would not have to hit 'em in the eyes.
At least not one that you'd really need the help for.
My reasoning is given by something I read once about grizzlies in Alaska. Someone found a dead bear by a large yellow jacket nest in the ground. Now, you have to understand that bears are reputed to love yellow jacket larvae. This bear had attacked a YJ nest and had such a high pain tolerance that it had been able to ignore thousands of YJ stings and continue with digging up the YJ nest instead of fleeing (up until the point the accumulated poisons of all those stings killed it).
Do you really think that a moderately irritating noise is going to deter a bear whose "blood is up", when thousands of yellow jacket stings didn't repel one that was merely hungry? Me either...
Well then, I guess I will go ahead and get my bear spray then....
Go figure, these are animals that can weigh up to 700 lbs, they can swat at you and crush your skull in a single blow, or bite down into you and cause sever bleeding. Don't think we would really stand a chance if one decided you were dinner.
But how often do black bears actually hunt deer or wild hogs? Does that ever happen?
Show me 1 400 lb FOUND on the AT ON CHART?They are KID'S to the west and A.K.
At least not one that you'd really need the help for.
My reasoning is given by something I read once about grizzlies in Alaska. Someone found a dead bear by a large yellow jacket nest in the ground. Now, you have to understand that bears are reputed to love yellow jacket larvae. This bear had attacked a YJ nest and had such a high pain tolerance that it had been able to ignore thousands of YJ stings and continue with digging up the YJ nest instead of fleeing (up until the point the accumulated poisons of all those stings killed it).
Do you really think that a moderately irritating noise is going to deter a bear whose "blood is up", when thousands of yellow jacket stings didn't repel one that was merely hungry? Me either...
C'mon. Thousands of yellow jackets stings are a minor irritant compared to a sound wavelength "tuned in" to a pitch that disturbs an animal. Imagine if you were to have such a sound piercing your brain. It would be instantly debilitative.
I can't vouch for the quality or science behind any particular bear repellant but the concept is correct and would certainly offer more protection than bear spray.
Ashepabst
07-19-2008, 01:08
Show me 1 400 lb FOUND on the AT ON CHART?They are KID'S to the west and A.K.
there's nothing to suggest that black bears in the west are bigger than those in the east, is there? sure... there's more out west. i'm no expert here, but...? someone step in.
certainly large, 400lb+ bears are found in the east. just a quick google tells me about an 880lb bear in N.C.; a 615lb bear was taken in maryland last year; a 700lb+ bear in PA shot in '06; a 626lb bear shot in NY last year.
there's nothing to suggest that black bears in the west are bigger than those in the east, is there? sure... there's more out west. i'm no expert here, but...? someone step in.
certainly large, 400lb+ bears are found in the east. just a quick google tells me about an 880lb bear in N.C.; a 615lb bear was taken in maryland last year; a 700lb+ bear in PA shot in '06; a 626lb bear shot in NY last year.
Any on the A.T.?
Any on the A.T.?NC, Maryland, NY and PA are in a close enough range. I'd say that if black bears that large are being found in the Eastern US then there is a good possibility that they would be in areas that the AT passes through. On the AT? Well, no, the examples cited were not "on the AT".
Here's an article about Black Bears in an Anchorage Newspaper
Aggressive black bears deserve to be eliminated (http://www.adn.com/outdoors/story/463256.html)
Make note of that last sentence. As has been observed elsewhere, bear spray will repel some of the bears all of the time, and all of the bears some of the time. But it won't repel all of the bears all of the time, which it is probably why it was a good thing the Park Service botanists had a gun.
Makes me think of a Dylan song!
That would be Dylan's "Talking WWIII Blues".
the line you are thinking of is immediately followed by my favorite, "I'll let you be in my dream, if I can be in yours."
/end Dylan threadjack
Ashepabst
07-22-2008, 15:31
Any on the A.T.?
the obvious has already been pointed out: these are all AT states, yes.
are you suggesting that there's a subspecies of Mini-Blackies that confine themselves to the Appalachian Trail?
are you suggesting that there's a subspecies of Mini-Blackies that confine themselves to the Appalachian Trail?
Purist bears stay near the white blazes.:D
Blue Jay
07-22-2008, 20:09
Purist bears stay near the white blazes.:D
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (actually we should not laugh, both purists:banana and bears are very very scarey, you should not mix them).
NC, Maryland, NY and PA are in a close enough range. I'd say that if black bears that large are being found in the Eastern US then there is a good possibility that they would be in areas that the AT passes through. On the AT? Well, no, the examples cited were not "on the AT".
ED... well no is what i asked.:)
the obvious has already been pointed out: these are all AT states, yes.
are you suggesting that there's a subspecies of Mini-Blackies that confine themselves to the Appalachian Trail?
Show me 1 pic of a 400 lb taken on the AT?
le loupe
07-22-2008, 21:54
When you say "taken" do you mean via hunting and weighed in at 400 lbs?
while i'm no expert, these two look like they could be in the 300-400lb range
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17303&c=548
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17265&c=548
Hikerhead
07-23-2008, 00:04
When you say "taken" do you mean via hunting and weighed in at 400 lbs?
while i'm no expert, these two look like they could be in the 300-400lb range
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17303&c=548
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17265&c=548
Ha, those two shots were of the same bear. Cookerhikers picture shows what looks to be a sore on her backend...must have been in a fight.
We had walked maybe 10 feet from the car starting our hike when we saw her and the cubs.
I can't guess the weight of a bear.
le loupe
07-23-2008, 00:07
probably lighter than 400, maybe closer to 300.
but i don't understand why the AT wouldn't have 400lb and upward bears.
I guess everything is bigger & better in the west...
Hikerhead
07-23-2008, 00:11
I've always thought that SNP would have some 500lbs in there. All they do is eat and watch us hikers walk by. Never hunted. Just eat and eat and live to an old age.
There was a bear shot in either Rappahannak or Culpeper Co next to SNP last year that weighed over 700 lbs if my memory serves me right. I tried searching for it but couldn't come up with anything.
Ashepabst
07-23-2008, 14:29
Show me 1 pic of a 400 lb taken on the AT?
i've done some more research... they just don't exist. apparently, once AT bears hit the 400-pound mark, they retire and move out west or to alaska. and when the AT is relocated in sections, all the 400+ bears move elsewhere to accommodate. there's just something about that narrow, 2100-mile corridor through prime bear country (half of which is protected from hunters) ... they wont touch it. i'm being told that biologists are baffled.
:-?
A ranger in Glacier said the average grizzly in that park is 300 lbs, which is the same weight as a full-grown mountain goat.
I was surprised. That bit of information leads me to conclude that, while there are occasional huge individuals, most of the bears are not all that big.
A ranger in Glacier said the average grizzly in that park is 300 lbs, which is the same weight as a full-grown mountain goat.
Hard to believe. Sad to say but rangers don't always have up to date info.
Size of average adult
weight: male = 300 - 860 pounds; female = 205 - 455 pounds
http://www.scz.org/animals/b/grizzly.html
dessertrat
07-23-2008, 17:47
Bears do not know if they are on the Appalachian Trail or some other trail.
Bears do not know if they are on the Appalachian Trail or some other trail.
Grizzly probably would. ;)
Blue Jay
07-23-2008, 19:43
Bears do not know if they are on the Appalachian Trail or some other trail.
Most have maps and the young ones have GPS. They don't just steal food you know.
Please,show me 1 pic from all members ,old or new of a 400lb on the A.T.? SIMPLE.
Ashepabst
07-24-2008, 21:23
When you say "taken" do you mean via hunting and weighed in at 400 lbs?
while i'm no expert, these two look like they could be in the 300-400lb range
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17303&c=548
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17265&c=548
oooo... check out this big nama jama...
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17964
..posted by john gault
unfortunately john couldn't get him to pose on the scales for us. but slow's rule of AT Black Bear size limits says it def' can't be over 400lbs. maybe right at 400, but that's it.
oooo... check out this big nama jama...
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17964
..posted by john gault
unfortunately john couldn't get him to pose on the scales for us. but slow's rule of AT Black Bear size limits says it def' can't be over 400lbs. maybe right at 400, but that's it.
Just seeking FACTS.
i've done some more research... they just don't exist. apparently, once AT bears hit the 400-pound mark, they retire and move out west or to alaska. and when the AT is relocated in sections, all the 400+ bears move elsewhere to accommodate. there's just something about that narrow, 2100-mile corridor through prime bear country (half of which is protected from hunters) ... they wont touch it. i'm being told that biologists are baffled.
:-?
Did the research show,can hog's...off the A.T. HAVE A FEW MORE #'S.:-?
Ashepabst
07-25-2008, 11:42
Just seeking FACTS.
sorry for all the sarcasm, but i did offer some facts in the first place. your original comment was that black bears "on the AT" "are KID'S to the west and A.K." there are plenty of examples of large bears found in and around the Appalachian Mountains. while i realize that 400lb+ black bears are rare, there isn't any reason to suggest that appalachian black bears are inherently smaller than their western U.S. counterparts (except perhaps that they get more exercise 'cause there are more people to run away from:D). as for your insistence that bears within eyeshot of the AT can't also be larger than average ... you need to explain your logic here because it doesn't make sense.
a bear's size depends on its diet, the season, age and sex ... period. it doesn't depend on its east-west orientation (or its proximity to some hiking trail).
ugh! why am i still talking about this!?
indentifying bear scat. Likely not new to all, but funny nonetheless.
:sun
Blue Jay
07-25-2008, 16:34
a bear's size depends on its diet, the season, age and sex ... period. it doesn't depend on its east-west orientation (or its proximity to some hiking trail).
ugh! why am i still talking about this!?
Why because bear phobia is very popular. Actually proximity to the trail vastly increases the size of bears. A bear cub walks to within sight of the trail expands in minutes to 800 pounds of fury.:eek:
sorry for all the sarcasm, but i did offer some facts in the first place. your original comment was that black bears "on the AT" "are KID'S to the west and A.K." there are plenty of examples of large bears found in and around the Appalachian Mountains. while i realize that 400lb+ black bears are rare, there isn't any reason to suggest that appalachian black bears are inherently smaller than their western U.S. counterparts (except perhaps that they get more exercise 'cause there are more people to run away from:D). as for your insistence that bears within eyeshot of the AT can't also be larger than average ... you need to explain your logic here because it doesn't make sense.
a bear's size depends on its diet, the season, age and sex ... period. it doesn't depend on its east-west orientation (or its proximity to some hiking trail).
ugh! why am i still talking about this!?
WELL,come up with a 400lb on the A.T.
Out west more fish to be had....to even get to 400lb and standing at 5ft.
WELL,come up with a 400lb on the A.T.
Out west more fish to be had....to even get to 400lb and standing at 5ft.They are there. Show me a camera that gives the subject's weight.:rolleyes: Just go ahead and say that 400lb black bears do not exist on the AT. That's what you are insinuating.
WELL,come up with a 400lb on the A.T.
Out west more fish to be had....to even get to 400lb and standing at 5ft.
World record Black Bear was killed in coastal NC, weighed 880 ponds.
Lots of bears over 500 pounds have been killed in western NC.
The AT goes thru western NC.
So, sure big bears have crossed or used parts of the AT.
They are there. Show me a camera that gives the subject's weight.:rolleyes: Just go ahead and say that 400lb black bears do not exist on the AT. That's what you are insinuating.
Right on time ED.:D
The point is a 200lb...people think is 400lb.and no stats on the A.T.
Would YOU say this is true overall?
Right on time ED.:D
The point is a 200lb...people think is 400lb.and no stats on the A.T.
Would YOU say this is true overall?You been weighin' them suckers?:sun
I will say that you are right on with the lbs. estimations. Folks will ALWAYS claim the bear weighed more than it did. It's like a fish story. Same out west though.
NO,But i had what i think was a 25lb BASS on...till he took me in the weeds.:D
NO,But i had what i think was a 25lb BASS on...till he took me in the weeds.:DGood one!:sun
trouthunter
07-28-2008, 21:18
I have been told that big blacks can be found denned up in abandoned coal mine shafts, come out at night, and are very elusive.
Not sure that it's true, but the guy had lived in the area for 40 yrs. and seemed honest and down to earth.
He also told me some other stuff about fishing spots that proved to be true.
trouthunter
07-28-2008, 21:22
I once caught a brown so big it would not fit in the cooler, we had to pour the ice down it's throat.
No wonder the bears get so big! :-?
Good one!:sun
Your a Good man.
When can i cook you a steak in FL?:)
dessertrat
07-29-2008, 19:19
Why because bear phobia is very popular. Actually proximity to the trail vastly increases the size of bears. A bear cub walks to within sight of the trail expands in minutes to 800 pounds of fury.:eek:
A teenage girl in Maryland shot a black bear of around 600 lbs in Maryland last year. It was not that far from the AT.
cool breeze
09-06-2008, 00:18
ok...here' s the thing about bears.....PUT YOUR FOOD IN A TREE AND ANYTHING THAT HAS A SMELL!! We have hiked all kinds of places and...it is true....what the experts/rangers say....bears are "food habituated" by us...they learn to come to tents,camp sites, etc.... by what we do.
I was shocked to learn that hikers on blood mountain this summer..2008..were so lazy as to place food on a tree limb instead of taking the time to put it in a bag and hang it in a tree....guess what.....black bear were seen at Blood Mountain....one tore into a tent...its us that causes this behavior.
IN Glacier National Park..Montanal...the slogan is ...THINK OF THE NEXT HIKER!. Our habits effect those who hike behind us.
Anything that has a smell?
We can't go around and hang all the thru-hikers!
wilconow
09-07-2008, 11:29
A teenage girl in Maryland shot a black bear of around 600 lbs in Maryland last year. It was not that far from the AT.
If you consider 2.5 hours "not that far"... ok.. It was in Garrett Co
Hikerhead
01-03-2009, 20:25
Show me 1 pic of a 400 lb taken on the AT?
I stopped to eat today in Elkton (first town east of SNP on rt 33) and grabbed the local paper. Someone killed a bear that field dressed at 418lbs in one of the bordering counties of SNP. That would have been a 500lb bear. They had a picture of it laying in the truck (not a very good pic).
Hikerhead
01-03-2009, 20:26
I stopped to eat today in Elkton (first town east of SNP on rt 33) and grabbed the local paper. Someone killed a bear that field dressed at 418lbs in one of the bordering counties of SNP. That would have been a 500lb bear. They had a picture of it laying in the truck (not a very good pic).
Make that WEST of SNP.
SC State record 594lb bruin. Record was broken twice that week during hunting season. 588-592 and then 594. Saw one with her cubs earlier this year crossing the Mtns to Sea trail near Shining Rock. She was fat and the cubs were healthy too! Thankfully I was about 200 yards away from her and she never once looked up, just kept high-tailin it up the slope of Chestnut Bald.
buckwheat
01-04-2009, 10:23
Well, we've killed enough species to discount that theory.
Extinction is part of the circle of life, and is an integral design consideration of the planetary ecosystem I created for you. It is not a bug. Please do not interfere with the natural order of things.
Sincerely,
God
Rockhound
01-04-2009, 11:54
as for the whole bear weight thing, I helped skin my first bear a couple years ago. It weighed 310lbs. I have seen bears larger than that before and since. In fact a blackbear was spotted near the trailhead by Standing Bear right before Christmas that easily weighed close to 400lbs. This whole bear weight debate going on is kind of pointless though. If it were me, I think I'd much rather get eaten by the 600lb bear and not the 200lb. I mean I'd just hate to think we were evenly matched and I lost.
take-a-knee
01-04-2009, 12:54
as for the whole bear weight thing, I helped skin my first bear a couple years ago. It weighed 310lbs. I have seen bears larger than that before and since. In fact a blackbear was spotted near the trailhead by Standing Bear right before Christmas that easily weighed close to 400lbs. This whole bear weight debate going on is kind of pointless though. If it were me, I think I'd much rather get eaten by the 600lb bear and not the 200lb. I mean I'd just hate to think we were evenly matched and I lost.
I've skinned out two bears, a 200# blackie and a 600# Alaskan brownie. If you think you are "evenly matched" with a 200# black bear, you are either incredibly stupid or an MMA certified bada$$ with an 800# deadlift. When you get the skin off of a bear, what is left doesn't look very cuddly, it looks like the Incredible Hulk. They don't attack and kill all sorts of folks because that is usually their nature not to do so, not because they can't do so with ease.
Rockhound
01-04-2009, 13:29
calm down there sassy pants. It was a joke. Sorry I dont use smiley faces or dancing bananas
Rockhound
01-04-2009, 13:34
In fact that was my whole point. a 200lb bear will kick your azz just as easily as a 600lb bear so why are people even having the great bear weight debate here?
john gault
01-04-2009, 13:38
I could kick his ass
take-a-knee
01-04-2009, 18:08
In fact that was my whole point. a 200lb bear will kick your azz just as easily as a 600lb bear so why are people even having the great bear weight debate here?
No offense intended, glad we agree. Once an eastern black bear gets to about 400# or so they don't get any bigger, just fatter. The drift of the thread was you only had to worry about the really big bears (and I falsely accused you of that), not the 200#'ers, nothing could be further from the truth. Having said that, the chance of being attacked and killed by AT bears is pretty slim, except in areas where hunting isn't allowed, even then it is still a fairly slim chance, two legged predators cause more mayhem. As many hear have posted, if you get to see a black bear on the AT, consider yourself fortunate.
buckwheat
01-05-2009, 09:35
How many bears have been killed by people vs. people killed by bears? And not just directly, but by habitat destruction?
Bears throughout history have killed and consumed far more humans than the other way around. We just got more efficient at it, over the years, than they did.
Survival of the fittest, see? It's a design feature of the ecosystem called Earth.
Rockhound
01-05-2009, 10:58
bear attack alert. a black bear approx. 125#-150#, a couple miles from Standing Bear Hostel destroyed Crutch's rainfly last night. Crutch escaped unharmed except for dented pride and soiled undies. lesson learned: when you realize you forgot to hang a jar of peanut butter with the rest of your food, get up and hang it. Dont leave it in your vestbule.
Tipi Walter
01-05-2009, 13:15
How many bears have been killed by people vs. people killed by bears? And not just directly, but by habitat destruction?
This is the number we should be concerned with. We have 330,000,000 humans in this country now, 450,000,000 projected by 2050. Habitat destruction about says it all.
People seem more fascinated with bear attacks than attacked bears.
It's all about the fear-based attitude we have towards nature. Actually, the leading cause of human mortality in this country caused by "animals" are caused by bee stings. The second are cars hitting deer.
I read on the Glacier National Park website that drowning while crossing rivers causes about eight times as many s as by bears in the Park.
Who writes about river crossings on Whiteblaze all the time? It always comes back to "bear", "bear attacks", and "what gun is the best." Boringly predictable.
Well, we've killed enough species to discount that theory. Jury is still out on whether or not we wipe ourselves out, as well.
Nature will wipe us out, regardless of how nice we are to all other living creatures, including ourselves.
This is an oft-heard response to habitat destruction and human chosen activity to disfigure the landscape and pollute the air and water. Why bother, do nothing, and continue business as usual. We're all gonna die anyway.
You said it well. Black Bear attacks of the predatory sort are most often committed in areas where there is no hunting, or in areas so remote that an bear might have never seen a human before, and has to decide whether the human is food or not upon encountering.
Allowing bear hunting for limited purposes and periods, even in National Parks, would be better for both people and bears.
Who says? Why not have 330,000,000 bears and 2,000,000 humans?
Yes, black bears are capable tree climbers, and your best defense is hot lead.
Griz expert Doug Peacock would disagree. He lived with the grizzlys for decades and strongly advised not carrying a personal weapon. Instead, he recommended learning their behavior and areas of foraging, their signs and nighttime sleeping nests.
Extinction is part of the circle of life, and is an integral design consideration of the planetary ecosystem I created for you. It is not a bug. Please do not interfere with the natural order of things.
Sincerely,
God
Would you also consider human extinction to be necessary? If extinction is part of the planetary ecosystem God created for "you"(humans), aren't we then also subject to extinction?
[quote=buckwheat;751354]Bears throughout history have killed and consumed far more humans than the other way around. We just got more efficient at it, over the years, than they did.
The current concensus is that humans are partly responsible for the extinction of many large mammals in North American, including the woolly mammoths, the California golden bear, the saber toothed tiger, and many others.
Rockhound
01-05-2009, 15:25
Doug Peacock? wasnt he the grizzly expert who....er.....well...got eaten by a grizzly? I think that might make his advice a little suspect.
Doug Peacock? wasnt he the grizzly expert who....er.....well...got eaten by a grizzly? I think that might make his advice a little suspect.
No. You're thinking of Timothy Treadwell.
Lone Wolf
01-05-2009, 15:29
peacock was a friend of ed abbey. peacock is hayduke in the monkeywrench gang
Rockhound
01-05-2009, 16:09
peacock was a friend of ed abbey. peacock is hayduke in the monkeywrench gang
Ed Abbey. Well if this thread hasnt already taken a left turn, it certainly will now. Earth First
take-a-knee
01-05-2009, 17:54
I knew all the WB/Gia/hands-across-the-water set would want to hear about the last bullet launcher I've acquired, a limited-edition Marlin "Trapper" stainless steel Guide Gun (16in barrel) in 45/70. It'll wear XS ghost ring sights and a Ching sling. This is a proper Alaskan "fishing rifle".
buckwheat
01-05-2009, 18:08
The current concensus is that humans are partly responsible for the extinction of many large mammals in North American, including the woolly mammoths, the California golden bear, the saber toothed tiger, and many others.
That is not the current consensus.
The settled science is that animals which do not adapt to their surroundings eventually go extinct due to their predation by other animals who do adapt successfully, or through cataclysmic events such as supervolcano eruption or meteor strike. Millions of species have become extinct in this manner. It is part-and-parcel of the circle of life on Earth.
Why should the bears get a break?
Bears have chosen a survival strategy (avoidance) that is unlikely to be successful. They would not be the first animal to do so. Other animals, notably wolves, have chosen more successful strategies. Wolves chose the strategy of "cooperation," and find themselves man's best friend, often cared for better by their masters than even human offspring. Humans will be extinct long before the wolves because the wolves have chosen a successful strategy for survival.
That is the design of the ecosystem that we call Earth.
I knew all the WB/Gia/hands-across-the-water set would want to hear about the last bullet launcher I've acquired, a limited-edition Marlin "Trapper" stainless steel Guide Gun (16in barrel) in 45/70. It'll wear XS ghost ring sights and a Ching sling. This is a proper Alaskan "fishing rifle".
Give ya a boner? :p
take-a-knee
01-05-2009, 18:40
Give ya a boner? :p
Only a "swirly"...I'm gettin' old.
buckwheat
01-05-2009, 18:50
Would you also consider human extinction to be necessary? If extinction is part of the planetary ecosystem God created for "you" (humans), aren't we then also subject to extinction?
I wouldn't use the word "necessary." Or even inevitable. But I would say it is possible for humans to become extinct. Maybe even probable.
Humans, I would argue, are animals just like the bears in that we both share a common ecosystem (Earth) and we both have to develop strategies for survival in that system. Both our species are equally subject to the possibility of extinction. Just like millions of other species, many millions of which have gone extinct long before man was dominate on the planet.
What would it take for humans to become extinct? Not much, I'd argue. A cataclysmic event, combined with a strategy shift on the part of canines or other large carnivores away from "cooperation" and towards "predation" would probably be sufficient to cause our extinction.
So, I wouldn't say human extinction is "necessary" ... but I would say it is part of the design of this ecosystem.
Cheers,
Buckwheat
In the event of a giant meteor or comet strike, the only things even slightly likely to survive are the denizens of the deep (like the coelocanth, supposedly extinct until one was caught a few decades ago).
http://www.dinofish.com/
Hikerhead
01-05-2009, 18:59
This happened about a week ago near here not too far from the AT.
http://www.examiner.com/a-1764769~Va_hunter_attacked_by_bear.html?cid=rss-Virginia_Headlines
Hikerhead
01-05-2009, 19:03
Bear stats for virginia....check out the graph at the bottom of the page.
http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/wildlife/bear/harvestsummary.asp
This is the number we should be concerned with. We have 330,000,000 humans in this country now, 450,000,000 projected by 2050. Habitat destruction about says it all.
It's all about the fear-based attitude we have towards nature. Actually, the leading cause of human mortality in this country caused by "animals" are caused by bee stings. The second are cars hitting deer.
Who writes about river crossings on Whiteblaze all the time? It always comes back to "bear", "bear attacks", and "what gun is the best." Boringly predictable.
This is an oft-heard response to habitat destruction and human chosen activity to disfigure the landscape and pollute the air and water. Why bother, do nothing, and continue business as usual. We're all gonna die anyway.
Who says? Why not have 330,000,000 bears and 2,000,000 humans?
Griz expert Doug Peacock would disagree. He lived with the grizzlys for decades and strongly advised not carrying a personal weapon. Instead, he recommended learning their behavior and areas of foraging, their signs and nighttime sleeping nests.
Would you also consider human extinction to be necessary? If extinction is part of the planetary ecosystem God created for "you"(humans), aren't we then also subject to extinction?....
A very wise post, Tipi Walter. Just add human induced global Warming and it would have said it all. Well almost. In Maine, cars running into moose are a big killer. Unlike hitting deer, which we almost all do, hitting a thousand pound plus moose moose is a big -- and deadly -- deal!
Weary
buckwheat
01-05-2009, 19:05
In the event of a giant meteor or comet strike, the only things even slightly likely to survive are the denizens of the deep ...
Well, depending on how big your "giant metor or comet" is, I'd probably agree with you.
The most likely cataclysmic event which would precede the extinction of mankind however would be the next eruption of the Yellowstone supervolcano.
Hmmmmmmmm .... anybody notice that big bulge and all those recent earthquakes? (http://www.seis.utah.edu/req2webdir/recenteqs/Maps/Yellowstone_full.html)
Rockhound
01-05-2009, 19:15
Well, depending on how big your "giant metor or comet" is, I'd probably agree with you.
The most likely cataclysmic event which would precede the extinction of mankind however would be the next eruption of the Yellowstone supervolcano.
Hmmmmmmmm .... anybody notice that big bulge and all those recent earthquakes? (http://www.seis.utah.edu/req2webdir/recenteqs/Maps/Yellowstone_full.html)
must be armmegedon week on the discovery channel. I'm voting for the pandemic.
Rockhound
01-05-2009, 19:27
or a genetic mutation within the bear population that gives them opposable thumbs, which they will somehow use to convince the American public that bears shound be given the right to vote and evetually, after getting several bear members elected to congress, will amend the second amendment from "the right to bear arms" to "the right to arm bears". Then after stockpiling massive amounts of weapons the bears will rise up and, using their newly mutated opposable thubs to operate their weopons, will wipe out all of mankind. It will be a coordinated attack. Black bears and grizzlies in N. America. Koalas in Australia. Pandas in asia. Polar bears swooping in from the north. And bears, as ill tempered as we all know them to be, will have no mercy and will not stop until they achieve total world domination and the extinction of mankind. Or we could just get hit by a meteorite. who knows?
buckwheat
01-05-2009, 19:41
... the leading cause of human mortality in this country caused by "animals" are caused by bee stings. The second are cars hitting deer.
Incorrect.
The CDC keeps track of causes of death. The most recent data is for the year 2005.
The leading cause of human mortality (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/FASTATS/lcod.htm) in this country in 2005 caused by "animals" is suicide (1.3% of all deaths), followed by assault (.07% of all deaths).
This happened about a week ago near here not too far from the AT.
http://www.examiner.com/a-1764769~Va_hunter_attacked_by_bear.html?cid=rss-Virginia_Headlines
What more could a party of bear hunters ask for, but a bear who comes close and hangs around?
warraghiyagey
01-05-2009, 20:53
I just found this on wikipedia. I am sure many of you have seen it, but for many of you that haven't, here it is.
Seems like black bears have more fatal attacks more then grizzlys, which I didn't expect. It especially seems like the black bears in Canada are particularly aggressive.
I guess since there are more blacks then grizzly bears the numbers play them selves out, but I still didn't know there were so many black bear attacks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America_by_dec ade
How do I get on this list?
Hikerhead
01-05-2009, 21:09
How do I get on this list?
First you have to buy a bear suit. Then you have to go kill someone while wearing it. Lastly you have to make sure someone lives who can tell the story.
"That bear came in and killed my brother and then just jumped in the car and drove away"
Tipi Walter
01-05-2009, 21:29
That is not the current consensus.
The settled science is that animals which do not adapt to their surroundings eventually go extinct due to their predation by other animals who do adapt successfully, or through cataclysmic events such as supervolcano eruption or meteor strike. Millions of species have become extinct in this manner. It is part-and-parcel of the circle of life on Earth.
Why should the bears get a break?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/06/010608081621.htm
The usual concensus is human predation for the big North American animals. Even better would be your theory(and others)on a massive meteor strike as it leaves primitive paleo-indians "off the hook" for mammal extinctions, something that irks the large group of people who mock any notion that the "Indians" lived closer to the land or lived better with the environment. So, if the old stone age boys didn't wipe out a species, why are we?
The Chestnut blight was caused by ignorant human trade practices with no regard to guarantined plants. Would you call this normal planetary predation? Or human ignorance? Maybe both are the same.
I wouldn't use the word "necessary." Or even inevitable. But I would say it is possible for humans to become extinct. Maybe even probable.
Humans, I would argue, are animals just like the bears in that we both share a common ecosystem (Earth) and we both have to develop strategies for survival in that system.
Cheers,
Buckwheat
This is a very strong statement and one I agree with totally. Unfortunately, we are taught we are not animals or mammals and instead are constantly reminded of our exalted status, the Diety's chosen ones, the great gift to the universe, and so like King Ant we act accordingly. If it is true we and the bears share a common ecosystem, why then don't we act like it?
Landshark
01-05-2009, 21:41
In the event of a giant meteor or comet strike, the only things even slightly likely to survive are the denizens of the deep (like the coelocanth, supposedly extinct until one was caught a few decades ago).
http://www.dinofish.com/
And marshmallow peeps.
Show me a 400#lb on the A.T.And if so pic please?They are dumpster divers even @350#.:-?
take-a-knee
01-06-2009, 00:18
Show me a 400#lb on the A.T.And if so pic please?They are dumpster divers even @350#.:-?
Dude, subscribe to Georgia Outdoor News (GON), there are NUMEROUS #400 bears killed by hunters all over N. GA every fall, mostly by archers. Most anywhere in N. GA ain't too far from the AT. A friend of mine was hunting on Chestatee WMA several years ago when a guy killed a #400 bear in a food plot, that is about two miles south of Neel Gap, close enough? Okay, how did he know it weighed #400? Because GA DNR requires you to bring it in to be weighed at a checking station.
buckwheat
01-06-2009, 07:11
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/06/010608081621.htm
Interesting article. I think it's proof of a theory I have. Here's the two interesting paragraphs:
"Woolly mammoths, giant armadillos and three species of camels were among more than 30 mammals that were hunted to extinction by North American humans 13,000 to 12,000 years ago, according to the most realistic, sophisticated computer model to date.
John Alroy, a researcher with the National Center for Ecological Analysis and Synthesis (NCEAS) at the University of California, Santa Barbara, performed the modeling and is the single author of the paper. NCEAS houses the best ecosystem computer modeling capacity available, according to Alroy."
So, according to the sole author of the study, a computer model predicts that prehistoric humans hunted some animals to extinction. How does he know? His computer model predicts it. Who built his computer model? He did. Is it the best computer model available? Yes! According to the sole author of the study and the model!
This is what passes for science today ... one guy, with a computer, modeling his desired outcome, and then assuring us that his model is the best model available (take his word for it). This information is then cited as proof of a "consensus" in science.
This happened about a week ago near here not too far from the AT.
http://www.examiner.com/a-1764769~Va_hunter_attacked_by_bear.html?cid=rss-Virginia_Headlines
that's like pulling a shark out of the ocean and getting in the way of his jaws
must be armmegedon week on the discovery channel. I'm voting for the pandemic.
some dude in a saucer lands and says 'your planet?' will signal the beginning of the end of human domination.
Lone Wolf
01-06-2009, 08:03
that's like pulling a shark out of the ocean and getting in the way of his jaws
yeah, no ****. the bear was highly provoked and injured. duh! bears ain't a problem on the AT
Lone Wolf
01-06-2009, 08:04
Show me a 400#lb on the A.T.And if so pic please?They are dumpster divers even @350#.:-?
come to va., pa., vt., me. i'll show you some
Show me a 400#lb on the A.T.And if so pic please?They are dumpster divers even @350#.:-?
A 650 pounder was killed in the last 10 years near Unionville, NY. That's right off the trail. Some of the biggest bears near the trail can be found in NY & NJ.
Lone Wolf
01-06-2009, 08:07
fla. only has 100 pounders
PA has 800 pounders in the northeast part of the state!
http://gloucestercitynews.typepad.com/clearysnotebook/2008/11/a-season-of-pro.html
What more could a party of bear hunters ask for, but a bear who comes close and hangs around?Isn't that more or less how most black bear hunting is done?
Show me a 400#lb on the A.T.And if so pic please?They are dumpster divers even @350#.:-?Most of the big ones here are fairly docile supermoms, old female bears that often have 3 or more cubs every other year. Most of the males are shot before they get very large. Most Black Bear hunting in the east is like farming, plus some smoke and mirrors.
take-a-knee
01-06-2009, 10:00
Most of the big ones here are fairly docile supermoms, old female bears that often have 3 or more cubs every other year. Most of the males are shot before they get very large. Most Black Bear hunting in the east is like farming, plus some smoke and mirrors.
Well, it ain't like "farming" in GA, it is fair-chase, no baiting allowed. I'm not dissing Mainers or Canadians who hunt bear over bait, that's their business and their biologists have arrived at that method as a viable harvest method but I'll never do it. I've been told that hound hunting for bears is legal in east TN, it'll land you in jail in GA. That is how we wound up with no bears. For all you anti-hunters out there, GA's bear population is, according to GA DNR biologists, at the lands' carrying capacity of 1500 bears. If it gets to 2000 we'll start seeing some really hungry bears, and human-bear conflict will increase, usually to the bears' detriment.
They bait in AK and it always seem to come to trouble.
Well, it ain't like "farming" in GA, it is fair-chase, no baiting allowed. I'm not dissing Mainers or Canadians who hunt bear over bait, that's their business and their biologists have arrived at that method as a viable harvest method but I'll never do it. I've been told that hound hunting for bears is legal in east TN, it'll land you in jail in GA. That is how we wound up with no bears. For all you anti-hunters out there, GA's bear population is, according to GA DNR biologists, at the lands' carrying capacity of 1500 bears. If it gets to 2000 we'll start seeing some really hungry bears, and human-bear conflict will increase, usually to the bears' detriment.I would agree that it's complicated and should be determined on a state by state province by province basis, and based primarily on sound science and traditions rather than commercial and development and political interests. I am not totally against baiting, or even baits combined with traps, but I would rather see bears managed as a commercial fur trade rather than as a sport. As a commercial sport things get rather twisted, and that could lead to mismanagement. People should be willing to pay more for a bear rug, and less to shoot a bear attracted by donuts and held in a trap. Fair chase sounds interesting. I'm not sure if I can run that fast. ;)
Tipi Walter
01-06-2009, 10:40
Interesting article. I think it's proof of a theory I have. Here's the two interesting paragraphs:
"Woolly mammoths, giant armadillos and three species of camels were among more than 30 mammals that were hunted to extinction by North American humans 13,000 to 12,000 years ago, according to the most realistic, sophisticated computer model to date.
John Alroy, a researcher with the National Center for Ecological Analysis and Synthesis (NCEAS) at the University of California, Santa Barbara, performed the modeling and is the single author of the paper. NCEAS houses the best ecosystem computer modeling capacity available, according to Alroy."
So, according to the sole author of the study, a computer model predicts that prehistoric humans hunted some animals to extinction. How does he know? His computer model predicts it. Who built his computer model? He did. Is it the best computer model available? Yes! According to the sole author of the study and the model!
This is what passes for science today ... one guy, with a computer, modeling his desired outcome, and then assuring us that his model is the best model available (take his word for it). This information is then cited as proof of a "consensus" in science.
Hey, I'm on your side. I always hoped early North American people did not hunt some mammals to extinction to add credence to current American Indian voices that they lived in balance with their environment, etc. They did have a huge population of bison when the Europeans arrived.
I've been told that hound hunting for bears is legal in east TN, it'll land you in jail in GA. That is how we wound up with no bears. For all you anti-hunters out there, GA's bear population is, according to GA DNR biologists, at the lands' carrying capacity of 1500 bears. If it gets to 2000 we'll start seeing some really hungry bears, and human-bear conflict will increase, usually to the bears' detriment.
I've been out recently in east TN backpacking and get to see the wonderful bear hunters with their dozens of dogs and their "organized hunts" comprising 400 or more hunters all out in pick up trucks with their dogs. Some state agency condones large hunts and the use of hundreds of dogs roaming the woods. Some of the dog don't get back home and instead attach themselves to the first hiker they see, sleeping in camp, pulling food out of tents or off trees, clawing tent flys, and shivering all night in starvation mode.
Meanwhile, the hunters are sleeping in a warm bed and could give a hoot. The dogs eventually run a bear and corner it often up a tree and the glorious hunters in their proud southern hunting tradition fire away. Sometimes the bear is too remote and too big to haul out, a few pieces instead are hauled away.; Pieces I'm sure a thinking, feeling bear would much prefer to keep on his person so he can continue to sport thru the winter in his bear body.
To me the black bear is a last symbol of wilderness, like the bald eagle, and should be treated as such, left alone and never "culled". Your comment of the "land's carrying capacity of 1500 bears" sounds like typical humans-playing-God homo-rapiens xenophobia. We've become self-appointed king ant lords in the big mammal harvest, and call it the Science of Natural Resource Management. To me it's just another form of eugenics where a "superior race" eliminates the "undesiables" by selective culling for mammals not having a "warranted existence." What is the land's carrying capacity of human beings? No one asks this question cuz no one cares to know.
A 650 pounder was killed in the last 10 years near Unionville, NY. That's right off the trail. Some of the biggest bears near the trail can be found in NY & NJ.
they are in ct and ma now too.
Hey, I'm on your side. I always hoped early North American people did not hunt some mammals to extinction to add credence to current American Indian voices that they lived in balance with their environment, etc. They did have a huge population of bison when the Europeans arrived.
bison was replaced by far tastier bovine steaks
I've been out recently in east TN backpacking and get to see the wonderful bear hunters with their dozens of dogs and their "organized hunts" comprising 400 or more hunters all out in pick up trucks with their dogs. Some state agency condones large hunts and the use of hundreds of dogs roaming the woods. Some of the dog don't get back home and instead attach themselves to the first hiker they see, sleeping in camp, pulling food out of tents or off trees, clawing tent flys, and shivering all night in starvation mode.
Meanwhile, the hunters are sleeping in a warm bed and could give a hoot. The dogs eventually run a bear and corner it often up a tree and the glorious hunters in their proud southern hunting tradition fire away. Sometimes the bear is too remote and too big to haul out, a few pieces instead are hauled away.; Pieces I'm sure a thinking, feeling bear would much prefer to keep on his person so he can continue to sport thru the winter in his bear body.
between the dog chases, baiting, and shooting a standing target from several hundreds yards away, i fail to see the word sport in hunting these days.
To me the black bear is a last symbol of wilderness, like the bald eagle, and should be treated as such, left alone and never "culled". Your comment of the "land's carrying capacity of 1500 bears" sounds like typical humans-playing-God homo-rapiens xenophobia. We've become self-appointed king ant lords in the big mammal harvest, and call it the Science of Natural Resource Management. To me it's just another form of eugenics where a "superior race" eliminates the "undesiables" by selective culling for mammals not having a "warranted existence." What is the land's carrying capacity of human beings? No one asks this question cuz no one cares to know.
land capacity to carry bears is rated against there need to expand their territory and raid people's backyards.
land's natural people carrying capacity has been supplanted by modern farming techniques. now the earth's capacity is based on how long it will take us to burn through all natural resources or choke ourselves trying or an extinction event
Rockhound
01-07-2009, 09:53
Show me a 400#lb on the A.T.And if so pic please?They are dumpster divers even @350#.:-?
how many people have to tell you your wrong before you start believing it. The further north you go on the trail the larger the bears get. Why are you so insistent in your belief that there are no 400# or larger bears on the trail? Especially when youve been given lots of info to the contrary on this thread?
john gault
01-07-2009, 09:56
Well, he is slow
Rockhound
01-07-2009, 09:57
My advice to you is to camp at walnut Mt. shelter alone with your food in your tent. You will see a 400# bear if you stay there long enough.
sheepdog
01-07-2009, 10:07
[quote=Tipi Walter;
I've been out recently in east TN backpacking and get to see the wonderful bear hunters with their dozens of dogs and their "organized hunts" comprising 400 or more hunters all out in pick up trucks with their dogs. Some state agency condones large hunts and the use of hundreds of dogs roaming the woods. Some of the dog don't get back home and instead attach themselves to the first hiker they see, sleeping in camp, pulling food out of tents or off trees, clawing tent flys, and shivering all night in starvation mode.
[/quote]
400 hunters? I've told you a million times not to exagerate!!
Tipi Walter
01-07-2009, 11:42
400 hunters? I've told you a million times not to exagerate!!
This is no exaggeration. The forest service conducts annual bear and pig hunts for 5 to 7 days a year(or more)and are "organized" hunts in the sense that they are large hunts for a short period of time. Where I backpack in east TN(Monroe county)there are short designated dates for bear hunting:
Oct 8-9
Oct 20-21
Nov 12-15
Nov 29-Dec 12
http://www.twraregion4.org/TWRAHunting/TWRABearSeasons.htm
It was during these last dates(Nov 29-Dec 12)that I saw the most concentrated numbers of hunters in a relatively small area. The "harvested" bears from Monroe country alone this year were around 70 with a total east TN population of around 1000 to 1500. The total state cull was around 450 for 2008.
http://www.twraregion4.org/TWRAHunting/TWRABearManagement.htm
This webpage goes into detail about bear hunting in TN and has a lot of facts and figures.
sheepdog
01-07-2009, 13:09
I misunderstood you. I thought you ment all 400 hunting together in the same party. I have bear and bobcat hunted with hounds. It is no easy thing. Most folks think the dogs chase the bear up the tree and you drive your truck up to it, get out and then shoot the bear. No sweat. That may happen ocasionally but I have never seen it. I have spent days crawling through swamps trying to get in front of the bear or cat. It was brutal hard work. The hound people I know, love and care for their dogs. We have spent all night tracking down a dog that wont quit or gets lost.
We have also tracked down a couple bears that were problems to hikers. Usually the DNR will let you know where problem bears are. One was a bear that hung around a campground charging hikers and intimidating them out of their packs. Bears are a renewable resource like any other game animal. As long as the meat doesn't go to waste, I see no problem with hunting them.
Plodderman
01-07-2009, 13:21
Interesting
how many people have to tell you your wrong before you start believing it. The further north you go on the trail the larger the bears get. Why are you so insistent in your belief that there are no 400# or larger bears on the trail? Especially when youve been given lots of info to the contrary on this thread?
Fish look big to,till you pull them out of the water.:-?
Well, he is slow
It seem's,you are slow with fact's.:D
My advice to you is to camp at walnut Mt. shelter alone with your food in your tent. You will see a 400# bear if you stay there long enough.
Can i bring a full garbage can and leave it outside my tent,so i can be the first to take a pic of this great monster you talk about?
take-a-knee
01-07-2009, 23:50
bison was replaced by far tastier bovine steaks
between the dog chases, baiting, and shooting a standing target from several hundreds yards away, i fail to see the word sport in hunting these days.
land capacity to carry bears is rated against there need to expand their territory and raid people's backyards.
land's natural people carrying capacity has been supplanted by modern farming techniques. now the earth's capacity is based on how long it will take us to burn through all natural resources or choke ourselves trying or an extinction event
Two questions Tin Man, will you teach me to shoot like you? I'm a graduate of the premier sniper school on this planet yet I have a hard time hitting those, "standing targets, several hundred yards away"?
Also, since human habitation is encroaching on bear the population, why don't you sell whatever land/property you own or donate it to the Wilderness Society?
take-a-knee
01-07-2009, 23:53
Hey, I'm on your side. I always hoped early North American people did not hunt some mammals to extinction to add credence to current American Indian voices that they lived in balance with their environment, etc. They did have a huge population of bison when the Europeans arrived.
I've been out recently in east TN backpacking and get to see the wonderful bear hunters with their dozens of dogs and their "organized hunts" comprising 400 or more hunters all out in pick up trucks with their dogs. Some state agency condones large hunts and the use of hundreds of dogs roaming the woods. Some of the dog don't get back home and instead attach themselves to the first hiker they see, sleeping in camp, pulling food out of tents or off trees, clawing tent flys, and shivering all night in starvation mode.
Meanwhile, the hunters are sleeping in a warm bed and could give a hoot. The dogs eventually run a bear and corner it often up a tree and the glorious hunters in their proud southern hunting tradition fire away. Sometimes the bear is too remote and too big to haul out, a few pieces instead are hauled away.; Pieces I'm sure a thinking, feeling bear would much prefer to keep on his person so he can continue to sport thru the winter in his bear body.
To me the black bear is a last symbol of wilderness, like the bald eagle, and should be treated as such, left alone and never "culled". Your comment of the "land's carrying capacity of 1500 bears" sounds like typical humans-playing-God homo-rapiens xenophobia. We've become self-appointed king ant lords in the big mammal harvest, and call it the Science of Natural Resource Management. To me it's just another form of eugenics where a "superior race" eliminates the "undesiables" by selective culling for mammals not having a "warranted existence." What is the land's carrying capacity of human beings? No one asks this question cuz no one cares to know.
You skipped right into fruitcake territory with that post Tipi. Homo-rapiens huh.
Rockhound
01-07-2009, 23:56
Can i bring a full garbage can and leave it outside my tent,so i can be the first to take a pic of this great monster you talk about?
pack it in pack it out. By the way a 550# bear was caught in Del Rio (right near Hot Springs) Dec. 28th. Theres a picture in the local paper. How much more proof do you need?
pack it in pack it out. By the way a 550# bear was caught in Del Rio (right near Hot Springs) Dec. 28th. Theres a picture in the local paper. How much more proof do you need?
Again...right near the A.T.:-?
Rockhound
01-08-2009, 12:38
Again...right near the A.T.:-?
I know it must be hard to fathom such an amazing coinsidence. The AT runs through the black bears habitat and many bears happen to be killed/seen near the trail. OMG someone call Riplies. I thought for sure I'd be more likely to see black bears hanging out on Florida beaches. Slow, you have quite the apt name. I'd continue this battle of wits were having but I can see you are unarmed. Time to put the bear weight debate to rest.
Ashepabst
01-08-2009, 14:08
I know it must be hard to fathom such an amazing coinsidence. The AT runs through the black bears habitat and many bears happen to be killed/seen near the trail. OMG someone call Riplies. I thought for sure I'd be more likely to see black bears hanging out on Florida beaches. Slow, you have quite the apt name. I'd continue this battle of wits were having but I can see you are unarmed. Time to put the bear weight debate to rest.
I've been back and forth with Slow on this one -- it's like arguing with a tape recorder. I think he knows his logic is flawed (by which i mean ridiculous).
The way to tell the difference between a grizzly bear and a black bear is to climb a tree.
If the bear knocks the tree down and eats you, it's a grizzly bear.
If the bear climbs the tree and eats you, it's a black bear. :)
sheepdog
01-08-2009, 19:05
The way to tell the difference between a grizzly bear and a black bear is to climb a tree.
If the bear knocks the tree down and eats you, it's a grizzly bear.
If the bear climbs the tree and eats you, it's a black bear. :)
Now that's funny. Also Grizzly bear poop smells like peper spray and has little bells in it.
the Way To Tell The Difference Between A Grizzly Bear And A Black Bear Is To Climb A Tree.
If The Bear Knocks The Tree Down And Eats You, It's A Grizzly Bear.
If The Bear Climbs The Tree And Eats You, It's A Black Bear. :)
Not True.:)
I know it must be hard to fathom such an amazing coinsidence. The AT runs through the black bears habitat and many bears happen to be killed/seen near the trail. OMG someone call Riplies. I thought for sure I'd be more likely to see black bears hanging out on Florida beaches. Slow, you have quite the apt name. I'd continue this battle of wits were having but I can see you are unarmed. Time to put the bear weight debate to rest.
Show me a pic & wt... FACT of a 400....400....400 lb that was taken RIGHT ON THE A.T.:-?
john gault
01-08-2009, 20:26
Hey slow, you're right there are no 400 lb bears anywhere on the east coast -- now give it a rest.
Hey slow, you're right there are no 400 lb bears anywhere on the east coast -- now give it a rest.
Hey john,any fact's for slow yet.:D
john gault
01-08-2009, 21:02
Hey john,any fact's for slow yet.:D
I have not facts....why do you put an apostrophe on "fact's"?
I have not facts....why do you put an apostrophe on "fact's"?
Well maybe it's a nice walk in life.:-?
Ashepabst
01-09-2009, 13:40
Hey slow, you're right there are no 400 lb bears anywhere on the east coast -- now give it a rest.
No, no, no, John. Slow concedes that 400-lb bears exist on the east coast. His point -- it seems -- is that they all (all the big ones ;)) avoid the narrow corridor surrounding the AT.
Hey Slow: always wanted to know your reason here. Got one?
Chaplain
01-10-2009, 21:21
Last night a dog tried to bite me as I walked in my neighborhood. Tried to take a bite out of my ankle. I've seen bears, but never had one try to bite me.
BumpJumper
01-11-2009, 17:05
Yeah. Dogs bite, bears dont.
Slow, looks like you are making friends here....:D:D:D
A bear took me out last year this time in snp tore my tent... up a few holes in my sleeping bag that i was in.... pulled for a few feet...than it was over.....the atc has my report.....
A bear took me out last year this time in snp tore my tent... up a few holes in my sleeping bag that i was in.... pulled for a few feet...than it was over.....the atc has my report.....
Yikes. Did you have to change your sleeping bag? I think I would have.
cowboy nichols
01-11-2009, 17:25
I just want to know who's carrying the scales to weigh Dem dare bars ??
take-a-knee
01-11-2009, 18:34
I just want to know who's carrying the scales to weigh Dem dare bars ??
GA DNR at the checking station for the GA bears I referenced. All bears taken in Ga are required to be weighed by a game official. They do the same with road kill bears, of which there are several every year.
Yeah. Dogs bite, bears dont.
Slow, looks like you are making friends here....:D:D:D
Just a lite snack.:D
GA DNR at the checking station for the GA bears I referenced. All bears taken in Ga are required to be weighed by a game official. They do the same with road kill bears, of which there are several every year.
Is that the same on the A.T.,for them 400lb#?....if so please tell.
BumpJumper
01-11-2009, 20:55
:D:D:D:D:D:D
When are we going hiking?
:D:D:D:D:D:D
When are we going hiking?
Just set a date for all.:)
BTW, TEDDY is a good 350#FL bear.:D
:D:D:D:D:D:D
When are we going hiking?
I'm more scared of red ants.So if you got a place to walk with bears ,all for it.:D
BumpJumper
01-11-2009, 22:42
Teddy, the one in Juniper? That sorry ass ape looking scank bear broke my stainless steel grill. :mad::mad::mad::mad:
Ok, I will set a date. You name it.
tom_alan
01-11-2009, 23:00
Teddy, the one in Juniper? That sorry ass ape looking scank bear broke my stainless steel grill. :mad::mad::mad::mad:
Ok, I will set a date. You name it.
ROLMBO - I got to clean my monitor now! Good thing it was just water.
BumpJumper
01-11-2009, 23:03
Yeah, just think how I felt when I woke up the next morning to find damn bear snot and slobber all over my dang table grill that the sorry little tick mat destroyed. He bent the piss out of it. I took a mallet to it and at least now it closes. Sorry ole bear.:mad:
He is a good bear.Did you see my good old big buddy?
tom_alan
01-11-2009, 23:14
Yeah, just think how I felt when I woke up the next morning to find damn bear snot and slobber all over my dang table grill that the sorry little tick mat destroyed. He bent the piss out of it. I took a mallet to it and at least now it closes. Sorry ole bear.:mad:
Dang it man got to clean my screen again!!
Good thing you didn't have it in the front seat of your truck ~ he may have broke a window out getting to it.
When I hiked the Columbine Trail a few weeks back there was a van with a broken window and a cooler pulled halfway through the window. Wasn't like that on my way up.
Yeah, just think how I felt when I woke up the next morning to find damn bear snot and slobber all over my dang table grill that the sorry little tick mat destroyed. He bent the piss out of it. I took a mallet to it and at least now it closes. Sorry ole bear.:mad:
If he was on the AT...he go 500#:rolleyes:easy.
A bear took me out last year this time in snp tore my tent... up a few holes in my sleeping bag that i was in.... pulled for a few feet...than it was over.....the atc has my report.....
Yeah, but how much did the bear weigh?:D
My husband furnished me with some statistics posted on his cycling website. They're interesting. Would be even more interesting if they're true.
For every person killed by black bears
Dogs kill 60
Bees kill 180
Lighting kills 350
This supposedly came from the National Center for Health Statistics
BumpJumper
01-13-2009, 12:04
Slow, I did not see or hear him. I was out like a light after taking a gallon of Nyquil. The next morning, I got up to make us breakfast and walah...on the ground broke with BEAR EVIDENCE on it.:D
Desert Reprobate
01-13-2009, 14:51
Bear Solution: Hang your hammock 30 feet up and keep your food in your lap.
BumpJumper
01-13-2009, 17:29
:D:D:D:D:D:D That would do it.:D:D:D:D
Slow, I did not see or hear him. I was out like a light after taking a gallon of Nyquil. The next morning, I got up to make us breakfast and walah...on the ground broke with BEAR EVIDENCE on it.:D
Is that a joke?We dont have big bears in fl.:Just up north.:eek:
BumpJumper
01-13-2009, 21:02
:d:d:d:d:d:d
This happened about a week ago near here not too far from the AT.
http://www.examiner.com/a-1764769~Va_hunter_attacked_by_bear.html?cid=rss-Virginia_Headlines
I'm glad the bear got a lick in before those guys shot it. I'm not all that keen on chasing bears up trees with dogs and shooting them as they cower in fear.
Hey slow, you're right there are no 400 lb bears anywhere on the east coast -- now give it a rest.
Wrong! A 600 pound bear was killed by black-powder hunters near Roanoke in 2006.
http://www.roanoke.com/outdoors/wb/wb/xp-94171
BumpJumper
01-14-2009, 17:36
Marta, thank the hubby for the stats. That is something.
Hikerhead
01-14-2009, 19:28
Wrong! A 600 pound bear was killed by black-powder hunters near Roanoke in 2006.
http://www.roanoke.com/outdoors/wb/wb/xp-94171
That actually happened outside of SNP. The Roanoke paper reported it.
That actually happened outside of SNP. The Roanoke paper reported it.
600 pounds. He must have been snacking on a lot of hikers.
Skywalker
01-15-2009, 10:33
I contracted "ursuphobia" on the AT in 2005, and this discussion is giving me a relapse.
Of course, it's all irrational, but that's beside the point. The reason bears scare the hell out of certain people so much, and other more deadly creatures (ex. spiders) are not as much cause for concern, is because with a bear your fate is completely outside of your own hands. A three-year old has every bit as much of a chance against "the wrong bear" as Mike Tyson.
Skywalker--Close Encounters on the Appalachian Trail