PA Mid State Trail

[Camping Dave]

I started a thread in the hammock forum about my trip on Pennsylvania's Mid State Trail: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39002

Here are a few more pics.

[ki0eh]

It appears that, as advertised, you encountered more bears than people...

[The Solemates]

thanks for the photos!

this trail is a toss up between a few others for our annual PA thanksgiving hike.

so talk me into it...why should i do this one over the:

LoyalSock Trail
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry...loyalsock.aspx

west rim trail
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/Forestry...g/westrim.aspx

allegheny front trail
http://www.alleghenyfronttrail.info/

chuck keiper trail
http://www.pahikes.com/ChuckKeiperTrail/default.asp

[ki0eh]

Here's a previous thread: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7710

[Camping Dave]

It appears that, as advertised, you encountered more bears than people...

Papa bear, mama bear, and baby bear too!

[ki0eh]

thanks for the photos!

this trail is a toss up between a few others for our annual PA thanksgiving hike.

so talk me into it...why should i do this one over the:

LoyalSock Trail
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry...loyalsock.aspx

west rim trail
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/Forestry...g/westrim.aspx

allegheny front trail
http://www.alleghenyfronttrail.info/

chuck keiper trail
http://www.pahikes.com/ChuckKeiperTrail/default.asp

Some similarities to them all:
-No shelters
-Maintenance perhaps more variable or less intensive than the A.T.
-All are on lands open to hunting.

MST, Loyalsock, West Rim are all linear, AFT and CKT are loops. MST is over 300 miles; Loyalsock, about 60; West Rim, 30.

Some parts of MST and Loyalsock pass through private land and/or State Game Lands where camping is not allowed. Also PA State Game Lands require wearing orange for the month bracketing Thanksgiving which is a good idea also on the others that time of year. A couple of segments of MST in the far north on private land are closed in November-December to avoid hunting conflicts.

You can make a loop of the east end of the Loyalsock - Google "Loyalsock Link Loop" for info.

West Rim Trail is more popular than the others, and Loyalsock is more popular than the other others. WRT has relatively little elevation change compared to the others.

The southern half of MST ranges from rocky to ROCKY. Rocks are easier to deal with and water more plentiful on the northern half of MST. MST has many different views. These guys have some photo albums of the southernmost (perhaps most difficult) MST sections: http://albums.phanfare.com/backpack

WRT has many aspects of the same view. :) Not hard to find many photos online of these.

AFT, Loyalsock, and MST have notable streamside segments.

Whether any of them is "better" than the others depends very much on what you're looking for.

[The Solemates]

These guys have some photo albums of the southernmost (perhaps most difficult) MST sections: http://albums.phanfare.com/backpack



I did the Laurel Highlands Trail last year. I like to do a new trail every year.

[ki0eh]

I did the Laurel Highlands Trail last year. I like to do a new trail every year.

The front page of their web site is a bit confusing but their photos are amazing. Direct links to their MST albums if this works: http://albums.phanfare.com/4894106/2160297 and http://albums.phanfare.com/4894106/2160387#imageID=31035689

[gonewalkabout]

I've done a few of the PA trails, all are great. Another one wroth mentioning is the Black Forest Trail. It's a 42-45 mile loop with many connector trails to cut it short if desired. The loop makes logistics easy. It's more rugged than the West rim trail. Almost Catskill lie climbs in places just less rock and not as much gain. If you not in trail condition its a trough one.

[The Solemates]

I've done a few of the PA trails, all are great. Another one wroth mentioning is the Black Forest Trail. It's a 42-45 mile loop with many connector trails to cut it short if desired. The loop makes logistics easy. It's more rugged than the West rim trail. Almost Catskill lie climbs in places just less rock and not as much gain. If you not in trail condition its a trough one.

have you done the baker trail? if so, how was it?

[ki0eh]

The front page of their web site is a bit confusing but their photos are amazing. Direct links to their MST albums if this works: http://albums.phanfare.com/4894106/2160297 and http://albums.phanfare.com/4894106/2160387#imageID=31035689

Tim took his albums away from public view for some reason unknown to me. Greatly missed!

However we now have a substitute of sorts - a fellow from CT sectioned the northern half and the southernmost quarter, and his pix are now posted to: http://picasaweb.google.com/hike.pix

That leaves the near-south quarter of MST uncovered, however this web page makes up for it: http://www.pahikes.com/trails/midstateSC_overview.asp

[The Solemates]

we've decided to do some of this southern half...looking forward to it!

[Ziggy Trek]

As I learn more about this trail, I amazed at how many different organizations come together to make it what it is. I'm sure there may be, the normal, human nature flaws embedded in the dynamics, like power and envy, but the final product is an impressive trail. I'm not behind the scenes so all I see is the success and cooperation.

I can't wait to experience the MST. Sounds like thorough planning is in order.
I'm researching to maybe plan a 3 or 4 day section for January. (Waiting on my delivery of section maps from KTA first.) I should have ordered the guide too.

[handlebar]

You might also check out the Quehanna Trail in north central PA. It's a 70 mile loop, but can be broken up into shorter east and west loops by a "cross connector" trail through the center. It goes through the Quehanna Wild Area. Heed the "Wear orange" if you go, because deer rifle season opens the Monday after Thanksgiving and the woods will be filled with hunters. You can start and end at Parker Dam State Park where the showers might still be on in the campground.

[Hammock Hanger]

I did the Laurel Highlands Trail last year. I like to do a new trail every year.


Cookerhiker mentioned this trail to me and I may try it come spring. Did you like it??

[The Solemates]

Cookerhiker mentioned this trail to me and I may try it come spring. Did you like it??

yes, it was a nice little trail. the scenery was mostly forest land with not a lot of vistas, but there were a few here and there. but it was a great place to go for solitude. unfortunately i hiked during prime hunting season, so i saw lots of hunters, but if you were to hike outside of season i am certain you would go all 70 miles without ever seeing another person.

[The Solemates]

by the way, we're hiking from poe paddy sobo down towards 22 on the MST next week. does anyone have hunting season dates for this section? a website with these dates?

i've got my blaze orange already packed...

[ki0eh]

by the way, we're hiking from poe paddy sobo down towards 22 on the MST next week. does anyone have hunting season dates for this section? a website with these dates?


http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=460&q=161003 is the official website

You will be in WMU 4D.

Good luck and have fun!

[Ziggy Trek]

You might also check out the Quehanna Trail in north central PA. It's a 70 mile loop, but can be broken up into shorter east and west loops by a "cross connector" trail through the center. It goes through the Quehanna Wild Area. Heed the "Wear orange" if you go, because deer rifle season opens the Monday after Thanksgiving and the woods will be filled with hunters. You can start and end at Parker Dam State Park where the showers might still be on in the campground.
Now you got me interested in wading through that idea. There seems to be a good chunk of material on the web. Loops are a logistical Godsend when you have to go solo. Thanks for the tip!

[ki0eh]

The new guide and map set is finally printed and back in stock!

The guide describes the whole way from MD to NY. Two new color waterproof maps (similar to the KTA A.T. maps) cover the older and more popular sections in the middle, US 22 north to Blackwell.

Black-and-white waterproof maps cover US 22 south to MD. Download maps for Blackwell north crossing Tioga County to NY. (There's still some work to do to improve/secure parts of these extensions so color maps should follow once the route stabilizes. Changes to the guide and additional temporary maps will be posted to the MSTA web site until printings come out.)

Buy individual pieces or the whole set from MSTA: http://www.hike-mst.org/guide.html Other sources should be re-stocking by spring '09.

[Ramble~On]

:-? Wow ! MD to NY ?

I love this trail, used to live in State College.
I always hated the maps. New maps are out and it's grown...that's great
The MST is what got long distance hiking into my blood.
I have hundreds of photos of this trail and some show my gear at the time..:rolleyes: oh my, things have changed!

Bears, gnats, rattlesnakes, porcupines, rocks, dry ridges and no people !

[The Solemates]

did 45 miles of the MST over thanksgiving and used the new guide thanks to ki0eh! thanks to all who put so much work into making the guide and maps up to date! the guide worked great for assisting in our walk. the section of trail around state college we did was very well blazed...excellent trail!

[ki0eh]

I was wondering how y'uns made out. Did you do a TR anywhere?

[volks-man]

here is a video of a typical trail on PA's MST.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmSG0bd4EPA

there are plenty more MST vids there. some are set to music. :cool: http://www.youtube.com/user/volksmanhiking (http://www.youtube.com/user/volksmanhiking)
one also depicts my wife climbing the '1000 steps' near mount union PA. (lame music due to copyrights... it was set to stairway to heaven:mad:)



enjoy.:)

[phishpapond]

The state is going to stop taking care of this or already has. The Bald Eagle state forest portion kicked my ***

[ki0eh]

The state is going to stop taking care of this or already has.

Huh, what? The Mid State Trail Association http://www.hike-mst.org is still very much in business. Soon there will be an announcement of a 40th anniversary brew at http://www.elkcreekcafe.net/ More volunteers are certainly needed, in September there will be an opportunity to come out with a group in Bald Eagle forest, based at Poe Paddy: http://www.kta-hike.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=37

[ki0eh]

Just wanted to let everyone know about a 40th Anniversary Party for the Mid State Trail. The party will be held on July 12th from 2:00 - 4:00 PM at the Elk Creek Cafe + Aleworks http://www.elkcreekcafe.com/ in Millheim, PA. The Elk Creek will also be debuting their newest beer at the event: the Mid State Trail Ale. All are invited for good times and good beer.

[volks-man]

Just wanted to let everyone know about a 40th Anniversary Party for the Mid State Trail. The party will be held on July 12th from 2:00 - 4:00 PM at the Elk Creek Cafe + Aleworks http://www.elkcreekcafe.com/ in Millheim, PA. The Elk Creek will also be debuting their newest beer at the event: the Mid State Trail Ale. All are invited for good times and good beer.
a pint of 'double rainbow' and a burger (man, they are good!) would have been fine with me.....
the mid state ale is a bonus! now, what will i be doing on the 12th that i will have to get out of to be in millheim?:cool:

[ki0eh]

MST is featured in the Summer 2009 issue of "American Hiker" magazine.

(And the beer party for the 40th anniversary is this weekend!)

[volks-man]

MST is featured in the Summer 2009 issue of "American Hiker" magazine.

(And the beer party for the 40th anniversary is this weekend!)
how'd the party go?
anyone get arrested?;)

alas, it wasn't in the cards for me and the wife to make the 6+ hour drive on the 12th. i had wanted to thank you nice folks in person for keeping my trail going like you do (beer was a motive too). i hope it was a blast!

[The Solemates]

we're headed back for another 5 days along in a month. we are going to do from the NY border sobo. I know there are a smatterin' of roadwalks in this area, but according to the mst website we should be good to go.

does anyone have any further updates that we need to know about?

[ki0eh]

how'd the party go?


I heard it was good. I couldn't go, but I did observe that Dr. Thwaites survived because I saw him and Barbara at the ATC biennial meeting the following weekend.


we're headed back for another 5 days along in a month. we are going to do from the NY border sobo. I know there are a smatterin' of roadwalks in this area, but according to the mst website we should be good to go.

does anyone have any further updates that we need to know about?

The privately owned RV's Mt Top is a much cooler midsummer location than the Corps of Engineers campgrounds either side of it. Those folks are having a tough time making a go on the mountain so you will be most appreciated, too.

There is a privately owned free campsite a little bit south of PA Route 660. Location is shown on the 4/09 revision of Map T19. Firewood's cut and stacked. As of a couple of weeks ago the landowner said no one's yet signed the register. I've been away for weeks so have been unable to generate the newest temporary guide to go with those currently posted maps.

It's also been tough to keep ahead of annual growth this year. Most of the Cowanesque Lake area was mowed a couple of weeks ago - at that time it showed little trace of having been mowed end of May/beginning of June. Most of the north end yet sees so little use that annual growth could make wayfinding difficult, although most of the really bad areas have been mowed at least once. A few spots get bad nettles too.

Detailed observations good or ill are appreciated, if you don't feel like sounding like the toilet paper guy you can PM them to me.

[Hoop Time]

Huh, what? The Mid State Trail Association http://www.hike-mst.org is still very much in business. Soon there will be an announcement of a 40th anniversary brew at http://www.elkcreekcafe.net/ More volunteers are certainly needed, in September there will be an opportunity to come out with a group in Bald Eagle forest, based at Poe Paddy: http://www.kta-hike.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=37

I have tried two or three times to check out the brewpub while at Poe Paddy fishing. Each time the darned place has been closed on Monday or Tuesday.

As for the trail and the work party, I am hoping to get up for that. I did a short piece south of Poe Paddy in the spring and it badly needs maintenance, particularly remarking the blazes. This trail is not a worn footpath to anywhere near the extent the AT is and without blazes it would be easy to get off track. A couple times in that short section I found myself searching and searching for the next orange blaze to know where I was going.

Also did the rail trail portion north of Poe Paddy with Cookie Monster last weekend. A very beautiful, though undemanding stroll along Penns Creek. That section is pretty low maintenance and prob. needs little to no work in September.

If things work as planned, I will get to Poe Paddy early Friday to fish a little in the evening before the maintenance work Saturday.

[ki0eh]

I just passed on another report received on e-mail (even more recently than yours) about the area between US 322 and Poe Paddy. I'm planning to be on the work party too, that stretch badly needed work in March this year when I did some of it so surely needs more now. There has been a good bit of work south of US 322 but conditions change drastically as soon as you come out of the culvert.

[ki0eh]

we're headed back for another 5 days along in a month. we are going to do from the NY border sobo. I know there are a smatterin' of roadwalks in this area, but according to the mst website we should be good to go.

does anyone have any further updates that we need to know about?

Just remembered, here's a trip report from another site of the far north end: http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8316

[The Solemates]

thanks for the update ki0eh. we'll post upon our return. if you think of anything else in the meantime, please let us know. we plan to hike from the border south to blackwell.

[ki0eh]

I'd recommend unless you're a total blaze purist, wandering off the orange blazes for the last 2 km onto the entry into Blackwell taken by these folks: http://www.pahikes.com/trails/midstate11.asp (which was the intended route if you want to be totally absolutely pure anyway ;) ). The final vista here was proclaimed by Tom Thwaites himself to be the best on the MST system, perhaps not all will agree but that's certainly an authority.

[Blue Sky II]

Check out the exotic animals at the Tioga Hunting Preserve. The lone Amererican Bison was an intimidating presence when I walked by a few years ago. There was a huge guard dog in a pasture right just south of the entrance to Mt. Top Campground, you might want to stay out of that pasture. Don't camp at Sand Run Falls on a weekend or you may have many neighbors. Of course, no late summer walk through Pennsylvania will be complete without stinging nettles, which may be found along some runs just south of Lake Hammond. The three lakes are all nice: nice walk around miles of Cowanesque, Lake Hammond has a camp store next to the trail, and there is a nice isolated sitting bench in the woods at one end of Hills Creek Lake with a great view looking down the lake. Oh, and there are "primitive" walk-in campsites near the trail on the north shore of Cowanesque.

[ki0eh]

Check out the exotic animals at the Tioga Hunting Preserve. The lone Amererican Bison was an intimidating presence when I walked by a few years ago.

MST's been relocated (April 2009) away from that fence (including digging up the "Cowanesque Lake 6 km" sign and re-planting it), but one can blue-blaze over through campground property to see one corner of the preserve from where that sign used to be.


There was a huge guard dog in a pasture right just south of the entrance to Mt. Top Campground, you might want to stay out of that pasture.

Still there according to the TR linked below:


...here's a trip report from another site of the far north end: http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8316 (http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8316)

But that area's easy enough to detour on gravel roads paralleling MST to the west.


Don't camp at Sand Run Falls on a weekend or you may have many neighbors.

Yep, that's the official loose dog campsite of Tioga County. Nice to see though.

Possible alternatives are a clearing 2.5 km north, just barely within State Forest land; and the bottom of the Nickel Run Falls side trail (past the falls, onto the railroad bed) 5 km trail-south. This blog post (http://landrus.blogspot.com/2005/07/abutments-mossy-waterfallspart-2.html) shows the locality of the second option. (It was supposed to be on the main trail but at the last minute wasn't due to a bureaucratic snafu.)

[The Solemates]

Just got off the trail today. we had beautiful weather the whole time and really enjoyed ourselves. did ny - blackwell sobo.

more southern portions were more scenic and well maintained. we especially like the stony fork area. the northernmost sections skirted around private land and were overgrown. thankfully, the trail was very well blazed. thanks to ki0eh and all the trail maintainers!!! we would have lost the trail many times if not for it being so well blazed (actually we did lose it many times, but were able to find it again by backtracking to the last blaze).

the only portion that was nearly unbearable was the few miles just south of the antrim road crossing. we got all cut-up trying to follow the trail (ripped my pants to shreds), and ended up bushwhacking back to the road and followed it all the way to 287. some portions in this section were chest high with blackberry thorns with no evidence of a trail. we did get about 3-4 cups of fresh blackberries for our efforts though. we talked to some people in town who said the hunting club will not allow people in there (I think he meant ATVs) to keep it cleared.

our feet were constantly wet in the northern sections since we were always walking through knee-high grass that did not seem to dry out during the day. fresh corn was abundant (but dont tell the farmers) although we only took the cobs that had already fallen to the ground.

regardless of the time of year you hike, if you plan to hike the MST bring pants. we were thankful for them many times even though they made us sweat. between the high grass, thorns, stinging nettles, etc, pants are really a necessity. you will be bushwhacking at times.

the road walks were hard on the feet, but gave us decent countryside views. we got tired of the road walks at times, enjoyed them other times.

other than that, the trail was in decent shape. looking forward to the next section hike of the MST.

[ki0eh]

Appreciate the report!

It's especially sad in a year like this to know that we have a walk behind DR mower in the Tioga Region MST, but not yet the volunteers to keep it in use. The usual type of volunteer overseer just doesn't seem to be interested in that type of work to remove annual growth. Would appreciate any ideas on how to find folks to do recreational mowing - even once a year (blackberries) to three times a year (hay) would do wonders to help. There seem to be plenty of folks in rural areas who seem to get into mowing, they just don't seem to be hiker volunteers.

Until then, I certainly never go out without wearing long pants. ;)

Did you use the new campsite? (in private land south of Route 6)

[The Solemates]

Appreciate the report!

It's especially sad in a year like this to know that we have a walk behind DR mower in the Tioga Region MST, but not yet the volunteers to keep it in use. The usual type of volunteer overseer just doesn't seem to be interested in that type of work to remove annual growth. Would appreciate any ideas on how to find folks to do recreational mowing - even once a year (blackberries) to three times a year (hay) would do wonders to help. There seem to be plenty of folks in rural areas who seem to get into mowing, they just don't seem to be hiker volunteers.

Until then, I certainly never go out without wearing long pants. ;)

Did you use the new campsite? (in private land south of Route 6)

re: volunteers for mowing, I've got no good ideas. i would certainly volunteer if i didnt live 700 miles away :)

we did use wimbrough campsite, and were thankful for it since there is really no other option for this section. you have to do a bit of planning your campspots for this trail due to the amount of private land you skirt around, which I was not used to. I usually just lay down and sleep when i get tired :) i can pretty much sleep anywhere, but i didnt want to lay me down somewhere i was not welcome.

thanks again for all you do!

[volks-man]

kioeh,
noticed my comments to you on blazes in the mst summer newsletter.
you are a man of your word, in regards to your forwarding my comments. i appreciate all you and the other volunteers do for/on the MST.

THANK YOU ALL!

[ki0eh]

the only portion that was nearly unbearable was the few miles just south of the antrim road crossing. we got all cut-up trying to follow the trail (ripped my pants to shreds), and ended up bushwhacking back to the road and followed it all the way to 287. some portions in this section were chest high with blackberry thorns with no evidence of a trail. we did get about 3-4 cups of fresh blackberries for our efforts though. we talked to some people in town who said the hunting club will not allow people in there (I think he meant ATVs) to keep it cleared.

I passed on this report to the volunteer overseer assigned to that section. He told me today that 4 folks went through and cleared it last Thursday. Thanks again for the info - we do need to hear things like this, otherwise we could assume all is well!

[The Solemates]

I passed on this report to the volunteer overseer assigned to that section. He told me today that 4 folks went through and cleared it last Thursday. Thanks again for the info - we do need to hear things like this, otherwise we could assume all is well!

awesome. thanks!

[Hoop Time]

ki0eh .. (or anybody else) ... you planning to go up to Poe Paddy the 19th-20th for the trail maintenance work party?

EDIT: NEVER MIND! Shoulda read the rest of page 2 of the thread.

[Hoop Time]

OK, now I do have a question: Do they plan to camp in one of the group tenting areas, or should I go ahead and reserve myself a site?

[ki0eh]

Typically for these things there will be a sign leading to a group tenting area. It is best to register in advance with the trip leader, in this case Dr. Thwaites - see here (http://www.kta-hike.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=37) for contact info.

[Hoop Time]

Thanks ... have his contact info already. I'm hoping to make it, but still waiting to see if I can get away that weekend, and may not know till a day or two before. I'm sure they can always find something for an extra pair of hands to do.

[ki0eh]

I'm sure they can always find something for an extra pair of hands to do.

YES, very much so! Hope you can make it.

[The Solemates]

I think my MST hiking partner may have to back out on me this year due to work (but I also think he's halfway using the excuse that we've already hiked enough trail this year).

Anyone interested in joining me? I'd like to do a section between blackwell and poe paddy...not sure of logistics just yet. might even consider doing the whole section. I'm thinking of Sat 21 Nov - Wed 25 Nov. let me know.

[simon]

That is black bear season, make sure you are wearing orange. (kindly reminder)

[Hoop Time]

Two videos shot on the MST are now posted on PennLive.com ... one shows a Dr. Thwaites bridge (http://videos.pennlive.com/patriot-news/2009/10/building_bridges.html)being built, the other is more an appeal for folks to volunteer (http://videos.pennlive.com/patriot-news/2009/10/nothing_natural.html) to help maintain the trails

[volks-man]

I think my MST hiking partner may have to back out on me this year due to work (but I also think he's halfway using the excuse that we've already hiked enough trail this year).

Anyone interested in joining me? I'd like to do a section between blackwell and poe paddy...not sure of logistics just yet. might even consider doing the whole section. I'm thinking of Sat 21 Nov - Wed 25 Nov. let me know.

without my mst guide in front of me....
where is blackwell? i have completed sections 7 - 12, and therefor hiked through poe paddy already.

i am interested in hiking with someone new, the knucklehead i hiked with previously is currently unavailable and solo can get boring. my wife prefers that i go with someone anyways :).

though i am almost never able to make plans that far out (work issues) and most likely would not be able to go i am interested in the idea!
v

[The Solemates]

That is black bear season, make sure you are wearing orange. (kindly reminder)

yep...we go this time every year. they love us :)


without my mst guide in front of me....
where is blackwell? i have completed sections 7 - 12, and therefor hiked through poe paddy already.

i am interested in hiking with someone new, the knucklehead i hiked with previously is currently unavailable and solo can get boring. my wife prefers that i go with someone anyways :).

though i am almost never able to make plans that far out (work issues) and most likely would not be able to go i am interested in the idea!
v

well, i have not completed poe paddy to blackwell (which correspond to sections 10-16 i think), and then also have not completed the southern sections down towards MD. i would be up for anything in these sections. we could maybe do sections 1-6 or less since you havent done those. like the kindly reminder above :) we would also need to check the maps. there are certain areas that we would not be able to hike through due to closures during hunting season.

we'll keep in touch.

www.hike-mst.org

[ki0eh]

Regarding Blackwell - Great hiking near there - but the Blackwell Hotel that used to offer fine food and cold beer, which we considered noteworthy enough to serve as a section break between sections 16 and 17 in the new guide, has been shut down for maybe over a year now. Hoping it will reopen, but not looking good since a "reopening soon" sign seems to have disappeared according to local reports.

[volks-man]

yep...we go this time every year. they love us :)



well, i have not completed poe paddy to blackwell (which correspond to sections 10-16 i think), and then also have not completed the southern sections down towards MD. i would be up for anything in these sections. we could maybe do sections 1-6 or less since you havent done those. like the kindly reminder above :) we would also need to check the maps. there are certain areas that we would not be able to hike through due to closures during hunting season.

we'll keep in touch.

www.hike-mst.org (http://www.hike-mst.org)

i would only be able to do around 30 miles. three weeks ago i did sections 11-12 at roughly 32 miles. i found out my limitatons that weekend. i was carrying a little heavy and wound up hurting my right knee a bit, late in the first day. a little favoring of the right resulted in injuring the left. the end of the second day, decending in to ravensburg state park, consisted of me hobbling down the last steep slope inches at a time. this all sucked pretty bad as i had been making killer time most of the way!

btw: i am no wimp. i will not hold you or anybody else up on the trail! i will try to stay tween 2 and 3 mph even hurt.

i have been in talks with a relative in PA about day-hiking section 13 from ravensburg sp northbound at the end of this month as a sort of recovery test-run (13 miles as i recall). if my knees survive that then i'm game for a 2-3 day trip given it isn't a million miles:).

regarding bears and hunting: i thought the trail remained open, but at your own risk?
skimming the guide i only see cautions about blaze orange and private land restrictions during hunting season.:confused:

[The Solemates]

i would only be able to do around 30 miles. three weeks ago i did sections 11-12 at roughly 32 miles. i found out my limitatons that weekend. i was carrying a little heavy and wound up hurting my right knee a bit, late in the first day. a little favoring of the right resulted in injuring the left. the end of the second day, decending in to ravensburg state park, consisted of me hobbling down the last steep slope inches at a time. this all sucked pretty bad as i had been making killer time most of the way!

btw: i am no wimp. i will not hold you or anybody else up on the trail! i will try to stay tween 2 and 3 mph even hurt.

i have been in talks with a relative in PA about day-hiking section 13 from ravensburg sp northbound at the end of this month as a sort of recovery test-run (13 miles as i recall). if my knees survive that then i'm game for a 2-3 day trip given it isn't a million miles:).

regarding bears and hunting: i thought the trail remained open, but at your own risk?
skimming the guide i only see cautions about blaze orange and private land restrictions during hunting season.:confused:

if you could join me for either the beginning or end of my section and help me out with shuttling cars that would be much appreciated!

re miles we can do whatever you think you can handle. we usually do around 15 a day or so on these trips but it doesnt matter and i can scale back. some trips we've been known to do 25 miles in a day, and on others only 6-8. remember there will be little daylight, probably a good bit of snow, and yes, hunters. and there are sections that are technically closed off during hunting seasons. i have the guidebook that states this in certain sections. and of the maps that are available online, most of them say that as well:

http://www.hike-mst.org/Maps/Map_T18.pdf
http://www.hike-mst.org/Maps/Map_T19.pdf
http://www.hike-mst.org/Maps/T20.pdf

sections 1-5 designate going through state game lands (SGL's) and I'm sure they may have closings as well. ki0eh would be able to tell us.

[volks-man]

if you could join me for either the beginning or end of my section and help me out with shuttling cars that would be much appreciated!

re miles we can do whatever you think you can handle. we usually do around 15 a day or so on these trips but it doesnt matter and i can scale back. some trips we've been known to do 25 miles in a day, and on others only 6-8. remember there will be little daylight, probably a good bit of snow, and yes, hunters. and there are sections that are technically closed off during hunting seasons. i have the guidebook that states this in certain sections. and of the maps that are available online, most of them say that as well:

http://www.hike-mst.org/Maps/Map_T18.pdf
http://www.hike-mst.org/Maps/Map_T19.pdf
http://www.hike-mst.org/Maps/T20.pdf

sections 1-5 designate going through state game lands (SGL's) and I'm sure they may have closings as well. ki0eh would be able to tell us.
25 mile days? you don't fool around!:)

regarding milelage:
in april i did pa322-pa45 section @ 27 miles over the weekend. kept a good pace on the first leg in to poe paddy and then flew throught the second half in 5 hours or so. could have gone much further! thought i was ready for anything! i am hoping that this injury was just a fluke. last weekend i walked a little 5 mile trail in eastern PA at a park called '5 mile wood' with no trouble.......... so........ we'll see later this month.

regarding hunting closures:
thanks for the heads up. never noticed the closures on the maps before.

[ki0eh]

sections 1-5 designate going through state game lands (SGL's) and I'm sure they may have closings as well. ki0eh would be able to tell us.

The MST sections through SGL are to be used in accordance with SGL regulations which notably do not allow camping or fires, without the limited exception that applies to the A.T. (http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter135/chap135toc.html#135.2) and require the wearing of orange Nov 15 to Dec 15 (http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter135/s135.41.html) . MST sections 1-5, 16, 17, and 19 (using the 11th edition guide section numbers) pass in part or wholly through SGL. (Section 6, although not SGL, is on a rail-trail that currently offers no camping accommodation.)

Although the trail does not have a closure period on SGL, we have noticed that on SGL 97 especially (this is south of Everett) some "hunters" have been observed to complain about even PGC-authorized trail maintenance activities, even in October. We don't really recommend hiking anywhere on MST during the rifle bear and deer seasons. The entire MST, including State Forest, is open to hunting.

Private lands are closed the first Monday in February as stated in the guide, and further hunting season closures with varying dates affect parts of Sections 18, 19, and 20 as noted on the maps and in the guide or posted guide revisions on http://www.hike-mst.org/guide.html . (Note as I write this there is not yet posted a guide revision for section 20 matching relocations effective spring 2009, although these show on the maps.)

[The Solemates]

The MST sections through SGL are to be used in accordance with SGL regulations which notably do not allow camping or fires, without the limited exception that applies to the A.T. (http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter135/chap135toc.html#135.2) and require the wearing of orange Nov 15 to Dec 15 (http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter135/s135.41.html) . MST sections 1-5, 16, 17, and 19 (using the 11th edition guide section numbers) pass in part or wholly through SGL. (Section 6, although not SGL, is on a rail-trail that currently offers no camping accommodation.)

Although the trail does not have a closure period on SGL, we have noticed that on SGL 97 especially (this is south of Everett) some "hunters" have been observed to complain about even PGC-authorized trail maintenance activities, even in October. We don't really recommend hiking anywhere on MST during the rifle bear and deer seasons. The entire MST, including State Forest, is open to hunting.

Private lands are closed the first Monday in February as stated in the guide, and further hunting season closures with varying dates affect parts of Sections 18, 19, and 20 as noted on the maps and in the guide or posted guide revisions on http://www.hike-mst.org/guide.html . (Note as I write this there is not yet posted a guide revision for section 20 matching relocations effective spring 2009, although these show on the maps.)


wow. sounds to me like we need to focus on sections 11-15 or so then for our thanksgiving hike? ..wihch, despite the 'recommendations' :), would be the best choice

doing sections 11-15 or so... we would be in state forests lands mostly which I would feel better about than SGL's (such as in sections 1-5).

hunters sure do ruin my hiking fun sometimes. maybe i just need to carry a rifle when i go so that I can say I'm "hunting" :)

[ki0eh]

Section 16, though a bit of it is on SGL 75, is about as isolated as PA hiking gets. Other than not camping, there's not much different there than the surrounding State Forest lands in the Pine Creek Valley, including hunting pressure. Most hunters and realtors don't know the difference between State Forest and SGL anyway.

[The Solemates]

16 sounds good...volks-man how about sections 13-16 (around 60 miles)?
ki0eh, wanna join us?

[ki0eh]

ki0eh, wanna join us?

Want to, yes, will, most likely not. I work in a sector that's being economically stimulated and things are pretty busy, alas.

[volks-man]

Want to, yes, will, most likely not. I work in a sector that's being economically stimulated and things are pretty busy, alas.
ah,
he's either a prison gaurd or a repo-man!

[volks-man]

16 sounds good...volks-man how about sections 13-16 (around 60 miles)?
ki0eh, wanna join us?

if all goes to plan later this month i will have completed sec 13 already.
that might actually work out pretty good! :)
if i were dropped in on sec 14 at pa 150 and walked through to the end of 16 with you, the wife could retreive us and drop you back at your vehicle afterward.

only question is the pace. my part would be 50 miles. if you plan to do this in two days then i am simply not in your league :eek:. i think i could stand 3, 16 mile days though...

[ki0eh]

... or a repo-man!

Well, I did once own a Chevy Malibu, but it didn't wind up in Area 51, so far as I know!

( reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repo_Man_(film)) )

[The Solemates]

if all goes to plan later this month i will have completed sec 13 already.
that might actually work out pretty good! :)
if i were dropped in on sec 14 at pa 150 and walked through to the end of 16 with you, the wife could retreive us and drop you back at your vehicle afterward.

only question is the pace. my part would be 50 miles. if you plan to do this in two days then i am simply not in your league :eek:. i think i could stand 3, 16 mile days though...

no no no. i have sat-sun-mon-tues-wed to hike and am in no hurry.

if i started northbound saturday at noon, i could hike all of section 13 (21 km [13 miles]) and meet up with you sunday morning or mid-day (22 Nov) in Woolrich. then, that gives us sun(pm)-mon-tues-wed(am) (3 'days') to hike 40 miles (sections 14, 15,and 16)...a 13 mpd pace.

[volks-man]

no no no. i have sat-sun-mon-tues-wed to hike and am in no hurry.

if i started northbound saturday at noon, i could hike all of section 13 (21 km [13 miles]) and meet up with you sunday morning or mid-day (22 Nov) in Woolrich. then, that gives us sun(pm)-mon-tues-wed(am) (3 'days') to hike 40 miles (sections 14, 15,and 16)...a 13 mpd pace.

and the peices begin to fit....

only flaw i see in your plan is the 40 mile part. by my calcs that is 50 miles.
section 14: 13.8, section 15: 10.52, section 16: 25.25.
my day-hike with my cousin on section 13 this month will still be the deciding factor though. if i can't handle that with basically no gear then i am too cooked to do a long hike for a while. (fingers crossed)

now we need to figure out how we each camp. are you a 'hanger' or a ground person? makes a difference when where we can stop, i would think. i have been trying out hanging here lately but can do both.
out of curiousity, do you cook on the trail? do you light campfires? hang food nights? never really hiked with a pro before.... just trying to get a feel for how you guys do it.:)

[The Solemates]

and the peices begin to fit....

only flaw i see in your plan is the 40 mile part. by my calcs that is 50 miles.
section 14: 13.8, section 15: 10.52, section 16: 25.25.
my day-hike with my cousin on section 13 this month will still be the deciding factor though. if i can't handle that with basically no gear then i am too cooked to do a long hike for a while. (fingers crossed)

now we need to figure out how we each camp. are you a 'hanger' or a ground person? makes a difference when where we can stop, i would think. i have been trying out hanging here lately but can do both.
out of curiousity, do you cook on the trail? do you light campfires? hang food nights? never really hiked with a pro before.... just trying to get a feel for how you guys do it.:)


a pro? thats funny. obviously not at math...you are right; its 50 miles. therefore a sunday morning start at woolrich would be best, that way we have 3.5-4 days to hike the remaining 50 miles at a more leisurely pace.

i tent camp. i cook breakfasts and suppers. sometimes i light fires...depending on how tired and cold i am. dont hang food...put it in the tent.

[The Solemates]

my day-hike with my cousin on section 13 this month will still be the deciding factor though. if i can't handle that with basically no gear then i am too cooked to do a long hike for a while. (fingers crossed)



so how'd it go?

[volks-man]

so how'd it go?
not great.

i will be unable to accompany you on the MST this T-day week.

unfortunately my left knee (only) did not perform very well. decending the bigger of the 2 mountains we tackled was pure misery. carrying only a water bottle and 6 granola bars in my 'man-purse' should have much easier than it was. especially when you figure in the amount of road-walking the section had.

we hiked yesterday (sun) after the horrid rains they had fri-sat.
8 hours to cover 13 miles.:eek:
though much of the time spent was due to the experience/fitness level of my companions.

my best guess after reading up on it is that i have an iliotibial-band issue in my knee. every step on a down-grade is painful. :( i've decided that i will not be hiking again untill spring, at best.:(

btw:
there was a lot of large recently downed trees on some portions of section 13. one area, 'great island indian path', was extremely hard to get through. i am unsure if nearby sections 12, 14, 15, ect are effected as well. be carefull!

my apologies.
v

[The Solemates]

let me know if anything changes.

[volks-man]

let me know if anything changes.
absolutely.

[Hoop Time]

btw:
there was a lot of large recently downed trees on some portions of section 13. one area, 'great island indian path', was extremely hard to get through. i am unsure if nearby sections 12, 14, 15, ect are effected as well. be carefull!


FYI .. while there is a good chance ki0eh will see that report and pass it along, it is always good to shoot an e-mail to the maintaining club -- whether the MST Association in this case, or the local AT club in the case of the AT -- when you encounter blow downs.

This is especially helpful on trails like the MST which see less traffic. If maintainers are not alerted to problems, they can't fix them.

[volks-man]

FYI .. while there is a good chance ki0eh will see that report and pass it along, it is always good to shoot an e-mail to the maintaining club -- whether the MST Association in this case, or the local AT club in the case of the AT -- when you encounter blow downs.

This is especially helpful on trails like the MST which see less traffic. If maintainers are not alerted to problems, they can't fix them.

ki0eh saw my report before anyone else did. :cool:

[ki0eh]

it is always good to shoot an e-mail to the maintaining club * * * This is especially helpful on trails like the MST which see less traffic. If maintainers are not alerted to problems, they can't fix them.

True!


ki0eh saw my report before anyone else did. :cool:

And true!

[volks-man]

i did forget to mention that there is some light construction going on on the west-branch bridge near the end of the section. doing something to the concrete gaurd rail ends at either end of the bridge.

the workers have junked up the north end abutment area a bit and have blocked the area below with mounds of dirt and large trucks. seems they are intentionally blocking their parking/equipment area off from the road. unfortunately you must traverse the blocked area to continue.

not a big deal but worth mentioning, i think.
:cool:

[The Solemates]

so who wants to give me a shuttle since it looks like I may be hiking alone?

[Blue Sky II]

http://www.sungazette.com/page/content.detail/id/534736.html?nav=5013

Sunday 11/01/09 Williamsport Sun-Gazette: outdoor section

[ki0eh]

btw:
there was a lot of large recently downed trees on some portions of section 13. one area, 'great island indian path', was extremely hard to get through. i am unsure if nearby sections 12, 14, 15, ect are effected as well. be carefull!


I am advised that a crack crew has been out for the last few days and has cleared from a little bit south of R.B. Winter, through Ravensburg and north through this area. Your detailed report via PM was very much appreciated and Ed Lawrence, President of MSTA, has authorized me to convey the thanks of the organization.

Specific reports will continue to be appreciated - whether an e-mail to the points of contact on the MSTA website (http://www.hike-mst.org/contact.html) - a PM to me here - or a report through the KTA trail conditions form on the KTA website (http://www.kta-hike.org/index.php?option=com_forme&fid=1&Itemid=64) , will see action.

We believe the freak autumn snowfall likely continues to affect trail conditions from a little south of R.B. Winter (now), to likely south of State College. Actually, we thought a WB member was to be out in this area during and immediately following the event, but we haven't heard.

At this time we think the area north of Woolrich is less affected.

[The Solemates]

At this time we think the area north of Woolrich is less affected.

i'll certainly let you know here in a couple weeks :)

[volks-man]

I am advised that a crack crew has been out for the last few days and has cleared from a little bit south of R.B. Winter, through Ravensburg and north through this area. Your detailed report via PM was very much appreciated and Ed Lawrence, President of MSTA, has authorized me to convey the thanks of the organization.

Specific reports will continue to be appreciated - whether an e-mail to the points of contact on the MSTA website (http://www.hike-mst.org/contact.html) - a PM to me here - or a report through the KTA trail conditions form on the KTA website (http://www.kta-hike.org/index.php?option=com_forme&fid=1&Itemid=64) , will see action.



no applause necessary.
:)
i'm just doing my thing, walking your great trail.
i didn't know how important trail reports were before... now i get it.
next time out i will report again, only if needed.

you may convey my thanks to Ed Lawrence for his efforts in keeping an awesome trail going!
v

[The Solemates]

Just got off the trail today, day 3 of my trip, and a day early. It poured down raining all last night and much of today. I really gotta get new gear. My tent leaked like a sieve and my overused and abused rain jacket with nearly 4000 miles on it is pretty much worthless:) I also slipped and fell and gashed my knee open on a rock just south of Little Pine Creek State Park. I think cutting my trip short by a few miles was the right thing to do given how sore and swollen my knee continues to be, now several hours later. Besides, who wants to hike in the rain alone? :) My number one rule in hiking is have fun :) Close to the top is also "no hot"....

As such, the weather was not what I was expecting this year. Last year before Thanksgiving we got 8 inches of snow. In fact, I've been hiking Thanksgiving week in PA for a number of years now and always had at least a light dusting, if not more snow. This year I had one day of sunny 60 degree weather and hiked in my shirt sleeves. I ended up sweating a good bit on the climbs. The warmer weather brought out the hunters (it is bear season), but I did not notice as many as I have in past years, especially in 2007 when I hiked the Laurel Highlands Trail (http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/Forestry/hiking/laurel.aspx). My shuttle (Rick Henrich, who owns the outfitter in Lock Haven, and whom I highly recommend) said that I may not see as many hunters in this section since it was more rugged than other areas of the trail. I was glad for that, although I was decked out in blaze orange. I always knew when a road crossing was coming because the hunters never stray more than 1/2 mile or so from the road. Today I only saw one hunter out since it was raining. I overheard two ole-timers talking in town once I got back to the car that this is going to be a significantly down year regarding the bear harvest count. I think only 61 gear were taken on opening day when usually around 300 are taken in a 3-day span. No doubt the rain today even further reduced that number when compared to last year.

The trail was in great shape for the most part. It was fairly well blazed, but I did lose the trail and had to backtrack a couple times, mostly due to the abundance of criss-crossing paths/junctions. I also took a wrong turn at one point and followed the wrong orange blazes....not sure why you would blaze a side trail orange when the main thoroughfare (ie, the MST) is also orange. It was my fault; I was just in the zone and not paying enough attention, but it did add several miles to my trip. The section north of Blackwell to NY that I hiked back in August was better blazed, but it is also a newer section. A note to maintainers (mainly, ki0eh :)): I would not change anything - the trail is better blazed than many I have been on. But at the same time I was glad I had my map with me for some parts. There were not too many blowdowns. The small portions of the trail that went through PA State Game Lands were perfectly manicured; I could literally smell the sawdust on some of the trailside brush. Someone had obviously just been through so as to provide the hunters with unhampered walking.

Thanks to all the maintainers for all they do! Even though I cut it a day short, I had another great time on the MST!

[ki0eh]

Glad to see we didn't get hammered harder further north by the early snow. Which trail did you run off on with the blazing? And you likely chose wisely with a suspect knee to miss the biggest climbs on the MST...

[volks-man]

Just got off the trail today, day 3 of my trip, and a day early.

Thanks to all the maintainers for all they do! Even though I cut it a day short, I had another great time on the MST!


Glad to see we didn't get hammered harder further north by the early snow. Which trail did you run off on with the blazing? And you likely chose wisely with a suspect knee to miss the biggest climbs on the MST...

which sections did you wind up doing?

must be something about that trail and injuring one's knees.:(

shame it rained for you. if it were dry and you hadn't cut your knee how much further would you have gone?

[The Solemates]

which sections did you wind up doing?

must be something about that trail and injuring one's knees.:(

shame it rained for you. if it were dry and you hadn't cut your knee how much further would you have gone?

i hiked from blackwell to south of little pine creek state park - sections 16, 15, and part of 14. my plan was to hike into woolrich...i stopped maybe 15 miles short and ended up doing about 35 miles for the trip.

[ki0eh]

Early indications of MST work weekends for 2010, might be more:

Mar 19-21 State College Region @ large cabin just off US 322 between Milroy and Potters Mills

Jul 9-11 Tioga Region @ Ives Run Recreation Area, Hammond Lake (http://www.nab.usace.army.mil/recreation/tioga.htm), PA 287 between Tioga & Middlebury Center

[Hoop Time]

Early indications of MST work weekends for 2010, might be more:

Mar 19-21 State College Region @ large cabin just off US 322 between Milroy and Potters Mills

Jul 9-11 Tioga Region @ Ives Run Recreation Area, Hammond Lake (http://www.nab.usace.army.mil/recreation/tioga.htm), PA 287 between Tioga & Middlebury Center

The March date sounds like a great excuse to spend a weekend at Poe Paddy, sneak in a little fly fishing on the side. Will have to see how my schedule shakes out, but that is one I am going to shoot for.

[ki0eh]

Mar 19-21 State College Region @ large cabin just off US 322 between Milroy and Potters Mills


Coming right up! Understand we'll be doing things like going brushwhacking in Greens Valley (see Hoop Time's video), re-clearing Big Valley Vista, and placing Great Eastern Trail markers. Weather looks pretty good for Saturday.

[volks-man]

Coming right up! Understand we'll be doing things like going brushwhacking in Greens Valley (see Hoop Time's video), re-clearing Big Valley Vista, and placing Great Eastern Trail markers. Weather looks pretty good for Saturday.

hey there, ki0eh!
how'd it go last week?

i think my brother and i are going to try and do a section or two above woolrich some weekend in april. if we hit two sections this will be his first overnight on a trail.:eek:
heard anything good, bad, or ugly about the trail in this area lately?

we (mostly i) are hoping my bum knee holds up for the spring hike. level and ascending is fine on the knee.........
hopefully there just aren't any decents above woolrich. :)

[Blue Sky II]

"hopefully there just aren't any decents above woolrich." :)[/QUOTE]

There are decents. The two steepest decents in the section above Woolrich are: 1. down into Gamble Run heading north 2. down into Pine Creek Valley heading north. Personally I'd head south to avoid the steepest decents. Even just north of Little Pine State Park where there is a long uphill I'd still head south to avoid the steepest decents, but you can't avoid them all.

[ki0eh]

I'd say if you're looking to avoid steep ascents and descents for the time being then Sections 14, 15, 16 are not for you right now - I believe either side of Pine Creek at Ramsey, while not the highest points of MST (that's way down by the MD border), probably are the largest single climbs.

Sections 18, 19, 20 probably have the most gradual climbs and descents of the entire trail, and also the least rocks. But they also have a lot of private land with camping restrictions, only pay campgrounds on 19 & 20.

Section 17 will have some steeper stuff but not as much as 14-16. DCNR does restrict camping along Stony Fork and Pine Creek though. Even though it's net downhill I think going from the N end to the S end would be a little easier on the knees because the steepest parts in Mossy Run and the little bit from Basswood Run you would hit as uphills - coming down Roland Run and Stone Quarry Run wouldn't be as bad then. Stony Fork is a bad stream crossing if you're from PA - if you're from Maine not as big a deal. If it is uncrossable, hiking N to S you'd be right near the road when you find that and could likely hitch out.

[volks-man]

thanks blue sky and ki0eh!

who knows where we will end up. i'd like to hit some of the flatter stuff in the southern end but the sections above woolrich are much nearer our home-base/launch area in PA. i suppose we will have to weight potential injury against a long tedious drive in seperate vehicles, which is just as bad to me. :)

for the life of me i can't figure why you guys can't make this trail go uphill the whole way. that'd be great on my knee, as only descending hurts. see what you guys can do to rearrange the trail for me in this manner, would ya? oh, and i need it to be uphill both ways. :)

[Jaybird]

dont know abt the PA MID STATE TRAIL...but I will be hikin' on that "other trail" that meanders thru PA....the A.T.!


section hikin' Clarks Valley,PA NOBO to Greenwood Lake, NY (17-A)
Apr 24-May 8 w/ "Jigsaw"


anyone in the area...is WELCOME to come on out & hike a few days with me!:D

[simon]

Hi all, Hiked the mid state trail near Penn Roosevelt this weekend. The trail was in great shape and the weather was perfect!

[volks-man]

Hi all, Hiked the mid state trail near Penn Roosevelt this weekend. The trail was in great shape and the weather was perfect!

that was the first section i did!

step over the mountain and 'plop' your in a state park! the first picnic tables you see on the left, traveling north to south, were makeshift cots for me and a buddy for an hour or two at lunch. :cool:
some nice french speaking folks nearby were nice enough to let me boil my cup on their fire for coffee.

thats a great, hidden, little spot carved out of the wilderness!

[ki0eh]

"Flatter" stuff in the southern end? In SGL 97 much of the route lies off one side of a knife edge. Many claim the steepest part of a section is the north face of MST's summit on Martin Hill on Section 1.

[volks-man]

"Flatter" stuff in the southern end? In SGL 97 much of the route lies off one side of a knife edge. Many claim the steepest part of a section is the north face of MST's summit on Martin Hill on Section 1.

i suppose i'm needing to get out the old guide book and revisit those areas in print. :o
i seem to recall nearly an entire section below pa22 (old sec 1) that was on a railroad grade?
idk.
no matter.... the lastest plan we came up with was a quick dayhike north on section 14. i wanted to hit 14-15 but it just isn't in the cards. perhaps 15-16 next time around. though, it's hard trying to hold down something resembling a job and hiking a trail 6-7 hours away on weekends.:)

[ki0eh]

Section 5 is a rail trail. Section 4 is mostly either grassy roads in the SGL or the paved road walk up the mountain south of Williamsburg.

Section 2 and some parts of 3 have ankle-breakers that the A.T. or the Tuscarora only dream of, plus no legal camping and no water on the entire section.

Section 4 is more typical of the MST north of State College (except for the current lack of legal camping), and Section 1 despite including the high point really isn't too bad, especially if you get the new map online to see the new routes that lose a lot of the road walking described even in the 11th edition guide.

[volks-man]

i went.
i'm back. :)

i just bit the bullet and went for sect 14. i wound up being solo but had a pit crew 2 hours away in the event i couldn't finish due to knee troubles. my bail out point was to be bull road, about halfway through.

all went well and there really isn't anything to report on the trail conditions. i completed the 14 mile section in 6.75 hours. without further injury. :banana i especially liked descending the 'lions back' about midway. though very slick with dry leaves from last fall, it was a pure pleasure seeing the steep inclines on both sides veiws of nearby peaks. IDK, that part just spoke to me. :)

if i had a comment on sec 14 as a whole i suppose it would be this:
if i were a novice looking to up the ante a bit (i am), this would be the section to go for first. northbound it starts lightly and gives you little breaks between each of the harder ascents and descents in the middle. and the final mile or so is a great cool down area of some easy walking.

sidenote:
for you mst officianados:
i stumbled upon catherine's grave during the rail walk at the end. apparently she died at the age of 7 in 1872 (if i read the weathered stone right). does anyone have any input or further information concerning the grave? was it a family plot and this is the only stone left? very interesting but very sad too.

[ki0eh]

i stumbled upon catherine's grave during the rail walk at the end. apparently she died at the age of 7 in 1872 (if i read the weathered stone right). does anyone have any input or further information concerning the grave? was it a family plot and this is the only stone left? very interesting but very sad too.

Glad to hear all was OK!

The grave is something I don't know about, but I'll bump in case someone else does - and if I have time I can e-mail folks who might know more.

I do know that if the 1872 date is right, the railroad at Ramsey dates from ca. 1883 so could very well have disturbed a family plot. But I won't speculate in a vacuum any further about it.

Any photos or video of it?

[pattydivins]

Me and my friends have been hiking the section that runs through RB Winter State park for the past few weeks now. Trail has been in great shape every time, everything looks great. Went out for an over-nighter this past weekend and camped out at a campsite right near "Crocodile Spring". Anybody familiar with this campsite? It was really nice and the weather was great.

[ki0eh]

Went out for an over-nighter this past weekend and camped out at a campsite right near "Crocodile Spring". Anybody familiar with this campsite? '

Mentioned in passing here (http://www.rps.psu.edu/notebook/metric.html) :D (the guide hasn't included that observation since at least the 9th, 1995, edition though)

[Hoop Time]

'

Mentioned in passing here (http://www.rps.psu.edu/notebook/metric.html) :D (the guide hasn't included that observation since at least the 9th, 1995, edition though)

Thanks for the link, great tale about Dr. Thwaites! After meeting him last year, I can almost hear him saying that stuff in his voice.

[volks-man]

Glad to hear all was OK!

The grave is something I don't know about, but I'll bump in case someone else does - and if I have time I can e-mail folks who might know more.

I do know that if the 1872 date is right, the railroad at Ramsey dates from ca. 1883 so could very well have disturbed a family plot. But I won't speculate in a vacuum any further about it.

Any photos or video of it?

i have two or three pics of the gravesite. alas, i am not home and have no remote access to them. when i get home i will try and post them.

without my guide in front of me, the best i can say about the location is 30' off the trail between mst and the railroad/road. this is in the short area where the trail is nearly on the same elevation as and parallel to the railroad... just before camp klein. there was a newer white cross laying against the base of a tree nearby, so someone must be aware that it is there.

please express my thanks to the mst clan for maintaining sec 14 so well. :)

[volks-man]

ki0eh,
where would a guy score an older mst trail patch? i already have the retro 70's one offered by mst now. i assume there were some others offered over the years?
if there are any laying around the mst HQ let me know... i'd like to have a few different ones. i have not adorned my pack with any kind of patch yet but would like to with all of the odd mst i can find.;)
thanks!

[volks-man]

Glad to hear all was OK!

The grave is something I don't know about, but I'll bump in case someone else does - and if I have time I can e-mail folks who might know more.

I do know that if the 1872 date is right, the railroad at Ramsey dates from ca. 1883 so could very well have disturbed a family plot. But I won't speculate in a vacuum any further about it.

Any photos or video of it?
here's an attempt at posting pics..........
the sun-washed out hill in the background is the west side of the rail-trail.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii150/volks-man/PICT2443.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii150/volks-man/PICT2442.jpg

[ki0eh]

So far my e-mail inquiries have only found that the local volunteer coordinator knew the grave was there but not any further info.

I've only been around for a little more than one of the four decades of MST, I'm not sure I've seen any patches besides this one (http://www.hike-mst.org/ecom/assnpatch.htm) (with its overseer rocker, which has to be earned) and this one (http://www.hike-mst.org/ecom/trailpatch.htm) but I'm not much of a patch collector.

Dr. Thwaites is still one to indulge curiosity about things like patches and grave sites, he's not a real regular on e-mail but his phone number is still listed on here (http://www.hike-mst.org/contact.html) if you'd want to give him a call.

[volks-man]

So far my e-mail inquiries have only found that the local volunteer coordinator knew the grave was there but not any further info.

I've only been around for a little more than one of the four decades of MST, I'm not sure I've seen any patches besides this one (http://www.hike-mst.org/ecom/assnpatch.htm) (with its overseer rocker, which has to be earned) and this one (http://www.hike-mst.org/ecom/trailpatch.htm) but I'm not much of a patch collector.

Dr. Thwaites is still one to indulge curiosity about things like patches and grave sites, he's not a real regular on e-mail but his phone number is still listed on here (http://www.hike-mst.org/contact.html) if you'd want to give him a call.

thanks for the info regarding patches. though, i do not fully understand the text acompanying the assn patch.
am i to understand that the patch is only available to assigned overseers?
or that the rocker that matches the patch is only available to assigned overseers?

im not real worried about the gravesite. i thought maybe one of you fellers knew some legend that would explain it, is all. :)

neither issue is important enough for me to disturb the good Doctor with a phone call. ;)

[ki0eh]

The "Association" patch is available to everyone - it's the rocker that goes on it that's for overseers.

Tom T loves to talk to folks, he's among the most approachable of trail legends. Besides, you're famous as "that guy fron the Internet who found all those trees down on the Great Island Path" :)

[volks-man]

The "Association" patch is available to everyone - it's the rocker that goes on it that's for overseers.

Tom T loves to talk to folks, he's among the most approachable of trail legends. Besides, you're famous as "that guy fron the Internet who found all those trees down on the Great Island Path" :)

you mean these trees? :)

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii150/volks-man/PICT1780.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii150/volks-man/PICT1779.jpg

[ki0eh]

Seems that folks get frustrated for whatever reason on a section hike following PA's longest and wildest footpath, see what seems to be a short cut on the maps, then regret it: see for example this interesting trip report http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=222365

[Helios]

I was out this weekend hiking the Pine Lick trail in MD's Green Ridge Forest, which ends at the PA border. My map showed I wasn't far from the start, or what I thought was the start, of the PA Mid State Trail. So, I bopped down the road a short piece and found the trial. I thought the blazes where a bit faded and what not, but still managed to follow the trail in about a mile before deciding to head back. It was after I got home and looked at the web site did I find out the trailhead had been relocated! ha!

Question: Is there parking near the MD/PA border at this trail head? I'm interested in starting to section hike this trail, and will obviously need to pick a guide book and some maps. Now that my interest is peaked... see ya' out there!

[ki0eh]

It was after I got home and looked at the web site did I find out the trailhead had been relocated! ha!

MST folks got a blistering e-mail from some people who were looking in the printed guide and discovered that, with much more difficulty, without looking at the web site. In reply they said they didn't know to look at the web site. We found six mentions of the pending relocation in the printed guide with the web site address. Don't know what to say.


Question: Is there parking near the MD/PA border at this trail head? I'm interested in starting to section hike this trail, and will obviously need to pick a guide book and some maps. Now that my interest is peaked... see ya' out there!

Look in the "Temp Guide to Section 1" linked from http://www.hike-mst.org/guide.html for the nearest parking, on page 4. An alternative might be to use a park-and-ride lot on the north side of the Flintstone I-68 exit. The page 4 site might be less vulnerable to vandalism but one does need to ask permission at the private business. The first parking area on public land is 13.51 km north of the MD line.

By the way, the map for this area is now at the printer and will be available when the http://www.hike-mst.org/guide.html web site sells the map and guide set again

[volks-man]

Seems that folks get frustrated for whatever reason on a section hike following PA's longest and wildest footpath, see what seems to be a short cut on the maps, then regret it: see for example this interesting trip report http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=222365

yikes! thats a hard read!

first section of mst i did was old section 1 from joe hayes vista to pa322.
it wasn't that flippin' hard!

mr. ki0eh,
any insider information concerning sections north of little pine state park? the cooler weather has had me itching to start walking the trail again.

[The Solemates]

mr. ki0eh,
any insider information concerning sections north of little pine state park? the cooler weather has had me itching to start walking the trail again.

i'll be hiking again thsi year over thanksgiving if you want to join me.

[volks-man]

i'll be hiking again thsi year over thanksgiving if you want to join me.

definitly a possibility.
though, i feel like i let you down the last time. :o therefor, i'll say:
i'd like to go, but don't count on me. :cool:
with my job i never know whether i'll be able to get away untill the week of an event (usually). on the plus side, i haven't had any knee issues since last fall. i hiked 2 mst sections in the spring and feel like i can take on the world.:D

if i can get away this month or next my next is section 16 above little pine state park. as i recall you've been there already, no?
i plan to spend the night on the trail somewhere near the middle of sec 16(if the guide permits).
any pointers for this section?

[The Solemates]

definitly a possibility.
though, i feel like i let you down the last time. :o therefor, i'll say:
i'd like to go, but don't count on me. :cool:
with my job i never know whether i'll be able to get away untill the week of an event (usually). on the plus side, i haven't had any knee issues since last fall. i hiked 2 mst sections in the spring and feel like i can take on the world.:D

if i can get away this month or next my next is section 16 above little pine state park. as i recall you've been there already, no?
i plan to spend the night on the trail somewhere near the middle of sec 16(if the guide permits).
any pointers for this section?

no problem...its all good. i dont remember having any problems finding a campsite in section 16, and i remember plenty of water...so you should be fine.

[ki0eh]

I've been away, up in Maine for a week including the Big K so I don't know what I will do to the next person who bitches at me about PA rocks. :D Little Pine to Blackwell (section 16 in the current Guide) has fewer rocks and better water and camping availability than most other sections. Actively hunted so bring your orange out in another three weeks. Blackwell Hotel is still closed AFAIK and there was and is nothing else there in terms of establishments.

[volks-man]

I've been away, up in Maine for a week including the Big K so I don't know what I will do to the next person who bitches at me about PA rocks. :D Little Pine to Blackwell (section 16 in the current Guide) has fewer rocks and better water and camping availability than most other sections. Actively hunted so bring your orange out in another three weeks. Blackwell Hotel is still closed AFAIK and there was and is nothing else there in terms of establishments.

the hotel is no biggie.
'base camp' is only a couple hours away, so my ride can just go home after i get dropped.
i'm curious about cell reception in this area. i carry a phone just in case (usually hike alone). section 15 had almost no signal anywhere (when i tried to call my ride to move up my pickup time).
i'm supposin' that blackwell is not exactly a metropolis and therfor has no cell towers. :(

[ki0eh]

Verizon is possible, AT&T most likely not. (Actually that goes for just about the whole MST.)

[volks-man]

Verizon is possible, AT&T most likely not. (Actually that goes for just about the whole MST.)

all of old section 1 and most of old section 2 had great cell reception.... the knucklehead hiking with me was texting the whole time. :rolleyes:

far as september goes... looks like i'll be alright with the hunters if i read this correctly >> http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=576240&mode=2
next month i won't be so lucky.

[ki0eh]

Basically from first weekend of October until mid-January you will find others out pursuing some form of quarry but the real deal is the three days before, and the two weeks starting the Monday after, Thanksgiving (rifle bear and deer seasons). If I'm not out myself head to toe in orange with a .270 then it's a good time to be in, oh, say, Philadelphia. :)

Texting while hiking on current Sections 7, 8, 9 sounds like good fodder for a video - tap, tap, tap, CRASH, (splat). But, yeah, the toys will work when intervisible with State College, or within earshot of the Turnpike and I-80, just don't count on the rest!

[pattydivins]

So listen, I want to hike from Oct 25-28th, with a short day on the 29th. Ideally, I would like to finish the hike at Gillespie Point. I would be willing to hike either north or south, looking to do around 12ish mile days. Anybody have any recommendations?

[pattydivins]

Oh yeah - I will be litereally right next to RB Winter State Park, so it would be great if I could use this as a starting point.

[pattydivins]

And what map would I need?

[Hoop Time]

Basically from first weekend of October until mid-January you will find others out pursuing some form of quarry but the real deal is the three days before, and the two weeks starting the Monday after, Thanksgiving (rifle bear and deer seasons). If I'm not out myself head to toe in orange with a .270 then it's a good time to be in, oh, say, Philadelphia. :)

Texting while hiking on current Sections 7, 8, 9 sounds like good fodder for a video - tap, tap, tap, CRASH, (splat). But, yeah, the toys will work when intervisible with State College, or within earshot of the Turnpike and I-80, just don't count on the rest!

That is the reason I love camping at Poe Paddy to fish, or day hike. No cell phone reception assures I will actually, truly get away and won't be bothered by work or others I have no interest in talking to when I am in the woods.

Close second best reason for liking Poe Paddy is proximity to the Elk Creek Ale Works in Milheim, brewers of some very, very good beverages.

PATTY -- ki0eh is the expert, and I will defer to him. But I will mention that southbound from the RB Winter area will be "quieter." Heading north you will hear Interstate 80 at night, at least your first night out (I have not camped or hiked much further north of their than about what you want to do per day). When I was up that way two years ago I really hated how the highway noise carried several miles and even over a mountain and ruined the peaceful quiet at night in an otherwise beautiful area.

[volks-man]

Texting while hiking on current Sections 7, 8, 9 sounds like good fodder for a video - tap, tap, tap, CRASH, (splat). But, yeah, the toys will work when intervisible with State College, or within earshot of the Turnpike and I-80, just don't count on the rest!

well,
cell reception was pretty good. i called the wife to tell her about this:

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii150/volks-man/bear-1.jpg

first bear i have seen in on the trail... ever! he crossed my path abour 100 feet ahead and casually climbed out of view over a hill. cool.

from little pine to blackwell was pretty uneventful. though, i did encounter two women on horseback on the orange blazed trail (not a road) and one super-nice guy at one of the cabins you hike past.
i scored my personal best on saturday with 21 miles from 8:15 am to 7:15 pm. had to push hard to get through the gamelands before dark so i could camp. but, it made for a leisurly walk the second day to finish up! :)

[ki0eh]

So listen, I want to hike from Oct 25-28th, with a short day on the 29th. Ideally, I would like to finish the hike at Gillespie Point. I would be willing to hike either north or south, looking to do around 12ish mile days. Anybody have any recommendations?

If I read this right you'd want about a 60-70 km hike - and Gillespie Point is near the north end of Section 16 but not itself road accessible directly. Coming to Blackwell from the south, looking at the section list on http://www.hike-mst.org/guide.html (more updated than the printed guide, but the same over these sections), sections 14 through 16 add up to 79.7 km. If you lop off the south end of section 14 (PA 150) that drops an excursion through a privately owned woodlot and some road walking. So starting in downtown Woolrich should be about 70 km to Blackwell.

Coming that far from the north isn't recommended in late October because we have about an 8 km hunting season closure in Section 18 effective Oct 1-Jan 15, due to hunting clubs leasing a large tract of commercial timberland we also use. The alternative paved road route around this seasonal closure is no longer but much uglier as it passes a landfill.


well,
cell reception was pretty good. * * * i did encounter two women on horseback on the orange blazed trail (not a road)

So did you text their picture to Tom Thwaites so he could have them busted? :D

[ki0eh]

And what map would I need?

Woolrich to Blackwell is all one map, Map 311-316.

[The Solemates]

Basically from first weekend of October until mid-January you will find others out pursuing some form of quarry but the real deal is the three days before, and the two weeks starting the Monday after, Thanksgiving (rifle bear and deer seasons). If I'm not out myself head to toe in orange with a .270 then it's a good time to be in, oh, say, Philadelphia. :)



yea no kidding. every year thats when i think it is a good time to hike this trail :) they love to see me coming, especially early in the morning, 'disturbing' the woods :eek:

[pattydivins]

Awesome ki0eh, this sounds like an ideal hike. I am going to pick up that map. How is the water along this section? Will sources be obvious along the trail?

I know this might be a bit of a stretch, but do you know of any good campsites along the way?

Thank you much

[harryfred]

Considering options for Thanksgiving week hike looking at northern sections as I want to camp and not come off the trail every day. Wife would like me home for Thanksgiving dinner. so Sunday through Wed. is what I'm looking at. I could even take off that Sat. Anybody want to team up and we can park vehicles at both trail heads I am open to other suggestions. My maps and guide book are less than 1 year old.

[ki0eh]

Awesome ki0eh, this sounds like an ideal hike. I am going to pick up that map. How is the water along this section? Will sources be obvious along the trail?

I know this might be a bit of a stretch, but do you know of any good campsites along the way?


Water is fairly abundant in general but it's been dry - volks-man might be able to help with current conditions.

The guide BOOK does note some campsite locations. It might also be helpful to scan http://www.neohbackpackingclub.com/search.aspx - click "trip log" and enter "mid state" to get some thoughts from the NE Ohio Backpacking Club - they've sectioned the entire trail except for the very newest relocations (but they also skipped the side trail to the view looking down on Gillespie Point from the north :D )

[volks-man]

Considering options for Thanksgiving week hike looking at northern sections as I want to camp and not come off the trail every day. Wife would like me home for Thanksgiving dinner. so Sunday through Wed. is what I'm looking at. I could even take off that Sat. Anybody want to team up and we can park vehicles at both trail heads I am open to other suggestions. My maps and guide book are less than 1 year old.

though i am flaky regarding plans more than a week or two in the future....
let me express my interest in hiking sections north of section 16 (blackwell). i would not need to go off-trail for lodging or supplies for 3+ days @ 12-15 miles/day.
please note that i have also expressed interest in teaming up with 'solemates' around thanksgiving.
i won't know till a week before at most if i could make either plan work. though, if one fails i still may be able to swing the other.........

[volks-man]

Water is fairly abundant in general but it's been dry - volks-man might be able to help with current conditions.



what i can tell you guys about section 16 (from little pine state park to blackwell) is that most of the springs and a few of the smaller 'runs' mentioned in the guide book and maps are dried up.
that been said, there are still plenty of streams/runs with enough flow to keep you wet. my capacity was about 30oz and i felt like a fool for carrying that much for 7-8 miles (heavy!) as there were plenty of places to keep my 12oz bottle full.;)

[ki0eh]

The new color Map 301-306, covering I-68 to US 22, or the entire Everett Region of MST, is now in stock! Order it now – use this direct link http://www.hike-mst.org/ecom/map301306.htm (http://www.hike-mst.org/ecom/map301306.htm)

This completes the transition to fully metricated and full color maps (although Tioga Region maps are still not printed, those still need to be downloaded from http://www.hike-mst.org/guide.html (http://www.hike-mst.org/guide.html) )

[pattydivins]

Change of plans and I want to get out there this weekend to hike this section. Think it is a big deal that I won't have a map? Any way somebody can send me a map ASAP (before thursday)? I will pay you for shipping costs.

Is this section of trail nice? Difficult? Scenic? I am pumped to get to Gillespie point at the end.

Are there any shuttle services or any reliable cab services I can hook up with?

[pattydivins]

Also where do I find the trail in Woolrich?

[ki0eh]

I don't think the guy who mails out the maps is in England this week, so you could try to e-mail (secretary@hike-mst.org) him to see if he could send it quickly. Can't offer any guarantees. Or maybe call a nearby REI, EMS, or Campmor to see if they have stock (but they'll most likely have the $38 Set, rather than just the $9 map of that section).

The MST follows the main drag (Park Ave.) in Woolrich, directly in front of the outlet store which is likely the most reasonable drop-off point.

Here is the shuttle list (http://www.hike-mst.org/shuttle.html) - but I think the information for Big Pine (the closest on that list to Woolrich) is garbled somehow so might need to search them another way. Check also Rock River & Trail in Lock Haven, and Pine Creek Outfitters (a big outfit).

[ki0eh]

Is this section of trail nice? Difficult? Scenic? I am pumped to get to Gillespie point at the end.


Here is a recent trip report from Little Pine north, going the other way: http://www.backpacker.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=682107219;t=9991142496 - and adding going to Woolrich is 3 more full climbs out of the PA Grand Canyon to that.

Here's someone's shot of Gillespie Point (despite the info I don't think it was taken in February): http://www.flickr.com/photos/mountaintrekker/4343613009/in/photostream/

[volks-man]

Change of plans and I want to get out there this weekend to hike this section. Think it is a big deal that I won't have a map? Any way somebody can send me a map ASAP (before thursday)? I will pay you for shipping costs.

Is this section of trail nice? Difficult? Scenic? I am pumped to get to Gillespie point at the end.

Are there any shuttle services or any reliable cab services I can hook up with?

hhmmm..
i wonder if he made it up there this weekend?

if not but you still plan to go later, then i'll say that maps are overrated. i only carry mine so i can communicate with my ride if/when i were to be injured and couldn't get to my pickup point.
the trail guide, on the other hand is very usefull. i use it to gauge my progress/adjust my pace accordingly and also so i can plan how much water to carry from point to point based on the watering holes mentioned (i don't want to over-carry).

[ki0eh]

Usually people complain more about the guide than the maps so that's a good viewpoint to keep in mind - guess it ought to get printed again when it runs out. Seems folks split down the middle on whether the old B&W maps are better than the new color ones.

[volks-man]

Usually people complain more about the guide than the maps so that's a good viewpoint to keep in mind - guess it ought to get printed again when it runs out. Seems folks split down the middle on whether the old B&W maps are better than the new color ones.

of note:
i do not carry the whole guidebook with me.
i squash it down on my copier and copy the pages i need (using both sides) so i can reduce my carry weight. i color-photocopy just the area of map i need as well.

and, don't get me wrong, i like the maps just fine, but i don't think you absolutely NEED them to hike the trail.


how would one update the text in the next guidebook? i found things in the previous guide that were simply outdated (like flat fire tower being accessable), and am still finding little odds and ends (like clear-cuts and burnsites that no longer show) that could still have been updated in the newest version.

[ki0eh]

how would one update the text in the next guidebook? i found things in the previous guide that were simply outdated (like flat fire tower being accessable), and am still finding little odds and ends (like clear-cuts and burnsites that no longer show) that could still have been updated in the newest version.

E-mail particular observations to gis@hike-mst.org - the 12th edition is being worked on now. So it's time to take out references like "cross tracks" that were abandoned in 1988...

(And Little Flat tower WAS open when the 11th edition was being compiled... :D )

[volks-man]

E-mail particular observations to gis@hike-mst.org - the 12th edition is being worked on now. So it's time to take out references like "cross tracks" that were abandoned in 1988...

(And Little Flat tower WAS open when the 11th edition was being compiled... :D )

seriously? i was there before the 11th came out and it was fenced off tight. this was october 07. we were really looking forward to climbing it after reading about the view in the 10th edition.

i suppose i should have asked...... how long did it take to compile the 11th edition? :)

btw: we might have accidentaly climbed the tower on greenwood spur even though it was off limits.

ranger station at little flat:

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii150/volks-man/Camping007Medium.jpg

view of hiking buddy from greenwood tower.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii150/volks-man/PICT0159Medium.jpg

hazy view from greenwood tower.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii150/volks-man/PICT0154Medium.jpg

[ki0eh]

i suppose i should have asked...... how long did it take to compile the 11th edition? :)


It was too damned long! Honestly the view wasn't that great from Little Flat due to the spruces being higher than the tower even 10 years ago. I can only assume the nearby "Roman" tower was once more impressive too.

Speaking of the 10th edition, the view from its cover is now too grown up to be reproduced. I understand that's high on the list to fix next March - not enough ppl came out this March.

[The Solemates]

headed out again in a couple weeks. i'll be hiking from waterville to where the trail crosses I-80 this time nobo. shuttle and everything all set up if anyone wants to join me.

[volks-man]

headed out again in a couple weeks. i'll be hiking from waterville to where the trail crosses I-80 this time nobo. shuttle and everything all set up if anyone wants to join me.

waterville toward I80 = southbound, no?
i have already completed that entire run, so count me out.

when you get to 'great island indian path' a few miles before ravensburg SP, snap some pics of all the trees that formerly crossed the trail.
there should be dozens of them cut off along the edge. i am interested in seeing how the volunteers did in clearing it all out. it must have taken days!
also, if you are in to old grave sites...
the one i was asking about is just a klik or two south of camp klien, south of ramsey where mst follows along the railtrail on the same elevation. just look left, between mst and the rail trail.

[The Solemates]

Just got in from another good hike along the MST!

The weather was the warmest I've ever had while hiking over Thanksgiving week in PA. I hiked in a tee-shirt every day. It was around 50 every day and around 30 at night. Very pleasant hiking weather (although I do look forward to the snow every year).

I also did not have quite the exposure to the hunters while hiking this section as I've had in years past, probably due to the sections I hiked, which incorporated a good bit of road walking. I enjoyed not being the target that I have felt like in years past.

The trail from I-80 northbound to little pine state park was some of the most rugged I've hiked of the MST so far. There were a lot of ups and downs. Actually, it was more like downs then ups. The trail primarily follows ridges, but in these sections descended very steeply in places only to cross some landmark and then climb back up to the adjacent ridge. These sections gave my knees quite the trouble. The foot high pile of leaves on the trail made it difficult to keep my balance. On several occasions I just 'glissaded' down on the leaves. But my knee pain was also probably due to the fact that I think I pushed myself a little too hard during this trip, trying to make more miles per day than was necessary. Not sure why I do that sometimes - just depends on my hiking mood I guess. Other trips I take it easy and its more of a 'camping' trip.

Despite it being rugged, there was one disappointment: I do not remember a time AT ALL from I-80 literally to several miles past Woolrich (over 35 trail miles) that I did not hear traffic - either from I-80, 880, 44, 220, etc. It certainly did not feel too remote due to this.

The trail through these sections was well marked and well maintained. I did lose the trail once descending into Ravensburg State Park. Consequently, I had some trouble finding it again in the morning when I left. I think this was partly my fault as it was dusk as I was hiking in, but it could be marked a little better as you approach the park northbound.

There was plenty of water at all the sources, as it rained all last week. It spit on me each morning for all of 5 minutes, but not even enough to get me wet.

All and all - a good trip - Cant wait to hit Pisgah in NC for another trip we have lined up!

[speedster]

Am planning on doing a weekend trip next weekend from Landrus coal mine to PA-NY border. Just wondering if south shore of Cowanesque Lake was mowed during the Tioga Mid-State Trail maintenance weekend. I was up there last weekend, and it looked like April's torrential rains really did a number on it. We would really love to check out the Nelson Ghost Town. Thanks.

[ki0eh]

We have more of that mowed as of end of last week than we ever have. Also spent last Saturday and Sunday chain-sawing out downtown Landrus, it was hit hard. Curious to see how it goes. 2 pipelines were under construction across the trail, one on either side of US 6, but I think both are actually across now.

[speedster]

That sounds great....thanks for all the work you do. I was up two weekends ago and hoped you guys would hit that area. Just checked out Sand Run Falls this past weekend...what a neat spot!

[speedster]

Also, any suggestions on how to handle water? With the gas drilling in the area, is it even safe to attempt to purify water? Or should we just carry our own the whole way?

[ki0eh]

We are in the process of relocating the trail northbound from Sand Run Falls - in fact on Sat I carried a 60# bag of Sakrete across the top of the falls to help secure two of the new signs. We didn't have enough help to get all of the blazing changed yet, unfortunately, and so far the relocation dead ends so you might as well follow the current route (which is in part unblazed, download the maps and guide changes off the web site).

It's not likely that anything that might be unseen in the water from drilling would kill you as quickly as dehydration or bacteria, but I would certainly stay away from anything that was bubbly or salty or dark and turbid. All of the streams between Landrus and the state line do flow from farm, residential, and yes drilling areas toward the trail (yes including Sand Run), other than the headwaters of Ives and Stephenhouse runs MST crosses high in SGL 37. What flows out of the mountain at Landrus isn't gas impacted but is old mine impacted - see http://landrus.blogspot.com/

[speedster]

Where is the trail being relocated to? Is it still going to go along the creek north of Sand Run Falls?

[ki0eh]

We are moving it over on to the north half of the loop of the "official" Sand Run Falls trail so there is a place to park off of Arnot Road on public land, then north along Dyke Creek. But that's as far as is cleared out so far so we're not changing the blazes on the SRF trail back to orange yet.

[ki0eh]

The gas pipelines across the trail just south of Hills Creek SP (section 19) and just south of PA 660 (north end of section 18) have both been stabilized. The Wimbrough Campsite was not easily accessible for a time this summer, but can now be reached and used again. Also there was a yawning gap on section 19 north of Orebed Rd where a farm lane culvert washed out in early summer storms but that is again passable.

Unfortunately a 3rd pipeline is now under construction north of Antrim on section 18 at the northerly crossing of SR 3009. Southbounders can turn left on SR 3009, walk the road until the pipeline crosses, then turn right at the next logging lane to return to the trail - about 2 km, but not as bad as walking the road all the way through downtown Antrim. Northbound is a little less well defined but you can turn right on a lane after passing through a wide open area to reach SR 3009 before the pipeline crossing. Hopefully this can be cleared up and restored in a few weeks.

Sand Run Falls trail is partially re-blazed, and also now blazed over to the new trail in Dyke Creek. Old trail along Babb Creek north of the falls is not browned out yet but the May storms left a multi-stemmed maple and a couple of smaller blowdowns across it.

[ki0eh]

The Dyke Creek relocation north from Sand Run Falls has been completed. Guide is up on http://www.hike-mst.org/guide.html and map should follow soon. Section 18 and the MST are over 6 km longer with the relocated and new footpath in State Forest and the unblazed roads to hook up with where trail continues north past the Wimbrough Campsite.

[ki0eh]

5 years, 500 km: http://www.tiogapublishing.com/features/the_marketplace/years-kilometers/article_8a2159f8-dedc-11e0-93ed-001cc4c03286.html