I started a thread in the hammock forum about my trip on Pennsylvania's Mid State Trail: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39002

Here are a few more pics.

It appears that, as advertised, you encountered more bears than people...

thanks for the photos!

this trail is a toss up between a few others for our annual PA thanksgiving hike.

so talk me into it...why should i do this one over the:

LoyalSock Trail
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry...loyalsock.aspx

west rim trail
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/Forestry...g/westrim.aspx

allegheny front trail
http://www.alleghenyfronttrail.info/

chuck keiper trail
http://www.pahikes.com/ChuckKeiperTrail/default.asp

Here's a previous thread: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7710

It appears that, as advertised, you encountered more bears than people...

Papa bear, mama bear, and baby bear too!

thanks for the photos!

this trail is a toss up between a few others for our annual PA thanksgiving hike.

so talk me into it...why should i do this one over the:

LoyalSock Trail
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry...loyalsock.aspx

west rim trail
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/Forestry...g/westrim.aspx

allegheny front trail
http://www.alleghenyfronttrail.info/

chuck keiper trail
http://www.pahikes.com/ChuckKeiperTrail/default.asp

Some similarities to them all:
-No shelters
-Maintenance perhaps more variable or less intensive than the A.T.
-All are on lands open to hunting.

MST, Loyalsock, West Rim are all linear, AFT and CKT are loops. MST is over 300 miles; Loyalsock, about 60; West Rim, 30.

Some parts of MST and Loyalsock pass through private land and/or State Game Lands where camping is not allowed. Also PA State Game Lands require wearing orange for the month bracketing Thanksgiving which is a good idea also on the others that time of year. A couple of segments of MST in the far north on private land are closed in November-December to avoid hunting conflicts.

You can make a loop of the east end of the Loyalsock - Google "Loyalsock Link Loop" for info.

West Rim Trail is more popular than the others, and Loyalsock is more popular than the other others. WRT has relatively little elevation change compared to the others.

The southern half of MST ranges from rocky to ROCKY. Rocks are easier to deal with and water more plentiful on the northern half of MST. MST has many different views. These guys have some photo albums of the southernmost (perhaps most difficult) MST sections: http://albums.phanfare.com/backpack

WRT has many aspects of the same view. :) Not hard to find many photos online of these.

AFT, Loyalsock, and MST have notable streamside segments.

Whether any of them is "better" than the others depends very much on what you're looking for.

These guys have some photo albums of the southernmost (perhaps most difficult) MST sections: http://albums.phanfare.com/backpack



I did the Laurel Highlands Trail last year. I like to do a new trail every year.

I did the Laurel Highlands Trail last year. I like to do a new trail every year.

The front page of their web site is a bit confusing but their photos are amazing. Direct links to their MST albums if this works: http://albums.phanfare.com/4894106/2160297 and http://albums.phanfare.com/4894106/2160387#imageID=31035689

I've done a few of the PA trails, all are great. Another one wroth mentioning is the Black Forest Trail. It's a 42-45 mile loop with many connector trails to cut it short if desired. The loop makes logistics easy. It's more rugged than the West rim trail. Almost Catskill lie climbs in places just less rock and not as much gain. If you not in trail condition its a trough one.

I've done a few of the PA trails, all are great. Another one wroth mentioning is the Black Forest Trail. It's a 42-45 mile loop with many connector trails to cut it short if desired. The loop makes logistics easy. It's more rugged than the West rim trail. Almost Catskill lie climbs in places just less rock and not as much gain. If you not in trail condition its a trough one.

have you done the baker trail? if so, how was it?

The front page of their web site is a bit confusing but their photos are amazing. Direct links to their MST albums if this works: http://albums.phanfare.com/4894106/2160297 and http://albums.phanfare.com/4894106/2160387#imageID=31035689

Tim took his albums away from public view for some reason unknown to me. Greatly missed!

However we now have a substitute of sorts - a fellow from CT sectioned the northern half and the southernmost quarter, and his pix are now posted to: http://picasaweb.google.com/hike.pix

That leaves the near-south quarter of MST uncovered, however this web page makes up for it: http://www.pahikes.com/trails/midstateSC_overview.asp

we've decided to do some of this southern half...looking forward to it!

As I learn more about this trail, I amazed at how many different organizations come together to make it what it is. I'm sure there may be, the normal, human nature flaws embedded in the dynamics, like power and envy, but the final product is an impressive trail. I'm not behind the scenes so all I see is the success and cooperation.

I can't wait to experience the MST. Sounds like thorough planning is in order.
I'm researching to maybe plan a 3 or 4 day section for January. (Waiting on my delivery of section maps from KTA first.) I should have ordered the guide too.

You might also check out the Quehanna Trail in north central PA. It's a 70 mile loop, but can be broken up into shorter east and west loops by a "cross connector" trail through the center. It goes through the Quehanna Wild Area. Heed the "Wear orange" if you go, because deer rifle season opens the Monday after Thanksgiving and the woods will be filled with hunters. You can start and end at Parker Dam State Park where the showers might still be on in the campground.

I did the Laurel Highlands Trail last year. I like to do a new trail every year.


Cookerhiker mentioned this trail to me and I may try it come spring. Did you like it??

Cookerhiker mentioned this trail to me and I may try it come spring. Did you like it??

yes, it was a nice little trail. the scenery was mostly forest land with not a lot of vistas, but there were a few here and there. but it was a great place to go for solitude. unfortunately i hiked during prime hunting season, so i saw lots of hunters, but if you were to hike outside of season i am certain you would go all 70 miles without ever seeing another person.

by the way, we're hiking from poe paddy sobo down towards 22 on the MST next week. does anyone have hunting season dates for this section? a website with these dates?

i've got my blaze orange already packed...

by the way, we're hiking from poe paddy sobo down towards 22 on the MST next week. does anyone have hunting season dates for this section? a website with these dates?


http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=460&q=161003 is the official website

You will be in WMU 4D.

Good luck and have fun!

You might also check out the Quehanna Trail in north central PA. It's a 70 mile loop, but can be broken up into shorter east and west loops by a "cross connector" trail through the center. It goes through the Quehanna Wild Area. Heed the "Wear orange" if you go, because deer rifle season opens the Monday after Thanksgiving and the woods will be filled with hunters. You can start and end at Parker Dam State Park where the showers might still be on in the campground.
Now you got me interested in wading through that idea. There seems to be a good chunk of material on the web. Loops are a logistical Godsend when you have to go solo. Thanks for the tip!

The new guide and map set is finally printed and back in stock!

The guide describes the whole way from MD to NY. Two new color waterproof maps (similar to the KTA A.T. maps) cover the older and more popular sections in the middle, US 22 north to Blackwell.

Black-and-white waterproof maps cover US 22 south to MD. Download maps for Blackwell north crossing Tioga County to NY. (There's still some work to do to improve/secure parts of these extensions so color maps should follow once the route stabilizes. Changes to the guide and additional temporary maps will be posted to the MSTA web site until printings come out.)

Buy individual pieces or the whole set from MSTA: http://www.hike-mst.org/guide.html Other sources should be re-stocking by spring '09.

:-? Wow ! MD to NY ?

I love this trail, used to live in State College.
I always hated the maps. New maps are out and it's grown...that's great
The MST is what got long distance hiking into my blood.
I have hundreds of photos of this trail and some show my gear at the time..:rolleyes: oh my, things have changed!

Bears, gnats, rattlesnakes, porcupines, rocks, dry ridges and no people !

did 45 miles of the MST over thanksgiving and used the new guide thanks to ki0eh! thanks to all who put so much work into making the guide and maps up to date! the guide worked great for assisting in our walk. the section of trail around state college we did was very well blazed...excellent trail!

I was wondering how y'uns made out. Did you do a TR anywhere?

here is a video of a typical trail on PA's MST.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmSG0bd4EPA

there are plenty more MST vids there. some are set to music. :cool: http://www.youtube.com/user/volksmanhiking (http://www.youtube.com/user/volksmanhiking)
one also depicts my wife climbing the '1000 steps' near mount union PA. (lame music due to copyrights... it was set to stairway to heaven:mad:)



enjoy.:)

The state is going to stop taking care of this or already has. The Bald Eagle state forest portion kicked my ***

The state is going to stop taking care of this or already has.

Huh, what? The Mid State Trail Association http://www.hike-mst.org is still very much in business. Soon there will be an announcement of a 40th anniversary brew at http://www.elkcreekcafe.net/ More volunteers are certainly needed, in September there will be an opportunity to come out with a group in Bald Eagle forest, based at Poe Paddy: http://www.kta-hike.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=37

Just wanted to let everyone know about a 40th Anniversary Party for the Mid State Trail. The party will be held on July 12th from 2:00 - 4:00 PM at the Elk Creek Cafe + Aleworks http://www.elkcreekcafe.com/ in Millheim, PA. The Elk Creek will also be debuting their newest beer at the event: the Mid State Trail Ale. All are invited for good times and good beer.

Just wanted to let everyone know about a 40th Anniversary Party for the Mid State Trail. The party will be held on July 12th from 2:00 - 4:00 PM at the Elk Creek Cafe + Aleworks http://www.elkcreekcafe.com/ in Millheim, PA. The Elk Creek will also be debuting their newest beer at the event: the Mid State Trail Ale. All are invited for good times and good beer.
a pint of 'double rainbow' and a burger (man, they are good!) would have been fine with me.....
the mid state ale is a bonus! now, what will i be doing on the 12th that i will have to get out of to be in millheim?:cool:

MST is featured in the Summer 2009 issue of "American Hiker" magazine.

(And the beer party for the 40th anniversary is this weekend!)

MST is featured in the Summer 2009 issue of "American Hiker" magazine.

(And the beer party for the 40th anniversary is this weekend!)
how'd the party go?
anyone get arrested?;)

alas, it wasn't in the cards for me and the wife to make the 6+ hour drive on the 12th. i had wanted to thank you nice folks in person for keeping my trail going like you do (beer was a motive too). i hope it was a blast!

we're headed back for another 5 days along in a month. we are going to do from the NY border sobo. I know there are a smatterin' of roadwalks in this area, but according to the mst website we should be good to go.

does anyone have any further updates that we need to know about?

how'd the party go?


I heard it was good. I couldn't go, but I did observe that Dr. Thwaites survived because I saw him and Barbara at the ATC biennial meeting the following weekend.

we're headed back for another 5 days along in a month. we are going to do from the NY border sobo. I know there are a smatterin' of roadwalks in this area, but according to the mst website we should be good to go.

does anyone have any further updates that we need to know about?

The privately owned RV's Mt Top is a much cooler midsummer location than the Corps of Engineers campgrounds either side of it. Those folks are having a tough time making a go on the mountain so you will be most appreciated, too.

There is a privately owned free campsite a little bit south of PA Route 660. Location is shown on the 4/09 revision of Map T19. Firewood's cut and stacked. As of a couple of weeks ago the landowner said no one's yet signed the register. I've been away for weeks so have been unable to generate the newest temporary guide to go with those currently posted maps.

It's also been tough to keep ahead of annual growth this year. Most of the Cowanesque Lake area was mowed a couple of weeks ago - at that time it showed little trace of having been mowed end of May/beginning of June. Most of the north end yet sees so little use that annual growth could make wayfinding difficult, although most of the really bad areas have been mowed at least once. A few spots get bad nettles too.

Detailed observations good or ill are appreciated, if you don't feel like sounding like the toilet paper guy you can PM them to me.

Huh, what? The Mid State Trail Association http://www.hike-mst.org is still very much in business. Soon there will be an announcement of a 40th anniversary brew at http://www.elkcreekcafe.net/ More volunteers are certainly needed, in September there will be an opportunity to come out with a group in Bald Eagle forest, based at Poe Paddy: http://www.kta-hike.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=37

I have tried two or three times to check out the brewpub while at Poe Paddy fishing. Each time the darned place has been closed on Monday or Tuesday.

As for the trail and the work party, I am hoping to get up for that. I did a short piece south of Poe Paddy in the spring and it badly needs maintenance, particularly remarking the blazes. This trail is not a worn footpath to anywhere near the extent the AT is and without blazes it would be easy to get off track. A couple times in that short section I found myself searching and searching for the next orange blaze to know where I was going.

Also did the rail trail portion north of Poe Paddy with Cookie Monster last weekend. A very beautiful, though undemanding stroll along Penns Creek. That section is pretty low maintenance and prob. needs little to no work in September.

If things work as planned, I will get to Poe Paddy early Friday to fish a little in the evening before the maintenance work Saturday.

I just passed on another report received on e-mail (even more recently than yours) about the area between US 322 and Poe Paddy. I'm planning to be on the work party too, that stretch badly needed work in March this year when I did some of it so surely needs more now. There has been a good bit of work south of US 322 but conditions change drastically as soon as you come out of the culvert.

we're headed back for another 5 days along in a month. we are going to do from the NY border sobo. I know there are a smatterin' of roadwalks in this area, but according to the mst website we should be good to go.

does anyone have any further updates that we need to know about?

Just remembered, here's a trip report from another site of the far north end: http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8316

thanks for the update ki0eh. we'll post upon our return. if you think of anything else in the meantime, please let us know. we plan to hike from the border south to blackwell.

I'd recommend unless you're a total blaze purist, wandering off the orange blazes for the last 2 km onto the entry into Blackwell taken by these folks: http://www.pahikes.com/trails/midstate11.asp (which was the intended route if you want to be totally absolutely pure anyway ;) ). The final vista here was proclaimed by Tom Thwaites himself to be the best on the MST system, perhaps not all will agree but that's certainly an authority.

Check out the exotic animals at the Tioga Hunting Preserve. The lone Amererican Bison was an intimidating presence when I walked by a few years ago. There was a huge guard dog in a pasture right just south of the entrance to Mt. Top Campground, you might want to stay out of that pasture. Don't camp at Sand Run Falls on a weekend or you may have many neighbors. Of course, no late summer walk through Pennsylvania will be complete without stinging nettles, which may be found along some runs just south of Lake Hammond. The three lakes are all nice: nice walk around miles of Cowanesque, Lake Hammond has a camp store next to the trail, and there is a nice isolated sitting bench in the woods at one end of Hills Creek Lake with a great view looking down the lake. Oh, and there are "primitive" walk-in campsites near the trail on the north shore of Cowanesque.

Check out the exotic animals at the Tioga Hunting Preserve. The lone Amererican Bison was an intimidating presence when I walked by a few years ago.

MST's been relocated (April 2009) away from that fence (including digging up the "Cowanesque Lake 6 km" sign and re-planting it), but one can blue-blaze over through campground property to see one corner of the preserve from where that sign used to be.

There was a huge guard dog in a pasture right just south of the entrance to Mt. Top Campground, you might want to stay out of that pasture.

Still there according to the TR linked below:

...here's a trip report from another site of the far north end: http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8316 (http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8316)

But that area's easy enough to detour on gravel roads paralleling MST to the west.

Don't camp at Sand Run Falls on a weekend or you may have many neighbors.

Yep, that's the official loose dog campsite of Tioga County. Nice to see though.

Possible alternatives are a clearing 2.5 km north, just barely within State Forest land; and the bottom of the Nickel Run Falls side trail (past the falls, onto the railroad bed) 5 km trail-south. This blog post (http://landrus.blogspot.com/2005/07/abutments-mossy-waterfallspart-2.html) shows the locality of the second option. (It was supposed to be on the main trail but at the last minute wasn't due to a bureaucratic snafu.)

Just got off the trail today. we had beautiful weather the whole time and really enjoyed ourselves. did ny - blackwell sobo.

more southern portions were more scenic and well maintained. we especially like the stony fork area. the northernmost sections skirted around private land and were overgrown. thankfully, the trail was very well blazed. thanks to ki0eh and all the trail maintainers!!! we would have lost the trail many times if not for it being so well blazed (actually we did lose it many times, but were able to find it again by backtracking to the last blaze).

the only portion that was nearly unbearable was the few miles just south of the antrim road crossing. we got all cut-up trying to follow the trail (ripped my pants to shreds), and ended up bushwhacking back to the road and followed it all the way to 287. some portions in this section were chest high with blackberry thorns with no evidence of a trail. we did get about 3-4 cups of fresh blackberries for our efforts though. we talked to some people in town who said the hunting club will not allow people in there (I think he meant ATVs) to keep it cleared.

our feet were constantly wet in the northern sections since we were always walking through knee-high grass that did not seem to dry out during the day. fresh corn was abundant (but dont tell the farmers) although we only took the cobs that had already fallen to the ground.

regardless of the time of year you hike, if you plan to hike the MST bring pants. we were thankful for them many times even though they made us sweat. between the high grass, thorns, stinging nettles, etc, pants are really a necessity. you will be bushwhacking at times.

the road walks were hard on the feet, but gave us decent countryside views. we got tired of the road walks at times, enjoyed them other times.

other than that, the trail was in decent shape. looking forward to the next section hike of the MST.

Appreciate the report!

It's especially sad in a year like this to know that we have a walk behind DR mower in the Tioga Region MST, but not yet the volunteers to keep it in use. The usual type of volunteer overseer just doesn't seem to be interested in that type of work to remove annual growth. Would appreciate any ideas on how to find folks to do recreational mowing - even once a year (blackberries) to three times a year (hay) would do wonders to help. There seem to be plenty of folks in rural areas who seem to get into mowing, they just don't seem to be hiker volunteers.

Until then, I certainly never go out without wearing long pants. ;)

Did you use the new campsite? (in private land south of Route 6)

Appreciate the report!

It's especially sad in a year like this to know that we have a walk behind DR mower in the Tioga Region MST, but not yet the volunteers to keep it in use. The usual type of volunteer overseer just doesn't seem to be interested in that type of work to remove annual growth. Would appreciate any ideas on how to find folks to do recreational mowing - even once a year (blackberries) to three times a year (hay) would do wonders to help. There seem to be plenty of folks in rural areas who seem to get into mowing, they just don't seem to be hiker volunteers.

Until then, I certainly never go out without wearing long pants. ;)

Did you use the new campsite? (in private land south of Route 6)

re: volunteers for mowing, I've got no good ideas. i would certainly volunteer if i didnt live 700 miles away :)

we did use wimbrough campsite, and were thankful for it since there is really no other option for this section. you have to do a bit of planning your campspots for this trail due to the amount of private land you skirt around, which I was not used to. I usually just lay down and sleep when i get tired :) i can pretty much sleep anywhere, but i didnt want to lay me down somewhere i was not welcome.

thanks again for all you do!

kioeh,
noticed my comments to you on blazes in the mst summer newsletter.
you are a man of your word, in regards to your forwarding my comments. i appreciate all you and the other volunteers do for/on the MST.

THANK YOU ALL!

the only portion that was nearly unbearable was the few miles just south of the antrim road crossing. we got all cut-up trying to follow the trail (ripped my pants to shreds), and ended up bushwhacking back to the road and followed it all the way to 287. some portions in this section were chest high with blackberry thorns with no evidence of a trail. we did get about 3-4 cups of fresh blackberries for our efforts though. we talked to some people in town who said the hunting club will not allow people in there (I think he meant ATVs) to keep it cleared.

I passed on this report to the volunteer overseer assigned to that section. He told me today that 4 folks went through and cleared it last Thursday. Thanks again for the info - we do need to hear things like this, otherwise we could assume all is well!

I passed on this report to the volunteer overseer assigned to that section. He told me today that 4 folks went through and cleared it last Thursday. Thanks again for the info - we do need to hear things like this, otherwise we could assume all is well!

awesome. thanks!

ki0eh .. (or anybody else) ... you planning to go up to Poe Paddy the 19th-20th for the trail maintenance work party?

EDIT: NEVER MIND! Shoulda read the rest of page 2 of the thread.

OK, now I do have a question: Do they plan to camp in one of the group tenting areas, or should I go ahead and reserve myself a site?

Typically for these things there will be a sign leading to a group tenting area. It is best to register in advance with the trip leader, in this case Dr. Thwaites - see here (http://www.kta-hike.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=37) for contact info.

Thanks ... have his contact info already. I'm hoping to make it, but still waiting to see if I can get away that weekend, and may not know till a day or two before. I'm sure they can always find something for an extra pair of hands to do.

I'm sure they can always find something for an extra pair of hands to do.

YES, very much so! Hope you can make it.

I think my MST hiking partner may have to back out on me this year due to work (but I also think he's halfway using the excuse that we've already hiked enough trail this year).

Anyone interested in joining me? I'd like to do a section between blackwell and poe paddy...not sure of logistics just yet. might even consider doing the whole section. I'm thinking of Sat 21 Nov - Wed 25 Nov. let me know.

That is black bear season, make sure you are wearing orange. (kindly reminder)

Two videos shot on the MST are now posted on PennLive.com ... one shows a Dr. Thwaites bridge (http://videos.pennlive.com/patriot-news/2009/10/building_bridges.html)being built, the other is more an appeal for folks to volunteer (http://videos.pennlive.com/patriot-news/2009/10/nothing_natural.html) to help maintain the trails

I think my MST hiking partner may have to back out on me this year due to work (but I also think he's halfway using the excuse that we've already hiked enough trail this year).

Anyone interested in joining me? I'd like to do a section between blackwell and poe paddy...not sure of logistics just yet. might even consider doing the whole section. I'm thinking of Sat 21 Nov - Wed 25 Nov. let me know.

without my mst guide in front of me....
where is blackwell? i have completed sections 7 - 12, and therefor hiked through poe paddy already.

i am interested in hiking with someone new, the knucklehead i hiked with previously is currently unavailable and solo can get boring. my wife prefers that i go with someone anyways :).

though i am almost never able to make plans that far out (work issues) and most likely would not be able to go i am interested in the idea!
v

That is black bear season, make sure you are wearing orange. (kindly reminder)

yep...we go this time every year. they love us :)

without my mst guide in front of me....
where is blackwell? i have completed sections 7 - 12, and therefor hiked through poe paddy already.

i am interested in hiking with someone new, the knucklehead i hiked with previously is currently unavailable and solo can get boring. my wife prefers that i go with someone anyways :).

though i am almost never able to make plans that far out (work issues) and most likely would not be able to go i am interested in the idea!
v

well, i have not completed poe paddy to blackwell (which correspond to sections 10-16 i think), and then also have not completed the southern sections down towards MD. i would be up for anything in these sections. we could maybe do sections 1-6 or less since you havent done those. like the kindly reminder above :) we would also need to check the maps. there are certain areas that we would not be able to hike through due to closures during hunting season.

we'll keep in touch.

www.hike-mst.org

Regarding Blackwell - Great hiking near there - but the Blackwell Hotel that used to offer fine food and cold beer, which we considered noteworthy enough to serve as a section break between sections 16 and 17 in the new guide, has been shut down for maybe over a year now. Hoping it will reopen, but not looking good since a "reopening soon" sign seems to have disappeared according to local reports.

yep...we go this time every year. they love us :)



well, i have not completed poe paddy to blackwell (which correspond to sections 10-16 i think), and then also have not completed the southern sections down towards MD. i would be up for anything in these sections. we could maybe do sections 1-6 or less since you havent done those. like the kindly reminder above :) we would also need to check the maps. there are certain areas that we would not be able to hike through due to closures during hunting season.

we'll keep in touch.

www.hike-mst.org (http://www.hike-mst.org)

i would only be able to do around 30 miles. three weeks ago i did sections 11-12 at roughly 32 miles. i found out my limitatons that weekend. i was carrying a little heavy and wound up hurting my right knee a bit, late in the first day. a little favoring of the right resulted in injuring the left. the end of the second day, decending in to ravensburg state park, consisted of me hobbling down the last steep slope inches at a time. this all sucked pretty bad as i had been making killer time most of the way!

btw: i am no wimp. i will not hold you or anybody else up on the trail! i will try to stay tween 2 and 3 mph even hurt.

i have been in talks with a relative in PA about day-hiking section 13 from ravensburg sp northbound at the end of this month as a sort of recovery test-run (13 miles as i recall). if my knees survive that then i'm game for a 2-3 day trip given it isn't a million miles:).

regarding bears and hunting: i thought the trail remained open, but at your own risk?
skimming the guide i only see cautions about blaze orange and private land restrictions during hunting season.:confused:

i would only be able to do around 30 miles. three weeks ago i did sections 11-12 at roughly 32 miles. i found out my limitatons that weekend. i was carrying a little heavy and wound up hurting my right knee a bit, late in the first day. a little favoring of the right resulted in injuring the left. the end of the second day, decending in to ravensburg state park, consisted of me hobbling down the last steep slope inches at a time. this all sucked pretty bad as i had been making killer time most of the way!

btw: i am no wimp. i will not hold you or anybody else up on the trail! i will try to stay tween 2 and 3 mph even hurt.

i have been in talks with a relative in PA about day-hiking section 13 from ravensburg sp northbound at the end of this month as a sort of recovery test-run (13 miles as i recall). if my knees survive that then i'm game for a 2-3 day trip given it isn't a million miles:).

regarding bears and hunting: i thought the trail remained open, but at your own risk?
skimming the guide i only see cautions about blaze orange and private land restrictions during hunting season.:confused:

if you could join me for either the beginning or end of my section and help me out with shuttling cars that would be much appreciated!

re miles we can do whatever you think you can handle. we usually do around 15 a day or so on these trips but it doesnt matter and i can scale back. some trips we've been known to do 25 miles in a day, and on others only 6-8. remember there will be little daylight, probably a good bit of snow, and yes, hunters. and there are sections that are technically closed off during hunting seasons. i have the guidebook that states this in certain sections. and of the maps that are available online, most of them say that as well:

http://www.hike-mst.org/Maps/Map_T18.pdf
http://www.hike-mst.org/Maps/Map_T19.pdf
http://www.hike-mst.org/Maps/T20.pdf

sections 1-5 designate going through state game lands (SGL's) and I'm sure they may have closings as well. ki0eh would be able to tell us.

if you could join me for either the beginning or end of my section and help me out with shuttling cars that would be much appreciated!

re miles we can do whatever you think you can handle. we usually do around 15 a day or so on these trips but it doesnt matter and i can scale back. some trips we've been known to do 25 miles in a day, and on others only 6-8. remember there will be little daylight, probably a good bit of snow, and yes, hunters. and there are sections that are technically closed off during hunting seasons. i have the guidebook that states this in certain sections. and of the maps that are available online, most of them say that as well:

http://www.hike-mst.org/Maps/Map_T18.pdf
http://www.hike-mst.org/Maps/Map_T19.pdf
http://www.hike-mst.org/Maps/T20.pdf

sections 1-5 designate going through state game lands (SGL's) and I'm sure they may have closings as well. ki0eh would be able to tell us.
25 mile days? you don't fool around!:)

regarding milelage:
in april i did pa322-pa45 section @ 27 miles over the weekend. kept a good pace on the first leg in to poe paddy and then flew throught the second half in 5 hours or so. could have gone much further! thought i was ready for anything! i am hoping that this injury was just a fluke. last weekend i walked a little 5 mile trail in eastern PA at a park called '5 mile wood' with no trouble.......... so........ we'll see later this month.

regarding hunting closures:
thanks for the heads up. never noticed the closures on the maps before.

sections 1-5 designate going through state game lands (SGL's) and I'm sure they may have closings as well. ki0eh would be able to tell us.

The MST sections through SGL are to be used in accordance with SGL regulations which notably do not allow camping or fires, without the limited exception that applies to the A.T. (http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter135/chap135toc.html#135.2) and require the wearing of orange Nov 15 to Dec 15 (http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter135/s135.41.html) . MST sections 1-5, 16, 17, and 19 (using the 11th edition guide section numbers) pass in part or wholly through SGL. (Section 6, although not SGL, is on a rail-trail that currently offers no camping accommodation.)

Although the trail does not have a closure period on SGL, we have noticed that on SGL 97 especially (this is south of Everett) some "hunters" have been observed to complain about even PGC-authorized trail maintenance activities, even in October. We don't really recommend hiking anywhere on MST during the rifle bear and deer seasons. The entire MST, including State Forest, is open to hunting.

Private lands are closed the first Monday in February as stated in the guide, and further hunting season closures with varying dates affect parts of Sections 18, 19, and 20 as noted on the maps and in the guide or posted guide revisions on http://www.hike-mst.org/guide.html . (Note as I write this there is not yet posted a guide revision for section 20 matching relocations effective spring 2009, although these show on the maps.)

The MST sections through SGL are to be used in accordance with SGL regulations which notably do not allow camping or fires, without the limited exception that applies to the A.T. (http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter135/chap135toc.html#135.2) and require the wearing of orange Nov 15 to Dec 15 (http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter135/s135.41.html) . MST sections 1-5, 16, 17, and 19 (using the 11th edition guide section numbers) pass in part or wholly through SGL. (Section 6, although not SGL, is on a rail-trail that currently offers no camping accommodation.)

Although the trail does not have a closure period on SGL, we have noticed that on SGL 97 especially (this is south of Everett) some "hunters" have been observed to complain about even PGC-authorized trail maintenance activities, even in October. We don't really recommend hiking anywhere on MST during the rifle bear and deer seasons. The entire MST, including State Forest, is open to hunting.

Private lands are closed the first Monday in February as stated in the guide, and further hunting season closures with varying dates affect parts of Sections 18, 19, and 20 as noted on the maps and in the guide or posted guide revisions on http://www.hike-mst.org/guide.html . (Note as I write this there is not yet posted a guide revision for section 20 matching relocations effective spring 2009, although these show on the maps.)


wow. sounds to me like we need to focus on sections 11-15 or so then for our thanksgiving hike? ..wihch, despite the 'recommendations' :), would be the best choice

doing sections 11-15 or so... we would be in state forests lands mostly which I would feel better about than SGL's (such as in sections 1-5).

hunters sure do ruin my hiking fun sometimes. maybe i just need to carry a rifle when i go so that I can say I'm "hunting" :)

Section 16, though a bit of it is on SGL 75, is about as isolated as PA hiking gets. Other than not camping, there's not much different there than the surrounding State Forest lands in the Pine Creek Valley, including hunting pressure. Most hunters and realtors don't know the difference between State Forest and SGL anyway.

16 sounds good...volks-man how about sections 13-16 (around 60 miles)?
ki0eh, wanna join us?

ki0eh, wanna join us?

Want to, yes, will, most likely not. I work in a sector that's being economically stimulated and things are pretty busy, alas.

Want to, yes, will, most likely not. I work in a sector that's being economically stimulated and things are pretty busy, alas.
ah,
he's either a prison gaurd or a repo-man!

16 sounds good...volks-man how about sections 13-16 (around 60 miles)?
ki0eh, wanna join us?

if all goes to plan later this month i will have completed sec 13 already.
that might actually work out pretty good! :)
if i were dropped in on sec 14 at pa 150 and walked through to the end of 16 with you, the wife could retreive us and drop you back at your vehicle afterward.

only question is the pace. my part would be 50 miles. if you plan to do this in two days then i am simply not in your league :eek:. i think i could stand 3, 16 mile days though...

... or a repo-man!

Well, I did once own a Chevy Malibu, but it didn't wind up in Area 51, so far as I know!

( reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repo_Man_(film)) )

if all goes to plan later this month i will have completed sec 13 already.
that might actually work out pretty good! :)
if i were dropped in on sec 14 at pa 150 and walked through to the end of 16 with you, the wife could retreive us and drop you back at your vehicle afterward.

only question is the pace. my part would be 50 miles. if you plan to do this in two days then i am simply not in your league :eek:. i think i could stand 3, 16 mile days though...

no no no. i have sat-sun-mon-tues-wed to hike and am in no hurry.

if i started northbound saturday at noon, i could hike all of section 13 (21 km [13 miles]) and meet up with you sunday morning or mid-day (22 Nov) in Woolrich. then, that gives us sun(pm)-mon-tues-wed(am) (3 'days') to hike 40 miles (sections 14, 15,and 16)...a 13 mpd pace.

no no no. i have sat-sun-mon-tues-wed to hike and am in no hurry.

if i started northbound saturday at noon, i could hike all of section 13 (21 km [13 miles]) and meet up with you sunday morning or mid-day (22 Nov) in Woolrich. then, that gives us sun(pm)-mon-tues-wed(am) (3 'days') to hike 40 miles (sections 14, 15,and 16)...a 13 mpd pace.

and the peices begin to fit....

only flaw i see in your plan is the 40 mile part. by my calcs that is 50 miles.
section 14: 13.8, section 15: 10.52, section 16: 25.25.
my day-hike with my cousin on section 13 this month will still be the deciding factor though. if i can't handle that with basically no gear then i am too cooked to do a long hike for a while. (fingers crossed)

now we need to figure out how we each camp. are you a 'hanger' or a ground person? makes a difference when where we can stop, i would think. i have been trying out hanging here lately but can do both.
out of curiousity, do you cook on the trail? do you light campfires? hang food nights? never really hiked with a pro before.... just trying to get a feel for how you guys do it.:)

and the peices begin to fit....

only flaw i see in your plan is the 40 mile part. by my calcs that is 50 miles.
section 14: 13.8, section 15: 10.52, section 16: 25.25.
my day-hike with my cousin on section 13 this month will still be the deciding factor though. if i can't handle that with basically no gear then i am too cooked to do a long hike for a while. (fingers crossed)

now we need to figure out how we each camp. are you a 'hanger' or a ground person? makes a difference when where we can stop, i would think. i have been trying out hanging here lately but can do both.
out of curiousity, do you cook on the trail? do you light campfires? hang food nights? never really hiked with a pro before.... just trying to get a feel for how you guys do it.:)


a pro? thats funny. obviously not at math...you are right; its 50 miles. therefore a sunday morning start at woolrich would be best, that way we have 3.5-4 days to hike the remaining 50 miles at a more leisurely pace.

i tent camp. i cook breakfasts and suppers. sometimes i light fires...depending on how tired and cold i am. dont hang food...put it in the tent.

my day-hike with my cousin on section 13 this month will still be the deciding factor though. if i can't handle that with basically no gear then i am too cooked to do a long hike for a while. (fingers crossed)



so how'd it go?

so how'd it go?
not great.

i will be unable to accompany you on the MST this T-day week.

unfortunately my left knee (only) did not perform very well. decending the bigger of the 2 mountains we tackled was pure misery. carrying only a water bottle and 6 granola bars in my 'man-purse' should have much easier than it was. especially when you figure in the amount of road-walking the section had.

we hiked yesterday (sun) after the horrid rains they had fri-sat.
8 hours to cover 13 miles.:eek:
though much of the time spent was due to the experience/fitness level of my companions.

my best guess after reading up on it is that i have an iliotibial-band issue in my knee. every step on a down-grade is painful. :( i've decided that i will not be hiking again untill spring, at best.:(

btw:
there was a lot of large recently downed trees on some portions of section 13. one area, 'great island indian path', was extremely hard to get through. i am unsure if nearby sections 12, 14, 15, ect are effected as well. be carefull!

my apologies.
v

let me know if anything changes.

let me know if anything changes.
absolutely.

btw:
there was a lot of large recently downed trees on some portions of section 13. one area, 'great island indian path', was extremely hard to get through. i am unsure if nearby sections 12, 14, 15, ect are effected as well. be carefull!


FYI .. while there is a good chance ki0eh will see that report and pass it along, it is always good to shoot an e-mail to the maintaining club -- whether the MST Association in this case, or the local AT club in the case of the AT -- when you encounter blow downs.

This is especially helpful on trails like the MST which see less traffic. If maintainers are not alerted to problems, they can't fix them.

FYI .. while there is a good chance ki0eh will see that report and pass it along, it is always good to shoot an e-mail to the maintaining club -- whether the MST Association in this case, or the local AT club in the case of the AT -- when you encounter blow downs.

This is especially helpful on trails like the MST which see less traffic. If maintainers are not alerted to problems, they can't fix them.

ki0eh saw my report before anyone else did. :cool:

it is always good to shoot an e-mail to the maintaining club * * * This is especially helpful on trails like the MST which see less traffic. If maintainers are not alerted to problems, they can't fix them.

True!

ki0eh saw my report before anyone else did. :cool:

And true!

i did forget to mention that there is some light construction going on on the west-branch bridge near the end of the section. doing something to the concrete gaurd rail ends at either end of the bridge.

the workers have junked up the north end abutment area a bit and have blocked the area below with mounds of dirt and large trucks. seems they are intentionally blocking their parking/equipment area off from the road. unfortunately you must traverse the blocked area to continue.

not a big deal but worth mentioning, i think.
:cool:

so who wants to give me a shuttle since it looks like I may be hiking alone?

http://www.sungazette.com/page/content.detail/id/534736.html?nav=5013

Sunday 11/01/09 Williamsport Sun-Gazette: outdoor section

btw:
there was a lot of large recently downed trees on some portions of section 13. one area, 'great island indian path', was extremely hard to get through. i am unsure if nearby sections 12, 14, 15, ect are effected as well. be carefull!


I am advised that a crack crew has been out for the last few days and has cleared from a little bit south of R.B. Winter, through Ravensburg and north through this area. Your detailed report via PM was very much appreciated and Ed Lawrence, President of MSTA, has authorized me to convey the thanks of the organization.

Specific reports will continue to be appreciated - whether an e-mail to the points of contact on the MSTA website (http://www.hike-mst.org/contact.html) - a PM to me here - or a report through the KTA trail conditions form on the KTA website (http://www.kta-hike.org/index.php?option=com_forme&fid=1&Itemid=64) , will see action.

We believe the freak autumn snowfall likely continues to affect trail conditions from a little south of R.B. Winter (now), to likely south of State College. Actually, we thought a WB member was to be out in this area during and immediately following the event, but we haven't heard.

At this time we think the area north of Woolrich is less affected.

At this time we think the area north of Woolrich is less affected.

i'll certainly let you know here in a couple weeks :)

I am advised that a crack crew has been out for the last few days and has cleared from a little bit south of R.B. Winter, through Ravensburg and north through this area. Your detailed report via PM was very much appreciated and Ed Lawrence, President of MSTA, has authorized me to convey the thanks of the organization.

Specific reports will continue to be appreciated - whether an e-mail to the points of contact on the MSTA website (http://www.hike-mst.org/contact.html) - a PM to me here - or a report through the KTA trail conditions form on the KTA website (http://www.kta-hike.org/index.php?option=com_forme&fid=1&Itemid=64) , will see action.



no applause necessary.
:)
i'm just doing my thing, walking your great trail.
i didn't know how important trail reports were before... now i get it.
next time out i will report again, only if needed.

you may convey my thanks to Ed Lawrence for his efforts in keeping an awesome trail going!
v

Just got off the trail today, day 3 of my trip, and a day early. It poured down raining all last night and much of today. I really gotta get new gear. My tent leaked like a sieve and my overused and abused rain jacket with nearly 4000 miles on it is pretty much worthless:) I also slipped and fell and gashed my knee open on a rock just south of Little Pine Creek State Park. I think cutting my trip short by a few miles was the right thing to do given how sore and swollen my knee continues to be, now several hours later. Besides, who wants to hike in the rain alone? :) My number one rule in hiking is have fun :) Close to the top is also "no hot"....

As such, the weather was not what I was expecting this year. Last year before Thanksgiving we got 8 inches of snow. In fact, I've been hiking Thanksgiving week in PA for a number of years now and always had at least a light dusting, if not more snow. This year I had one day of sunny 60 degree weather and hiked in my shirt sleeves. I ended up sweating a good bit on the climbs. The warmer weather brought out the hunters (it is bear season), but I did not notice as many as I have in past years, especially in 2007 when I hiked the Laurel Highlands Trail (http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/Forestry/hiking/laurel.aspx). My shuttle (Rick Henrich, who owns the outfitter in Lock Haven, and whom I highly recommend) said that I may not see as many hunters in this section since it was more rugged than other areas of the trail. I was glad for that, although I was decked out in blaze orange. I always knew when a road crossing was coming because the hunters never stray more than 1/2 mile or so from the road. Today I only saw one hunter out since it was raining. I overheard two ole-timers talking in town once I got back to the car that this is going to be a significantly down year regarding the bear harvest count. I think only 61 gear were taken on opening day when usually around 300 are taken in a 3-day span. No doubt the rain today even further reduced that number when compared to last year.

The trail was in great shape for the most part. It was fairly well blazed, but I did lose the trail and had to backtrack a couple times, mostly due to the abundance of criss-crossing paths/junctions. I also took a wrong turn at one point and followed the wrong orange blazes....not sure why you would blaze a side trail orange when the main thoroughfare (ie, the MST) is also orange. It was my fault; I was just in the zone and not paying enough attention, but it did add several miles to my trip. The section north of Blackwell to NY that I hiked back in August was better blazed, but it is also a newer section. A note to maintainers (mainly, ki0eh :)): I would not change anything - the trail is better blazed than many I have been on. But at the same time I was glad I had my map with me for some parts. There were not too many blowdowns. The small portions of the trail that went through PA State Game Lands were perfectly manicured; I could literally smell the sawdust on some of the trailside brush. Someone had obviously just been through so as to provide the hunters with unhampered walking.

Thanks to all the maintainers for all they do! Even though I cut it a day short, I had another great time on the MST!

Glad to see we didn't get hammered harder further north by the early snow. Which trail did you run off on with the blazing? And you likely chose wisely with a suspect knee to miss the biggest climbs on the MST...

Just got off the trail today, day 3 of my trip, and a day early.

Thanks to all the maintainers for all they do! Even though I cut it a day short, I had another great time on the MST!

Glad to see we didn't get hammered harder further north by the early snow. Which trail did you run off on with the blazing? And you likely chose wisely with a suspect knee to miss the biggest climbs on the MST...

which sections did you wind up doing?

must be something about that trail and injuring one's knees.:(

shame it rained for you. if it were dry and you hadn't cut your knee how much further would you have gone?

which sections did you wind up doing?

must be something about that trail and injuring one's knees.:(

shame it rained for you. if it were dry and you hadn't cut your knee how much further would you have gone?

i hiked from blackwell to south of little pine creek state park - sections 16, 15, and part of 14. my plan was to hike into woolrich...i stopped maybe 15 miles short and ended up doing about 35 miles for the trip.

Early indications of MST work weekends for 2010, might be more:

Mar 19-21 State College Region @ large cabin just off US 322 between Milroy and Potters Mills

Jul 9-11 Tioga Region @ Ives Run Recreation Area, Hammond Lake (http://www.nab.usace.army.mil/recreation/tioga.htm), PA 287 between Tioga & Middlebury Center

Early indications of MST work weekends for 2010, might be more:

Mar 19-21 State College Region @ large cabin just off US 322 between Milroy and Potters Mills

Jul 9-11 Tioga Region @ Ives Run Recreation Area, Hammond Lake (http://www.nab.usace.army.mil/recreation/tioga.htm), PA 287 between Tioga & Middlebury Center

The March date sounds like a great excuse to spend a weekend at Poe Paddy, sneak in a little fly fishing on the side. Will have to see how my schedule shakes out, but that is one I am going to shoot for.