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mark.k.watson
07-17-2008, 01:59
I am planing a 2009 section hike and have been reading in interest the bear threads. Take or leave this for what it is worth.
I have been reading the pros and cons of carying bear spray or a gun for protection against 2-legged and 4-legged terrors.
#1 For bears I will not carry bear spray on the AT as I do not believe the weight is worth the risk of a bear attack on the AT. With that said I fully trust bear spray with my life far more than I would trust a firearm.
I am a damn good shot with both a rifle and pistol and I trust spray over a gun any day. I am from Wyoming and South Dakota and researched bear attacks in HS here is what I found: One, a cook in a hunting camp in Alaska shot a Griz at point blank range in the head with a .444 Marlin. He was mauled severly. By the way this gun has the energy to life an elephant 1-foot off the ground at point blank.
Two, Think about it. a .3-inch bullet against a 3-inch brain to instantly kill a bear during a full-on charge. Factor in addrenalin and poo factor and you are more than likely to miss or wound. I do not choose to kill a bear, but would have no problem doing so if needed. Go to You Tube and search bear attacks to see a variety of attacks.
While bow hunting elk I ran into a grizz, that fortunatly did the right thing when my dad and I ran into it in the dark, by running away. The next day we both bought spray.
My dad test sprayed a .5 second shot into the still air. His spray worked and he went back into the garage. 15 minuets later he came back out and walked into the area he fired his test spray. He was nearly leveled by the residue.
Since I have carried spray I have run into half a dozen black bears. I wouldlove to see a grizz again from the safety of my car ... but I have never pulled the spray on anything but a bull moose that was getting too close; 15 feet or so.
I know there have been several threads posted that spray is ileagle in many parks, but in parks like Yellowstone, GT, Glacier, spray is a necessity and nearly required. Personally I feel that if I felt it were necessary to carry spray on NPS property I would do so no matter what the regs. I think the rangers would not cite you, but this is knowledge gained from western parks
So, if you see a bear, don't run. This will trigger a predatory responce and you are numm nunm time. Stand your ground and be the biggest baddest mother around. Yell, scream, throw things, be huge, take pictures.
Enjoy the fact that you got to see a bear. I am fortunate enough to have seen multipleears from the heart of the west to the GSMNP, wish you well Bobcat. on't be afraid. Use your head and you will be OK.

Bob S
07-17-2008, 02:57
444 Marlin By the way this gun has the energy to life an elephant 1-foot off the ground at point blank.


No it doesn’t to do that it would have to push the shooter just as hard (Law of physics, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction) It would take tons of force to instantly lift a heavy elephant 1-foot off ground, that force applied to the shooter would send him and the gun back a long way. No hand fired gun on this planet will do this other then maybe a bazooka.

This doesn’t happen. Bullets take animals down by a few ways. Destroying flesh & bone, hydrostatic shock to the nervous system and blood loss.


If you are stabbed in the rear end with a straight pin, you are going to jump several feet, no real force was behind the pin to push you, the jump is caused by your nervous systems reaction to the pin. Bullets work along similar lines.


Think about it. a .3-inch bullet against a 3-inch brain to instantly kill a bear during a full-on charge.


A 444 is not .3 inch it’s .429 diameter, that’s a lot bigger then a 30 cal (.308 dia) bullet. But the 444 Marlin is not moving real fast. It’s about twice as powerful as a 44 Mag pistol. It pushes a 265 grain bullet at 2100 fps



I don’t really care how someone deals with bears, Bear Spray, Guns or a fast set of feet, but get the info right.

Bob S
07-17-2008, 03:03
A bazooka won’t push the shooter back because it’s power comes from it’s detonation on target, the explosion may lift an elephant off the ground, and it’s recoilless.

Bob S
07-17-2008, 03:13
While bow hunting elk I ran into a grizz, that fortunately did the right thing when my dad and I ran into it in the dark, by running away.


So, if you see a bear, don't run. This will trigger a predatory response and you are numm nunm time.



You contradict yourself in these 2 statements.

fiddlehead
07-17-2008, 05:26
Seems to me he was saying that the grizz did the right thing and ran away. Not he and his dad.

I agree, running away is the wrong thing to do. For griz, I'd play dead, for black bear: I stay where i am and try not to show fear, for mtn lion, fight back.

Seems to be an awful lot of these bear spray threads going on around now. Must be lots of fear out there that's bear related, aye?

trouthunter
07-28-2008, 21:33
There's not a good method of defense against a pissed off bear if he gets the jump on you. I have carried and tested bear spray before, very iffy, wind direction is a big problem, you have to let the bear get fairly close especially in stiff wind, you have to remember to turn the can so it is pointed in the right direction ect.

Not a big fan!

minnesotasmith
07-28-2008, 21:49
1) There are no grizzlies on the AT.

2) The main reason I find the weight and bulk of bear spray to be worthwhile on the AT isn't for defense against bears. There are two other creatures out there much more likely to hurt a hiker (especially one halfway smart WRT bear risk reduction precautions).

trouthunter
07-28-2008, 21:54
I agree with minnesotasmith if I'm reading him correctly