http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26611180/

Fighting the fat gene takes 3-4 hours a day
Or you can always live like the Amish, new research shows

The Associated Press
updated 2:14 p.m. MT, Mon., Sept. 8, 2008

"Maybe you CAN blame being fat on your genes. But there's a way to overcome that family history — just get three to four hours of moderate activity a day.

Sound pretty daunting?

Not for the Amish of Lancaster County, Pa., who were the focus of a new study on a common genetic variation that makes people more likely to gain weight. It turns out the variant's effects can be blocked with physical activity — lots of it.

Scientists believe about 30 percent of white people of European ancestry have this variant, including the Amish, and that may partly explain why so many people are overweight.

But fighting that fat factor may be easier in the Amish community's 19th century rural lifestyle. They don't use cars or modern appliances. Many of the men are farmers and carpenters, and the women, who are homemakers, often care for several children.

The researchers found that Amish people with the genetic variant were no more likely to be overweight than those who had the regular version of the gene — as long as they got three to four hours of moderate activity every day. That included things like brisk walking, housecleaning and gardening.

And while physical activity is recommended for just about everyone, the study suggests that people with the gene variation need to be especially vigilant about getting exercise.

"These findings emphasize the important role of physical activity in public health efforts to combat obesity, particularly in genetically susceptible people," the authors wrote in Monday's Archives of Internal Medicine.

Study co-author Dr. Soren Snitker of the University of Maryland acknowledged that it's unrealistic to expect most people to shun modern conveniences and return to a 19th century lifestyle for the sake of staying trim.

Every little bit helps
But he said every little bit helps, and that adding an extra few hours of activity daily might not be as hard as it seems.

Instead of watching TV for a few hours at night, take a brisk walk, he suggested. Or use stairs instead of elevators, walk instead of driving, or take up a structured exercise such as swimming.

Previous research based on self-reporting of physical activity has produced similar results. The new study used a more reliable measure — battery-operated monitoring devices worn round-the-clock for a week, said lead author Evadnie Rampersaud of the University of Miami.

More research is needed to see if similar results would be found in other racial and ethnic groups, said Amy Zlot, a genetics researcher with Oregon's Department of Human Services, who was not involved in the study.

The Amish study involved 704 people; blood samples determined which of those had a variation in the FTO gene linked to obesity. Among those with the variant, those who got about three or four hours of moderate physical activity a day weighed up to about 15 pounds less on average than the least active people.

Big trouble for couch potatoes
The least active group would be comparable to Americans who get little exercise beyond normal activities of daily living, Snitker said.

The authors said it is not clear how the FTO gene influences excess weight, but it is believed to be involved in the function of a protein that may affect how the body regulates food intake.

"It's only if you're not active that the gene hurts," Snitker said. "If you are active, then either way, it doesn't matter whether you have the gene or not."

So far, blood tests identifying the gene variant are only available for research. Experts say there are likely many other genetic differences that also influence obesity, so it is too soon to recommend routine testing for the general public.

Dr. Joel Hirschhorn, a genetics and obesity researcher at Children's Hospital Boston, said people should not interpret the study to mean, "I don't have this gene variant so I don't need to be physically active."

He noted that other obesity gene variants might also be affected by physical activity, which has benefits beyond helping people stay trim."

YOu can attribute fat to exercise or lack of if you want.
I don't buy it.
I say it's diet. The American diet is bad. I gain weight every year when i go back.
Mostly it's the cheese, salt, and fat. IMO

Most everyone that has come to visit me here in Thailand has lost weight. It's the diet.
Mostly rice and fish with fish sauce as their salt. No cheese, no bread. Same with most of Asia.
You can say it's exercise or lack of but I ain't buyin it.
(get's too hot here to really exercise 4 hours a day anyway, one in the morning and one in the evening is plenty IMO)

I never have seen a fat amish person before...........and they eat LOTS of bread and dairy.
But IMO, diet is a huge part of it. That said, I can foresee a large american weight gain coming on. Who afford fresh produce right now.....outside of the farmers market that will close soon. I saw that a pound of carrots was almost $4 and ONE lemon was about $1.50........I'm hoping that by baking my own bread and getting what I can out of the freezer section, that I can maintain a healthy weight.
I feel that corn syrup is quite possiable the most evil substance in the world

I agree that both diet and exercise aide in overall health. But from personal, medically verified documents I can attest that it's not the case for everyone. See, I was skinny my entire life until several years ago. I weight 97lbs until I was 38. Didn't eat differently or exercise other than sports I enjoyed. Then I had two foot surgeries and was on crutches for 8 months solid. I still on crutches cut grass with a rope around me and my mower (so wasn't lazy) but due to crutches became overweight. After being healed a bit I was losing back to normal again UNTIL my thyroid stopped working. I currently exercise 2 times EVERY day, snow ski, roller skate, hike, ballroom dance and I'm overweight so I must disagree with "exercise" being the 'problem" as I do it daily. So sometimes medical is the cause. And again, I was skinny my entire life until thyroid which for me wasn't diagnosed until 3 years after I had that problem and I was exhausted daily doing nothing. I also have fibromyalgia now so that too attributes and it's painful to exercise but I do it anyway. Point is ... don't always blame diet and exercise on weight ... (admittedly I could change my diet MORE but I exercise a lot and get no where).

It's pretty obvious that a strategic diet is key in whatever you're trying to get your body to do. Losing fat, gaining muscle, healing, addressing all sorts of health issues, getting gold medals, whatever...there's a strategic diet for every goal. The idea that 3 hours of exercise counters the fat gene's effects doesn't mean that exercise is all you need worry about. No amount of exercise is going to overcome a deficient diet's effect on good health. That 3 hours of exercise should be viewed as just getting you to where everyone else already is when it comes to staying fit by balancing out the negative effects of the genetics. That still leaves the usual amount of work to achieve any degree of fitness, weight-loss, muscle building etc.

lol, I'll agree with the part about 'deficient' diet (although you mean it in nutrients most likely) ... but I hate food .. all of it; which does cause a metabolism problem. But my doctors are trying to regulate my thyroid (granted with meds they believe in). I've also tried the thyroid diets as well, they just don't work for me.

lol, I'll agree with the part about 'deficient' diet (although you mean it in nutrients most likely) ... but I hate food .. all of it; which does cause a metabolism problem. But my doctors are trying to regulate my thyroid (granted with meds they believe in). I've also tried the thyroid diets as well, they just don't work for me.I hope you've considered the meds they don't believe in. I know one person who had an eating disorder (not thyroid related or whatever, but...) who was helped immensely by that particular alternative medicine that gets all that attention in california. (She says it saved her life). I can't imagine what it must be like to hate food...I live for fine cuisine, but surely some kind of fortified ice-creamy concoction would go down easy?

YOu can attribute fat to exercise or lack of if you want.
I don't buy it.
I say it's diet. The American diet is bad. I gain weight every year when i go back.
Mostly it's the cheese, salt, and fat. IMO

Most everyone that has come to visit me here in Thailand has lost weight. It's the diet.
Mostly rice and fish with fish sauce as their salt. No cheese, no bread. Same with most of Asia.
You can say it's exercise or lack of but I ain't buyin it.
(get's too hot here to really exercise 4 hours a day anyway, one in the morning and one in the evening is plenty IMO)

Don't forget the high fructose con syrup, in everything.

I never have seen a fat amish person before...........and they eat LOTS of bread and dairy.
But IMO, diet is a huge part of it. That said, I can foresee a large american weight gain coming on. Who afford fresh produce right now.....outside of the farmers market that will close soon. I saw that a pound of carrots was almost $4 and ONE lemon was about $1.50........I'm hoping that by baking my own bread and getting what I can out of the freezer section, that I can maintain a healthy weight.
I feel that corn syrup is quite possiable the most evil substance in the world

Ah, I didn't read far enough. You beat me to the corn syrup comment.

Frozen veggies should be alright, they may have more nutritional content, according to some studies, than not-so-fresh produce, because they are flash frozen quickly.
I don't know if you have access to any land, but we grow almost all our veggies, and much of our fruit, or buy it in season locally, when it's cheap, then freeze it, dry it or can it. It really helps the cheap/healthy eating if you can swing it. And beans are cheap and healthy.

Sprouts may be too passe for words, but the fact remains that sprouts of seeds and beans are very high nutritionally, and really good in stir fries and salads. So, anyone with the will to improve their diet can be a "gardener." You can even sprout wheat grains before making bread. Supposed to allow your body to view it more as a veggie than a starch.
They say sprouted broccoli has more nutrition and antioxidants than the actual vegetable.
http://www.isga-sprouts.org/nutritio.htm

People in old days ate cheese, salt pork, bread, you name it. But they also had to tote water, build cabins, split logs, etc. They did eat minimal sugar though as it was pretty expensive.

Exercise and cut out the sugar.

I hope you've considered the meds they don't believe in. I know one person who had an eating disorder (not thyroid related or whatever, but...) who was helped immensely by that particular alternative medicine that gets all that attention in california. (She says it saved her life). I can't imagine what it must be like to hate food...I live for fine cuisine, but surely some kind of fortified ice-creamy concoction would go down easy?would be nice to "afford" alternative meds but I'm a disabled veteran and I can ONLY go to the VA fund wise ... thanks for the thought, I do believe in alternative meds just can't go to those sorts :)

Calories. Some folks gain weight on fewer calories than others. But no one gains weight when burning more calories than are ingested. One may restrict calorie intake, use up more calories through activity or body compositions change (fat to muscle), or a combination of both.

Whatever...weight gain comes from a surplus of calories, weight loss follows a deficit.

FB

Whatever...weight gain comes from a surplus of calories, weight loss follows a deficit.

FB

Or, as my husband cynically says, "There are no fat people in a concentration camp."

Gaining or losing weight is certainly related to hormones as much as total calories. The Atkins and Zone diets have proven that fact. A high carb diet is a recipe for obesity, heart disease (one of the primary components of arterial plaque is sugar) and, of course, diabetes. 10-20 minutes of exercise that leaves you gasping for air 4-5 days/week, add in some moderate activity like a martial art class, softball, hiking, etc a few days each week and get and stay on the Zone diet and 99% of those who do that will have a normal weight and good health.

many people eat far more calories than they burn, this makes them fat.

everyone knows the overweight person who orders a salad at dinner & then goes home to eat an entire box of oreos.

would be nice to "afford" alternative meds but I'm a disabled veteran and I can ONLY go to the VA fund wise ... thanks for the thought, I do believe in alternative meds just can't go to those sorts :)

I worked for 5 months in the QA/QC lab for a place that packaged probably over half the herbal product types on the shelf at places like Wal-Mart. Green stuff one day, brown the next, stems on Thursday, leaves on Friday, probably not the same species every time -- and all labeled and sold as being the same product. Further, the capsules could vary by as much as +/- 40% and still be sold as being the "same" dosage. Then, you get into how whatever "active" ingredient (if there even is one) is commonly unknown, and not measured if it is...

The "alternative" medicine hawkers resist all real testing, BC they know it would shut down their rackets. For herbal stuff, that means figuring out what (if anything) is the active agent, isolating it, synthesizing it so it can be mass-produced, prescribing it in double-blind studies where the people in charge have no incentive to find it useful to bias their results, then prescribing it in precisely known dosages. Anyone against this either is a scam artist who doesn't want their ripping off the ignorant to stop (and have to get a real job), or is too ignorant of how potential meds are determined to be adequately safe and useful to have an opinion worth considering on the subject.

Calories. Some folks gain weight on fewer calories than others. But no one gains weight when burning more calories than are ingested. One may restrict calorie intake, use up more calories through activity or body compositions change (fat to muscle), or a combination of both.

Whatever...weight gain comes from a surplus of calories, weight loss follows a deficit.

FBLOL ... you do when you have a thyroid condition .. I barely eat one meal a day and then it's not a meal so my calorie intake is sad and I over exercise so I will disagree from experience not hearsay on this one. I still appreciate all the thoughts though ... I too hate meds so I will "listen" to anyone and form my own opinion :)

I worked for 5 months in the QA/QC lab for a place that packaged probably over half the herbal product types on the shelf at places like Wal-Mart. Green stuff one day, brown the next, stems on Thursday, leaves on Friday, probably not the same species every time -- and all labeled and sold as being the same product. Further, the capsules could vary by as much as +/- 40% and still be sold as being the "same" dosage. Then, you get into how whatever "active" ingredient (if there even is one) is commonly unknown, and not measured if it is...

The "alternative" medicine hawkers resist all real testing, BC they know it would shut down their rackets. For herbal stuff, that means figuring out what (if anything) is the active agent, isolating it, synthesizing it so it can be mass-produced, prescribing it in double-blind studies where the people in charge have no incentive to find it useful to bias their results, then prescribing it in precisely known dosages. Anyone against this either is a scam artist who doesn't want their ripping off the ignorant to stop (and have to get a real job), or is too ignorant of how potential meds are determined to be adequately safe and useful to have an opinion worth considering on the subject.Wow, thanks for that analysis but "did you see that jet fly right over my head, lol" I have no idea what you are trying to say about herbs, meds, ingredients etc. sorry ... and I read it twice. You are just a bit 'above' my comprehension (probably from my diet wouldn't you think) lol .... so were you saying you are 'also' against alternative meds? and for herbs ... to me that's the same thing ... another 'alternative. But obviously I have no clue ... ok the jet fuel is getting to me so I'm out of here for a bit and let ya'll hack out "what you think you know" from what "I" experience myself. But I'm still happy to 'listen' and see who makes the most sense .... :)

Wow, thanks for that analysis but "did you see that jet fly right over my head, lol" I have no idea what you are trying to say about herbs, meds, ingredients etc. sorry ... and I read it twice. You are just a bit 'above' my comprehension (probably from my diet wouldn't you think) lol .... so were you saying you are 'also' against alternative meds? and for herbs ... to me that's the same thing ... another 'alternative. But obviously I have no clue ... ok the jet fuel is getting to me so I'm out of here for a bit and let ya'll hack out "what you think you know" from what "I" experience myself. But I'm still happy to 'listen' and see who makes the most sense .... :)

"Medicinal" herbs, colloidal silver, copper bracelets, astrology, folk medicine, vortexes, Feng Shui, etc. are scams, ripoffs, worthless, fraud, etc. Don't have anything to do with them, especially not spending one single cent on them, the rest of your life. Advise others to adapt the same policy.

one last thought since I admittedly have 'foot in the mouth disease' ... least I'm honest, lol. But isn't it funny how those starving at concentration camps look like skeletons and those starving kids in say africa who are also seriously starving look pregnant ... all due to lack of calories ... granted 'disease' is also a factor in both cases and lack of medical care ....

"Medicinal" herbs, colloidal silver, copper bracelets, astrology, folk medicine, vortexes, Feng Shui, etc. are scams, ripoffs, worthless, fraud, etc. Don't have anything to do with them, especially not spending one single cent on them, the rest of your life. Advise others to adapt the same policy.oh ok, thanks ... then "oddly" enough WE are on the same page ... I don't believe in that crap either (lol, one item from experience, lol) garbage. Thanks for clearly that up :) Makes much more sense to me now and I appreciate the response :)

I have a real question for you Minnesotasmith or for anyone else on this thread :) I really do hate food, I gag at MOST things (seriously gag) even at the smell. So I thought about 'juicing' thinking I could drink 'healthy' really fast and hope it stays down. But in that research I found that when you ONLY juice (or juice more than you eat) it messes up the insides when you try to 'eat' again. Anyone have thoughts on this? and thanks in advance.

I have a real question for you Minnesotasmith or for anyone else on this thread :) I really do hate food, I gag at MOST things (seriously gag) even at the smell. So I thought about 'juicing' thinking I could drink 'healthy' really fast and hope it stays down. But in that research I found that when you ONLY juice (or juice more than you eat) it messes up the insides when you try to 'eat' again. Anyone have thoughts on this? and thanks in advance.

1) I'm pretty sure that it raises the glycemic index of fruits (makes you more prone to getting diabetes,not to mention weight gain). The fiber in fruits and vegetables is useful several ways, including reducing intestinal cancer risk. I'd suggest instead just eating lots of high-nutrient raw fruits and not-overcooked vegetables (esp. fresh or frozen) that you haven't messed up by adding lots of fats (esp. satfats) or salt.

2) Messing up your insides from drinking lots of juice sounds unlikely, unless you already have an ulcer or other gastric/intestinal problem. If you do, then you need a gastroenterologist's expert advice. I do think that a liquid-only diet is unwise on several counts, though; one is that there are nutrients hard to get in liquid form. The other is that your intestines will likely have a bit of a hard time with an abrupt rise in bulk/fiber content in your intake.

Drinking lots of fruit juice does have the risk of raising your tooth decay/gum disease odds, if you sip it often and don't brush enough.

one last thought since I admittedly have 'foot in the mouth disease' ... least I'm honest, lol. But isn't it funny how those starving at concentration camps look like skeletons and those starving kids in say africa who are also seriously starving look pregnant ... all due to lack of calories ... granted 'disease' is also a factor in both cases and lack of medical care ....

The starving kids in Africa have the characteristic swollen bellies (Kwashiorkor) as a result of protein deficiency. A protein called albumin must be present in your bloodstream (serum albumin) to maintain its' proper osmotic pressure. When this mechanism fails, excessive fluid stays in the lymphatic vessels and results in swelling. This is unrelated to body fat levels and metabolism.

thanks Minnesotasmith and also take-a-knee ... I actually enjoy learning what I don't know so I found that rather interesting :)

"Medicinal" herbs, colloidal silver, copper bracelets, astrology, folk medicine, vortexes, Feng Shui, etc. are scams, ripoffs, worthless, fraud, etc. Don't have anything to do with them, especially not spending one single cent on them, the rest of your life. Advise others to adapt the same policy.Nice use of the associative fallacy there, and the quotations around the word medicinal, my friend, but there are quite a few herbal substances that have dramatic and noticeable effects. Most crap marketed to the public in vials and pill bottles is bunk, but even your vaunted "Modern Medicine";) records many pharmaceutical effects of herbs. It's never a good idea to categorically dismiss things. Astrology, Feng Shui and other religious beliefs, for instance, could be viewed as a form of therapy. A harmless superstition that comforts little old ladies and the fearful, etc.

1) I'm pretty sure that it raises the glycemic index of fruits (makes you more prone to getting diabetes,not to mention weight gain). The fiber in fruits and vegetables is useful several ways, including reducing intestinal cancer risk. I'd suggest instead just eating lots of high-nutrient raw fruits and not-overcooked vegetables (esp. fresh or frozen) that you haven't messed up by adding lots of fats (esp. satfats) or salt.

2) Messing up your insides from drinking lots of juice sounds unlikely, unless you already have an ulcer or other gastric/intestinal problem. If you do, then you need a gastroenterologist's expert advice. I do think that a liquid-only diet is unwise on several counts, though; one is that there are nutrients hard to get in liquid form. The other is that your intestines will likely have a bit of a hard time with an abrupt rise in bulk/fiber content in your intake.

Drinking lots of fruit juice does have the risk of raising your tooth decay/gum disease odds, if you sip it often and don't brush enough.ok I must ask ... while you sound like you know what you are talking about .. I am trying to 'learn' as well and obviously I have no problem voicing actual questions meant with a good heart. When I speak of juicing I DO mean "whole fruits and vegetables" as "I" can't eat them, can't stand the smell of nearly all in fact. So when you juice with NOTHING but real fruits and vegetables (washed properly to get off any pesticides) and put stems and all in ... I'm losing valuable nutrients? Is that what you said? (again this isn't a debate it's an actual question). If that is the case guess I shouldn't be listening to the "Jack L" juice man. huh. (didn't want to post his name so there aren't any problems, lol)

ok I must ask ... while you sound like you know what you are talking about .. I am trying to 'learn' as well and obviously I have no problem voicing actual questions meant with a good heart. When I speak of juicing I DO mean "whole fruits and vegetables" as "I" can't eat them, can't stand the smell of nearly all in fact. So when you juice with NOTHING but real fruits and vegetables (washed properly to get off any pesticides) and put stems and all in ... I'm losing valuable nutrients? Is that what you said? (again this isn't a debate it's an actual question). If that is the case guess I shouldn't be listening to the "Jack L" juice man. huh. (didn't want to post his name so there aren't any problems, lol)

If you take out the fiber from a bunch of fruits or vegetables before eating , it raises your chances of diabetes/weight gain from the fruits, and keeps from lowering your chances of intestinal cancer that either of them (fruits/vegetables if eaten as a food with their fiber) can do for you.

there are quite a few herbal substances that have dramatic and noticeable effects.


Astrology, Feng Shui and other religious beliefs, for instance, could be viewed as a form of therapy. A harmless superstition that comforts little old ladies and the fearful, etc.

Then, this shouldn't be objectionable:

"figuring out what (if anything) is the active agent, isolating it, synthesizing it so it can be mass-produced, prescribing it in double-blind studies where the people in charge have no incentive to find it useful to bias their results, then prescribing it in precisely known dosages."

Re the astrology, Feng Shui (technically a type of animism, I believe, so technically pagan/pre-Christian), and such: why would you want someone to accept lies? Isn't knowing the truth as much as possible the essence of sentience, and the basis for making sound, adaptive decisions? (This is why I'm against cults, including PC as one as much as I do Scientology, as they hinder that for their adherents and anyone they have power over.)

ok I must ask ... while you sound like you know what you are talking about .. I am trying to 'learn' as well and obviously I have no problem voicing actual questions meant with a good heart. When I speak of juicing I DO mean "whole fruits and vegetables" as "I" can't eat them, can't stand the smell of nearly all in fact. So when you juice with NOTHING but real fruits and vegetables (washed properly to get off any pesticides) and put stems and all in ... I'm losing valuable nutrients? Is that what you said? (again this isn't a debate it's an actual question). If that is the case guess I shouldn't be listening to the "Jack L" juice man. huh. (didn't want to post his name so there aren't any problems, lol)

Never fear to quote loud and long from 93 yo and still-a-stud Jack Lallane. You can use the pulp from his juicer to make healthy whole-wheat breads.

wasn't afraid, lol .... but thanks for putting his name in. It was more of a situation where, being sort of new to the site; I didn't know if it was legal to list names outside the site :) ... and yes, they do a lot with pulp and such ... he too is a passionate person who believes in his product :) One I considered until minnesotasmith pointed out all the problems with juicing that I was not aware of but will check out for myself. I prefer to 'get ideas' from others ... but research them on my own. I'm not one for "hearsay" ... :)

wasn't afraid, lol .... but thanks for putting his name in. It was more of a situation where, being sort of new to the site; I didn't know if it was legal to list names outside the site :) ... and yes, they do a lot with pulp and such ... he too is a passionate person who believes in his product :) One I considered until minnesotasmith pointed out all the problems with juicing that I was not aware of but will check out for myself. I prefer to 'get ideas' from others ... but research them on my own. I'm not one for "hearsay" ... :)

MS can speak for himself but I don't think he's anti-juice as long as you don't add sugar (use Stevia instead), just don't think of it as an entire meal, you still need to balance it out with other healthy foods, limited whole grains (not too many carbs at once) lean meats and dairy, basically what is referred to as the Paleolithic Diet.

Then, this shouldn't be objectionable:

"figuring out what (if anything) is the active agent, isolating it, synthesizing it so it can be mass-produced, prescribing it in double-blind studies where the people in charge have no incentive to find it useful to bias their results, then prescribing it in precisely known dosages."Certainly in some cases the active ingredients are more cheaply and easily isolated and synthesized than in others. For example, in the case of the pharmaceutical product Marinol, the effects aren't preferred by users to the effects of natural cannabis, since the isolated cannabinoid is just one of several different types of cannabiniod, the blends of which, especially in ratios only achieved through selection and breeding, are actually what produce the most desired effect. As far as waiting for researchers to gather and analyze precise data about herbs, well, I'm good with just learning what I can from where I can and trying things out. If the effect is satisfactory I'll purchase the product again. If society collapses and we're stuck in Mad Max world, "folk" remedies and flora-derived medicines might be all we have, and knowing a bit about them would be an advantage.

Re the astrology, Feng Shui (technically a type of animism, I believe, so technically pagan/pre-Christian), and such: why would you want someone to accept lies? Isn't knowing the truth as much as possible the essence of sentience, and the basis for making sound, adaptive decisions? (This is why I'm against cults, including PC as one as much as I do Scientology, as they hinder that for their adherents and anyone they have power over.)Yeah, I agree, religion and superstition have been quite the tools for the savvy oppressor throughout history as well as now, and some cults are definitely worse than others with regard to the way they exploit and exhort their adherents, but on the other hand, the human psyche is a frail thing, and if believing in life after death, salvation, messiahs, reincarnation, soothsaying, or some kind of parental deity helps someone get through the day a little easier or life a bit happier or helps them cope with the aspects of life that so frequently drag us down like grief, loss, etc. who am I to really argue with that? As long as they don't want to get too much in my face about it, I'm fine with it. Ya, know... whatever it takes. Is the guy who copes with cold hard truths you seem to think are so important by drowning himself in a bottle of liquor better off than some scientologist who feels better after excising his negative engrams or the little old lady who takes comfort from a church service and a bingo game? I dunno. I'm interested in the truth, but I totally respect someone's choice of blissful ignorance as well. I can really understand why its such a popular choice.

MS can speak for himself but I don't think he's anti-juice as long as you don't add sugar (use Stevia instead), just don't think of it as an entire meal, you still need to balance it out with other healthy foods, limited whole grains (not too many carbs at once) lean meats and dairy, basically what is referred to as the Paleolithic Diet.

There's really not much of a negative for juicing vegetables, other than losing the intestinal effects of their fiber. There's little increased glycemic index as a rule from doing that. Fruit juices are a different story. However, FJs (especially if there is no added sugar) still beat the heck out of nondiet soft drinks, coffee, sugar-sweetened black teas, etc. So, I personally drink a fair amount of fruit juices (such as 100% orange juice with maximum pulp included), but also eat a lot of whole (or no-sugar added) canned fruit, and dried fruit on the Trail.

Personally, I avoid nutritional advice dispensed by people who are obese, unhealthy, and have hidden agendas (like promoting or denigrating religion).

both diet and activity for 98% of us is the key. stop eating fast food, stay away from fried foods, sugar, etc and excercize on a regular basis. work on your cardio, eat nonprocessed foods and watch teh weight fall off. if we want it bad enough, we can do it. with 98% of us, it boils personal discipline and knowledge of how to loose the weight.

"People exceed the feed limit."

"If you can't pronounce it, don't eat it."

Jack LaLanne.


I do have a sweet tusk, however.

Certainly in some cases the active ingredients are more cheaply and easily isolated and synthesized than in others. For example, in the case of the pharmaceutical product Marinol, the effects aren't preferred by users to the effects of natural cannabis, since the isolated cannabinoid is just one of several different types of cannabiniod, the blends of which, especially in ratios only achieved through selection and breeding, are actually what produce the most desired effect.

I dunno. I'm interested in the truth, but I totally respect someone's choice of blissful ignorance as well. I can really understand why its such a popular choice.


Sage writing Bfitz.

Minnesota---as to the original post, agree 100%---255 to currently 175. It has taken literally more than seven years to get there.

How? What is the secret? There is not secret. Like the Goat said, I have simply burned more calories than I have consumed. I have been a full-on vegetarian in past (for me that really means a cheese-atarian) I have been a Mcdonalds and Chic Fil a junkie, I eat fine foods, I eat crap foods, I eat vegetables and I eat fresh fruits but no always. And I exercise on a pretty regular basis. Real sweat for an hour or more.

Over time the body lights up its burners.

If i decided to sit on my ass for an extended period of time and eat crap, I promis my metabolism would slow right on down.

Also MS, as to Quanitfieying and measuring and all that good stuff, the science does not matter--all that matters is if they can make a profit from it. Can't do it with Indian Hemp. By the way, the genie is out of the bottle, it is only a matter of time before the Feds just drop their enforcement. I would not have said that ten years ago.

peace
mf

...I feel that corn syrup is quite possiable the most evil substance in the world

Don't forget the high fructose con syrup, in everything.

How true, how true. Not just because of the fructose and how it affects your body but also because of the chemicals from the way industrial agriculture produces the corn.

How true, how true. Not just because of the fructose and how it affects your body but also because of the chemicals from the way industrial agriculture produces the corn.


have you all seen the newer adds on tv that are trying to make high fructose corn syrup sound okay??? i can't believe it....

Also there's high maltose corn syrup. Don't know if it's as bad as HFCS but I ain't real anxious to add any more corn syrup of any kind to my diet.

have you all seen the newer adds on tv that are trying to make high fructose corn syrup sound okay??? i can't believe it....

Aside from the health factor, I can't believe that soda manufactorers' taste tests haven't revealed inferior taste results for HFCS when compared to cane sugar. Then again, what do I know - I never drink soda anyway.

And if Coca-Cola claims they've used the same formula for decades or a 100 years, they're lying.

Aside from the health factor, I can't believe that soda manufactorers' taste tests haven't revealed inferior taste results for HFCS when compared to cane sugar. Then again, what do I know - I never drink soda anyway.

And if Coca-Cola claims they've used the same formula for decades or a 100 years, they're lying.


the adds weren't from any soda company, its from the corn refiners organization or something to that effect....it just blows me away how much any and every organization these days is using tv to manipulate the minds of us all, and unfortunately it works more than we want to admit!

LOL ... you do when you have a thyroid condition .. I barely eat one meal a day and then it's not a meal so my calorie intake is sad and I over exercise so I will disagree from experience not hearsay on this one. I still appreciate all the thoughts though ... I too hate meds so I will "listen" to anyone and form my own opinion :)

Your burn more calories than you ingest and gain weight? Hmmm...I think you broke the law of conservation of energy and matter.:D

Different body types, different medical conditions, etc., affect the 'efficiency' of the body's use of calories (metabolism, the conversion of food into energy). Age and gender also play a role. It all leads to some who gain weight on less calories than others. Conversely, that means some will lose weight more slowly than others given the same diet and exercise level. But no one gains weight when they burn more calories than they ingest ('weight' such as water retention excluded, of course). Weight loss/gain only results from a calorie imbalance.

None the less, it can be much more difficult and more uncomfortable for some folks to lose weight...and even that can change during different period's of an individual's life.

FB

the adds weren't from any soda company, its from the corn refiners organization or something to that effect....it just blows me away how much any and every organization these days is using tv to manipulate the minds of us all, and unfortunately it works more than we want to admit!

wak I just saw that video on Curret TV. it is made by a trade group.

c'mon, corn syrup is good for ya....

peace
mf

wak I just saw that video on Curret TV. it is made by a trade group.

c'mon, corn syrup is good for ya....

peace
mf

yep, thats the one. seriously, it just goes to show that maybe alot of other adds out there saying things are "safe" and "good for you" are full of it too....maybe people will wake up one of these days....

Twinkies, doritos, beer, the internet, T.V. do it for me.

Your burn more calories than you ingest and gain weight? Hmmm...I think you broke the law of conservation of energy and matter.:D

Different body types, different medical conditions, etc., affect the 'efficiency' of the body's use of calories (metabolism, the conversion of food into energy). Age and gender also play a role. It all leads to some who gain weight on less calories than others. Conversely, that means some will lose weight more slowly than others given the same diet and exercise level. But no one gains weight when they burn more calories than they ingest ('weight' such as water retention excluded, of course). Weight loss/gain only results from a calorie imbalance.

None the less, it can be much more difficult and more uncomfortable for some folks to lose weight...and even that can change during different period's of an individual's life.

FByou are entitled to your opinion like any other but I stand by the FACTS ... I'm not the lying sort :)

you are entitled to your opinion like any other but I stand by the FACTS ...

And here they are;

"...Instead, weight is dependent on the balance of total calories consumed versus total calories burned. Take in more calories than your body needs, and you gain weight. Take in less and you lose weight. Metabolism, then, is the engine that burns these calories...Though your metabolism influences your energy needs, it's your food intake and physical activity that ultimately determine your weight." (italics mine) From: "Metabolism and weight loss: How you burn calories" , MayoClinic.com, http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/metabolism/WT00006 (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/metabolism/WT00006)

FB

And here they are;

"...Instead, weight is dependent on the balance of total calories consumed versus total calories burned. Take in more calories than your body needs, and you gain weight. Take in less and you lose weight. Metabolism, then, is the engine that burns these calories...Though your metabolism influences your energy needs, it's your food intake and physical activity that ultimately determine your weight." (italics mine) From: "Metabolism and weight loss: How you burn calories" , MayoClinic.com, http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/metabolism/WT00006 (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/metabolism/WT00006)

FBthose are NOT fact for me, quite obviously for perhaps a majority. For me .. I eat once a day but work out twice. My meds from "9" doctors seem to be a factor. So the above does not work in MY case. Thanks for your "generic" input though but it is not accurate for all persons :)

those are NOT fact for me, quite obviously for perhaps a majority. For me .. I eat once a day but work out twice. My meds from "9" doctors seem to be a factor. So the above does not work in MY case. Thanks for your "generic" input though but it is not accurate for all persons :)

Well, it is a fact for you and every other eukaryote. You eat once each day? That is a HUGE mistake, that is about the best way possible to sabotage your metabolism. You are ensuring that a lot of what you eat will be converted to fat. You should eat 5-6 times daily, three or so small meals and two healthy snacks. Weighing and measuring your food will be essential when you start.

You should think of your metabolism as a funnel, the hole in the bottom of the funnel equates to your metabolism. The hole in the top equates to your mouth. If you pour more into the top of the funnel faster than it can run out the bottom, the funnel overflows. Likewise, if you eat more at one time than your body is currently metabolizing (particularly simple carbs and sugar), your insulin level goes up and your body stores the excess calories as FAT.

You should really check out Dr. Barry Sears' Zone Diet, you can get the book used at Amazon for 5-6 bucks. Achieving and maintaining a lean, healthy body is all about hormone management, and the only way to do that is by consuming the right types of foods at the right times.

Some sort of weight training program will likely be essential to your success, it'll also keep you away from walkers, wheelchairs, and nursing homes. Every pound of muscle you gain will boost your metabolism by 50 calories daily, 5# is a reasonable goal in one year. That is 250 calories daily you can consume and maintain the same body weight.

yes, I mentioned that prior ... that I'm aware it messes up the metabolism. I just don't get hungry or something and again ... I hate food. Once in a blue moon I may eat 2 meals but seldom. I just can't stuff things inside, not even an apple if I'm not hungry. Same goes for drinks ... I think I'm an alien, lol. Definitely not normal and I admit that :) So with you, I totally agree. I read all the books and do the studies. Tried these dumb teas trying to change what I drink etc. But my biggest problems is I hate food and smells which is why I thought perhaps I could drink them but in these post above was told "also not good due to fiber or something ... lack of rather" ... meats are about the only thing I eat and then very few things ... very few. I hate everything for real, not a joke. Can't get past the smell (see I'm not normal and admit that) ... desire ... IS there though. To eat right. So if I drink any juice ... it's a miracle for me. I hate all vegetable, sea food, beans, fruits (well I could eat an apple and a banana but don't like them) and can drink orange juice but I don't like to eat an orange .... I'm all messed up! I either gag or throw up the rest ... literally. Which is why I'd hoped to drink vegetables. Right now I take fruit and vegetable tabs. But my doctors also have me on steriods for various health issues and my thyroid meds aren't quite regulated either. So I have other obstacles and several 'broken" bones. So hey I'm 'active' pain and all so good grief ... give me some credit ... I'm not a couch potatoe or anything. I'm done on this thread .... I get enough crap about weight since i was skinny my entire life until recently, my doctors all fight with one another too on what is wrong and I'm getting no where. So I really have nothing else to say but thanks for trying to help :)

oh and I will add that Minnesotasmith and a few others (sorry I didn't go back through the thread to recognize more of you) but some of your were helpful and I did LEARN some things I did not know; so that part was advantageous for myself and probably others reading these posts :) So thanks to all of you who contributed with a good heart and great advice! :) Blessings to you :)

I'd apologize for hijacking this thread but you guys would know I didn't really mean it...:p

In PM, adventurousmtnlvr and I have agreed to disagree about the 'facts' and 'opinions' we posted above. Our personal positions need no further amplification and I think we'll both be returning this thread to its 'previously scheduled programming.':D

As for the OP -- over 10 years ago, the drug company Amgen got all excited about a 'fat gene' it was working with to control body weight. The dream was a drug that would work to stop weight gain. As I remember, the realization hit that it wasn't just that gene and there were other factors that triggered the metabolism and associated weight gain. While there seemed to be success with the famous 'laboratory mice", there wasn't any to speak of with humans. Amgen sold off the rights to their drug and other patentened work after having paid a bunch to buy them in the first place. I don't remember who bought them but it's pretty certain not much has resulted from that particular line of research.

FB

Well said Fiddleback :)

fyi for others with thyroid problems. If your doctors have NOT told you this (ask them yourselves to verify) ... but you may NOT take any sort of "diet pills" etc. with a thyroid problem. FYI only.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26611180/

Fighting the fat gene takes 3-4 hours a day
Or you can always live like the Amish, new research shows

The Associated Press
updated 2:14 p.m. MT, Mon., Sept. 8, 2008

"Maybe you CAN blame being fat on your genes. But there's a way to overcome that family history — just get three to four hours of moderate activity a day.

Sound pretty daunting?

Not for the Amish of Lancaster County, Pa., who were the focus of a new study on a common genetic variation that makes people more likely to gain weight. It turns out the variant's effects can be blocked with physical activity — lots of it.

Scientists believe about 30 percent of white people of European ancestry have this variant, including the Amish, and that may partly explain why so many people are overweight.

But fighting that fat factor may be easier in the Amish community's 19th century rural lifestyle. They don't use cars or modern appliances. Many of the men are farmers and carpenters, and the women, who are homemakers, often care for several children.

The researchers found that Amish people with the genetic variant were no more likely to be overweight than those who had the regular version of the gene — as long as they got three to four hours of moderate activity every day. That included things like brisk walking, housecleaning and gardening.

And while physical activity is recommended for just about everyone, the study suggests that people with the gene variation need to be especially vigilant about getting exercise.

"These findings emphasize the important role of physical activity in public health efforts to combat obesity, particularly in genetically susceptible people," the authors wrote in Monday's Archives of Internal Medicine.

Study co-author Dr. Soren Snitker of the University of Maryland acknowledged that it's unrealistic to expect most people to shun modern conveniences and return to a 19th century lifestyle for the sake of staying trim.

Every little bit helps
But he said every little bit helps, and that adding an extra few hours of activity daily might not be as hard as it seems.

Instead of watching TV for a few hours at night, take a brisk walk, he suggested. Or use stairs instead of elevators, walk instead of driving, or take up a structured exercise such as swimming.

Previous research based on self-reporting of physical activity has produced similar results. The new study used a more reliable measure — battery-operated monitoring devices worn round-the-clock for a week, said lead author Evadnie Rampersaud of the University of Miami.

More research is needed to see if similar results would be found in other racial and ethnic groups, said Amy Zlot, a genetics researcher with Oregon's Department of Human Services, who was not involved in the study.

The Amish study involved 704 people; blood samples determined which of those had a variation in the FTO gene linked to obesity. Among those with the variant, those who got about three or four hours of moderate physical activity a day weighed up to about 15 pounds less on average than the least active people.

Big trouble for couch potatoes
The least active group would be comparable to Americans who get little exercise beyond normal activities of daily living, Snitker said.

The authors said it is not clear how the FTO gene influences excess weight, but it is believed to be involved in the function of a protein that may affect how the body regulates food intake.

"It's only if you're not active that the gene hurts," Snitker said. "If you are active, then either way, it doesn't matter whether you have the gene or not."

So far, blood tests identifying the gene variant are only available for research. Experts say there are likely many other genetic differences that also influence obesity, so it is too soon to recommend routine testing for the general public.

Dr. Joel Hirschhorn, a genetics and obesity researcher at Children's Hospital Boston, said people should not interpret the study to mean, "I don't have this gene variant so I don't need to be physically active."

He noted that other obesity gene variants might also be affected by physical activity, which has benefits beyond helping people stay trim."This is simply not true, nor how things work. Everybody is different. Barring physical problems, like the body malfunctioning, some people are much more predisposed to "become" fatter and have weight issues than other's. The "seeds" are sown (fat cells) when a person is very young i.e., still in their mother's womb, when a little child, and when around their early teen years. During this period, if the individual is i.e. fat.or becomes fat (like in fat baby) the fat cells are grown. After this period, they do not grow any more, and a person who has been thin during this time will have way fewer than the fatter individual. Once these cells are in place, all they need is for the individual to eat the wrong foods, and not include exercise and contol their stress levels, and GUESS WHAT? FAT CITY! And a trip to FAT CITY seldom reverses itself without a very focussed, disciplined effort! This is why we see the person who can eat anything, and plenty of it, and they never really seem to gain weight, while the "heavily fat celled" person eats like a bird and still can't seem to lose. These fat cells can be "shrunk" by a prolonged disciplined effort of eating right, avoiding alcohol, and thru incorporating exercise into the picture. These fat cells however will always remain, lying in dormancy and waiting to fill up the moment the heavily fat celled individual decides to "fall off the wagon" so to speak. And the only way to get rid of these is with surgery. As far as doing things with exercise only? This is hogwash. Your eating habits are THEE most important item, followed by exercise ,Aerobic and anerobic,if healthy enough to participate in( BEST TO GET DOCTOR'S CLEARANCE FIRST)and distress control.

As someone who's lost a lot of weight, aside from the people who actually do have genetic problems, weight loss is simply a numbers game. If you eat less calories than it takes for your body to maintain itself, you will lose weight. December 15th 2006 I weighed 410 lbs. Today I am down to around 250 and maintaining simply through diet and exercise. And by diet I don't mean a fad diet, I mean eating whatever I wanted to eat, just not eating enough of it to feed a farm animal.

It really is a massive undertaking and the difficulty is 100% mental. Physically after about a week of eating normally my body was used to it. From then on it was just a matter of convincing my mind to stay the course.

And as for hiking, I picked it up this summer after not having set foot in the woods since I was 10 in the cub scouts, and it's some of the best exercise I've ever gotten. Especially now since I'm getting into backpacking. Carrying 30-40 lbs on your back and climbing mountains is like running and doing deadlifts/squats all at the same time. It's great :D

As someone who's lost a lot of weight, aside from the people who actually do have genetic problems, weight loss is simply a numbers game. If you eat less calories than it takes for your body to maintain itself, you will lose weight. December 15th 2006 I weighed 410 lbs. Today I am down to around 250 and maintaining simply through diet and exercise. And by diet I don't mean a fad diet, I mean eating whatever I wanted to eat, just not eating enough of it to feed a farm animal.

It really is a massive undertaking and the difficulty is 100% mental. Physically after about a week of eating normally my body was used to it. From then on it was just a matter of convincing my mind to stay the course.

And as for hiking, I picked it up this summer after not having set foot in the woods since I was 10 in the cub scouts, and it's some of the best exercise I've ever gotten. Especially now since I'm getting into backpacking. Carrying 30-40 lbs on your back and climbing mountains is like running and doing deadlifts/squats all at the same time. It's great :D


you da man brother.....keep rocking.

peace
mf

As someone who's lost a lot of weight, aside from the people who actually do have genetic problems, weight loss is simply a numbers game. If you eat less calories than it takes for your body to maintain itself, you will lose weight. December 15th 2006 I weighed 410 lbs. Today I am down to around 250 and maintaining simply through diet and exercise. And by diet I don't mean a fad diet, I mean eating whatever I wanted to eat, just not eating enough of it to feed a farm animal.

It really is a massive undertaking and the difficulty is 100% mental. Physically after about a week of eating normally my body was used to it. From then on it was just a matter of convincing my mind to stay the course.

And as for hiking, I picked it up this summer after not having set foot in the woods since I was 10 in the cub scouts, and it's some of the best exercise I've ever gotten. Especially now since I'm getting into backpacking. Carrying 30-40 lbs on your back and climbing mountains is like running and doing deadlifts/squats all at the same time. It's great :D

God bless you, MoFi (would make a nice trail name, no?)
There are real genetic and physical reasons why people have weight problems.
Proper diet and moderate exercise, as you stated, are the key to staying ahead of genetic predispositions. At some point, however, meds may be needed to help win the battle. Seems as though you've won several battles. Good luck in the future. Life, in many ways, is one long war.

Sorry, Kauffee. MoFi comment was obviously intended for Mother's Finest who quoted you in his post. The rest of my message is to you. Awesome job.

God bless you, MoFi (would make a nice trail name, no?)
There are real genetic and physical reasons why people have weight problems.
Proper diet and moderate exercise, as you stated, are the key to staying ahead of genetic predispositions. At some point, however, meds may be needed to help win the battle. Seems as though you've won several battles. Good luck in the future. Life, in many ways, is one long war.

I was wondering about the MoFi remark. :P

But yeah, there definitely are several medical reasons why one could be more predisposed to gaining and keeping on weight, but no matter what in 99% of cases cutting calories and doing even light exercise. When I started I was doing cardio for 1.5 hours a day 7 days a week, until I blew my knee out. I had to stop to let that heal and kept losing weight in the interim, usually 6-8 lbs a week (sometimes as much as 10) simply by diet alone. Once my knee was healed I resumed exercising, but much more moderately. I walked 45 minutes a night 3 nights a week.

As far as the people who do have glandular conditions medications will absolutely help get things started, but aren't really necessary. I'm in the school of thinking that most of these conditions, while perhaps not started by obesity, are at least kept in place by being unhealthily overweight. Once their metabolism is boosted from eating right and getting moderate exercise 3 times a week or more the rest usually falls into place, with or without pills.

Also calling them battles is a good assessment, and I have indeed won a good deal of them in the past two years. As I said it's all psychological and I am just now, two years later, starting to get down to the core reasons that caused me to balloon up to that weight in the first place. I'm actually in the middle of that battle right now, wee. It's alright though because since I am fighting as both sides, no matter the outcome I am still the victor. Cheers!