View Full Version : 20 Mpd
littlebill31
09-09-2008, 18:34
Is it possible to go 20 miles per day nobo even through New England? Trying to figure out my method of nobo madness for '09.
Is it possible to go 20 miles per day nobo even through New England? Trying to figure out my method of nobo madness for '09.Why? You don't have the time to slow down and enjoy?
By New England I am going to assume that you mean the Whites and Maine. You can, but it will take a good bit more effort. Also once you get up there flat spots to camp are harder to find so you will have to stick more to the designated campsites. This really is not something to worry about until you get up there.
_terrapin_
09-09-2008, 18:45
IMO, a consistent 20 MPD between Hanover and Monson would be well beyond the comfort level of most thru-hikers. Not impossible, but not likely, either.
Two weeks ago, we met a NOBO on Lafayette at noon. He said he had already completed 15 miles in the morning and was going for another 10 or so. He claims he started June 3 and took 16 zeros to get from Springer to Lafayette by August 24, averaging 25-30 miles per day, which adds up.
He said he met and chatted with Karl for a few minutes and thought Karl had the determination to set the record. I hated to inform him that Karl was injured and zeroing himself, but was looking to continue anyway. I recall an entry in Karl's blog about this guy as well.
HikerRanky
09-09-2008, 19:01
Is it possible to go 20 miles per day nobo even through New England? Trying to figure out my method of nobo madness for '09.
I would say that 20mpd is going to be very rough in the New England area... especially the area between Gentian Pond and Grafton Notch.... Little area there called Mahoosuc Notch and Mahoosuc Arm.... Figure on about 1 hour just to get thru the Notch.... and then the climb up the Arm.... that is an elevation change of 1,620' over a 1.6 mile distance....
Is there a reason that you need to do 20mpd? That gives you 108 days on the trail with no zero days....
~20 MPD (or more?) Having fun? And over 30? IMPOSSIBLE!
Er..maybe not... :-?
http://trailjournals.com/thedeliduo/
50 yo and 60+.
If you read their journal, they had a blast.
I just hiked with Andy (Garlic) Sunday.
He spoke very well of his AT experience. He did the trail in less than 3.5 months.
Not bad for a couple of "old" guys.
:)
Blissful
09-09-2008, 20:29
No. Unless you are Speedgoat or something (see the Karl Meltzer thread) and are used to that kind of work-out.
BTW - welcome to White Blaze. :)
Lone Wolf
09-09-2008, 20:34
Is it possible to go 20 miles per day nobo even through New England? Trying to figure out my method of nobo madness for '09.
yes it is. as long as your pack is light and you are fit, 20s are very doable in the north
The thing with this, is...it may be fine...but
what about weather? your state of mind? resupply? potential hiking partners? being worn out from hiking 1800 miles?
20 mi every day...of course is possible. But you won't know til you get there.
Then again, disregard me. I've just drank 4 Yuenglings...can't get them in IN so I'm taking advantage....
Did anyone read what I just wrote?
One of friends, who just turned *FIFTY* hiked the AT in less than 3.5 mos with his buddy who is 60+ years old.
They had a blast.
They are not athletes.
They just walked all day, had light packs and had fun.
They did not feel rushed. They did not complain. They did not feel worn out.
You do not have to be an uber-athlete.
8-10 hrs a day of simply walking.
Granted, these two are experienced backpackers. But, it ain't rocket science.
I think it is more of mental barrier than a physical barrier for most AT hikers to do 15-20 MPD.
_terrapin_
09-09-2008, 21:39
I think it is more of mental barrier than a physical barrier for most AT hikers to do 15-20 MPD.
15-20 isn't that tough outside of New England. But in the Whites? In southern Maine? Sustained?
I'll bet less than 5% of thru hikers actually do that.
15-20 isn't that tough outside of New England. But in the Whites? In southern Maine? Sustained?
I'll bet less than 5% of thru hikers actually do that.
Most don't, but it is probably mental (and partially due to heavy packs, too)
15 MPD is 1.5 MPH average pace walking 10 hrs a day.
Read the journal I pointed out. Two guys who are eligible for AARP did it...AND HAD FUN! :)
15-20 isn't that tough outside of New England. But in the Whites? In southern Maine? Sustained?
I'll bet less than 5% of thru hikers actually do that.
I'm a 50+ish, out of shape fart and recently managed two 9-mile days and 1-ten mile day in the Whites, along with some 6-7 mile days, no bigee.
Did anyone read what I just wrote?
One of friends, who just turned *FIFTY* hiked the AT in less than 3.5 mos with his buddy who is 60+ years old.
They had a blast.
They are not athletes.
They just walked all day, had light packs and had fun.
They did not feel rushed. They did not complain. They did not feel worn out.
You do not have to be an uber-athlete.
8-10 hrs a day of simply walking.
Granted, these two are experienced backpackers. But, it ain't rocket science.
I think it is more of mental barrier than a physical barrier for most AT hikers to do 15-20 MPD.
That is very cool... and they ain't even OLD! :)
_terrapin_
09-09-2008, 22:23
I'm a 50+ish, out of shape fart and recently managed two 9-mile days and 1-ten mile day in the Whites, along with some 6-7 mile days, no bigee.
Right, but the OP is asking about 20 MPD, in New England. And I'm assuming that's 20 MPD "sustained" -- not just an isolated 20-mile day here and there.
I was able to do 15 MPD, sustained, over six weeks last summer, at age 55, in the middle third of the AT. Big whoop. I wouldn't expect to maintain that rate in the Whites or southern Maine -- no way, no how.
Again, I am not saying it can't be done -- we all know it can, and has been done. I'm only saying that very few would enjoy moving at this rate, in New England, and very few do.
yeah, its possible, but mostly you won't see that miliage from someone who is just starting a hike, go w/ your body, do what is comfortable, set a time limit and don't care how far you get or find a way to get rid of your time limit and go how ever far u want
Right, but the OP is asking about 20 MPD, in New England. And I'm assuming that's 20 MPD "sustained" -- not just an isolated 20-mile day here and there.
I was able to do 15 MPD, sustained, over six weeks last summer, at age 55, in the middle third of the AT. Big whoop. I wouldn't expect to maintain that rate in the Whites or southern Maine -- no way, no how.
Again, I am not saying it can't be done -- we all know it can, and has been done. I'm only saying that very few would enjoy moving at this rate, in New England, and very few do.
The OP is a young fella. MAGs talked about high mileage by some older fellas. I talked to a young fella who averaged 25-30 from Springer to the Whites and had done 15 by noon on Lafayette. It can be done, but surely not by just anyone.
_terrapin_
09-09-2008, 22:42
The OP is a young fella. MAGs talked about high mileage by some older fellas. I talked to a young fella who averaged 25-30 from Springer to the Whites and had done 15 by noon on Lafayette. It can be done, but surely not by just anyone.
I'm not disputing any of that. If OP wants encouragement or rah-rah, he's free to take that from Lone Wolf or Mags or maybe fiddlehead or Crumbsnatcher. There's no shortage of speed demons on this site, and folks who love to kick a$$ on the trail, but I'm not one of them.
I'There's no shortage of speed demons on this site, and folks who love to kick a$$ on the trail, but I'm not one of them.
Sigh.
Hiking LONG is different from hiking FAST.
I certainly don't hike fast..but I do love to walk all day.
As I walk, as I walk..the universe is walking with me.
Notice the Navajo did not say "As I camp..as I camp.." :)
There is something intoxicating about walking from sunrise to sunset. Seeing the natural rhythms of the day unfold. Experiencing the first light of alpenglow, smelling the sage brush at a desert twilight, feeling the wind pick up as the day ends and experiencing the morning dew.
I love to walk.
I love to see the mountains all day.
I've been in camp early. It can be fun.
But in my heart of hearts, I love to simply walk all day.
I am not "conquering the trail". I am experiencing it all day.
I am not walking fast. I am just walking.
If you can't honestly see the difference between hiking fast and hiking long than I don't know what to say. Our philosophical viewpoints are too different.
Look at my site and tell me I am trying to "conquer" the trail and "kick ass"?
_terrapin_
09-09-2008, 23:17
Look at my site and tell me I am trying to "conquer" the trail and "kick ass"?
This isn't about you or about me. It isn't about "hiking philosophy." It's not about smart or stupid or right or wrong.
The OP asked for opinions. I offered mine, in the simplest possible terms. I said what I meant and meant what I said. No more and no less. I'm done with this thread.
jersey joe
09-09-2008, 23:55
Sigh.
Hiking LONG is different from hiking FAST.
Mags you are so right with this statement. Somehow this concept doesn't get understood very well by a lot of people. I hear lots of people categorize someone who hikes 20mpd as a speed demon when they in fact just might be hiking the better part of the day. I hiked the trail averaging just about 20 miles per day in 02' and I began with a pack weight of over 60lbs...littlebill31, isn't easy, but it can be done for sure and I'd even recommend it if you are in good shape and have the desire to do it. If you are interested you can check out my daily mileage here: http://geocities.com/joegamehike/miles.html
Might help in planning out your "madness"...
Unless you are Flying Brian, or a speedster, it's hard to imagine doing 20 mile days consistenly through New England.
But, to each their own.
Obviously you have to be mentally focused and be fit to do it, a light pack would help greatly but it can be done. 12 hours at 1.67 MPH will get you 20 miles a day. 1.67 MPH isn't fast at all.
_terrapin_
09-10-2008, 09:43
Obviously you have to be mentally focused and be fit to do it, a light pack would help greatly but it can be done. 12 hours at 1.67 MPH will get you 20 miles a day. 1.67 MPH isn't fast at all.
Have you actually walked 20 miles in a day, in the Whites? :-? Or is this simply "playing with numbers?"
Most don't, but it is probably mental (and partially due to heavy packs, too)
15 MPD is 1.5 MPH average pace walking 10 hrs a day.
Read the journal I pointed out. Two guys who are eligible for AARP did it...AND HAD FUN! :)
I hiked for a bit with these two guys -- Garlic and Pickle -- in southern VA just south of Atkins. They were having a great time, each had packs with a base weight of about 9 lbs, and covered the miles by walking rather than hanging around in camp. As I recall from their journal, they took only 3-4 zero days during the entire thru and tented far more often than using shelters. Both had experience from distance hiking in the West and when I talked to them said that the key for them was keeping things as light as possible. I think their combination of very light packs and a decision to spend most of their time walking rather than sitting made +20 mile days easy for them (even in New England).
can one hike 20 mpd plus in the whites? yes and some do. I am constantly amazed at what is proven to be possible.
It certainly would not be easy. Some love to hike all day, take no breaks, or go fast as possible. To each their own I guess, but that's not me.
Personally, after about 18 miles in a day I am not having much fun. Plus I would not want to do more than 10 or so miles in a day the Whites and Mahoosices. The trerrain is very rugged and the scenery amazing.
David
jersey joe
09-10-2008, 10:02
If your goal is to average 20mpd on your entire through hike, a good strategy would be to expect to average higher mileage in the middle states as mileage would come easier, and less mileage at the ends(including the whites).
If your goal is to average 20mpd on your entire through hike, a good strategy would be to expect to average higher mileage in the middle states as mileage would come easier, and less mileage at the ends(including the whites).
Or just get out there and see what is realistic for you.
Johnny Swank
09-10-2008, 11:45
Sigh.
Hiking LONG is different from hiking FAST.
I certainly don't hike fast..but I do love to walk all day.
As I walk, as I walk..the universe is walking with me.
Notice the Navajo did not say "As I camp..as I camp.." :)
That's how we roll. My wife and I get bored as hell in camp, so we just stroll from dawn till dusk. Take long breaks, cook over a fire around 3pm, swim, ...whatever. Keeping the pack weight down to under 15-20lbs with everything is key to this though. We regularly cover 20+ miles a day, and don't spend alot of time in towns, but as always, YMMV.
littlebill31
09-10-2008, 12:01
Thanks guys for the incite. Just wanted a base line. How are the Whites compared to Folsom to Carson city in the Sierra Nevadas? McConnell peak was a "hoot".
_terrapin_
09-10-2008, 12:05
From my limited experience with the PCT: the PCT is better graded than the Whites. The AT in the Whites often follows the fall line directly. Switchbacks are the exception, rather than the rule.
Kerosene
09-10-2008, 12:45
I've found that my total daily mileage during the long daylight hours of summer (15 hours/day) increases a lot as I choose to hike after dinner. Last year I averaged 23 mpd from Atkins to Damascus without being in backpacking shape. I was, however, in good physical shape, carried a total pack weight of 25 pounds, wore boots that fit my feet well, and had perfect low-humidity weather on an easy trail.
Compromise on one or more of those attributes -- physical shape, pack weight, physical health, weather, trail surface -- and daily mileage will tend to suffer at some point. I certainly felt that I could have continued at that pace for quite awhile.
The trail surface through the Whites is much more difficult, and bad weather can slow things down a lot. As I walked through in September, daylight was much more limited (12 hours/day) and I wasn't going to try hiking after dark. My typical 2.0-2.6 mph pace dropped to 1.0-1.5 mph, influenced by the rocks, roots, and very steep trail. Consequently, I only averaged 11 mpd, despite perfect weather (of course, we spent a lot of time above treeline taking incredible pictures). In the summer I think I could have upped that to 15 mpd, and if I had been on the trail for a few weeks I could have pumped that up to 20 through some areas. However, I'm not sure that I'd plan to go that far every day.
From Springer to Glencliff, NH, 20mpd is a good mileage for fit, seratonin-loving hikers. From Glencliff to Monson, it is still completely doable, but a bit harder - because of the terrain in the Whites it's hard to fall into a good rhythm with the walking, and I found that I'd just get fed up with picking over roots/rocks before I really got all that physically worn out. I went from Glencliff to Gorham, about 125 miles I think, in 4.5 days, so 25+mpd, which was really hard, but again, possible.
john gault
09-10-2008, 17:10
...and I found that I'd just get fed up with picking over roots/rocks before I really got all that physically worn out...
It was pretty much the same for me; as a thru-hiker the Whites isn't all that physically tough, but (at least for me) it was mentally tough because of all the scrambling I had to do. Up to that point my body and mind were conditioned for just walking and walking...But now I had to pause here and there for looking for a place to step or to grab on to. The Whites are easy for a thru-hiker, if you can get your mind into it.
Yep. I was used to letting my level of intensity dictate the pace, but in the Whites you have to just go with the flow and let the terrain speed your or slow you as it will. Trying to push will just cause an accident.
Jack Tarlin
09-10-2008, 19:47
Glencliff to Gorham is actually just over 100 miles, not 125, but 4.5 days would still be considered very good time for this section.
It's also a pace that most folks would not want to do, but that's up to you.
There are plenty of places in Northern New England where even average hikers can achieve 20 mile days, but to do this consistently, every day,
would prove very difficult for most folks.
Cutter185
09-11-2008, 15:46
Glencliff to Gorham is actually just over 100 miles, not 125, but 4.5 days would still be considered very good time for this section.
It's also a pace that most folks would not want to do, but that's up to you.
There are plenty of places in Northern New England where even average hikers can achieve 20 mile days, but to do this consistently, every day,
would prove very difficult for most folks.
We took 6.5 days from Gorham to Hanover. It is not impossible to maintain 20mpd through the Whites, just hard and trying.You might find yourself hiking around 6am and not getting to the huts or finding a spot till around sunset.
I think a harder part to maintain that would be in South Maine. You kind of need to rely on the lean-tos to sleep, flat spots are hard to come by near good water. I found myself hiking lean-to to lean-to sometimes forcing you to hike like 12 miles or 27.It was hard but you deff get the miles in that way.
Just do a bunch of 30-50 mpd in the south then you can relax and only need to put in around 15 through NH and south Maine.
I held a consistent 20 MPD pace in New England until Glencliff, at which point I hit the brakes for the Whites, although I picked up the pace again once through the Bigelows in Maine.
Kirby
CrumbSnatcher
09-13-2008, 00:08
I'm not disputing any of that. If OP wants encouragement or rah-rah, he's free to take that from Lone Wolf or Mags or maybe fiddlehead or Crumbsnatcher. There's no shortage of speed demons on this site, and folks who love to kick a$$ on the trail, but I'm not one of them.i think mags hit the nail on the head! i hike long, not fast! 0-18 hours a day... for me, not for anyone else. i dont look for attention from you or anyone else. i encourage and rah-rah :-?myself,i guess? just doing what i want to do. im polite to others on the trail,do a little trail work now and then and pretty much stay to myself. not sure if you were talking bad about me or not on this thread. i always enjoyed your post,
still do. even though i was called a tall teller when i told you i hiked 26 miles to pinkham notch.by 5 0r 6 pm. being told i was lying and or compensating. judging me before even meeting me, or knowing anything about me. its cool though, i usually like to see what terrapin has to say. he is my 514th best friend:D
CrumbSnatcher
09-13-2008, 00:21
Is it possible to go 20 miles per day nobo even through New England? Trying to figure out my method of nobo madness for '09. weather permitting yes,(you can do it in bad weather too, but the views are spectacular) southern maine much tougher section. fast,slow,day,night just make the most out of it! trust your body. fun to go fast, just as much fun to slow down and smell the roses. :)i think terripen has peoples best intrest in mind.
knicksin2010
09-13-2008, 02:10
My average for the last 505 miles nobo was just over 20 mpd including 1 nero and a half dozen half days.
I was hardly in the best shape of my life when I started. My finger tips toughened up with some of the climbs, and it rained every day in Maine, but it felt like a pretty laid back pace to me.
Had the hike been a few weeks earlier I'd have been slowed down by snow.
Dirty Harry
09-13-2008, 03:03
Mags had alot of good to say. I averaged 20ish thru NH, Maine and most of the AT when I hiked. I enjoy putting in some hours when I hike. Its fun to challenge your self on AT, especially when your thru-hiking the trail and getting into super shape. NH and Maine just involve longer days sometimes. Miles per day, not miles per hour.
Dirty Harry
09-13-2008, 03:31
This is a cool thread the more I read on.... I have to say I like to hike. Ive put in 40s, 50,s and loved it. Over nights, sun up to sun down, then sun up again. Night hiking is great. I try to push a strong pace constantly, I listen to music on a regular basis when I hike, except mornings, and love a good down hill when the music is just right. I hiked with Pickle and Garlic a little this year thru New England and those guys had a great pace. For there age its awsome. I love the mountains especially the Appalachians, I love the opportunity they give to hike big miles thru, and see so much. I mean you guys know the ol saying right?
CrumbSnatcher
09-13-2008, 11:16
This is a cool thread the more I read on.... I have to say I like to hike. Ive put in 40s, 50,s and loved it. Over nights, sun up to sun down, then sun up again. Night hiking is great. I try to push a strong pace constantly, I listen to music on a regular basis when I hike, except mornings, and love a good down hill when the music is just right. I hiked with Pickle and Garlic a little this year thru New England and those guys had a great pace. For there age its awsome. I love the mountains especially the Appalachians, I love the opportunity they give to hike big miles thru, and see so much. I mean you guys know the ol saying right? sounds alot like my hiking style, dirty harry where'd you hit your 50 mpds at? good music powers me up hill.marathon hiking is a blast! like you said,sometimes 30 hours of hiking straight, sometimes sleeping at night sometimes sleeping during the day. i have also mastered the 7 zero days in a row, thats harder than 40 mile days:-? would love to hike the presidential range on a night hike! i think terripen gave me that idea? not sure.
Is it possible to go 20 miles per day nobo even through New England? Trying to figure out my method of nobo madness for '09.
Yes, although it will be very difficult through the White Mountains and Western Maine. I hiked from Hanover to Glencliff in 2 tough days , and slowed down in the Whites. The key is to use the daylight that is afforded you each day. Break camp at first light and try and get in 10 miles by noon - and 20 should come relatively easy.
Don't listen to the folks who encourage you to slow down and "smell the roses." Do what YOU want to do. You're out there for months - immersed in the out of doors. If you're reasonably attentive, you'll see just about as much as anyone else - regardless of your pace.
HYOH. Have a blast!
CrumbSnatcher
09-13-2008, 11:34
Yes, although it will be very difficult through the White Mountains and Western Maine. I hiked from Hanover to Glencliff in 2 tough days , and slowed down in the Whites. The key is to use the daylight that is afforded you each day. Break camp at first light and try and get in 10 miles by noon - and 20 should come relatively easy.
Don't listen to the folks who encourage you to slow down and "smell the roses." Do what YOU want to do. You're out there for months - immersed in the out of doors. If you're reasonably attentive, you'll see just about as much as anyone else - regardless of your pace.
HYOH. Have a blast!
well said, i said go fast or slow down and smell the roses. ALWAYS HYOH
Dirty Harry
09-13-2008, 16:44
We did a 50 going into Damascus. We walked into " The Place" around 7:30 am ready for some sleep. I did the 4 state challenge in 05 and decided to do 57 instead of the 52 to get to a hotel as a nice little reward. That 57 was the easiest longest day Ive had simply because it was not overnight and we finished by night fall, but we had to start at 2:00 AM. Those days you remember, their hard but well worth it.
CrumbSnatcher
09-14-2008, 00:21
We did a 50 going into Damascus. We walked into " The Place" around 7:30 am ready for some sleep. I did the 4 state challenge in 05 and decided to do 57 instead of the 52 to get to a hotel as a nice little reward. That 57 was the easiest longest day Ive had simply because it was not overnight and we finished by night fall, but we had to start at 2:00 AM. Those days you remember, their hard but well worth it.
what time did you start? sounds like you hiked in from kincora? or near by. (THE TENNESSEE TURNPIKE)thats on my itinerary for next year.i was going to start about 4 in the morning and head for the place.thats cool. i know lonewolf hiked the 40+ into damascus in about 11 hours. and hell yes whats another 5 miles for a motel:D
MileMonster
09-16-2008, 23:53
Certainly doable but, yes, more difficult than some other parts of the trail. I post only to point out that there are stretches of the trail in the Whites where dispersed camping is technically not allowed. If you follow the rules this may force you into some very long days if you want to make sure you're getting a 20+ mpd average. I didn't take the time to look over the distances between shelters and lean-to's, but it is not likely that a legal campsite will show up every day right at 20 miles. Maybe I'm wrong, though. And, yes, I know all about stealth camping. Just make sure you crunch the numbers so there is a place to lay down when these tiring days are done.
Have fun.
- MM.