Name: Ernest Engman (AKA SGT Rock)
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Height: 5' 8"
Weight: 155 pounds
Email address: sgtrock@hikinghq.net
City and State: Fort Polk, Louisiana
Date: 24 April 2002

Backpacking Background: I've been backpacking and hiking as long as I can remember. My first overnight backpacking trip was in the late 70's on the Appalachian Trail. Places I've hiked: 350 miles of the Appalachian Trail - sections in Georgia, North Carolina, Virginia, and West Virginia. Bankhead Forest, Alabama. Sipsey Forest, Alabama. Pinhoti Trail, Alabama. Mammoth Cave National Park, Kentucky. Desert of New Mexico and Texas north of El Paso. Kistatchie National Forest, Louisiana. Slick Rock/Joyce Kilmer Forest, North Carolina. Cradle of forestry in America, North Carolina. Standing Indian Trails, North Carolina. Many more. My current gear selection is in the lightweight realm with a summer base weight between 10-11 pounds and a winter base of 13.75 pounds.

Similar products used: Go-Lite pack, homemade mesh rucksack, Lowe Alpine internal frame pack, Peak1 internal frame pack, and Lodestone internal frame packs.

Location: Tests were conducted in the Kistatchie National Forest and in the Ozark Mountains on the Eagle Rock Loop.

Description of location:

Kistatchie - west central Louisiana 90 meters above sea level in pine forests with some hardwoods mostly level and easy trails.

Ozark mountains - southwest Arkansas with mountains that achieve 1500' gains and losses and has numerous river crossings. Vegetation includes a mix of hard wood and pines with a good deal of underbrush and briars.

This review is also at www.hikinghq.net but with pictures.

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Weight (manufacturer): 16-28oz depending on options

Weight (tested): 28.0 oz

Capacity: Adjusts from 2500 to 6500 cubic inches (41 to 106.5 liters)

Frame type: none

Price: $125 (varies according to options)

URL: www.moonbowgear.com

E-mail: info@moonbowgear.com - preferred method of contact.

Phone: 1 (800) Moonbow (1 (800) 666-6269) - LEAVE A MESSAGE!

Most weight carried: 50 lbs

This review is also on my site Hiking HQ.

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The Story

In April 2002 I started looking at buying a new backpack. I had come to the conclusion that I would probably not get my pack weight below 20 pounds and the mesh backpack was not very comfortable when carrying over 25 pounds for long periods. Which is what I would most likely carry on hikes. The prime candidate was the Mountainsmith Ghost, which only weighs about 38 ounces and has a capacity of 3100 C.I. My main problems with getting the Ghost were the $200 price tag and the 3100 C.I. capacity which I would have trouble living with. Although I have been very successful at dropping pack weight, for some reason my bulk is still in the 4500 C. I. range.

Then one day I got an e-mail from Rosaleen about letting Jonathan McCue of Moonbowgear use my rock/stake bag idea, and also about this cool pack that he had called a Gearskin that she intended to hook into a Hennessy Hammock. I immediately jumped to the site and was quite impressed by the pack design, as well as many other lightweight tents, tarps, bags, sacks, etc. The funny part is I almost never got the message because of an e-mail error. Fortunately Rosaleen decided to send it again or I would never have found this pack.

So I approached Jonathan McCue about getting one of his packs as a test model, which he very graciously agreed to, and even made sure I got the custom options I wanted instead of just sending me an old model sitting around the place. Talk about your service!

Later I did an owners review as part of a Backpack Gear Test official test. Note however this was not a review as an official tester but rather a review as an owner.

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Construction

What makes the Gearskin different is that it really isn't a pack in the traditional sense. It is a piece of cloth about 13" wide and 57.5" long forming a containment system. At the top/bottom ends are two quick release buckles and on each side are another four quick release buckles. Attached to the "back" is a very well designed load carrying system with a haul loop, tapering padded shoulder straps with an adjustable position sternum strap, load lifting straps, and a 5 1/2" wide padded hip belt. I would venture to say the actual strap system is just as well built as that of any high end internal frame backpack you can find. But there aren't any stays or frame. I found that it didn't need any.


The material of the one I tested was black "pack cloth" which I suspected was Cordura nylon but turns out is a tough nylon, but not actually Cordura. I chose the pack cloth instead of sil-nylon because I was worried about the durability of the sil-nylon version. I trust myself to take care of a sil-nylon backpack while trail hiking, but sometimes I will go cross country in rugged terrain and will also occasionally use my gear at work (the Army), so I decided to get a pack cloth version for abrasion resistance. The only added option I asked for and got, was a mesh pocket on the back for packing my wet tarp and water bottle in. After using the pack, I found that the pocket might not have been necessary because I could have hung the tarp on the pack by stuffing it under a couple of straps, and strapping the water bottle in with one of the side straps like a water bottle holster.

Weights listed on the Moonbow site are "about a pound" but mine was 28.0 ounces, I suspect the 16 ounce version would be for a sil-nylon model without additional pockets. To answer that, Jonathan McCue said this:

"It really depends on the materials used, the size of the harness and any extra pockets. The weight I give of about a lb. is a sil/nylon version with a less generous sized harness that works for me just fine. However I'm not a very big guy and some folks like a larger harness for comfort because they are carrying more weight."

Another point that should be mentioned in this section is that every one of these "packs" is custom made. They build the Gearskin to fit your body, which for a skinny guy like me is a bonus. Many times I try a pack, I'll tighten the hip belt is all the way and I still don't have a good fit around my waist. When you receive a Gearskin, it will only need minimal adjusting to the different straps to fit it perfectly to your body. And think - $125 for a custom pack - you can't beat that! But, since it is custom made, you need to allow a few weeks for them to get it made and shipped after you order it, don't expect it the same week.

I also asked Jonathan McCue about warrantees, and this is what he said:

"As far as returns we haven't had to deal with that till now. We want people to know that if they are not happy with the Gearskin they can send it back, no problem, if it is in good condition they can send it back to us and we will give them their money back. We will also guarantee our quality and workmanship.

In some cases we may be able to offer a loaner, rental or demo for people to use. We have an instructional video that people can get for $10.00 that we will refund if they buy a Gearskin.

People need to realize also that this is custom made gear and that they have to be aware that it will take our resources to restock and should not take lightly the decision for them to have us make a custom piece. So for now we will give a 100% satisfaction guarantee or their money back. In the future if this gets out of hand for some reason (not that I think it will) we may have to work it a little different. The bottom line is we are willing to go the extra to make the customer happy."

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Packing the Gearskin

To pack the Gearskin, think of it as a taco with compression straps. Instead of stuffing your sleeping bag and rolling up your pad, just fold up your gear inside your bivy, tent, ground cloth, or whatever shelter you carry. Then fold the shelter with the gear inside it down to the size of the sleeping pad. You can even put your clothing and food bags inside, or lay them on top of your shelter after you fold it up. Then center that bundle on top of the gear skin and fold it over like a taco shell. Clip the top and side clips loosely and compress them until the bundle is all tight. With your pad, and all that other gear under tension, the entire bag acts like a single piece of gear - no stay or frame needed. If you have a few odds and ends like rain gear, fleece, hat, etc. just stuff it in between the shelter and the Gearskin for quick and easy access.

After packing the Gearskin a couple of times, I can see the benefit of having the pack and shelter permanently or semi-permanently attached like the Powerpack system incorporates. If your thinking of getting a Gearskin, look into a Powerpack system first.

Packing with the Hennessy Hammock

In initial tests I used the Hennessy Hammock as a part of the pack, but when I started using the Snakeskins, I had to change my pack slightly. Here is my method:

1. Lay the Gearskin out flat, suspension straps down on the ground.
2. Center the sleeping pad top to bottom, side to side on the Gearskin.
3. Put the food bag at the very center of the sleeping pad so that it will be on the very bottom of the pack. I used a sil-nylon sack for this.
4. Put the clothing bag and sleeping bag stuff sacks inside a trash compactor bag to serve as a pack liner.
5. These go on the "back" of the pack directly above the food bag. Both of these bags are sil-nylon.
6. Buckle the top two buckles, then the side buckles. Tighten the sides, but not too tight.
7. Stuff rain gear between the pad and the Gearskin "back". The back is the part that goes against the wearer's back and has the suspension straps.
8. Slip the windscreen between the "front" of the Gearskin and the sleeping pad. I also slipped my pack cover in the "front" too.
9. I place the hydration system at the top part of the "front" where the hose can be run out the top. Note I'm not using the hose, but the spout is able to poke out.
10. In the top, I stuffed a sil-nylon sack with stuff like water purifier, toilet paper, first aid kit, etc. I also put my Hennessy Hammock stored in the Snakeskin and balled up.
11. Strap a water bottle to the side using a compression strap and also a wet tarp to the outside using the same straps if needed.
12. After all this, tighten all the compression straps.

It may seem very complicated, but it isn't. With the heaviest Item (the food bag) at your waist and strapped directly there, the rest of the pack feels like a pillow on your back. Since I no longer use my shelter as a part of the "pack", the pad and the Gearskin are the only truly exposed part of the load which makes it very durable - important if you fear for your sil-nylon tent's safety. You may also note that everything is triple protected from rain - a sil nylon bag, inside a trash compactor bag, with a sil-nylon pack cover. This isn't specific to the Gearskin for me, I'm just paranoid about getting my gear wet.

Slack Pack

This is a special section I added after making the original review. A reader asked how to pack if you just want to carry a water bladder, some food, and maybe a rain jacket. It is an important question since there wouldn't be enough stuff to make the Gearskin compress on the gear, thus holding it in. Important if you may want to leave your camp up and make a side trip for a nice site, a re-supply, or whatever.

The solution is very simple. When the volume of gear is so low, simply cross the side straps to their opposites across the "front" of the pack. With such a small load you could walk almost forever without fatigue and without worry of anything falling out the sides.

1. Slack packing. All I need is a rain jacket, some food, water, Polar Pure, and a pack cover.
2. Crisscross the buckles across the back and put your stuff in. Tighten down the straps.
3. Now you have a small daypack for base camping, a re-supply trip, or whatever.

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Review

I decided to test the pack under a variety of load plans and conditions. My intent was to determine just how much weight could be carry comfortably in this pack without needing a frame or stays. Under small loads (20 pounds or less) the general consensus is that just about any frameless pack can be comfortable, but I wanted to know what the benefits of the compression and suspension system would truly be. For reference I chose the same eight mile route as a standard distance/trail condition. The course is fairly level compared to most place you will likely hike, but for Louisiana it has some good hills and draws to cross.

30 Pound Test


In my initial tests, I used my Hennessy Hammock with the pad inside as the base, folding the hammock flat over the pad, then on top of that I put my clothing, sleeping bag, and food in separate sil-nylon bags. I folded the hammock and pad over the bags and buckled the sucker up, then tightened down the straps. Next, I stuffed my rain gear in from the top for easy access and put my tarp, water bottle and lemonade bowl/cup in the mesh pocket so I can access all that on the trail. It all fit in fine and the 27.75 or so pounds rode very well on my back. I found that keeping my food bag and water bladder at the bottom close to my hips was the best way to load it.

To test it, I added water to get the weight to 30 pounds for my first trail evaluation. The temperature was 75¡Æ F. with 90% humidity. At one point I got about 5 minutes of very light drizzle.

The pack rode exceptionally well with 30 pounds, way better than my mesh pack would at just 25 pounds. Initially I started the pack strapped evenly to my body. But, after about 1.5 miles I moved the hip belt up a little to where it was just above my hip bone, then loosened up the shoulder straps for better air flow. It was very comfortable when carried that way, and I never changed it after that.

At about 5 miles, I took a quick break for a snack. Normally with a top loader backpack where the food bag is at the bottom, it would present a hassle to get to the snacks; you would either have to dump the entire pack, or think ahead and pack a few snacks in your pocket. But with the Gearskin, I just undid a single buckle and opened my food bag without removing it and grabbed a Snickers. I used that same strap to buckle in my water bottle - VERY convenient. Everything in your pack is just as easy to access - and that is better than any other top, side, or hybrid loading system I've ever used.

40 Pound Test

I loaded it up to 40 pounds by adding a five pound tent, two liters of water, and another pad. I did this to also add bulk and see if a change in the load configuration as well as weight would influence the packing capabilities. The temperature was about 75¡Æ F. with 90% humidity and mostly cloudy. The forecast called for thunderstorms but I never got any.

What I found was that it is easy to shift and configure the weight to ride in the best position regardless of what your carrying. Because there isn't specific compartments, and the main "compartment" has a variable size, distributing the load from top to bottom is easy. You don't have to pack stuff in odd places like when you exceed the interior limits of your pack. I also found that the suspension still holds up well to this sort of load. Again, because your load becomes almost a single piece, the entire Gearskin and gear becomes in effect their own stay.

The only downfall (sort of) was at this amount of gear, the Gearskin's bottom buckles become useless. They are so close to the fold at the bottom that they slip off when trying to put on tension, but it isn't a show stopper because there are plenty more of the straps to do the job.

Another thing I found - I hate carrying more weight than I have too, and at 40 pounds - I am doing just that. But this is for science man!#9786;

50 Pound Test

I loaded it up to 50 pounds. At this point I'm just finding heavy stuff to top off the pack and get some feedback, I doubt a lightweight backpacker could find a reason to pack this heavy unless he were carrying about two weeks food and 2 days worth of water. Honestly, after all these years of going light I found it hard to remember what it was I used to carry when I packed 50 pounds, but I eventually did it. To make it realistic I pulled out an old sleeping bag, huge sleeping pad, tent, stove and HUGE pot, a hammock, extra fuel, lots of water, etc. You get the point, something a newbie to backpacking or an old time hiker still packing a 4 pound sleeping bag and 5 pound tent might find himself carrying.

For this test the temperature was a steamy 81¢ª with 92% humidity and some fog. There wasn't any chance of rain, and the fog slowly burned off as I walked.

Amazingly the Gearskin handled 50 pounds very well. I was actually expecting to make it a mile or two then quit because such a load would be too much trouble. But I hiked the entire trail without taking a break. Of course a 50 pound pack slowed me down and made hills a little harder (ok, twice as hard) as when I hike with a 25 pound load. But in the area of comfort and load carrying the Gearskin measures up even to internal frame packs. Something else odd I found was the bottom straps that didn't do much (see 40 pound test) actually were needed with this big bulky load. there seems to be a middle ground between 30 and 50 pound loads that makes some difference. Maybe it was how I packed the 40 pound load, but I can't see how because I always have the same food bag at the bottom.

As I was walking, I pondered on this: Why does a pack without any frame or stays handle loads like it does. Basically this is what I came up with:

1. The U shaped "skin" is like a bridge arch. In a frame or stay system, the load is strapped to the body, and then all the load is strapped to the stay or frame. This means the frame/stay is carrying the load all on a single line along your back, like a slab bridge. But the U shape transfer the weight all across the pack like an arch bridge - evenly distributed top to bottom. I may be way off on this I realize, but it sort of makes sense. Maybe an engineer could tell me I'm full of it, or on the right track.

2. The compression system takes a slack load and makes it into a single unit. Instead of stays or frames, the entire pack becomes it's own rigid suspension system. I think works with the U shape mentioned above.

3. Unlike a lot of ultralight packs, the Gearskin has load lifter straps, these make a difference. In case you don't know what load lifter straps are, they are straps on top of your shoulder pads that pull the load up and make it ride more on top of your shoulders rather than pulling away from your back.

4. The suspension system uses real padding and wide straps, not ultra narrow straps like off a kid's book bag, or straps that use something like socks for padding. Even at low weights the pack feels a lot better than may ultralight packs I've tried (or made).

5. The pack seems to pack best wide and flat to your back, which makes the load feel like a natural part of your body. Even at 50 pounds the pack didn't throw off my center of balance.

I believe I could actually pack an even heavier load than 50 pounds comfortably in the Gearskin, but I'm not going to even try, 50 is way more than I ever plan to carry in it.

Trail Test

To finish off the test, of course requires a trip. To get an idea of how a backpacker would deal with a Gearskin day to day over the course of a hike, I took my children on a four day hike of the Eagle Rock Loop in the Ozark mountains.

Initially I fit the pack with 26.5 pounds, but the second day I took on some extra weight, which bumped my pack up to 27 pounds, but no problems with making room or with carrying the weight. The following day I had to carry some more of another person's gear and my pack weight went over 30 pounds - still no problems at all. The fourth day I had to carry water over mountains (steep like Appalachian Trail steep) because of some dry streams, so I was up to 35 pounds and doing great! Even though I was eating food every day, my pack weight kept going up until the last mile of the last day when I was able to cut back to 23 pounds. One thing I did find was that at lower weights I preferred having a tight waist belt and loose shoulder straps for better ventilation; and at weighs above 30 pounds I preferred to have the shoulder straps tightened as well as the hip belt to help take the load and keep me better balanced.

I found that daily I would totally re-pack my Gearskin from scratch but using a standard load plan. In the evenings I would totally unload my pack and actually roll it up and put it in an empty stuff sack until the morning. I also found that the lighter the load, the looser it was - but that was OK; the heavier the load, the more rigid I could get it which was also a good thing.

After years of trying frame packs, internal frame packs, Army ALICE packs, and rucksacks I've found that I prefer a pack that doesn't carries a lot of weight above your shoulders. The Gearskin definitely does not do that. The pack fits so close to your back and can be packed very flat and wide so that it has very little pull to your back. This made the pack ride so well, there were times the first two days I could barely tell I had a pack on for purposes of keeping balance over rough terrain and water crossings.

During this trip I hiked with three other people carrying about the same or less starting weight, but all using internal frame packs. On the third day I had the opportunity to carry two of their packs for a while (a few miles). By this time all three of their backpacks weighed less than my Gearskin, but I can honestly say that some how the Gearskin carried weigh better than the other two backpacks I tried. These packs were a Peak1 and a Lowe. I'm not sure why it carried weight better. Maybe it is the way the entire pack becomes a unit, maybe it is the versatility in how you load it, maybe it is the low profile or wide body, maybe it is a combination of all the above, or maybe it is something completely different. All I know is after carrying one of the other packs a mile, I yearned for my Gearskin even with it's heavier load.

I mentioned this before, but the pack allows you access to EVERYTHING while your on the trail. Any situation that arose, I was able to reach a piece of gear without digging through everything in the pack. The mesh pocket turned into a convenient pocket, but was totally unnecessary because I ended up putting my water bottle right on the side for easy access, and everything else ended up getting slipped between the "load" and the Gearskin. With the top and sides open, I was constantly worried about letting something slip out, but it never happened even with the pack flip method of donning my backpack. For you that are unfamiliar with the pack flip method:

1. Stand with your pack in front of you. The pack will be upright and the straps facing away from your legs.
2. Grasp your pack between the shoulder straps about half way between the hip belt and where they attach to the top of the backpack.
3. Lift the pack straight up over your head and flip the pack over as it slips down your arms into place.
4. Now all you have to do is buckle your hip belt. It looks way cooler than the old lift to the knee method everyone uses.

Something else I should mention that I intended to try was attaching the Gearskin to my Hennessy A-Sym Hammock. I couldn't really find a good way to make this work, and to top it off, I ended up getting the Snake Skins which would have made the two totally incompatible, so having a separate Gearskin ended up being the very best option for me. This way I can use the Gearskin with any shelter I choose for whatever weather and terrain I'm going to.

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Conclusion

I highly recommend this pack. This design deserves some sort of an award for original thinking, similar to the Hennessy Hammock. For $125 you get a custom made pack for your body made by a real backpacker, and for just 28 ounces (or more likely even less) weight you get a state of the art suspension system while keeping the pack weight itself to a minimum. And most ultralight packs are delicately made with ultralight materials, but you can order a Gearskin as tough as the best Army ALICE pack and still have it weigh less than 2 pounds.

Think about it. The big problems with most ultralight packs are they either have a crappy suspension systems and don't handle heavy loads. Some ultralight packs are just a bag with straps that don't organize well, and if you add features on to make them organize better, the weight goes up. With the Gearskin the organization is limitless. You can sandwich, stuff, strap, and place gear everywhere.

And to top it all off, while most ultralight packs really can't handle loads over 20 pounds, the Gearskin can be your all purpose ultralight pack from a minimal 8 pound pack all the way up to a 50 pound load!

If I had to list my dislikes about the Gearskin, well they would be very few:

First, Moonbowgear is a small company that is overworked. I would love to see them grow and be able to handle bigger volume, but don't let that stop you from ordering, because by doing so you help fix that problem.

Second would be the bottom set of straps, they are so low on the pack that unless you carry a load under about 25 pounds, the serve little purpose. And even at a low pack weight I didn't see them doing much good. I would recommend moving them up just an inch or two, and positioning the rest of the straps up a little higher to keep them evenly spaced. According to Jonathan, my pack must have been made off an older pattern for this part. All new packs have just this change and he offered to fix mine free of charge.

If that is all I have to complain about, that isn't bad.

I plan to use the Gearskin as my primary pack for the forseeable future, this excellent pack. And my second idea is to go ahead and get a sil-nylon version without the mesh pocket when I finally get ready to do my thru-hike in 2007. What better endorsement can you give than to say you want to buy two of them yourself?

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About Moonbow

Although I don't normally cover a gear manufacturers in detail, I think Moonbow deserves some special attention.

In my dealings with what I initially thought was your standard gear company, I found Moonbow to be a grass roots hiker oriented/operated business. Instead of a company with a lot of hired workers in a factory somewhere - Moonbow is located right beside the Appalachian Trail in Glencliff NH and is run out of the Hikers Welcome hostel by Jonathan McCue who also thru-hiked the AT himself in '94. Jonathan and Rhia do most of the work themselves, and sometimes use contracted workers that are often hikers or climbers as well. Rosaleen actually helped make mine.

Almost everything they sell is custom made to your personal specifications. If you want something special not in the list of their products, just ask. Often all they need is a drawing or idea from you to make your dream gear into reality. I was looking for the perfect tarp/poncho for my Hennessy Ultralight A-Sym Hammock and simply made them a picture which ended up in a final working product at a very reasonable price.

And all it cost me was $100. I could have gotten it cheaper, but I asked for a lot of options and a designe that needed a lot of material - more than a normal poncho would require.

Because they are small, are hikers themselves, are very talented at what they do, and are basically good people, the customer service is excellent.

They prefer you use e-mail to contact them, but if you decide to call - LEAVE A MESSAGE!

Reading that tired me out. It was, however, a very complete review.

I'm very interested in trying one of these.

WHen I was staying at the HIker's Welcome Hostel in Glencliff where the inventor lives, I got to see a few. Wish I had been more observant instead of talking with other hikers.

Love the concept. HH

I just ordered my ultralight sil-nylon Gearskin. Of course my wife asked why I needed two. What should I tell her?:confused:

Digging up an old thread... (sorry, I'm new, so I'm just seeing this).

SGT Rock, I read your review here, and checked out the review and pictures on your site. It looks like a good and innovative system. My only question is why is a silnylon version of this 16oz? If a GoLite Breeze is 13oz and it has sides (and, I think, is longer overall as well) and it's made out of a heavier material than silnylon, how can the Gearskin weigh so much?

Haiku.

Actually I should edit that. I just got my sil-nylon a few months ago and it is 22.4 ounces.

The reason it weighs more are these:

1. The suspension system is a "real" suspension system like on some of my top of the line internal frame packs. Wide, padded hip belt, wide, padded shoulder straps with sternum strap and load lifers, and a top strap connection to the suspension that helps transfer the weight from the whole pack to the shoulder straps better. Add tot hat a set of side straps. This isn't a miimallist frameless rucksack like the Breeze, it is a suspension system with a simple load compressor.

2. Another point is the sil-nylon is a double pannel, not single layer. This reduces stretch in the pannel to make the load change less despite the amount in it. Also, at the stress points, there is a layer of nylon sandwched inside to help strengthen these attachments.

I've played with the light packs and couldn't stand them over 20 pounds. And I have not gotten my pack to stay below that for the most part. With kids, you never know when you will end up hauling part of their load, and despite my gear trimming over the last few years, I've still got a base around 15 pounds for three season. The Gearskin has handled my lightest loads up to my 50 pound load by simple ajustment of the compression straps, and it can handle a lot of volume and still ride basically the same way it does at 25 pounds.

Would you have something close to a gearskin by cutting up an old internal frame pack, removing the side panels, and using the existing compression straps to cinch the load?

well sort of - the Gearskin has more compression straps than any internal pack I have seen and there is nothing like the stay(s) found in the internal backplate but if you cut the sides off of an internal frame or no frame pack you would come close to the idea of the Gearskin - Sgt. Rock's site has some good pictures showing the Gearskin in the various stages of packing up.

HOI is right. You could make one, but I would figue you would waste as much trying to make one as you would just buying it from Moonbow. There was a fellow at www.Backpacking.net that made his own from scratch. BTW, if you are looking for a good source on how to make your own, that is a killler site.

It sounds as though if you're willing to be able to sacrifice a little of the carrying power (I never plan to carry more than 30lbs, let alone the 50 that SGT Rock carried) you could drop the pack weight quite a bit. Less reinforcement, maybe replace the side straps with p-cord that you can tie off, and still get the functionality of the Gearskin without nearly as much weight. Might be worth playing with, since this pack design sounds really great from Rock's reviews. Truly thinking outside the box.

Haiku.

Rock, have you read Ray Jardine's book? He said the following about "True Suspension Systems".

Sternum straps are for packs designed for too many people. They compensate for shoulder straps which do not fit right, and interfere with your natural breathing rhythem.

Hipbelts are for people who carry too many things. They restrict your hip/spine/neck movements, and add tremendous stress to these areas. You also don't/can't walk normally.

I just got my GoLite Breeze in. I'm going to try it out this weekend. See you guys later!

I've read Jardine and agree with a lot of what he says, and I think he is also nuts because of a lot of what he has said and some of the "interesting" things that have temporarily graced his web site.

I could go into detail about a few things but would rather not. I'll just cover the suspension system.

The Gearskin does not turn your back into a rigid system, your body still flexes. It is not like straping a frame pack on. As for sternum straps, mine constantly gets adjusted either tight or loose as I needed it. I would not want to rid my pack of it. I have done it on other packs and regretted it, even when below 20 pounds.

RJ's wife still wears boots BTW. So just because it works for him, it ain't for everyone, he just has a way of making you think it ought to.

On Jardine, he took Grandma Gatewoods philosophy and got rich, he should be paying her family royalties....
On sternum straps-sure you dont need them if you never lean!
On the Gearskin---much kudos for Moonbow, so much work they have done for me that is awesome, but I like to not compress my sleeping bag or quilt any more than I have to and it seems like the Gearskin wants me to compress it greatly????

A valid concern about your bag, I have the same philosophy. The Gearskin really doesn't add any compression. I have my sleeping bag in a stuff sack about 3 times larger than it needs to be as well because I feel the same way.

The compression straps, as I said above, don't really add a great deal of compression, they actually tighten the load until everything is riding tight to each other and make it like a single unit.

Good to know Rock, just a matter of time before I try a Gearskin, maybe after a year of the Mithril and I'll be sick of it, but I bet it's gonna be like my old wrecked nissan pickup-I'll be sick of it before I ever wear it out.

Actually Jardine has a fullpage photo of GG in his book, with quotes and similarities of philosophy. I thought his book was quite good to be honest.

He invented Friends (The camming devices used for protection when climbing). This is what made him rich. Actually, some say he stole the idea, but whatever... I believe he did this before he ever started long distance hiking...

Very interesting man...

Gravity Man

RJ does have some great info in his book and I wouldn't dispute it at all, but some of his theories on curing disease with magnatism, some of his ideas about nutrition, and other stuff is just out there. Also be advised that the book you may have read may not be the original model, it gets revised regularly. Some things that others may tell you he said but you can't find, he really did say it.

Some of the stuff on backpacking and going light are simply a matter of style and taste. For instance one arm sling of his Breeze, I have never liked that even with sub 10 pound bags, or his total dismisal of hiking poles while others (including me) really like them. Like I said, it is taste and likes to some - Jenny still wears boots and she lives with him. I also wonder about some of the things like water purification that he talks about using but doesn't list in his pack weight, his pots and stove he mentions in his pack weight but doesn't discuss other than a cook fire, and why he has this big thing about eating only raw foods (he has talked about cooked food as a poison) but still needs a pot and cooks his fish when he does those Artic kayak trips.

Anyway, back to backpacking and style...

I've custom made a bag - so it was exactly right for me, and it was below 20 pounds, yet I still wanted a sternum strap at times. When I don't need it I don't use it, when I do want it, it gets buckled.

As for hip belts, I made a pack without that too, but maybe it is the military in me, but I prefer hanging more weight on my hips where it rides better and no lower back strain because most of the weight attaches below. Hipbelts constricting your spine does happen with some pack designs, but with others (like the Gearskin specifically) you can get the majority of the weight to ride at hip level, then the rest of the pack feels like a pillow strapped to your back - and your spine still moves just fine. If I were to carry the same 20 pounds on my shoulders - they would get sore.

Let me give you this example from RJs logic that is a deviation of what he is preaching. He says using shoulder straps is all you need. He also says your shoulders will get sore and tired when you first go this way because they aren't used to the weight, but then he also talks about this method being better for the back. So if these two points aren't contradictory, then what is it? If you carry the weight on the hips, and then the shulder straps only ballance the load without constricting the spine, which is truly better? My back never got sore with the Gearskin or a similar set up. To carry that further RJ says hikers often tell him if you are a strong hiker you don't have to go light which he says is totally wrong thinking - and I can agree. But his theory on should straps without belts and learning to get tough to carry it is contradiction to his other theory. Anyway, I'm not calling him wrong at all, so don't take it that way, I'm just trying to point out why this is a subjective opinion based on his style and not fact.

But before you totally go to RJs style, remember he did years of hiking with "normal gear" and slowly traind himself down to where his is. I don't ever think people should just start hiking with an 8 pound base when heading into weather that could be dangerous. What RJ has is skills and experience to back up an 8 pound base. He doesn't talk about some of this as much as I think he should in his book, but it was apparent on his web site, but his philosophy got him to be pretty much dogmatic in how things should be done at times.

But if ever went to his site when he had the forum, he was dogmatic to the point of insanity. Simple points of discussion like gromets vs. tie outs on tarps could get you banned, and don't try to discuss points of Christian faith - it was his way or the highway for a few knowledgeable Christians I know that disagreed with some of his "dogma" for lack of a better word.

Add to that the occasional bizzar links that might last a week or only a day to sites like "What really happeed" that blamed Pan-Am bobmbings, Oklahoma Bombings, WTC bombings, or whatever on CIA conspiracies to limit Freedoms or intrduce alien civilizations, or whatever.

If you want good common sense backpacking advice for free, go to www.backpacking.net. Charles has a great site, he is pretty hands off, and the group there has a lot of ideas looking at lightweight hiking from many different points and styles.

RJ has many similarities to Wingfoot? is that what I am hearing on the censureship issue? Def. a cult following of him though.

WF is highly sane and open minded compared to some of the stuff I saw on RJs site.

what are you doing up so late, no guard duty? seriously though I
'studied' at jardines site when it had the 'cult'ish following, then he started yanking stuff on and off depending on his mood, you know the 'alpha' stuff of Brown's tracking school, some of it mentally provoking, but suddenly he yanks it, probably thinking it is another book he could sell??

I don't know anything about RJ as a person, just that I enjoyed much of his book, and collected many ideas from it. I'm still using a tent (no tarp), a thick cushy pad (no 3/8" thick spliced pad), and I don't plan on cutting the tounges out of my shoes, but I am adopting things such as a blanket, hipbelt-less pack, and his way of dividing the day up amongst hiking & resting.

I have to say that I've always supported eating fresher foods. Packing things like onions, peppers, potatoes, oranges, etc. I always feel better/replenished after eating fresh foods rather than rehydrated instant rice w/freezedried chicken bits/powder & cajun mystery sauce (powder). It does weigh more, and I do eat traditional lipton type meals, but I always supplement them with the fresh veggies. I can only agree more when it comes to eating chemical food. I often have a craving for my late night bag of cheetos & diet coke, but they do nothing to quelch fatigue. They're what I would call "hollow food". I also plan to do an experiemnt substituting my mass-retail carbs (Barilla Pasta, Near East Rice, and Hungry Jack Taters) with true "Whole-Grain" versions (as RJ put it). After using his methods to dismiss breads and pasta that claim to be whole grain, I'm hoping to aquire some "good-stuff" with which to try for a weekend.

I also use hiking poles too. I find 4 legs are better than one despite what RJ says.

I have some questions about the gearskin. (Sorry, no comments on RJ :)) When you start loading it up, say in the 30-50 pound range, how much of the weight is carried by the hip belt? When I use frame packs, I try to adjust them so that almost all of the weigh is carried by the hip belt, and my shoulder straps merely keep the pack from falling over backwards. Can this be done with a gearskin?

I have started to explore the winter wonderland of snow camping, and so I need a new pack that can handle 35+ pounds. I'm considering a gearskin type pack or an internal frame pack. Whatever I choose, I'll be making it myself. There is something special about a pack made by your own hands.

Good question. I tink that is really on how you adjust and pack it. I like to keep the heavy stuff to the bottom, so that helps keep the weight on the hips.

AWESOME!

This is a unique pack witha design somewhat hard to explain. Read Rock's first post to learn more and check out www.moonbowgear.com

I'm 6'3", 220lbs. Experienced distance hiker. AT MEGA '01 and I just completed the JMT SOBO last Sat. I brought the Gearskin on the JMT for its inaugural run.

In the past and for the AT i carried a monster Lowe Alpine pack (Contour IV i think) I traditionally carried 40 lbs on the AT.

For the JMT I revamped my gear and got my base weight w/o food and water to 17 lbs or so. Food and water was a bitch through. At the heaviest I had 10 days of food and 3 liters of water bringing the pack to maybe 35 lbs or so. I don't weigh everything to the last ounce so I unfortunately can't be exact with you all.

I opted for the ripstop nylon Gearskin. I added on a mesh pocket to the outside for easy access. The Gearskin is totally customized to your body as I sent in a outline of my torso and my measurments. It fits like a charm and weighs close to 2 lbs. The stitching looks great, but I honestly have no idea what good or bad stitching looks like. I spent $207 dollars on the pack, extra mesh pocket and a custom made sil-nylon pack cover. The base price is $150.00

It did take me a day or two learn to pack it for most comfort. I admit the first 2 days of my hike were not as comfortable as they could have been. Once I figured out that the taller you make the pack, the more comfortable it would become I was in heaven. At first I piled all of my stuff sacks together as close as possible. THis seemd to pull the shoulder straps down forcing me to carry the load on my shoulders. When i experimented with laying all of my gear in a line through, it felt like I was wearing a glove on my back. Even with 10 days of food and water. Clothes on the bottom, food, miscellaneous gear, sleeping bag was the best order for me.

Upon stopping for breaks the mesh pocket was ample enough to hold all my snacks for day as well as a baggie for DEET suntan lotion and bodyglide, a small first aid kit, pack cover and my glasses. On the occasion that I forgot to leave out something, it couldn't have been easier to loosen a compression strap, reach into a stuff sack, find what I need, and tighten the strap again. The numerous straps also made it easy to hang wet clothes and to stuff in my wind breaker when it got hot.

There are no signs of wear on the pack after my 2 week journey.

The one downfall is I never really found out the ideal place to put my water bladder. I kept it on top the whole way, but the hot Sierra sun warmed up the water quickly. Also, witht he water under the compression straps, pressure was put on the bladder. I found my bite valve leaking more than once.

I would recommend the Gearskin to anyone. An ultralighter or a normal packer will find the pack comfortable, easy to use, and able to carry any load.

So, did you use your tent/bivy/tarp as the "body", or did you use your pad (like SGT Rock did)? Or just pile a bunch of stuff sacks between the straps?

I did use my tent as the body. In the morning, I'd take down the tent and lay it flat on the ground with the fly on top. I then folded my z rest in thirds and lay that towards the middle of the tent with the creases going vertically or parallel to the long edges of the tent. I folded the tent in thirds over the z rest and slid the whole thing over the gearskin which i put flat on the ground. I folded the tent in half and clipped the side compression straps of the gearskin loosely. I then put in the gear, clipped the two top straps, and then compressed everything down.

I hope this makes sense.

I use a hammock as the body, inside the hammock I have a full length blue foam pad, sleeping bag, and some clothes. I use a separate tarp instead of the HH rain fly so I can do all the packing up under the tarp if it is raining. I drop the hammock with the pad, bag and clothes still in it, fold it up so that the stuff is shaped like the pad, pick it up and position it over the flattened out Gearskin such that the foot end of the hammock will be closest to my back, stick my food and cooking stuff roughly where the fold will be then fold it up loosely buckling the side straps, stuff most of the rest of the stuff into the top and buckle the top straps, stick a couple liters of water in the fold section toward the bottom and tighten down the side straps, tuck one end of the pad into the other on top, drop tarp and stuff it in its bag and stuff tarp bag into top of pack, finish tightening up the straps, put on rain cover if needed, and end up hooking the in-hike water bottle to the shoulder harness.

I also hope this makes sense.

Grimmace -- What luck. I just wrote to The Sarge regarding using the gearskin in the Sierra, then I found your comments. This is the question I have for you (and the Sarge, and anyone else0 and that is theis. as you know, Garcis bear cans are required on most of the JMT for food storage. How did you pack the bear can into the gearskin, and how did the whole thing ride? very interested in your reply as I am poised to order a Gearskin to use on my third thru hike on JMT this comming summer. Also, I am planning on using a HH hammock this trip as well. Any thoughts much appreciated, particularly since so much of the JMT is above tree line. Thanks. Rshine

I just put the Bear Can where i normally put my food bag. Honestly, When I go out for 6 days or so, my food bag is almost identicle in shape to a bear can minus the hard outer shell, so there wasn't a big difference. Even hiking out of Vermillion with 9 days of food, the Gear Skin was still comfortable. I actually find it to be more confortable the more volume it has.

I think I explained in this thread how I pack it. If not. I fold my tent in thirds around my Zrest which I fold into thirds as well. Creases of Zrest go from head to toe against back. I then pull the tent.zrest over the unclipped gearsking. I fold the package in half and clip the sides of the gearskin giving as much slack as possible in the straps. I then put in all of my stuff sacks laying them on top of each other horizontally. Clothes-->food (heavy)
-->gear bag-->sleeping bag on top. I then clip the top straps. Compress everything and I'm good to go.

hope this helps

Yes, it does help. Thank you. Actually, after all is said and done, I have grown to like the can. Just take it out and plop it down andd my storage is done. nighty, nighty after that.

www.geocities.com/gearskinpics

Check out one of my earlier free sites to see how I pack my gearskin. The troble lies in the fact that I pack it differently as my gear changes, even trip to trip. Larger stuff sack here, no sandles there, etc.

Brian
www.outdoorequipmentsupplier.com

Hello,

I'm looking into a new pack and the gearskin seams just perfect (i tend to think outside the box more then my mother and boyfriend (mother doing the first two weeks of the trail with me, boyfriend the whole thing) and dont know how i will break this too them... they are going to think i am crazy)

But one problem... I'm five foot one inch tall and weight 105 pounds. Does the gearskin get small enough for me? And how does it fit females?

Thanks
Pink

But one problem... I'm five foot one inch tall and weight 105 pounds. Does the gearskin get small enough for me? And how does it fit females?They are custom built. You send in your measurements and torso outline.

Give Moonbow a call, they'll explain what they need.

Sgt Rock,

You started this thread 5 1/2 years ago. I am dusting this thread off in the hope of a follow up review on the Gearskin. My son is planning a long distance Canadian Rockies hike this summer and said he will be 10 -14 days between supplies. So he needs a large, flexible, and lightweight pack.

I am curious if you still use the Gearskin as your primary pack?

I've suggested he consider the Gearskin, the ULA Catalyst, the Osprey Aether 70, & the Granite Gear Status Latitude.

Any of your other Gearskin users, please feel free to opine too.

Thanks for your help.

Egads

Since SGT Rock is currently on his Thru-hike and not checking the site very often. I thought I'd let you know, he's using his Gearskin on his hike as we speak and still loving it. He was actually highly recommending it at SORUCK to several others in attendance this year.

Thanks Dixicritter.

My brother thru-hiked the AT in '04 with his gearskin. Held up well. About mid-way he had the hipbelt shortened a bit and another hipbelt pocket added. He borrowed one of my packs for those 2-3 weeks.

He leaves for his PCT thru-hike in another month. The gearskin will be with him.

I hiked about 6 or 700 miles of my hike with the gearskin last year. I would say it is an ok pack, but not for me. It is not designed to carry heavy weights, around 30 lbs. My pack weight leaving town with water was usually around 30-35 lbs. It road ok, the problem was the pack would not take it. Both load lifters where they attach to the shoulder straps had the seams pop and come off, the shoulder straps where they attached to the bottom of the pack started to pop. The seam holding the hipbelt on started to pop.

Needless to say I switched. I think if your pack weight is only 20-25 it would be ok. My biggest issue other than that was that is was a pain to pack up. It took me noticeably longer. I also had to put all my stuff on the ground to do it. Another bad part is all of your gear wil be smashed, including all of your food. I got really tired of eating little pieces or smashed everything.

HE - what type fabric was your Gearskin made from? - mine is from 200 D pack cloth and I have had very few problems with it (couple side straps were coming unstitched after a couple years and a couple stitches popped in a part of the shoulder harness where I pick up the pack)

The gearskin pack is not for everyone. I have one and I don't really care for it. I think I have used mine three times. I prefer a pack that has some type of frame built into it. This is just what I like. Others love it though. To each there own.

Mine is the same 200 D pack cloth. The packcloth is holding up. It looks to me like the thread is the weak part and what is breaking.

The gearskin pack is not for everyone. I have one and I don't really care for it. I think I have used mine three times. I prefer a pack that has some type of frame built into it. This is just what I like. Others love it though. To each there own.

I love the concept, but after watching H.E. Pack up a few times, after he got good at it, I decided it wasnt for me. I still think it's a great idea; I'm jut not organized enough or patient enough to use one properly. 95% of the time my ruck sack type pack gets packed exactly as it should, 3% of the time it's "close". Its that remaining 2% where I just cram stuff in that would bite me with a gearskin.