View Full Version : Inconsiderate Hunter Behavior
dessertrat
09-22-2008, 13:20
Disclaimer: I have nothing at all against hunting, and grew up hunting. But:
Yesterday, just south of George Washington Memorial State Park (Maryland AT) I came across a big pile of deer guts right smack in the middle of the trail.
It is bow season, so the deer may have been legally shot (if it wasn't hunted on the AT), but for God's sake, doesn't that hunter have the common sense to gut the animal someplace more considerate?
Rant off.
Some folks just don't get it, and you can't fix stupid. What I think is worse is the trash that hunters leave behind. They seem to have no regard for LNT. The Allatoona Wildlife Management Area, here in Georgia is a cesspool. BTW I am a hunter who respects the outdoors.
wrongway_08
09-22-2008, 13:42
Every sport has its share of useless/worthless Butt Holes in the group. Sucks you had to run into the aftermath of this one.
Hopefully you took a large branch and slid them oof the trail and covered/mixed them in some leaves and such for others didnt get their hike messed up dealing with it.
Most of the hunters I know would never do something as rude/lazy as that. But like I said, every sport has a few that make the rest look bad.
Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 13:44
Understandably it's hard to pack out 30- 60 lbs extra of guts, but do it off a trail... That's just nasty and I am glad Marje didn't run into that, she would lose her lunch.
boarstone
09-22-2008, 15:06
I'm sure by nightfall the "innerds" were gone by scavengers. The hunters may not have realized they were even "on trail". Or that it was the AT trail or any noteworthy trail that they were on. Hiking trails and game trails look the same to some of them. Granted it wasn't nice to do, but some just don't realize.
boarstone
09-22-2008, 15:07
Oh, and while I think of it, did you report it to your local game warden office?
Tennessee Viking
09-22-2008, 15:24
I was on Roan Mtn crossing in front of Grassy Ridge, and encountered a number of guys in camo at the wet area, and said hi and kept walking. As I just came off the relocation, I heard them coming from behind and branches breaking. Didn't think of it at the time. I went down toward Stan Murray and turn back. I passed the same group in the middle of the climb up. As I hit the new relocation, I found it littered with blocking brush, heavy limbs pinned in between trees across the trail, and overhead branches snapped down at head level. What a--holes... I knew the group had done it being the only other bunch on that section. But couldn't they thought of a better trail prank.
dessertrat
09-22-2008, 15:48
I'm sure by nightfall the "innerds" were gone by scavengers. The hunters may not have realized they were even "on trail". Or that it was the AT trail or any noteworthy trail that they were on. Hiking trails and game trails look the same to some of them. Granted it wasn't nice to do, but some just don't realize.
This was right next to a state park and well marked as the AT. You had quite well better know what's AT and what isn't if you're hunting, since you can be in big trouble for hunting ON the AT.
The innards will probably be gone in a few days. (Nightfall is entirely too optimistic around here, I'm afraid). There was no convenient place to move them off trail with a stick, as they were down in an impression and a stick probably wouldn't have been able to move them very well.
I just think it is a bozo thing not to at least take a carcass a few yards off the trail. That is just as easy as doing it right on the trail.
dessertrat
09-22-2008, 15:50
Oh, and while I think of it, did you report it to your local game warden office?
It is in fact bow season here in Maryland, so the deer could have been shot legally, if it was shot someplace far enough away from the trail. It just wasn't the right place to gut the thing. (I am guessing it was probably shot illegally close to the trail, but you would never prove it).
sherrill
09-22-2008, 15:51
Responsible hunters know how to field dress their kill which includes proper disposal of remains. Apparently this person knew enough not to care.
Lone Wolf
09-22-2008, 15:52
shoulda just kicked the guts aside and gone on. no biggie
john gault
09-22-2008, 15:53
Some hikers probably pissed off some hunters.
dessertrat
09-22-2008, 16:43
shoulda just kicked the guts aside and gone on. no biggie
I stepped around them rather than getting my boots bloody.
berninbush
09-22-2008, 16:59
I agree, very inconsiderate and unnecessary. Most of us don't want to see that.
It does raise the question, are there any HIKER behaviors that hunters consider "inconsiderate"? Besides, of course, the obvious things that irritate everybody, like littering and talking loudly on cell phones. I've never been a hunter but I respect their rights in the woods, so I was just curious if there's anything I should be aware of.
the goat
09-22-2008, 17:31
that's just part of nature.....
OldStormcrow
09-22-2008, 17:31
I too, am a hunter, but much more considerate as to where I clean my deer. As to the subject of hunters on the Trail.....I was at Carter shelter a few years ago and had to go back down the trail in search of water. I looked up on the ridge to the side of the trail and saw three bright orange caps and three long guns pointed towards the trail from behind a log. These guys were obviously hunting directly on the trail, hoping something besides a human would come along.
dessertrat
09-22-2008, 17:32
I guess it annoys hunters when hikers make noise and smell like people (instead of dousing themselves in artificial scent). It scares game away.
It is inconsiderate to hunters for hikers not to be decked out in blaze orange during hunting season. The oranger the better. I've seen way too many hikers during hunting season wearing no orange whatsoever, almost like they are asking for it or that they are somehow above the rules. Foolish and foolhardy.
I agree, very inconsiderate and unnecessary. Most of us don't want to see that.
It does raise the question, are there any HIKER behaviors that hunters consider "inconsiderate"? Besides, of course, the obvious things that irritate everybody, like littering and talking loudly on cell phones. I've never been a hunter but I respect their rights in the woods, so I was just curious if there's anything I should be aware of.
take-a-knee
09-22-2008, 17:47
Ah yes, more disney-esque hand-wringing. The coyotes will have this "problem" cleared out in a couple of days. Some of you guys need to get a life.
I bet there was some good eating in that pile,what a waste. Heart,lung,kidney,liver... holy haggis batman.
Some folks just don't get it, and you can't fix stupid. What I think is worse is the trash that hunters leave behind. They seem to have no regard for LNT. The Allatoona Wildlife Management Area, here in Georgia is a cesspool. BTW I am a hunter who respects the outdoors.
I recognize the problem. Last hunting season the guts of a killed deer was left in one of our better land trust preserve parking lots. I fight with our land trust board periodically to keep our trust preserves and others in our town open to hunters.
Dumb behavior like this doesn't help. But sadly, dumbness seems endemic among hunters. But there are responsible hunters -- even me qualifies.
Weary
taildragger
10-08-2008, 12:16
Just push it off the trail if you see something like that, critters will take care of it that night.
As far as hikers and hunters. Some hikers do harass hunters on purpose, a lot of hikers are usually oblivious to hunters. The wearing no orange is somewhat frightening to walk around in gun season, its just not a good idea and can raise the hairs of a responsible hunter (in that he's pissed someone isn't taking the actions to potential protect their own life)
WalkingStick75
10-08-2008, 16:51
I live next to a state game area here in Michigan, every year we find "parts" all over the place. Few years ago I had to wade in a stream to drag out a fawn that was shot and only the backstraps removed. Inconsiderate is the best word to describe those that gut game on any trail, next to a road and other places where anyone passing by would have to see.
leeki pole
10-08-2008, 17:13
Umm, it is the woods. I would have field dressed the deer off of the trail for sure, but like LW said, no biggie. Entrails gone in 24 hours, max.
They probably want motorist to stop and clean the road killed off the road also :)
Egads and I had close encounter with a hunter on the Coosa Backcountry Trail about a year ago. We heard a gunshot that was extremely close, and we rounded the next turn on the trail and a hunter had shot a deer on the trail a short distance from us. I felt it was uncalled for and dangerous to hunt on the actual trail.
sheepdog
11-12-2008, 14:08
Egads and I had close encounter with a hunter on the Coosa Backcountry Trail about a year ago. We heard a gunshot that was extremely close, and we rounded the next turn on the trail and a hunter had shot a deer on the trail a short distance from us. I felt it was uncalled for and dangerous to hunt on the actual trail.
The problem with some hunters and hikers is they are afraid to be in the woods without a trail. They don't have basic woodsman skills and are afraid of getting lost. I passed a grandpa and grandson hunting squirrels off the trail north of hotsprings. I wasn't offended at all.
I don't know the hunting laws in the area of the deer hunter. Was the area open to hunting? I've heard many sections of the AT are open. If it was open to hunting, you don't have a monopoly for trail use. Therefore if the hunter took a safe shot and gutted the deer off the trail, I have no problem with it.
hnryclay
11-14-2008, 00:25
It was dumb to leave on the trail, but probably not done to spite anyone just general ignorance. As for hiking during rifle season I would not advise anyone to go in National Forest land during rifle season. I grew up hunting, and we always avoided the National Forest because of ignorant people that shoot at sounds/movement. HYOH but you better dress in some serious Blaze orange camp early, and start late.
take-a-knee
11-14-2008, 00:59
Egads and I had close encounter with a hunter on the Coosa Backcountry Trail about a year ago. We heard a gunshot that was extremely close, and we rounded the next turn on the trail and a hunter had shot a deer on the trail a short distance from us. I felt it was uncalled for and dangerous to hunt on the actual trail.
I guess clearing a room and having the guy behind you shooting right past you wouldn't be your cup of tea, would it?:-?
squirrel bait
11-14-2008, 01:03
Opens up alot of lands. More hiking and camping opportunities for the folk in those areas. Viscerals or guts, whatever you call them are no big deal. I thought this was something you got introduced to as a child. Mmmm heart and liver, chitlins, left behind, somebody not good hunter/provider. Can't cure that without education and or experience. Got my boots muddy but not bloody, my hamburger comes from where? No big deal.
First of all, anyone who has ever successfully hunted, knows that deer don't just drop dead instantly where they stand after you shoot them. Not unless you land a fatal kill with a very high powered firearm. This being likely a bow kill, the animal likely ran for a hundred yards or so. So it likely wouldn't have been obvious that the trail was nearby.
Secondly, as previously mentioned, the entrails probably wouldn't have been there more than a few hours. Folks.....IT'S BIO DEGRADEABLE!!!!!! Hunters do this all the time. It's normal. If it offends your sensibillities, get over it.
Third, if you approach a trail from the woods on either side, unless you walk in front of a trail marker, there's no telling what freakin' trail you might be on, or for that matter, it might as well be a local track.
The woods are never big enough, but if you don't get over petty ***** like this, it's not going to get any better. I used to be a cop, and I used to get complaints from hunters all the time that hikers were trashing their blinds, tree stands, and spooking deer when they were hunting. How bad is this in comparison? At least hunters are smart enough to put cameras on trees to catch the scumbag in the act!
Egads and I had close encounter with a hunter on the Coosa Backcountry Trail about a year ago. We heard a gunshot that was extremely close, and we rounded the next turn on the trail and a hunter had shot a deer on the trail a short distance from us. I felt it was uncalled for and dangerous to hunt on the actual trail.
IMO this hunter has no business with a rifle. He was hunting on the trail ~1 mile from Vogel State park on a busy hiker's day. We passed no less than 15 hikers including women, children, & dogs. Anyone who has hiked the Coosa, knows that it is a hikers trail and not a game trail. This section is less than 3/4 miles from the highway and about 1/4 mile from houses. This hunter's behavior cannot be defended, especially by people who don't know the circumstances or what they are talking about. Most serious hunters I know join clubs or lease land to hunt.
The problem isn't hunters; it's inconsiderate & irresponsible people. There are other Whiteblaze threads discussing messes that inconsiderate hikers leave behind.
Egads
saimyoji
11-14-2008, 08:46
I guess clearing a room and having the guy behind you shooting right past you wouldn't be your cup of tea, would it?:-?
Get some.
I guess clearing a room and having the guy behind you shooting right past you wouldn't be your cup of tea, would it?:-?It's easy to 'talk the talk'. But do you 'walk the walk'??? :rolleyes:
bloodmountainman
11-14-2008, 09:22
It's easy to 'talk the talk'. But do you 'walk the walk'??? :rolleyes:
A retired Special Forces Medic HAS walked that walk.
sheepdog
11-14-2008, 09:39
IMO this hunter has no business with a rifle. He was hunting on the trail ~1 mile from Vogel State park on a busy hiker's day. We passed no less than 15 hikers including women, children, & dogs. Anyone who has hiked the Coosa, knows that it is a hikers trail and not a game trail. This section is less than 3/4 miles from the highway and about 1/4 mile from houses. This hunter's behavior cannot be defended, especially by people who don't know the circumstances or what they are talking about. Most serious hunters I know join clubs or lease land to hunt.
The problem isn't hunters; it's inconsiderate & irresponsible people. There are other Whiteblaze threads discussing messes that inconsiderate hikers leave behind.
Egads
Was that section open to hunting or closed to hunting?
aaroniguana
11-14-2008, 09:49
Speaking for myself, just because I've been there doesn't mean I want to go back. Or have people firing all around me or in my general direction.
OTOH, I was always taught there are three seasons. Bow, Gun and Poaching. Anyway you look at it a stray round or arrow probably crosses the trail regularly legal or not. Whether or not you're in front of it is a matter of luck.
As for the gutpile, there are inconsiderate morons in every demographic. Accept it and move on.
... I used to be a cop, and...
I don't find that hard to believe at all.
bloodmountainman
11-14-2008, 10:03
Was that section open to hunting or closed to hunting?The Coosa Backcountry Trail is in National Forest Land. There is a no shoot Zone that extends 1/4 mile around Vogel State Park. There are 2 road crossing on this trail. In the State of Ga. it is unlawful to discharge a firearm within 50 yards of a public road. All national Forest Lands are open to hunting Oct. 18 - Jan 1.
Hunters pay for the right to use these lands..... hikers do not.
sheepdog
11-14-2008, 10:24
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjAxMDk5NDAwNF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMDM5MjUyMQ@@._ V1._CR0,0,313,313_SS100_.jpg (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2145361152/tt0316396)
Who?
sheepdog
11-14-2008, 10:25
The Coosa Backcountry Trail is in National Forest Land. There is a no shoot Zone that extends 1/4 mile around Vogel State Park. There are 2 road crossing on this trail. In the State of Ga. it is unlawful to discharge a firearm within 50 yards of a public road. All national Forest Lands are open to hunting Oct. 18 - Jan 1.
Hunters pay for the right to use these lands..... hikers do not.
I guess that says it all. Time to share.
True dat.
Also, shouldn't hikers show some consideration to the hunters? I hunt (hey, I'm in Mississippi), and a lot of us hunt from climbing treestands. So the next time your out in the woods, and you stop to take care of business, or 'make out' with you partner, look up the trees around you and make sure I ain't in view, cuz I don't wanna watch. LOL!
....Most serious hunters I know join clubs or lease land to hunt......
A sad commentary on how far this nation has fallen. Maine remains an exception, but I worry about the future.
FWIW, my small, midcoast town has 5,000 acres of protected land -- land owned by conservation groups, state and local governments, and land trusts.
All but around 600 acres are open to hunters during open seasons. I fight to keep it that way. Our town land trusts post signs at entrance points, warning hunters of the presence of walkers, and walkers of the presence of hunters. We all manage to get along.
Weary
Weary,
That's the way it's supposed to be,( Not Maine! lol) but very few will live and let live. These days, nobody gives a #$%^ what anyone else thinks or cares about. They are willing to do whatever they can so they get their way, and the "opposition" doesn't. Voter fraud, eco terrorism, legislating from the bench, governmental corruption, corporate corruption. Makes me sick. It all boils down to one basic fact. Very few have respect for others, never mind themselves.
There are good and bad hunters as well as hikers. But I'll tell you this, I've seen a lot more pollution from hikers. Go to any trailhead in NH. Think that's hunters leaving that crap all over the place? Think it's the locals? It's not in a hunter's best interest to litter and pollute. They are generally good stewards. Many hikers are the same way. You don't see hunters trying to ban hiking though.
bloodmountainman
11-14-2008, 13:17
Leaseing hunting land has become a rich man's game! The price for a decent hunting land lease has skyrocketed! Like everything else in this country, hunting is becoming an activity for the elite. The days of true sport hunting by "good ole boys" wanting to bring some meat home for the winter are fast disappearing. As long as hunting is allowed on public lands, that is where I'll hunt. I have never hunted on or over a hiking path. The trails are used for access only.
I guess clearing a room and having the guy behind you shooting right past you wouldn't be your cup of tea, would it?:-?
My issue is not the ownership & use of guns or shooting a doe, it is the irresponsible use of the rifle. I have been down range of rifle fire and heard the whizzing overhead when a fool was using his rifle without considering what was down range. We were standing in the driveway at my parents home in a rural location during this incident. Fortunately we were able to stop this fool before someone got hurt. We did threaten to notify the law if it happened again since he was shooting across the state highway towards our house.
And another thing, legal does not make it safe or moral.
As I said before, The problem isn't hunters; it's inconsiderate & irresponsible people.
Amen brother. There is hope. Groups such as Ducks Unlimited and others are doing fabulous works getting land donated and purchased at reduced cost to preserve migration routes and such.
Encroachment will always be a problem with population explosion, illegal immigration, and sprawl. In the ole days, nobody posted their property because they didn't need to. They knew all of their neighbors and if there was a problem, they dealt with it like men. I always hunted privately owned land and always respected the land owner. It was a symbiotic relationship. Neighbors took care of one another. Now all we do is put up fences. post property as No Trespassing". and try and enact ordinances to prohibit what we don't like.
Irresponsible shooting is another matter for me. You are night. You must, by law, be responsible for that bullet as soon as it goes down range. No question. target selection in addition to hunting in a populous area is a no-brainer. But blasting hunters for a very small matter of left over entrails( and I too wish he had given the organs to me. My dogs love 'em!) on the side of a trail, is just a foolish sign of intolerance and ignorance.
Nearly Normal
11-15-2008, 06:02
First of all, anyone who has ever successfully hunted, knows that deer don't just drop dead instantly where they stand after you shoot them.
Mine do.
A twelve gauge works well. Double 00 buckshot. Less than 30 yards.
They hit the ground dead.
No need to "hunt" a poorly shot deer.
Kill them clean or don't shoot.
I have no problem with hunters. On the other hand....
While checking the Leroy Smith Shelter, in Pa., a few years ago, during hunting season, I had to clean up after a bunch of hunters. They thought it was a good idea to use the shelter to butcher their deer. They at least could have left me some.
take-a-knee
11-16-2008, 01:16
My issue is not the ownership & use of guns or shooting a doe, it is the irresponsible use of the rifle. I have been down range of rifle fire and heard the whizzing overhead when a fool was using his rifle without considering what was down range. We were standing in the driveway at my parents home in a rural location during this incident. Fortunately we were able to stop this fool before someone got hurt. We did threaten to notify the law if it happened again since he was shooting across the state highway towards our house.
And another thing, legal does not make it safe or moral.
As I said before, The problem isn't hunters; it's inconsiderate & irresponsible people.
Bullets whizzing by huh...you know what that means? It means it most likely already hit the ground and was tumbling. No, the moron shouldn't have been shooting towards someone's home, that was/is irresponsible and a violation of Col Cooper's "4th Commandment". When a rifle round is in free flight and travels near you, you will hear the supersonic overpressure (a loud crack) after the bullet has passed you. Since this is nothing like what you described, you were in little danger...like most hikers on the AT during hunting season.
Bullets whizzing by huh...you know what that means? It means it most likely already hit the ground and was tumbling. No, the moron shouldn't have been shooting towards someone's home, that was/is irresponsible and a violation of Col Cooper's "4th Commandment". When a rifle round is in free flight and travels near you, you will hear the supersonic overpressure (a loud crack) after the bullet has passed you. Since this is nothing like what you described, you were in little danger...like most hikers on the AT during hunting season.
I am sorry if I confused you as this post was about a separate event used to illustrate irresponsible use of firearms. The bullets were whizzing by overhead, not on the ground as you state. I'm amazed by the self proclaimed experts who dispute both Phreak's and my accounts of these two events with absolutely no knowledge of them. You weren't there at either one.
take-a-knee
11-16-2008, 10:54
I am sorry if I confused you as this post was about a separate event used to illustrate irresponsible use of firearms. The bullets were whizzing by overhead, not on the ground as you state. I'm amazed by the self proclaimed experts who dispute both Phreak's and my accounts of these two events with absolutely no knowledge of them. You weren't there at either one.
No I wasn't there but I've had a few bullets "whiz by me" in my time and I have at least a minimal understanding of the physics involved. After a bullet hits the ground, it totally loses it's attitude and spins/tumbles, this causes it to shed velocity very fast. It bounces just like a baseball. It is, of course, still dangerous but not for very long.
Hey Normal,
Do you believe that crap or do you just like to make it up as you go along?
oldfivetango
11-16-2008, 12:17
First of all, anyone who has ever successfully hunted, knows that deer don't just drop dead instantly where they stand after you shoot them. Not unless you land a fatal kill with a very high powered firearm. This being likely a bow kill, the animal likely ran for a hundred yards or so. So it likely wouldn't have been obvious that the trail was nearby.
Secondly, as previously mentioned, the entrails probably wouldn't have been there more than a few hours. Folks.....IT'S BIO DEGRADEABLE!!!!!! Hunters do this all the time. It's normal. If it offends your sensibillities, get over it.
Third, if you approach a trail from the woods on either side, unless you walk in front of a trail marker, there's no telling what freakin' trail you might be on, or for that matter, it might as well be a local track.
The woods are never big enough, but if you don't get over petty ***** like this, it's not going to get any better. I used to be a cop, and I used to get complaints from hunters all the time that hikers were trashing their blinds, tree stands, and spooking deer when they were hunting. How bad is this in comparison? At least hunters are smart enough to put cameras on trees to catch the scumbag in the act!
For the record,every deer I have ever shot dropped dead instantly-otherwise I would not have take the shot.It is very simple if you don't
gut shoot animals with a gun or hunt with a bow.
Lack of instantaneous kill is why I will never consider using a bow when
much more humane means of harvest are available.
And anytime I am around someone I don't know(and some people that I
do know)that are carrying a weapon,it makes me very uncomfortable for
some reason.:)
Oldfivetango
sticks&stones
11-16-2008, 13:08
I dont mind hunters on or about the trail. more than once they have cut off a piece of meat for me to eat. The only one thing that bothers me about hunters is that some (not all) dress their kills in the creeks, for their own convenience. More than once I've pulled water from a creek, hiked on and upstream came across the blood and guts of a dressed deer in and about the water I was drinking.
saimyoji
11-18-2008, 11:45
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,453464,00.html
Two Speed
11-18-2008, 11:48
. . . They at least could have left me some.They did. You just didn't appreciate what they left you. :eek:
the goat
11-18-2008, 11:55
First of all, anyone who has ever successfully hunted, knows that deer don't just drop dead instantly where they stand after you shoot them.
Mine do.
A twelve gauge works well. Double 00 buckshot. Less than 30 yards.
They hit the ground dead.
No need to "hunt" a poorly shot deer.
Kill them clean or don't shoot.
Hey Normal,
Do you believe that crap or do you just like to make it up as you go along?
actually, i agree w/ normal. the last two i've killed dropped right where i shot them. i used a 12 gauge and was inside of 30 yards both times.
Nearly Normal
11-19-2008, 06:59
Hey Normal,
Do you believe that crap or do you just like to make it up as you go along?
No crap.
Homer&Marje
04-08-2009, 08:03
Ok... I'm going to make a few posts to this thread and hopefully show the difference between the way to dispose of an animal carcass...and the way not to.
Feel free to comment. First, how not to.
There were two carcasses here, 20 feet apart, one head removed and moved close to the other for antler removal, guts left in one big pile to rot. All ten feet from the trail. Looked like a fall kill, buried under snow for winter....just starting to really rot.
Homer&Marje
04-08-2009, 08:13
And here's how it should be done. Bones and guts obviously removed from area, either buried off the trail or packed out. Only bones found were in some feces from something that picked at the surroundings for sure.