View Full Version : Need for a compass
Gator 65
10-21-2008, 21:23
I have heard different opinions on whether or not a compass is a necessity on the AT. I will be starting a thru hike in March 2009 and obviously want to go as light as possible. I would like some feed back on items that should or could be left at home.
My pack weight now is 24 lbs with 5 days of food and 2 liters of water. Any suggestions on which trail book is the more practical.
Jack Tarlin
10-21-2008, 21:37
Most thru-hikers don't know how to use a compass, much less carry one.
In all likelihood, you won't need one, tho maps are another story. The prudent hiker carries and uses the best maps he can find.
As far as which Trail guidebook to use, the three principal guidebooks, which are all updated annually, are quite similar. In recent years, the most popular of the three has been the Thru-Hiker's Handbook. The most accurate of the three is generally considered to be the Thru-Hiker's Companion. The 2008 editions of the annual guidebooks should be available in late December or early January.
Buy a button compass that can be pined or clipped onto clothes (I’ve seen them for sale for $4.00.) Hook it to your coat or pack. It for all practical purposes it weights nothing. A button compass is not as useful as a full fledged compass, but for trail use it should do.
River Runner
10-21-2008, 22:27
Buy a button compass that can be pined or clipped onto clothes (I’ve seen them for sale for $4.00.) Hook it to your coat or pack. It for all practical purposes it weights nothing. A button compass is not as useful as a full fledged compass, but for trail use it should do.
I agree with Bob. A teensy compass that shows general direction should be all you would need on the AT. In addition to the button type, you can get some integrated into other gear (such as a small thermometer, a whistle, or even a drinking bottle lid), or ones that clip on a watchband.
_terrapin_
10-21-2008, 22:54
Tiny lightweight "button" compass, as mentioned. You'll probably never need it, but it just might come in handy. You never know.
bigcranky
10-22-2008, 07:11
I had a large orienteering compass which I stopped carrying for lack of use. (Yes, I know how to use it.) After several years I picked up a tiny compass that fits on my watch band. Love it. It's not for serious navigation, but it helps for all the times I'd like some general idea of direction, but otherwise can't see the sun or other indicators.
I've grown rather attached to my old compass, which has an aluminum case. I find the plastic ones break. I think the little mini-compasses are fine though, when combined with a whistle or thermometer or something like that.
The latest Backpacker mag recommends ditching both map and compass, but I like to have the map "to see and to see what you see". The compass is so I have an idea of which direction I should be heading in the morning....
Sour
SOBO since 2004
leeki pole
10-22-2008, 12:29
I never leave the trailhead, even on a dayhike without a map and compass. Even a good compass weighs next to nothing. I've played with a GPS and they're fun but can't replace a good compass and map. But then again, I'm old school.
Two Speed
10-22-2008, 12:33
I'd recommend carrying some kind of compass, but nothing elaborate. The one I use is incorporated in my Timex. Guaranteed accurate to the nearest 45 degrees, but was sufficient for my needs the one time I got screwed up on the AT.
Navigation is more of an issue on the Pinhoti Trail, and so far that same compass has gotten the job done.
NICKTHEGREEK
10-22-2008, 12:33
No compass or map would be to me, unthinkable.
I carry a small compass carabiner which weights six tents of an ounce.
It clips to the front of my pack belt which makes it always available.
Panzer
johnny quest
10-22-2008, 14:58
think about the circumstances in which carrying a map would be critical. then think how much more useful that map would be if you had a compass. in bad weather how would you orientate the map without it?
always carry a map of the area you will be in. and when you carry a map carry at least the most rudimentary compass when you carry a map.
amen.
Not needed. The trail is really hard to loose. You will, however, find that you need to re-trace your steps sometimes to make sure you are going the right way.
Kirby
Two Speed
10-22-2008, 15:30
Sooo Kirby, given the choice between a watch with a compass built in and one without you'd argue against a minimal compass on principal?
Yeah, I know I'm putting words in your mouth, but that is one logical extension that could be made from your statement. Basically, if you're careful about how you do things a compass can be part of your gear with no weight or volume penalty. Given that a compass can be handy I'm gonna vote for having one.
YMMV.
Rain Man
10-22-2008, 15:43
Since you asked--
I like maps and compasses, so I carry them.
As far as whether you should, I think of it like insurance. Wise to have all the time; critical to have at a critical time.
Weight is so trifling as to be an irrelevant consideration, IMHO.
In the end, hike your own hike.
Rain:sunMan
.
Compass or not? That's a good question. It's always high up on the lists of 10 essentials. And the small ones weigh only a fraction of an ounce.
I think mine is a comfort item. I'll probalby never need to depend on it, but there are times, perhaps in a thick fog, or above treeline when there are not other reference points, or perhaps at a confusing intersection, when it might come in handy. For the small weight penalty, I think I'll keep bringing mine with me.
The only time i used it was to check which way to set up my tent into the weather. You get really good at looking at the sun and immediately knowing your orientation.
mountain squid
10-22-2008, 16:22
I have heard different opinions on whether or not a compass is a necessity on the AT. Check this one out: compass/thermo/whistle/etc (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8586952)
I carry an older version of this without the light and signal mirror (I might have to upgrade). It is always within reach on a shoulder strap D-ring.
See you on the trail,
mt squid
sasquatch2014
10-22-2008, 16:29
I have a watch with one built in along with my ALt. I find this helpful to know where I may be on the map using a rough elevation you can almost always know where you are on the map/trail. Plus I like to know how much further to the top it is, especially at the end of the day.:D
In my ONE experience with a compass without a map: Tis the path that leads to misery!!
There are a number of times where the AT NOBO is actually SOBO (& SOBO is NOBO ), some times even for only a few miles & I'm guessing even a few hundred yards in places. I, starting my NOBO section hike, started at one of these places, AND I mis remembered the direction I was supposed to go. The compass confirmed that the direction that I thought I was supposed to go, was indeed NORTH. WRONG! If I had a map, even I suspect a bad one, I would have gone the right way at the start. :rolleyes:
A mapless compass may help you start your day, if you took a bearing as to which way you should go BEFORE you go to bed, but then, if you are like me, you could misremember which way that was :p
IMHO:
If you must carry a compass, then carry a map.
Don't want to carry a map? Don't bother with the compass.
Most times when the guides say something is East from the trail, it is trail right for a northbounder. West is left. I usually go with that premis, & so far havn't been disapointed.
Yet :eek:
paradoxb3
10-22-2008, 17:24
couldnt agree with doctari more.
the trail certainly isnt straight N and S. I once found myself confused while hiking, as i hadnt seen a blaze for a while... so i got to worrying that i'd taken a wrong fork or something, even though i was sure i was on the right path. then i started thinking about which direction i was heading. i was supposed to be sectioning NOBO from springer to hiawassee. it was in the evening and the sun was basically to my right, so i knew i was actually headed S! i knew for sure that i hadnt just turned around in the middle of the trail, so i looked at my map and realized this was correct, so i kept going and going. eventually i found more white blazes, and the trail hooked back around in a northeastern direction.
it was about that time i realized that i had compasses built into the grips of my cheapo walmart trekking poles... i never even thought to check them! i guess my own sense of direction and navigation by the sun or stars must be good enough that i dont really need a compass (at least during fair weather). however if i hadnt had a map with me, i probably would have assumed i was going the wrong way and would have backtracked, and then rehiked 1-2 miles just out of doubt.
moral of the story:
a compass alone is pretty much useless if you dont already know where you're at or where you're supposed to be headed. i find a good map much more useful a tool.
Quite honestly I would feel a bit undressed if I were to hit the trail without a compass ,a watch and the necessary maps
I've always carried a Silva compass in a pack -strap pocket and while I iinfrequently use it to get a directional bearing I do get a lot of use out of it's straight edge with the map scales and it's magnifying glass
skinewmexico
10-22-2008, 18:00
The batteries have never gond out on my compass. Or map. And you can always use a watch with hands for a compass.
Jack Tarlin
10-22-2008, 18:23
Wow. Some of the "expert" advice here is pretty funny. I especially liked the comment that the Trail is really hard to lose, but that you'll need to re-trace your steps sometime to make sure you're going the right way. :rolleyes:
Um, excuse me, but this seems to me that you're saying that you WILL get off the Trail on occasion, you WILL need to do some thinking about where the hell you are and which way you should go, and there WILL be some uncertainty as to where you are and whether or not you're going the right way.
Oh, but other than that, the Trail is hard to lose.
Right. :D
Map and compass skills are always useful in the backcountry. And these skills are useless without the right tools. A small compass will do nothing to your pack weight. And at the least, bring a current map always, and know how to use it.
Cuz fact is, sometimes the Trail is very easy to lose, and it happens to everyone sooner or later.
buff_jeff
10-22-2008, 18:34
I don't carry a compass, but carrying a map makes me feel a lot more comfortable. I feel fairly confident that I could terrain associate my way out of a bad situation with a good map.
WalkingStick75
10-22-2008, 19:34
Compass on the AT, you will PROBABLY never need it. For the 1oz I will carry one anytime I go on a trip.
BTW I was kicking around in the woods a mile from home last year. This patch of woods has a lot of small ponds and marsh areas and I got seriously confused for a quite a while. That is until I pulled out my 1 oz compass and walked home. Like I said you will probably never need one... But
Jack Tarlin
10-22-2008, 19:40
A compass alone will only provide direction. This is only useful if you already know EXACTLY where you are and EXACTLY which way you need to go.
A map would be much more useful.
Knowing which way is "North" is kinda useless unless you have a REALLY good idea of what lies immediately to your North. Otherwise, you risk knowing which way you're heading, but remaining just, if not more lost. Knowing which way the compass says you're heading is pretty useless unless you know that this is the way you actually wanna be going.
i like to carry a little cheapo compass. it's probably the same thing as locking your door. it's not really going to stop a burglar that wants in, but makes me feel better
Wise Old Owl
10-23-2008, 10:03
Fyi I was waiting for the above post, although Sasq. must have spent a lot of money on his I had the worst luck with Timex electonics & watches - After three of them went bad two years ago, I can honestly say an Timex is not what it used to be. I carry a cheap Brunton in the top of the pack and a mini embedded in the hike pole. And so long as I have blazes and a map there's little use for either until I bushwack.
As has been pointed out many times, the trail is well blazed, so the most frequent use of maps is to satisfy curiosity. Some of us hikers like to know the names of the surrounding mountains and other elements of the landscape.
To do that accurately, you need to orientate the map. All maps have little arrows pointing to north and compass north. Though if you are reasonably skilled at interpreting map symbols, you sometimes you can tell by the lay of the land how to orientate a map. But there's nothing like a compass to speed up the process.
Jack says most hikers don't know how to read a compass. I'll add that most also don't know how to read a map.
But for the purposes that entice many of us to carry a map -- to identify the surrounding landscape -- a compass is extremely useful and simple to use. All you really need to know is which direction the compass says is north. Then you just line up the compass north line printed on the map in the direction the compass says is north.
Then you will know that stuff to the left on the map, is that stuff you see on the left in the real world. And the stuff on the right side of the map is similarly what you can see to the right. Well, there are complications. But this works most of the time.
In fact if you orientate the map with the compass often enough you will learn to relate what you see in the real world with the symbols on the map. With the help of a tiny compass, you will gradually learn how to read map symbols without half trying.
For these purposes you don't need a complicated compass. Any compass that has a dial or a pointer that always shows north will do. The compass I have used most often in recent years was a half inch in diameter and imbedded into the top of the Komerbell hand grip I had attached to my alder hiking stick.
Sadly the cover of that compass has become etched from years of being swathed in DEET and the needle is invisible. So now I carry a compass in my pocket, the pocket opposite the one containing an ounce of DEET. That compass weighs less than an ounce, but even lighter ones are available as several in this thread have pointed out.
Weary
At lookout points, map and compass helps me discover which mountain(s)/valley(s)/stream(s) I am hiking next and name the sights my camera will capture. :cool:
I agree Tin Man. I have never needed a compass on the AT, but I do carry a compass and map so that I know the names of the mountains in the distance or the name of the town or community that I am looking at. I guess I am just curious.
I agree also. Even when I know the route and its well marked a compass is just way too much fun to leave home. I always bring map, compass, watch, thermometer. I must admit that sometimes I bring a pretty sad excuse for a map, but I always have something. Those 4 things all help me keep my senses but also help satisfy my curiousity and get the most out of my experience. How far and long did I hike? How cold is it? What are my options from here? What time and direction did the sun set, or the moon rise? I also always bring fire and tea to stop and regain my senses when I lose them, but the map, compass, watch, thermometer are also learning tools. Tide tables are handy also, just to be sure. I write that information down before I take the footpath, and double check it at the first high or low tide. I don't use a GPS, but I like all that other stuff. Even on the AT even if you don't need that stuff to get from A to B, it helps you get the most out of your experience. I would leave a camera home before I left a map, compass, watch, thermometer home. A camera only records what you observe. Those other things help you to observe more information in the first place, and add to you memories rather than try and replace them. Not saying I wouldn't take a camera. Just saying I wouldn't overuse it, and that it is essentially different. A field guide of plants and stuff would also be handy. If you see something interesting you can look it up right away, and you might stand a better chance of remembering it if you knew a little more about it. A camera doesn't do that. It doesn't add anything to the moment.
We do not rest satisfied with the present. We anticipate the future as too slow in coming, as if in order to hasten its course; or we recall the past, to stop its too rapid flight. So imprudent are we that we wander in the times which are not ours and do not think of the only one which belongs to us; and so idle are we that we dream of those times which are no more and thoughtlessly overlook that which alone exists. For the present is generally painful to us. We conceal it from our sight, because it troubles us; and, if it be delightful to us, we regret to see it pass away. We try to sustain it by the future and think of arranging matters which are not in our power, for a time which we have no certainty of reaching.
Let each one examine his thoughts, and he will find them all occupied with the past and the future. We scarcely ever think of the present; and if we think of it, it is only to take light from it to arrange the future. The present is never our end. The past and the present are our means; the future alone is our end. So we never live, but we hope to live; and, as we are always preparing to be happy, it is inevitable we should never be so.
- Blaise Pascal. Pensees
I carried neither a compass nor a map on the AT. I never felt like I needed either. The only times I ever had difficulties finding the trail were when it crossed a road and didn't necessarily connect directly across the road. I probably only lost a total of an hour on the entire AT looking for the trail. The only time I ever had difficulty finding signs/blazes was in a snowstorm in southern VA. I saw a trail sign which was completely covered in snow. I scraped it off, and it had an arrow with a caption "View". Needless to say, it was a whiteout, and there would have been no view on that particular side trail.
Haiku.
Siegeofmalta
10-24-2008, 19:24
I have taken the time to learn how to use a compass and map. I always carry them with me when I hike. Sometimes it takes a little work to get a map of the hiking area. I have always felt glad about this. Compass is used to orient the map. It is a real blast to then use the map to look at the surrounding Mtns., etc., and identify them. Part of the fun for me. Incidently, I use the map more often than the trail guide to find water sources.
I have taken the time to learn how to use a compass and map. I always carry them with me when I hike. Sometimes it takes a little work to get a map of the hiking area. I have always felt glad about this. Compass is used to orient the map. It is a real blast to then use the map to look at the surrounding Mtns., etc., and identify them. Part of the fun for me. Incidently, I use the map more often than the trail guide to find water sources.
smart, very smart :cool:
Probably the simplest and best explaination I have read for a carrying compass and map.
A watch is also very handy. Not just for dead reckoning or knowing how long you slept. I particularly like to keep track of time between the time I lose it and the time I get my crap back together again. Alot can happen during that crazy in between time. Like a map and compass, a watch helps you screw your head back on.
trouthunter
10-24-2008, 20:06
As I have said many times, even if you do not really need a map or compass it is good to carry such because... practice makes perfect. You can not learn how to read a map or compass in your living room, well, not really, you can familiarize your self with them to some degree with the help of a book.
You certainly cannot learn if you one day suddenly find yourself lost,....then you will say, boy, I shoulda learned this while I was on my thru hike!!
A map and compass are fairly useless in a forest - or a "green tunnel," if you will. You need to be able to see landmarks in order to orient the map. Sure, you can tell which direction you're going, but not where you are on the map. I attempted to use just a map and compass when I hiked the CDT, and got a GPS at the first outfitter in Colorado (I hiked north). I know how to use a map and compass, but they just aren't that useful unless you have good sight lines (ironically, just the map and compass would have been more useful in Colorado and Wyoming because of the incredible sight lines).
Haiku.
A map and compass are fairly useless in a forest - or a "green tunnel," if you will. You need to be able to see landmarks in order to orient the map. Sure, you can tell which direction you're going, but not where you are on the map. I attempted to use just a map and compass when I hiked the CDT, and got a GPS at the first outfitter in Colorado (I hiked north). I know how to use a map and compass, but they just aren't that useful unless you have good sight lines (ironically, just the map and compass would have been more useful in Colorado and Wyoming because of the incredible sight lines).
Haiku.Geez what did all those folks do before GPS, and how do I get around bushwacking in the New Brunswick woods with just a map and compass and watch? Well, truth is not very well but I get by, lol, but there is more to using a map and compass than what you are describing. Dead reckoning for one. Yeah it gets interesting when the trees are really close together, but its lot of fun, and good practice. Good way to develop your sense of direction and speed and distance and and to get to know yourself and your own natural tendencies. I'm sure you learn alot with a GPS also, but reckon people should dead reckon more often.
take-a-knee
10-26-2008, 22:52
Geez what did all those folks do before GPS, and how do I get around bushwacking in the New Brunswick woods with just a map and compass and watch? Well, truth is not very well but I get by, lol, but there is more to using a map and compass than what you are describing. Dead reckoning for one. Yeah it gets interesting when the trees are really close together, but its lot of fun, and good practice. Good way to develop your sense of direction and speed and distance and and to get to know yourself and your own natural tendencies. I'm sure you learn alot with a GPS also, but reckon people should dead reckon more often.
Good advice, even with a GPS I still navigate with map and compass, I only use the GPS to fix positions. I will admit that trac-back feature is awesome, especially at night.
A map and compass are fairly useless in a forest - or a "green tunnel," if you will. You need to be able to see landmarks in order to orient the map. Sure, you can tell which direction you're going, but not where you are on the map. I attempted to use just a map and compass when I hiked the CDT, and got a GPS at the first outfitter in Colorado (I hiked north). I know how to use a map and compass, but they just aren't that useful unless you have good sight lines (ironically, just the map and compass would have been more useful in Colorado and Wyoming because of the incredible sight lines).
Haiku.
sure a map and compass is hard if you don't know where you are. that's why you need to keep track of where you are... a map and compass can help here.
Even if you lost track or discover you must have made some errors and are not where you thought you were you should be able to stop and have some tea and make a plan to find your way out by making some assumptions and testing those assumptions while dead reckoning your way out. It's really a blast and you learn alot. Practice within a contained area or have a GPS as a backup if you feel you really need one. If I had a GPS I would still bring a map and compass and watch.
If you learn to get yourself lost and found again with a map and compass and watch by dead reckoning and other map and compass skills you will have much better skills for getting yourself found if you get yourself lost without them, than if you are used to using a GPS and find yourself lost without one.
with a gps you have 8 hours more or less until the batteries run out, with a compass you have until the food runs out or you figure out what is edible and keep going
I would like to get a wind up watch.
take-a-knee
10-27-2008, 06:02
with a gps you have 8 hours more or less until the batteries run out, with a compass you have until the food runs out or you figure out what is edible and keep going
Excellent point.
NICKTHEGREEK
10-27-2008, 06:26
A map and compass are fairly useless in a forest - or a "green tunnel," if you will. You need to be able to see landmarks in order to orient the map. Sure, you can tell which direction you're going, but not where you are on the map. I attempted to use just a map and compass when I hiked the CDT, and got a GPS at the first outfitter in Colorado (I hiked north). I know how to use a map and compass, but they just aren't that useful unless you have good sight lines (ironically, just the map and compass would have been more useful in Colorado and Wyoming because of the incredible sight lines).
Haiku.
Once you get beyond the Texaco maps, topographic features- things like streams, gullys, hills are pretty good land marks.
You find your self in creek bed oriented from NW to SE, it's not to hard to find on a map, not a pinpoint fix but a start.
You can be completely under the canopy and still know you are knee deep in a fast moving stream. You might want to rethink your confidence in map and compass skills.
I always carry a compass, and though I rarely need it for navigation, I figure the mirror is worth having for the (very) occasional grooming, or possibly for use as a signal mirror if rescue is needed.
If you take side trails off of the AT, the mirror is probably worth having. The AT, as many know, has been followed by a guide dog who began to recognize the white blazes after a few days of guiding his owner, Bill Irwin through the mountains of Georgia.
trouthunter
10-27-2008, 17:57
A map and compass are fairly useless in a forest - or a "green tunnel," if you will. You need to be able to see landmarks in order to orient the map. Sure, you can tell which direction you're going, but not where you are on the map. I attempted to use just a map and compass when I hiked the CDT, and got a GPS at the first outfitter in Colorado (I hiked north). I know how to use a map and compass, but they just aren't that useful unless you have good sight lines (ironically, just the map and compass would have been more useful in Colorado and Wyoming because of the incredible sight lines).
Haiku.
not trying to be mean but you do not know how to use a map and compass, like so many others on this site who claim they have nav. skills, and then prove they don't by their own statements.
You orient the map with the compass.
To determine your position on the map, which you should have been keeping up with,
you use the terrain markers you studied on the map that morning,.. Oh, you didn't do that.
In that case you use the compass and your altimeter to fix your location the old fashioned way. For details, take an orienteering course, or at least read a book like the ones from the Sierra Club or NOLS.
A GPSR will only tell you where you are, and where you have been IF you enter the info correctly. It can not pick a negotiable route for you. Even if you have your forward waypoints or your destination coords. a GPSR can only tell you how to get there as the crow flies. Even the GPSR's with map tech are only useful if you already have good map and nav. skills.
There are no short cuts unless you are just going to follow someone.
Granted the AT is easy to follow, that is exactly what makes it the perfect place to carry and use a map and compass, to build the skills!
"The next person who asks, How much farther? has to eat the freeze dried food!".....By: trouthunter
When my three kids were little, we spent a lot of time walking on trails. My wife and I would discuss among ourselves the length of the trails. Our conversations were loaded with expressions like: "three point nine," and "five point six."
So many, in fact, that the kids stopped asking "how much farther?" and began asking, "How many more points?"
Weary
Macallister Vagabond
10-28-2008, 11:06
I am in the habit of carrying a compass. I do a lot of winter climbing and there have been times when it has damn well saved my life. It's usefulness on the AT is certainly questionable, though. The only place I can ever imagine you'd get into serious trouble would be in Maine. It might be a good idea to bring one with you on your way to the 100 mile wilderness.
trouthunter
10-28-2008, 20:06
When my three kids were little, we spent a lot of time walking on trails. My wife and I would discuss among ourselves the length of the trails. Our conversations were loaded with expressions like: "three point nine," and "five point six."
So many, in fact, that the kids stopped asking "how much farther?" and began asking, "How many more points?"
Weary
HaHa, same thing used to happen to me, kids always asked "How much farther?"
I would show them on the map where we started, where we were, and where the campsite was. I thought I did good!
Five minutes later, "How much farther is it?":-?:datz
I really miss those days.
Most trails in the south are so well blazed/used that a compass is really not needed. Besides, there is not much wilderness left. I can usually see the houses and farms from the ridge tops. There have been only 2 times that I felt the need for a compass in the past 3 years.
papa john
01-11-2009, 07:45
I just bought an inexpensive map compass and learned how to use it. I will be taking my maps with me when I hike. Not so much to find my way, but to tell me what I am looking at way off in the distance. Plus, it can help you to find streams and such that are not marked on the trail.
I have started leaving mine at home. It is not so much the weight, it is just one more thing I find that I do not use or need. If you get spun around a lot maybe, the AT is extremely well marked, with maps and knowinig where you are, compass is not needed. And knowing how to really use map & compass is something most do not know how to do. Found that out on a Search & Rescue team, it takes practice!
canoehead
01-11-2009, 08:28
Good Luck
I have heard different opinions on whether or not a compass is a necessity on the AT. I will be starting a thru hike in March 2009 and obviously want to go as light as possible. I would like some feed back on items that should or could be left at home.
My pack weight now is 24 lbs with 5 days of food and 2 liters of water. Any suggestions on which trail book is the more practical.
you are going to live in the woods. i think it is your personal responsibility to be able to resonably get your ownself out of certain sticky situations you are more than likely going to encounter on the trail, and that includes carrying a map and a compass. i don't think i've ever been on a trail, except maybe the botanical gardens, where i didn't at least once just stop for a second and go "huh?" yes, the at is well-marked, but there are millions of places where suddenly the trail isn't there anymore and you have to turn around and look (up, down, sideways) to locate where it went. say you do it on a nasty drizzle day where the temps are around 40 and you cant' see past 20 ft. you're cold, you're wet, you're exhausted, and you look up to see where you are and you get disoriented. you could turn around and a shelter's right there or you could get yourself into trouble. i'm not saying the map and compass will fix all that, but you've got one more thing on your side then.
I would go without a map before I would go without a compass. That's a bit of a generalization, because it depends on where you are. I would always want a map because it's nice to know where you are in the world, but a compass is just so easy, logisitcally speaking. Once you have one, there it is, and it hardly weighs anything. Mine is a little heavier because its an old metal silva and a bit of a keepsake. A good windup pocket watch or wrist watch would be handy also, and nice to have, even if there are cheaper and more practical alternatives and the batteries last pretty much forever. I look to get a mechanical windup again some day. Maps are a little tougher logistically, but they add alot of value to a trip even besides the safety factor. I could see going without one on some legs of a trip, not because I didn't want one, just because I wasn't able to get one in the town I was in when I ran off the one map and onto the next. I would always buy one though if it was there, and I think I would always drop the old one off in a hikers box, unless it was already stuffed full of them.
When you get above treeline in the "whites" of N.H. in the clouds, I'm not talking about rain and fog, but IN THE CLOUDS, temps in the valley's of 65-70 degrees, above treeline it's 45-50, with 30 mph+ winds, you'll be glad you carried that 'EXTRA?" ounce of compass. YA GOTTA BELIEVE ME,I go there OFTEN!!! I live around here people die up there EVERY year spring., SUMMER and fall.
papa john
01-11-2009, 09:30
I can't tell you how many times I have seen people leave a shelter or lunch spot or whatever and start going the wrong way. The trail is marked but there is no difference in the markings from N to S!
I can't tell you how many times I have seen people leave a shelter or lunch spot or whatever and start going the wrong way. The trail is marked but there is no difference in the markings from N to S!lol
I've done that a few times, and that's going along a coast. We use the same markings as the AT standard. It's rather funny when the Bay of Fundy suddenly pops up on the wrong side of the trail. When the trail gets squirrelly even a compass and map doesn't stop that from happening, though they do help sort things out.
papa john
01-11-2009, 10:26
lol
I've done that a few times, and that's going along a coast. We use the same markings as the AT standard. It's rather funny when the Bay of Fundy suddenly pops up on the wrong side of the trail. When the trail gets squirrelly even a compass and map doesn't stop that from happening, though they do help sort things out.
You're right, north isn't always north on the trail...
Slo-go'en
01-11-2009, 13:21
You're right, north isn't always north on the trail...
Yeah, at times it can be east, west and sometimes even south! When getting back on the trail from a shelter side trail, you just have to remember which way you came in or hope there's a sign. Otherwise in a mile or two you could be thinking "Damn, this all looks familer" :-?
I've only used my compass once to help find the trail again. This was back in the 80's in the section of NC where some locals were messing with the trail because the forest service took thier land.
All in all, a small compass doesn't weigh much and it might come in handy someday, so why not have one?
There are really two reasons to carry a compass. The first is for general awareness and information, even when you are on a well marked trail. The second is for emergencies, when you have to go off trail, or you need to know exactly where you are in relation to local geography.
I have a pretty good sense of direction, but I often find that I am not completely certain about my position. This becomes really interesting when you are in a place where trail junctions and false trails are confusing or tempting. Both map and compass can help to put you on the right trail. There have been many times when I have gotten completely turned around through mistaking the landmarks. This happens most often when the sky is overcast, visibility is limited and the weather is bad. For some strange reason, things usually go quite well when the sun is shining brightly.
When things go sideways bigtime, it can happen at any time, and in any conditions, but again, it often happens when the chances of you being confused are at a maximum. So there you are, with reduced capacity, energy low, adrenaline high and not a clue where you are, which way offers the best chance to get out, get found, get dry, get water, etc. If you have your map and compass, and you know how to use them, and have been paying a bit of attention to your surroundings, you have a critical advantage which may save your life, money or get you out of a lot of trouble.
I always want my compass with me, and I always want a map when I am in unfamiliar territory, because it is my insurance policy. Even on a trail like a highway, you might find that when you are out there getting yourself into trouble, everybody else is prudently off trail in camp. I always carry plenty of stupid with me, so I know I am perfectly capable of screwing up at any moment. I just think it prudent to give myself an even chance of surviving my own idiocy, or a mischance somehow not of my own devising. I also want to be able to sight a distant mountaintop, or any other feature, and be able to find out what it is and how far away. Just sightseeing, but also general awareness. I always want to know where I am in relation to landmarks and resources that may help me on my way.
Of course, it is useless to carry a map and compass unless you know how to use them, and do use them often, for practice, and to keep the current trail picture fresh in your mind. If you are on a well known (by you) trail, and never get turned around, good for you. Do whatever you want. But just the same: Have you ever been off this trail you know so well? Have you been over it recently, in this time of year, these weather conditions, this time of day, this direction? It's surprising sometimes how different it can look when some things change.
papa john
01-11-2009, 17:11
The first time we day hiked the Pinhoti we were in an area where the trail markers are few and far between and we got off the trail somehow. Luckily we had a map and were able to find an outcropping where we could get the lay of the land around us and find our position on the map. From that I was able to bushwhack straight up the hill about 100' and we were back on the trail.
I actually read something useful in Backpacker Mag. When stopping for a break or overnight, mark the ground in the direction you were hiking as soon as you stop.
Better to have it and not need it--than to need it and not have it.
If carrying an extra ounce in the form of a compass is going to kill you, you probably aren't in any shape to be hiking anyway. There is no reason not to carry one. Especially if it is a button compass on your watch or hiking poles.
Yeti, you have the suggested the best use of a compass. Thanks.
We have the Wal-Mart poles with little compasses in the handles and it is helpful to have at least a general idea of where you're going. I know there's been a couple of times where we've gotten turned around or on the wrong trail. Not that we were lost-lost--we'd have hit some landmark or junction eventually--but it was nice to save the time. Back in the summer we were on the AT south of Port Clinton and hit a cross trail blazed with double white marks (I need to find the person who had that idea and smack them.) Since there was no obvious blaze ahead on the actual trail, we naturally assumed we should turn. After about the fifth set of double blazes with no obvious turn, though, I started to get suspicious, and, sure enough, checking the compass showed that we were going at a right angle to where we should have been. So having at least a cheap compass along is helpful, although on the AT I wouldn't call it an absolute necessity, particularly if you have a map.
One other thing, to be completely nitpicky: "orientate" is one of those words like "utilize"; there's no reason to actually use it. "Orient" means exactly the same thing.
the_black_spot
01-16-2009, 09:15
Buy a button compass that can be pined or clipped onto clothes (I’ve seen them for sale for $4.00.) Hook it to your coat or pack. It for all practical purposes it weights nothing. A button compass is not as useful as a full fledged compass, but for trail use it should do.
guys, you can get a real compass for like 10 bucks and its guaranteed for life by the manufacturer. i got one at a local outfitter. a quick googling of 'how to use a compass' should help you from there.
its by no means necessary, but i just laugh when i hear people discuss whether it is worth taking. in a pinch, it can be triple its weight in gold, weighs nothing, costs nothing. when in an unknown area, why would you not want one of the world's oldest and simplest navigtion devices?
jersey joe
01-16-2009, 09:40
guys, you can get a real compass for like 10 bucks and its guaranteed for life by the manufacturer. i got one at a local outfitter. a quick googling of 'how to use a compass' should help you from there.
its by no means necessary, but i just laugh when i hear people discuss whether it is worth taking. in a pinch, it can be triple its weight in gold, weighs nothing, costs nothing. when in an unknown area, why would you not want one of the world's oldest and simplest navigtion devices?
This is the way I thought before my thru hike and I'm sure a lot of people feel this way before a long hike. I carried my $10 compass for about 1000 miles and barely used it, so I sent it home. A typical thru hiker will NOT make very good use of a compass.
audiophile
01-16-2009, 09:57
It's easy to tell which direction is which from the sun, the stars or a topo map but it doesn't hurt to carry a button compass.
No compass or map would be to me, unthinkable.
And to me. I can't imagine not carrying both. I even carry a compass and map when I walk one of our 800 acres of town land trust preserves, all of which I know about as well as I know my lawn.
I have a tiny compass imbedded in the cork top of my walking stick, but unfortunately the plastic has become etched over the years from DEET -- so now I slip an old -- but rather sophisticated -- orienteering compass into my pocket when I take my frequent walks. I use it every time I wander very far off the trail to look for a flower, tree, or possible trail relocation, or this snowy winter to follow an animal track. Total weight, 1.1 ounce.
Weary
Can you believe this much discussion about a compass?
I wonder if Earl Shaffer carried a compass on his 1948 thru-hike. I have his book but I don't remember reading it.
Can you believe this much discussion about a compass?
I wonder if Earl Shaffer carried a compass on his 1948 thru-hike. I have his book but I don't remember reading it.
He did.
He did.
Given that the trail had not completely been reassembled in 1948, he probably needed it at some points.
SunnyWalker
01-17-2009, 00:55
Mountain Squid: hey it looks good. Do you have this item? How does the thermometer rate? compass?
SunnyWalker
01-17-2009, 01:05
One may orient a map with a compass in the dark with a flashlight or match. You do not need to refer to the terrain. You can go from there. A GPS, on a trail like I have seen on the AT is not useful unless you can get line-of-sight to the sat. This could be a problem. For this reason I have not taken my GPS on AT. Map and compass, yes. In the essential list, for sure. If you do not plan to get off the trail you probably won't need it. but it always the unexpected that happens. That's when emergencies start. What will you do if you have to take a shortcut due to an some medical emergency? without the map and compass you might be stuck to the trail, and thus going many miles out of your way. Using the map you can find water easier then the trail guide, imo. See the sights? You might miss them and not even know they are there, without the map. do you just want to hike down the trail, or live deliberately? (as Thoreau wrote). The map and compass gets the hiker involved more. And also . . . it's FUN.
The Old Fhart
01-17-2009, 08:55
SunnyWalker-"A GPS, on a trail like I have seen on the AT is not useful unless you can get line-of-sight to the sat. This could be a problem."Not so. Any of the modern GPS receivers can maintain satellite lock outdoors under any conditions. The old GPS receivers, many with text only displays, had poor receiver sensitivity so they did lose satellites with tree cover but that is a thing of the past. My Garmin GPSMap 60CSx has never lost satellites outdoors under any conditions and with the loaded topo and street routing color maps I've loaded covering the entire east coast, and the A.T. track and shelter waypoint info from the ATC, and millions of POIs (points of interest), I only have to worry about keeping it in batteries.
Oh, my 60CSx can 'see' 6 to 9 satellites right now from inside my house and I know my position within 18 feet. YMMV
SunnyWalker
01-18-2009, 22:09
Old Fhart: Wow, that IS a change. Sorry about my wrong info. I was going by the "old" GPS I guess. I stand corrected.
Mountain Squid: I bought one of those same whistle/compass/mag glass/thermometer's today at Walmart. Like yours, no mirror or light. I like this, light. Sure is solid. Will last. Thanks. It's a lighter compass plus has the other features. Sure is all I'll need on AT.