View Full Version : Winter Section Hike - NE Area
southernpine85
10-29-2008, 15:52
Hello everyone,
I posted back in September about completing a SOBO thru hike in October 2010. In fact my original thread can still be found if you scroll down a bit in the SOBO Thru forum. Since that first thread, I've thought my plans over, researched gear, hiked more, and researched more gear. At this time I've decided to change my plans. In late 2009 and/or early 2010 (Dec/Jan), I want to hike a small portion of the "New England" section of the trail. Either the Whites (Gorham to Glencliff) or the 100 Mile Wilderness. In late 2010 and/or early 2011, I'd like to hike from Abol Bridge down to Hanover.
Right now I just want to focus on a NE winter hike in late 2009. It's my belief that a hike through the Whites will be much more challenging than the 100 Mile Wilderness. Are crampons and/or an ice axe needed for either hike? I realize that snowshoes are a must. Can anyone provide me with a conservative estimate for miles hiked per day during winter conditions for the Whites hike or 100 Mile Wilderness hike? I'm trying to figure out how long I can figure each hike to take.
I know that either of these hikes during winter conditions is not only challenging, but also very dangerous. That's why I've spent the last two months researching, talking to people, finding out where I stand physically at this point, etc. This is something that I want to do and I'm determined to do it. I do have hiking experience, "chilly" weather camping experience and a year to plan on my side.
I appreciate all advice and comments.
Thank You
Blissful
10-29-2008, 19:31
It's good to have actually been in severe winter conditions, not just chilly conditions. Sometimes research is not enough, esp in such dangeorus areas like the Whites (several died there last year). But I'll let others who have done the Whites and Maine in winter chime in.
In late 2009 and/or early 2010 (Dec/Jan), I want to hike a small portion of the "New England" section of the trail. Either the Whites (Gorham to Glencliff) or the 100 Mile Wilderness. In late 2010 and/or early 2011, I'd like to hike from Abol Bridge down to Hanover.
Right now I just want to focus on a NE winter hike in late 2009. It's my belief that a hike through the Whites will be much more challenging than the 100 Mile Wilderness. Are crampons and/or an ice axe needed for either hike? I realize that snowshoes are a must. Can anyone provide me with a conservative estimate for miles hiked per day during winter conditions for the Whites hike or 100 Mile Wilderness hike? I'm trying to figure out how long I can figure each hike to take.
So much depends on how the winter of any particular year shapes up. Without good snowfall, trails ice up so bad that crampons and ice axe are necessary in the whites, making for extremely dangerous hiking. It only takes one slip-up or fall to send you spiralling out of control into tress or worse into the abyss.
With decent snowfall of a foot or more, traction improves and you may get by with snowshoes w/crampons and poles in the whites but many hikers carry ice axes through here no matter what..(whites)
In Maine (100 mile)you could likely get by with just snowshoes and poles, again, depending on adequate snow cover for traction.
I allow myself 1 mile per hour in winter in Maine wherever i may hike., sometimes i get more and sometimes less, again, its all about the prevailing conditions so its impossible to give anything other than speculation as to what you may encounter in the future.
January can be a extremely hostile time for hiking in Maine and NH in particular with temps to -30 F or colder and winds strong enough to blow you off the mountains.
I seldom hike in the last half of January for these reasons. Can you say Cooooold.
From my experiences, I would avoid planning anything in the way of hiking after the 1st or 2nd week in January either in NH or Maine.
Snowstorms anywhere up this way(New England) can be a problem with visibility issues, trail finding, and possibly deep snow to break through (very tiring on snowshoes).
Someone else can chime in for awhile, i'm tired from thinking about it.:-?:D
If you don't have any experience winter hiking in The Whites a hike in "late 2009" might be a good idea. Most years late December winter really isn't very in full swing and can be an easy time for a first experience. Mid winter can be a different world. I would still do some networking and try to meet someone with more experience and go with them.
In the Whites from mid Fall until April its possible to experience below freezing temperatures and snow (its 32 and snowing in N. Woodstock right now). January thru early March its more likely to get the more brutal cold spells but this is when the snow can start to get deep. The biggest difficulty in long distance hiking on the NH A.T. in winter is travel over the snow. Temperatures can rise and fall from day to day but if the snow gets deep it'll stay deep, some winters until early May. Much of the A.T. goes un-hiked through the winter and breaking trail, especially alone, is exhausting.
You can research trail conditions in NH using hiker trail reports at www.viewsfromthetop.com these reports are used by many winter hikers "bagging" the 4000' peaks in NH. They'll give you an idea of conditions and what equipment hikers are using. You'll also notice mostly short sections of the A.T. are used by these winter day hikers.
from 1991 to 2001 Dan H. Allen, author or "Don't Die On The Mountain" (not about being a 2000 miler), became the first person known to section hike the entire AT in the winter months. Unfortunetly he hasn't written a book about his experience but he spoke about his hikes at the ATC biennial meeting in 2003. He said the 100 mile wilderness was his most difficult section mostly because of deep snow and the remote area. He started his project in the 100 mile wilderness with a partner who'd also hoped to complete the entire trail but after the difficulties of the Abol - Monson section he dropped the hike. Dan's partner was Guy Waterman, author (with Wife Laura) of many books on hiking and climbing. He was also noted for climbing each NH 4000'ers in winter by trail less routes from the four points of the compass. He was an incredibly accomplished all season hiker. I recommend looking up his name. Interesting life story.
I don't mean to be all negative but lots of people come up to the Whites in winter for the first time and try winter hikes and get in serious trouble. Some of them are experienced hikers. Last year two guys from Virginia came up to NH and attempted a Presidental traverse. They got into trouble when they tried to retreat from white out conditions and ended up in a remote un-hiked area (on a trail). A major search was undertaken by NH Fish and Game and local volunteer S&R organizations and they were found alive and with direction hiked out themselves.
Research is great and will help you prepare but knowledge gained through experiences is the best next step.
Here is a Mt Washington Observatory site (http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php)that you should bookmark if you haven't already to keep you abreast of current higher elevation conditions throughout the months you are considering. Its a real eye opener....
nitewalker
10-30-2008, 07:16
i suggest you train in some real winter conditions with elevation gain and loss; also try to get above treeline during some colder temps so that you can gauge your level of winter fitness. your going to need it if you try the whites without knowing what you could be instore for.. do not under estimate the whites any time of year.. brrrrr.........peace nitewalker
Homer&Marje
10-30-2008, 07:33
I've seen weather go from great to down right unbearable in the Whites....in August. And I like bad weather. The Whites are one range I know pretty well and I wouldn't go in January unless I was super prepared for it. Think, you'll be carrying a heavy pack with winter equipment, like said prior there is the possibility of heavy snow to break a trail through, Up on top of the mountains it's easy to lose the trail across the glacial rocks even in summertime on a foggy day. If it was blizzard conditions with heavy wind and lots of snow cover, it only takes a few feet off the trail to really change your situation up there.
I have never hiked the hundred mile wilderness, but previous posters have suggested it would probably be a little easier. Be prepared for -20 to -30 F. Those type of temps will kill you in hours. But seriously, if your prepared, obviously either situation is doable. Just be prepared.
bigcranky
10-30-2008, 07:53
sp,
Given that your hike is a year away, you might consider doing a January traverse of the Smokies as a training hike. It'll take a week, it's close to where you live, and there are shelters (where you are required to stay anyway.) The Smokies won't be anywhere near as hard as the Whites, but that's why it's a training hike.
Montana Mac
10-30-2008, 08:34
As previously posted breaking trail on snowshoes is exhausting work. In addition to the work you have to take into account that the deep snow will also bury the trail markings. On the open peaks in the Whites the trail is marked with cairns; it doesn’t take much to bury these. That brings up the situation of knowing if you are still on the trail and solid ground or have you veered off and are now walking on an over hanging cornice of snow – a very dangerous situation.
I have been in the Whites on snowshoes below tree line where the snow is deep enough that you are “walking on top” of the evergreens. If you break through and you snowshoe gets “trapped” by the evergreen boughs it can be a real chore to get your foot back up. This situation is aggravated more by the weight of your pack.
I won’t ever tell you not to try something, but just try to be fully prepared and leave an itinerary with someone you can depend on.
rlharris
10-30-2008, 09:00
Gorham to Glencliff will potentially take you through some of the most severe weather in North America. Mount Washington is said to have the worst weather in the world and holds the record for the highest recorded wind speed. For years, the US Army Quartermaster Corps maintained a base at its summit for testing severe winter weather gear for our soldiers.
I for one restrict my winter hiking to less hazardous trails.
Like to read (fiction)? Try to find a copy of Up Moosilauke by Jack Noon. It is a series of short stories about climbing Mount Moosilauke, some of which are set in the winter. I'm looking out at that mountain now and it is snow-capped for the third time this fall :)
Old Hillwalker
10-30-2008, 09:02
A good percentage of winter backpackers in the Whites use a type of sled called a "Pulk" to haul their gear since safe winter backpacking requires a lot more weight in gear than warm season travel. Most of these trips do not involve crossing the Presidentials on the AT, but at lower elevations to set up base camps for summit attempts. The fact that all but three huts are closed, Lonesome Lake, Carter Notch, and Zealand Falls, makes escape from the "heights" more difficult. The RMC huts (shelters) are open however. In addition to that, there is no resupply at the open huts since they are self service and only heated in the AM for breakfast making, and on occasion in the evening when it is extremly cold. Calorie consumption in the winter will be much higher than otherwise. How much I have no idea. There have been deaths over the years of backpackers who have succumbed to extreme cold even though they had very good winter bags and sufficient equipment. Several days in a tent at -30 degree weather during blizzard conditions can kill.
I used to carry an ice ax during winter hikes, but stopped after I learned how to self arrest with a hiking pole. I feel that you can't really practically carry both. I also think that one MPH is very optimistic unless you are walking already packed trails. On one recent winter hike after a 14 inch snow fall six of us made 3 miles in six hours going up to attempt the Tripyramids from the Kancamagus Highway. This was with snowshoes and constant lead switching to break trail. Every step up hill was accompanied by a backward slide back down. On the steeps we estimated that each step of forward motion was equivalent to about ten inches of actual forward progress. We never made it all the way to the first summit, giving up just before dark and turning back.
I also am of the opinion that winter backpacking without using a good winter double boot is asking for trouble. A boot that is completely frozen may be impossible to put on in the morning. If you do get your foot back in it you are in danger of severe frostbite before your feet will ever get it thawed out again.
You will need a stove that will light under sub zero conditions. Not all will, and the ones that do will tend to be heavy....(see Pulk) like my winter Optimus SVEA 123 antique.
Writing this has now got me making up my winter gear list again:rolleyes:
The OP is getting some solid advice that he requested. I wonder if he has calculated gear costs for his winter excursion yet.
Was recently figuring out the $$ cost of being a well equipped winter hiker.
I don't do alot of winter hiking, some day trips and some overnighters, but it seems i have tied up a couple grand over the years in essential equiptment for the hobby. ;)
hope this isn't too far off topic.
southernpine85
10-30-2008, 10:04
Thanks everyone for responding, I really appreciate all of the advice. I'm still looking to make the trip, but I will back out if I don't feel I'm ready for it. I will be taking two guided climbs - one to Mount Rainer and one to Mount Shuksan (Cascades) before I make the trip. That away I can test out gear in some harsh conditions and gain more experience.
I thought of using a GPS to help with navigation, but I have never used one before. Do the GPS units show complete topo maps in addition to the AT trail?
nitewalker
10-30-2008, 10:21
you can never have enough knowledge for winter backpacking/hiking/mountaineering for the reason. mother nature is less forgiving when someone makes an error during winter conditions. you may get out alive with two less toes or you may not get out at all. look what has happened to some of the best mountaineers over the las two decades or so.hall and fischer come to mind as most notable, even a few of the survivors from that tragedy died while on a mountain climbing later on in life. they were the best fit/equiped/knowlegable people of their time.
yea your not going to be on everestt but the whites are still a good challenge. all the advice that has been mentioned from above is solid. a winter climb can be one of the most rewarding experinces of a lifetime when done properly. i am still green when it comes to extreme winter backpacking but i do have a good amount of experince. just get familiar with that cold factor and make sure your fitness level is above par. a good plan with solid decision making should help tremedously..
Homer&Marje
10-30-2008, 16:07
Someone mentioned calories. This is definitely critical to a winter hike, especially in the Whites where temps can be -30 and extremely windy. The Alaskan Boy Scouts have a rating system of badges that go, 30 below badge, 40 below badge, and 50 below badge.
To get he 50 below badge you have to stay in sub -30 temps for a WEEK! That's harsh and I don't care who you are. But the main considerations they have is #1 obviously a shelter, they use self made snow caves. By piling snow some 7 ' high in a wide circular area they pack it down and then dig out the middle down to the bottom. #2 concern is calories. Before bedtime they make very chocolaty hot cocoa and add 2 tablespoons of butter to each cup for the kids, gives them about a 400 calorie boost before bed, and helping to keep warm. Little things like that can really help.
Christopher Robin
10-30-2008, 16:51
One more thing, going above tree level in the Winnter you should have one more person & idealy two foe safety.
Uncle Tom
10-31-2008, 13:44
You really need to rethink winter hiking, alone, in Maine, if you have not the experience. he snow depths in the 100 can be shocking, depending on the year. Parts of Maine already have 6" of snow on the ground. I have hiked the Bigelows , in early December, and if there is no snow there then, there is usually frozen rain, and lots of very slippery ice to deal with.
I have a serious question:
How does one gain experience in harsh winter conditions such as the whites when everyone always says don't do it until you gain experience? It seems kinda contradictory to me. Lets say I moved to NH and wanted to learn to go out in those conditions, what are you supposed to do?
Camp at a trailhead so that if your gear isn't up to the challenge of the weather then you can retreat to your car for safety - aka camp in your backyard. Once you are comfortable with your winter gear start doing short trips with all your gear - the idea here is still to have a relatively simple bailout option available. Progressively make the trips longer and the number of days out longer. Learn to pay attention to the weather and to sit tight or get out if the weather is looking like it might get bad. Learn to bail and to feel good about bailing.
Old Hillwalker
10-31-2008, 15:46
Camp at a trailhead so that if your gear isn't up to the challenge of the weather then you can retreat to your car for safety - aka camp in your backyard. Once you are comfortable with your winter gear start doing short trips with all your gear - the idea here is still to have a relatively simple bailout option available. Progressively make the trips longer and the number of days out longer. Learn to pay attention to the weather and to sit tight or get out if the weather is looking like it might get bad. Learn to bail and to feel good about bailing.
There are several National Forest Campgrounds open for winter camping since many trailheads prohibit camping in your car, or are closed and not plowed. For example, the campground at the base of the Lafayette Ridge trail access is open for winter camping even though it is closed for the season. This would be Lafayette Place Campground.
I have a serious question:
How does one gain experience in harsh winter conditions such as the whites when everyone always says don't do it until you gain experience? It seems kinda contradictory to me. Lets say I moved to NH and wanted to learn to go out in those conditions, what are you supposed to do?
Hook up with someone familiar with winter hiking and the particular area you are interested in would be a good start, you can learn much in little time going with someone who knows the ropes... when its time turn back or when its time to hunker down till conditions improve.
Its wise to hike trails you are familiar with in winter IMO, especially on exposed terrain where the trail can be difficult to follow when snow/ice covered. Even trails through the woods might be hard to follow if there is substantial snowfall and blazes are down at your ankles or covered completely by snow stuck on trees.