View Full Version : Fuel Gel, Diethylene Glycol - Your thoughts?
Todd Heyn
11-01-2008, 17:39
My brother in-law found this product, "Fuel Gel, Diethylene Glycol, Military". It is supposed to be used as a replacement for the old Trioxane bars. has anyone tried these? It appears to be sterno in a gel. What are your thoughts?
http://theepicenter.com/giffiles/products/Fuel_gel.gif
Fuel Gel, Diethylene Glycol, Military
Here is the real Military deal!
The military is now using this Diethylene Glycol fuel gel as the replacement for the old Trioxane Fuel Bars. This gel has a higher heat of combustion per unit mass and its only combustion by-products are carbon dioxide and water. When compared to Trioxane, it weighs less, burns hotter, and doesn't give off toxic gases.
Simply tear open the pouch, squeeze the contents onto the ground or onto your Esbit or Tri-Wing stove, shield from the wind and light with a match.
Place your canteen cup over the flame and in less than 8 minutes you will get boiling water!
The gel burns with a steady, blue flame of low luminosity and gives off no smoke. In fact, the clear blue flame is all but invisible in daylight.
On average you should expect to get 12-15 minutes of useable flame from a single pouch.
Three (3) pouches per box.
Fuel Gel, Diethylene Glycol (box of 3). Price $1.25, Ten (10) or more boxes for $0.99 each
Skidsteer
11-01-2008, 17:58
Antifreeze?
I dunno. I'm leery of the "doesn't give off toxic gases" part.
I wouldn't have guessed it was all that flammable, to be honest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylene_glycol#Mass_poisonings_attributed_to_DE G
The stuff is pretty toxic
Feral Bill
11-01-2008, 19:17
Ethylene glycol (antifreeze) is one alcohol. Diethylen glycol is a different alcohol, apparently a gel. Not the same thing. Neither, I'm sure, is fit to drink. Any alcohol should burn without toxic fumes. This has no bearing on their suitability as fuel.
The toxicity of this stuff is if you digest it you will likely die of kidney failure. I am not sure how much would need to get into you food or onto your toothbrush or whatever.
daddytwosticks
11-02-2008, 13:58
Cool stuff..I'm an Esbit man for short hikes. Todd Heyn, how about a short report if you get a chance to use this stuff. Thanks. :)
I'm kind curious if there is a cool way to tear it open and light it, so that the wrapper acts as a container of some kind and all the fuel eventually gets burned even what might be left inside. Maybe squeeze it all out onto an old wrapper and then open the wrapper up and coil it around the fuel like a reflector. Is it foil on the inside?
Homer&Marje
11-02-2008, 15:33
Whats that stuff that chinese restaurants use in the Pu Pu Platters. It's like a pink/ purple stuff. Always wondered if that would work, and it has to be non toxic, cause people have been cooking food with it for years.... straight on the flame too. I bet it might be cheap from some type of food distribution company.
Todd Heyn
11-02-2008, 15:46
He said that he was going to be send me a few packets. As soon as I get some, I will pass along a report.
Same stuff they use for warming food trays at banquets and such. I've made some big wick stoves with cans of the stuff they sell at food supply houses. Somewhere here in the archives is a thread showing a stove made with the stuff.
Material Safety Data Sheet (http://web.grcc.cc.mi.us/Pr/msds/hospitalityeducation/STERNO%20BRAND%20Wick%20Food%20Warming%20Fuel.pdf)
Wise Old Owl
11-02-2008, 20:52
Yes I picked them up at a mil surplus store... I tried a few packets. I didn't have enough to try cooking and two cups came to a boil fairly quickly.
Here is the thing, instead of carrying tinder and a bunch of stuff for firemaking, candles, etc. 1 pack will make a good fire in wet conditions. Throw it in the survival bag.
I experimented with various gels while playing around with alcohol stoves (before I tried Esbit - the lightest way to go in warmer weather).
None of the gelled fuels that I tried burned as hot as regular denatured alcohol, and they all left gunk on the bottom of my pots. Convient? Possibly, but I wouldn't trust it to boil water in any weather except warm, windless days.
Old Hillwalker
11-03-2008, 08:53
Whats that stuff that chinese restaurants use in the Pu Pu Platters. It's like a pink/ purple stuff. Always wondered if that would work, and it has to be non toxic, cause people have been cooking food with it for years.... straight on the flame too. I bet it might be cheap from some type of food distribution company.
Sterno maybe?
Homer&Marje
11-03-2008, 08:56
Sterno maybe?
Maybe, It sort of looks the same, but I always thought that sterno was kind of toxic... we use it on steam trays and such...they have about 5 hours of burn to them and I know people use those directly on the trail. But I was thinking of getting some of that gel and trying it in one of my alky stoves. I know a lady who owns a chinese restaurant though, I'm gonna ask her if they just dig that stuff out of sterno cans.
The name of the stove was the Zengia (think trangia:rolleyes:)
I removed the original wick and filled the entire opening with wick.
This product is liquid, not gelled like the miltary. Same stuff though.
The Zengia Stove thread (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28941&highlight=zengia)
.
Skidsteer
11-03-2008, 18:28
The name of the stove was the Zengia (think trangia:rolleyes:)
I removed the original wick and filled the entire opening with wick.
This product is liquid, not gelled like the miltary. Same stuff though.
The Zengia Stove thread (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28941&highlight=zengia)
.
Does it soot the bottom of the pot?
Does it soot the bottom of the pot?
It burns clean. The liguid needs a wick of some sort in order for it to catch fire. I wonder what the military packets have in them to make it catch.:-?
Yes I picked them up at a mil surplus store... I tried a few packets. I didn't have enough to try cooking and two cups came to a boil fairly quickly.
Here is the thing, instead of carrying tinder and a bunch of stuff for firemaking, candles, etc. 1 pack will make a good fire in wet conditions. Throw it in the survival bag.
How do you light them? Do you squeeze the gel out into a tray/dish, the foil of the package? Is there a wick of any kind? Is the stuff saturated onto a pad? Any photos available?
Thanks for your input.
trouthunter
11-07-2008, 00:15
Diethelene glycol can be used a lot more than just boiling water.
The military is also very multi purpose
trouthunter
11-07-2008, 00:37
diethylene, had to fix my spelling
Old thread but a new way to use the liquid chafing fuel used by the food service industry. The stove is of the same basic design of the Fancee Feest but modified to burn the viscous diethylene glycol (chafing fuel) The fuel is classified as combustible, don't confuse with flammable (different flash points).
It's toxic just as other fuels are so we don't want to eat/drink it ;)
Did 3 boil tests 2 cups of water in approx. 11 min. using a Toaks Light 550ml pot. Not too shabby http://bplite.com/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif Starting water temp was 70 degrees. Calm air conditions in my garage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7dn-B7ncS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_1rHsUgqs4
atraildreamer
09-08-2016, 11:38
[QUOTE=zelph;2091000]Old thread but a new way to use the liquid chafing fuel used by the food service industry. The stove is of the same basic design of the Fancee Feest but modified to burn the viscous diethylene glycol (chafing fuel) The fuel is classified as combustible, don't confuse with flammable (different flash points).
It's toxic just as other fuels are so we don't want to eat/drink it ;)
Did 3 boil tests 2 cups of water in approx. 11 min. using a Toaks Light 550ml pot. Not too shabby http://bplite.com/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif Starting water temp was 70 degrees. Calm air conditions in my garage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7dn-B7ncS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_1rHsUgqs4[/QU
I contacted one of the manufacturers of the chafing dish stuff when I was doing my stove efficiency article and they said that it was gelled methanol. They would not tell me the BTU content of the product, saying it was "proprietary information".
Testing my memory hmmmmm guestimate under 1,000 btu's per ????? I'll have to go look it up(DEG) on the net again.
This is what I use, I call it Fancee Heet ;) :
36152
Diethylene Glycol
Specific Heat @ 25°C (77°F) Btu/lb/°F
http://www.dow.com/ethyleneglycol/about/properties.htm
More info:
http://www.meglobal.biz/media/product_guides/MEGlobal_DEG.pdf
levibarry
09-08-2016, 22:42
Here is a fuel that John Abela did a write up on. It's on facebook from Aug. 18th. Along the same line
it's called Fondue Fuel - Swiss Fire Gel Bottle
You can buy it from Amazon.
Just an FYI
levibarry
Here is a fuel that John Abela did a write up on. It's on facebook from Aug. 18th. Along the same line
it's called Fondue Fuel - Swiss Fire Gel Bottle
You can buy it from Amazon.
Just an FYI
levibarry
Did Abela show a pot support for it. Googled and found these little containers of gel if you are interested in gelled alcohol:
http://www.swissmar.com/usa/gourmet/search/gmtdetail.php?id=1900 (http://www.swissmar.com/usa/gourmet/search/gmtdetail.php?id=1900)
levibarry
09-08-2016, 23:31
This is additional information from his facebook page about this Gel.
Taking a look at the Swissmar 'Swiss Fire Gel' - an extremely safe fuel for hikers! Original credit for using this in stoves goes to Jon from Flat Cat Gear, ...
YOUTUBE.COM
Levibarry
levibarry
09-08-2016, 23:36
This the link from John's page:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5W3a-tpuI0 (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv% 3DX5W3a-tpuI0&h=AAQGVq8gR)
Sounds interesting.
levibarry
This the link from John's page:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5W3a-tpuI0 (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv% 3DX5W3a-tpuI0&h=AAQGVq8gR)
Sounds interesting.
levibarry
Interesting stuff. Not allowed for air travel though or use by Boy Scouts of America.
Experiencing difficulties lighting after stove with remaining fuel have sat on table for week while humidity has been high. I suspect wick has absorbed moisture from the air and water in the fuel has been filtered out and remains in the wick.........bummer. Here is what I found on water being used to create the fuel:
Ethylene glycol is produced from ethylene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene) (ethene), via the intermediate ethylene oxide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_oxide). Ethylene oxide reacts with water (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water) to produce ethylene glycol according to the chemical equation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_equation):
C2H4 + 2H2O → HO–CH2CH2–OH