View Full Version : National Parks ease ban on guns
Silver Bear
12-05-2008, 17:53
This is an AP story:
New regulation eases ban on guns in national parks
By MATTHEW DALY – 1 hour ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — People will now be able to carry concealed weapons in some national parks and wildlife refuges.
The new Interior Department rules allow an individual to carry a loaded weapon in a park or wildlife refuge — but only if the person has a permit for a concealed weapon. The state where the park or refuge is located must also allow guns in parks.
The rule overturns a 25-year-old regulation that has restricted loaded guns in parks and wildlife refuges. The previous regulations required that guns be unloaded and placed somewhere that is not easily accessible, such as in a car trunk.
taildragger
12-05-2008, 18:13
This is an AP story:
New regulation eases ban on guns in national parks
By MATTHEW DALY – 1 hour ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — People will now be able to carry concealed weapons in some national parks and wildlife refuges.
The new Interior Department rules allow an individual to carry a loaded weapon in a park or wildlife refuge — but only if the person has a permit for a concealed weapon. The state where the park or refuge is located must also allow guns in parks.
The rule overturns a 25-year-old regulation that has restricted loaded guns in parks and wildlife refuges. The previous regulations required that guns be unloaded and placed somewhere that is not easily accessible, such as in a car trunk.
:banana:banana:banana:banana:banana
CaptChaos
12-05-2008, 18:38
Well, IMO, it's about damm time.
I have talked with police officers here around the Bowling Green, KY area and they have told me that there is no way that they would hike or camp alone in Mammoth Cave National Park without their gun.
It has always been a joke when even the state considers a gun to be a small charge and a small fine. Now that we have the new carry laws the only place we could not carry was in the National Park. I hope they make the change.
As for the AT, some do not like the idea of guns but I grew up with them and know how to use them so it is not an issue. I have said for years that it is a shame that you go to hike or camp in a National Park and you have to let yourself become a victim because you become a law breaker if you carry your gun.
My say on the matter.
john
skinewmexico
12-05-2008, 19:07
Cool. The area around Big Bend is pretty scary.
take-a-knee
12-05-2008, 19:09
Cool. The area around Big Bend is pretty scary.
I can only imagine!
JumpInTheLake
12-05-2008, 20:29
This needed to happen. I've always wondered why I can't carry in a park, just because of a property line.
I agree - about damn time.
Rangers can carry them, I guess citizens should be able to too..
oldfivetango
12-05-2008, 20:46
Well, IMO, it's about damm time.
I have talked with police officers here around the Bowling Green, KY area and they have told me that there is no way that they would hike or camp alone in Mammoth Cave National Park without their gun.
It has always been a joke when even the state considers a gun to be a small charge and a small fine. Now that we have the new carry laws the only place we could not carry was in the National Park. I hope they make the change.
As for the AT, some do not like the idea of guns but I grew up with them and know how to use them so it is not an issue. I have said for years that it is a shame that you go to hike or camp in a National Park and you have to let yourself become a victim because you become a law breaker if you carry your gun.
My say on the matter.
john
What do they expect to need protection from-humans or wildlife?
Just curious.
Oldfivetango
What do they expect to need protection from-humans or wildlife?
Just curious.
Oldfivetango
Boogie men.
troglobil
12-05-2008, 21:12
What do they expect to need protection from-humans or wildlife?
Just curious.
Oldfivetango
oztotl http://www.cavetexas.org/mexico/oztotl.html
taildragger
12-05-2008, 21:41
Boogie men.
or chupacabras
http://www.paranormal-phenomenon.net/chupacabra-2.png
Wildlife doesn't bother me, I don't think that I'm gonna get shanked, I just think that I have the right to carry a gun there.
As for the AT, some do not like the idea of guns but I grew up with them and know how to use them so it is not an issue. N o, guys like you are not the issue. And I agree that it doesn't make sense about NPs and no guns and no dogs. People don't bring their pistols and pet pooch on NP land to hunt.
As far as the AT goes, it isn't guys like you at all, but you are an excpetion, I'm afraid. Some of the people I know who carry I can tell when they are or not because the behave differently. Their personality changes, and these are the folks who worry me.
What do they expect to need protection from-humans or wildlife?
Just curious.
Oldfivetango
Humans.
Here is a recent story from the AJC:http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2008/12/05/georgia_parks_guns.html
This seems to be a reasonable change in policy. Having said that, obtaining a concealed weapons permit is not the same as simply owning a firearm. Folks should take the time to fully understand what this change means in regards to a State's National Park or Refuge. There are quite a few questions to be addressed in regards to this policy change.
buckwheat
12-05-2008, 23:30
Don't get too excited folks. While the Bush Administration is pushing this new rule through last minute, expect the next administration to dial it back as soon as they can.
/ranton
Barack Obama was on the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation for four years. The Joyce Foundation is one of the largest funding organizations for gun control advocacy groups dedicated to limiting your 2nd amendment rights.
You have the right to bear arms. Says so right there in the Constitution. And nowhere does it say you have to give up that right to enter a wilderness area that we, the people, own.
/rantoff
skinewmexico
12-05-2008, 23:56
Chupacabras are scary.
Let's stick to the existing info and available articles for our comments. Thanks.
The Mechanical Man
12-06-2008, 00:16
It's this guy we really have to watch out for, up here in the mid-atlantic states, ...................I hear he comes over to PA's NPS lands on the weekends. :rolleyes:
freefall
12-06-2008, 00:49
His gun control seems to be that he wishes the states to have more control than the Feds (He voted present on IL gun laws.) At first I shuddered at this but then I remembered I live in Colorado and they still think this is still the wild west. While this could be a problem in some areas, most of the country will be ok. The states will give control to local government with a say-so (because I said so) clause preventing problems in rural areas.
Don't get too excited folks. While the Bush Administration is pushing this new rule through last minute, expect the next administration to dial it back as soon as they can.
/ranton
Barack Obama was on the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation for four years. The Joyce Foundation is one of the largest funding organizations for gun control advocacy groups dedicated to limiting your 2nd amendment rights.
You have the right to bear arms. Says so right there in the Constitution. And nowhere does it say you have to give up that right to enter a wilderness area that we, the people, own.
/rantoff
The Mechanical Man
12-06-2008, 01:09
Let's stick to the existing info and available articles for our comments. Thanks.
Sorry about that last post ED, I guess I should have said................
AT maintainers that are allowed to use a chainsaw on NPS lands, are required to attend a full weekend course on how to safely use a chainsaw, including CPR to recieve a full certification.
The only person in danger is the chainsaw operator, and anyone within 6 feet.
To be allowed to carry a hidden gun on NPS lands with a legal permit, shouldn't you should also have to pass through a similar ATC handgun safety clinic, and a CPR course too?
After all, the gun is actually dangerous to everyone HIKING within shooting distance, ..... the gun is much more dangerous than a chainsaw. :-?
And,........... if anyone does use their weapon on NPS lands, I hope they shoot straight, and we don't have too many "WOUNDINGS" in self defense. :eek:
Nearly Normal
12-06-2008, 06:49
I operate a chainsaw and cut 6 or 8 pickup loads of firewood every year.
Never took a class. Never felt in danger.
Been hunting and shooting for 40 years. Never took a class. Never felt in danger.
I will concede there are folks that can't walk and chew gum.
They are shunned while performing these activities.
So are the fraidy cats.
buckwheat
12-06-2008, 07:09
... on NPS lands ...
We pay employees of the National Park Service to administer our parks for us. They do not own this land. They are not "NPS lands." The land belongs to us and the National Park Service works for us.
I think that's an important fact that people casually forget.
I also think that, lost in the conversation is that in many wilderness areas, you are at significant risk of loss of your life from wild animal attack. Not to mention that the only killings on the Appalachian Trail that I can find evidence of are hiker-victims hunted by nutjobs. These psychopaths aren't versed in NPS concealed carry rules and regulations, but they sure seem to know a target-rich government-disarmed environment when they see one.
http://www.barryyeoman.com/articles/murderonmountain.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/us/14hiker.html
http://www.aldha.org/arrest02.htm
Don't be a victim.
I think most of the killings on the AT where on lands where guns were already allowed. I also think you have a better chance of hitting the lottery than actually needing a gun on the AT. Conventional backpacking wisdom is, if you don't use it in a weeks time, you don't need it.
Lone Wolf
12-06-2008, 07:37
I also think you have a better chance of hitting the lottery than actually needing a gun on the AT. Conventional backpacking wisdom is, if you don't use it in a weeks time, you don't need it.
same for water filters and bear bags.
JumpInTheLake
12-06-2008, 09:52
For me the issue is "the right" to carry. The anti gunners will go to extremes to take our guns, so we need to demand extreme carry rights to neutralize the fraidy cat wack jobs. Who by the way usually seem to have a lot more time available to get their legislation enacted while we're out working and raising kids.
_terrapin_
12-06-2008, 10:08
For me the issue is "the right" to carry. The anti gunners will go to extremes to take our guns, so we need to demand extreme carry rights to neutralize the fraidy cat wack jobs. Who by the way usually seem to have a lot more time available to get their legislation enacted while we're out working and raising kids.
All-out culture warfare, in a nutshell. Us v. Them. Good v. Evil. Black v. White. Poor, oppressed gun owners!
Homer&Marje
12-06-2008, 10:17
For me the issue is "the right" to carry. The anti gunners will go to extremes to take our guns, so we need to demand extreme carry rights to neutralize the fraidy cat wack jobs. Who by the way usually seem to have a lot more time available to get their legislation enacted while we're out working and raising kids.
Fraidy cat wack jobs? Thats what I call anyone who hikes with a gun. Buck up, be a man. Someone attacks you kick the crap out of them. Take a self defense course you'll learn how to immobilize someone in 20 seconds. Punch someone in the pelvic bone with 300 lbs of force (not much, even a 100 lb woman can punch with that much force) and they will collapse with a broken pelvis. Then stand over them and pinch their corotid arteries until they pass out and wait for the rangers to arrive.
And if you don't shoot them you can tie them up and let them beg to be let go, now isn't that better for everyone involved:D
Don't get too excited folks. While the Bush Administration is pushing this new rule through last minute, expect the next administration to dial it back as soon as they can.
/ranton
Barack Obama was on the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation for four years. The Joyce Foundation is one of the largest funding organizations for gun control advocacy groups dedicated to limiting your 2nd amendment rights.
You have the right to bear arms. Says so right there in the Constitution. And nowhere does it say you have to give up that right to enter a wilderness area that we, the people, own.
/rantoff
The constitution states the right to bear arms, mind you it was drafted in the 1700's because we lived in an unmilitarized country and the right to bear arms was in order that we be able to form a militia whilst under attack from an invading country. Gun advocacy goups are not limiting second amendment rights they are trying to get it back to what it was originally drafted as.
Your giving us holes a bad name. You'd have more use for that gun at home in Billerica living near the House of Corrections than you would in the woods.
Bulldawg
12-06-2008, 10:18
All-out culture warfare, in a nutshell. Us v. Them. Good v. Evil. Black v. White. Poor, oppressed gun owners!
I am a Gun owner and am in no way oppressed. I carry my pistol, I carry my sidearm; legally. You may see me and never know that a pistol is on my ankle, or in my cargo pocket, or in my pack. That is for me to know, and for to hopefully never find out, for your sake. But cross me out in the woods or down in town, threaten my family bodily harm or myself with harm to my person and you will find out very soon what 4 to 5 placed center mass at close range is like. Not very charming I hear. Oppressed gun owners, I doubt it; chicken **** anti gunners whom will the first ones raped and pillaged by the law breakers who keep them guns after the government round ups occur. The same chicken **** anti-gunners who will want people who kept their guns to protect them from the big bad boogy man.
Homer&Marje
12-06-2008, 10:29
I am a Gun owner and am in no way oppressed. I carry my pistol, I carry my sidearm; legally. You may see me and never know that a pistol is on my ankle, or in my cargo pocket, or in my pack. That is for me to know, and for to hopefully never find out, for your sake. But cross me out in the woods or down in town, threaten my family bodily harm or myself with harm to my person and you will find out very soon what 4 to 5 placed center mass at close range is like. Not very charming I hear. Oppressed gun owners, I doubt it; chicken **** anti gunners whom will the first ones raped and pillaged by the law breakers who keep them guns after the government round ups occur. The same chicken **** anti-gunners who will want people who kept their guns to protect them from the big bad boogy man.
That's funny. Chicken **** anti-gunners. Do you realize what your doing to the southern stereotype right now? I've never been raped or pillaged and I live in an area that's probably 1000% more likely for me to be attacked in one way or another.
My mother was raped twice. She's anti gun. She also is a blue belt in Shaoulin Kempo Karate and if anyone ever tried again they'd be in a serious world of hurt from a little 5' tall woman.
And if the government ever melts down...just for reference and starts attacking the "People" of the United States is one of the main staples of the second amendment to protect the people against an unlawful military uprising from the government.
IT WAS ALSO DRAFTED IN THE 1700'S WHEN OUR COUNTRY WAS UNSTABLE AND WE DID NOT HAVE 200 + YEARS OF HISTORY.
oldfivetango
12-06-2008, 10:32
Fraidy cat wack jobs? Thats what I call anyone who hikes with a gun. Buck up, be a man. Someone attacks you kick the crap out of them. Take a self defense course you'll learn how to immobilize someone in 20 seconds. Punch someone in the pelvic bone with 300 lbs of force (not much, even a 100 lb woman can punch with that much force) and they will collapse with a broken pelvis. Then stand over them and pinch their corotid arteries until they pass out and wait for the rangers to arrive.
And if you don't shoot them you can tie them up and let them beg to be let go, now isn't that better for everyone involved:D
The constitution states the right to bear arms, mind you it was drafted in the 1700's because we lived in an unmilitarized country and the right to bear arms was in order that we be able to form a militia whilst under attack from an invading country. Gun advocacy goups are not limiting second amendment rights they are trying to get it back to what it was originally drafted as.
Your giving us holes a bad name. You'd have more use for that gun at home in Billerica living near the House of Corrections than you would in the woods.
Hey Homer,
We agree on some things and do not on some others.
For instance,if I had a chance between betting on a punk or
a psycho with even a small caliber pistol vs the most macho
whupass karate kid you can come up with-well I reckon I would
not be betting on the karate kid.:D
And I interpret the constitution for what it says,"the right of the people
to keep and BEAR arms,shall not be infringed."
And I can't help but wonder how long it would take our lovely wonderful
government to come and take the rest of my money after they take my
firearms.But I am sure it would be for a greater good............
Oldfivetango
Homer&Marje
12-06-2008, 10:40
Hey Homer,
We agree on some things and do not on some others.
For instance,if I had a chance between betting on a punk or
a psycho with even a small caliber pistol vs the most macho
whupass karate kid you can come up with-well I reckon I would
not be betting on the karate kid.:D
And I interpret the constitution for what it says,"the right of the people
to keep and BEAR arms,shall not be infringed."
And I can't help but wonder how long it would take our lovely wonderful
government to come and take the rest of my money after they take my
firearms.But I am sure it would be for a greater good............
Oldfivetango
Tango, you've never taken any Krav Maga training. Israeli hand combat meant to disarm and disable. Again, I have never been confronted in the woods by a "Psycho". And if I was I would still take my hands, feet, and my buck knife over a gun anyday.
Most people don't try to "attack" someone from far away. Unless the initial intent is to kill, in which you probably won't see it coming anyways, most attacks occur within 5 ft of your person. A little training and you can disarm that "Psycho" that mind you, is now LEGALLY carrying his/her gun in YOUR national park. If he or she gets a half decent scumbag lawyer all of a sudden, you could be the attacker and them the victim.
oldfivetango
12-06-2008, 10:57
Ok,I we are 5 feet apart and I have a firearm drawn on you with
intent to kill-chances are you would be shot before any "bs" conversation
starts or any threats are exchanged.
Nut jobs are not going to play fair,Homer,they are going to have the
weapon drawn and cocked when they demand your money or your life
etc.I'm still betting that just about and punk can flex his finger faster
than you will cover the five feet.
Sure,if he doesn't get a good "hit" on you in the first shot or two you can
have enought time to break his neck and watch him die before you bleed
to death.
That is why Massad Ayub advocates caring a "punk wallet" to give away
to the first punk that wants it;thereby avoiding escalation of violence and
the use of deadly force.
And,btw,what makes you think I don't have any martial arts training?
Oldfivetango
If folks want to comment on the original topic and news articles cited afterwords, feel free to do so. This is not the place to argue anything else. I was not around earlier today and other folks had to step in to keep control here. I don't wan't to inconvenience other moderators like that. There is valuable info that can come from this conversation. Lets keep it civil and on topic.
Sorry about that last post ED, I guess I should have said................
AT maintainers that are allowed to use a chainsaw on NPS lands, are required to attend a full weekend course on how to safely use a chainsaw, including CPR to recieve a full certification.
The only person in danger is the chainsaw operator, and anyone within 6 feet.
To be allowed to carry a hidden gun on NPS lands with a legal permit, shouldn't you should also have to pass through a similar ATC handgun safety clinic, and a CPR course too?
After all, the gun is actually dangerous to everyone HIKING within shooting distance, ..... the gun is much more dangerous than a chainsaw. :-?
And,........... if anyone does use their weapon on NPS lands, I hope they shoot straight, and we don't have too many "WOUNDINGS" in self defense. :eek:Seems as though I read that folks would need carry/concealed permit to carry legally in any state's NPS lands. That is not an easy hurdle to cross. As I said in an earlier post, there are many unanswered questions here and folks need to get the correct advice and interpretations of this before assuming anything.
Look folks, I haven't had the time or inclination to look through this thread and edit out the extraneous content. I have said it before and I will ask again......Please limit your comments to the original news story and the implications.
JumpInTheLake
12-06-2008, 22:48
Does any one have knowledge of Tennessee, Georgia and North Carolina laws? I wonder if they have restrictions on the books.
Bulldawg
12-06-2008, 22:53
Ed, if you 're gonna leave some of these comments from the left side of this debate and then delete the others, you are better off simply closing the thread!!
Ed, if you 're gonna leave some of these comments from the left side of this debate and then delete the others, you are better off simply closing the thread!!In the interest of letting folks respond to and discuss the original topic here, I re-opened the thread. I might have time to weed out the stuff posted earlier at some point, but I already stated this :
Look folks, I haven't had the time or inclination to look through this thread and edit out the extraneous content.
Bulldawg
12-06-2008, 23:01
In the interest of letting folks respond to and discuss the original topic here, I re-opened the thread. I might have time to weed out the stuff posted earlier at some point, but I already stated this :
I think you should close it then, weed out the stuff, then open back up. Personally though, you are bringing a lot of heartache on yourself. I'd leave it closed if it was up to me!!
The Mechanical Man
12-06-2008, 23:04
What does it cost $$, to obtain a concealed weapon permit?
Are all states the same, and do they include a weekend long training program with CPR too? :-?
Bulldawg
12-06-2008, 23:06
Georgia costs around $70 combined for everything I think. It also takes almost 6 to 8 months to come back.
And what does CPR have to do with having a CCW?
What does it cost $$, to obtain a concealed weapon permit?
Are all states the same, and do they include a weekend long training program with CPR too? :-?I'm certain that all states are not the same. This goes back to my statement that folks should be careful to understand the implications of this rule change in regards to each individual state. This is a new development and the articles posted here are just a general overview of this. The specifics will need to be researched.
Good intentions pave the way to hell.