View Full Version : a good reason to wear blaze orange
http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20081214/NEWS/812130279/1151?Title=Man_found_dead_following__tragic_accide nt_
Thats sad. When I lived in Tennessee there was a teenager at our church that was shot and killed during bow season with a bow and arrow. You dont have to wear orange when you are bow hunting but it is a good idea. There are alot of hunters that shoot first and then look after. Any time I go into the woods during hunting season I always wear orange safer than sorry. I wonder if the person who shoot the guy had to go to a hunters safety coarse before he could get a license. I know thats what you have to do here in Colorado.
StubbleJumper
12-14-2008, 18:45
I'm guessing that they probably can't give "the chair" to the shooter for criminal negligence causing death? Too bad all around.
Reminds me of a teenager shot on the AT in north Georgia a few years ago by a hunter. I think the hunter saw her bum and shot away. OOPS. I think she lived.
modiyooch
12-14-2008, 19:15
On Thanksgiving we were trail running and off the normal path. I thought it was very irresponsible of us and was fearful. Just as idiotic as when we hiked up Wildcat in a thunder and lightning storm this Aug.
e-doc thats called a million dollar wound. But the government must keep that money because the girl didnt see one cent of that money.
She musy have needed some sun on the buns - too white, hehe
Unfortunately much like a drivers licence you don't need to have any common sense to get a hunting licence.
Thanks for posting that link. A very sad story.
This weekend I was hiking a few miles away, in the Fletcher Creek area. I, and all of my friends, were wearing blaze orange.
I wear a reversible hat like this one & a red mesh safety vest during hunting season. Hike with my headlamp on at dawn & dusk. Any hunter shooting me deserves a life sentence
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0005301942703a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntt=orange+hat&Ntk=Products&sort=all&Go.y=9&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&_D%3Asort=+&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form1&Go.x=22&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1
http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/110957_lg.jpg
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=29534&c=
This popped up on the home page and I was startled at the difference in how they drew my eye. Don't know if it is just my eye, or not.
Midway Sam
12-15-2008, 10:22
Etowah Outfitters makes a blaze orange silnylon pack cover. I always wear mine during hunting season.
http://www.etowahoutfittersultralightbackpackinggear.com/raingear.html
Etowah Outfitters makes a blaze orange silnylon pack cover. I always wear mine during hunting season.
http://www.etowahoutfittersultralightbackpackinggear.com/raingear.html
I just bought one of these. I knew it would be a good idea...
sheepdog
12-15-2008, 12:16
I'm guessing that they probably can't give "the chair" to the shooter for criminal negligence causing death? Too bad all around.
You wanna give the kid "the chair"? Would you do the same for a kid speeding in a car and causing the loss of a life?
taildragger
12-15-2008, 12:52
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=29534&c=
This popped up on the home page and I was startled at the difference in how they drew my eye. Don't know if it is just my eye, or not.
Thats the whole reason behind it. I can usually pick out hunters on the prairie for nearly a mile or so due to that orange.
That kid is going to have to live out the rest of his life knowing that he took another life. Thats gonna be a kick in the pants....
Cabin Fever
12-15-2008, 17:10
You can't beat the "Don't Shoot I am a hiker" vest that ATC sells. I feel sorry for this kid. He was probably trying to shoot the big one and instead shot a hiker (or so we think). Now, he has a life on his hands. Granted, it was a tragic mistake, but not all of the blame should go on him.
Nearly Normal
12-15-2008, 17:57
You can't beat the "Don't Shoot I am a hiker" vest that ATC sells. I feel sorry for this kid. He was probably trying to shoot the big one and instead shot a hiker (or so we think). Now, he has a life on his hands. Granted, it was a tragic mistake, but not all of the blame should go on him.
Why Not?
taildragger
12-15-2008, 18:05
You can't beat the "Don't Shoot I am a hiker" vest that ATC sells. I feel sorry for this kid. He was probably trying to shoot the big one and instead shot a hiker (or so we think). Now, he has a life on his hands. Granted, it was a tragic mistake, but not all of the blame should go on him.
Why Not?
True, the kid goofed big time, should probably get negligent manslaughter for this.
Cabin Fever
12-15-2008, 18:09
Why Not?
Because the victim did not have any orange on in a national forest - prime hunting land. Don't get me wrong. It was a terrible mistake.
Cabin Fever
12-15-2008, 18:10
True, the kid goofed big time, should probably get negligent manslaughter for this.
There are a lot of historical examples of this. They will follow those examples.
StubbleJumper
12-15-2008, 18:16
You wanna give the kid "the chair"? Would you do the same for a kid speeding in a car and causing the loss of a life?
Yep. Guns are pretty much designed with one purpose in mind...to kill or maim something/someone. With that context in mind, it behooves all gun users to take extraordinary care to ensure that their target is in fact something that they absolutely want to shoot. Failing to double-check and triple-check your target can result in the death of something/someone with virtual certainty.
A car is designed to get you from point A to point B. Deaths do occur from collisions, but it's not exactly the same direct causal linkage as pulling the trigger on a firearm. I'm also in favour of very serious penalties, including prison, for fatal collisions caused by gross negligence.:(:(:(
drastic_quench
12-15-2008, 18:17
http://www.cabelas.com/link-12/product/0015826510610a.shtml
Nearly Normal
12-15-2008, 18:27
Because the victim did not have any orange on in a national forest - prime hunting land. Don't get me wrong. It was a terrible mistake.
Both sound like idiots.
jersey joe
12-15-2008, 18:36
Why don't more companies make/sell backpacks and clothes that are bright orange? It seems like the majority of packs and hiking clothing are earth tones.
While I was hiking yesterday, about halfway through our hike, we passed through a tunnel under the Blue Ridge Parkway. There was a big, orange sign stating giving the dates of hunting season. The thing was, we were pretty much in the middle of the National Forest. The access road I had driven in on, the car campsites we had driven past, the trailhead we parked at...none of these had big, orange signs. I had been hiking for hours, and had already spent the night, in the NF without seeing a sign. Of course, I knew it was hunting season because I had looked up the dates online beforehand. The victim was a Latino guy--do you think he knew to go online to the NC DNR website?
I was somewhat bemused at the placement of the sign. That was before I read about the shooting death.
jersey joe
12-15-2008, 18:46
The victim was a Latino guy--do you think he knew to go online to the NC DNR website?
Marta, I think latino guys know how to use the internet.
Jack Tarlin
12-15-2008, 18:50
I see that this thread's called "A Good Reason to Wear Blaze Orange."
Well, how's this:
One wears blaze orange in the woods or backcountry during hunting season because despite what some folks imagine, hikers and backpackers aren't the only folks out there, and the prudent walker wants to enjoy his trip without getting shot.
Pretty simple, no?
Wear the orange.
That is correct Mr. Jack Tarlin. If you even think its hunting season put the orange on, or a least something that is a bright color. I feel sorry for the kid and the family of the guy who got shoot both familes have lost. Hey I know this is terrible but Mills Creek is an AWESOME place to flyfish. The last time I was there I got a grandslam. That place is stacked with trout.
bigboots
12-15-2008, 19:17
To get off the topic of trout...I make it a rule that I don't go out during the 1 week of gun season in OH and PA. I get to take advantage of the area all year long, they can have 1 week with 1 fewer disturbance. I do hike during bow season and wear lots of orange.
Talking with a coworker who hunts, he said that many hikers get extremely mad when other people (hikers and other hunters) go by their "area". (Mad enough to shoot someone??? I hope not.) I think that everyone needs to be informed before going outside. If hikers know when gun season is and hunters know where major hiking trails are there would be fewer problems.
bigboots
12-15-2008, 19:18
Sorry I ment many HUNTERS get extremely mad
Marta, I think latino guys know how to use the internet.
I work with about 50 Latino guys. Some of them use the internet; many not. I think about 25% of my coworkers have internet at home. (Some of them use the office computers to receive email from their family back in Mexico, which is how I know that they don't have internet access at home.) A few of them use their cell phones as modems and for web access. Many Latino immigrants--but certainly not all--have not had the benefit of much formal education and are essentially illiterate.
Beyond the internet/no internet question, I have observed that many of my Latino coworkers, who live in a mostly Spanish-language environment, are pretty disconnected from the Anglo world. (Once again, not all of them, but a substantial number of them.) They are often unaware of things going on around them, unless those things are picked up by the Spanish-language radio stations and press. I'm talking about things like citywide water use restrictions, and other mundane matters.
(I'm not blaming these guys for being out of the loop. I have been on the other side of this situation--living in Russia and Italy, with a marginal grasp of the languages--so I know what it's like.)
Even as an English-speaker who reads the local paper and listens to local radio, I would not have been aware that it was hunting season except that I thought it might be so I looked it up online. (I live in the city of Charlotte--I don't think there are any hunting seasons in the city, so it doesn't come up much on the news.) It's easy for me to imagine that the victim did not do the research. Even as I was driving into the Pisgah NF, the information would have escaped my notice. The one big, orange sign that was sort of in the middle of the NF was the only sign I saw.
Many companies, like Golite and Sea-to-Summit make pack covers in bright orange. They're worth the money if you hike during hunting season.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/5/0/2/5/BPHobbs.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=20882&original=1&c=member&orderby=title&direction=ASC&imageuser=5025&cutoffdate=-1)
sheepdog
12-15-2008, 20:50
Yep. Guns are pretty much designed with one purpose in mind...to kill or maim something/someone. With that context in mind, it behooves all gun users to take extraordinary care to ensure that their target is in fact something that they absolutely want to shoot. Failing to double-check and triple-check your target can result in the death of something/someone with virtual certainty.
A car is designed to get you from point A to point B. Deaths do occur from collisions, but it's not exactly the same direct causal linkage as pulling the trigger on a firearm. I'm also in favour of very serious penalties, including prison, for fatal collisions caused by gross negligence.:(:(:(
So the best way to handle people who kill people accidently, is to kill them on purpose. Sweet.
joshua5878
12-15-2008, 21:23
I hunt, I don't shoot unless I see a deer. End of story. Accidents like this are preventable, with responsibility. God bless the deceased and his family. It did not have to happen.
rainmaker
12-15-2008, 22:15
Why don't more companies make/sell backpacks and clothes that are bright orange? It seems like the majority of packs and hiking clothing are earth tones.
Madame and I bought and use bright orange raincovers anytime we are hiking during hunting season.
Very sad. This fall, the only people we saw wearing blaze orange were the hunters and us middle aged hikers. Alot of the kids just don't know any better. Then I remembered my first fall hike, my jacket was the color of a doe. Jeez.
Rain Man
12-16-2008, 00:47
So the best way to handle people who kill people accidently, is to kill them on purpose. Sweet.
Sorry, Sheepdog, but you are barking up the wrong tree.
That trigger was not pulled "accidentally,", but on purpose with the intent to kill.
Reminds me of those who want vengeance on "three strikes" perps, even when the third strike is some puny little crime. Here, the crime was pretty severe, AND perpetrated with a gun, which nowadays elevates the punishment automatically.
So, let's compromise. No death penalty for "accidentally" pulling the trigger intending to kill, let's just say 25 years with no parole for such crimes.
If a criminal goes to jail for life by stealing a set of golf clubs, I can't see why a killer who used a gun should get off lightly.
Rain Man
Plodderman
12-16-2008, 08:52
All the more reason to stay out of lands that can be used for hunting during gun season. I am a hunter and a hiker and I have seen to many people who shoot and then aim. Tragic accident and in these kinds of things everyone loses.
sheepdog
12-16-2008, 09:49
Sorry, Sheepdog, but you are barking up the wrong tree.
That trigger was not pulled "accidentally,", but on purpose with the intent to kill.
Reminds me of those who want vengeance on "three strikes" perps, even when the third strike is some puny little crime. Here, the crime was pretty severe, AND perpetrated with a gun, which nowadays elevates the punishment automatically.
So, let's compromise. No death penalty for "accidentally" pulling the trigger intending to kill, let's just say 25 years with no parole for such crimes.
If a criminal goes to jail for life by stealing a set of golf clubs, I can't see why a killer who used a gun should get off lightly.
Rain Man
I've worked in prisons for nearly 30 years. Saw many people get around 7-15 years for killing somone on purpose. You guys want to give a kid 25 years (or the chair) for an accident?
You don't even know the circumstaces of the incident. Maybe he was negligent, maybe not, but you guys are something.
I can't help but wonder when I'm walking in hunting territory if a hunter spots me wearing my Orange, sets me in his sights, puts some pressure on the trigger and gets his jollies off knowing he can kill me but he simply chooses not to.
sheepdog
12-16-2008, 10:28
I can't help but wonder when I'm walking in hunting territory if a hunter spots me wearing my Orange, sets me in his sights, puts some pressure on the trigger and gets his jollies off knowing he can kill me but he simply chooses not to.
A safe hunter will never point his gun at another person. A gun is just a tool. Do you ever walk down the street with a hammer and get your jollies thinking, I bet I could kill thirty people with this hammer before someone stops me. No you don't. It's the same thing.
A safe hunter will never point his gun at another person. A gun is just a tool. Do you ever walk down the street with a hammer and get your jollies thinking, I bet I could kill thirty people with this hammer before someone stops me. No you don't. It's the same thing.
In general I agree. Downtown streets of Bangor, ME? Keep an eye out for hammers.
taildragger
12-16-2008, 12:11
Sorry, Sheepdog, but you are barking up the wrong tree.
That trigger was not pulled "accidentally,", but on purpose with the intent to kill.
Etc....
Rain Man
The intent was not to kill a person, thats where the accident comes into play. Its negligent manslaughter and he should be charged, end of story.
I think I might have scared a few folks when I went mountain bike riding in a local park with my blaze orange helmet cover on (and my neon green commuting vest as well). They must've been thinking ("Gee - I didn't know that they allowed hunting in this park." - [they don't] :))
I put the cover on at the beginning of hunting season and leave it on wherever I ride until the season is over.
Be careful out there. There are a lot of guys who are excited at the prospect of bringing some game home - sometimes too excited. Add inexperience, as seems to be the case here, and youth (not all inexperience hunters are young, and not all young hunters are inexperienced), and very bad things can happen. Do your part to stay alive and, I might add, not freak out the hunters (it must be a real hair-raising thing to draw a careful bead on something, then realize it's a human being!).
sheepdog
12-16-2008, 14:19
The intent was not to kill a person, thats where the accident comes into play. Its negligent manslaughter and he should be charged, end of story.
Ahhh, common sense rears its ugly head. Let's have none of that!!!
Well there are accidents and then there are accidents. I always told my kids: If you put your brother's eye out, telling me "It was an accident" will not be an acceptable excuse. I would class "accidents" in which a motorist hits a cyclist or pedestrian, or a hunter shoots a person, to be in that category, too. It might not have been intentional, but the results are so serious that punishment is necessary.
taildragger
12-16-2008, 14:47
Well there are accidents and then there are accidents. I always told my kids: If you put your brother's eye out, telling me "It was an accident" will not be an acceptable excuse. I would class "accidents" in which a motorist hits a cyclist or pedestrian, or a hunter shoots a person, to be in that category, too. It might not have been intentional, but the results are so serious that punishment is necessary.
Hrmm, I'd put a depends there. Say, in this case, that the kid was actually shooting at a verified deer. He looks into the scope, and there is a branch that he cannot resolve due to the nature of optics. The branch changes the course of the bullet and it strikes a man that could not have been seen. Now, if the deer had a proper backstop (ie he wasn't shooting uphill w/o something to stop the bullet) I don't think he should be charged because that was a freak accident, no "justice" would be served by sentencing the shooter, only vengence would get served.
Now, the above is highly unlikely. In a case earlier this year (Sauk Mt in WA) I believe the two kids were being charged with negligent homicide since the case for legal murder was much harder to make, and would be harder to stick. Negligent homicide isn't too hard to prove in a case like this, its just a matter of the jury then.
sheepdog
12-16-2008, 14:56
There are always mitigating and/or agrivating circumstances. It would be good to let the authorities sort it out. Sometimes a shooting could be an accident, other times it could be negligence. It's all tragic.
Do you ever walk down the street with a hammer and get your jollies thinking, I bet I could kill thirty people with this hammer before someone stops me. No you don't.
He don't know me very well, do he? :D
I also think you're giving hunters too much credit. I know some insane hunters who pack heat.
sheepdog
12-16-2008, 20:13
I also think you're giving hunters too much credit. I know some insane hunters who pack heat.
Hunters are just like every other group of people. Good and bad.
While we were hiking in the Pisgah on Saturday, we ran into a group of three hunters who were getting around on mountain bikes. I hadn't seen that before.
Skidsteer
12-16-2008, 20:48
I also think you're giving hunters too much credit. I know some insane hunters who pack heat.
I don't know any hunters that don't pack heat.
Bowhunters, I suppose.
take-a-knee
12-16-2008, 21:02
A safe hunter will never point his gun at another person. A gun is just a tool. Do you ever walk down the street with a hammer and get your jollies thinking, I bet I could kill thirty people with this hammer before someone stops me. No you don't. It's the same thing.
Some people do Sheep, they attribute "life force" to inanimate objects ( firearms ) this is essentially animism. Animism is the most primitive of all religious belief systems
Nearly Normal
12-29-2008, 03:24
I can't help but wonder when I'm walking in hunting territory if a hunter spots me wearing my Orange, sets me in his sights, puts some pressure on the trigger and gets his jollies off knowing he can kill me but he simply chooses not to.
Do us a favor.
If you decide to take up hunting, let us all know when and where.
jaywalke
12-29-2008, 11:50
I avoid the woods during rifle season for deer, but the expansion of hunting seasons is worrying. I don't mind giving up a few weeks, but the autumn is my favorite time to hike, and if you add up turkey season (which is growing in popularity and seems to have hunters willing to fire blindly into the brush), muzzleloader season, special doe seasons and winter seasons, it runs from late October through January.
I wear blaze orange, and do my dayhikes only on Sundays, when, thankfully, hunting is not allowed, but I'm not going to stay out of the woods that entire time. I've had some turkey hunters get royally pissed at me for "ruining their day" by daring to walk on the AT on public land, and it is no fun for anyone involved.
Feral Bill
12-29-2008, 16:12
You can't beat the "Don't Shoot I am a hiker" vest that ATC sells. I feel sorry for this kid. He was probably trying to shoot the big one and instead shot a hiker (or so we think). Now, he has a life on his hands. Granted, it was a tragic mistake, but not all of the blame should go on him.
The kid kills someone by not following the most basic hunting safety rules. All the blame does go to him. Prosecution for involuntary mnslaughter is appropriate.
Wise Old Owl
12-31-2008, 00:42
Why don't more companies make/sell backpacks and clothes that are bright orange? It seems like the majority of packs and hiking clothing are earth tones.
I don't want to walk the woods in blaze orange if I can help it, and I am sure the companies that make the gear do surveys to see what folks want.
FYI - Walmart now stocks a disposable blaze orange vest for 75 cents thats an ounce.
Highway Man
01-01-2009, 21:22
One year ago i was doing a day hike about a mile north to Sun Fish Pond. There's no marked trail there near the upper reservoir. I had to bushwhack west to hit AT. It's fun to do it in winter time. When I figured I was near AT, all of sudden, bang, bang, two shots fired towards the woods. Luckily I was low behind a knoll. I quickly took out my red rain jacket, put it on, and shouted out loudly. I was scared. Then I inched my way up to the top and saw two guys walking along AT. Yes, it's easy for them to walk on the trail to shoot into the woods. We never mentioned that incident. I left the area immediately back to Sun Fish Pond.
sheepdog
01-01-2009, 21:33
Ok, so it has been weeks, has anyone found out if they are going to charge this kid or not. The original story is very sketchy. Not enough info to form any kind of opinion on negligence. So any new news?
Highway Man
01-01-2009, 21:42
Not really a new news. Probably some of you have read it last year in the state of Washington during bear hunting season, a female hiker was mistaken as a bear by a teenager when she bent down to tie her shoe laces. She died at the scene about one mile(?) into the woods? i don't know what charges were put on the teenage or his guardian(s).